Micro Desert Eagle concealed carry gun – Part 2

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1


Micro Desert Eagle is an all-metal, pocket-sized .380 ACP.

Today, I’ll show you how my Micro Desert Eagle performs on the range. In Part one of this report, I outlined all the other concealed carry guns I had looked at and even tested before settling on this one. Of course, I hadn’t tested everything on the market, but I had tested a lot of guns that people consider good carry guns.

Most were too large, and that includes an S&W model 37 Airweight snubnose in .38 Special. It also stung like a cracked bat hitting a fastball. I needed something extremely reliable, accurate and with adequate power.

So, I bought a Micro Desert Eagle in .380 ACP. Yes, it’s weak, but so is a 9x19mm Luger round in one of these pocket automatics. My rationale is that a gun I will carry all the time is better than a more powerful one I’ll leave at home. I’m not a cop. I don’t have to carry a gun. I do so by choice, and I choose to carry one that’s comfortable.

Someone asked me about carrying a .25 ACP. There are certainly a large number of them that are even smaller and lighter than this Micro Desert Eagle. I had a Colt that was beautifully small. But the state of Texas has a law that your carry gun has to be larger than .25 ACP. I agree with that law, because a .25 pocket automatic hasn’t even got the same power as a .22 short fired from a rifle. I once owned a .25 Baby Bernadelli auto that was curiously accurate beyond belief. It could hold a one-inch group at 10 meters, as long as the miniscule front sight was visible to the shooter, which it wasn’t in most light. But that gun, as small and accurate as it was, would not be appropriate for concealed carry, even if it was legal.

I took the Micro Desert Eagle to the range to shoot some targets at representative ranges, so those who are interested could evaluate the performance. I also took a Ruger Blackhawk chambered in 9x19mm Luger as a test standard. You can compare my shooting with that gun to the results of the Micro.

I started with what I had in my pocket. The gun I had been carrying every day since the last time I was at the range in early December. No attempt was made to clean the bore of lint or debris. That was the gun as it comes to the fight, loaded with seven Winchester white box .380 ACP rounds–a 95-grain full metal jacket slug of medium velocity. I had hoped to recover most of the brass on this public indoor range, but the Micro threw each case violently to the right, where the lane divider kicked it forward out of my reach.

The first six shots were taken at a silhouette target positioned at seven yards, which is 21 feet. Five were good and one was way off to the left, meaning I pulled the trigger too hard, which moved the gun off target. I reloaded and fired five more to the same point of aim. You can see the results. I’m shooting with silver sights front and rear, which are the absolute worst for accuracy and I still kept 10 of 11 rounds in a five-inch circle. Naturally this was all one-handed with no brace–the way I would shoot in a defensive situation. The center of the target was the aim point, so the gun hits about 3 inches high at 20 feet. I’ll accept that.


Eleven rounds, 10 inside a 5-inch circle. Not bad!

Next, I put up a bullseye target at 21 feet and loaded six defense hollowpoints that advertise reduced recoil. Of course, with a .380 there isn’t much recoil to begin with, so these rounds are positively a delight to shoot. They shot to almost the same point of aim, but this time they stayed in a 2.25-inch group, despite the almost impossible sights. In fact, a word needs to be said about those sights, because they really are difficult to see. I believe the Micro is as natural-pointing a handgun as I could hope for, because I sure wasn’t getting any help from those bright sights. My Baby Bernadelli was a natural shooter, the Micro is a natural pointer–along the lines of a Luger, only better.


Six shots in 2.25 inches at 21 feet. Not bad for a pocket gun.

Next, I shot seven FMJs at the same kind of target at 21 feet. The group opened up just a bit, and shifted slightly to the left.


Seven FMJs were a little larger, but still just over 3 inches at 21 feet.

The control
I had a Ruger Blackhawk convertible along as a control gun. It has a cylinder for .357 Magnum and a second one for 9x19mm Luger rounds. Using the Luger cylinder, I loaded 6 Winchester 115-grain FMJ rounds and proceeded to unload them into a target at 15 yards, or 45 feet. They grouped okay, I suppose, but the light right over my position was reflecting off the ramped front blade and I was losing it on target.


Six shots from a 9×19 Ruger Blackhawk at 15 yards. Okay, but not great

Next, I moved the target out to 20 yards and paid more attention to the front sight. This time the group was more acceptable. And with the little 9mm Luger round, the Blackhawk barely moved in recoil with each shot. It’s a wonderful practice round, because it just doesn’t move the gun that far.


Six more 9mm rounds from the Ruger at 20 yards. This is good performance and shows a marked improvement over the concealed carry gun at three times the distance. All shots were fired with a one-hand unsupported hold.

Just for comparison, I will also show the 50-shot target I fired for my concealed carry lisence. That was shot with a Wilson Combat CQB Light Rail at 3, 7 and 15 yards in slow, timed and rapid fire scenarios. Edith calls it my Blue Man group, and I’m proud of it.


This is my qualifying target from a concealed carry course. I shot the Wilson CQB. There are 50 rounds in the target from 3, 7 and 15 yards. Edith calls this the Blue Man group. She qualified with the same gun.

My opinion
I’m very satisfied with the performance of the Micro Desert Eagle. Not only is it sized right for concealed carry, it’s also accurate. Now that the factory has fixed the feed problem, it’s reliable as well. This is a true DAO gun–unlike so many that only allow one pull of the trigger. If those guns don’t go off with the first trigger-pull, the slide has to be racked before another shot can be fired. I don’t want that in a defense handgun, so I’m recommending this one to everyone I know.

139 Responses to “Micro Desert Eagle concealed carry gun – Part 2”

  • Anonymous Says:

    My favorite carry guns were an old Colt Detective special .38 or a Ruger Blackhawk .357 with a 4 3/4 in. barrel. Loved 'em both. 6 for sure. Never trusted an auto enough to stake my life on it.

  • Vince Says:

    "This is a true DAO gun–unlike so many that only allow one pull of the trigger. If those guns don't go off with the first trigger-pull, the slide has to be racked before another shot can be fired."

    If the gun doesn't go off first time around and you pull the hammer again, isn't it just going to peg the same cartridge again – with the probability of another misfire? Don't you want to rack the slide to get another round in the chamber regardless?

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Vince,

    You have stated the argument of the companies whose guns have strikers and not hammers like the Micro Desert Eagle. Here at the SHOT Show I'm seeing the reactions of people who discover what I said about second-shot capability, and they run overwhelmingly in favor of the gun that keeps on firing with each pull of the trigger.

    But the reality is, with today's primers, a second blow isn't adding much reliability overall. So you are essentially correct, even though Luddites like myself still want the function.

    I also compared the size of the Micro against the Walther PPK and the Micro comes out the clear winner. Much smaller, in fact.

    B.B.

  • J-F Says:

    How is the shotshow ?
    Any interesting stuff coming our way ?
    I can't wait for the report on the marauder pistol.

  • Edith Gaylord Says:

    J-F,

    I just spoke to Tom, and the show is fantastic…as usual. Monday's blog will be the first part of Tom's report about the show.

    Edith

  • woguph Says:

    The latest American Rifleman which I got two days ago has a review of 8 or 10 compact 380s. It was interesting to see them reviewed together. They did mention failures to load or eject in almost all of them. It may have been that the guns needed to be broken it first.

    I used to carry a 380 DAO Backup. It was a good little gun.

    David Enoch

  • FRED Says:

    This is a response to "anonymous"'s advice from yesterdays comments section on the fruitlessness (is that a word even?) of trying to use a Disco in FT.

    You're absolutely right. However, unlike Wacky Wayne, I don't have unlimited funds to get every rifle and gun I'd like so another pursuit for me is shortcuts. I guess I'll put the Nitro on the back burner and perhaps next year or even this year for my 60th, I'll get a Challenger. Hey Frank B., you have a Challenger you'd like to get rid of?

    Believe me when I say for me to be moderately competitive would be great considering my eyesight and shooting skills. To be world class? I have a better chance of getting struck in the a@#$ by lightning :)

    Fred PRoNJ

    wv: nodiersi (no desire? Horsehockey)

  • Frank B Says:

    Fred,I absolutely love having you on the blog.Whoever climbed all over your butt yesterday had me biting my tongue…and cussing.How will field target grow with attitudes like that?I wish I had a challenger for you buddy!Field target for fun,who ever heard of such a thing,LOTS of people…who won't be dismissed in so many keystrokes!Keep at it,and keep your a@#$ grounded,just in case :}

  • FRED Says:

    Hey Frank,

    you didn't work for Martin Marietta, did you?

