Tuesday, January 13, 2009

Walther Lever Action CO2 rifle - redux

Introduction by B.B. Pelletier

Guest blogger
CJr wrote today's guest blog. If you'd like to write a guest post for this blog, please email me.

Bloggers must be proficient in the simple html that Blogger software uses, know how to take clear photos and size them for the internet (if their post requires them) and they must use proper English. We will edit each submission, but we won't work on any submission that contains gross misspellings and/or grammatical errors.

Now, on to our guest blog!

by CJr


Walther Lever Action CO2 rifle...a magnificent replica by any standard!


I just got a Walther Lever Action air rifle. Long-time readers of this blog may remember that B.B. wrote a three-part review of it back in June 2008. I can't improve on that review. Read his if you're interested in this gun and then come back to mine. All I'm doing is adding my personal impressions to his detailed description.

It almost feels like Christmas again
The package was delivered today from Pyramyd Air. It was over $150, so shipping was free. Because it included CO2 (40 cartridges!), they shipped it ground. Besides the gun and CO2, I also ordered some pellets and Pellgunoil for the rifle. I was all set to wait for the five-day delivery, but it arrived in two. My heart rate has increased at the anticipation of opening the package!

First, I slid the gun boxout of a protective cardboard box. A box within a box within a box. Cut tape here, cut tape there, now the box is opened...and there it is. What a remarkable replica! Dark wooden stock and black receiver and barrel. Looks like a Winchester 94 to me. Very pleased!


Here's a picture of the rifle if you haven't visited B.B.'s review yet.


Let's savor its externals before going to work
Picked the gun up. Seems smaller than I fantasized. Like movie stars when you see them in person, they don't look as big in real life as they do on the silver screen (I must go to the gun shop soon and see if I can hold a real one and compare). But this one has good heft, feels like a firearm, is solid and has excellent quality. All metal including trigger, hammer and cocking lever. However, the front and rear sights and the barrel bands are plastic. Doesn't make sense. Shouldn't cost that much more to make them metal. The front sight is hooded (plastic also). Not sure if that's authentic. Looks good, though.

I don't know what kind of wood is used for the dark reddish-brown stock, but I like it. The finish is slightly rough to the touch, not smooth and shiny. The carving of the upper stock from the receiver to the comb is beveled with angular edges rather than a smooth, rounded contour. I don't think it's authentic, but I like it. It is, in my imagination, what I'd expect if I was to go buy one at the Wagon Wheel general store in Durango in 1894. From the comb on back, the upper and lower buttstock is rounded like any other rifle stock.


Notice the angular carving of the stock in front of the comb. It adds an antique look to the stock.


OK now, let's put 'er to work
I took the gun down to my indoor range and got out the tin of RWS Hobby pellets. I want to use these since they're tried and true and, well, they're already opened. When I used them up, I loaded a few Gamo Match.

But wait, I'd better put in the CO2 before I shoot. I pulled out the apparatus that holds the two 12-gram CO2 cartridges. I see two already in there--bonus, I incorrectly think (more on this later). I lock it back in. Removing and reinserting it works smooth and positive. I'm pleased.

I loaded up the two magazines that came with the rifle. Nice! They're metal, not plastic. Very good quality. The eight pellets fit snugly. I have to press them firmly to get their tails flush with the holes. They definitely won't fall out if you turn over the mag. There's a slot in the right side of the receiver with a hinged door that looks and acts just like where you'd put in the cartridges, just like the firearm. Except that no cartridges go in it. Pressing it releases and pops open the magazine loading door. The mag has a hole in the center. Slip that hole over the post in the door, close the door and I'm ready.


Here's a look at the breech before inserting the magazine. Note the mounting post above the red strip, which puts pressure on the mag so it doesn't spin freely.



Here it is with the mag inserted.


Time for some shootin'!
I cocked the lever to chamber a round. Now were talkin'! It feels just like the real thing to me. This is what I was looking for when I ordered the gun. I aim down range. It feels comfortable, reach is good for me, hits my shoulder right. The rear sight is a standard blade. The front is a post in a tubular hood. I take careful aim, pull the trigger and..."click." Whoops! I check everything over, check safety, it's off. Must be the CO2. I remove the CO2 apparatus. Everything looks good. Put another twist on the cartridge seating bracket thinking maybe they weren't seated for transit. Try another shot...nothing but "click." Turns out the cartridges inserted in the gun were empty. Well, that's ok. I suppose they were used to test fire the gun and left in as shipping protection for the cartridge seats, or to keep air pressure in the gun, maybe. I pulled out the old, drop in a drop of Pellgunoil in each seat (you see B.B., I do pay attention), insert two new cartridges and I'm ready to shoot.

Replacing the cartridges was easy. I didn't like tightening the CO2 cartridge bracket down because it took a lot of effort, and I couldn't tell when the carts were pierced. I was very afraid of over-tightening and ruining the gun on my first venture. I reread the directions and it said to tighten until the handle stops, then back off and lock in place. I guess, maybe, it can't be over tightened unless you go past "stop."

Now that the bugs are worked out....
Shooting the gun was fun and fast, with a very audible pop and everything I hoped it would be. The report is loud at the muzzle, louder than any of my springers or single-stroke pneumatics. It has a distinct pop to it. If you want to shoot discreetly, this won't do it. I don't think this is news to you experienced shooters. I understand this is typical of CO2.

I'm terrible with open sights, so I can't speak about accuracy. B.B. covered that very well in his review. I believe him. I did hit several 8 and 9 rings and one X. I don't have a chronograph, so you'll get no techie stuff from me.

I went through those first two CO2 tubes pretty quick and felt like I got a lot of shots. The mag holds eight pellets and I found it hard to count to eight, and there's no external way to tell how many shots are left so I had quite a few dry fires. I found I could open the mag carefully, count, then carefully close and keep on counting as long as I didn't move the mag. I also noticed that, even though I pressed the pellets in tight, firing jars some of them loose and they'll fall out if you're not careful while opening.

