Crosman 1088 – Part 1

by B.B. Pelletier

I was asked by several people to review the Crosman 1088. In fact, I think the requests date back over a year. I thought this was just a modern extension of the 1008; but, where the 1008 is mostly metal on the outside, the 1088 is mainly plastic.

This is an 8-shot CO2 pellet and BB pistol with a revolving action housed in a pistol frame. The steel barrel is rifled, so we can expect some accuracy from pellets. Owners rate it above 4 stars, which is a good indication that it’s worthwhile.

Being plastic, the gun is light…just over a pound. The grip is quite large, so the gun feels large, yet the double-action trigger-pull is very light and smooth.

A CO2 cartridge fits inside the right grip, which pops off the gun. The winding key that tightens the cartridge is enclosed by the grip, so nothing shows from the outside.


Pop off the right grip panel to install a CO2 cartridge.

Loading
To load the 8-shot clip, the slide is flipped up at the back, exposing a pin that the circular clip sits on. The clip is loaded by pushing pellets or BBs in the back side, and you can load either one without regard to anything. You cannot mistake which side of the clip is the back because the front is the only side that has a hole to fit over the pin. I was surprised to find only one clip packed with the gun though. Since this is an action pistol I think you’ll want at least another 3-pack of clips to keep going.


To load, flip up the top of the slide and insert an 8-shot clip.

The clips have 8 chambers with ridges running down the inside to hold the smaller steel BBs securely. Naturally, the gun will be more accurate with lead pellets, but the lighter BBs may give the highest velocity. I say may because Crosman Silver Eagle hollowpoint pellets weigh 4.8-grains and steel BBs weigh 5.1 grains. That slightly lighter weight coupled with fitting the bore tighter may allow the non-lead Silver Eagles to be the fastest. I’ll certainly check that for you.

I was supposed to check something else with this gun. Several readers say the CO2 mechanism will eventually leak after several cartridges have been installed. I thought they might be over-tightening the cartridges at installation, but I promised to have a look at it for them. If I’ve made a mistake in this, please correct me so I can check for the right things.

Accessories
This pistol has a single Weaver notch on a rail under the slide. Accessories with Weaver rails (like flashlights and lasers) can be fitted to the gun. Unfortunately, Crosman’s own laser has a 3/8″ dovetail that will not fit, but there are plenty that do. There’s no possibility of fitting optical sights to this pistol.

Sights
The sights are a square notch in the rear and a square ramp on the front. There are no dots or fiberoptics, which I think is the best way for pistol sights to be if you want sighting precision. The rear sight can slide left and right for adjustment. Two very small Allen screws lock it in place.

Action
The main way to shoot the pistol is double-action, but it does permit single-action operation, too. I’ll try both ways for velocity and accuracy.


This pistol can be fired single-action, with the hammer back as shown here. Double-action is the preferred way to shoot, however.

126 Responses to “Crosman 1088 – Part 1”

  • Anonymous Says:

    Hi BB. Sorry to say but the Crosman 1008 also has an all plastic outer shell. I think you’re thinking of the Crosman C20, which is the all metal version of the same gun design.

  • Dr. G. Says:

    Matt#61,

    You don’t overlook anything that you read – you could be a librarian if you wanted to be.

    Although I did not see an answer from B.B. re. my question, Whiscombe Himself emailed me today and recommended Sportsmatch mounts. While I am unfamiliar with the brand, from what I saw on the internet they look to be of superior quality and design. If any of you blog readers have experience with them, I would be interested in hearing about it.

    No doubt in my mind that Leapers scopes provide the Best Value [as defined by the equation of {What You Get} divided by {Cost}]. I have about (5) 6-24×56 side-adustable Leapers scopes, and about 7 other scopes of various makes which no longer see service on my better air rifles.

    I have tried the Leapers 8-32 (and other brands’ 32 powered scopes) and found that these scopes (all under $300) are too dark above 24 power to be desirable. Further, I only shoot airguns at under 50 yards, and so really do not need more power.

    If I did need more magnification, then my pocketbook would be in trouble, because in my limited experience one has to pay over $600 to get a Nikko or Bushnell scope if one wants to see acceptably at these higher powers. Once, I owned such a Nikko scope for a few days.

    I do not know how to send photos through this blog, but I am sure that this Whiscombe 80 looks just like the other 56 that he has made over the years. His internet site has photos of his products, and my understanding is that, like Henry Ford, the choices are limited to what the designer has deemed appropriate.

    Personally, I am far more interested in the functional aspects than the visual aspects of an air gun. Hence, I have white insulating tape stuck all over the metal parts of my Condor to make it feel more comfortable, and some ghetto looking duct taped “quietting apparatuses” at the ends of some other air rifles and air pistols. I find enjoyment in the feel, use, and design of these machines, not the appearance.

    - Dr. G.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    1008,

    You are right – I was actually thinking of the Crosman CB-40 and got it mixed up with the 1008 RepeatAir, which was a plastic gun.

    Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Dr. G.,

    I did answer you. I said to use medium-height scope rings. The manufacturer doesn’t make a big difference, as long as you buy a name brand. Leapers, Sportsmatch and AirForce are all made to the same quality level.

    B.B.

  • Vince Says:

    BB, how ya feeling?

  • Anonymous Says:

    Dr. G

    I’ve had half a dozen sets of Sportsmatch rings over the years. They were sold for many years as the Beeman branded rings. The Leapers Accushot are every bit as good for about a quarter of the price.

    Derrick

  • Dr. G. Says:

    B.B.,

    Thank you very much for answering my question twice. That is what you get for being sick :).

    I hope that you feel better very soon.

    Being in the business that I am in, I know that you have been suffering a lot. Also, as some of the blog readers have alluded to, unfortunately the potential for further, surprisingly intense pain hangs over your groin area like the Sword of Damocles until such time that you pass the stone or know that you have destroyed it.

    Good luck and Godspeed.

    Derrick,

    Thank you, yes, I have also been using the Accushot rings with success. You (and B.B.) have helped confirm my thoughts and saved me money. Useful blog, eh?

    - Dr. G.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Vince,

    I have been taking a mixture of olive oil and lemon juice three times a day for four days now and last night things started happening. I am getting rid of stones and parts of stones all the time now. There is no pain. Apparently the olive oil is softening the stones and I cannot feel them come out.

    More importantly the back pain that was almost crippling yesterday morning is now down to a dull ache. That’s the biggest blessing, because I can sit at the computer again. I was able to ride my bike this morning, which is a big part of my daily routine.

    I’m back to 90 percent as of this time. Thanks for asking.

    B.B.

  • wayne Says:

    B.B.

    YEAH!!! Glad your feeling better and they are breaking down! I bet the lawnmower cabbage helped the olive oil and lemon juice.. Greens are important!!

    Still, take it easy for awhile…

    Wayne,

  • Anonymous Says:

    Wayne,

    Here is a slow moving review:

    http://www.bentaylorandson.co.uk/images/agw_1207.pdf

    Here is the video again for anyone interested:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYmkfhz83f8&feature=related

    and yes Wayne, I have called my local library to see if they have a similar issuepolicy… : )

    (must copy and paste)

    Volvo

  • wayne Says:

    Volvo,

    I’m impressed!

    And thanks, I was thinking of the .22 cal for the pink slip race… I’m too much attached and unknowing if a replacement is possible for my walnut stock .177 Air Arms S410.. It does so much better on number of shots than the specs say it should..

    I’ve got the older AAs310 in .22 as a back up, until I can replace the AAs410 .22 which I’m pretty sure you’ll win! I paid more for my walnut stock AAs410 .22 cal than you did for the synthetic stock FX Whisper, but that’s cool, having a crack at something new is worth it.. And just a contest will tell us a lot about both guns.

    Based on the results from those adds, you’re a shoe in to win.. Will you come to the range? I’ll pay your gas costs..