    Fred PRoNJ

    wv – you're not going to believe this: stalower

  • Edith Gaylord Says:

    How can the average shooter compete with guns that cost thousands if you don't have that kind of disposable cash? I guess you don't compete. You shoot for the camaraderie, the experience, the knowledge you get from others and the pure joy you receive from shooting at teeny little targets.

    Edith

  • derrick38 Says:

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  • derrick38 Says:

    I deleted my above comment. I re-read the anonymous post from yesterday and didn't think it was intended to be mean-spirited at all. I think he meant competing at the highest level of the field target sport with a Discovery would be fruitless.

    Of course, simply having a "superior" anything doesn't automatically make up for lack of practice and hard work.

    Used to see guys with box stock Ruger MK 2's outshoot guys with S&W 41's, High Standards and the occasional Pardini every week in bullseye pistol league. But that was a local fun match and those stock Rugers were–and are–inadequate for high level competition.

    But then again, Don Nygord won the California State 10 meter air pistol match with a Daisy 717 that cost about $50 at the time.

  • Wayne Says:

    Edith,

    Well said!

    Fred,
    The disco is fine to get started in field target. A guy showed up from Calif. at our Oregon state match. He had a disco in .22 cal! It was his first match and he got about 50% of the targets! Folks with guns 5 times as expensive and more experience.. didn't do as well!

    He had loads of fun and got hooked on the game… His disco will always be great for other things as he can afford to move up in the game… or it can be sold for close to what he paid.

    I really can't think of a better gun for the money than a disco. I think that it could compete head to head with a HW77 or TX200 springers, unless in the best of hands.

    just do it!!

    Wacky Wayne, MD. Ashland Air Rifle Range

  • Wayne Says:

    Ok folks…

    With your suggestions… I placed myself in the USFTAirgun-addiction-center last night..

    They make you sleep with the ugly things.. knee stands poking you in the back.. scope side wheels between your knees … laying in a bed of pellets.. big ugly men with 12 day beards come in every hour and and shoot groups over the bed with loud PCPs..

    I woke up refreshed and sat outside the door in the snow waiting for the brown truck with USFT#6..

    …I think I need a few more weeks in treatment..

    Hey Tom And Edith.. do you want to sell your USFT??

    Wacky Wayne, MD. Ashland Air Rifle Range

  • blowgunner62 Says:

    Nice report, Tom. Did you see the ".380 Wars" article in American Rifleman? They didn't seem to like the Micro Desert Eagle as much as you did.

  • FRED Says:

    Derrick38, I, too, didn't take the comment as mean spirited – I accepted it in the manner it was intended. that is, if you don't have the right tool for the job, it makes things that much more difficult.

    I have heard the same thing about a competitor using a Daisy pistol and cleaning everyone's clock down in the Pennsy 10M pistol competitions.

    You know, Edith, shooting at tiny targets and doing it well while using an inexpensive gun, really is the way to go. You don't need that USFT rifle. Perhaps you should sell it to me instead of Wayne :)

    Fred PRoNJ

  • mechredd Says:

    If you really like pocket pistols, you should look at the XR9 from Boberg Engineering. It uses a different operating system that allows a 9mm pistol to be smaller than a PPK, yet still use the barrel of a full size pistol.

  • Volvo Says:

    Diversity training.

    I have found out recently that some very affordable springers are every bit as accurate as their pricey cousins and with a little lube and moly feel as if they had a high-priced tune. With my current collect that is about 10% of the value I had before, I would not feel handicapped taking on anyone in real world scenarios.

    Ask over on the yellow forum about using a Disco for FT, I believe a guy from WV has won a matches with a .177 Disco?

    Wayne,
    Are you still shooting the S410 at all? I would hate to think your former love sits in a dark corner now.

    Derrick38,
    What did you want me to check out this weekend?

    Blowgunner,
    Do you have a web link? I am looking for more info on the Ruger .380.

  • Wayne Says:

    Volvo,

    I was shooting my AAs410 just the other day.. Damn starlings are around again stealing nests from the acorn woodpeckers.. they don't last long with the quiet killer in the shadows…

    I also agree that some low cost springers can equal the high priced dudes.. or close anyway… Mendoza comes to mind.

    Wacky Wayne, MD. Ashland Air Rifle Range

  • CJr Says:

    BB,
    I'm concerned about the burr in the mag release catch problem you had. Do you know of others who had this problem? If I buy one is there a chance I may have to send mine back? Was there a mention of this being fixed in all future guns? If so, how can I identify the pre-fix guns?

    -Chuck

  • Edith Gaylord Says:

    CJr,

    If there was a problem across the board, I seriously doubt the mfr would divulge that info. I think the reason Tom hasn't mentioned that it's a bigger problem is that he didn't find anything online from others who bought the gun. Probably because it's relatively new & they haven't sold that many, yet.

    On the other hand, the Glock I use for my carry gun had a LOT of info online about the KABOOM problem. We should have spec'd the gun before buying it. We ended up fixing it with a replacement barrel. Now, no more chance of KABOOM. Naturally, Glock blames reloaded ammo, however the KABOOM happens also without mfr ammo. So, it's a bigger problem than they're willing to admit.

    Edith

  • Mr B. Says:

    Fred,

    I like your offer to buy Edith's and Tom's USFT rifle. Maybe you should also include the caveat that you'd be sure to keep the gun out of the hands of any USFT addict. I know she wouldn't want either of you good folks to be labled as an enabler.

    Mr B.

  • Edith Gaylord Says:

    Mr B.,

    There you go! That's a large part of why we won't sell our USFT to Wayne or anyone else who is a hoarder of USFT guns. In fact, we can't trust anyone at this point. What if someone else buys it, but it's a straw purchase? Can't take that chance. It'll just have to stay here with us :-)

    Edith

  • CJr Says:

    Edith,
    Thanks for the reply. It sounds like the the catch problem showed up right away so that one could get it fixed before a critical situation. Is this so? I'd hate to have a good range session and think everything was alright then eat lead in critical contest.
    -Chuck

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB, if you get a chance, try the Speer Gold Dot Ammo. I performs well in jell tests. As long as it feeds well in your gun it's a good one.

    Mike

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    First Wayne.
    Then Frank B.
    Now Fred too?

    What does Tim make these things out of? Opium?

    I'm going to steer clear of the USFT, I can't afford to get addicted to the hard stuff.

  • Edith Gaylord Says:

    CJr,

    Yes, the problem showed up on his first trip to the range. Several more range trips validated that there was a problem that needed to be fixed.

    Edith

  • Wayne Says:

    HHHMMMM…..

    this is gonna be tougher than I thought..

    Wacky Wayne…
    I need agents.. undercover agents…

  • Volvo Says:

    I would like to buy the USFT. Do not worry, I will not sell to honorable Mr. Wayne for big profit.

    Mr. Subaru.

  • Volvo Says:

    Crap. Sorry Wayne, I put Volvo in by force of habit…..

  • Edith Gaylord Says:

    Volvo/Subaru,

    You made me howl with laughter. Thanks!

    Edith

  • Anonymous Says:

    B.B.

    Maybe a short history of the .25 caliber would be interesting at some point. Why invent such a caliber? I believe it featured in the case of Joey Buttafuoco (got to love that name) and his girlfriend the Long Island Lolita. The girlfriend attempted to assassinate Buttafuoco's wife by meeting her at the door of the house then shooting her twice in the back of the head with a .25 caliber when she turned around. The wife thought she had a headache coming on, so she went to lie down. She didn't even know she had been shot. The wounds, however, did do some permanent, disfiguring damage to her facial nerves. One of the enduring scenes of the trial was her mouthing "I love you. I love you." to her husband! I think I've heard other stories about the ineffectiveness of the .25 caliber.

    How about the micro Desert Eagle. I only know that brand name from the very large caliber pistol. Looks like they've mastered the very small as well.

    Edith, I'd say that the reliability reputation of the Glocks has taken a major hit. Who cares if they can be dropped out of airplanes or buried in mud if they blow up not only with reloads but with manufactured ammo as well.

    Frank B. That USFT sounds pretty cool. What price are they running at these days? I bet I would have a similar reaction if I tried a FWB 603.