Let's do a little pellet counting
On the second set of CO2 cartridges, I tried to count how many shots I got before having to change. I counted out 75 pellets and placed them in the tin lid. I remembered B.B.'s review using 60 as optimum, but I'm here tonight to have fun not win a contest. With my poor use of open sights, I stayed inside two inches at 10 meters for the whole 75, plus about 5 extra dry fires because of my can't-count affliction. I loaded up two more magazines and still stayed within two inches on the first then started dropping off on the second. I loaded up two more and started shooting six inches low and progressed inch by inch off the paper. It dropped that fast.

One more little bug
While shooting, I also adjusted the sights. I had to adjust the rear sight up two clicks. That was easy to do. I was shooting left alot so I adjusted the front sight left until its base was flush with the mount. That's a lot of left. I had to figure out how to adjust the windage on my own because the instructions didn't tell me how. It just said that if you're shooting left...adjust left. Yeah, but how do I move the thing? Turns out it's a friction fit. Just slide it the direction you want it to go. No screws to turn, no ratchets to ratchet, just slide it. Is that cheesy? No way to lock it in. You have to remove the hood first but that just clips on in some grooves. Carefully pry it off with a flat blade. I would imagine the front sight becoming loosey goosey in its mount if it was adjusted very often. This is the only part of the rifle that I really didn't like. I could scope it but I don't want to. Rooster Cogburn didn't scope his, did he?

One final point
There's a special safety under the stock that the cocking lever must return to and hold in or else the gun won't fire. This is no problem and requires no extra effort on the shooter. After cocking and returning the lever to the shooting position, it snaps up and presses in the safety. B.B. said in his review that the rifle he tested didn't have this feature but mine does. They must have added it later or given him a prototype.

My final impression? It's almost exactly what I was looking for (getting rid of the plastic would get rid of the word "almost"). It's fun to shoot, it's well made and it's a good purchase for me. I'll get many enjoyable shots out of this rifle and hopefully accolades for its showcase qualities.

68 Comments:

At January 13, 2009 5:46 AM, Anonymous Airdog said...

Good Morning!
Nice review, CJr. Good information on a rifle I've been thinking about getting for awhile.
On a different topic, IZH61 owners might be interested to hear I converted mine to single-shot and it shoots the ragged one-holers from 10m. I always knew it could. I dremelled out the entire section that holds the clips; it's a little tricky loading pellets, but using tweezers does the trick. It looks messy, but accuracy is all I'm after. I'm convinced the clips weren't lining up exactly and the pellets were getting damaged.

 
At January 13, 2009 6:26 AM, Anonymous Mr B. said...

Morning CJr: I hope PA increased their inventory of the Walther Leaver Actions to cover its sales increase based upon your excellent review. Thanks. The picture sure looks like my 94.

Wayne, I didn't see a post from you yesterday. Is everything ok?

 
At January 13, 2009 7:09 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've said it once before, I really would like to purchase this rifle. If they offerred it in .22cal at 600fps, they would have my money in a heart-beat. Would be a nice small-game, 30 yrd hunter then.

 
At January 13, 2009 8:23 AM, Anonymous Andrew said...

Not possible, all these are manufactured to the German legal limits of 7.5Joules output... Modification impossible.

 
At January 13, 2009 8:43 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Airdog,

Your story might make a good guest blog if you have some pics to go with it.

B.B.

 
At January 13, 2009 8:59 AM, Anonymous Airdog said...

BB - Unfortunately my dremel-work was somewhat rough; it's just too ugly to show the world. Maybe if I clean it up a bit. I could also do a guest blog on a 1377 conversion to 2289 I did recently. (Actually the tube is still a 1377, but the rest is 2289 parts.)

 
At January 13, 2009 9:19 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not possible?
German limits?
You better contact Diana/RWS and tell them to stop manufacturing their rifles that are 15+ joules then...lol. Sounds like just a "manufacturing" choice not to offer it in .22cal.

 
At January 13, 2009 9:20 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nice review. This is a gun that is on my list of 'wants'...along with the Diana 46ST...one will probably be in my stable by the end of summer.
Now, a it OT.
The Gamo Compact is working out nicely. Barring the crappy manual the gun seems to be working flawlessly and the finish seems quite good. Using a two hand hold with a rest it punches one ragged hole in the center of the target (5 shots)...but one handed off-hand...man do I stink.
Really!!
It's mildly depressing actually...I seem to be a much better action shooter (I assume that's what they call the two handed hold I use when shooting my CP99) than an actual target shooter.
But it gives me something to work up to.
One question though b.b. Am I doing something wrong (or just not being careful enought) or am I destined to have little blood blisters from getting my big-assed fingers caught in the pistol while cocking it??
BTW I'm going to try and figure out how to post some photos. I took some over the weekend of an outdoor shooting session with the boys.
The 7 year old (well till this weekend, when he turns 8) was having no problem hitting pop cans at 15-20' with his Marksman 1010...a good investment, me thinks.
As well the 5 year old was doing his best to murder a couple of 60' high fir trees with his Red Ryder...unfortunately they were having none of it.
CowBoyStar Dad

 
At January 13, 2009 9:24 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

7.5joule limit,

Let me introduce you to the RWS 460 magnum
http://www.diana-airguns.de/index.php?id=132&L=1&width=800&height=600

and his break barrel cousin, the 350 magnum
http://www.diana-airguns.de/index.php?id=216&L=1&width=800&height=600

there are more, but these are the big bruisers...

 
At January 13, 2009 9:30 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

CowboyStar Dad,

I'm afraid it's blood blisters for you. But eventually your hands will become a mass of scar tissue and it won't hurt anymore.

B.B.

 
At January 13, 2009 9:52 AM, Blogger J-F said...

CowBoyStar Dad,

read the blog series on the 10 meter pistol shooting. You can find it here : http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/08/10-meter-pistol-shooting-part-7.html
I improved a LOT with these and I just couldn't believe the part where moving my feets improved the stability of my hand. This one of my favorite blogs.

