Drop coin into slot: The Challenger–an airgun that paid off the Depression!

by B.B. Pelletier

Announcement: Tom/B.B. had a slight relapse early Sunday morning. He’s back in the hospital due to a minor complication called a pancreatic pseudocyst. It’s an accumulation of pancreatic fluid that’s not draining. They’re monitoring things, relieving pain and waiting for the fluid to drain on its own (which it’s expected to do). It was the pain that was our biggest concern. Once the pain was gone, all Tom wanted to talk about was airguns and the blog. Stuff happens.

This changes B.B.’s plans to attend the Little Rock airgun show. However, I hope those who attend will send us lots of pictures; maybe we can put them together for a guest blog and show everyone else what they missed!

Now, on to today’s blog. While this is a reprint from an article that appeared in Airgun Revue #2, Tom has been wanting to run this article since March! I thought this was as good a time as any. Enjoy!


Called a countertop trade stimulator, the Challenger was one of many small shooting galleries that accepted pennies.

In the 1930s, the world was in the middle of a hard depression, which many people were not prepared to weather. Lifestyles of the Roaring ’20s had to be revamped to survival in the ’30s. For store owners, the pinch of tight money was particularly defeating because money is the lifeblood of trade.

Not that there wasn’t money enough to go around. There was plenty of money. People were just reluctant to spend much of what they had for fear they wouldn’t be able to get more. This fear paralyzed trade at the grassroots level, which, in turn, ruined the entire economy.

Trade stimulators had been around since the 1890s, but the need for them was never so keen as during The Great Depression. Only organized crime was able to generate a reliable income with their numbers rackets, which resembled the state lotteries of today but on a smaller scale. For a store owner to be a numbers agent, there had to be ties to the mob, which dictated the rules and the shares of the take just as states do today. Enter trade stimulators–devices that made all their money on the premises and could be owned entirely by the store. No waiting for the daily payoff announcement from the mob (or the state lottery commission).


Here’s the payoff. Nine scoring balls relate to the nine disks inside the game.

The “DROP COIN into slot” trade stimulators are a family of seemingly innocuous games that sat on countertops all over the country. For a penny, a person got 10 chances to do something. In the case of the machine shown here, it was to hit nine different paddles, which were scored by steel balls showing in the window at the top. Other machines had different games, but the object remained the same–10 chances to do something for a penny.


The coin goes in the slot on the gun’s right side; then, the lever on the side is depressed to start the game.

Now, suppose the store owner told you that if you got all nine paddles in a single try, he would give you $100. Pretty good play for a penny, huh? Of course you’re no dope, so you figure the game is gaffed–which it is. The No. 3 paddle on this one isn’t connected to the scoring mechanism! You can hit the paddle all you want, that ball isn’t going anywhere. But the store owner takes care of that, too. He pays a shill a sawbuck to run out of the store screaming that he won the prize! You run in with your friends and, sure enough, all the balls are showing. He really did it, you think. Heck, you’re a 13-year-old-kid. What do you know about life? So, the word goes out throughout the neighborhood and soon there’s a line in front of the machine–lots of kids and a few gullible adults, too.


This is what you saw when you played the game. Notice that there is no way to use the sights with the gun passing through the case.

Folks, the play on this little machine isn’t that easy to begin with. The steel balls are launched by a spring-loaded plunger inside the metal gun, which is attached to the front of the box. Sometimes, the balls come out at the full 50 feet per second and are fairly accurate; other times, they just dribble out. And the gun’s sights are completely useless because you can’t see through the wooden box. This is an instinctive thing, not a marksmanship game.

The store owner can, therefore, offer lesser prizes for a run of eight paddles, with little risk of losing. Say a pack of cheap smokes–just the thing to attract 13-year-olds. Since these prizes are possible, there will be a constant, if infrequent, run of legitimate winners to keep the momentum going. Sooner or later, some wiseguy is going to catch on to the gaffed paddle, so the owner changes it periodically. And the law never wises up–because, as you can clearly see, there’s nothing written about any of this anywhere on the game. Even if a grifter tries to cheat the play, the owner simply clears the scoreboard with a penny and chases off the grifter.

Believe it or not, these small simple games had a part to play in the ending of the Depression. They also provided hours of amusement for just pennies; and, perhaps most importantly, they offered hope to people who had all but lost it.