    Joe B. on Maui, yes, I knew that the key on the 1077 works by pushing and not twisting. I pushed with might and main to no effect. But here was the critical breakthrough. The key, as you know, has three prongs arranged in a triangular fashion that fit into matching holes in the lock. I had supposed that each orientation of the key was equivalent as long as the key fit the holes, so I kept trying the key one way. But just as I had given up and was ready to box up the rifle, for no particular reason, I tried the key in a new orientation and it unlocked. That lock went sailing into the trash seconds later. Anyway, that's an idea if someone has run out of other options for a bad Crosman trigger lock.

    Here's a small but persistently annoying problem for you technical wizards. The scope cap on my Leapers 4X32 scope has a pin that the cap rotates around, and this pin likes to drift out. There's no way that I can see to secure the pin in place without restricting the movement of the lens cap which is what the pin is for in the first place. My current solution is just to keep pushing the pin in place. Otherwise, I suppose I could just take the lens cap off….

    Matt61

  • Anonymous Says:

    OT…way OT.
    I've been looking for a compass recently. Although GPS is great, I want to teach my sons how to navigate in the wilderness without batteries.
    From my old days I have a Brunton Pocket Transit, 3/4 lb precision compass that also measures elevation. It is still used by artillery divisions to compute the angle needed for artillery fire.
    But it isn't something you throw in the daypack!!
    So…the point of all this. In my search for a new compass I was directed to the Cammenga line, which supplies the U.S. Military. They're a bit pricey, but I ordered one last week and it is a piece to be proud of.
    Great 'made in the USA' workmanship, tritium points for night use and good to -50.
    Can't recommend it enough.
    CowBoyStar Dad

    wv 'angman'…gee, I'm not angry at all today.

  • pcp4me Says:

    Ok,

    I am the anonymous guy who posted to Fred yesterday. I was anon because my internet blog thingy glitches every so often and won't let me post any other way.

    And no, I did not mean to be mean spirited nor "jump all over anyone's b$%^"

    I was simply stating IF you want to be competitive then…..

    If you simply want to shoot for shooting sake and the "fun" of it, then there are many guns you could use.

    But keep in mind my perspective. I am a very competitive person and would not be happy shooting 50% of my targets. Considering when I was younger and shot a LOT (thousands) of squirrels at ranges from 5 yards to 75+ yards and rarely missed one I consider FT to be akin to squirrel hunting and would in no way be happy with 50% hits. Not even 80%.

    That does not mean I bought the most expensive gun available either. When I was able and shooting all types of competition, I bought good but inexpensive guns and did my own work to accurize them.

    My bowling pin and combat and falling plates gun was a reworked stainless amt hardballer I paid $200 for. I installed a match bushing by hand fitting it, and modified the extractor for reliability. I also did a trigger job and had the trigger breaking at 2.5 # and absolutely no creep or overtravel. I also added millet sights and the gun would ransom rest 1" groups at 25 yards and I had less than $275 in it! Hell I had more in the ransom rest and inserts than the gun.

    My other competition gun was a Dan Wesson 715V stainless with 4,6 and 8" barrels. It also got a trigger job with a 1.5 # SA and 6 # DA pull and no creep or overtravel. It also got millet sights and Pachmeyer rubber grips and I had less than $275 in it! This gun would ransom rest .5 – .75" groups at 25 yards with custom hand loads. My competitors at matches would laugh at me when I pulled these guns out to compete. Many of them had $3000 – $4000 custom guns. But they stopped laughing when they got beat! And the few I did not beat didn't win because they had better equipment. They won because they were better than me!

    My squirrel gun was a scoped Ruger 10/22 that I glass bedded the action and did a trigger job. Broke cleanly with no creep or over travel at 2#. Rested it would shoot .5" groups at 50 yds. The cost with the Tasco 3 X 9 X 40 scope was probably less than $175 25 to 35 years ago. Including the glass bedding kit and the stones used to do the trigger job.

    If I wanted to shoot FT today I would call on my Beeman R9 with my 4X – 16X X 50 mm ao scope. Not inexpensive but no where near as expensive as what Wacky Wayne uses. And it can shoot better than I can now.

    Unfortunately, I am disabled now and no longer able to squirrel hunt or shoot FT. I might could do FT if there was no time limit and I loaded up on the painkillers and could assume the sitting positions needed. But that would be a stretch so I will leave it to the younger crowd.

    I still go to the range regularly to shoot and I can still out shoot 95% of the people at the public ranges.

    Finally, I own a .22 cal Disco. It is a fine gun. But I also own the Beeman R9 and if I could shoot FT it would be my choice over the Disco. Simply because it is a tack drive with a MUCH better trigger than the Disco.

    Folks I will let you in on a little secret if you want to shoot competitively. The trigger is 95% of everything assuming you have a gun capable of good accuracy. If you want to do your best, it MUST break cleanly with NO creep or over travel. You MUST know without a doubt where it will break each time! Then and only then can you practice to learn the trigger control you need to win matches.

    I have worked on my Disco trigger, but without investing an inordinate amount of time and perhaps money I cannot get all the creep out of it nor can I get it down to less than about 3 #. It is fine for the plinking and occasional squirrel shot out my back window, but I would never use it in competition.

  • derrick38 Says:

    Volvo,

    Got a cool NOS rifle last week. The first part of the tear down will go up on the blog. It's right up your alley.

    Glock Problems:
    If you haven't read the Kb report at the following web site you might want to read it.
    http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/setback.html

    In short, there seems to be some evidence that continued loading and unloading of the top round in the magazine could be the culprit as this tends to seat the bullet deeper into the casing each time it is chambered. Similar incidents happened in the 1960's and 70's with custom built 1911 45's.

  • Volvo Says:

    Matt61,

    My solution for those frustrating little plastic trigger locks has long been needle nose pliers.

    How do you like the 1077? This is a stretch, but I had always thought of the Ruger 10/22 as sort of a copy of the 30 cal carbine, so that makes my 1077W a copy of that little carbine also. I am having a blast with mine. I picked up an extra magazine and a pack of 3 clips from PA I like it so much. I would never put a scope on it, because as an open sighted plinker it rules.

    Only difficulty is keeping from blasting stuff in my basement I shouldn’t.

  • Edith Gaylord Says:

    Matt61,

    It's not all Glocks. Just a few models in a few calibers. Mine's a model 36 in .45; the .40 cal. doesn't have the KABOOM problem.

    Edith

  • derrick38 Says:

    PCP,

    Dead on the money about the trigger. A better trigger is THE single biggest reason to get a "better" gun.

  • Volvo Says:

    PCP for me,

    Have to agree on the trigger part. The Rekords are a no brainer with some work, and many others can be made decent. My two biggest disappointments in triggers were on the FWB 124, because I had read all the hype and a BSA Lightning. The FWB just never felt right and the BSA went bang when it wasn’t supposed to. Derrick38 can verify the .25 cal hole in a lamp shade. Biggest surprise is the T0-1 trigger on the RWS which is nice with just a little moly.

    Maybe I missed this, but what PCP do you shoot now?

  • derrick38 Says:

    OK one more: There's a trigger tune tutorial for the Crosman 2260. It also applies to the Benjamin Discovery as they share the exact same trigger components.

    http://www.spiralsol.com/airgunmod/tipstricks.asp
    Download the 2260 trigger tune.

    If you really want to go nuts, there is also an after market metal trigger blade available for the gun here:

    http://www.tko22.com/

    Your discovery trigger won't have anymore excuses.

    I've got NO affiliation with either of the above web sites.

  • derrick38 Says:

    Volvo does indeed seem to see any and all inanimate objects in the house as potential airgun targets. He's also right about the FWB 124 trigger–mine is also second or third rate compared to a Rekord trigger.

  • Frank B Says:

    PCP4ME,I didn't mean to judge your response…Fred is my friend,and I understand a budget…My main point is that You begin field target by trying it on whatever scale…I've never shot a Disco but Field Targets have different kill zones and the "game",because it is after all a game,can be enjoyed by a lot more than just the winner.You made many perfectly valid points,I just knew Fred's intent wasn't world domination:]

  • Wayne Says:

    PCP4me

    Of course your right about the trigger being 90% of a winning gun… if decent accuracy is there in the barrel and breech seals etc..

    And the disco is too light to settle in for me…
    but, a retired guy with time and little money could have tons of fun, and surprise a bunch of folks with a little tinkering..

    It's the possibility of that win with a very entry level gun… that would keep a bunch of folks practicing hard and long, which is the really good thing!