J-F

 
At January 13, 2009 10:17 AM, Anonymous Vince said...

Airdog (and other IZH61 owners), it's real easy to check for misalignments. Loosen the screw under the frontmost barrel support, and unscrew the barrel. At that point you can load up a clip, point the rifle down, and just cycle the arm back and forth. The pellets will just fall out, and you can examine them for any damage that occured when being moved from the clip to the loading channel.

Also, it's possible to go into the port from the left side with a small ball grinder and give that loading channel a bell-mouth. On mone, doing that helped solve feeding problems.

 
At January 13, 2009 10:46 AM, Anonymous wayne said...

Mr. B., & All,

Great news, and sad news...

The great news is our raised garden bed kits got picked by "Organic Gardening" as the "Editor's Choice", and the magazine is out now.. we thought we had until the end of the month, but the 260,000 subscription base got their copy, so we be busy!!

The sad news:
Until we get the new customer service center set up.. my work station has been hyjacked for order taking.. I can check in at night, but I'm working to add more partners and increase production capacity... barely time to do my shooting practice!!!

So, I'll be reading, and comment when I can...

The other good news:

I'll have more money for new Air Rifles!!

Sorry PA.... I did order a new Benji multi-shot... I'll get one from you too, when you get them..

It looks like the older Air Arms s310..
Anyway,
got to go!!

Blessing everyone!

Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range

 
At January 13, 2009 11:21 AM, Blogger CJr said...

Thanks everyone for your blog comments and compliments.

Has anyone tried to mount one of these on an IZH-61:

Daisy 5899 Receiver Sight (stock date 1/16)

Daisy Avanti Precision Rear Diopter Sight (in stock)

Crosman Precision Diopter Sights (in stock)

Are there any other peep sights I should consider?

I've had the Beeman Sport Aperture Sight on backorder for some time now but I'm wondering if one of these others would work also.

-Chuck

 
At January 13, 2009 11:32 AM, Blogger CJr said...

I should have mentioned in my above comment that I have tried the Mendoza sight but I could not raise POI enough at 10 meters with it.

-Chuck

 
At January 13, 2009 11:35 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cjr,

I mounted the Daisy Avanti Precision Rear Diopter sight to my IZH 61 and it worked very well. However, since my IZH has the new plastic receiver, it kept on slipping out. I finally had to use JB Weld epoxy to keep it in place.

I believe the Crossman and Air Arms Diopter rear sight are identical to the Daisy.

Love my Izzy...hope you too will enjoy the litele black Russian beauty.

Stingray

 
At January 13, 2009 11:45 AM, Blogger kevin said...

Wayne,

Glad to hear about your boost in business. Congratulations!
But, you are missed by many here.

Not me, but many others. ;-)

kevin

ps-thanks again for your generosity the other day.

 
At January 13, 2009 12:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Chuck,

Nice review. I would probably get this gun if I didn't have the real thing. Author Stephen Hunter in his eulogy for the end of production for the Winchester 94 claims that this gun's handling qualities are unsurpassed. I'm inclined to agree and think that even an AR-15 can hardly outdo it.

Yes, that moment when everything is loaded and ready to go and the trigger produces only a click is a chilling one that I remember well.

Regarding the IZH 61, I'm glad to hear that others are enjoying the accuracy of this rifle but sorry that it requires such hassle to achieve with the drilling out and modification of the gun. I would also encourage other solutions if possible because the rapid fire possible with the clip is a real joy. It feels very reminiscent of rapidly working a bolt-action rifle. And I'll say again that the four clips that I've bought have never caused any problems and have furnished fine accuracy. Maybe I got lucky.

Matt61

 
At January 13, 2009 12:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I forgot to add my horrible experience putting peep sights on the IZH 61 which has been my only failure with this gun. The Daisy Precision sight kept slipping off the rail. The Mendoza fit well but wouldn't align properly. The Beeman sport aperture sight seemed like it was on a layer of grease and could not be tightened. However, the Leapers 6x mini Bug Buster scope has been so perfect that I have no regrets. Among other things, this scope does not budge at all.

Matt61

 
At January 13, 2009 12:31 PM, Anonymous Mr B. said...

Wayne, thanks for the update. Congradulations on your Organic Gardner's Editor'd choice award. We can now all say we knew you way back when. Is Kevin right???

 
At January 13, 2009 12:49 PM, Blogger FRED said...

Wayne,

couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Good luck with your expanding business!!!!

Maybe you can spend some of your profits on a nice Talon or BSA.

 
At January 13, 2009 12:57 PM, Blogger UW Hunter said...

Question for anyone who feels qualified to answer: Would it be safe/possible to fill a Discovery with propane? I have heard of people using propane in place of green gas in airsoft and was wondering if it would work in a co2 gun. Also, if this is possible, would the performance be similar to that of co2?

 
At January 13, 2009 1:02 PM, Anonymous Andrew said...

The Leveraction is only offered in 7,5J. The other guns are spring piston, so there is no problem in selling it with a low power piston and exchanging it for exports, manufactering wise. That is totally different for a CO2 gun, where you have to make an entirely new feed for the CO2.

 
At January 13, 2009 1:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

In catching up on the holiday blogs, I finally reached your one about time. While I felt wistful, I'm also surprised that this hasn't come much sooner; the work that goes into this blog is just amazing.

I have a suggestion to help with an orderly retreat from an untenable workload. It would help a lot, I think, not to answer questions from earlier postings, perhaps no further back than the previous week or even anything outside the current day. I draw this from my own experience teaching an online course for the last 7 years or so. I try to take full advantage of the online format to respond rapidly to students to replace face-to-face contact; in some ways, I think that online writing makes for even better communication. So, I respond as quickly as possible to emails and to posts on the discussion board which is divided into weekly topics. But it was immediately clear to me that there was no way that I was going to be able to sustain conversations on all the discussion topics for a whole semester with 20 individuals. How you have done so for years with the whole world is beyond comprehension. I've found that restricting my responses to the current week hasn't hurt anything. The students get responses and everyone seems happy.