There are many different types of shooting gallery machines like this one. They were made by the ABT company and are so rugged that most still work. You can find several websites that deal in these trade stimulators.

60 thoughts on “Drop coin into slot: The Challenger–an airgun that paid off the Depression!

  1. So sorry to hear about Tom. I guess he just missed that hospial food so much…

    At first, the 'Challenger' name made me think this was a Crosman product. Glad to see that it wasn't. Still, the 'gaffed' paddle seems like a crock.

    Does one know how much these sold for when new?


  2. Good Morning Tom and Edith,

    Arn't you both glad that you have an umbrella for those pouring rain times! God Bless both of you.

    Mr B.



  3. Subject change:

    I put this up much too late last night (5:00 AM EDT), so will repeat it here.

    Friday night for the first time since neck surgery I shot a target that scored at 90 in 10 meter air pistol using an FWB C-20, R-10 pistol pellets, and a Kruger target. A personal best.

    Then last night I shot for group and control and did 40 rounds that stayed in the 8 ring or better, save for 4 sevens. I credit my surgeon for restoring the nerve in the right arm that controls the trigger finger.

    For logistical and legal reasons, all my shooting is 10 m ISSF rules these days, and likely to stay so. And yes, I'm bragging & I know it's rude but have to tell somebody.

    -pete


  4. PZ, it ain't rude. You're just sharing good news! Nuthin' wrong with that.

    Believe me, if I ever shot that well – I wouldn't say a thing, because I'd know that I must've been dreaming it (I'm really bad with pistol)


  5. Edith and Tom,

    So so sad to see Tom back in the hospital. I have been and continue to pray for him. You both are in my prayers daily.

    Tom get well soon. God bless you and Edith.

    And shame on those store owners who had this game in their stores. Because that is called being crooks. Had I ever seen one I would likely have been one of the fools dumping penny after penny into it. Thank God for the honest proprietor of the store near us.


  6. rikiB

    No, you do not have to register your handgun. Not only that, but you couldn't register it, even if you wanted to!

    Georgia has no gun registration.

    Here is a great site that spells out the gun laws in Georgia.

    GeorgiaCarry.Org

    I would strongly encourage you to check it out. If you don't know what your rights are, you won't know when someone is violating them. Take it easy Richard.

    PeteZ

    Attaboy Pete! If you have to tell more people, tell your surgeon. I would bet he would be happy to hear you appreciate his handiwork.


  7. pete
    I think I have found a slightly beneficial side effect of some very unpleasant medical proceduers I had in the last year.
    Chemo has left me with numbness and tingling in my hands and feet. The only good part…..I can't feel movement in the trigger. No distractions to break my concentration or make me flinch in anticipation of the shot.
    It does make handling pellets difficult though.

    Have to wonder if wearing a bandaid on the trigger finger would have a similar effect…reducing touch sensitivity.

    twotalon


  8. Tell my surgeon? I sent him a target! He was pleased. He gave me back the nerves to my trigger finger.

    I don't know about wearing a bandaid. I don't think I would be as alert to the pressure I was starting to exert. But as in so much of shooting, different things work for different people, and you should use what works for you, not what works for me.

    -pete


  9. Pete,

    I'm always amazed when a doctor isn't anti-gun. I guess I'm so used to the opposite that it never fails to surprise me. Glad your surgery went well & that it has enhanced your enjoyment of shooting!

    Edith



  10. Edith,
    Sorry about Tom's relapse, but I'm sure you'll take good care of him.

    PeteZ,
    Good shooting. I'd be happy to hit paper with a pistol:). I have to make do with the trigger finger I've got, which is so numb, except when it hurts:), that it takes something awful to make a difference.


  11. Speaking of different smokes for different folks…

    Does anybody else here ever put their thumb on the back of the trigger guard while squeezing the trigger? When I'm in trouble, I'll try anything. Strangely enough, it seems as though it works sometimes. Its like pinching the trigger instead of pulling it.




  12. Slinging Lead,

    Yes I've pinched the trigger on some springers that needed more technique than most.

    Speaking of which…I had a friend show up this weekend carrying a npss and a sour look on his face. He thrust the gun into my hands and said see if you can shoot this.