    On the old Dianas, yes they can be so sweet, that’s why I’m going for so many of them and fixing them up. I’ve got two of the 25s also..

    I’m wondering if I refinish the stocks on them, if it will reduce the collector value… some are pretty beat up, with a flaky finish. I sanded down and refinished the win 423 last night, and it looks much better.. But I hope I didn’t lower it’s value..

    Again, why does it shoot the JSB 8.4 faster than Beeman Trophy 7.88… and 8.2 gr. RWS R 10 Match?

    Wayne,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range

  • Anonymous Says:

    B.B.

    Glad that you’re improving. This is a useful blog indeed to hear about another benefit of olive oil which has so many uses starting with spaghetti.

    Dr. G I pay particular attention to this blog. As for the librarianship, reading can be a disqualifier. A circulation manager once reamed me out for reading the books instead of shelving them, but there were plenty of ways to work around her, he he. I have wondered about the benefits of higher power for scopes. Magnification obviously helps, but beyond a certain point, it seems to make things jumpy and harder to control. One person claimed that he discovered the reason for some shot dispersion when some phenomenal high power showed how his pulse was moving the rifle. I wonder, in fact, if higher power serves as a kind of crutch; people were making incredible shots when only lower power was available. B.B. mentioned that some Civil War sniper hit a target at about a mile with a 4X scope, and I don’t think that the current military scopes go over 10X for their 1000 yard shots. There’s some compelling wisdom I’ve heard that you want to go for the lowest power at which you can see the target for the increased clarity and resolution.

    Matt61

  • Randy-in-VA Says:

    BB:

    I have a newer 1088. It’s my “go to” plnking pistol. I’ve had it for over a year and have had no problems with seals. (One drop Pellgunoil on each CO2 cylinder.) My clips use a fairly powerful magnet inside the center of the clip to hold BBs in place. There are some interesting effects when I dump all ten out at once into a pile of BBs.

    It likes the harder Crosman pellets better. It chews up softer (all lead) pellets, gumming up the action. I had forgotten that the rear sight was adjustable. I consider it to be more of an area weapon. Ten clips is about right for one CO2 cylinder, plus or minus a few based on temperature.

    It’s main drawback is that it is LOUD. I once had the local constables visit me, thinking that it was a firearm. The other drawback is that you need to pause between shots to prevent the cylinder from over-cooling.

  • Tracy Says:

    BB,
    I like that black more than may 2 silver 1088s. Could you test some premier heavies for me. Mine, using premier heavies, can hit 8inch targets out to 50yards. I mounted a truglo rear sight on the one pistol, big improvement. I cut down both grips to the piercing screw to further the look of the Ruger Kp345. Please try the accuracy at 20 yards instead of 10, that’s where it really shines. I had a jam on one of them in the trigger mechanism once, I called it excess lead build up. I also like to run the Co2 under ever so slightly warm water for 3 seconds, just to give it that oomph. I’ve had mine since December 06, so far they have around 1400rnds on them. By far my favorite air pistol.
    Shadow express dude

  • Anonymous Says:

    As I think about the wonderful benefits of PCPs, I’m always held back by the hassle of keeping it refilled. A scuba tank is convenient, but it means you’re tied to heavy equipment. It’s hard to envision transporting a tank even to a shooting range; the whole system of rifle and tank are reminiscent of an artillery piece. The pump is more portable, and I have nothing against a bit of exercise. But I can’t see interspersing this particular type of exercise with the shooting that I like to do.

    As a solution, what’s in the way of imitating CO2 technology and making compressed air powerlets that you can snap onto a gun? The air is more available than carbon dioxide. Compressing it can’t be that difficult since it is done routinely by PCP users already. So, the only remaining barrier is getting it into the container, and that can’t be any more difficult than the process for CO2. As far as cost, I would certainly be willing to pay a price comparable to the CO2 powerlets that I consume now for shooting technology that is more limited than a PCP.

    One could appear as Pancho Villa with a hand-tooled leather bandolier filled with shiny air powerlets! Someone like Wayne could make a killing as a bulk supplier of cheap air.

    Anyway, if everything has already been thought of regarding airguns, I suppose there is some reason why this scheme wouldn’t work, but I can’t think what it is.

    Matt61

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Randy7,

    Thanks for the magnet information. I looked at the mag but never loaded it, so I guess I have yet to find that out.

    And no seal problem? I hope the person or people who had the problem weigh in before this test is over.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Tracy/SED,

    I will try to shoot at 20 yards for you. Remember that it IS December now. I live in Texas, and sometimes it can get up into the ’80s, so I hope the weather cooperates with us.

    I will also try Kodiaks for you.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Matt,

    Your compressed air cannister idea has been done. It’s called an AirForce rifle.

    You may say they are larger than you want, but they need to be for the amount of air they must hold. CO2 tanks are so small because they contain liquid CO2 that’s evaporating into gas as you shoot.

    If we could get liquid air, we could do the same thing, but I doubt that’s going to happen anything soon.

    B.B.

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    BB,
    How about liquid nitrogen cartridges? I see the stuff on FoodNetwork all the time being used for nouveau cuisine type things. No idea about the efficiency, just and idea…I like Matt’s word picture, though:).

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    BG_Farmer,

    I have tried liquid nitrogen cartridges. Back when I was in the Army I had access to nitrogen cartridges that are about the same size as 12-gram CO2 cartridges. I used them in a Daisy 200 pistol.

    They didn’t last as long as CO2 cartridges. The power seemed about the same.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB,

    I just saw on youtube something about exploding airsoft BBs. What are they and where can you buy them?

    -Joe B.

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    BB,
    Is there anything airgun related you haven’t done:)? Liquid air should be about the same, since nitrogen is the largest component by far, right? It might still be worthwhile if the nitrogen was less sensitive to temperature variations.

    Volvo,
    I just watched the FX video: you must be getting very excited. The guy with the Monsoon does better on clays than I do with a 12G:). Wonder how many takes…

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Joe,

    I’ve not heard of exploding airsoft BBs. Isn’t that a gross contradiction?

    You don’t mean paintballs, do you?

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    BG_Farmer,

    It was no big deal. We used them in NBC operations and I was the NBC officer for my Troop. I managed to squirrel away a box or two. I still have aq couple laying around I think. They have screw threads on the small end like AirSource cartridges, as I recall.

    Here are some on the web:

    https://morebeer.com/view_product/18310/102290?PHPSESSID=50f25fb72475b47a97

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    RE: Liquid Air cartridges

    Neither air nor nitrogen will liquefy at anything close to a useful pressure/temperature for an air gun. If fact the upper temperature limit at which either would liquefy is colder than dry ice. So a cartridge the size of a 12 gram CO2 filled with just compressed gas would be good for just a few shots.

    Liquefied air is also somewhat dangerous. Liquid nitrogen evaporates first leaving liquid oxygen. A very oxygen rich gas needs to be handled carefully.

    Herb

  • Ed Pikor Says:

    B.B.
    Three weeks till Christmas, I’m trying to convince myself to order an Infinity PCP, and you’re reviewing $60.00 Crossman CO2 pistols…

    It’s killing me..

    Ed

  • Anonymous Says:

    Anybody have a Daisy 2003 pistol?

    Volvo

  • Anonymous Says:

    Bg-Farmer,

    I thought they were going to sit the clays at 75 meters.

    I’d guess the Swede’s hid a good ole boy with a 12 gauge just out of sight.

    Volvo

  • Vince Says:

    BB, do you know if a Haenel 310 can shoot .177 lead balls?

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    BB/Herb,
    Oh well…thanks for the help.

