Crosman 114 – Part 3

by B.B. Pelletier

Well, I’m back, and today I’ll resume testing the Crosman 114, but before I do I must comment on how relaxed I was at this year’s Roanoke show. Taking three days to drive there and three to drive back made all the difference in the world. I got home without being exhausted. Maybe this gallbladder diet is beginning to work its magic.

Part 1
Part 2


Crosman’s 114 is what little boys’ dreams are made of. Read this report to learn just how true that is!

114 Man
I know I told you the story of the man at the show who discovered that he wasn’t alone in owning a Crosman 114. I spoke to him at the Roanoke show, and, if I was persuasive enough, he is now reading this blog. I hope so, because the look in his eye when he discovered the world of airguns was priceless. I’ve been in the same position as he was several times, and I know what a joy it can be to finally connect with the right people over an area of common interest. So, 114 Man, I hope you’re now with us. This is your gun.

I also must comment that I didn’t see a 114 or a 113 at Roanoke this year. There might have been one, or even more than one, but I was looking and didn’t see any.

What do we know about the 114?
We know the gun runs on CO2, and I will tell you now that it has a 22-inch, .22-caliber brass barrel. So, expect 14.3-grain Crosman Premiers to go in the range of 575 f.p.s. to 610 f.p.s., if the rifle has a factory tune. That would be at 70 deg., F. My office temp was 80 degrees when I did the velocity test for you, so I’ll get right to the Premiers.

Premiers
I knew from the first shot that something was wrong with the rifle. There was a tremendous outgassing at the breech every time the rifle fired–something these rifles and pistols never do when they’re working right. The blast of gas told me the gun has a serious leak in the firing system, which was evident in two different ways as I shot the Crosman Premier pellets. First, the average velocity was only 536 f.p.s.–well below what I expected to see. Second, the velocity dropped with almost every shot–something that does not happen with CO2 at 80 degrees. Look at the shot string below:

550
549
550
539
541
534
532
525
525
518

This isn’t typical of a filled CO2 gun that gets 70 shots per fill. Something’s wrong, and the blast of gas coming from around the action is a clear indication that repairs are in order.

RWS Superpoints
I started to shoot a string of RWS Superpoints, but stopped after just four shots. Look at the velocity:

517
509
507
494

If this were a PCP, I would think it had dropped off the power curve, but CO2 guns don’t drop off like this until the end, when their liquid runs out. That should be after at least 50 good shots, if not more. Certainly not after the first five!

So, my 114 needs some attention. Maybe if it were made modular, like the 2260, I might even tackle the repairs myself, but it’s not. It’s all integrated into a whole, so I think I will send it off to a repair station. Only the metal action has to go, so the package can be small and light. I just have to exhaust all the CO2 before I pack it.

I could check accuracy now, but with the wide velocity variation, I don’t think we would be doing the rifle any favors. I know this hasn’t gone the normal way of a blog report, but sometimes this is what happens–especially with vintage airguns. We’ll stay on top of it and see how it comes out on the other side.

58 thoughts on “Crosman 114 – Part 3

  1. I spoke with you at the Roanoke show. I too have a 114 in need of repair and was thinking of doing it myself but if you're a little hesitant then I'm downright scared. You mentioned sending your's to a repair station. Do you mean an authorized Crossman repair station or an individual who is good at Crossman repair? I'd be curious to know since your airgun world is much larger than mine.


  2. I have a short list of repair stations I use. I know all of them and trust their work. For the 114, here is the guy:

    Rick Willnecker in PA. Contact him at http://www.airgunshop.net/ or call 717-382-1481.

    Rick is an authorized Crosman repair station, but he's much more than that. When Crosman stopped repairing these older guns in the 1990s, along with the older Benjamin guns, Rick had each of the special parts manufactured. All of the other repair stations buy their special seal parts from him.

    B.B.


  3. anonymous,

    I've used Rick based on B.B.'s recommendation and have nothing but praise for Mr Willnecker and his work. He's repaired 4 guns for me: 2 CO2's and 2 mutipump PG's.