In the case of the blog, if each day was rigidly restricted to the topic at hand and barred people like me who introduce tangential things, then I could see keeping conversations open. But given the freedom of topics on any day, there seems to be redundancy built in, and you could save yourself a lot of trouble by closing down past conversations. Moreover, strictly in terms of numbers, responses to the past will likely reach only the individual who is asking the question and loses out the benefit of informing the rest of the audience which I suspect is overwhelmingly focused on the most recent day. I wouldn't be surprised either if you got better questions if they were confined to the current day since it will focus thoughts and engage the synergy of direct conversation rather working in isolation. Of course, there is value in earlier blog questions but if anything has to go, this seems like a prime candidate.

The secret spark that animates people to work in concert and achieve things is an interesting topic by itself of broad relevance in many areas--business, history, the military, a presidency. As to why this blog has turned out as well as it has when most are ghost towns, I'm sure there are many reasons, but the one I want to emphasize is the LIVING VOICE of your responses to comments. Back before the radical identity exposure, I used to think that Tom Gaylord seemed like a great authority and a good guy and it would be ideal if one could interact with him the same way as with B.B. Pelletier who was doing such a good job at PA. For this to actually happen has been ideal. While obviously you can't keep up with the expansion of the blog, it would be good to preserve the responsiveness as much as possible by focusing on the current day and then reducing activity as necessary. It would be good for you, good for us, good for the blog.

But, above all things, make sure you get in your shooting time. For you to be deprived as a result of introducing all of us to this marvelous sport would be grotesquely ironic.

Matt61

 
At January 13, 2009 1:21 PM, Blogger kevin said...

Matt61,

All great points. You're now officially a member of the "Let's figure out how to save B.B. some time" club.

Let's not forget that this is a Pyramyd Air sponsored blog. Designed to further air gun knowledge, encourage individuals to expand their airgun hobby and hopefully increase PA's sales.

You and I (among many others) found our way to the current post and comments and each day thereafter know how to find the new post and new comments. Many of B.B.'s past posts (over 1,000 now) are found by first time visitors via a google search (or other search engine) and they land on a post from 2005. That's where they leave their comments since they don't know any better.

These "first timers" are the future of this blog. For PA's benefit and yours and mine. New Blood!

No question this is a monumental task but closing the door to those old posts I think would be detrimental to all of us. I'm hoping B.B. will be more selective in answers he provides that benefit all of us and still encourage the newbies to visit all of us on the current post.

kevin

 
At January 13, 2009 1:41 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

Kevin,

I notice you've been doing a great job of jumping in there and helping BB answer questions. I agree with you about the old posts.

.22 multi-shot

 
At January 13, 2009 1:43 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

UW Hunter,

I'll put it this way. I wouldn't use propane in a Discovery (or any PCP) and I can't recommend it to anyone since propane is flammable.

.22 multi-shot

 
At January 13, 2009 1:44 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

Matt61,

There is more R/C information for you on yesterdays comments.

.22 multi-shot

 
At January 13, 2009 1:53 PM, Blogger kevin said...

.22 multi-shot,

Right back at ya. Good job.

kevin

 
At January 13, 2009 2:02 PM, Anonymous twotalon said...

UW Hunter...
Propane has a vapor pressure of 110 psi at 70 degrees. That is not going to blow a pellet out of the barrel.
Lets's see.....some air in tank, propane in tank...propane plus air equals that hot blue stuff that comes off the end of my torch.
One Darwin award coming up.

twotalon

 
At January 13, 2009 2:18 PM, Blogger FRED said...

UW Hunter,

on the surface, the molecular weight of Propane is almost the same as CO2 or .0044 kg/mol. The Discovery valve "should" work given the fact it's designed for Co2 as well as air (.00288). When the propane is released, it "should" cool down due to expansion but then again, you're dealing with someone who got a "C" in thermodynamics, so "perhaps" auto-ignition will not be a problem. Notice the use of the words "should" and "perhaps"? I don't know and I'm hedging here.

Perhaps EJ, who seems to be a better student than I was, and Ms. Hanson might address this before you try it and end up without any eyebrows, or worse.

Here's a link to the winners of the 2008 Darwin Awards:

http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2008.html

Stick to CO2 for now. I think I speak for all when I say we'd like to continue to see you on this blog.

 
At January 13, 2009 2:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Andrew,

Nice retort, but...

Once again it is a "manufacturing choice" to only offer it in 7.5joules, in the same way that Crosman "choses" to only offer the 1077 in .177 caliber.

You stated it had to do with German legal limits. CO2 guns are easily modifiable in the same way that the Walther 1250 Dominator, and RWS 850 Magnumum are engineered for the countries/areas they are exported to.

Its a 7.5joule gun,...yes, but only creativity is limiting Walther from allowing modification to the product. Its not "impossible", its Walther's/Umarex's "choice".

I'm done.

 
At January 13, 2009 2:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Propane? In an airgun?

I don't want to shoot, anywhere near you,...or even share lunch.

 
At January 13, 2009 2:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kevin and .22 multi-shot,

It's been long enough, in my mind, since I joined that I had forgotten just how people get to the blog. I don't even remember myself. But it seems to me that anyone who makes their way here will at least check in on the current day if he likes what he finds.

Anyway, I think that there might be an objective way to get some clarification on the issues you raise. Some data mining expert--not even an expert really--could analyze things like how the hits on different blog topics are distributed and whether the composition of posters to past topics are new or old. I think some ways to proceed might follow clearly from the results. For instance, if most hits in a given time frame are concentrated in the current day and the posters to old topics are regulars that might be reason not to answer old topics. But if the hits are spread out among blog topics and there are a lot of new people on the old topics that might be a reason to keep up old postings. It shouldn't be hard for a webmaster to come up with this data, and this would be a way to replace uncertainty with some hard information and a workable solution--one of the themes of the blog that I have picked up.