    Matt,
    You made a great observation about scope power; I can tell you’ve been shooting more off the bench than on. For offhand and field positions, I’ve been thinking for a while that 3×25 would be great at 50 yards on small game and quite a distance on bigger stuff; people used to make good shots with open sights, after all. When I use one, I really hate having 2 lbs. of scope, plus I think the larger apertures and magnifications cause more problems with parallax and image quality (due to faster f/ratio) than they give in return: pupils only dilate so much. I put a cheap 4×20 on my wife’s QB88 and it works pretty well, except the ocular design is too simplistic to give great eye relief; it can be adjusted to work for one shooter, though.

    Volvo,
    With the internet, I’ve been impressed just how many good old boys the world harbors. I once came across a video link to some Swedish farmers getting their tractor out of spring mud by chaining huge logs across the wheels — a “fairly” dangerous but effective operation, and good use of available resources. I had always just assumed they would ask the government for help:).

  • kevin Says:

    Volvo,

    Thanks for the progress reports on your fx whisper. The video and write up on the whisper is very interesting. I’m getting the “bug” again for a pcp. Even read some old info from bb on the fx revolution and problems they were having with that gun’s seals. Is there a reason you didn’t go with a semi-auto fx? Are there problems with these guns? I’m very impressed with how quiet (not quite wayne) the whisper seems to be. I’m anxiously awaiting your take on this gun.

    kevin

  • kevin Says:

    B.B. & anyone else,

    I have a friend that shoots right handed but is left eye dominant (chemo for cancer).

    I want to buy a lightweight springer that is accurate (read, not too hold sensitive), shoots around 700 or more fps and can be held right handed but SCOPED for a dominant left eye. I'm envisioning a cockeyed mount that allows the scope to hangover far to the left but don't know about such a contraption or what the alternatives could be. Please stay under $1,000.00.

    Thanks in advance.

    kevin

  • kevin Says:

    B.B.,

    Forgot to say, hope the watermellon has passed through the straw. Childbirth isn’t a good comparison. Women have drugs available and spinal taps that don’t allow childbirth to be a similar pain.

    My prayers are with you for a speedy recovery without pain and recurrance.

    kevin

  • JoeG Says:

    Hia BB and friends,

    Matt61 brings up the point about self contained air units. Which I remember reading about the Saxby & Palmer Ensign Rifle. I first read about this in Air Gun Digest, and then again by you BB on the Tuesday October 2, 2007 Blog. This sounded like an awsome idea, they had a few revolvers as well. According to the Blue Book they were running at 2250 PSI and the rifle is listed at 100 FPS in .177 and 800 FPS in .22.

    Why did this concept get put on the back burner?

    JoeG from Jersey

  • JoeG Says:

    I ment to say the rifle was rated at 1000 FPS in .177, in my last post.

    JoeG from Jersey

  • JoeG Says:

    BB and friends,

    I also see another good link you have here to the Brocook cartridge.

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/01/brocock-air-cartridges.html

    This setup seems every bit as easy (or hard) as using the hand pump on my Disco.

    Ahh just think, spend an evening filling about 50 or so of these cartridges and spend the next day shooting/hunting.

    I bet the price point would be high.

    JoeG from Jersey

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    Kevin,

    Based on how weak and especially easily fatigued my dad became after a few rounds of chemo, you might want to consider CO2 or PCP’s also; easier on the scope as well. Disregard if you find it irrelevant, but the cumulative effects of chemo almost seem to sneak up on the patient — if he only recently started. My dad went through two rounds with apparently no negative results, then each one afterwards left him weaker for a longer period of time.

    Of course, every situation varies. Good thing he has a friend like you.

  • Vince Says:

    Hey, all – I just bought another youth rifle. It’s a smallish model breakbarrel with a synthetic stock, and it’s made by “Goma Precision Airguns”.

    Yes, Goma! Some Chinese outfit copied the Gamo Delta, the box, the logo, everything. A REAL knockoff, just like Motorkraft auto parts!

    I’ve never seen these before and I don’t know how this guy got them. But he’s selling them for $25 ea. Curiosity got the better of me – I just HAD to get one to see if it’s any good. BB, you know the fellow and have recommended him for parts, but I won’t say who it is. Don’t wanna infringe on Pyramyd’s business just in case they ever decide to carry the Goma Shadew, the Goma CXF, or any of the other fine Goma products that my imagination tells me HAS to be out there.

  • wayne Says:

    Kevin,

    Thanks,
    “quiet (not quite wayne)”, I hate it when the computer can’t help me spell, because they are both words.

    Matt61,

    Spare air tanks for a Condor or Talon, really do make a great package, turned down to half way, which is still “quite” a bit of power, in either gun, gives a lot of shots per fill. And one can turn up the power when needed. More power and way less costly than CO2 on the long term.

    Wayne

  • Anonymous Says:

    Kevin,

    Few reasons for not getting the semi-auto. Biggest is I use a hand pump still. I would guess with two 16 shot magazines I could empty the gun in a few minutes. I would get way too “pumped up”.

    Also I have been easing into the whole PCP thing a little at a time, and this seems like a logical addition to the two shot Raider. Keep in mind I am use to single shot Springer’s.

    Lastly, I actually e-mailed FX for their thoughts on their most quiet rifle, and they recommended the Whisper. Quiet is high on my list of priorities.

    If you’re going to use a divers tank, or buy one of the compressors – I think the semi-autos looks like it could be very entertaining.

    Volvo

  • Anonymous Says:

    So, the answer is in the chemical properties of the gases which I don’t know about. My respect for CO2 grows as a gas that fits the needs of shooters so well.

    I guess Wayne’s spare tank idea is the next best thing now. But with all of the miniaturization going on in all fields you would think this could be done somewhere, somehow with air tanks, but that would be for someone else to figure out.

    BG_Farmer, I wonder if the wave of the future in gun optics lies with military technology, as it often does, in the form of the holographic and red dot sights used overseas. As far as I can tell, they are a combination of a red dot and cross-hairs that look like the Head Up Displays HUD in fighter planes. These are supposed to be very accurate out to hundreds of yards. In other words, maybe the display is the key. I don’t know if more magnification will improve things much regardless what technology can do.

    Matt61

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB, try

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StkD0ZvdR8U&feature=related

    Joe B.
    ————————–
    Joe,

    I've not heard of exploding airsoft BBs. Isn't that a gross contradiction?

    You don't mean paintballs, do you?

    B.B.

  • DB Says:

    B.B.,
    Sorry… my pistol is an older 1008 not the 1088. They are very similar.

    DB

  • kevin Says:

    BG_Farmer,

    Understand the rationale behind suggesting a pcp or co2. My friends cancer was years ago. Lost half his face including his nose. The chemo after surgery made him left eye dominant. He's still strong as an ox at 70 years old.

    B.B. & anyone else with experience,

    Please let me know the options for how to scope a springer for a right handed shooter that is left eye dominant.

    Wayne,

    I'll be quiet for awhile and stop picking on you. We share the same frustration with technology. Can't wait until my computer can follow verbal commands. You're a great guy that tirelessly contributes terrific first hand information. Thanks.

    Volvo,

    Thanks for the insight into your choice of an FX gun. The semi-auto has captivated me. If the video link you posted is close to truthful about the report of the whisper (being shot in a library! LOL), you've accomplished your goal of owning a quiet shooting gun.

    kevin

  • Anonymous Says:

    Matt,

    RE: Optics

    Not to hard to see into future where there would be a binocular scope with cameras and a LED screen. As you point at what you want to shoot, the range is automagically compensated for, you dial in a wind number and pull the trigger. Set it up on a tripod with servo motors and there is no exposure. You “hunt” from your den in your PJs with a joystick.

    Herb

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Kevin,

    Gary Barnes made a set of left-eye scope mounts for my wife’s right-hand BRV rifle. They stuck out about 1.5 inches to the left and made the gun unwieldly to hold. I think we paid $300, but he said the job was so hard he never wanted to make another.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Vince,

    A Haenel 310 cannot shoot .177 balls. They are too big and the gun is too underpowered to push them through the bore.

