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Webley Senior

Overbarrel cocking air pistols

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Webley Senior
Webley Senior.

This report covers:

  • Popular
  • “Simulated recoil”?
  • Triggers
  • Cocking
  • Accuracy
  • Weihrauch HW 45
  • Magnum
  • Two power levels
  • Summary

Today we will look at a category of air pistols that has been with us for almost a century — the overbarrel cocking pistol. I selected for the first image my Webley Senior slant grip pistol that was made sometime between 1949 and 1955.

Popular

Webley first made these pistols back in 1924 and they were with us as Webley Tempests as recently as 2019. They were the most powerful air pistols of their day and even to the end they were powerful spring-piston pistols. The slant grip models are perhaps the most-recognized of the type, though the straight-grip pistols that proceeded them are just as powerful.

Webley Senior straight grip
Webley straight grip pistol.

“Simulated recoil”?

The piston in these pistols is drawn forward when the airgun is cocked — away from the shooter’s hand. When the gun fires the piston comes back at the shooter’s hand. I have read some gun writers who state that this simulates the recoil of a firearm, but it doesn’t. The gun just pulses in your hand upon firing.

Triggers

Webley pistols have had adjustable triggers and non-adjustable triggers over the decades, but the “adjustment” was quite limited in most cases. My slant grip Senior has no adjustment at all.

I do find that the older triggers wear in to a very smooth release. The trigger on my straight grip was/is a long single-stage pull that was pretty good. I say was/is because reader RidgeRunner is now caring for her. My slant grip trigger is heavy but not too creepy. I think in time it will smooth out to become like the trigger in the straight grip.

Be careful if your Webley trigger has an adjustment that reduces the contact area of the sear. I think there are some like that and you don’t want a trigger that’s dangerous.

Cocking

For years I have tried to explain how to cock an overbarrel pistol but that’s difficult to do in print. I have wanted to make a short video to show you how this is done and thanks to reader 45Bravo, Go-Pro cameras and iMovie, I now can. This is how it’s done.

Once you get the hang of it cocking one of these pistols isn’t that hard. But you have to know the secret of positioning the hand.

Stock up on Air Gun Ammo

Accuracy

You wouldn’t think these pistols can be accurate and with most pellets they aren’t, but when you find the one or two pellets they like, they will surprise you!

Webley Baracuda 15 group
The slant grip Webley put five H&N Baracuda 15s into 0.951-inches at 10 meters. Not bad!

Weihrauch HW 45

There is another overbarrel cocker that’s still for sale today — the Weihrauch HW 45. This one was the magnum of spring piston air pistols when it first came out and it still is. Many of us know this pistol as Beeman’s P1. It cocks the same way the Webleys do, with what looks like the pistol’s hammer being the upper slide and barrel release.

Magnum

This one is a magnum of spring-piston air pistols. Beeman touted it as being capable of shooting 600 f.p.s. in .177-caliber, but I never saw that in my testing. I did see lightweight  Hobby pellets get up to the 550s, and a P1 that a reader of my Airgun Letter newsletter modified to shoot 0.125-inch/3.175mm ball bearings hit 664 f.p.s. in my tests.

P1 ball-bearing muzzle
The muzzle of a special Beeman P1 barrel designed to shoot eighth-inch steel ball bearings. The maker claimed 800 f.p.s. but 664 f.p.s. was the highest I saw in testing.

Two power levels

A feature the HW 45 has that the Webley’s don’t copy, to the best of my knowledge, is dual power levels.  That was shown in the video. I usually cock it to the top level, and in testing I’ve found the impact points of the two levels are far apart. I think that’s due as much to the pistol’s recoil as anything because this one does recoil.

Summary

Overbarrel-cocking air pistols are a unique sector of our hobby. For some of us they are the only experience we have with air pistols.

Whatever your experience I hope you have enjoyed this report, and for those who didn’t know the secret of cocking them, I hope the video helped.

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.
See Full Bio

62 thoughts on “Overbarrel cocking air pistols”

  2. Tom,

    It makes sense to put them fingers of your hand palm side up as that you don’t have to make it require additional grip strength just to cock the pistol. I wonder if it would be easier to cock if you held the pistol pointing down?

    Siraniko

    • Siraniko: The only trick I have discovered with my Beeman P-1 is the use of a knee or upper thigh. One can rest the bottom of the gun, the heel of the pistol grip or under the barrel structure (is better) and then using that as a stable place for the fulcrum (hinge) to then swing the arm palm up (as described above) in an outward arc.

      When I am shooting at my table in the basement range, I find this most helpful and obviates the necessity to stand or push back from the shooting table to cock the over lever. As I age, that’s a good thing. (Note: When i was much younger, I’d stand and shoot and break the thing apart, so to speak almost like I was breast stroking in a pool. Of course, I was a tad stronger, but would still get some tennis elbow as a result.