Speaking of which, so .22 multi-shot, you are the RC expert that I remember. My respect grows by leaps and bounds. Thanks for your info. Out of due respect for the airgun focus here, even I have to admit this is a little tangential, so I will not pursue this as much as I would like. But thanks for the information. I had been wondering if CA and superglue are the same thing. Let's just say that superglue in a controlled way looks like it will play a role in my solution which may include toothpick reinforcement or a more complicated sawing and fitting job. If I actually get this to work, that would really be something. Thanks again.

Matt61

 
At January 13, 2009 3:11 PM, Anonymous Mr B. said...

Spiro M. Welcome to what we hope will become a vital part of your air gun experience--this blog! You need to check out PyramydAir.com and look at item#: LEMNY-DNTOWL, which is a UTG Scope Mount Base. This wonderful thing will keep the scope of your choice from moving due to your gun's recoil. You will also need to purchase Weaver style rings to attach your scope to this base. I've got low rings on mine with a Leapers Accushot 3 - 12 X 44 30MM Tube Range Estimating Scope. Let us know what type of pellet you end up shooting. My 350 is a .22 which likes JSB Diabolo Exacts.

 
At January 13, 2009 3:20 PM, Anonymous Mr B. said...

UW Hunter, it should would add new meaning to the sayings, "Let's go fire off a couple of rounds" or possibly, "Fire for effect." Seriously though, I wouldn't try it. Mr B.

 
At January 13, 2009 3:22 PM, Anonymous Mr B. said...

Wayne, thanks for the update. Con-gradulations on the Organic Gardner's Editor's choice. We can all say that we knew you way back when. Mr B.

 
At January 13, 2009 3:41 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

Wayne,

Good to hear about your business success! My sister-in-law had to close one of her stores last year and didn't do too well this holiday season with the remaining store.

As for the Marauder (Benji multi-shot), I've been curious about what is going on with the AOA announcement. I needed to call Crosman anyway, so I just asked them about it. The person I talked to didn't know whether AOA "jumped the gun" or not, but did say that the Marauder probably won't be available until May.

Soooo the bad news is that you won't get your gun soon :(. The good news is that you can cancel your order and get on Pyramyd's back order list instead of the other guy's :)! Just kidding ... maybe.

.22 multi-shot

 
At January 13, 2009 3:49 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

Matt61,

The nice thing about having comments grouped under a subject is that if I forget the information, I have a single blog entry I can look under. I can also look back under that entry for more expertise that may have been added!

Sorry, I'm not an R/C expert, just aspiring. My friend, however, is.

Thanks,
.22 multi-shot

 
At January 13, 2009 3:56 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

CJr,

Great "personal impressions" review! This gun, along with the S&W 586, are two I would like to have just for fun.

.22 multi-shot

 
At January 13, 2009 4:59 PM, Blogger ajvenom said...

Nice Job on the blog Chuck!!!!!

My uncle has a Winchester 94. I think it's a .32 special if that sounds right. I don't believe it's the 32-40. But it definately is an awsome rifle. Daisy makes a 94 BB gun that look pretty nice too. But I bet the 94 pellet rifle is more accuarate and realistic.

AS for sights you came to the right place. I guess I should have asked a few more questions before I bought one today. I bought the crosman sight set for my Daisy 953. I use RWD Meistekelgn Rifle Match and I do very well with a scope. The JSB Exact Heavy rule with near perfect one hole 5 round groups some times. I need to fully mod the trigger someday. I can't affort top shelf, but I don't want to pay good money for junk either.

Daisy 5899 Receiver Sight (stock date 1/16) Too much slack in the gears from what I hear in the reviews.

Daisy Avanti Precision Rear Diopter Sight (in stock) Now made in China and had problems starting out. QC from what I suspect.

Crosman Precision Diopter Sights (in stock) This is the set I ordered. Came with a front Globe and one 22mm insert I believe. I asked PA, since it still had the Gamo circle on the mounting bracket where they used to say Gamo, if they were still made in Spain and they said "yes they were." Other target forums have noticed this too and said the quality was still good. Not a bad deal if the front hood works out.

Are there any other peep sights I should consider?
The AirForce Peep sight 10M set looks supreme. If I had a Daisy Avanti 753/853 this would be nice because this sight is approved by the National 3-Position Air Rifle Council for Sporter Class competition.

As for Beeman I don't hear too much about that sight.

Oh Well. Good LUCK CHUCK!!! Let us know what works out.

-AJ

 
At January 13, 2009 6:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

All people interested with shotguns,

After more than a year of experimenting, I've finally got the formula to SAFELY reload shells. The trick was you MUST use the brass adapter (it seals better than used shells) and reuse old shot wads.
First load 1 shot wad, second put 18-14gr. of shot (4.5mm steel shot works great and surprisingly doesn't do any damage after 10rounds so far), in most cases I recommend lead shot under #6 in size, after loading the shot place another shot wad behind every thing else. REMEMBER to take a 6mm soft air pellet and compress it against the rear wad. This will expand the wad and create more resistance. Using 3 4.5mm steel bbs, my shadow express got 558fps (I haven't tested variation yet but I imagine it's more than when using a pellet). The amazing thing is the penetration, all 3bbs went through a half inch of pine at 8yards, also the group size was just 2inches. Previous loading methods always made a loud crack with my gun. This is relatively quiet, but the recoil is a wake up call. BB thanks for responding yesterday, I cleaned every nook and cranny and now it is smooth again.
Shadow express dude

 
At January 13, 2009 6:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Knife sharpeners! I have come across a radical new standard of sharpness. There's apparently an organization called the American Bladesmith Society or something like that which offers a master-level certification in everything to do with knife craftsmanship. These are the keepers of the ultimate in quality. The test includes taking a Bowie knife that you have hand-forged yourself, cutting an inch thick hemp rope with it, hacking through a two by four, then laying the blade flat on your forearm and shaving off hair with it.

Naturally, this isn't really the end either. There was some person listed in the 1936 Ripley's Believe It Or Not who used a knife of his own make to chop apart metal car parts then cleanly slice paper. But he died without telling anyone his forging secrets. Someone has recently claimed to be able to do it.