    If you need 4.4mm balls, contact John Groenewold:

    John Groenewold, PO Box 830, Mundelein, IL 60060-0830, (847) 566-2365
    http://www.jgairguns.biz

    B.B.

  • kevin Says:

    B.B.,

    Thanks for the response. No mount available that you’re aware of that will solve this situation.

    Are there other alternatives? I’m reaching but….a laser sight that could be used outside and adjusted for a left eye dominant shooter?

    kevin

  • Anonymous Says:

    RE: Exploding Airsoft BBs

    See:
    http://www.kapowwe.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=R&Product_Code=exploding-airsoft-bb

    They are not RPG but a popper. Air accelerates more gently than hard surface decelerates, so they only pop when hitting something hard.

    Herb

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Kevin,

    I answered this question(left-eye dominant scope mounts) in the other place you asked it.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Jersey Joe,

    The air cartridges turn out to be such a bother to reload that people give up on them. They are more trouble than they are worth, in most shooter’s views.

    As a result, you can usually pick them up cheap at airgun shows. I showed three in my Roanoke video.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Vince,

    The Goma Chinese gun is all the talk on the vintage airgun forum. Don’t worry about Pyramyd Air. They’ll never sell them.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Joe B.,

    Thanks for that link. I learned something.

    B.B.

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    Kevin,
    Sorry, I should have known you would be on top of things. I vaguely remember some older rifle and shotgun mounts being offset. Also, maybe something like this:
    http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/accessory.pl?accessory_id=788 could be rigged up to work on low recoil gun.

    Matt,
    I’m afraid Herb is right. It’s the logical extension of bench rest “shooting”. The hobbyists always need the best equipment and groups:).

    Vince,
    I’m waiting for the Tianamin Discovery with pimp for just $125.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Kevin,

    No commercial mount that I am aware of.

    That laser idea sounds good, but it will only be zeroed at two ranges – the same as a scope. Lasers are very hard to see during daylight hours unless you use the green lasers that police have. They start at $300 and go up.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Herb,

    Thanks for that link. I see they are not available here. I hope they never are. They are totally counter to the idea of airsoft.

    B.,B.

  • wayne Says:

    Kevin,

    I don't feel picked on, I need help with spelling, as said before, I was not motivated by school. My dad & grandfather, had me working with them on construction jobs at age 5. By 15 I was a journeyman carpenter by the skills I had and money I made. I paid attention in class, but did no homework, because no one made me, and I worked after school. My dad's father, (an Alabama farmer) felt school unnecessary, and was allowed only after the chores were done, so he and his 12 brothers and sisters, had to get up at 3 am to do farm work first, if they wanted to go to school, and still work 8 more hours after school!

    I got "C"s and "D"s in the basics, but "A"s in shop class!!
    So bless you all for your help.

    I'm not proud of my "schoolin". Pay attention youngins, it's not easy to learn it when your older..

    And thanks for your kind words, it is a lot of work to write comments, but the info exchange is amazing, and well worth the time. And I'm learning to spell!!!, at least the words the computer can help with… This internet world is very cool.

    Thanks again for your spelling help.

    Wayne,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    BG_Farmer,

    The Tianamin Disco may sell for $125, but the pimp goes for a whole lot more! Car and leather maintenance has gone through the roof these days. :)

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Kevin,

    RE: Mount for left eye

    To ask the stupid question, why not make it a challenge for your friend to shoot left handed? It would take some getting used too, but ultimately it would seem a much better solution.

    My Dad ate left handed and that is the way I learned too. I do everything else right handed. Weird but true.

    I’m sure that a machinist could make a scope mount that comes off at a right angle. But it would seem that it would be delicate. Also, and more importantly, does this really give a good position for shooting?

    I measured my glasses quickly and the distance between my eyes is about 3.5 inches. That is quite a bit off the boreline. For a powder burner shooting at a 100 yards probably not such a big deal. But if you’re shooting varying distances between 10 and 30 yards it is very much a problem.

    Herb

  • kevin Says:

    BG_Farmer,

    Thanks for the link. Interesting apparatus. Maybe it could be made to work.

    B.B.,

    Thank you for the tip on a green laser. I know nothing about lasers so I’m off to do some research.

    Wayne,

    Knowledge is power no matter how it’s acquired. Nothing great was ever accomplished without motivation. It’s almost impossible to be motivated without a dream/goal. I think spelling is toward the bottom of my list of critical life skills.

    kevin

  • kevin Says:

    Herb,

    You make a good point that is filled with common sense. If he was 7 instead of 70 I think my chances would be better to convince him to start shooting left handed. You’re right, a scope hanging off the gun 3 1/2″ seems like a challenge. That along with B.B.’s point that it made his wife’s gun unwieldly have me headed in another direction. Maybe a laser sight? Thought this would be easy. Still have some time before Christmas.

    kevin

  • Anonymous Says:

    Kevin,

    RE: Left handed shooting

    Really think what you need to be looking for is a rifle which can be shot left handed, but which has good “action.”

    Shooting a right handed semi-auto shotgun left handed is a problem because the casing comes flying out past your right eye. No casing with a pellet gun.

    Heck with my break barrel I shoot right handed, but I switch hands and use my right arm to cock the gun. If I were shooting left handed I would already have the gun in the correct hands to cock the gun. A gun which has a lever safety with the trigger is ambidextrous.

    Make it a game. Learn to shoot left handed with your friend so he doesn’t seem like such a klutz.

    Herb

  • Anonymous Says:

    RE: green laser in daylight

    The reason a green laser is used in daylight is that the human eye is most sensitive to green light. Thus a green laser needs the least power to be seen.

    Herb

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB,

    Re- our previous discussion about Tanaka SAA airsoft revolvers and FYI, check out

    http://www.justpistols.co.uk/saa.htm

    when you have time. The photography is comprehensive and the gun is beautiful.

    As far as I can tell, this revolver is no longer available, nor have I — so far — been able to find an American distributer for Tanaka SAAs. Sigh. Airsoft International magazine (vol 4 issue 6, from England) says at least one version of the Tanaka SAA is out there. I love reading about the English skirmishes because the airsoft guns there are not required to wear orange on their muzzles, so they look real.

    Have you seen the new ECHO 1 E90 AEG airsoft bullpup that PA has started carrying? Are you planning a blog about it? I don’t think I’ve seen anything like it before (at first look, I thought it was an after-market drop-in piece for existing battle rifles).

    Hope you’re feeling better.

    Cheers,

    Joe B.

  • kevin Says:

    Herb,

    Thanks again. Great suggestions.

    kevin

  • wayne Says:

    Hey .22lr target shooters,

    What is your favorite "off the shelf" .22 cal long rifle for targets 75 to 100 yards..
    I'm going to the center fire & rim fire range tomorrow to play with the Ruger .270 and one I just got, a 1950s Remington SPORTMASTER bolt action. It's like my Dad's, .22 cal semi-auto, short, long, and long rifle. Except for the bolt, and my dad's doesn't have scope rails. That's the gun my mom gave my dad just after they got married. I'm so glad I still have it.

    My friend at the pawn shop saved it for me, because, he says "The SPORTMASTERs are so accurate". "They are a target rifle".

    Are they? I want some good ammo to find out with, in a bench rest tomorrow..

    If not "off shelf", then how about online? for the really good stuff..

    Wayne
    Ashland Air Rifle Range

  • twotalon Says:

    Wayne……..
    Shame on you for asking “what is the best ammo” for a rimfire. It’s even a worse question than asking about ammo for anything else.

    Each rifle likes something different. Even shotguns have their own preference with either shot or slugs.

    A rimfire is very tricky if you are not careful. The bullets are lubed. It takes time for the chamber and bore to establish a constant level of fouling that may require a box or two of ammo to stabilize. You should not shoot groups for zeroing in or group size until it smoothes out and becomes constant in POI and group size.
    If you switch ammo you will have to start over again and shoot until the chamber and bore stabilize to the new fit and fouling.