    Wish this story had a happier ending. Started by tightening screws, shot lots of different pellets, cleaned the barrel, held it tight held it loose, rested on the back of fingers (like B.B. had to do to get this gun to group), pinched the trigger, etc. etc.

    Best group at 20 yards was maybe an inch. Never had a springer more challenging to shoot than that one.

    kevin


  13. Kevin,

    Did you chronograph the gun? I wonder if the gas spring has lost some air and may not be shooting well because of that. Just thinking out loud.

    Edith


  14. Mrs. Gaylord,

    Yes, we shot it across my chronograph for the first two groups (20 shots). It was doing around 960fps with jsb's. About right for our elevation of 5,300 feet.

    Even went to PA's site to see what other reviewers said about their guns. Amazing that others are getting such good groups with this gun. Made us feel like really lousy shots. Guess we just need more practice with the gun to know how it likes to be held but I'm not sure Fred is going to keep it very much longer.

    kevin


  15. Kevin,

    Is the barrel bent?

    Did your friend try to clean it before you shot it? I'm asking because sometimes aggressive cleaning with a rod or aggressive cleaning compounds can damage the rifling.

    Edith


  16. pete – that's what it's all about….bragging no….but improving or getting the most out of your airgun.

    BB – It's too bad you had to go back to the alien probing station, I mean hospital. Get well soon.


  17. Mrs. Gaylord,

    Don't think the barrel is bent. The lockup on his npss was loose though. We found that even after tightening the screws that we could shift the poi by holding the barrel upwards to create a tighter lockup.

    He didn't clean the barrel but I did midway through our shooting session and it helped a little with accuracy.

    Since my ego won't allow me to take responsibility for this poor shooting, I'm blaming the sharp, jumpy firing cycle of the npss. That gun bounces more than any other magnum springer I've shot and it's partly because of the powerplant and mostly, IMHO, because of the light synthetic stock. I suggested if he want to keep the gun to put a heavier stock on it or weight the stock since it feels hollow.

    Not sure what he's going to do since he's almost out of patience with the gun.

    I'm in Wayne's camp when it comes to magnum springers. If I need a pellet to go faster than 800fps I'll reach for a pcp. The experience this weekend with the npss just reaffirmed that for me.

    kevin



  18. BB, Pray you are back on your feet soon!

    Last night, well early morning I requested some info that many may have not seen so I'll ask again if no one minds.
    Is anyone familiar with Bond Arms Snake Slayer 45/410 Derringers? Also, what about Taurus Judge Revolver?
    The reason I ask is that I am not always next to my tractor (remember shotgun mount) and was thinking a 410 pistol might be more readily available.
    Slinging Lead, if I don't or can't register the gun why do I need to go through a FFL to order one?
    rikib



  19. Kevin,
    If NPSS is throwing all pellets that way with decent hold, I'd think it might need crown checked. Are the groups round or distinctly some other shape? On the other hand, that isn't that far off for a picky magnum with a pellet it doesn't like, in some cases it might be pretty good:). The harsh cycle might be the gas piston, but it could also be a compromised breech or piston seal, especially if you smell anything. I've seen some excellent groups posted from reliable sources, so the design must work sometimes.


  20. Edith,

    Sorry to hear about Tom's relapse. Don't get discouraged. My Dad went through a long period of relapses after some procedures, but he finally pulled through for good.

    PZ, my Dad likes to laminate his bullseye targets and show them to his eye doctor. Nice shooting.

    Slinging Lead, Jeff Cooper recommends pinching the trigger guard with the thumb in some cases. Nancy Tompkins recommends placing the thumb of the shooting hand on the stock directly in line with trigger and applying a slight squeeze as you press the trigger.

    Regarding the Founding Fathers, I've read a compilation of commentary about them by each other, and it was not…er…very friendly.

    Matt61


  21. Just because of word verification:
    FINGLYZA I thought I better post!I don't know,maybe Pete Z's new nickname?Honestly Pete I knew you were improving post surgery but damn….I think I want that operation LOL Tom,don't look back,just keep getting better!



  22. I put up a fairly long post mostly thanking people about half an hour ago. It hasn't shown, and I didn't keep a copy.

    But truly, thanks, guys.

    -pete


  23. "my Dad likes to laminate his bullseye targets and show them to his eye doctor."