I'm at the level of honing with micrograin sandpaper and stropping with green compound, but it's nice to know what's possible.

.22 Multi shot, I don't deny that there's a lot of information on old posts, but I was thinking more in terms of radical solutions so that we don't lose B.B.'s input altogether. You won't find me working 18 hours a day, not even on airguns.

Matt61

 
At January 13, 2009 6:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wayne-
I'm jealous you already ordered the benjamin? Can you PLEASE inform me that, that 1/2g price tag includes a pump? My hopes and patience are running out. Are or is? Never good with verb agreement:-(

 
At January 13, 2009 6:27 PM, Anonymous BG_Farmer said...

CJr.,
Nice personalized look at a cool rifle. I've been tempted by it many times but the cost and (more importantly) the CO2 have saved me. Maybe I'll find an old "Spittin' Image" rifle.

I have problems with the Mendoza sight as well, although its spot on from 35 yards and over.

SED,
You are a genius with that shotgun...probably the only one who has tapped its potential. Did you make a Turkey choke, yet:)?

 
At January 13, 2009 7:46 PM, Blogger UW Hunter said...

Everyone who gave some ideas of the possibility of using Propane in a co2 gun.

I was not planning on actually using propane in a co2 gun myself and actually don't even own a co2 gun, I was just curious if it was a potential option since I have heard of people using it in airsoft guns (and I think B.B. even mentioned it in another post). Maybe there is something very different about airsoft and pellet guns. I was just curious. I would never actually do it, even if everyone on this blog told me it was fine! Co2 is dirt cheap and propane isn't. Plus, when I buy a Discovery, I'll get the one with the pump and probably not even use co2. But thanks for the constructive and intelligent conversation about why it would or would not work.

 
At January 13, 2009 7:55 PM, Anonymous Volvo said...

Wayne,

I’m also guessing that your Marauder is not in stock yet, but at least you’ll be first in line.

Congratulations on the accolades for your raised beds. Let me know if you need representation in the Midwest. I can sell anything…

Anonymous – I think the stand-alone rifle is $499

 
At January 13, 2009 8:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.,
Was wondering if you might be able to comment on any first hand experience with the new crosman marauder?

heghsne

 
At January 13, 2009 8:21 PM, Anonymous Vince said...

Yes, propane is used for airsoft - because the plastic BB's are a LOT lighter and don't need nearly as much pressure as a pellet gun. Plus, there's no rifling to engrave.

In the mixed gas/liquid phase (which CO2 and propane guns use) CO2 has several times the pressure of propane. The only way to get propane's pressure up to something usable is to heat it up quite a bit.

Plain and simple, it is just the wrong substance for the job.

 
At January 13, 2009 8:28 PM, Blogger UW Hunter said...

Thanks Vince!
That's the kind of answer I was looking for.

 
At January 13, 2009 8:54 PM, Blogger kevin said...

Anonymous,

Re: B.B.'s first hand experience with the new Crossman Marauder

If you're referring to the new Benjamin Marauder I think B.B. said he expected to receive a new Benjamin Marauder to test several weeks after the shot show. Shot show starts tomorrow in Florida, I think. Probably at least 3 weeks and likely more. But I'll bet we read about B.B.'s take on this new, interesting rifle long before they're available for purchase.

I can't wait!

kevin

 
At January 13, 2009 9:00 PM, Blogger kevin said...

Matt61,

You've sure got some great idea's about managing the blog.

Are you using a leather strop and veritas honing compound (green compound as you stated)??? If so you're fanatical about an edge. This is surgical instrument territory and we have something in common.

You sure you cut your finger on a model airplane?

kevin

 
At January 13, 2009 9:11 PM, Anonymous DB said...

CJr,
Nicely done. Nothing like a cowboy gun to bring the kid out in all of us. I’d be doing the Rifleman hip shots for sure.

Airdog,
Loading your IZH61 with tweezers… you really do value accuracy over form.

Wayne,
Sorry got real busy over the weekend and forgot to email you. Will get to it. Congrats on you business success.

DB

 
At January 13, 2009 10:44 PM, Anonymous Dr. G. said...

B.B.,

I hear a lot of readers exhorting you to slow down, take it easy, smell the roses, and don't work so hard.

I would not agree, as I think that few things are nobler than putting the needs of many others' ahead of one's own.

You have clearly generated lots of happiness for lots of people through this blog, and I have little doubt that you have increased the Company's profits significantly. I would guess that for every miserable afternoon you have experienced due to overwork, you have created 100 individual pleasant experiences of 20 minutes apiece. And for every weekend that you could not do what you wanted to with your personal life, you undoubtedly helped enriche several PA executives (and probably helped their families live a bit better) and probably stimulated enough busines to help keep people in jobs at PA as well.

There are many ramifications of the Good that you create from your blog...by helping all these readers relax and enjoy their sport, they are probably better fathers and husbands. There are probably more kids that have spent more fun time with airguns and/or parents because of something that you initiated on your blog that you don't know about than there are bad hours that you have suffered from overwork.

Anyway, I applaud any sacrifices that you have chosen and continue to choose to make for the greater good. I hope that you will soon be getting a raise from PA and that some financial remuneration from this blog will come your way from unexpected places and connections. But even if not, I am sure that you are gratified and fulfilled from doing such an effective job and from helping so many grateful people for such a long period of time.

- Dr. G.

 
At January 13, 2009 11:31 PM, Blogger kevin said...

At January 13, 2009 10:25 PM, Joe B. said...
Impressions of Crosman's 2250 carbine, Part 3:

Some fun with the 2250:
I was just outside, plinking with the 2250 (I’ve stopped adding the ‘B’ to the model number. Over the years this should save me from Carpal Tunnel Syndrome…).