    I would suggest match ammo and possibly high speed ammo, but not the hyper velocity stuff. Solid point only….no HP stuff.

    How particular your rifle is about different kinds of ammo is something you will have to find out for yourself.

    And NEVER clean a rimfire unless accuracy drops off, or it gets really hard to chamber a round. You will have to waste another box of ammo to stabilize the rifle.

    twotalon

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    Wayne,

    Twotalon gave you good advice…especially don’t clean the barrel until things start to go south. Clean it now and commit to 50 shots before even trying to judge a load.

    Anything CCI makes in standard or “high-velocity” is liable to work pretty well. Since its a bolt action, go for the lightest load you can find, but don’t be afraid to experiment; even high velocity hollow points shoot well out of some rifles. Finding a good load that’s cheap is actually worth the trouble, as it can save you lots of money and time later.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Wayne,

    As suggested, pick up a variety of 40 gr. solid pts from different manufactures. (Although I have seen some HP do well – just not the extra light high velocity “Stinger” types, expensive, quirky, and no need for them for paper or plinking)

    Don’t worry about the extras going bad, I still have Kleanbore .22LR ammo from my Grandfather, it is from the 1950’s and works just fine.

    I would try the rounds at just 50 yards and pick a favorite.

    Semi-auto .22’s are a blast too. Love that smell. Kevin- I would guess that is another reason for me passing on the semi-auto FX. My 10/22 with 25 shot magazine is hard to beat when I need fast and furious.

    Volvo

  • wayne Says:

    Two Talon & BG_Farmer

    Wow,
    Thanks a lot! I knew this was where to ask! This sounds fun… and way less expensive than the .270, which I just want too check the scope on after lending it out..

    I've got 8 boxes of 500 .22 cal LR hollow point, in a mixture of Federal, Remington, and Winchester…. I stocked up for "walking the can" "an waabbitttss", when they were on sale at the local Bimart" for $11.

    So I'll get some CCI solid point, and try a few boxes after a long run in each of the other hollow points, just for a test… I liked the CCI shorts in the H&R 929 revolver.

    Thanks guys.. this is such a great forum..

    Wayne

  • wayne Says:

    Volvo,

    Thanks for helping too, I’ll test at 50 yards, and add to the variety of 40 gr. solid points I try….. 50 yards is better for dad’s open sights too… I love to shoot it when ever I get a chance, but didn’t want to wear it out.. It really didn’t get much use after we sold the ranch..

    When I finally graduated from my first gun, a Hy-Score 806, I think it was now, I got at 8 yrs old.. to using dad’s .22 cal rem semi-auto in our orange grove on “the young tree bark eating rabbit patrol” at around 12, the smell of my rapid fire rounds as they chased after one I missed on the first shot, is strong in my memory… along with the trust I felt with his finally trusting me to handle it on my own, with him behind me.

    Having milestones for our kids is a good thing..

    Wayne

  • twotalon Says:

    Wayne…..
    As an example of the necessity of conditioning the rifle to a paticular kind of ammo before making a decision about the accuracy…..
    I was doing some shooting one day and switched to a different kind of ammo. The results on the target were dramatic….and horrible. It shot POI to the left at first, and very loose. Continuing, the POI moved in a circular clockwise direction with the POI of each shot getting closer together and circular POI change slowing. It finally stopped moving, and was placing all shots in a spot narrower than the crosshairs.
    All it takes is one round of a different kind of ammo to blow the whole thing and you start over.
    Once you find the best, never switch unless the QC goes to crap.

    twotalon

  • wayne Says:

    Twotalon,

    So, just skip the HPs and try at least a full 50 rd box of different solid point manufactures, until I find the best one for that gun, and stick with it…. until it stops grouping… then clean it, and try that round again first for a couple boxes…

    Wayne

  • twotalon Says:

    Wayne….
    I never had the very best accuracy with HP ammo. It was always solids.
    Some rifles will shoot almost anything well, so don’t rule out the HP stuff.
    Some of the solids can be very dissapointing also.
    See what it likes, and also if the stuff that may not shoot the absolute best will still be adequate for the job.
    Rimfires are very flexible. Certain bullets are better suited to some things than others if you hunt different kinds of game with them.
    For example I hunt springtime chucks with Yellowjackets. Lots of killing power…but range has to be limited because of accuracy. Later in the year when the chucks are fat there gets to be a penetration promlem so I switch to CCI HP or Super X HP. Tree rats get subsonic HP or solid match.

    You have to determine what your needs are and what the limitations will be.

    Reminds me that I am getting low on some of my better ammo. Time to restock before it goes out of production.

    twotalon

  • toveysnake Says:

    This is a question about the Benjamin 392. Can I mount a small red dot sight on it without the $25 dollar mount?

  • twotalon Says:

    Wayne…
    My post about sticking with the best is based on the idea that you are looking for the very best accuracy.
    The last post is based on the idea that you may be looking for some flexibility within certain limitations.

    Depends on your point of view how you want to do it.

    If you switch around on ammo, always check stability and zero before doing anything serious with it.

    twotalon

  • Anonymous Says:

    RE: Benji 392 & red dot

    You'd need at least something like:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/accessory.pl?accessory_id=191

    About $13 not $25. Got to have some kind of dovetail.

    I was wondering about same thing. My thought was to mount red dot on barrel below chamber. Think the red dot would be short enough and high enough so that standard rear sight could be left on rifle.

    Also wondered if Crosman peep sight would form a "natural" way to center the red dot.

    Gun has nice power. Don't understand why it doesn't come with a bit better sights. So its a classic. No reason not to make it a bit better.

    Herb

  • wayne Says:

    twotalon,

    Thanks once I again, I think I will use the two Marlin 60 for the hollow point surplus on close range rabbit and “can walking”, that’s what I bought them all for.

    And with the two old Rems, I’ll try your process with the soild point .22 LR 40 gr. as best I can.

    I did find 5/50rd boxes of .22LR “thunderbolt” solid point 40gr. in my stack, so those for sure in the rems… I’d like the shooting they do be more serious and accurate, since they are as much for collecting, as maybe a little target contest here and there.

    If I set both the open sighted semi-auto, and the bolt action with a 6-24x50AO leapers, in the same type bench rests, at least I can use the scope to see where I hit when I was using dad’s open sighted one.

    Special guns for each use is kind of what I’ve started to do, in this new hobby. The seasoning of a rim fire barrel is totally new to me, and how shooting a different brand rounds, changes it all, is something I would never of thought of…

    What a great forum.. Thanks guys!!

    Wayne

  • wayne Says:

    Here is a great short video on compressed air powered cars!! The tanks used in this case could be a solution we were just looking for, in Matt61 question!

    http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/489.html

    Not to mention incredible savings on fuel and global warming damage..

    Very cool!!

    Wayne

  • Anonymous Says:

    That’s interesting about the virtue of solid and hollow points. After the performance of the HP Sierra Match King ammo in my police rifle, I’m pretty sold on the hollow points. My understanding is that they are good for accuracy because the hollow at the point moves the center of gravity backwards for more stabilization.

    Wayne, I was reading Commander Gary Stubblefield U.S. Navy Seals Retired talk about his days in Vietnam, and he says that they fired off 2,000 rounds per week. At 250 rounds a day, you’re practically there. You’re a Navy Seal.

    I have wondered about the different practice regimens I hear about. On the one hand there are the Navy Seals and Delta Force who, according to one account, fired off 1 million practice rounds in a summer. There can’t be that many of them that individuals weren’t shooting off a mountain of ammo. Then there are writers like Gabe Suarez who say that shooting 100 rounds a day is plenty and Elmer Keith who says that 50 per day is plenty. How he made it through his ten thousand lots of .22 LR ammo at this rate, I do not know. This information from him is particularly surprising since he was so hard-core in other ways. Then there are the archers of ancient Japan who reportedly practiced shooting non-stop for 24 hours….