    Your opinions are right on, for anyone who has a little more cash to work with and less tinker time.

    next step might be a marauder.. but I'd hope to hop to..

    .. the Air Arms S400 single shot in 12fpe or the adjustable power side lever..
    or better still the adjustable stock and slightly better trigger AA400 MPRFT 12fpe

    PS..

    about the guns you shoot and the guns you collect..
    as one moves through the process of experiencing different guns.. one finds an area that they like a little more than the others.

    Field Target bit my butt.

    but about half way into my collecting… so now my focus has changed to special field target guns that I ..or we, at the club can compete with and hold or gain in value….

    so.. my secret force of agents..

    this is your mission…. should boldly go where no agent has ever gone before…

    ..seek and DO NOT destroy.. a very special USFT..

    Our search begins in a state with an "x" in the name.. that's all I can say now..

    ..the big ugly guys are strapping me to the bed of pellets for a session..

    Wacky Wayne, MD. Ashland Air Rifle Range

  • Edith Gaylord Says:

    Yes, Wayne…a state with an "x"…. Send them to New Mexico :-)

    Edith

  • Wayne Says:

    Damn Edith,

    you figured me out again…

    regroup agents..

    first thing is to get the WII and stop that boxing practice..

    Wacky Wayne

  • Anonymous Says:

    I like a good trigger as much as the next. But I should pass on David Tubb's comment that with time you can adapt yourself to practically any trigger. Of course for competition, perhaps you don't want to wait so long.

    Volvo, I love the 1077. My dirty secret is that even with open sights and the mediocre trigger that rifle is about as accurate offhand at 5 yards at my IZH 61 and B30, and I love the semiauto feature. The gun is fantastic. I know that the 1077 is a copy of the 10/22. I hadn't thought about the connection to an M1 carbine. I suppose it's there but it doesn't extend beyond the general concept of a quick-handling carbine style rifle; I don't see any other connection between the looks or action.

    But I do think that a light, quick-handling rifle is an important category. Snap-shooting is a favorite activity and, in my mind, it can approximate trap shooting which looks like great fun but which I don't expect to ever have the facilities for.

    Matt61

  • Bud Says:

    Sorry to be off topic and a newbie, but does anyone(or everyone!) know why springers are not alowed in ten metre compitition? Thanks!

    Bud

  • Anonymous Says:

    Springers are not disallowed in 10m competition. It's just that they don't have the ability to be as consistently accurate as a PCP, which had virtually…no, the best have NO recoil.
    You could compete on a casual level with a springer…but in reality you probably couldn't make it past the first qualifying round in an ISSF sanctioned event.
    CowBoyStar Dad

  • Volvo Says:

    Matt61,
    I think the Ruger 10/22 and M1 carbine comparison come from the sharing of a carbine frame and the front barrel band. Yes, it is a huge stretch of the imagination on the 1077, but the walnut stock and my declining vision help. My earliest Ruger experience was with their semi-auto .22 pistol, which resembled a luger. So I also had a military brain connection with Ruger, once again, with a healthy dose of imagination.

    If you have a Beeman Pell –seat the ball end works great for making sure the pellets are evenly seated. I fill up the magazines all ahead of time so I know when the CO2 needs changed. I was surprised it only takes one CO2 cartridge instead of two like the 160, or its clone. Also, it doesn’t use the tube as a storage area, which seems like a missed opportunity, but it’s definitely a blast.

    Even over 40 feet it is plenty accurate, a may buy an extra as a back-up.

  • Bud Says:

    CBSD,
    Thanks. Thats kinda what I thought. There is the artilary hold though. If it`s acurate the bronco might be the best springer for a cheap way to get into the sport. I guss there is no way to compete with the 853 for the price and acuracy. Oh well.

    Bud
    WV-goodyer(I certainly hope so!)

  • Anonymous Says:

    Bud, for the money you would probably be better off with the Daisy 953 Target Pro. At under $75 on Pyramyd's sight it is a steal. Basically an 853 with plastic stock and without the Lothar Walther barrel (but the barrel is good in its own right).
    I have the 853c and a Slavia 630. The 630 is a very gentle shooting springer that is know for its accuracy.
    But good as it is, in informal competition (20 consecutive shots in a standing position) a good day would be 180 with the Slavia (out of 200 pts).
    On the same day I would expect a 192 or better from the 853c.
    The 853 Target Pro would be much closer to the Avanti than the Slavia.
    CowBoyStar Dad

  • Bud Says:

    CBSD,
    LOL! I defenaitly agree. Actualy I own a 953:). Yeah, its realy good for the mony you pay.(at least at PA) I think it`s more like a 853cm w/o the barrel. If I got a sling and target sights from daisy or PA I`d have a nice inexpensive setup for 10m.

  • Mr B. Says:

    Folks,

    I've reposted Mike's comments here for a response or two from you all.

    mike has left a new comment on your post "Daisy wire-stock first BB gun – Parts 2 & 3":

    Hi BB, I have 4 air guns now. All the way from my old Sheridan to an RWS 34 .177. I going to get a 22. I think the marauder is probably the best choice but I'm not wild about the hand pump or the scuba tank idea. With that said trying to decide on either the TX 200 mk3, RWS 54, RWS 460 or even the RWS 350. My guess is you'll say the tx200 is the best choice? Mike

    Mr B.

  • kevin Says:

    Mike,

    Welcome!

    Quite a collection you've got there.

    You've narrowed your list down to some real quality guns. What do you intend to use this next gun for primarily?

    kevin

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    Mike

    You have great taste in airguns.

    I would guess that you want a .22 for a little more knock-down power?

    BB is likely to tell you that the powerband is better in the .177 version of the TX200. I have one, in that caliber, and it is pure joy to shoot. It is beautiful, and accurate.

    If you its power you want, the RWS Diana rifles you mentioned are all about perfect and would have similar power to each other. Want a rifle with little or no recoil? Get the sidelever 54. Don't mind a healthy kick from your gun? The 350 and 460 are perfectly suited. Go with the 350 if you want an easy loadin' breakbarrel. The 460 has the underlever if that's what floats your boat. The 48/52 are also excellent.

  • FRED Says:

    PCP4Me,

    let me re-state what I said earlier, I took NO offense at your comment. It was well stated and logical in pointing out not to do things half way if you want to be serious. Thanks for that.

    Wayne,

    dag nab it, Edith is on to us! Edith, I wouldn't sell the FT to Wayne….right away, that is. Volvo used my next gambit so now I'm forced to go deep cover.

    To think this whole thing started with the idea of swapping barrels on the Discovery. This was almost like the motorcycle blog I used to follow when someone raised the question of what was the best motor oil to use. That one lasted for a week!

    Hey, it's the weekend and all I have to do if fix the house humidifier.

    Fred PRoNJ

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    Mike

    Earlier I stated that all the Diana rifles you mentioned had similar power. That isn't true. What I meant is that they all have plenty of power. The magnums shoot at higher velocities, about 100 fps faster according to PA's numbers.

    WV: disesse. Yes airgunning is like a disease.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    blowgunner62,

    No, I didn't see that show. I wish I had.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    mechredd,

    I wish I had know about the XR9 before now. I would have looked them up at the SHOT Show.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Mike,

    Thanks for the ammo tip. I'll look for Speer Gold Dot ammo next time I get to the gun store.

    B.B.

  • AteamRay Says:

    Hi Tom;
    I am a Keltec Fan myself. Have the P3AT when I want to carry and will be picking up a PF9 which is the thinnist 9mm and Lightest I believe. It took me years before I settled on the P3AT and if I had to do it again but NOW would probably go with the ruger LCP that wasn't available back when I got the P3AT. The P3AT did take about 100 rounds to break in but is now totally reliable if not LIMP WRISTED. It is Snappy and a bit punishing to shoot but for carrying concealed is simply the best in my opinion for me. Hopefully the PF9 will be as good. Did alot of research and the really light guns can be made to fail by limp wristing. Can't shoot them like a P1 or 45 for Bullsie. Tight Grip and locked wrist and no Problem. Even Laurie manages the P3AT but she can't rack the slide on my Glock at all. For her we went Taurus PT111 Milenium Pro which she loves. Thinking of a light weight 38 special for her for carry though. Any who, good read. Thanks Tom.

    AteamRAY

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Ray,

    I tried the Kel Tek, but mine was too unreliable. Actually it w3as Edith's, and she had difficulty racking gthe slide. Instead of sending it back for repairs, I traded it and got the Micro.