    Yes if you want your gun fixed, give him a call. He'll do it and do it right at a fair price.

    Mr B.


  4. B.B>:

    Can also recoment Rick Wilnecker. Does great work and a good guy to deal with.

    There were rumors he was going to be at Roanoke ; but I didn't run into him.

    Al


  5. Well, in the words of Popeye The Sailor Man….'well blow me down!!'
    My newly overhauled Crosman Shiloh arrived yesterday. New seals and other bits for $68.
    Loaded her up, not expecting much…it is nearly 30 years old.
    Well, after a few practice shots I reloaded and tried for something 'serious'.
    30 feet, using a 25yd pistol target. Two handed grip, but offhand.
    All 6 shots dead center and could be covered with a quarter.
    Can't be, I thought, so I reloaded and tried again.
    SLIGHTLY TIGHTER!!!!
    I was blown away. Loaded up the Umarex CP99 and got my usual 3" grouping at the same distance.
    Only thing I can figure is the longer barrel (about 7" vs 3") and sight radius.
    But it seems to be darn fine shooter, as well as a classic looking pellet gun.
    CowBoyStar Dad



  6. Kevin,

    This leak is between the firing valve and the barrel. There is a small separate transfer port there, or at least there is supposed to be. This one is either broken or missing.

    But it's also a good chance for Rick to replace all the other seals, so I have a 100 percent gun again. He can clean the wire mesh intake filter and generally make the gun good for the next 20-30 years.

    B.B.



  7. Hey, bb, I'd love to do a blog on the Shiloh.
    I'll try and figure out what I have to say that's worthwhile.
    Also…I am definitley more of a pencil guy than a computer person. I actually have my membership in 'The Lead Pencil Club' (a humorous book by that name came out 10 or so years ago, along with a website…than only gave a mailing address you could write to…ahhh, I digress).
    Anyhoo…how do I post photos to this blog?



  8. BB,
    Too bad, but its good news in a way — we'll get to see more of the 114.

    PS. I will concede that BP cleanup is the least attractive aspect of it:). However, psychologically, I'm not sure that I would be able to talk myself into a less thorough cleaning even with a 777 system:). Perhaps you'll change my mind.

    CBSDad,
    You could be as popular as Mr. Dressup in Canada when you take all the gold at the Olympics:). Looking forward to the blog on the Shiloh.


  9. B.B.

    I guess the repair of gas guns is a whole different level than spring guns. The Crosman literature says as much.

    Wayne, I can see how the time constraints in Field Target eliminate waiting and watching. You'll just have to go with your indicators. One of Nancy Tompkins other wind indicators in a long bulleted list is (no joke): other competitors stamping their feet and saying inappropriate things.

    So, do you click or holdover? I haven't followed your method in detail, but if you're taping up the sidewheel of your scope that sounds like clicking. Where does the holdover come into play? Both Tompkins and Tubb and apparently the super-elite level put wind corrections on their sights, in Tubb's case down to 1/5 MOA! That's mighty subtle reading of the wind. The both also shade their shots which seems to mean a slight alteration of the sight picture to compensate for wind but not exactly holdover.

    On the other hand, if your method is working, I would stay with it as long as it's getting you results.

    Matt61


  10. BB,
    Is there anything Rick can do about those nasty scratches on the barrel? Or, is that like filling worm holes in antique furniture. It's the worm holes that give it its value.

    -Chuck



  11. Chuck,
    I'm in the other camp. Those scratches look better than a new one to me. Rather than go through a painful ("new car") phase of protecting guns from every scratch or ding, I handle them normally and with proper regard to avoiding damage where it truly matters (the crown, for example), but not with kid gloves. Keeps the heartbreak down, when something naturally happens, such as when my friends very nice hunting rifle ended up under a horse after a 30 ft. fall: the stock broke and had to be replaced, but decades later, he's still bothered by the fact that the stock is not a perfect original:).