Anyway. I chose a tin can, a soft aluminum soda can, and a plastic water bottle. It was pretty much as I remember it from the 1980s. You hit the cans right at the top or bottom seam and they really move. Hit the top and the can spins away end over end. Hit the bottom and it leaps into the air. Hit either of these two spots when the can is horizontal and it spins deliciously. I filled the bottle with tap water and shot it from 7 paces. I expected it to ‘explode’ but it didn’t. The pointed field hunting pellet merely passed through 3” of water and plastic and exited cleanly out the other side. I think a wadcutter or hollow point would have given me more ‘explosive’ force.

And now, a word from our sponsor: Crosman’s CrosBlock ‘Tamper Resistant Deterrent’:
I now have 7 of these little plastic trigger ‘locks’, from other Crosman air guns I’ve bought these past three years. When I saw how loose this one was on the 2250, I laughed. Surely I could just pull the trigger with the device still in place? I couldn’t. Crosman’s stock rose a bit in my eyes.

Always before I’d assumed that the CrosBlock key was called a key because you pushed it in and turned it in the lock. Uh-uh. I twisted many a key out of shape before finally noticing that the key had ‘PUSH’ printed on it. I pushed and the lock opened…simple as that. An otherwise intelligent shooter, I now feel like a CrosBlockHead. And yes, it did make me feel a bit cross….

So I dropped a handful of pellets in my right hand pocket, grabbed the rifle and targets and headed out into the yard. The first thing that happened was that the rifle under my arm wiggled out of the dishtowel that I’d rubber banded to the skeleton stock (to raise my head to the scope) and fell into the grass. I was prepared to shoot a wad of dirt from the muzzle without a pellet but the only dirt was a little bit on the side of the muzzle, which was easily wiped off. I rubber banded the towel more tightly and was good to go. Oddly enough the scope was still set correctly. I don’t know why, but scopes and me tend not to get along. At night, after I’m asleep, the windage and elevation settings reset themselves, leaving me frustrated and deeply confused in the morning. This time was the surprise to that rule.

I know last time I promised to count my shots, to see how many I’d get from a fresh CO2 cylinder at 3100’, at 68 degrees here on the flank of Maui’s Mt. Haleakala. But this was an impromptu plinking session, and I just didn’t feel like it. I promise I will do so in a future session.

I mentioned last time that I was going to read the instructions to see how to get a sharper target picture. They told me, in 4 different languages, to loosen the eyepiece locking ring, aim the scope at a wall or open sky, and ‘rotate [the] eyepiece left and right as needed until the reticle appears sharp and clear to you’. I did rotate it. And rotate it. And rotate it some more. The reticle appeared sharp and clear no matter how much I twisted it back and forth. However, after I locked it back in place, the cans I was shooting from 25 paces away did not. Was it me or the scope? I set it at 4x and started shooting. I noticed, strangely, that when I was target shooting, the target would suddenly blip into sharp focus and then right back out again. I assume this is some adjustment my eye was doing.

I was getting more comfortable with operating the rifle. I pulled the bolt up and back with the edge of my right index finger between the first joint and the knuckle. I held the rifle with the bbl slightly elevated (otherwise the bolt slides home by itself), reached into my pocket with my right hand and retrieved a pellet. The pointed pellets were front heavy, so that sometimes they would tumble into the loading port sideways. I also noted that the bolt would encounter resistance sometimes when trying to slide the pellet home. I simply retracted the bolt slightly and it would slide smoothly home then. Sometimes I would turn the muzzle downwards after placing a pellet in the loading port and it and the bolt would slide easily closed…I just had to turn the bolt down. It was easy to get into a rhythm of cocking, loading and shooting, which I found enjoyable and relaxing. The one major difference I found between shooting now and shooting then is that I shake more now. I have familial hereditary tremors, diagnosed when I was in the Army, and they get worse with age (except when I fast, at which point they disappear completely). So I prefer to shoot from a rest; it’s much more fun for me that way. I could shoot from a kneeling position, but at 62 I keep hurting my knees by dancing twice a week (they don’t hurt WHILE I’m dancing, but they sure complain several hours later, and all through the week). Anyway, when shooting, I held the gun with my left hand cradled around the filler cap, part of the fore end and part of the bbl itself. This felt the sturdiest and also just plain felt ‘right’.

Installing a new CO2 cartridge: The manual suggests you turn the filler cap finger tight, shoot the gun without a pellet and, if you don’t hear a healthy popping sound, to tighten the cap again and repeat the shot. But I read Michael in Florida’s comment to me that, “the current crop of Crosman CO2 guns use the valve stem to pierce the CO2 Powerlet, so don’t over tighten the CO2 cap. I heard you mention that you would tighten it with a quarter. Finger tight is all you need. The first shot is weak because it pierces the Powerlet and fills the valve with CO2. If you over tighten, you compress the soft seal and restrict the valve stem, resulting in a very small hole in the Powerlet, and in most cases, reduced FPS by restricting the movement of the valve stem.
” So I suggest now that you fire TWO blank shots after installing a new CO2 cartridge. The first one will sound weak, but the 2nd should sound healthy and you’re good to go. Don’t forget to add that drop of Pellgunoil to the tip of the cartridge. For the first time that I’ve noticed, Crosman tells you to do this in their instruction manual.

I am still sooo happy with this gun. Once again, after shooting, I oiled the gun and scope and put it away. It is like tucking someone I love tenderly into bed.

I also remembered to wash the lead dust off my fingers, especially before eating anything.

 
At January 14, 2009 12:25 AM, Anonymous wayne said...

Everybody,

Thanks for the kind words... It's a blessing to start the season so early.
I can't believe it.. no practice today.. just enough time to try out Vince's rebuild jobs on the old classics he's fixing up.. Wow folks, he is good.. Thunk after thunk.. I'm loving them Vince!!! you be the man!!! There's more on the way.. but I haven't had time to shop lately.. I might have to send you a card, and let you do the shopping too!

The AOA sight is pretty tricky.. They say nothing about in stock or not.. so one assumes that it is in stock..maybe they got an early order somehow, so one orders... and gets an email that says thanks for your order.. and that's it.. no estimated ship date... I had no time to call today, I just ordered on line late last night... Like I usually do with PA... PA might always be slipping the ship date.. but at least they put one up!

