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Education / Training Spring break barrels are dead – TNT Episode 4

Spring break barrels are dead – TNT Episode 4

In the 4th installment of the limited TNT series, Tyler contemplates either he works too hard, or not enough, thinks about the fact that break barrel rifles just don’t do it for him anymore, and heads out once again to TX for advise from Tom. Just to get some advise and wisdom, and maybe a little bit of airgun therapy, but mainly to spend time away from the office, and shooting spring powered airguns. Err… Talking break barrel airguns. Will there be any secrets revealed during this conversation? Maybe. Only way to find out is if you watch episode 4 yourself.

70 thoughts on “Spring break barrels are dead – TNT Episode 4”

  1. Tyler,

    The current airgun blog that published Friday discusses a spring gun that is easy to maintain. People say that’s what they want. Something for a non mechanical sort of guy or gal.

    BB

    • BB,

      It’s been a while. You folks are in my thoughts.
      How about a new Beeman R9 for your collection? Of course, a long, long series of report has to follow that purchase. 😉 With the 12 FPE Vortek kit, she might shoot smoother, better, and further than the Diana 27 – I have hope.
      Considering all the current supply issues, there is an excellent climate to manufacture here, in the USA. Wonderful times to come up with a good quality break barrel springer, a new classic without fiber optics or plastic. Do you think the American Manufacturers will hear me out?
      You made great points in the video. Despite all the hi-tech PCPs and such, I think springers are here to say – maybe in fewer numbers, but still will stand strong, especially the premium ones. Like revolvers… There will always be amazing hi-tech modern pistol designs, but a good quality revolver will still be around – Just my opinion.

      Fish

      • Fish
        I have got 3 new to me spring guns in the last 6 months. The most recent a Hw35e which is for sure a keeper. Then before that a new style stock Hw50 and a Diana 54 Air King.

        Also I have a Tx 200 walnut left hand stock that will not be going anywhere soon. As well as my modded FWB 300s.

        Hmm and I consider myself a darksider. But I do have some multi pumps and Co2 guns. Maybe I should just call myself a airgunner. 🙂

  2. Tom and Tyler,

    I skipped the spring piston powerplants on my return to airguns over three decades ago.
    I did CO2, Single & multipumpers, and 10M PCP then I found a real 80+ FPS 8 shot .25 caliber bullet shooter for hunting. It was switch barrel capable up to 9 mm and i never bought another powerplant other than PCP until the SIG SSG ASP20. I bought two of them one in each caliber, one in wood and the .22 in synthetic just when SIG AIR announced they were ending production. I have shot the .22 at 100 and keep it just under 2 MOA from a rest. Given that level of accuracy at 100 with a 4-12 scope and that SIG AIR didn’t/couldn’t sell a half million of them in three years…the metal spring gas spring mid to high end powerplant is dead in a decade once the current hardcore users age/wink out!
    The handwriting is on the wall for all the manufacturers to see and it was written by the ASP20 failure.
    Sad but true in this early addopting Dark Siders opinion!

    shootski

      • Fish,

        I bought both of my kids (three decades ago) their own Marksman Model 1790; a break barrel that they used for Bikeathlon. Those two rifles were the only two metal (coil) spring piston airguns in our house ever. My son became a real World Class Biathlete and is currently a USA Biathlon Official…must have been good enough of a start. My daughter is LEO likely going special weapons unit in the near future.

        Why do you ask Fish?

        shootski

    • Shootski,
      Did the ASP20 fail? All I’ve heard is that they stopped making them because they got sued. As far as know the gun was not defective and all I’ve read about them are good reviews.

