News from the 2009 IWA

Introduction by B.B. Pelletier

Guest blogger
Mel is a European blog reader who visited the 2009 IWA show–that’s the European SHOT Show. He was kind enough to write this guest blog and provide these photos for us so we could take a peek at some different airguns. If you’d like to write a guest post for this blog, please email me.

Bloggers must be proficient in the simple html that Blogger software uses, know how to take clear photos and size them for the internet (if their post requires them), and they must use proper English. We will edit each submission, but we won’t work on any submission that contains gross misspellings and/or grammatical errors.

News from the 2009 IWA
by Mel

I had the opportunity to visit the IWA in Nuremberg. For those who don’t know, it is Europe’s largest sporting arms and outdoor exhibition and a good place to see what airgun makers have in the pipe. My visit there was not airgun-related, and the following report far from being comprehensive. But if you are interested to see a few of the new developments, join me on a little stroll through the IWA.

Ceska zbrojovka
Let’s start with Czub, maker of the Slavia 631/634 springers and the Cz 200 that most of you know as the Air Arms S200. It is now available with a beautiful adjustable one-piece stock. This model is also fitted with Cz’s diopter and 5-shot bracket magazine. Both accessories are already available.


Cz’s new adjustable stock–and not the last one you’ll see.

Cometa
Cometa is a Spanish company that sells mainly in Europe. Their new Fusion rifle is based on their 400 model and is equipped with an adjustable stock and a muzzlebrake that is meant to increase accuracy by stripping off the turbulent air.


This rifle has a silencer; the original Fusion comes with a small stainless steel brake.

Gamo
Did we have any adjustable stocks yet? The new Gamo SOCOM is another breakbarrel that follows this trend.


Gamo’s new SOCOM rifle. Note the big air pistol advertisement in the background.

Diana
Diana had quite a few new products in their booth. Their new LP8 breakbarrel pistol looks a bit like the pistol equivalent of the Panther 21. Its 580 fps power, scope rail, aluminum frame and the mentioning of its low price makes sure we will hear more of it. Diana also introduced the model 470 Target Hunter–I guess they want a slice of the HW97/TX200 cake! It looks like it uses the model 52 action. Take a look at their catalog for more news. Also, have a look at the new color options for the Panther 21 and the new compact Panther 31 rifles. The catalog is complete except for one new model–the new 56, which is also available with an adjustable stock.

Crosman
I don’t have to tell you Crosman exhibited the new Marauder PCP! Who am I to comment on it? You’ll find high-quality pictures on the Pyramyd Air website and a thorough review by BB when the time comes. And, of course, there was the Recruit–a rifle based on the Powermaster with an adjustable stock.

Norica
Another Spanish manufacturer that exports guns to America–the Hammerli Storm, Razor and Nova rifles plus some Beeman breakbarrels. They decided to put some of their existing models in a glossy red/grey plastic stock:


In case you wondered, the stocks feel just as they look–hard and very smooth.

Based on their big advertisement videos, their new flagship is a new line of bullpup rifles. What looked like a PCP at first glance turned out to have a very conservative single-shot breakbarrel powerplant. Hmm…bullpups get used by military forces because they can have a longer barrel at the same overall length, at the expense of a long linkage between trigger and sear, and a line of sight that sits far above the barrel. The latter is not so bad for a military rifle, it helps to manage recoil and the resulting sighting problems on short ranges are negligible when your target is torso-sized. But a spring-piston airgun has no need for a long barrel. You could build a conventional airgun with the same length as the bullpup without sacrificing power or accuracy–and we tend to shoot at targets that are a lot smaller than the distance between bore and line of sight than Norica’s new bullpup allows. [Editor's note: The problem with bullpup sighting is extreme parallax.]


Here they come in tactical black, digital camouflage green and “Aunt Judy’s psychedelic carpet from the ’60s” brown! The stock is adjustable, of course.

Hatsan
You’ve never heard of Hatsan? Sure you have. Hatsan is big. Think Gamo-big. They make the Daisy spring airguns; they make the new Pneuma PCP sold by Hammerli; they make the Walther Falcon Hunter and the Talon Magnum; and they make the Webley Jaguar, to name just a few! It’s not the topic of my blog entry to discuss my fear what may happen when airgun manufacturers cease to make airguns and slap their names on a wild mix of products made by someone else. So, let’s just say that Hatsan is really, really big and the first thing you see when you enter IWA is a very large Hatsan poster at the entrance.

Their flagships at this IWA were the PCP that has already hit the market, and their Torpedo line of underlever rifles. What makes these guns interesting from a technical point of view is the loading mechanism–the complete barrel can be moved in a sleeve to insert the pellet. [Editor's note: See the new Daisy from the first SHOT Show report this year.] What’s really new is the model 95, a breakbarrel equipped with a shock-absorbing mechanism that seems to be simply a dampening plastic tube around the front screw that holds the action and stock together.