    I just want my eye doc to let me bring in my target guns and write prescrips at exactly the right distances to see the front sights correctly. But he doesn't want to do it that way. And extrapolating from the text card in my lap at book-reading distance doesn't cut it.

    -pz



  24. rikiB

    The FFL is to protect the seller in intrastate trade. The gun retailer holds the FFL, as well as the transferer, as required by law, not the gun purchaser.

    You can legally buy and sell guns all the livelong day among fellow Georgians without FFLs. If you buy from a gunstore, they are going to have an FFL so that they can buy whatever they want from whomever they want.

    Also just because you are not being entered into a government database associated with the guns you purchase, does not mean that the gunstore will not record your vital information. They have the right to ask you for it. You have the right to refuse. They have the right to ask you to leave the store.

    Gunstore owners have no desire to find out on the evening news that they are the ones who sold a weapon to a psycho who went on a rampage. It is bad for business.




  25. Edith,

    I hope that cyst will give up for himself. Tell BB that he is still in our prayers.

    Everyone,

    I witnessed the other day a glad discussion about physics in airgun. Gosh, I my head was turning. But I rescued one concept: why is important to consider conversion to plasma of the gases in a spring gun when firing? It is important that conversion to plasma, thinking about the transfer port?

    I hope many of you can help. Jane? Herb?

    (sorry for my poor English— hope to be clear)
    Greetings from the land of tequila and wide-eyed women

    Anthony


  26. Hi All…

    I'm back from Larry Durhams (LD) shoot in Temecula Ca.

    Not great to hear Tom is back in the hospital. But glad to hear it's not serious, and he's getting drained.. everyone needs an oil change every few years.. right?

    Ok, here is the grim news of my butt kicking I got in S. Calif.

    A crummy 17/37 on Sat. and much better 24/37 on Sunday. Top score on Sat. was Tim MacMurry with 33/37. Three others were tied at 31/37, including Kevin Yee who I shot with on Sat. It was a USFT fest… might have been three of four guns that weren't USFTs at the shoot. I think about 20 or so shooters came. I don't know the Sunday scores yet, since I left after I got done and before everyone finished.

    I arrived Friday to help set up and get a feel for the wind.

    Larry's place is on a hill top of granite boulders, sage brush, grasses and wild flowers. It's really a beautiful place to visit and shoot.

    The wind from the ocean and air currents from the inland heat rising, is always there to different degrees. It gusts and dies and is protected in areas and blasting in others.. one minute you need 5" of windage at 50 yards, and the next minute, it's only 1-1/2".

    It was truly a pleasure to shoot with Kevin Yee on Saturday and Ron on Sunday.

    I’m a newbie…. this is the start of my second year of field target…. So I have only a few other courses to compare, (the nationals is one of them), but LDs’ course, and custom targets really opened my mind to cruel things I can do on our shoot on Memorial weekend (last weekend of May)..

    Our wind will not be as helpful to me as Larry gets. His hilltop ranch with little valleys and mixed protected areas must be unmatched for hard to read wind currents. But, still, I learned lots of ways to make shooters cuss the match director.

    Like.. sitting down and thinking “that looks like a nice big kill zone”, only to find out the paddle is a ½” disk in the center of a 1-1/2” kill zone. I've gotta get my millwright to build some of them.

    Or…. Uphill and downhill shots at such steep angles, some shooters fall over backwards .. or slide down the slope. Or not finding anyway to sit in the cracks of a granite boulder for the shot.

    I know I can never match LD’s course for toughness and FUN!, but I’ve got lots of things cooking in my wacky brain..

    I won’t even try to get the food as good… and it’s not possible to match the talk around the campfire.. unless I can get LD and the gang to come up to our shoot too!

    And he did it all for $35! I can't charge $90 like I planned!.. so, I'm lowering my entry fee to $35 too. A new post with details later this week.

    Hope to see you all at the end of May.

    Wacky Wayne, Match Director, Ashland Air Rifle Range


  27. I know now I must never attend a Field Target match. The peer pressure to buy a USFT would be too much to bear.

    Wayne's inspiration about evil ways to make his FT range maddeningly more challenging, reminded me of something from my own experience.

    Building the perfect mountainbike trail is a thing of artistic beauty and engineering complexity.