      • Ton,

        SIG AIR failed to sell them in large enough numbers because IMHO they lost the social media campaign. The SSG ASP20.is everything tha B.B. and a few other writers that don’t have ulterior motives said it is. I think the rifle is the best break barrel Sporter ever built. The .22 rifle that I have shoots slightly under 2 MOA groups at 100, rested, with the SIG 4×12 WHISKEY3 ASP scope; what other break barrel rifle do you know of that can do that?
        There is so much false, WRONG, misinformed stuff on other blogs going around that it is laughable. As far as Sig being sued that was SIG SAUER GmbH. Not all SIG companies is/are the same. SIG AIR was a subset of SIG USA which has some relationship to SIG SAUER GmbH in europe but exactly how would take a degree in Corporate and International Law. The bigest speculation out there that makes sense is that SIG USA figured out that they need to free up capacity on their worker, production floor and machines for all the better selling/profitable civilian firearms and military contracts that have been ?raining? down on them. Sig Air apparently still exists but sells stuff (CO2 & PCP) built elsewhere under SIG USA Licencing agreements best I can tell.
        No one at SIG USA is talking or has written about what reall happened to the high end gas spring rifle and the ASP Pistol. I suspect Ed Schultz knows but can’t talk because of his departure from SIG AIR and move back to Crosman or whatever they call themselves this month.
        Oh! I don’t plan to ever sell my two SSG ASP20 way to good of an break barrel airgun!
        Said the Dark Sider.

        shootski

          • Ton,

            I doubt SIG USA would ever do that.
            In looking at the ASP20 they used some really state-of-the-art equipment, methods and technology from their firearm side of the house. I may be wrong but I suspect that these airguns are going to operate well for many years with a minimum of care. There are airguns with more lux finishes but the ASP20s just exude QUALITY and the metal finish (just like many of SIG USA firearms) is perfect for a sporter/hunter; well beyond other break barrel airguns in the same price class.
            I suspect that the folks who do what the owners manual requires fo r care along with exercising the gas spring regularly will have tens of thousands of shots without trouble after a successful break-in.
            Time wil tell,

            shootski

        • Best break barrel is high praise for the gun IMO. Maybe, you could make the case for best gas piston…but the best break barrel made today (and when the ASP20 was introduced) is the R9/HW95. Was the ASP20 a good gun, sure, but the best it was not.

          • Tyler@PA,

            I would need to do a side by side with a Beeman R9 and/or a Weihrauch HW95 at 100 to see if they would group as well. I have very little experience with break barrels since they were always other folks rifles who wanted to try my PCPs. I realize many airguners stop every critique with the mere mention of REKORD but that isn’t the entire package that needs to be evaluated.
            I should have been more specific in my use of the .22 SSG ASP20 with the synthetic stock as a hunter.
            I would like to see someone shoot the Beeman or Weihrauch at 100. I suspect that all three will hunt well out to 50. It would be interesting to see which would retain enough energy and small enough a group size to hunt beyond 50.

            shootski

        • Shootski,
          I am unable to reply to tour last post to me on the subject because the reply tab is missing!!
          Any way, I wonder why are they so tight lipped about the reason for discontinuing the ASP20?

          • Fish,

            Some time back B.B. said this: “I don’t own an R9, but I’m pretty sure the best one could do is 4-5 inches at 100 yards. And that would be a stretch. An R9 will put 10 shots into 1.5 inches at 50 yards in my experience.

            I have shot an AirForce CindorSS and made a 10-shot one-inch group at 100 yards. And i recently made a 1.5-inch 6-shot group with an AirForce Texan.

            B.B.”

            What can I say…
            shootski

        • shootski,

          As nice as that trigger is on those ASP20’s you have, they are not Rekord or Air Arms. A well tuned R9 / HW95 will likely go pellet to pellet with the ASP20. That ASP20 trigger is the primary reason I did not buy one. Some of the gals I have around here do not have as sweet a trigger, but if I am going to pay that much, it had better.