    Anyway, the 150 pellets that I shoot per day seems to work for me, and besides, it’s fun.

    Matt61

  • wayne Says:

    Matt61,

    The bottom line, is your last line…it's not work and it's fun and easy..

    At least that is why I do it, and try to make a micro business out of it. Fun business. That works for me. With both my offices in one spot, in the corner of our pool room, and 30 lbs of silent clay standing there waiting, 20 yards away, it's not hard to practice.

    I even practice with my quiet Air Arms s410 .177, on the phone, with my head set, with people I know, (otherwise they ask if a mouse just farted on my shoulder), from the "Waziboy", now, field.. err.. or "Office" tested version, soon to be released at your nearest "Waziboy" dealer…

    Wayne,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range & Waziboy Rentals

  • kevin Says:

    Volvo,

    Is that a ruger .22 semi-auto? My first firearm was a remington .22 tube feed semi-auto. Still have the gun. It’s up at my cabin or I’d tell you the model. When we were kids we used to light stick matches with this .22. Don’t remember the last time I shot that gun. All this talk about .22′s and the smell is making me want to dust it off and run a few rounds through it. At my age smells bring back memories quicker than anything else. God help me.

    B.B.,

    I’m in the middle of a business mess right now and haven’t been able to spend much time with this passion. Hope my rapid fire questions earlier this morning weren’t overwhelming. Again, I haven’t had much time to communicate but I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. Based on your high praise I acquired a nice fwb 124 last September and quickly sent it off to Paul Watts for an advanced tune with special attention to the trigger. I got the gun back from Paul about two weeks ago and what a magnificent air gun. Everything you said about this gun and more is true. Haven’t been able to spend a lot of time with it but the accuracy is unbelievable. Pellet touching Pellet at 60 feet. Haven’t had a chance to take it up to my place in the mountains and shoot at any distance but what a pleasure this old gun is. Thanks for all you do. Without your passion for airguns and commitment to write about your experiences I probably would have never been able to have this most enjoyable experience.

    kevin

  • Vince Says:

    BB, John Groenewold is the guy who had the Haenel 310′s. And since you’re not worried about pyramyd carrying ‘Goma Precision Airguns’ (still snickering about that), I’ll mention that he’s also the one selling those.

    I recently received my first order from John – a bunch of Gamo breech washers and a spare pivot bolt. As you know, he’s got a lot of stuff you just can’t seem to get anywhere else.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Hi bb, i like your blog, i wanted to ask a question. can a rws 34 take down oppossum sized game in 22, or would 177 be better? distance is 10- 20 yds. Also, is it alot harder to tune an underlever than a break barrell?

  • Anonymous Says:

    Hi Wayne,

    Not only different brands but different LOTS within the same brand and type of .22 LRs can change POI. If you don't already have one, pick up a copy of "The Book of the 22: The All-American Caliber by Sam Fadala (Paperback – Jul 1989) 14 Used & new from $7.99" at amazon. It's a fascinating read and chock full of info.

    I love my .22s because they're quiet and cheap to shoot. My dad started me with a Winchester M62 when I was a kid and I loved that gun. I used to carry it all over our farm until he bought me a Colt New Frontier. I carried that one in a holster while using our tractor in the bottom fields down by the creek, where there were always plenty of targets 0f opportunity. I sold the Winchester a few years back, because after years of shooting shorts, the powder buildup made extracting the longer LR cases very difficult. I used to fill the tube magazine with shorts or BB Caps, hold down the trigger and pump out lots of shots at tin cans on a stump in our peach orchard at 50'.

    The Colt is now gone too. I still have a beautiful scoped Ruger 10-22 and a Ruger Standard semi-auto pistol with a bull barrel, plus a Ruger Single-Six in .22 LR/.22 Magnum which replaced the Colt. I also had a .22 LR match barrel for my T/C but one of my sons inherited the barrel when we moved.

    Just braggin' and reminiscin', y'know…

    Joe B.

  • Vince Says:

    Anonymous, if I may I’ll chime in on your tuning question. I’m not BB (lucky for him!) but maybe I can shed some light on this for you.

    It’s difficult to point to one general type of gun (underlever, sidelever, breakbarrel) and say that it’s harder than another type. Too much depends on the design of the powerplant, and in some guns (like the Mendoza’s or the MP513) the trigger mechanism makes things real interesting.

    It can be said, though, that breakbarrels do offer one complication that underlevers (or sidelevers don’t) – and that is the breaking barrel. The pivot and locking mechanisms are frequently trouble-free for years, but if they’re not right it can be a bit of a pain to make them right. Sometimes it’s a merely a matter of tightening a pivot bolt, other times the solution can be a bit more elusive.

    Sliding-breech underlevers or sidelevers (B3, B4-1, QB88, RWS48) can actually be easier to work on. The compression cylinder is a separate and shorter piece that can be removed and held in your hand and is easier to inspect, clean, and hone. Reassembly is also a bit easier, since you’re not trying to sneak the seal past holes and slots in the tube which will try to snag and damage the seal.

    In the end, it all depends on the gun. What rifles in particular are you talking about?

  • Tracy Says:

    BB,
    I’m lost, what’s a “The Tianamin Disco may sell for $125″. Did crosman name their new PCP after a chinese city? Great way to say made in america. Any details on the rifle?
    Shadow express dude

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    SED,

    The Tianamin Disco os BG_Farmer’s way of joking that Crosman will have a PCP gun made in China to get the price down. They may do that someday, but for now they are convinced, as I am, that China cannot produce a reliable PCP.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB and others:
    I would like this opportunity to remind everyone here of the event that happened on this day, 61 years ago. I think we all should devote a moment of silence or prayer to the American lives that were lost in the event of pearl harbor. In times like this, with the economy and everything else, some of you might forget this events. I ask you to remember and recognize the bravery and loss of life that occurred then, and is occuring now.
    Thank you
    John

  • Anonymous Says:

    sorry, it was 67 years ago

  • Dr. G. Says:

    There are nearly 100 comments here. If someone writes something controversial, it will easily go over the 100 mark this weekend.

    I predict that one day B.B.s blog will routinely have over 100 hits a day, let alone over a weekend. This seems inevitable. What will happen to his life then?

    - Dr. G.

  • wayne Says:

    Joe B.

    Thanks for your input also. .22 is really a fun caliber. I’ve never tried to do serious target with it, until now. Always for rabbits and walking the can type stuff. This will be fun to add bench rest target to my hobby endeavors. So if I find a real good round, better stock up from the same store, trying to get them from the same factory run.

    Thanks again guys!

    B.B. I hope they are still breaking up and flowing with ease… Like Volvo said “Health, Family, then work” take care of yourself!

    John,
    Thanks for the reminder.

    Wayne

  • wayne Says:

    B.B.

    Also thank you for the advice on scoping the RWS52. You were right again, it didn’t need the new base to take of barrel droop. I had a 3-9x50AO on a one piece mount, so I put it on. The first shot was only 6″ low at 20 yards, and I was on target in three shots.

    This one needs Kodiak extra heavy 10.6 gr. It’s about as good as the TX200 and HW-77 for grouping off a bench rest… Nice gun, but I might have it tuned down a little, still too fast, and too much recoil, for real good groups…

    Wayne,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range

  • Anonymous Says:

    Kevin,

    Glad to hear you received the FWB 124 back from Paul. Yes, my Ruger is a semi-auto 10/22. The factory magazines are 10 shot as the name implies, but aftermarket accessories abound. At least for now, I think I will pick up a folding stock for it while I still can.

    Funny how as a kid we can’t wait to grow up and as we age we embrace the time we spent as a kid the most.

    Sorry to hear your business is presenting you with opportunities, but I would guess that is a common thread many of us share currently.

    Unfortunately, the Ohio Blue Tip Matches you speak of lighting with a .22 have not been made for decades. The strike anywhere ability was deemed unsafe. I think a zipper was the most common “anywhere” surface.