Norconia
Norconia is an importer of the Chinese Norinco airguns to Germany. This sounds like a boring company to US readers, but take a look at what they had in their booth: A real blast from the past–a Sharp Inova! This multi-pump pneumatic with its highly efficient blow-open valve was made in Japan and is now considered a sought-after rarity in the Western world. Production never ceased. It’s made by Cannon Air and ZOSCN, but import stopped long time ago. Seeing this rifle available again will increase the heartbeat of many multi-pump pneumatic fans!


A real (plastic stocked) Sharp Inova! I was allowed to shoot a puff of air with it. I did so without cocking. It definitely has the original hammerless valve.

And now for something completely different
I must admit that I didn’t expect much technical innovation in this economically shaky time. So far it was mostly true–a truckload of adjustable stocks, a traditional PCP here, an underlever version there, but nothing that I’d count as something really new. Until I came to the Armscor booth. For many years, this Philippine company has been the maker of a small line of CO2-powered airguns with the classic Crosman 160-style layout. You know what I mean–single-shot CO2, bolt pulls back, striker for the knock-open valve, etc. Frankly, this was not the place where I expected to find something out of the ordinary. But there it was–a beautiful .22 caliber PCP with an unusual mechanism. Mr. Chua, the chief designer, was in the booth and allowed me to handle the rifle. One could clearly see that he was proud of it and liked it a lot, which seems a good sign to me.


The picture was taken with permission from the Armscor page. You won’t find airguns and pellets so close together at IWA!

What makes the rifle so special is its cocking and loading mechanism: A breech part swings to the side to give access to the free-floated barrel. This design carries a lot of advantages in it: First, there’s no bolt probe behind the pellet, and the air passage channel in the breech part is curved. Both considerably increase the efficiency. Second, you can inspect the bore visually. Third, you can load a pellet without having to cock the rifle, which can be done when the rifle is already on the cheek by gently pushing the hammer with the thumb. The external hammer can also be decocked if needed. The power is adjustable with a wrench, but Mr. Chua said the rifles will be factory set for a 60-shot string at 850-750 fps (with normal weight lead pellets), as faster pellets enter the trans-sonic range and become less accurate. Thus, the rifle is advertised at the average 800 fps. What refreshing and rare honesty in today’s airgun world! Other than that, it has a very good trigger, a threaded muzzle end, pressure gauge on the underside and a removable air tank with quick-fill valve on the front. I couldn’t shoot it to test the velocity and, much more important, the accuracy. The PDF on their page looks promising but isn’t proof. I left their booth feeling that this rifle will quickly win a lot of hearts when it is sold in the Western world!

76 thoughts on “News from the 2009 IWA

  1. Everyone,

    Peter Mansfield is an Australian who needs some help. This is his question:
    ———————-
    I greatly appreciate your articles, well written and informative, thanks!
    After a story last January on Gamo CF-X with a gas spring, someone asked if you would consider a post on a DIY on this gun. Although I have read most of your posts, I haven’t seen this one, did you ever write it?
    I am interested in upgrading my CF-X but as I live in Australia its not practical to send the rifle to Pyramid for installation.
    Thanks, Pete
    ——————-

    I told him I don’t have a CF-X to do this report. Can anybody help him?

    B.B.


  2. Norica looks to have some nice and not expensive air rifles.

    As you can see in:
    http://www.norica.es/index.php?opt=2&id=324&bs=&spos=0pt#
    (refresh if you get a database error)

    They have the Storm which they say it have 24 Joules (18ft-lb).
    (You can see it in specefications)

    In Portugal there is a shop that sells it for just 180€. Very cheap for a rifle with a stock from wood.

    I hope the is no detonations or excess dieseling to get 24J.

    My Gamo as almost all Gamo are a 21J (15-16 ft-lb) rifle.

    In spain there is a limitation of 24 Joules on air rifles without license.

    Here in Portugal we are just limited to 5.5mm (.22) and speed at the muzzle of 360m/s which is a lot…
    But for field target we must use an air rifle with up to 24J.

    Regards.



  3. ZeChico, I looked at the exploded view of the Norica Storm (off the link you provided), and it appears the be the same action as the Norica Marvic/Beeman GS1000 – including the very good trigger. If I’m right and the powerplant is indeed the same, 24J should be a very realistic figure for muzzle energy without any help from excess oil burning.


  4. B.B. (or anyone). A friend of mine was over last night to do some shooting. He brought with him an air rifle from his youth, about 35 years ago.
    We are wondering if it is worth fixing up…or if it should just go into the memento closet.
    Is small…maybe 32″. It is made in Czechoslovakia and has the name ‘Liberty’ on it. As well it has the same little insignia, a pistol in a circle that my Slavia 630 has…so I’m assuming it is a Slavia of some sort.
    It’s in good shape, and seems to be a nice little shooter except of course it has never seen any kind of lubricant.
    We’re thinking of using it as a test for everything we’ve read here lately on rebuilding old airguns…new seals and perhaps a new spring.
    So does anyone know anything of this rifle, and does it sound like a reasonable project?
    CowBoyStar Dad


  5. B.B. or anyone with an answer ,

    I have an Air Hawk that seems to have a lot of pellets to seat kind of loose in the breech. I have done some research on the internet but it seems I can only find skirt diameters on the Beeman pellets. Can anyone reccomend the widest skirt pellet that is accurate ?? Or a link to show pellet skirt diameters in .177 so I can choose the widest one ??? Thank you in advance !!!