  12. BG_Farmer,

    I was reading an article in September's "Fur-Fish-Game" about Extreme Muzzleloading, 200-250 yard deer now in range by Toby Bridges. He gave a short review of the various BP type powders which even I, a non BP person, found interesting. A good comparison about power developed and ease of cleaning. Thought you might enjoy reading it; for example, have you heard of western Powders Blackhorn 209?

    Atlantic Cutlery has been selling Gurkha patch knives made in the 1800's in Nepal at a good price point.


  13. Fred,
    Not sure you're really interested but I found yet another unexpected bonus with the bi-pod on my Disco.

    When shooting off hand you can turn the bi-pod backward and fold the legs toward the trigger. This provides a great lowered hand rest. Using the bi-pod as a hand rest allows you to lock your elbow on your hip and is much more stable.

    This coupled with the added barrel weight makes off hand shooting much easier.

    DB


  14. Mr. B,

    Thanks for the references. I've read a little about Blackhorn 209 and seen the primers, but assumed it was for inlines only. I'll read the article.

    I'll also check out the patch knives; would like to get or make one that's a bit more "fitting". My current one is a swiss army knife knock-off that I got from the dollar store for $1 — don't ask why, as I don't remember why I thought it would be any good (the construction and most of the accessories are really chintzy, compared to my Victorinox:)). The blade did take a nice edge, though and slices through the patch like paper:).


  15. DB,

    I'll keep that in mind. The Disco is a bit lighter than my spring piston rifles and therefore I find it easier to shoot off-hand. Any help I can get is appreciated.

    Fred


  16. hello,everybody…newbie here.i'm hoping someone out there can answer two questions…?I inherited a ted williams co2 .22 match pistol model 126 in what looks to be very good condition.about how much to reseal it?and is it worth repairing?oh yeah,it sais sears on it.thank you for any help in advance. Bill



  17. Bill with the Ted Williams match pistol,

    The second comment from the top from B.B. has Rick Willneckers' contact information. He's the guy and will give you an idea about cost to re-seal your pistol.

    Yes, it's probably worth it to get fixed.

    You need to know the model of the pistol that you have when talking with Rick in ordeer to get a repair estimate. If we knew the model number it would help us help you with value.

    We know your pistol was made for Sears by Crosman since the beginning numbers of your model are 126. After the 126 you should have four more numbers. What are they?

    kevin


  18. Kevin and Ted Williams,

    you may have 5 numbers after that 126.

    A number 126.19141 would be a Crosman Model 166, just as an example (which cross references to a lever action CO2 BB gun). Look for the rest of the numbers and either Kevin or I will let you know what you have and supply you with rough Blue Book value.

    Fred


  19. Thank you both for your help…the number I left off is 1909.I knew it wasn't the year 1909,so I didn't think it was important.Thanks again! Bill


  20. P.S. it leaks slow from around the trigger with a slight hiss you have to listen for…and it cocks to two power levels!I really like the feel of it,and the rifling and crown look perfect.maybe tomorrow I'll shoot it a few times before it leaks down.that would be safe,right? Bill


  21. Bill,

    It's a Crosman Model 150. Look for a rotating adjustable power knob on the rear of the gun.

    The Model 150 was manufactured from 1954-1967. There are more than 20 variations. In average condition, shootable I see these selling for at least $100.00 and your model could be worth significantly more. Do you have the box or any of the original accessories? What type of finish is on the metal?

    kevin


  22. Bill,

    Shooting the gun would more than likely be safe for you but questionable for the gun. It's a good beat that the seals are dried up and you'll be blowing bits of them through the gun.

    Do you have any Crosman pellgunoil? This is a miracle product for CO2 guns that can be purchased from Pyramyd Air and used to try and revive the seals. Use the search box over on the right hand side and type in pellgunoil.