    Volvo

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Joe B.,

    Thank you for that link to the Tanaka revlver. I sent it to the owner of Pyramyd Air and told him that is what real airsoft guns are all about.

    It is an amazing replica.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    toveysnake,

    You have to have something to attack a red dot sight to. The 392 has no integral scope mount base.

    A dot sight would work fine on the gun, as long as you don’t mind holding it differently when you pump it.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Kevin,

    I’m glad your 124 turned out so nice. Now you can appreciate when I praise a certain spring gun.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB,

    You’re welcome (the Tanaka thing). Thanks for passing it along to PA. Perhaps their buying power will one day allow us to have SAAs available in the US! Tanaka’ll probably paint the ends of the bbls orange though, like Tokyo Marui does theirs…yuck.

    Did you know that there are also airsoft replicas of the 1858 Remington .44 New Model Army (I used to have the black powder version of this gun), as well as a WInchester made by Marushin? And Tanaka has just released a version of the SAA that has the gas and BBs held in the shells (which traditionally have not performed that well, so I’m curious to see if Tanaka did a better job with this concept).

    -Joe B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Vince,

    Yes, John Groenewold has long been a top supplier of hard-to-get airguns parts.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Possum,

    I like the .22-caliber rifle for the possums over the .177. Yes, at that close range a good shots from a 34 will take the game.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Joe B.,

    My wife found this about Tanaka:

    TOKYO, Nov. 10 (UPI) — Tokyo-based Tanaka Works says it has removed its Cassiopeia gun from the market over police concerns the toy could injure or kill.

    Tanaka Works believes the gun is safe but has stopped shipping it and will issue a recall, said Yoshimoto Tanaka, the company’s president.

    Tokyo’s Metropolitan Police Department last month seized 800 Cassiopeia’s from the toy maker’s factory after Internet fans of the gun posted messages saying it could be converted to a lethal weapon if gunpowder was used instead of the gun’s pressurized gas cartridge, Yomiuri Shimbun reported Monday.

    The Metropolitan Police said their own tests allegedly confirmed the Cassiopeia could be modified to fire consecutive rounds of pellets with force strong enough to potentially wound or kill, Shimbun reported, noting the gun has only been on the market since last July.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    B.B.,

    Yes, I just discovered the same thing. I’m still reading (auto translation from Japanese into English is a hoot).

    Out of curiosity, can airsoft guns that use 134a gas (do I have this designation right?) also use propane, or does it depend on the individual gun?

    -Joe B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    B.B.,

    I found this on Wikipedia. No, I am not suggesting we all go out and break existing laws, but it is interesting.

    Orange-tipped airsoft gun muzzles
    There have been countless cases of airsoft guns being mistaken for real firearms, and many cases where armed law enforcement units have responded to tips of unlawful firearm use. This is the main reason that American federal laws require minimum 6mm (approx. 1/4″) orange tips to be present on all “toy guns” (including airsoft replicas) transported within and imported into the United States.[13]
    However, the effectiveness of such measures remains open to debate, because these orange tips can be easily removed, covered, or painted away at any time. One prominent case occurred in Longwood, Florida when a student threatened fellow classmates with an airsoft pistol and was subsequently shot dead when he aimed it towards an officer. The orange tip mandated by US Federal law had been painted black.[14] Airsoft players will generally do anything to avoid using the orange tip on their guns because it makes them more visible at a distance when they play. The majority of airsoft guns now lack orange tips even if they originally had them, even in localities that require them, so this type of legal regulation would be impractical to enforce in all instances. This is often the norm if the airsoft gun is used only in private or restricted game locations that are not usually accessible to law enforcers. Furthermore, theatrical or movie productions may require the absolute lack of any markings that would distinguish a replica gun from a real gun, so there are regulated exceptions to the orange-tip rule.[15]
    Furthermore, their legal imposition means that criminals can attempt to disguise real firearms as toys by painting the tip of the barrel orange, or vice versa. According to the New Times Broward-Palm Beach, “Federal regulations state that fake guns must be sold with orange tips. But there’s nothing in the books to prevent airsoft owners from painting those tips black or, for that matter, from painting orange tips onto real guns.”[16] For police departments that are already hampered by a lack of resources to enforce America’s laws on actual firearms, the additional task of tracking down and constantly monitoring non-lethal replica guns could result in much more lax enforcement of the orange-tip rules.[original research?]
    [edit]

    -Joe B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    christmas is coming, along with my decision…
    I’m hoping that this week you receive a brown box from crosman containing a prototype PCP! As always, I do have some questions. First, how is it holding a talon with a co2 tank ( I’ve heard uncomfortable)? Also, is there more accuracy to be had with the talon 18 inch than the ss’s 12 inch? On CO2, is the reloading time long enough to let the gun warm up after each shot? How many fps can be expected from these guns and CO2 in freezing temperatures? And lastly, will a talon running CO2, be as accurate as HPA out to 50 yards?
    Sorry for the 20 questions :-( but thanks in advance
    John from jersey

  • Walther Falcon Hunter guy Says:

    Kevin, did your friend lose all sight in his master eye, did it become uncorrectable, or did it surrender its dominance to the other one?

    If it is the first or second then he will have to learn to shoot from the other shoulder, but if it is the third there may be a cheap possibility that would have him shooting again.

    Have him don his shooting glasses (with the correction necessary to allow him to see the front sight clearly) and mount the rifle, then load up a fingertip with petroleum jelly and smear the lens where he is seeing the rifle with his master eye. This will badly blur the image, making it mandatory he use his formerly master eye to get a sight picture. Try that for an afternoon. If it still works then the fix may be to have that spot frosted or otherwise obscured on a new pair of shooting glasses (safety-type is what I am thinking here, not the competition-grade BB has shown us here before, though that may be an answer too). Depending on how your friend shoulders his rifles the glasses may even be usable for other pursuits, so this wouldn’t be a bunch of cash for only a limited-purpose use.

    –WFH

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Joe,

    I don’t know if green gas )propane) can substitute for 134 or not, but my airsoft gurus usuall;y sau no. Even red gas, which is lower-pressure than green gas, cannot be switched, and the difference is only 15 psi.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Jersey John,

    How far will a Corvette drive on a tank of tractor fuel?

    That’s the same as asking how many shots you get from CO2 in freezing weather. CO2 pressure is cut severely in sub-freezing temperatures, so you’ll get a lot more shots at a LOT lower velocity.

    The single-shot reloading time is just about perfect for the Talon SS, as long as the temperature is above 70 degrees.

    If the wind is dead calm, the accuracy between CO2 and air at 50 yards is the same, But a breeze will destroy CO2.

    The stock is slightly more comfortable than a CO2 tank, but not much. If you can shoot a Talon SS you can shoot the CO2 conversion.

    Finally, there is no difference in accuracy betweema 12-inch barrel and an 18-inch barrel. None whatsoever.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Joe,

    That .25 Colt is illegal for the general public. But Customs doesn’t catch them all. I have a couple as well.

    B.B.

  • Dr. G. Says:

    B.B./Jersey John,

    My experience with the Condor .25 shooting all the different pellets that I have is that even at 10 yards it is noticeably more accurate with air versus CO2. CO2 knocks off at least 1/8″ off and with worse pellets even 1/4″ worse at 10 yards when compared to air (pellet on pellet at 10 yards).

    My discussions with others bear this out, and it makes sense when you think that this air rifle was designed (as a hunting rifle) to shoot above 850 fps, not below 700 fps.

    By the way, I realized that my tuned 54 stopped emitting any odor at least a couple months ago. I guess it shot over 800 pellets with odor, and it could even be over 1,500, I wasn’t paying attention.