I better not see a hit on my card before it ships..and I'm hearing that could be May???? HHHMMMM...

We will see, if I was clever or not..

btw.. great job on the blog today.. guest blogger and comments too!! There is an amazing group mind here!!!

Wayne
Ashland Air Rifle Range

 
At January 14, 2009 12:38 AM, Anonymous Joe B. said...

That's interesting...how did Kevin's name get attached to my review of the 2250? And the date/time info...where did THAT come from?

I wonder if Blogger is feeling alright. This morning I spent a long time composing a msg about my experience with 2 Daisy M94s, plus my own M94 .30-.30. I PREVIEWed it 3 times, to make certain it looked just right. When I hit PUBLISH, I got a warning box saying too many people were trying to edit the msg at the same time (?!). Then my comment disappeared. Of course it was a masterpiece of writing (as all lost writings are...). Funny, yet profound, with just the right amount of words.

Alas for us all that it is now gone forever.

Joe B. (I'm signing my name at the bottom here...no telling WHO Blogger will assign it to.)

 
At January 14, 2009 12:47 AM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

Joe B,

No, the blogger gremlins aren't at work. Kevin liked your story so much he copied it here so everyone visiting the most recent entry would see it. He left a comment for you at the original post.

.22 multi-shot

 
At January 14, 2009 1:02 AM, Blogger kevin said...

Joe B.,

I really liked your story and thought it should be shared with everyone. Great job of reporting. I left some other comments/questions for you where you originally posted if you have time to go back and read.

Your name still appears on the comment but my name appears bigger. Sorry. Please send me a bill for any copyright infringement. Wasn't intentional I assure you. Your stories are better than mine anyway.

kevin

ps-thanks .22 multi-shot

 
At January 14, 2009 1:10 AM, Blogger kevin said...

Dr. G.,

Enlightening viewpoint and very eloquently stated.

Always appreciate your observations.

kevin

 
At January 14, 2009 7:38 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

$499 (you might as well say $500) for a Benjamin Marauder, and you probably won't be able to use a 10% coupon?
None for me thanks. For $540 (with discount), I could get an Evanix Renegade (more power, and better multishot with revolving style magazine with trigger pull).
Its all personal choice, but for $40 difference, I would spend my money more wisely. Just my humble opinion.
Don't get caught up in the hype.

 
At January 14, 2009 8:34 AM, Blogger kevin said...

Anonymous,

Re: New Benjamin Marauder value

I'm looking forward to B.B.'s review of the new Benjamin Marauder. Like you, I don't want to be influenced by the hype.

Think I'll wait for the facts before forming any opinions or making any decisions.

Another countdown in order?

kevin

 
At January 14, 2009 9:19 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are a smart man Kevin, and I will attempt to exemplify your level of intelligence and wait for more facts also.
If a standalone Discovery is $239 (good value), and if the Marauder "theoretically" will cost $499, there needs to be more than just a multi-shot bolt action breech to justify the $260 difference.
I don't need to over pay to be the first to own something. I wait for things to fall to their true market price point. Some companies get excited, and price themselves right out of the race, even in questionable economic times.
Once again, just my humble opinion.

 
At January 14, 2009 10:23 AM, Blogger kevin said...

Anonymous,

Re: Marauder "needing more than a multi-shot bolt action breech to justify the $260 difference"

Agreed. And hope I'm not stealing thunder, But according to a reliable site, the new Benjamin Marauder's design addresses other common objections that shooters had with the discovery, i.e., poor fitting/finished stock (is that checkering on the grip and forearm?), poor trigger (new Marauder apparently has a new two stage, adjustable match grade trigger pack with metal trigger), noisy (new Marauder apparently has a choked and internally shrouded barrel giving you "ultra quiet operation") and the Marauder apparently is a little more powerful than the discovery. No one seems to know whether the $500.00 price for the Marauder includes a pump like the "bundled" option for the discovery. Interesting that you post the gun and price on your web site and don't know what you're selling? Oh well. Capitalism.

These improvements may be worth $260.00 more to me but I'll still wait for B.B.'s review.

kevin

 
At January 14, 2009 11:30 PM, Anonymous Joe B. (I think...) said...

"I really liked your story and thought it should be shared with everyone. Great job of reporting. I left some other comments/questions for you where you originally posted if you have time to go back and read."

Hi Kevin,

Um...I thought this WAS where I originally posted it. Where did you, and apparently everyone else, find it (under which original post of B.B.'s)?

"Sorry. Please send me a bill for any copyright infringement."

No payment needed. Tell the truth, I was secretly pleased that you found my story good enough to share. WherEVER it was you originally found it....

"Your stories are better than mine anyway."

Aw, shucks. Now you go too far.

-Joe B.

 
At February 05, 2010 6:07 AM, Blogger The Big Bore Addict said...

B.B.,

I just saw an advertisement for something for this gun.

An "Umarex Barrel Band for CO2 Walther Lever Action Rifle."
$18.33

Is there any advantage to adding this to this gun?



Thank you,

BBA

 
At February 05, 2010 6:58 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

BBA,

I'd say no. It sounds like a repair part rather than a modification. But what advantage it might have is beyond me.

B.B.

 
At February 12, 2010 4:08 AM, Blogger The Big Bore Addict said...

B.B.,

The ad showed one that looked different, & I've heard of people taking the one on the Marauder off, so that's what peaked my curiosity.
However, I think you're right about this, as the gun DOES come with one stock, & I too can't see how a wider one would give any advantage either. Thanks for confirming this.


P.S.

To any who may come across this any time soon... Just an FYI, but PA is currently selling the Wells Fargo Special Edition of this gun that has the beautiful hardwood stock and polished brass receiver with a Western illustration, for only $329.99 which is priced even LESS than the regular version!

So if you've been thinking of picking one up, right now you can get the best looking version for the best price you'll probably ever see on it again.



BBA

 

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