    Great info on how to use it and even substitutes for it if you don't have any. Might try that before sending the pistol off to Rick Willnecker.

    kevin


  23. Kevin,blued steel except trigger housing.brown plastic right hand grip with thumb shelf.the bluing is 90-95%…trigger is brass.the knob on the back has an oil hole at three o'clock.the knob clicks twice when pulled,but free spins when rotated… thanks,Bill


  24. Bill,

    You've come to the right place. There's alot of passionate and experienced Crosman guys, including Fred and B.B., that will hopefully chime in about value. Hopefully our dialogue will provide them with some insight into which variation you have and can put a finer point on value.

    I'd definately get the gun fixed and shoot it. If you don't like it or get tired of it there's lots of places to sell a crosman model 150 pistol that has been recently serviced by Rick Willnecker.

    kevin



  25. Bill,

    I have no idea what is in Gamo Airgun Oil. No one does. The purpose of this oil, according to Gamo, is to lubricate moving gun parts not seals. I've never used the stuff so can't even guess what it is. Because of the age of your gun your seals may be leather and if they are you haven't done any damage. I use 3 in 1 oil on my old leather seals with some neatsfoot oil added.

    Before adding anything else to the inside of your gun let's wait for some other comments from crosman guys.

    kevin



  26. Kevin,

    Whoa, you're a real expert on this Crosman pistol. I'm impressed.

    BG_Farmer, good knife edge? What's your sharpening method? My quest continues to create a shaving edge.

    Matt61



  27. Matt,
    Don't laugh — a file. I think the blade was so thin that it helped a lot, but I filed it off at a much "thinner" angle (may be a problem with durability). Of course, stoning and honing will make it last longer, but I always have the file with me (to adjust my sights) if I need it. Remember its a one dollar knife; I'm not sure I'd do it to the many expensive pocket knives I've managed to lose:).


  28. Bill,

    There are no leather seals in a Crosman 150.

    There are 4 or 5 seals in a 150:

    There's a o-ring seal on the endcap. There's an o-ring seal roughly in the middle of the valve that holds the CO2 pressure in the tube itself. There's a seal on the valve stem and there's a transfer port seal between the top of the valve and the breech. And there might be a seal on the nose of the bolt. The early Crosman Co2 guns that use 12 gram cartridges contain the CO2 in the gas tube itself after piercing. They do not seal the cartridge against the valve face as in the newer 2220 type design.

    Leaking around the trigger is likely the o-ring at valve body midpoint or the valve stem seal. If it's the stem seal, that part will be difficult to fix w/o sending it to a repair station.

    It's not unusual for the valve body o-ring to become brittle with age. I've seen some that you'd swear were black plastic. You should use a special tool to remove the valve body.

    Here's a breakdown of my Crosman 180 rifle. The bolt arrangement is different, but I believe the valve in your 150 is identical–in case you want to see what makes it tick and what might be involved ina repair.

    http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/2009/05/derricks-crosman-180-repair-part-1.html

    http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/2009/05/derricks-crosman-180-repair-part-2.html


  29. Matt61,

    I've been using a ChiefsChoice 120 which will put a shaving edge on in maybe 3-5 minutes.

    I can do a better edge by hand, but it takes 4 or 5 times as long.

    B.B. is using a machine called Warthog Sharp that he highly reccomends.

    Mr B.



  30. Matt61,

    The Spyderco sharpener works well and does serrated edges, too. It's another good tool for the quiver of sharpening tools. It's also hard to beat a medium to fine grit diamond hone followed by a couple passes on a sharpening steel. If you really need it sharp, go to a piece of leather that's got some Simichrome or mother's mag and aluminum polish rubbed into it. At some point though the edge is so well polished it doesn't "feel" sharp, but it will push cut well. Sometimes you need to back off the finish a bit and get some "toothyness" back so the edge grabs the material you're cutting better.

    Thinner blades are much easier to make "razor sharp" as are blades with high grind lines. Downside to those designs would be durability.