  6. CowBoyStar Dad… the old Slavia’s were nice lil’ shooters, and very good trainers for kids. Fortunately they are also simple and low-powered, both of which make them very easy to work on. Unless the barrels have been damaged by rust or by using steel BB’s, they are very accurate over short ranges.

    I’ve worked on a few of them and have always found that the leather seals are still usable. The gun might not need anything more than a good dose of 30wt non-detergent oil into the chamber and let it soak overnight.

    If you want to tear into it, by all means. You don’t need anything more than the aforementioned oil and some lighter-bodied grease for the spring (don’t use tar on a lil’ pup like this one!). You’ll probably want to lightly clean up the inside of the tube if it needs it. But being a low powered, leather-sealed gun it will be very tolerant of imperfections. If you overlube it the worse that will happen is that the gun will spew excess from the muzzle or the cocking slot… it’s not gonna go ‘BANG!’ on you like a Gamo or Panther will.

    If it needs a spring, that can be a bit of a problem. Joe Groenwals can order them from overseas for about $35, if I remember right. But the ones I’ve worked on never needed a spring.

    Hope this helps.


  7. RE: Skirt Diameters

    David,

    Take a look at:
    http://straightshooters.com/documents/pelletcomparison.html

    Questions to you:
    (1) Do you have a chrony? If so what velocity are you getting?

    (2) What sort of grouping are you getting with what pellet?

    (3) Instead of being transfixed on skirt diameter, have you just tried an assortment of pellets to see what shoots best? Having no experience with your rifle at all, I’d guess (from what seems to be the better pellets) that CPs, RWS Domes, or JSP Exacts would be among the best pellets.

    Herb



  8. Mel,
    What an excellent article! I’m impressed that even though you weren’t there for the airguns you were able to report so well on them, with information that only an airgun enthusiast would know was important. Thank you very much for spending some time with us!

    I am amazed at the extent of air gunning outside of the US (even realizing that most our guns come from somewhere else in the world). I have such a narrow view of the world.

    Thanks again Mel!

    -Chuck


  9. Herb,

    I do have a chrony and I am averaging 917 fps. with 8.2 gr. Meister’s… ( shimmed breech seal ). So far they seem to be the tightest fitting ones out of the various pellets I have tried. I bought the RWS sampler pack and various Gamo and Crosman pellets and those seem to fit the tightest but I still have some loose ones !!

    I can get about a half inch group at 20 yards ( max range for my backyard ) but I am still getting a flier or two out of a five shot group and was wondering if a tighter fitting pellet would fix this to be more consistent ??

    Thank you for the link and I will look now !!


  10. Vince, yes 24J should be realistic, since its nothing new for a springer to have 24J or 18ft-lb even in .177.

    I just remembered the somehow fiasco that is the gamo extreme that used detonation to get 1600fps with PBA as BB reported…


  11. Thanks Vince…exactly what I wanted to hear.
    The thing seems pretty accurate at 30′. The only thing we noticed is that when using my 853 or Slavia 630 at this distance the sound of the rifle firing and the pellet hitting the trap is instantaneous…whereas this little thing was had a definite lag…about the same as my kids Red Ryder (say 350 fps).
    So from your experience Vince is this in the ballpark?
    Thanks.
    CowBoyStar Dad


  12. I forgot to said that this is indeed an excelent post.

    @Herb, about software that calculates bullet/pellet trajectory:
    Some said that they need to use a higher BC for the trajectory to be realistic.
    I wonder if the software ignores the friction that is around the pellet (because the wall of air around it) and causes the pellet to drop slower.

    The fastest the pellet flies the denser the wall of air is and slower it should drop.

    You that are a pro in physics, what do you think?



  13. David,
    I was shooting my AirHawk just last night and I was using Meisterkuglens 8.2gr. They fit snug 99% of the time and are good pellets for accuracy. None of them fell through the barrel. When I get time I'll go through all my pellets and see which ones are snug and which aren't. I do remember one brand that seemed loose and one out of ten would fall right through to the floor. Can't remember now which one because it was one of the first I started with last year. I hope I have some left so I can tell you what they are.

    Rabbitt & Phil,
    I set up the duct seal last night (which was my reason for shooting the AirHawk) and here are my experiences. All my guns rated less than 700fps would barely penetrate the material. The heads were compressed but the fins seemed undamaged and were protruding. It was excellent for measuring my groups because I was measuring the actual pellets rather than merely a hole in a piece of paper. How cool is that? I was finding some pellets in my five shot groups fused together. That made me feel good! I was able to then easily pick all the pellets back out with a flick of a fingernail.

    My Airhawk was shooting in the neighborhood of 900fps. Those pellets were embedded around 1/4" to 1/2" into the material. I could not reach them to remove them. These look like they could be problematic over time, however, I don't shoot that gun or that fast very much.