          • RidgeRunner,

            First of all and most importantly how is your recovery coming along? I hope your shoulder gets back to full range and use. I knew from B.B. and other shooters descriptions what the SIG’s trigger was going to be; i wasn’t surprised. As I said the Sig makes a great hunter of small to medium game and the package i was talking about was a quality synthetic stock with flush cups (L & R) for my Tab Gear BIATHLON style sling, a very solid finish choice (Nitron) for a hunting arm in sloppy conditions, and the ASP WHISKEY 3 scope which seems to be worth more than most included scope packages. The trigger is a good hunting trigger which is always a subjective issue driven by personal preference.
            I must self disclose that I have never been a Trigger Nazi and have learned how to make some pretty awful trigger groups get the job done.
            So yes the R9/HW95 have no doubt the better trigger from my limited experience but I like the rest of the SIG ASP20 package better (for hunting for sure)…my subjective opinion. Only time will really tell if the ASP20 was a good choice; realize that I will probably never buy an R9/HW95 but the ASP20 got the Dark Sider to buy and shoot two.
            “A well tuned R9 / HW95 will likely go pellet to pellet with the ASP20. ” Are you talking to 100 in a .22? I need to get some 50-100 time with the .177 ASP20 and see how it does; maybe it will do well beyond 50 and maybe not. The numbers say it wont be ethical for hunting and probably not even pesting but won’t know unless I try. But first I need to see if some of the newest .22 bullet (slug) designs will work in my 2 MOA pellet shooter at 100.

            shootski

        • Shootski,

          Let us start off with the news that my shoulder is doing great! If anyone out there has a torn rotator cuff and do not get surgery, they are stupid. I have regained almost complete use of my left arm and with warm up I have total use.

          I know many times I seem like a “trigger Nazi”, most of my favorite triggers are single stage. I like a nice, crisp, clean, break, not matter how many pounds of force it takes. I have one single stage that I abhor. It creeps and scrunches along until it finally let’s go. I have even learned to use it.

          For some reason, most manufacturers have a lot of trouble making a decent sproinger trigger. By all accounts, the ASP20 has a nice trigger. Personally, I think you have done quite well in your selection of the ASP20 as your first dabbling into sproingers. You are pretty close to the pinnacle. I have not reached it yet myself. I do not own a customized R9 / HW95 or a TX200 MK3 in a walnut stock. I have seen them, I have shot them, I have drooled on them. One day…

          Now to the subject of one hundred yard shooting. The .177 just ain’t gonna do it. It is going to run out of steam long before you get there. You are going to do good to get a decent group at 50 yards with it. As you pointed out, almost all sproingers are 2 MOA at best.

          The .22 ASP20 might have enough legs to get you there. Break out your chrony and find a pellet that gives you 850-950 PSI. That should be enough umph to get there and be stable enough to do decent.

          If you keep in mind that the sproinger is good to between 25 and 50 yards max, they are wonderful. Take note that almost all of BB’s testing of sproingers stop at 25 yards.

          • RidgeRunner,

            Glad to hear your shoulder recovery is going so very well!
            Some good advice as always about sproingers without the BIAS that those that don’t shoot anything else seem to frequently bring to the coffee table.
            I’ll let you know how I do at 50+ with the .177; need to buy some more .177 round nose pellets to try.

            shootski

  3. As long as Weihrauch is around, the springers are alive. Air Arms is also good. We still have a couple of fine Dianas left.
    I think it’s time for Crosman to introduce a premium break barrel springer. They might as well buy the rights to produce the ASP20 and bring her back to life.
    The supply issues are here to stay, a good opportunity to produce local.

    • I don’t disagree. There are plenty of good piston guns on the market today, but as prices go up, the inevitable second guessing comparison to the lower price PCPs and pumps become even more of a reality for most users. The market for higher end piston guns is a tough one. Consider the length of time Weihrauch and Air Arms have been dominating that part of the market, and you’ll quickly see that it is a tall mountain to climb, let alone reach the top of. While I’d love to see someone produce something new in the high end space, I think the focus should be on producing something in the $200-300 range that competes with those higher end guns. The Diana 34 used to be that model, but that price went up and out of that range with the introduction of the EMS. We shall see what the future holds. I know there are some interesting things on the horizon.

      • Please don’t even remind me what happened to the 34; my eyes get teary.

        Well, maybe there is an alternative that could retire the springers, both coil and gas. An advanced multi-pump that can deliver the power of 30S with only 2 pumps. No need to reinvent the wheel to make that happen; all needed is to revisit Archimedes’s designs. The model might even be called after him. Lothar Walter barrel, Record or T06 level quality two stage trigger, iron sights of 30S / with tunnel front sight, and Turkish walnut stock. $200-300. Maybe a design that lets the shooter seat the pellet with her finger.