    I saw the PF9 at the SHOT Show day before yesterday. Their .380 is slimmer than the Micro by a hair, but the 9mm is considerably larger.

    I also saw a Baby Browning yesterday and the guy who makes them tells me about a .25 ACP round that develops 1,600 f.p.s. in that tiny gun! Gets 125 foot-pounds, which is incredible for a .25. I made arrangements to get a Colt 1903 .25, though it isn't legal for carry in Texas. I just was to have one and it seemed like a nice one.

    B.B.

  • FRED Says:

    Mike,

    I also own the RWS 350 and the 52. The 350 is by far a more difficult rifle to shoot accurately due to the recoil, artillery hold or not. I have gotten better results with my 52 (it's a sidelever vs the breakbarrel of the 350). I'm fortunate in that the 52 I found has a T01 trigger which can be adjusted for 1st stage travel and leftoff. The T05 is a single screw adjustment which adjusts the 1st stage and leftoff weight of the trigger at the same time. It's not a bad trigger to my little experience, but the T-01 and the trigger on the Discovery with Mike T's adjustment kit, are superior. The latter is a $14 kit that allows you to add three adjustment screws to the trigger to adjust first stage, trigger letoff and travel after letoff, well worth it in my experience.

    Fred PRoNJ

  • Anonymous Says:

    Volvo & Matt61,

    Crosman 1077 w/wood stock? looking on PA's site and can't find one. Do they still make it? Due to your mentioning the 1077 I got to looking at it and darned if the thing didn't bite me!! Got one on order!

    dsw

  • Anonymous Says:

    I own both the MCDE and the LCP. I have fired the LCP a little and just got the MCDE a couple of weeks ago and haven't fired that yet. I have them both loaded with MagSafe super swat, yealding 342 fpe at 1700 plus fps.
    I must say I like the sight picture better on the LCP for whatever that is worth on these point and shoot types.
    The MCDE is noticeably heavier than the LCP, but I sort of expected that with something from Magnum Research. In a carry situation the weight might be a factor.
    Rich

  • CJr Says:

    I'm referring this comment to the current post for Jeff and I'll direct him here for any answers. It was originally on the "Daisy Powerline 953 Targetpro – Part 4"

    "B.B.,

    I love my Daisy 953. Purchased it about 6-7 months ago, thanks to your previous recommendations and review/testing in parts 1-3.

    I'm just getting back into the sport and having a great time while introducing my son to it – he's hooked too! Great bonding time for this 40 something dad and his 13 year old son.

    The 953 sights seemed to be set OK out of the box at a 10m distance. Somewhere around the first tin of 500 pellets, it (or I) started shooting low. I'm not sure if it is just ME getting used to the fiber optic sights or if the barrel could need cleaning, but I raised the rear sight and it still is shooting low… I am primarily using Daisy Precision Max pellets (not sure if these cause more lead debris than other pellets…) I have used the pelgun oil a few times (1-2 drops each time)just wanting to make sure I have a good seal. Could I have oiled it too much? If the barrel does needs cleaning, what is the best way to clean it without damaging the rifling?

    By the way – I loved the Bronco review. That may have to be my first springer (or maybe I should wait until the "father" gun is available??)

    Thanks for all you do.

    Jeff"

  • Jeff290 Says:

    CJr,

    Thank you for taking care of that. I'm still learning :)

    Jeff

  • Anonymous Says:

    Well, my B30 is being its rambunctious self. The other night the dial for adjusting the elevation of the rear sight came off in my hand after virtually no usage at all. Underneath was a regular phillips screw that does the work, so everything is still functional.

    B.B. do you shoot defensively with one hand as well as for competition? That sounds kind of old school although it obviously works. In addition to the revolver wizards of the early 20th century, I was reading W.E. Fairbairn's instructions on snap shooting with one hand. He obviously knew what he was doing and practicing his methods with my Walther CPSport is one of my greatest joys. Still the current rage seems to be all two handed.

    Chuck, I believe that Bronco is for you. Give it a try and tell us about it.

    dsw, I seem to recall having seen a wood-stocked 1077 at some point but haven't looked in awhile. I have no problem generally with synthetic stocks or with the one on the 1077 in particular. Once you get past the stupid key lock, you'll love the gun. Remember to try different positions with the key if you run into trouble. Also don't be put off by the heavy, creepy trigger. Once you get a feel for prepping it, which is not hard to do, it has astonishingly little effect on accuracy.

    Wayne, if it rains in Oregon as much as it's been doing in California, that must really cut into your shooting time.

    Matt61

  • Joe K 3006-springfield@msn.com Says:

    Good comments re the .380. Wonder if anyone has compared these new oferings with the older Walthers or even the 1903 Colt?

    On another subject: I used to shoot a lot of high power, Trap and Pistol, but after a few rounds of heart attacks and strokes found that being able to position shoot is virtually impossible. I picked up my old RWS and then a new Brit Rifle, but found that cocking it to be a real chore and loading that .177 in the bottom of the breech is almost a thankless task. I am considering getting a CO2, .177 repeater pistol which is accurate and has a decent trigger and reliable……Is there such an animal out there. Tom, since you just ventured through the shot show, and I trust your judgment, do you have any suggestions.????

    col

  • CJr Says:

    Matt61,
    I'm considering it, however, I am planing to waste as much of month of February underwater. Think palm trees, 85 degree surface and 80 degree water temps. When I get back home (Lord knows why) I'll see how the reviews have gone. I will try to stay in touch through any available wifi connection.

    Dang if the WV isn't hydrodst

    -Chuck

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    DSW,

    The 1077 walnut has been discontinued for several years. You can still find them on the airgun classified sites, if you have to have one.

    But the rifle is still a great buy. I think you'll like yours.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Jeff,

    I don't know why your 953 would be shooting lower. You could clean the barrel, but that model rarely gets dirty, so I don't think it will help.

    How recently did you oil the pump head? That will cause lower velocity if left undone.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Matt,

    When I grew up in the 1950s and '60s, it was called a HANDgun, not a HANDSgun. One hand is all it takes.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Joe,

    The Drulov DU-10 is the best .177 pistol that meets your requirements. After that comes the Desert Eagle from Magnum Research.

    The new Benjamin Marauder will shoot rings around either of these guns, if it's long-range accuracy and a great trigger than you want. I can't tell from what you said whether you want an action pistol or a real long-range hunter. The Drulov is for action, the Marauder is for serious shooting.

    B.B.

  • kevin Says:

    B.B.,

    Since you just brought up the new Benjamin Marauder pistol for "long-range accuracy and a great trigger" I hope you can clear up some confusion for me.

    In the new Crosman catalogue it says the Marauder pistol will have the same great trigger as the rifle but the picture of the Marauder pistol seems to show a 22xx type trigger.

    If you saw one at the SHOT show could you clarify what trigger will be in the new Marauder pistol? If it's not the marauder trigger in their new pistol this is a deal breaker for me and I'm going to cancel my order.

    kevin

  • Alan Says:

    B.B.,

    I noticed that too on the Marauder and Silhouette, and also that the pistol grips (and thus grip angle) look to be the same as the 22XX/13XX.

    I remember from your review of the 1377 that you felt the grip angle was wrong for serious target shooting, and as I have a 1322 I agree. Just wondering if these are the same and what your thoughts are if they are the same.

    I had been aspiring to a IZH-46M, but would consider the Silhouette as an American made alternative if even close in capability.

    Alan

  • Mr B. Says:

    Wayne,

    I was reading this month's "Shooting Times" and came across an article that I think you might find interesting about a scope made called the Premier Heritage. One thing that caught my eye was the 100% accuracy of the scope's adjustments, got me thinking about all you clickers. Also that custom recticles are available. Let us know what you think, when you get a chance. We all know the web that you're currently weaving is keeping you rather busy.

    Mr B.

  • Volvo Says:

    DSW,

    Still some new 1077W's out there, but not fair to point them out.

    Maybe google could help. Mine was brand new in the box with a graet Walnut stock.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Thanks guys for the help on the wood stocked 1077. It's not that big of a deal to me, the price is a steal and if this is the little shooter it sounds like it will get banged around a bit, so the composite stock will work out. I will keep an eye out for a wood stock because it's always good to have two of the same only different guns (huh?)! I'm tired of multi pumping for 'round the house plinkin.