    When I started out I mashed the blocks of seal together side by side so there were no gaps between them and wrapped one of the plastic wrappers over them. I thought this would hold everything together better and give me something to anchor tape to. I then taped the assembly into a cardboard box.

    I found that the below 700fps pellets would not penetrate the plastic wrapper but would indent it and I could hear them hit the box as they fell. I initially thought this was bad because it smelled of ricochet so I removed the plastic and got the results I mentioned above. I did not try the AirHawk on the plastic to see if it would penetrate.

    Now, I think I might retry the plastic covering to see how much ricochet there really is because if there isn't any or very much it will make pellet cleanup sooo much easier as long as the plastic holds out. Since I bought four pugs I have four plastic sheets and that will last a long time.

    Notice I said pugs? The description on the package said "Duct Seal 1Lb. Pug" I've never seen the unit of Pug before. Is this an electrician's term?

    Next week I hope to buy some more pugs.

    -Chuck


  14. CowBoyStar Dad – Yup. Mid 300′s is pretty typical from what I’ve seen. Sounds like it might not need anything more than some oil dumped in it for the seal.


  15. Mel, thanks a lot. I’ve been thinking that a high quality European gun should be in my collection. That’s one of the reason for my fantasies about the Anschutz target rifle. The S200 stock reminds me of it.

    This post reminded me to look at the Marauder entry for PA. Anyone know what a choked barrel is for? I’ve only heard about it in connection with shotguns so have never paid attention.

    Matt61


  16. The Armscor swinging breech air rifle discussed here is basically a PCP version of an old CO2 airgun design. This design type has widely proliferated in the Philippine airgun cottage industry, ever since it was developed by the late Edylfonso Cardoniga of LD Airguns in the late 1960s. The action is known as the “hammer swing action”, a very simple and strong design. There are other pcp versions of the same design available from many small airgun shops in the country on a custom order basis. I have one in .22 caliber with a Walther-Lothar barrel. You can even have 12 gauge, shotgun versions and .32 caliber, steel ball bearing firing, magazine. repeater smoothbore muskets, both in CO2. I have tested a few of these myself in both stainless steel and high tensile brass versions. The problem with the cottage industry airguns is the lack of any formal engineering design processes, quality control and testing, although I’ve never heard of one blowing up on anybody with the use of CO2. The PCP versions however can be pumped up to 3,000 psi.

    Many LD type airguns also have trigger mechanisms housed only in the wood of the stock! But that never scared off the thousands of Philippne airgunners that have used them over the decades. Many have trigger feels as smooth and light as the metal housed versions. Tell that to the US product liability lawyers!

    These Philipine designs can be quite powerful. One double-barreled, CO2, 12 gauge, air shotguns I tried out, penetrated one side of a steel oil drum and had an effective range of 75 yards. By an old Philippine Presidential Decree promulgated during the 1970s Martial Law era, airguns “may only penetrate a 1/4 inch thick piece of plywood”, whatever that means. There are no qualifications however as to how that can be achieved and measured, with what pressure of gas charge, type of ammo, or plywood to be used, so most manufacturers can pass that vague standard one way or the other.

    It is good that Armscor is producing the basic LD design now, because the company has good engineering experince in both airgun and firearm design. Hopefully they can lead the Philiipine industry in developing repeaters, shotguns and bigbore versions for export in the future, and surpass the Europeans and Koreans in airgun production.

    References: Blue Book of Airguns, 7th edition.


  17. The choked barrel of an airgun keeps the pellet always tight in the barrel. This gives you a very low velocity variance.

    Nice to hear you liked the article, folks!



  18. Mel,
    Spot on, those armscor products are dirt cheap and reliable. I'd put my RIA 1911 against any S&W or EAA product. Do you know if the gamo socom extreme is built on the Hunter extreme action?
    Shadow express



  19. CJr:

    Glad you like the pugs. I’ll have to look at my packages and see if it also says pugs.

    Many people don’t bother cleaning the pellets out and after enough thousands just dump the duct seal and replace. I think I saw on the yellow forum that someone showed that the mass of pellets eventually pushed the rear of his pellet trap out though. So be careful if shooting into a cardboard box.

    I use a small pocket type screwdriver and pick and dig the pellets out of mine. Then I rework the putty back over the holes.

    Rabbitt


  20. ALL,
    Can anyone recommend the remington 597 .22lr, I found one for 167$ with realtree camo. I’m not a huge fan of 10/22s, but there is a rifle varient in stainless steel with a walnut stock and 22inch barrel for 240$ that seems great.
    Shadow express dude


  21. David,
    Here's my pellet fit report. First some definitions of my opinions:

    Too tight – had to cram it in hard.
    Snug – some pressure the whole way
    Medium – fell in to skirt, light pressure to insert tail
    Loose – fell in all the way by itself

    Stats are listed by:
    Name/weight/head dia/skirt/dia/opinion

    Beeman Crow Magnum 8.8g .178 .187 — too tight (way too tight)
    RWS Super Mag ……….9.3g .175 .185 — Snug
    Meisterkugeln …………8.2g .174 .182 — Snug
    Beeman H&N Match…..8.1g .177 .187 — Medium
    Exact Diabolo ………….8.4g .173 .182 — Medium
    RWS R-10 Match ………8.2g .176 .182 — Medium
    Hobby ………………….7.0g .175 .185 — Medium
    RWS Super Point………6.9g .174 .184 — loose
    Daisy Precision Max …7.8g no stats — loose
    Gammo Match ………..7.7g no stats — loose

    (Whew! Column alignment is a bear!)