        Crosman 362 multi-pump air rifle is a good attempt. I wish she had ‘a real’ 2 stage trigger and a .177 version. Or, at least, the Benjamin Variable Pump Air Rifle got a lower cheekpiece. Or a Dragonfly Mark 2 with true iron sights, not that fiber optic one at the front. Or single pump version of TR5?

        Springers require artillery hold and come with uncivilized brutal shooting princible. Too much of a harsh drama going on inside a springer rifle, in my opinion. I don’t agree that they are good platforms to learn on. Artillery hold can turn into a bad habit, a habit that works on springers only.

        My answer to your thoughts is a quality multi pump.

        • A high power SSP or even low stroke count MSP would definitely be interesting. The Daystate Sportsman (later the titan Mohawk IIRC) was one such example. Could be an interesting one to re-hash now that other parts of the world are making quality airguns. Who knows….could be a thing

          • Yes, Daystate Sportsman Mark II… I’ve just remembered BB’s report on her. A good product, but bad marketing, I think. Her price shouldn’t have been more than 30S’s. If anything like that were to be introduced again, the price should fill the spot that the 34’s price tag used to occupy – otherwise, it won’t work.

            Also, MODEL 753S could be used as a plinker – needs a 2-stage trigger though and a tad bit more power with the single pump.

            Double / single pumps are PCPs with all the practicalities of springers – minus the disadvantages. Man, you officially changed my mind on springers.

          • Second thought. I think I am still a springer guy. I love Diana 27 and HW30S way too much to change teams.
            Weihrauch, do not change anything.
            Diana, please bring 27 back with her iron sights.

  4. BB
    To you.
    Now that all these extra articles are coming out is anybody helping you watch the blog comments or know what to do if stuff goes on. Plus now your writing more reports. I’m betting you didn’t get a well deserved raise did you. If you did great. If it doesn’t work that way you should get one.

    And one more question. Why don’t Pyramid Air let Bow Bully have a separate blog like they do with the pistol blog?

    To me the BOW reports and this Episode with Tyler just interrupts the normal blog you do.. I honestly don’t care for it.

    What can I say. You know how Gunfun1 can get sometimes. 😉

      • Fish
        The videos are ok about airguns. But just have it during the week on one day. But now it just adds another day of work to the week..

        And I see how PA is trying to promote there line of crossbows and possibly bring some other types of shooters into air guns also.

        My thing is right now and actually for some time I haven’t hunted deer. I do hunt rabbit and squirrel here and there but mostly plink and some pesting. Crossbows are quiet, but all I would probably do with a crossbow would be plink or target shoot. I guess it’s nice to be able to reuse the arrows but I’m sure accuracy would sooner or later be affected. And thinking more I always did not like retrieving arrows. Yep another blog for bow and arrow on the PA site. Would I check it out. Probably so. Well if I was learning something that is.

        And yes there was/is??? another blog on the PA site that was about air pistols. I haven’t looked since they started changing the blog around so I don’t know how to explain if it’s still there or how to get to it.

        • GF1

          Yes it is still up started in May 2016 right over here /airgun-experience/40th-anniversary-shootist/ it is in the old format that this blog used to have.

          Mike

  5. Tyler

    Before you drift off on that couch I have to add a reason for springers to shine. We know a few are very accurate and not too hard to achieve it. But it is the others that demand a specific repeatable hold that present the challenge and fun when we figure it out. And yeah, they can be accurate.

    Deck

  6. I – and I don’t think I am alone here – want to have simple but quality break barrel coil springer. Diana 27 and Hw30S / R7 are the best examples that I know of. One I’ve owned three of them on-and-off, and the other I read about a lot. Contemplating about 30S becoming a page in History is like wondering if S&W revolvers are redundant these days or not. If an air gunner has a PCP collection at home, then it won’t be unreasonable to think that there is also an HW30S taking a nap somewhere in his gun safe. Plinking is a big part of air gun fun. If I had a field of a backyard and an empty soda can, then I would reach for a 30S, not a PCP.