    I bought a Ruger 1022 in Dec. and have been havin a great time with it. I can't believe I waited so long to discover this cool little .22. I had to wait 44 days to take possesion a couple weeks ago ( bought it in L.A. on consignment) and managed to get over 4000 rounds during the wait!!!

    Now if I can somehow attach a hotlips loader directly to the rifle and attach the whole ammo box….

    dsw

  • Volvo Says:

    dsw,
    Jungle clip those Ruger Mags.

    Kevin,

    Pictures yesterday on the yellow of the new MROD pistols

  • Volvo Says:

    Kevin,

    look here

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1264215757/SHOT+Show

    I'm sure Tom will have some pictures for us too.

  • kevin Says:

    Volvo,

    Thanks. Missed that.

    BKL sure had a good display. Do they really have that many mounts or are they reproducing for the display????

    Evanix had several introductions I was reading about. The windy city and the ??air tunnel??. The windy city looks like a bottle gun designed to compete with rapids, the new royale, etc. I'm not a bottle guy so I've glossed over this hype.

    Cometa looks like a force to be reckoned with. I'm keeping a close eye on these folks and have high expectations.

    I think the main reason for your link was the marauder pistol. I'm depressed since I don't think that trigger could possibly be the trigger in the marauder rifle. Why would Crosman say the marauder rifle trigger will be in the pistol and then put that trigger in?

    My order was for 3 pistols and I think I'm going to pull the plug.

    kevin

  • Anonymous Says:

    Volvo,

    Jungle clip??

    dsw

  • ajvenom Says:

    As for hobbies…they should be judged on the amount of time you spend on them, not on the money you've spent.

    I've spent a lot of time recently shooting my crosman p30 stinger airsoft pistol. I put paper plates, bottom side out, on my gel dartboard and use a marker to make small target dots. I shoot indoors at 5 meters away for practice.

    The Crosman .12g 6mm airsoft ammo is cheap. I tried some .20g TSD competition grade ammo and had some good luck. I was hitting half inch ctc 5 round groupings and made nice ragged and easy to see holes in the paper plates.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Kevin and Alan,

    The new Marauder pistol trigger is very similar to the trigger that's in the Marauder rifle, but Crosman engineers refined it a bit more. The one thing I like is they added a positive adjustable trigger stop. I also believe the adjustability of pull weight in stage two was made more precise.

    Perhaps the confusion is the fact that the trigger in the new Silhouette PCP single-shot pistol IS the standard 22XX trigger. However, even there things have been improved, because Crosman engineers had to change the grip frame a bit to accommodate the higher pressure reservoir (3000 psi). So, while they did that they also changed the standard trigger just a mite, making it feel a bit more refined, and that change will ripple through the 22XX line of pistols.

    Now don't hold me to this, but I think Ed Schultz, the Crosman head engineer, also told me that the Silhouette PCP will be able to accept the new trigger pac for the Marauder pistol as an upgrade. I will have to sort that out as I test the gun, which should be available in the next few months. Look for the Marauder pistol closer to mid-year.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Voilvo,

    I'm still in Vegas as I write this, but the first installment of the SHOT Show report will be tomorrow's blog. In the past I rushed to get the word out, but was often putting out speculation instead of fact.

    For example, for three days during the show, Crosman folks were telling me that the Benjamin Super Streak was coming out in .22 caliber. Only on the last day did I discover that the Super Streak will be superceded by the Benjamin Trail, which gets a Nitro Piston. So I would have said the wrong thing because the Crosman people had been using familiar but incorrect terminology throughout the show.

    So, there will be a new .25 caliber breakbarrel from Crosman, and it will be called the Benjamin Trail with Nitro Piston. The Benjamin Super Streak with steel spring will be phased out.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Kevin,

    I guess I need to do a BKL update. They will have all or most of the mounts seen in the chart they displayed at the SHOT Show, plus there will be other new products that don't appear on that chart. They have been quietly ramping up production of all the old BKL models as they added production capacity to their plant.

    A new CNC center will allow them to make gun frames on one dedicated machine and turn the two existing CNC centers over to smaller parts. One of them will be quite busy with the BKL line.

    The new Edge is being received so well by the airgun community that it is straining the current production capacity of AirForce to keep up with orders, and the new CNC center was an absolute necessity. But other lines, like all of BKL, will benefit from the arrival of the new center as well.

    Eventually they will be able to shut down much of the older dedicated machining centers that now make most BKL parts, as the new CNC centers take over production.

    The older machines are the largest machines in their plant, and getting them off the floor will free up space for newer, faster machining capacity.

    There is now a 35 mm scope tube on the market, so all mount manufacturers will have to ramp up to produce mounts for it. Imagine adding one-third more products to the BKL chart you saw!

    And, yes, before you ask, I will be telling you about that new scope in a later SHOT Show report.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Well, it looks as if the Marauder Pistol is the one I have been looking for. Just looking at it, it appears to be ballanced a bit forward. Is this so? I actually got the Marauder rifle and am well pleased with it. I don't think I'll be able to go back to a springer, or even a single shot. Now, the pistol is really not much less than the rifle. So, I'll probably just wait to see what else comes out. I like the quietness and the great trigger in my rifle. If the pistol is near that, it will be a sweet shooting pistol. But it is so *long*.
    Michael in Georgia

  • Frank B Says:

    BB,I hope you had a good time in Vegas…can't wait for your reports!Seems like another banner year for this sport.I won't ask any questions,but you didn't say don't speculate….the Heritage premier that Mr.B mentioned has a 34mm tube from what reading i've done,but at 2-3,000$ I doubt that's it! call me anxious!Did you WIN anything? wv=ORWAT!

  • kevin Says:

    B.B.,

    Thanks for tolerating and addressing my impatience. With all the leaks about the exciting new products introduced at the shot show I'm biting my tongue so hard it hurts.

    Frank B,

    I think he's referring to the new leapers 35mm scope. Should be affordable?

    kevin

  • Frank B Says:

    Kevin,if it's affordable it should be great.35mm tube size brings alot to the table…greater durability,greater light transmission,more range of windage and elevation,greater scope to ring grip{surface area],better light transmission out of the same lens….and a bigger exit pupil at high magnification!have I missed any?

  • Scott Says:

    B.B.
    Hope you had a good time at the SHOT show. From what I know about it it sounds like heaven on earth.

    I was hoping to get your opinion on something I have been thinking about purchasing. After getting back into shooting again I am really enjoying shooting my P1 and was thinking of getting a more dedicated target pistol. I am a left handed pistol shooter so I know that limits my choices. I would like the option of mounting a scope but this is not essential. I have a red dot on my P1 that I am using for a silhouette league and could continue using the P1 but would like the option of a scope if I need to get rid of the P1 to purchase the new pistol.

    My first thought was an IZH46m. I know it is right hand only but I looked at a friends and I think I can make a left grip pretty easily.

    Next I was looking at the Air Arms Alfa. It's ambi' and could be easily customized to my hand. I read some comments on target talk and they just completely ripped it apart. I don't think anybody actually shot the thing or if they did didn't spend the time with it that you did.

    Last I was talking to someone about the AA Alfa and told them that I was getting back into rimfire bullseye shooting. They sugested a Drulov DU10 and said a lot of guys use it for timed/rapid fire practice. I like the idea of five shots but don't want to give up trigger or accuracy for it. Also, would I be able to use the DU10 in our local matches or are repeaters not allowed. I made a call about it and can order lefty with aa two week wait.

    I am open to other suggestions as well. Sure I'd like to get a Steyr LP50 but $2500.00 is a lot more than I want to spend.

    thanks
    Scott

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    Frank B

    How about the ability to focus at very short distances, and capacity for even more magnification?

    Hope you and #92 are having fun.

  • Mr B. Says:

    Matt61,

    I think it was you who asked a question about flip up scope caps and their retaining pin falling out, if it wasn't you I hope the guy who asked the question sees this answer.

    I walked into my local mom and pop hardware store, a gentleman said, "Can I help you sir?" "Yes" I replied and proceeded to show him my problem.

    I left the store with the correct size nut and bolt to replace the loose, wanting to fall out and launch a LITTLE spring which takes 1/2 day, if lucky, to find.

    Just love my non big box hardware store. It's Bill's Hardware in Hyattsville, MD. Did you ever shop there B.B.?

    Mr B.

    Anthony, word verification is tropec.