    The Daisy Precision and the Gamo Match both had pellets that would fall through the barrel.

    Except for the Daisy and the Gamo, none would shake back out if I turned the gun over and tried to shake out the pellet I had just inserted. The RWS Super Point I could knock back out by striking the gun on the table (gently of course).

    I hope this helps some. Could be our barrels are bored differently or yours has been shot more. I haven't had mine a year yet. Maybe 500 pellets through it.

    -Chuck


  22. Rabbitt,
    I tested my pugs with the plastic wraper back on. Reality hit me straight on. Unlike last night, all the pellets pierced the plastic and embedded in the pug just as if the plastic wasn’t there. The plastic even made things worse because during pellet removal they would slip underneath it making the pellets impossible to reach.

    So here comes the reality: Last night I set my pugs up as soon as I got home from buying them. Guess what? They were cold!! Hence less pliable. Today at room temp they are a softer, gentler pug. So there you go.

    -Chuck


  23. Nice report Mel.
    I actually have one of those plastic-stocked Innovas. Mine has a steel pump tube, with a brass barrel in a plastic sleeve, and a plastic breech. Yes, it’s a full-dump valve, and you don’t actually ever cock the rifle. The first pump stroke sets the valve. At one time, I had both the “Sharp” and a Cannon 737 at the same time, and was able to compare them side-by-side. The Cannon had a brass pump tube, and the plastic breech was shaped a little differently, and of course a wood stock, but otherwise, the two were nearly identical. Wonderful guns.

    Jim in PGH


  24. CJr,

    Thank you very much for that and I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you doing that for me. I have only shot about 500 or so pellets through my Air Hawk also so I think we have about the same number of pellets through the rifles.
    I noticed also that the Gamo Match were the ones on mine that fell out when I closed the barrel and fit the loosest. Meisterkugeln fit the tightest for me but I still get a lot of loose ones so maybe my breech is a little larger and got machined wrong. I know you said the crow mags fit too tight but now I am tempted to try them out in mine to see if they are a tight fit for me. If that doesn’t work for me then I think I will just deal with some loose fitting Meister’s from time to time. Thank you again for all the info !!!


  25. Thanks Matt61,
    I like the Savage BTVS, right now it’s how much $$ do I want left over for ammo+scope+other guns+accessories. From what I hear, the savage is great off the bat. The stock 10/22s are not that accurate and are (as a stock gun) outclassed by the cheaper Rem597, which I hear is as accurate as some bolt guns (only being 160$ gives me extra cash to spend in a hugo stock and scopes).
    Shadow express dude


  26. Leon Mercado,

    I am interested ih hearing more about that CO2 powered shotgun. Can you tell us more about it, please and thank you.

    Mr B.



  27. ZeChico,

    RE: 10:49 am – software that calculates bullet/pellet trajectory

    It is hard from the outside looking in to determine exactly how any given software program works. But the Ballistic Coefficient, BC, is the inverse of the “friction” factor that makes pellets slow down. It is measured experimentally by velocity drop when shooting over a given distance. Essentially the higher the BC the less “friction” and the less the pellet slows.

    Herb





  28. SED,

    The Thompson/Center 22 Classic is supposed to be a 10/22 challenger. At one time Thompson advertised half-inch groups at 50 yards, but one gun write (I think from the NRA) tested it and got closer to .75-inch groups.

    No autoloader will be as accurate as a bolt-action done right, unless the autoloader has been worked on. They need larger chambers for more reliable feeding, for one thing.

    B.B.


  29. Thanks for the reply Herb.

    Yes, a higher BC means that the pellet as less friction and losses less speed.

    I said that they use a higher BC than the real BC for that pellet because I guess the pellet drops slower in reality (distance each second) that the software says.
    So at 40 yards a slower pellet in reality will be in the same place (vertically) as a faster pellet in the software.

    About the pellet drop?
    Do you think in reality that a pellet at 900fps drops at the same rate (cm or inches per second) as a pellet at 100fps or 0fps?
    Does the wall of air around the pellet can cause it to drop slower?

    PS: When I said that in Portugal we are limited to 5.5mm/.22 I wanted to say limited “up to 5.5mm/.22″ (we can use 4.5mm/.177 or any other).

    Thanks.



  30. Mel,
    Really cool entry. Thanks for taking the time to do all that for us.

    JT,
    Now we expect a full report:).

    Vince,
    Did you write up what you did to the 490?

    SED,
    Unless you are keen on the thumbhole stock, the other Savage bolt-action rimfire .22′s should shoot just as well or at least have the same potential. I’ve seen the sporter-barreled, wood-stocked ones starting just above $150. I also like the Mk II FV (heavy barrel, synthetic stock) and BV (heavy barrel, laminate stock). I _need_ one of them badly:).