      I LIKE the over lever concept, but it does have its unique demands.

  3. BB,
    That’s a great video for those who have one of these pistols but are not familiar with that method.
    I had a Beeman P1 (HW45) in .177 caliber; and I had a BSA 240, also in .177 caliber.
    Both of them were OK, but got sold off, as well as my 1980 Beeman Webley Tempest (.177).
    Of the three, that is the one I missed the most; thankfully, while he was still alive, my Dad passed on to me his Beeman Webley Tempest, which he had me buy for him back in 1981. While not as powerful as either the P1 or the BSA 240, it spits out JSB RS 7.33g pellets at 440 fps with good accuracy…thanks to having a better trigger than the pistol it replaced. This one will not ever get sold as it’s now a family heirloom.
    I’ll eventually pass it on to my younger brother, since his two sons, my nephews, as both shooters.
    Meanwhile, it’s just a fun little pistol, and it’s one of the few I can shoot indoors on my 5-meter range.
    (It’s odd how, oftentimes, when I get a chance to shoot, it’s dark out…or raining…or both!)
    I’ve got some little spinners that are just over a half inch in diameter; the Tempest flips them with ease
    …provided the guy behind the trigger does his part, of course. 😉
    Thank you for an excellent and nostalgic report!
    Blessings to you,
    dave

  4. “This one was the magnum of spring pistol air pistols when it first came out and it still is”. In paragraph under Weihrauch HW45. I suppose it was ment to be “spring piston”.
    By the way the upside down palm method is the first thing every WH45 owner should learn. After four of them in my life (one is still in the closet) I think I am entitled to have a strong opinion on this subject.

    • Yogi
      The HW 45 is not really a hand pincher since the upper part doesn’t really need force to come down and close. The force is applied when opening it. On the other hand the pneumatic HW75… This IS a pincher.

    • Yogi,

      I canna say about the HW45 or the BSA as I have never had the pleasure of even shooting them, but as for the Webleys, I truly do not understand how you would manage to pinch your hands unless you fired them with your hand wrapped around the compression tube and the barrel came around and slapped your knuckles for doing something foolish. Most sproinger rifles will have the barrel come slapping up if you pull the trigger while they are cocked.

      Are you speaking from such experience?

  7. Once upon a time I had an old Webley MK 1. That was when I was a young’un and it eventually disappeared, never to be seen again.

    A while back I had a UK Tempest and because it would not shoot with my Izzy, I foolishly sent it to live somewhere else. This was in my “golly gee whiz it has to be accurate” days.

    I was then honored to have BB’s straight grip Webley Senior come for a stay at RRHFWA. It hangs on the wall next to my Webley Service Mk 2, both of which were made in the early to mid ‘thirties.

    Recently I acquired a Webley Junior of their first run.

    I sure do wish I had my MK 1 and my Tempest back.

    P.S. – As pointed out by Bill earlier
    Weihrauch HW 45
    Second sentence
    This one was the magnum of spring pistol (spring-piston) air pistols when it first came out and it still is.

  8. Being a wimp, before I figured out BB’s (and likely our British predecessors) technique, I would brace the Webley against my thigh.

    There is a pretty good chance I will be trying to acquire an older Webley MK 1 at the NC Airgun Show in Newton this weekend.

    https://www.tmacsairgunservice.com/

    If you have never been to an airgun show, you should really go.

    Unfortunately, unless this one has a revival, it will likely pass into history as did the Roanoke show.

  9. Thanks for the well-done report. Great job on the video! I loved the music in the introduction. I have often wondered how the kick (or pulse for the Webley) affects holding and the accuracy of spring-piston pistols. Is there an equivalent of the artillery hold (specifically for pistols) needed?

      • BB
        Strange thing. I remember a blog where a guy called BB described such a thing. He had learned it from his army commanding officer using a 1911 45acp… Trigger finger, thumb and the rest of the fingers just for the ride. It sounded very close to the rifles’ artillery hold.

        • Bill,

          I ALMOST put that in my comment, but that was a little different than the artillery hold. That was more what a guy has to train himself to do if he wants to score well. The artillery hold is just a way of letting the rifle be itself.

          BB

          • Thanks for the replies Bill and BB. I do remember reading about the technique that BB learned from his commanding officer regarding shooting the 1911. I have been employing it ever since I read that. It does seem to work. I usually attempt to learn or figure out the reasoning behind such things. And I agree with everything both of you have said. I think that that technique is probably a good one to use when shooting a pistol of most any type.

  10. I’d always wanted a pistol for casual plinking but Canadian regulations class any pistol over 500fps as a restricted firearm that can only be used at approved shooting ranges.

    Over the years I’ve had the opportunity to try numerous Co2, spring and muti-pump air pistols and could never manage better than minute-of-a-gallon-paint-can “accuracy” with them.