    • Fish
      I would of probably said the same a few years back. But arthritis and a pinched nerve in my shoulder blade pretty much makes it easier to shoot a pcp. Especially so the Maximus. It’s much easier to pull a bolt back than cock even a springer with a light cocking effort.

      So as of now anyway a pcp or Co2 gun is a easy plinker for me. But don’t get me wrong I still try to have a springer in the mix when I shoot for that day.

  7. For me, spring guns are here to stay. But I am now a old timer. Nothing like a old rifle made of steel and Walnut. I grew up with iron sights and still prefer them. It puts a grin on my face to hit a soda can at 100 yards offhand with a bone stock Diana 34. It takes skill to hit with an air rifle other than a PCP. PCP’s, like compound bows, crossbows, inline scoped muzzle loaders, do much of the shooting for you !
    I also, don’t care for archery on a airgun blog. BTW, I shoot a Longbow. That takes lots of practice to be any good.

    • A rifle made of steel and Walnut is not about old times, it’s about quality and class.
      Diana 27 with tunnel iron front sight has been the best air gun in my opinion. A Diana 34, again with tunnel iron front sight, would be a good friend to that one.

    • Greg
      I can see where PA might think that running a bow and arrow blog in the mix of the air gun blog might pull other shooters into airguns. Which I’m sure it does. But I still think a separate blog for the bow and arrow is needed. I like bow and arrow but I like airguns more. 🙂

  8. I am writing this, because EMS was mentioned in the video. With the introduction of the EMS, Diana changed the excellent T06 trigger with N.tec-T06 trigger, which I think was a downgrade. I believe that trigger change was done so that the coil spring could be changeable with gas ram – if I am not mistaken. And all that compromise was done for a gas ram powerplant that does not exist yet – again, if I am not mistaken. Top of it all off, despite its plastic parts, the EMS ended up being more expensive than the 34. A classic 34 with tunnel front iron sights would be cheaper if she were produced again.
    Diana, please bring back the 27 with tunnel iron front sight, and I will shut up.

  9. Think about how the times have changed. When I was young and in the country on vacation I would grab my Winchester 1894 lever action BB rifle and I was gone all day carrying that rifle all over the place. No co2 or air pumps needed.
    Think a kid can do that today? If you are not hidden in your back yard with that rifle the police will be knocking on your parents door with you in hand.
    The need for all day shooters like springers and pumpers has disappeared ‘for the most part’. We need to be quiet and hidden these days. I think the interest in airguns, as well as real firearms has faded in the minds of our young people these days unless the opportunity to get involved is right at hand. like shooting clubs and such. They can “Shoot” anything they want … on line …. in war games !
    More complicated ( PCP ) airguns are easier to manage at home and can be quiet. Not to mention much easier to shoot.
    I think the market for simple self contained airguns has shrunk considerably and these hard times have not helped.
    And I really liked that 1894 two stage cocking lever.. Half on open, half on close. The Model 25 pump was not bad either for a young guy and they were not a pain in the butt to load and operate like a brake barrel. But we only plinked and power was not a big thing. We mostly just tried to hit something, not center punch it.

    I don’t know what percentage of air gunners are bloggers on the subject. I imagine its small and limited to knowledgeable people who are somewhat serious shooters to say the least and are aware of all the airgun options and PCP’s are the future for them.

    I believe we are fond of the airguns of the past, especially the good ones and are overjoyed to see modern technology jump in and enhance those models but there are simply not enough of us to support new products like that.

    Now I thought the variable pump PCP’s like the Seneca Aspen would take off like gangbusters but perhaps they are considered a bit too bulky? And servicing PCP’s has become more convenient. I don’t go carrying mine all day so the bulk has not bothered me. Having it ready to go and keeping it there all the time hooked me.

    Now how about this for thinking out of the box. A springer or piston that lets go at the end of the compression stroke and charges a small chamber that holds the air until the trigger is pulled. A spring powered PCP !! With variable power depending on the amount of strokes. Possible ?
    Bob M

    • My first was a Daisy 1894 Spittin image. 1964. I spent as much time as possible with it. It never broke. I wish I still had it.
      Then a Crosman 760, Sheridan Blue Streak,Benjamin 342, FWB 124, in that order. I loved them all. I still can’t settle on just one.