  31. RE: 490 from Vince
    Hi all
    1st I'll say that I have little experience with springers,and none with any over $100.
    2nd if an HW or R7 is really that much better than this 490,I don't think I could stand it.
    The rekord trigger is probably sweet and the quality means longer life but at 1/4
    the price or less I'm not going to miss what I haven't had.
    When I took the rifle from the box I really liked the look feel and balance.
    Stock was a nice dark reddish brown with only a couple pressure marks fingernail size or

    smaller.metal is uniform color with no visible marks.sights are well marked and have nice
    clear clicks.external screws are all tight and nothing seems loose or rattles.
    front sight may get some color added for better low light or dark target shots.
    Now for the fun:cocking is smooth and quiet and only @ 14 lbs. on the bathroom scale.
    trigger pull is kinda long but not too heavy,about like my 953 was when new.
    However that @!#%$&! auto safety is gonna have to go!
    The gun fires with a nice solid thump and no twang.very little noticeable vibration that
    I could detect.I hate that irritating safety.
    after 10 CPHP (all I've got right now) and eight elevation clicks I was on the bull at 30

    ft.
    No windage required :).I shot alot of bottle caps from 10-20 yds.with about 2-3 misses out

    of every 10 shots.I only shot one group of 5 on paper but 3 were touching and the other 2

    were
    about a pellet width away.The group was shot sitting in patio chair with elbow on knee.
    The CPHP's were a bit snug fitting so later I'll try some different pellets.
    For now I just gotta practice that artillary hold (alot:)and try holding in different spots

    to see where we both like it.
    I don't have a chrony but from the penetration and the way those bottle caps took flight
    this is definitely hotter than my 953 and maybe a little more than the 1377 on 10 pumps.
    After only a few hours I'm very pleased with this rifle and hope I can keep it going for a

    long time.
    Thanks to all who recommended this rifle and to Vince for what I think is a nice deal.
    Did I mention I don't like the auto safety?

    JTinAL




  32. Mr. B,

    The half dozen or so Philippine CO2 air shotguns of different makers I tried out, were of the LD swinging breech loading/ hammer action and the side lever cocking/bolt action loading design types. These were of stainless steel or brass, soldered construction with hardwood stocks. These materials made good corrosion resistance sense in a humid tropical country. The shotshells were essentially 2 inch long brass or steel tubes that held any manner of shot loads between paper or felt wads. Barrel sizes ranged from about .32 caliber to about 12 gauge. The .32 caliber ones could take rifled barrel inserts that converted them into .22 caliber rifles. Or you could shoot a .32 caliber steel ball bearing through the smooth bore like a musket. Some models even had repeater tube magazine set-ups for these ball bearings. Power, range and number of shots per fill, depended on the size of the dump valve and the reservoir capacity. The 12 gauge models could reach out to 75 yards and pattern most of a load of birdshot into a 4 foot by 6 foot board at that distance. Effective range was really about 50 yards. Shotguns were gassed up from 2.5 inch diameter by 12 inch long refillable tanks. These could be filled at many sporting good stores in the country. You could get about 5 good power shots at most, from one CO2 fill on the 12 gauge models. The shot report was almost as loud as a real firearm.

    The brass 12 gauge double barreled shotgun I holed the steel oil drum with, from about 7 yards, had two swinging breeches and hammers plus one large gas reservoir. One heavy sucker! Shot went through one side and heavily dented the opposite side. Load was #9 birdshot suspended in a matrix of candle wax. Performed kinda like an extra-large frangible pistol round. Like I said, they have figured out all manner of loads there.

    The Philippine airshotguns are mostly used to hunt snipes in rice fields, or migrating Chinese ducks on the ponds and lakes. Because of the limited range, shots were usually taken while the birds were not in flight. Guard duty over farmlands and fishponds is another use, but a very limited one at that. Thieves there often come with firearms themselves, so most people know better not to challenge them with an airgun.

    I made a cursory research on these shotguns without any formal scientific approach or equiptment several years ago, because I wanted to see if I could export them. Concluded that the lack of formal engineering, consistent quality control, materials sourcing, machine tool maintenance, reliable electrical power provision and efficient mass production, in most of the Philippine cottage industry airgun manufacturing workshops would make the venture a business nightmare in terms of product delivery, pricing and product liability, unless I could put up my own factory. Most of the ones I saw are 2-car garage- size operations with only tired old handtools, drill presses and lathes to do both the metal and wood work. Some of the work is done under the mango tree in the backyard of course. TLAR (That Looks About Right ) engineering is the norm. They could only do custom order work and essentially produced one-offs. Amazingly, I never heard of any life- threatening, catastrophic failures all these years. To visualize, think in terms of the Pakistani firearms cottage industry near the Afghan border. Knowing what I know, and seeing what I’ve seen, I wouldn’t pay the exorbitant collector prices shown for some of the Philippine airguns mentioned in the Blue Book of Airguns and on the internet.

    One also has to deal with a lot of government red tape in order to get an export license for Airguns. A convoluted, costly procedure from what I heard.