    - Dr. G.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Hello Everyone!!
    Question… Is a 60cubic feet scuba tank that holds 3300psi better, the same, or less capable of giving me more refills than an 80cubic feet scuba tank that holds 3000psi??? So what is more important, the volume inside or its capability of withstanding more pressure??? (which means that it can also hold more air)
    Cheers,
    Jony

  • Anonymous Says:

    Dr. G.

    Rich told me that the smell was from dieseling, perhaps as a result of a certain kind of lube, but he said that it would disappear quickly. The smell was gone from my gun within 100 pellets or less.

    Pearl Harbor, yes the memorial on site is very good and a good experience if you get out there. One of the lesser-known tragedies of the attack was not the immediate destruction but the way sailors trapped in sunken ships were hammering for help for days and weeks afterwards but could not be reached. This year’s commemoration is not focusing on the attack so much as the response which is quite amazing when you think about it. The tide was turned within 6 months and the war concluded in less than 4 years, way under the original estimates of the Defense Department. Not bad for a 10,000 mile campaign. I like the comment of General Vandegrift about his own inexperienced First Marine Division still armed with bolt-action Springfields at Guadalcanal: “These youngsters are the darnedest bunch once they get going.” I bet they would have made good air gunners.

    Wayne, how interesting to hear about your experience at school. Books have their uses, but I have always thought the whole academic establishment with its curriculum and awards is a very imperfect image of the potential of people. For example, my brother was told by his high school Japanese teacher that he got a D but he should of had an F. He went on to pick up Japanese on his own while working at a small town in Japan and was very successful for four years. Then, he moved to Taiwan and learned Chinese in 3 months which he used to romance his now-wife. The ultimate shop class I would say.

    I, myself, am a big fan of continuing education which is what librarianship is all about. And with the internet, no genius of the past could pull together the kind of info that I can on any imaginable subject in a matter of hours. By the way, I could use your shop skills now. While assembling my first radio controlled airplane, I dropped a key part into the body and had the devil’s own time getting it out. Argh. Finally, after four hours with the airplane overhead while manipulating a piece of wire very carefully, I got it out. I guess this is pretty irrelevant, but you can’t deny that shooting is like piloting a remote controlled vehicle to its destination….

    Matt61

  • Anonymous Says:

    Kevin,

    This might solve the left-eye dominance issue.

    First mount this:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/accessory.pl?accessory_id=787

    or this:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/accessory.pl?accessory_id=788

    You’ll only need to mount the ring with the tri-rail. Remove the top and right side tri-rails Leaving only the left picatiny rail attached. The rail will probably have to point forward.

    Now mount something like this:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/accessory.pl?accessory_id=651

    I think that you will only be able to zero this at one distance–say 10 yards–as the pellet and the line of sight are not in the same plane.

    In theory, this should work.

    Derrick

  • Anonymous Says:

    Vince,

    RE: your comment about break-barrel lock-up problems. Been there a few times. I was beating my head against the wall for a few days just last week and starting to think I’d spent a bunch of money for nothing.

    You might find this interesting:

    http://www.anotherairgunblob.blogspot.com

    Derrick

  • Anonymous Says:

    I meant

    http://www.anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com.

    No blobs there except me.

    Derrick

  • Anonymous Says:

    Kevin,

    I forgot to mention, but it should be obvious that the red dot sight will be mounted sideways. The elevation is now the horizontal adjustment. The horizontal now the elevation.

    Derrick

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    Wayne&Volvo,
    All this talk about .22LR smells has me excited. The Golden Bullets produce the most smoke for the least cash, but CCI mini-mags will always be tops in my book, with a hint of hickory and perhaps sage:)…smells like childhood.

    Tracy/SED,
    Sorry about the "Tianaman Discovery with pimp". It was a a joke about a Chinese copy of Discovery (with typical spelling error as found in my clunk manuals), as BB said.

    Matt,
    Imagine what a different life history's geniuses (genii?) would have had if they had had access to all the unfiltered information on the internet. I can't help but wonder if they would have been so overwhelmed and/or entertained that they would have accomplished nothing.

  • Anonymous Says:

    B.B.:
    I have a question about hand pumps… I read P.A.’s article that included a video of how to fill with a hand pump… It says that you should only fill for 5 minutes or less, then let it cool down for 15minutes, and then restart again…….. But then, in one of your posts (maybe I am misunderstanding) you claim the following:
    “Two quick ways to DESTROY a hand pump!:
    No. 2: Don’t allow your pump to cool down for 15 minutes after every five minutes of pumping! You will burn the high-temperature packing (the deepest seal in the pump!) and probably crack the brass fitting that holds it. The outward symptoms are a pump handle that refuses to stay down. “
    Maybe I am confused, and sorry if I am, but aren’t you stating the opposite??? Hope you can help me…

    Miri
    P.S.: http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/03/3000-psi-hand-pump.html (at the end) :)

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Miri,

    I made the video you refer to and I wrote the warning. They do not contradict.

    In the video I say pump for five minutes and then let the pump REST for 15 minutes.

    What is confusing you is the way the second warning is written. It is the reverse of the first. The first tells you to DO something and the second tells you you will destroy your pump if you DON’T DO what the first warning told you to do.

    Perhaps it would help to read it aloud?

    In the second version, I say, “This is the way to destroy your pump. – by not doing this.”

    In other words,

    “If you do do this, you will destroy your pump.”

    They are the same thought. One is stated backwards.

    Sorry for the confusion.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Jony,

    The pressure the air is at in the 60 cubic foot tank may help you gain one extra full fill, but the total number of shots that tank will give will be less than the 80 cubic foot tank.

    B.B..

  • Anonymous Says:

    Jony,

    RE: 60cubic feet @ 3300psi vs. 80cubic feet @ 3000psi

    From chemistry:
    PV = nRT

    Since the temperature is constant we can use the product of pressure (P) and volume (V) to get a reasonable measure of the relative amount of gas in the tanks.

    80*3000 = 240,000
    60*3300 = 198,000

    so the 80 cubic foot tank contains
    (240-198)/240*100=17.5%
    more gas total.

    You really need though to figure gas content not on total, but on what the lowest pressure is that you want to fill at. Let’s assume a Discovery @ 1800psi.

    80*(3000 – 1800)=96,000
    60*(3300 – 1800)=90,000

    So its pretty much a draw at that point. Which tank is lighter?

    Herb

  • Anonymous Says:

    Jajajaj… Ok no problem B.B.!! LOL… Thank you very much!!!

    Miri

  • wayne Says:

    Jony,

    The other factor is, my scuba shop fills my 3,000 tanks to 3,300…IF, I promise to keep them out of the sun… Safety wise, they are designed for much more..

    Matt61,

    Since I was making a mans wages, when I was 15, school didn’t grab my interest. I still enjoy learning what I’m interested in… I go very deep into the things that do grab my interest… air guns… for example!! I’ve gone pretty deep in less than a year..

    But I’m at my best designing value added wood products for the marketplace..
    “Imagination is more important than knowledge”, Albert Einstein.

    School misses the boat most times by not making learning more in the present and useful for daily life.

    Wayne

  • Randy-in-VA Says:

    BG_Farmer – “Tianaman Discovery with pimp” – I got it!

  • John Says:

    Hi BB,
    you did mention —

    "I was supposed to check something else with this gun. Several readers say the CO2 mechanism will eventually leak after several cartridges have been installed. I thought they might be over-tightening the cartridges at installation, but I promised to have a look at it for them. If I've made a mistake in this, please correct me so I can check for the right things."

    I was told this is an issue with almost all CO2 guns and that they tend to leak after some (minimal) usage and that once a co2 cylinder is loaded it must be emptied. can you please suggest what can be done to overcome / Fix that.
    Thanks
    John

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    John,

    In the 1950s it was common for CO2 guns to leak as you describe. Today it is very rare. I haven't seen a leaker in the past 100 CO2 guns I've tested, which is about 2 years' worth.

    B.B.

  • John Says:

    Thank you BB

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