    Make it too easy, and it is nice enough– but boring. Make it too difficult, and it will be slow, frustrating, and will extract skin.

    First you have to consider sustainability. You can build the most beautiful trail in the world but if it is done wrong the first rain will cut horrible un-ridable ruts through it, formerly fast sections will become sandy washouts, and you will have helped destroy the environment.

    Then you have to look at fun/speed/challenge factor. I saw once where a guy won a pro MB race on a ROADBIKE with dropbars (NON-CYCLISTS: this is like entering a dragster in a monster truck rally), just to protest how easy and boring the trail was. People quickly get bored of easy trails. On the other hand, if you make the trail too challenging, newcomers may get discouraged and give up. This is bad for the sport. The best trails have more than one way to ride the trail. You ride down the dips in terrain, or haul ass, and sail over all of them. Also you can have very difficult technical sections, but have a side trail that skirts these sections. This makes it fun for everybody. You can psych yourself up to try the hard section next time if you are new.

    Last, but not least, is aesthetic appeal. I have ridden trails that were fast, and fun as hell… but ugly. The master trailbuilders can take all of the above considerations into mind, and yet at every turn have beautiful fields or enchanting vistas or other Kodak moments to enjoy.

    Keep in mind, Slinging Lead has very little experience building trails other than patching up areas others have ruined. But I have ridden enough trails to know what I like. When I ride a bad one, I look around and cut imaginary trails through the woods that make it better. When I ride a good trail, I have a blast, and marvel at the trailbuilder's artistry.

    I see parallels in FT match direction.


  28. Disco owners,

    I just got a scuba tank with K valve to fill the Disco. I wonder which of the two adapters that PA carries should I get. Some reviews say the Kingsman adapter sometimes does not fit over the K valve. Others say that the Air Venturi "charging set" is flimsy, or leaks, etc.

    Anybody knows the clearance in each of them so I can check before buying?

    Thank you
    T.E.


  29. Slinging Lead
    You brought back some old memories of when I was stationed in Hawaii in the early 90's. I had a "Kona Fire Mountain" bike that I loved to push to the limits, find trails or make them. Damn also reminds me that in my footlocker I still have some of those padded lycra bike shorts (might be able to fit them on one leg now).
    rikib


  30. We all know that PA is a top notch website for airguns. I was wondering if anyone knew of an equal quality site for firearms, there are so many sites out there. Any recommendations?
    rikib


  31. Rikib,

    your here.. ask away!

    firearms are big time here..

    They got me going on firearms and I can't stop now:-)

    SL,

    You got it right. It's a lot the same as mt. bikes. We want to challenge the top shooters, and their equip, but make it easy enough for the "newbies" and their equip, to feel like it's possible to have fun and be like the top shooters someday…

    …all they need is that $2,500 outfit:-)

    In my humble opinion, LD could give a rats ….. about making it easy for newbies… (at least at this contest).. I get that the match I just went to, was for making sure, none of the top shooters could "clean the course".

    and they (most of the top west coast shooters were there) didn't come close…. even though it kicked my butt, I have to smile…

    My excuse, is now.. for the time being.. (I'll think of more as needed).. I don't use a harness or jacket… it's very hollow, since my hero, Bobby Cockran (spelling?) shoots without a harness or jacket too, and he was in that mix of top shooters on Saturday. (the only one, I think without a harness or jacket)… but sorry folks, shooting a USFT too. I don't think any of the top shooters were shooting anything else:-)

    Tim is a happy camper!

    Wacky Wayne, MD. Ashland Air Rifle Rang3e



  32. Wayne,
    Was the guy I like — the one with the QB78 — there? I peeked at the YFT forum during nationals to see how you were doing, and hoped for your sake that they were nicer in person than they were to each other online:).


  33. Kevin,
    Just read on another forum that accuracy issues with the new NPSS's may be due to the scope. At least one person reported that when the scope was switched, his groups shrunk significantly. Maybe try that before giving up. Would be easier of course if they had sights, but alas… please report because I'm seriously considering one myself:)


  34. Wayne,

    in the world of motorcycles, there's a kinda new sport called a "dual purpose" run. It consists of two courses – one for Class A enduro riders who ride through the mud, rocks, extremely narrow trails through trees and deep sand and one for newbies on equipment more suited for a paved road. They typically are routed to fire roads. Perhaps you might consider different classes for the competitors – the "A" teamers, so to speak, and someone like me who would show up with his RWS46 (since I shoot it better than the RWS 52).