      • Greg,
        When we were young there was nothing like cable TV and the internet to occupy our time.
        Outside all day, and someone usually carried a portable radio for entertainment. There was always new and better airguns to be had. I still have my 1894 and 4 or so versions of it. The optional scope and side mount I have for it are hard to find.. Just plastic but it looked ‘Cool”
        Bob M

  10. Tyler,

    The current manufacturers should strive to make a spring piston (either gas or steel) that would appeal to the whole family not just a niche (shooters seeking velocity). Marketers should shift the attention of the market to genteel airguns that will be easy to use all day and hit the target. Look across the Atlantic there are continuing sales of airguns that CANNOT exceed 12 fpe yet their users are satisfied.

    Siraniko

        • True Siraniko, but lower costs usually mean less quality.

          But if the cost/quality of the product meets your needs/expectations then it is a good purchase! 🙂

          My son bought himself a Crosman break-barrel… plastic stock, plastic barrel (with a metal tube, lousy trigger. He used it a couple of times (less than a tin of pellets) and it has been sitting in the back of the cupboard for over 20 years.

          I’m very fond of my Weihrauchs, think they are excellent value for the price.

          Cheers!
          Hank

    • The reality is that these guns (the lower power springers) do not sell in the same volume that the powerful stuff does. With that said, you do have a number of lower power guns that have stood the test of time (R7/HW30S and HW50S are two examples). Conceptually, a piston gun that cocks and recoils like those lower power guns, but produces 1000 fps in .177 with lead and 800 fps in .22 with lead, now that would be something special and likely do very well.

      • Tyler,

        The marketeers were the one that dug this hole leading to velocity. (resulting in poor accuracy from the vibration). Somebody above must redirect the marketeers to a new direction leading to reasonable airguns in the market. True there is only a small market for it now, but I believe if Marketing does a proper job of it they can create and expand it to the wider public leading to better sales.

        Siraniko

  11. FM’s wuthless two cents: so far, enjoying all 3 systems found in Casa FM – spring, PCP, CO2. Each has its pros and cons. Each has its particular enjoyable features, conveniences and challenges. Hopefully, not yet done adding to the mix – maybe a gas ram down the road. So FM’s hope is all models and types will continue to be produced, but with an emphasis in quality and durability, perhaps ever-increasing simplicity of maintenance. Believe if they build them, the customers will come but it also requires educating and engaging continuing generations of air gun shooters and hunters. Final thought: don’t want to be around when all fun, wholesome activities have become extinct.

  12. What’s killing spring guns are companies that sell and promote trash rifles from Gamo, Crosman, Hatsan, Etc. There are plenty of springer sales, but people are put off by trash and assume that is how they work.

    • So what do you tell the customer that can’t afford a $400+ springer? Used to have a great asset in the Diana 34 when it was $220 or so. But now, those price points are gone for anything made in Germany. I agree that a lot of people get put off by issues with some of the lower price guns, but I tend to think that comes from a certain brand that pushes the use of lead free ammo. Not only are customers unable to hit their targets with that ammo, but they also are put off by the loud crack that comes from breaking the speed of sound. I think that is a bigger issue than the quality of those guns, because most of the time, they perform just fine at typical pesting distances once the right pellet is found.

      • Tyler,
        Bad ammo is definitely part of it. The other part is gas pistons. Like the Hatsan 95 can be made pretty good, if it has a spring. With a gas ram it’s always going to be harsh until it fails. I’m pretty active in a reddit airgun group, and you might be suprised how many people save up the couple more bucks for a hw50 over a Gamo once they see the results. Basically airgun 101 over there, but people are buying springs in good numbers.

  13. Tyler,

    I like the old open sights. I also like peep sights. I have an HMX1000X in .357 and a couple of other PCPs, which means I have a compressor, CF tank and a couple of hand pumps.

    There is just something about a decent sproinger that you can just grab and go. Where I live, 50 yards are pretty normal. 100 yards can be very difficult. More often than not, a sproinger does just fine.