  • Frank B Says:

    SlingingLead,I knew that wasn't everything……pre-coffee I got a few.the USFT #92 is…..well..a USFT!!!!!Big grin:} I recieved my benchrest parts….no idea how they go on!?Gotta call Tim monday.

  • Frank B Says:

    SlingingLead,I knew that wasn't everything……pre-coffee I got a few.the USFT #92 is…..well..a USFT!!!!!Big grin:} I recieved my benchrest parts….no idea how they go on!?Gotta call Tim monday.

  • Frank B Says:

    SlingingLead,I knew that wasn't everything……pre-coffee I got a few.the USFT #92 is…..well..a USFT!!!!!Big grin:} I recieved my benchrest parts….no idea how they go on!?Gotta call Tim monday.

  • Frank B Says:

    Triple? wv said I was wrong each time! Sorry,guys

  • Volvo Says:

    Derrick,

    Cruel and unusually punishment showing me that HW35, I had ordered a Nickel and walnut 35 that was a special order, and ended up being delayed for months last year. I eventually canceled the order with the blessing of the vendor and bought the old Walther LG 55 instead. Meantime the 35 comes in and gets sold to some lucky guy that posts it on the yellow. Looked like a $1000 piece of walnut……. You can verify that with Kevin.

    Volvo

  • Volvo Says:

    DSW,

    “Jungle Clipping” is not needed unless the “Dawn of the Dead” becomes reality and zombies are all over, which I will be ready for. : ) Normally you would just take two of the 25 round magazines and secure them together in the middle with the ends opposing. Could be accomplished with actual clips that hold them together or just black electrical tape.
    The link below shows two factory mags end to end instead as they are not long enough for side by side.
    http://www.brasscatchers.com/pics/710.jpg

  • Volvo Says:

    Frank B,
    You seem excited! Congratulations on the USFT, just watch for Wayne in the trees around your house. : )

  • ajvenom Says:

    I bought a $1000.00 piece of walnut….it sits in my dining room.

  • FRED Says:

    Some very nice airguns coming down the road for us to spend more money on. I went to Crosmans' site last night (after coming home from watching Avatar – great movie – the Indians beat the Cowboys) and perused the catalog. Highly recommended.

    ONe question for the list – is the fellow in the last picture that Volvo gave us a link to on Network 54

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1264215757/SHOT+Show

    I believe his name is Bruce Dodson from the caption? Is he missing his index finger or is that pose he is giving the camera on purpose?

    Fred PRoNJ

  • Scott298 Says:

    B.B.–Scott298. When you were unable to heip me with my trigger problem 2 readers both jumped in. Fred and Vince both supplied me with helpful advice and Vince sent me pictures of how to take apart the trigger. Using the pictures I took the trigger apart and put it together again. I have it working perfectly and today I was able to once again shoot groups of 5 shots at 25 yards that could be covered by a nickle! Thanks guy's!

  • Anonymous Says:

    That thing will get you killed in a shoot-out situation. I wonder if you ever been involved in one..?

  • CJr Says:

    Hmmmm…why would a new Leapers have to have a 35mm tube…IS THERE SOMETHING IN IT????????? Say it's so Joe…er, BB.
    -Chuck

  • Paul Says:

    B.B.

    Thanks for the suggestion that I use BKL rings on my RM600, but it may be too late—I already ordered the Accushot one piece rings from Pyramid. In case they don't work, I noticed that the BKL rings have 2 styles—with one screw or two on the base clamp. I presume you ment the 2 screw base for more clamping pressure? Correct? Would a little locktite on the dovetail improve the one piece munt performance?

  • Mr B. Says:

    Paul,

    I've had good results using locktite in that application. Just be sure and do a good degreasing/cleaning.

    Mr B.

  • Mr B. Says:

    Frank B,

    It's nice to see how excited you are about your new gun. Stuttering while talking about it.:)

    Can you describe its trigger to us. Maybe there is a way you can compair to somthing that we can relate to?

    Thanks,
    Mr B.

  • Frank B Says:

    Mr B,take an ordinary ping pong ball and place it on your keyboard in between two keys.now with your index finger,slowly move it horizontally over the key!you just touched off a shot!

  • Frank B Says:

    wv=disoil as in the first time I shot the USFT, boy DISOIL myself!!!!

  • Jedster Says:

    Greetings All,

    this is my first time here, and also my first time using a blog. I hope I do this right.

    I would appreciate some expert opinions on three air rifles I just purchased for my son and I. We are brand new to air rifles, and don't want to invest too much in case it doesn't last long. The three we purchased were the Crosman Pumpmaster 760, Daisy PowerLine 880, and the AccuAir Force 1100. Each was under $50, so our investment is not too large at this point.

    Here are my questions:

    1. Up to what range is the Daisy PL 880 good for squirrels? My son is very excited to shoot his first squirrel. My guess, based on fps would be no further than about 25-30 yards, but I don't have the experience to know.
    2. Is the PumpMaster 760 powerful enough for squirrels? My gut says no, but again, I don't have enough experience to know.
    3. I love the feel of the AccuAir 1100, but for some reason it is not nearly as accurate as the other two when shooting at paper tagets from the same range. Any thoughts on this? I'm using the exact same ammo in all three rifles, but the Daisy and the Crosman we can group within a three inch target. The AccuAir has a few shots within the target and many that are up, down, left, and right.

    Thanks in advance for any and all help you can provide. If anyone is so inclined, you can email me help at ftdolansky@bellsouth.net

    Thanks to all,

    Frank

  • derrick38 Says:

    Volvo,

    I SAW that piece of HW lumber you're referring to on the Yellow Forum. One of the most beautiful Weihrauchs I've ever seen. –Sorry, not trying to rub it in. That must have seriously been a kick to the gut. You have my deepest condolences.

  • Joe 3006-springfield@msn.com Says:

    To Tom / AKA BB Pell…..
    Thanks for advice re either the Ben Marauder Pistol or Drulov DU-10. I am looking for a CO-2 powered rather than a PC unit. According to Pyramid the Drulov is discontinued…..so I think I am still looking for what may not be there. I am vary used to a 1911 but with recent health issues am looking for something I can actually use easily.

    By the way, those of you who are just getting into the 10-22's….you are in for a treat. You may notice the front sight is too low for you and may want to change it though. I have three of the models that Bill Ruger himself cancelled as the stocks were too costly to manufacture. They are older than most of you. They have combs and are well done. Insure that the barrels are properly torqued into the dovetail mount underneath and the wood pad just rests the front of the barrel and you can get great out of the box accuracy. Today there are more accessories than will fill a Brownell's catalogue though, so don't go crazy…. Thanks again for the info blog.

  • derrick38 Says:

    Frank,

    Take a look at this as far as shooting that 1100:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/07/artillery-hold.html

    See if that helps your grouping with the AccuAir.

  • Frank B Says:

    To whomever might know,one of my guns is from HW's takeover of BSF,the Marksman Model 70.Would the stock inletting be the same as a BSF 70,if the endcap,and presumably the main tube are BSF…??Endcap bears BSF logo.

  • Jedster Says:

    To All,

    Thanks a ton for the responses. It is MUCH appreciated.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Volvo,

    Yeah, I understand jungling clips, just had a brain fart there laughing at the ONE 10 rounder tat I have! California… I'm going to need to 'look around and find those 25rd mags that I bought before the ban'!

    I just got back from my "range" about an hour ago. shot another couple hundred rounds off, 10 at a time. Lots of work there! I was going to get that 1077 tomorrow, but I think I will use the money to buy, er, uh, find my old 25 round mags. to much time loading!

    dsw

  • Jeff290 Says:

    "Jeff,

    I don't know why your 953 would be shooting lower. You could clean the barrel, but that model rarely gets dirty, so I don't think it will help.

    How recently did you oil the pump head? That will cause lower velocity if left undone.

    B.B."

    Thanks, I'll try using more oil to see if that helps.

    Jeff

  • FRED Says:

    Frank,

    typically hunting vermin calls for a .22 cal rifle. It delivers more energy than a .177 cal rifle. The first two rifles you mentioned, the Daisy 880 and the Pumpmaster 760 appear to be .177 or BB rifles. They are more for plinking and target shooting. Neither are intended for taking vermin. I'm sorry but I'm not familiar with the Accuair.

    I would suggest keeping those rifles and annihilating those tin cans and other Daisy targets like their shatter blast or even paintballs. If you and your son have your heart set on hunting, look on the Pyramyd Air site for .22 cal rifles for hunting.