  31. Derrick,
    You're right about the "razor sharp" edge — it won't hold up long doing ordinary tasks where the blade hits anything substantial. My "working" knife is relatively dull (blunter angle) compared to a razor, but it stays the same sharpness for a long time.

    I do have to say, though, that the file works fast and leaves plenty of "toothyness":).


  32. BGF,

    Yep, the file works provided it's a very fine cut and the knife steel is relatively low-tech. Many of the new hi-zoot steels are very difficult for the average cat to sharpen w/o resorting to a diamond or ceramic hone. They hold an edge for a long time–if you can establish one…

    I've often used a fine cut mill file on abused edges to establish a new primary angle before moving to a finer hone.


  33. BG_Farmer,

    Thanks for the parlor pistol link. I have tested firearms with primers and pellets in the past and they don't work well. This guy did it right–by using a real airgun barrel.

    B.B.


  34. Ted Williams or Bill with that Sears/Crosman 150 -

    Here's a parts diagram for you straight from the Crosman website:

    http://www.crosman.com/pdf/manuals/crosman/150/C150-EVP.pdf

    This is not a particularly difficult gun to repair but searching for the proper o rings can be a chore. In the past, I've used NAPA, a Yamaha motorcycle shop and Graingers. Depends on how handy you are. Derrick is probably right in that the O ring within the valve chamber is probably little pieces by now (I owned a Benjamin Rocket 22 that was similar to what you have and had that problem). What you can try is putting a drop or two of pellgun oil if you have it or straight 30 wt. motor oil on the end of your CO2 cartridge – this may take the smaller ones, and see how things work. In fact, for all CO2 guns, get into the habit of putting a drop of oil on the end of the CO2 cartridge before inserting into the gun. It keeps the seals soft and lubricated.

    Fred


  35. Kevin,

    Not sure if you remember but I am the guy that was toiling over which springer to buy. I went with the Super Streak. Having received the rifle I must say I am happy (initially) with my choice regardless of country of origin. My questions are these;

    1. Out of the box the gun shoots high and to the right with any ammo. I can correct to within 1" of center with the scope but at that point they are at the end of adjustment. So am I looking at a different mount that can be adjusted?

    2. I gave up on trying to sight in and moved on to just learning to shoot it. Again with 3 diff types of ammo I am finding that I can get decent grouping with a few and then will have a real flyer that could be up to 2-3" of the grouping. So after trying several different holds I realized that the recoil and how I was holding the rifle (bench shooting with a rest) made a considerable diff. If I only held with my trigger hand and shot is very diff from putting my resting hand under the scope with slight pressure. What do you suggest? I've always been a freestanding shooter (hunting), what is the trick to really dialing in with a airgun?

    Again thanks in advance for any help.

    -Schroeder


  36. Schroeder,

    Nice to hear from you again. Use the search engine in this blog to find the artilliary hold method of shooting a springer. It's a way of holding the gun that was developed by our fearless leader–B.B.

    You might be able to get away with shimming your scope's front ring to lower the POI of your gun. Folks use all sorts of material for shimms, Cut up pastic can lids, business cards, etc. I'd also try reversing the rings to see if that makes any differance.

    Mr B.


  37. Schroeder,

    Of course I remember you!

    Congratulations on the Super Streak. I'll try to answer your questions.

    1-Assume that you got the center point scope that came in the "package deal"? If so, this is the same gun that B.B. tested. His scope ran out of range like yours. He suggested B-square adjustable mounts. I can't suggest them but there are many other adjustable mounts as well. Some people shim scopes using pieces of film or plastic bottles but I'm not a fan of shimming. Some people have had great luck with using epoxy putty and it acts like a shim around the entire perimeter of the scope within the rings. Never tried that. I'm a big fan of good adjustable mounts.

    2-Learning how your springer wants to be held and what ammo it wants to be fed is a learning curve and in my opinion part of the fun of owning springers. Your buddies super streak may want to be held completely different than yours and want a different pellet than yours. Have you shot with the opens sights? You may want to do that. Takes the scope out of the equation. If it's still "throwing a flyer" (a pellet that is way outside of your group) then you know it's not your scope but your hold and pellet selection that needs more work.