    • RR,

      I’d bet that 99% of pellets are shot at targets closer than 30 yards – well within the range of a decent springer.

      PCP, springer or multi-pump… love them all equally!

      Hank

      • Hank,

        I have to agree with you on the range in which most pellets are used, at least on this side of the pond. Where airguns have been in use for a long time, the range is going to be greater.

    • I don’t disagree RR. To be clear, my thoughts that spring guns are dead does not mean they are irrelevant or unimportant. Heck, I just shot an FT match this weekend with one of my TX200’s. It just means that I don’t think we are going to see a ton of innovation in this space….but I suspect that is going to be proven wrong before long, and I will be happy to see that when it comes. For me, I just don’t know what that is right now. Fingers crossed that manufacturers are paying attention and working hard to bring springers into the 21st century.

      • Tyler,

        I have seen some little innovations here and there that could add up to quite a revolutionary sproinger. The problem becomes patents. You have this one innovation over here, but they have a horrible trigger, yadayadayada. I am not against patents, as I would want my ideas to be protected, but they can prevent certain combinations being tried out.

        Now that TCFKAC has Ed Schultz working for them again, maybe they will turn him loose with some money. I think that there is more that can be done. Look at the Webley Paradigm hybrid.

        • There can be creative solutions to all things. Personally, I feel like what is often times missing with most of the budget spring/gas ram rifles is the trigger. Most of the time, they are plenty accurate with the right pellet, but the 6 lbs trigger pull makes that accuracy harder to attain than it needs to be.

          Time will tell, I know there are a lot of folks at a number of companies exploring new possibilities with springers/gas rams, so it’s a matter of time….and money. Either way, there will be interesting stuff for us to talk about for years to come.

          • For sure! If TCFKAC ever figures out how to make a sproinger trigger, they could put out something nice. Shootski talks about how great those ASP20’s of his are, but that is pretty much his experience with sproingers.

            Something I would like to see a whole lot more of is the Theoben adjustable gas spring. I know the main problem with them has been people with no sense pumping them up to see just how fast they can go. Then they destroy the piston seal.

            Me, I would want to start at around 14 FPE and slowly bring it down to where it is real sweet. When I find my round tuit, I am going to start shortening the spring on my Webley/Hatsan Tomahawk.

  14. B.B./Tyler,
    Thank You Both for this one. I found this very interesting. I liked hearing both of your thoughts on the springer. Myself, I don’t think they are done. I too think there is more to be had out of them. Something about the idea of a self contained, always ready to shoot gun. With PCP, I really thought the self contained pump would have took off better and with more manufactures joining in on that idea. If the price of high pressure compressors ever come down more, then with that hurdle being removed, maybe the PCP can win out.

    Doc

  15. I have four break barrel air rifles. Three springers and one gas piston. The springers are a Crosman Phantom .177, a Daisy 1100S, and a Hatsan older model Aloha. My gas piston model us a Crosman older model F4 (without a shrouded barrel). These are all very cheap air rifles, and I have kind of a love/hate relationship with them. The difficulty in shooting tight groups compared to my CO2 and multipump guns had been a work in progress. But, I am a stubborn old goat, and it us starting to pay off. The Alpha spring piston gun is a reduced power gun rated at 500 fps, so is easier to shoot than my magnum level Phantom for sure. I am getting better with that Phantom, and for sure the F4. Most shooting had been 7-10 yards. I won’t be giving up on these break barrels any time soon. I shoot for fun and do night ratting and pest shooting. I often shoot 3 shot and 5 shot groups and may shoot 50-60 pellets with an air gun every day. Yesterday, it was with F4, which I am finally getting some consistency from. When I can shoot tight groups at 7-8 yards, then I’ll move out. But, I often find my guns prefer wadcutters, and these are shorter range pellets. Here is a 3 shot group a 8 yards I shot yesterday. This is the best group, but the other groups were pretty tight also. For those if you who ate accomplished break barrel marksmen, you scoff at my group, but for me, and thus type of airgun, groups like this ate a revelatuon.

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