    As for Memorial Day Weekend, sorry, I'm flying out to Chicago to see my son. We're off to Springfield, IL for the Springfield mile – the holy grail of dirt track racing! Motorcycles, not bicycles, Slinging Lead.

    Did I tell you about my ride the other weekend? Had a girl in spandex pass me. I decided the view from behind was, uh, worth studying so I was determined to stay on her rear wheel. Then we hit the hill. Pulled away from me like I was going backwards.

    Fred PRoNJ


  35. BG_Farmer, thanks for the sites could not find what I was looking though.

    Wayne, I'm trying to find more info about Bond Arms Snake Slayer 45/410 Derringer. My security software says their site is a risk. I've read a lot of reviews and have gone to online dealers. I don't know what dealers online would be reputable though like PA is.

    The snake slayer seems the best of both worlds as far as being easy to carry and yet being basically a shotgun unless I'm misinterpreting the reviews.
    rikib


  36. tunnel engineer,

    I bought the Kingman adapter for my Marauder that fits on the standard 80 scuba tank. I like it very much and it is very well made, solid. I don't know why it wouldn't fit all tanks unless it's because of the valve knob diameter on the tank. The valve knob on my tank is slightly over one and a half inches in diameter at the place where it clears the knob just barely. Maybe earlier tanks had larger knobs. If the

    Interestingly, I couldn't find any markings on my adapter that said who made it. I had to look it up on the PA site to see what it was.

    I would have liked the adapter gauge to be larger to make it easier to read but I use the one on the gun ok anyway and it's even smaller than the one on the adapter. I know nothing about the Air Venturi one but the gauge looks like it is larger but wouldn't be worth it if it was flimsier.

    Don't forget to check to see if you also need the "probe" for the Disco. My Marauder needed an additional "probe" to connect to the adapter hose that made it a Foster quick disconnect connection. The word probe is a misnomer since it is really a female Foster connector. Aren't too many females with probes :-)

    -Chuck


  37. tunnel engineer,
    I meant to change my comment about the gauge size between the Marauder and the Kingman adapter. Actually they are both the same size but the graduations on the gun are easier and more precise to read. Sorry about the mislead. That's what happens when I rely on memory. So I actually got the gun out to verify my statement and saw I was wrong to use my memory.

    Also, about the commenter called w,
    I believe he was referring to the PA web site and not this blog. Like him, I wish I could find an online firearm/parts dealer as good and as well organized as PA is with airguns.

    -Chuck


  38. Fred
    Must have been a nice view, but she must not have had the brains to go with it wearing spandex.
    I've had 9 bikes and after seeing my friend go down and need several skin grafts I always wore leathers or heavy denim. Even in Hawaii, at stop lights it would get hot, but I would think of my friend.
    I've survived a few accidents, even gone over a car. Just saying my friend be careful out there! Most people don't watch for bikers, and sadly a few even gun for them. Be safe, take care.
    rikib


  39. To Tom,

    Tom, I ordered the Bronco and should be getting it in a few days. I have been losing interest in the springers I have since I have gone over to the PCP darkside (Talon SS and Marauder). From what I'm reading about the Bronco I'm hoping it'll rekindle some of that springer enthusiasm I once had and pass it on to my grandkids. I know I really liked the IZH-61 when I first started shooting and saw it was an accurate gun but then found Mr T and Ms M were more pleasant and unbelievably more accurate (but 4-5 times the cost, too).

    I'm hoping for a less harsh, less boingy powersupply, I guess. That plus I'm addicted to airguns and need a fix.

    -Chuck


  40. Chuck

    I used to live in Atlanta just off Ponce de Leon. There were plenty of 'females' hanging out on the street corners that had probes.

    Have fun with the Bronco. In my experience, it was smoother and far more accurate than the 61. Maybe I should have given my nephew the 61 instead of the Bronco;^) I'm sure it will satisfy your fix (for a little while.)