    B.B. found that the super streak he tested liked to be held on the back of his fingers under the cocking slot on the forearm. The super streak he tested also grouped best using jsb exacts. Is that one of the pellets you're testing?

    You may want to re-read his 3 part test. Lots of good info there:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/12/benjamin-sheridan-super-streak-part-3.html

    Keep us informed in the comments under the most recent article that B.B. has written. Lot of airgunners there more knowledgable than me. Here's a link that will always take you to his most recent article:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/

    Hope to see you there!

    kevin


  38. Mr B.

    Thank you for the information. When you say shim the scope, am I cutting shim and placing it below the scope in the bottom of the ring?

    I apologize – having been a "plinker" for the past 25+ years I have found a new love of shooting with this so I have a billion questions but will try to limit and prioritized them.

    Can you recommend an ammo? I have at this point shot JSB Diabolo Exact Jumbo Express and Predator .22 Cal, 16.0 Grains. I also bought a tin of Beeman Kodiak Double Gold .22 Cal, 21.14 Grains but haven't shot them for two reasons. 1. I've come across blogs that say they don't shoot well and 2. because I've been told shooting a pellet of that weight could shorten the life of your rifle and/or damage it… What do the pros (ie you guys) recommend?

    Thanks,

    -Schroeder


  39. -Schroeder,

    Sorry for misspelling your name in my previous post. I've had real success shooting JSB
    Diabolo Exact Jumbos and Crosman Premier's in the cardboard box.

    I don't know if shooting the heavier pellets will hurt a springer or not. However, the springer's usually do their best with the mid weight pellets.

    Yes put the shimms under the scope.

    Kevin, though, also has a good idea, i.e., using a good ajustable mount–pricy, but they sure do work well.

    Mr B.





  40. i have a model 114 and i no longer can charge it the gas goes out the safety hole at the side is this fixable buy me our must i send to a repair station





  41. I see this is from 2009. Wondering if you ever resolved the issue with your 114?

    I have had one since I was a kid. 20 years ago I sent it off to have seals replaced and when it came back, the velocity was pathetic. Maybe 500fps if that. I know for a fact tey will shoot well over 700fps and higher than that with a hammer modifcation.

    So… I recently sent it to another repair service (not the fellow in PA), and they replaced the seals again, and it still shoots around 500fps after they messed with it for 10 hrs. Really? How complicated are these airguns?

    My initial thoughts being some problem with the hammer, or weak hammer spriing. I've been told that was all gone through.

    So that leaves one thing: The ball on the bolt not seating in the chamber; worn, which looks like an easy fix by cleaning it up and shimming it a few thousandths forward on the back end.

    This gun has had a billion pellets through it and it would make sense the bolt/chamber is worn. Likewise it would seem like somethig easy to test for… by simply firing it with a pellet and holding a lit match or bic lighter close to the chamber and see if there is any measurable blowback…

    Anyway. Curious about the diagnosis and fix. I am getting the gun back, new seals and pathetic velocity which was why I sent it in, in the first place. Whomever has workied on this gun aparently isn't all that up to speed on 114s. I'll likely end up figuring it out and repairing it myself.


  42. Hi,

    I monitor all the comments for this blog back to 2005, so I saw yours. Yes, a 114 can be tricky, and I think you may have hit on what is wrong with yours. So many repair sops are just parts replacement centers. They really don't understand what makes these guns tick.

    The guy in PA would probably have gotten it right, but who knows. Maybe you will have to take matters into your own hands, as you suggest.

    B.B.


  43. Anonymous,

    If you'd like to see the latest blog entries, come on over to http://www.PyramydAir.com/blog. You're welcome to ask off-topic questions. You'll also meet lots of other airgunners, including some very handy guys who may help you figure out how to properly fix your gun.


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