    I was pistolless until I lucked into a SSP target pistol which changed everything. Since then I’ve become to proud owner of a couple of PCP pistols that I enjoy immensely. I’m still a lousy shot with pistols but they are great fun especially when limited to shooting indoors in inclement weather.

    To those who struggled with old air pistols I’d suggest looking at the new PCPs, there are some reasonably priced good shooters on the market.

    Happy Friday!

    • “…pistols but they are great fun especially when limited to shooting indoors in inclement weather.”

      Hank, yes, for sure, that is one of their best attributes! 😉

  11. BB

    I have never shot a P1 but I have thought its cocking design was similar to my P17. My P17 cocks on closing rather than opening. Cocking effort is considerable but likely much easier than the Webley. A golf glove makes cocking painless.

    Your videos are a valuable teaching tool.

    Deck

  13. Keep making those videos Tom, and you’ll turn into a genuine celebrity whose opinion and advice matter to FM and no doubt to others. The opinion/advice of the typical sock-puppet entertainment industry “celebrity?” Not so much. This is strictly FM’s opinion.

    One of these days should add an air pistol to the arsenal, in addition to the 38T, and given the hyperwet hot weather we’ve been having it would at least allow for some indoor shooting fun.

    • Try one of the Crosman bolt operated CO2 pistols. I have been addicted to resealing the Mark I and II, but my understanding is that the current models are just as good.

      Better yet, do you want to try one? Shipping is only $20 bucks or so each way in the Continental US.

  14. OK everyone, I found my round tuit and I am going to start on my first reseal of a Crosman 160.

    The 160 uses 2 CO² powerlets/cartridges/capsules and is known to be very loud and use a lot of gas. But I’m thinking of its close cousin, the Crosman 180, which only uses one CO² cart. Can parts from a 180 be used in a 160 to make it more efficient and not significantly sacrifice too much velocity? Or are there other (easy) mods I can make to increase the efficiency of the 160? I’m NOT a machinist, by the way.

    While all of you mull that over, I am going to fashion a valve tool and get ready to tackle this project. If successful, I will move on to reseal my daughter’s AR2078.

  15. BB,
    I remembered your Commanding Officer 45 hold (CO- Hold) when I first shot my Stainless Enhanced Colt 45 Auto.
    Bottom two fingers in the air and middle just holding the pistol up. I was shooting at a steel plate welded to a wire fence ‘T’ post.
    It was so far away that the bullet had dropped about two feet from the target plate aiming point and I repeatedly hit the T post holding it up in the ground dead center. Believe it was intended to be a rifle target.

    I could not believe I was actually shooting that straight. Was it the hold or the 45? I kind of think both, but I would reserve the hold for target shooting only. Perhaps it forces you to concentrate on your trigger pull?
    May be kind of odd for a quick follow-up shot but who knows, practice makes perfect. A compensator might help there.

    • Bob M,

      A Compensator/Barrel Porting might help reduce the muzzle flip but the thumb on the Gas Pedal (thumb safety) works much better. It helps to have it be an ambidextrous one since your Off Side hand usually needs more help.
      Give it a try.

      shootski

      • Shootski,
        I tried the thumb on the “Gas Pedal” hold with three different 45 airguns with three different safety designs. It does not work for me. My hands might be too small.
        The first two I tried forced me to reach forward with my thumb and it resulted in pulling my middle finger too far out from under the trigger guard and being the only finger gripping the pistol grip in the Officer Hold made it too unstable. I was unable to wrap it around the grip.
        The third 45 had a custom wider, longer safety lever and in addition to the problem above I had to position my hand a little higher to rest my thumb on it and it resulted in my failure to compress the grip safety.
        It does work fine with a full hand and two hand grip. I can see how it would help reduce recoil but then we lose whatever works with the Officer Hold for increased accuracy.

        One other thing I believe I did when shooting was to not to lock my arm straight. Being slightly bent at the elbow may have permitted the pistol to recoil straight back some.

        Thanks for the tip.

        • Bob M,

          Sorry it didn’t work for you.
          I keep forgetting that my glove size is XXL+ and even then my tumb and fingertips soon make holes in the best of gloves…the Paraloft hated me for wearing out/through my NOMEX® gloves too fast.
          My Gunny shooting instructor however said my hands were perfect for full size 1911s.

          shootski

  17. @Roamin Gecko – you are chanting as your leader, the great enabler, trained you.

    Nice to see an overlever article. Mr. BB Pelletier wrote up the P17 so effectively that it became my first airgun as an adult, back in 2008. (He enabled me like a pro!) The P17 is a little different than today’s report, it is a single stroke pneumatic, pressurizing on closing the barrel to the action. As such, it can pinch the tender belly fat if you hold it too close as you compress that air. Super little gun, cheap and very accurate for the price.

    But now, there are 9 airguns in the room I am sitting in. and all the pistols are sleeping under the bed. They keep following me home from garage sales!

    Regards from the deep south,
    Bud

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