    To keep your price low, check out something like the Crosman Quest 800X.I would also recommend you use the search box located just to the right of the current days' blog for youth hunting rifles or just hunting rifles.

    Welcome to the blog, Frank. Hope you stick around.

    Fred

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    Jedster / Frank

    You mentioned that you were using the same ammo in each of your rifles, but did not mention what ammo that was. Even though BBs are so much easier to load, I would not use them in the 880, as the steel will compromise the rifling in the barrel. Buy small tins of a variety of cheap pellets (Crosman premiers are good, Daisy pellets not so much) and see which works best. The pumpmaster is a smoothbore so use BBs if you like. I'm sorry I don't know what a Accuair 1100 is.

    Your range for taking out squirrels of 30 yards with the 880 is correct, just give it the full 10 pumps. My neighbor has many documented kills at this range with the same rifle. Also make sure you are practiced enough to hit what you are shooting at accurately (head shot). You don't want to wound the poor thing and have it crawl away to die slowly. The 760, well I would advise against it. The pumpmaster isn't likely to be accurate enough at that yardage.

    I admire you picking up the shooting sports to share with your son. The blend of disciplines necessary should be a learning experience for you both. Please come back to the blog to share your experiences and questions. Sorry, today's kind of slow.

    BTW If you find yourselves liking this new hobby of yours, and are looking to 'move on up', for your boy, the new Bronco from Air Venturi looks very promising. For papa the Avenger 1100 is an excellent value, also from Air Venturi. They are wood and metal guns, and are a good measure better than what you have so far.

    How old is your son?

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    Volvo

    Thanks for that video the other day. That was awesome. Sometimes I think YouTube is the cultural equivalent of Jerry Springer, but then you can watch gems like this.

    Did you get your W from Europe? The only new ones I can find are 'over there.' They are also more than twice what PA wants for the black stock and thats before shipping. I appreciate you wanting to protect your sources, but I have been training with Wayne's secret agents and we have ways of making you talk.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Volvo,

    I forgot to mention that I have a surprise for the Zombies come the day. It doesn't include air power or rim fires!:)

    Joe 3006,

    I know what you mean about the accessories for the 1022. It's one of the reasons why I said earlier that I can't believe I have passed over this gun. Nothin but fun and more fun. I doubt you have a Ruger 1022 older than me though!:)

    dsw

  • Anonymous Says:

    Mr. B

    Yes, it was me asking about the loose pin. I don't understand the solution. Is it a pin with nuts screwed onto each end?

    Fred, I saw Avatar last night myself. It was very enjoyable although I hate to root against the Marines. Maybe those were contractors in the gunships. Anyway, the hero is a Marine. Afterwards, I was at a burger place and watched a group of students on study abroad from a developing country come in to place their orders. So, our capitalistic, industrialized society does have something to offer too. :-)

    Matt61

  • Anonymous Says:

    Here you go Fred,

    WV: frednpa (couldn't resist sharing) :)

    dsw

  • Volvo Says:

    DSW – they use to sell a little trigger helper for the 10/22 that basically made it full auto. (then the FBI saw their ad :(

    Those will really burn through the ammo. I would guess my 10/22 first was acquired around 1973.

    You need to still get the 1077.

    Slinging Lead,

    Alzheimer’s must be setting in; I don’t recall posting a YouTube link recently? Anyway, I picked my 1077W up off of GB $75.00. There is a retail store that somehow gets a good bit of new old stock, plus as a bonus they have no clue about air rifles. They had an R-7 for around $185.00 in .20 cal about six weeks ago. Why wasn’t it snapped up? They spelled Beeman “Beman” plus instead of R7 they used the order code number, so no normal search would turn it up. They still have a HW97K for $506.00, but that is not such a sweet deal.

    As far as the 1077W and I am not hiding my sources, just not fair to PA to mention. Ok, I may want to also buy them out….

  • CJr Says:

    Jedster,
    Slinging Lead's first sentence may be a major contributor to the 1100's larger groups. I don't know what distance your shooting but I know from experience at 10 yards the same pellet does not shoot the same in different rifles. You'll have to experiment with different types of pellets to find the best for yours. There's a good chance you might even improve on those other 3" groups, too. If the 1100 is a springer learning the artillery hold will also be a major contributor to taming large groups.

    -Chuck

  • Anthony Says:

    Wayne, Derrick, and all,

    I know I am late to the Disco-4-FT topic. But that came to my mind:
    Yesterday I went to my local range to another shooting session. Unfortunately, an awesome wind didn't let me do good shootin' with my s410; that forced us to go indoors and shoot 10-meter only.

    I don't want to sound vain. But with a borrowed Avanti 853 I was the 2nd place out of 13 shooters –some of them with Fwb p70!
    That Avanti costed less than $250, and it performed as a five-star gun.
    God bless the other shooters yesterday… they're even worse than me :)

    Anthony

  • kevin Says:

    Anthony,

    Well done! The Avanti has a cult following for a reason.

    Have you tried the jsb 18.1 grain pellets in your S410 in the wind?

    I'm convinced that their performance in wind is not solely attributed to weight.

    kevin

  • Jedman Says:

    Again, appreciate the advice many have given. In answer to Leadslingers questions, my son is 15. I thought to myself, "he does way too much video gaming on the PlayStation. We need to be doing something constructive." So I took him to Academy Sports, which is right down the street, and we picked out what looked to us like three nice, but inexpensive air rifles. This way, as I said, if the sport doesn't last long for us we haven't put in too much of an investment.

    So far we are really liking it, and as we get better and better at hitting the paper targets, we're also getting excited about going out into the field and trying our hand at bagging a few squirrels.

    Take care,

    Frank

  • Jedman Says:

    Chuck and others,

    I've heard what you said about different ammunition. I'm not sure why this would be, but decided to try it. I bought Crosman Premiers, Gamo Hunters, and Daisy Precision Max pellets. So far we've only been shooting at 10 yards. We'll stay at this distance until we get good at it.

    Here is what I've found so far: The Gamo Hunters are the least accurate in any of the guns. The Crosman Premiers are the most accurate in the PumpMaster 760 and the Daisy 880. The Daisy Precision Max pellets work best in the AccuAir. The other brands are harder to insert into the AccuAir, but the Daisys fit it just snug.

    I've also started using the artillery hold B.B. wrote about and have already have much better shots. It's still not as accurate as the other two, but getting there. I'm guessing as we continue to practice our aim will get better and better (we've only been shooting a few times so far).

    Thanking each of you and giving God glory,

    Frank (Jedster)

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Frank Jedster,

    Please keep us informed of your progress with the new pellet guns. And the new Bronco was created just for you. Please watch the testing, as it is targeted as the perfect pellet rifle for your son.

    We all want to hear how things progress with the outdoors experience.

    B.B.

  • CJr Says:

    Jedster,
    Welcome to the world of "What pellet works best in an xxx rifle?".

    Now you have only 1,243 more pellet brands to try :-)

    -Chuck

  • Jedman Says:

    Who makes the Bronco you refer to? Is it at Pyramid airguns?

  • Jedman Says:

    CJr,

    LOL!!!

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Jedman,

    The maker is listed at the beginning of the first report.

    B.B.

  • Joe 3006-springfield@msn.com Says:

    To DSW

    sORRY ABOUT DATING YOU WITHE HR 10/22 RUGER. I bought those initial ones in 1964 and they have Walnut, Finger Groove and Monte Carlo Stocks. One even has a Ruger Red Rubber Butt Plate as later showed up on the Ruger Over/Under Shotgun. I read somewhere where Bill Ruger did a cost analysis on that particular stock and the selling price and decided not to offer that kind of stock again. They point naturally and fill the hand well for everything from plinking cans to dropping jumping squirrels. My eyes wer better in those days but now those rifles hve scopes on them as "cheaters".

    Joe 3006-springfield@msn.com

  • Anthony Says:

    Kevin,

    I just met a guy who has JSB Exacts, but I think they're 16 grs.

    I will look for the Jumbo Heavy (18gr) They're pretty scarce out here.

    I have shot with Crosman Premiers only, but they're not bad…

    Cheers,
    Anthony

  • kevin Says:

    Anthony,

    IF you're in the USA Pyramyd Air has them in stock and no one packages pellets better than they do. They also have a buy 3 and get 4th free pellet deal.

    http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/JSB_Diabolo_Exact_Jumbo_Heavy_22_Cal_18_1_Grains_Domed_250ct/691

    kevin

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