    Today, only the less than a handful of the larger firearms manufacturers in that country like Armscor could manage to safely mass produce airguns for the export market. That is if they figure they can make as good a profit on airguns as they do on firearms. It is really much easier to make a firearm than an airgun.



  33. Mr. B, CJ,

    I forgot to mention that the longer the barrel, the higher the power and farther the range. Philippine air shotgun barrels would reach up to the vicinity of 48 inches in lenght usually givng a total gun lenght of more than 60 inches.

    I’d have to return to the Philippines with a chrony to do a proper blog post.

    Trying to manufacture airguns there yourself would take a modest investment plus factory and export operations skills. The biggest challenge actually would be to find the competent people to work in it. We produce a few hundred mechanical engineers in the country every year, but they prefer to work in the refridgeration and HVAC industries (Its a hot humid country!), or the pertroleum refineries (Multi-national oil companies pay relatively well), or seek employment abroad. (Not enough of those cooling and oil cooking jobs to go around.).

    One thing I have also been wondering about is the future of CO2 airguns in general with the rising awareness about greenhouse gases and global warming. Maybe PCP is the way to go.


  34. Thanks for the information about Phillipine airguns, Len!

    The greenhouse gas that is needed to power rifles, even bog-bore models, is negligible to that produced by cars. A single gallon of fuel gives about 20 pounds of CO2, you’ll be quite busy putting that amount through your rifle!



  35. Leon,

    I second the request for a guest blog about Philippine airguns. I did a report on air shotguns that included a Farco, but I didn’t mention the LDs. And I never addressed the handguns that are so loud and seemingly powerful.

    Please consider it.

    B.B.


  36. Leon,
    Do you still have friends in the Philippines who can send you photos of some cottage made guns? Or, perhaps you have some already to share.
    -Chuck


  37. B.B.

    Actually, I think there is enough going on out there to write a book on Philippine airguns.

    Might start with a guest blog if I can manage a trip next year. We’ll see.




  38. Mel,
    Thanks for that video! I wonder how long before he’ll need to re plaster? He was getting considerable back splatter off his shots.

    At first I thought, that doesn’t look like a shot gun, why is he getting a shot pattern?, then I noticed the paper was being blown out and not in.


  39. Yeah, the boy shout needs to learn a bit about backstops..and maybe needs a good explanation to his parents what happened to the wall!

    Handling this swinging breech & hammer design is really fun. I wonder, why is it not used in any Western airgun?



  40. Mel,
    It seems unreasonable to me that a gallon of fuel(which weighs about 7 pounds) would produce 20 pounds of CO2. Most of it’s mass would be converted to heat and work in an engine so where does the extra 13 pounds mass come from? Herb, Some help to understand this?


  41. Never mind herb, I looked it up, just cause it doesn’t seem right doesn’t mean it isn’t, and apparently in this case it is. Approx. 19.5 lbs. CO2 per gallon.
    Jon F.


  42. Jon F., none of the fuel’s mass is converted to heat. If it was, you’d have a nuclear reaction going on.

    You can figure that generally speaking each pound of fuel requires about 15 lbs of air, so each pound of fuel will generate on the order of 16 pounds of exhaust.

    The carbon dioxide results when carbon in the fuel combines with atmospheric oxygen, and each carbon dioxide molecule weighs about 3.67 times carbon atom. So whatever the weight of the carbon in a pound of fuel (I don’t know how much that is), multiply it by 3.67 and you’ll get the approximate weight of carbon dioxide in the exhaust.


  43. ZeChico

    RE: post @ 10:49 AM & drop…

    First the BC is determined experimentally. Someone shot over a crony say at 2 yards and another say at 27, which is a 25 yard difference. They adjusted BC until drop in velocity agrees with what they measured over the 25 yards. If you make different measurements use your values.

    RE: Drop & pellet speed

    Faster pellets don't drop less per unit time. Faster pellets get to the target faster and hence they have less time to drop. A pellet going at 800 fps and a pellet going at 400 fps will drop exactly the same amount in 0.1 seconds. But the 800 fps pellet will be 80 feet downrange in 0.1 second, while the 400 fps pellet will only be 40 feet (neglecting loss in velocityy due to air friction for the moment…). It will take the 400 fps 0.2 seconds to go 80 feet so the 400 fps will drop twice as long.

    Now here is the twist. The drop is because of gravity. But the influence of gravity is to accelerate the drop at 32 ft per second squared. So dropping for twice as long results in much more than twice the distance of dropping. Make sense?

    Selecting JSB Exact 16.0 grains, BC 0.200, 800 fps muzzle velocity gives a drop of 2.056 inches at 26 yards and a flight time of 0.106 seconds.

    Now if the muzzle velocity is dropped to 400 fps, the result is about 13.5 yards in 0.106 seconds and a drop of about 2.102 inches. (Had to interpolate so the values are not exact). Now to go 26 yards requires 0.212 seconds and a drop of 8.226. So twice the time is four times the drop!

    Download ChairGun2 and play with it. The program can give you wonderful insight as to how factors (pellet weight, BC, scope height, etc.) are interrelated.