  41. Rikib,

    I've got the "judge". I think it's a great revolver. I like .45lc as a round. Easy to shoot, but still enough foot lbs out to 50 yards or so. Don't count on a revolver with the shotgun shells. The patten is so wide, that it's not much good as a shotgun for anything farther than 10' or so… even with the 6" barrel that I got.

    Forget about any barrel shorter if you plan on shooting .410 shotgun shells.

    The way I think about it is.. you can have a warning shot of #8 shot, then a round of #4 shot, then three more .45lc up to 300gr. The judge can handle it. It's a "show stopper".. large to carry, but built well.

    I don't know anything about the "Bond Arms Snake Slayer 45/410 Derringer", but I don't like the sound of a .45lc "derringer"

    I want something heavy for the round to launch against… not my hand:-)

    SL.

    Hmmmm… was it her fast bike or did she have beans for dinner last night?.. super charged!

    sorry, it's my 10 year old bathroom humor breaking out.

    Wacky Wayne

    WV. was "lentils" could it be?


  42. B.B.

    Wow, 45fpe with the .25 cal Marauder!

    Now I do need to compare with the Evanix Rainstorm, that claims 46 fpe in .22 cal. I like the side lever and stock better on the Evanix. I should be getting mine tomorrow. I just hope I have time to play with it. My guess is the Marauder will be more quiet.

    The Marauder is most likely more adjustable, but I know "noooonothing"..

    ..but I hope to find a little something out.

    Wacky Wayne


  43. BG_Farmer,

    I didn't see anyone with a QB78. Two guys were shooting Marauders. One was customized and one was stock. Someone was shooting a Daystate CR97, and Ron, my partner on Sunday, was shooting a .22 cal RWS Excaliber (same as a FX)..

    There might have been a few other non- USFTs around, but not many anyone was shootin:-) Oh how could I forget Doug & Vida Miller and their FWBs.. I just learned that Doug came from behind and won the open PCP class.

    But of course, we don't count his win, since he ain't shootin a USFT.

    Wacky Wayne


  44. Wayne,
    Appreciate your response I was looking a the "judge" as well. You never know who is paying for reviews, that's why I came here. One review compared the two at about 10' and groupings were about equal with shotgun shell. They try to use the size as a selling point, especially if carried in a car. Stating that if two shots won't get you out of trouble nothing else would. I believe they are both priced fairly close so I may have to look further into the "judge".
    Thanks again
    rikib


  45. Wayne,
    I guess it was hunter class and a tweaked 2079 on HPA, but he did beat a USFT (and one came in ahead of him):).

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/113813/message/1255998909/QB-AR2079+takes+second+place+at+FT+National+Championships

    If I were you, I would leave that tedious sport and get into CAS:).

    By the way, there's a Marlin 1893 shooter on Track of the Wolf, in 30-30!
    http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(cnic0eag2dhkk52linvdzg45))/categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=12&subId=78&styleId=266&partNum=AAG-239
    I don't know a thing about them, but this one looks like it may have spent some time on the range, and I don't mean the shooting range:).


  46. Wayne,
    You've given me a splitting headache. Now I'm looking up all this info on the different models of the "judge", but then again thank you.
    rikib


  47. Well, think I may need to drive the 15 miles to town and check some pawn shops and gun shops. Looking for online dealers is a puzzle and even gunbroker auction prices are more than dealers it just seems so complicated to get firearms online, not at all like PA.
    rikib


  48. On the off chance that Wayne, RikiB and Slinging Lead read yesterday's blog, let me say:

    RikiB – I'm with you buddy. When I ride my motorcycle, I wear a full coverage suit made by Aerostich with armor in the shoulders, knees and elbows along with a full coverage helmet. That girl, however, was on a bicycle, as was I.

    Slinging Lead – her boyfriend appeared much bigger than me so grabbing the saddle was not an option :)

    Wayne – the speed differential was probably due to a 25 year difference in lungs, heart and legs. I'm just not the climber I would like to be. However, I'm murder on descents, reaching 40 mph in shorts and t-shirt and a stupid little bicycle helmet. I'd never ride my motorcycles dressed like that!

    Fred PRoNJ


  49. Tunnel engineer,

    Your comment about the Air Venturi charging set being flimsy or leaking was forwarded to several people at Pyramyd Air. They are aware of the quality issues and have been addressing it.

    Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

    Edith


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