    Herb


  44. Herb,

    Thanks again.

    Yes, I understand the physic of acceleration.

    I have a program similar to ChairGun2, but its free, its the “Simple Trajectory Program”.
    Its simple, small and works fery good, you can find it here:
    http://www.airguns.net/downloads/stp.zip

    Whith all my talk I was trying do understand why they have to use a higher BC than the real BC of that pellet.

    So there is two reasons:

    1 – The orgiginal BC was wrong (the BC for the same pellet is different for each gun).

    2 – The program ignores the air friction when the pellet drops.

    Regards.



  45. ZeChico,

    RE: Two reasons…

    Let me be very clear – The purpose of the BC is to correct for air friction. So a program which uses a BC is NOT ignoring air friction.

    The use of a BC is not however a super-computer simulation of the exact phenomenon but rather an approximation. That is why a real physical measurement must be made to determine the BC.

    There could be some variation due to the gun. I’d guess it has to do with the pellet precessing. However the largest variation will be due to the velocity. The BC varies with velocity. Particularly if you’re shooting near the speed of sound the changes in the BC would be problematic.

    Herb


  46. Good Morning B.B,and to “mom’ as well–Scott298 reporting in- Mel thank-you for the Blog I throughly enjoyed it. B.B.– Now the big question. You know that I am a fan of Diana Rifles and Mel was kind enough to bring the new models to light (at least to me). With the new models -Diana- coming out do you feel that amy of them will be on par with the Air Arms TX? I know you probably haven’t even had the opportunity to hold one let alone shoot one-but with yout contacts have you heard any rumblings that the new Diana’s might give the Air Arms a run for it’s money in the quality and accuracy dept with out being grossly overpriced? And by the way my birthday is coming up and if you don”t know what to get a TX would be ok! Rhanks “dad” be waiting to hear from ya-your ever loving “son” Scott298


  47. Scott298,

    Mom says, “Hi.”

    Of all the RWS Diana rifles, only one stands out as being the equal of the TX200. That is the model 54.

    For accuracy, it is the equal, if not superior to the TX200.

    For smoothness it is often the equal of the TX200.

    It isn’t as well-finished, though the checkering is over the top.

    The TX200 trigger is superior. Now that the new Leapers scope base it out there is no advantage to the TX scope mounting system.

    The new Dianas don’t improve the quality of the line at all, but that 54 is a stand-apart rifle. It’s the best one they make today.

    When it was still made the model 46 was a contender, but it never challenged the 54.

    B.B.


  48. Herb,

    Yes the program uses the BC of the pellet, so it uses air friction when the pellet flies, but not when the pellet drops.

    That is what I’m trying to say.
    The software might ignore the air resistence when the pellet drops (when the pellet is effected by gravity)

    Regards.


  49. Armscor’s new PCP (it’s been out since at least Aug 2008 here in the Philippines) is very similar to Filarms’ PCPs. Actually, not long after one of the master gunsmiths from Filarms started to work at Armscor when this new PCP rifle emerged. It’s beig sold with a Hill pump. The price of the Armscor .22 PCP in the Philippines is around 20,000 pesos or 430 USD.

    Armscor is a legitimate gun maker, and their 45 cal pistols and other weapons are being sold under other well known brand names in the U.S. and Europe.


  50. My Drulov 10 from Pyramyd did not come with a manual. The one I downloaded had no labelled pictures or schematics. My pistol has started to go full auto or to empty the cartridge on one trigger pull. From what I have read, this is usually due to the trigger pull being set too light. The printed instrutions say to adjust the trigger pull by adjusting the screw in front of the trigger guard. There are two screws on the trigger guard which are not adjustable and none in front of the trigger guard. How does one adjust the trigger pull on this very nice gun? I’d prefer not to send it in so someone can turn a screw a quarter turn or some such.
    WQOly



  51. I've heard it said that the Armscor PCP is essentially a FilArms PCP copy. I cannot say as I have not seen the former. But it was my impression that only 10 Armscor PCP has been released in the Philippine market.

    Like the earlier Armscor TELL breakbarrel which was discountinued, many fear that the Armscor PCP may be available in foreign countries only.

    [img]http://brojames.weblodge.net/images/ss-fm-r-w3.gif[/img]
    This is my CO2 version of the hammer-type with swing gate similar to the Armscor/Filarms PCP. It is made from stainless steel.


  52. I would really like to know more about the Cometa Fusion. I recently began my search for a new air rifle and had all but decided on an RWS, but then I happend onto the PAG site and saw the Cometa. I've searched and read all I can find on these rifles, but would love to know how they compare to the RWS. Any insight you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

    Tommy


  53. Tommy, BB's right. It's best to go to the recent page.

    The Cometa Fusion is based on the older Cometa 400, which used to be sold as the RWS94. I have a fair bit of experience with that gun.

    Compared to the Model 34 series (made by Diana), the Cometa 400 is lighter, better balanced, easier to cock, and in general easier to handle. I think the Cometa trigger is better, too. Accuracy and power are comparable. In general I enjoy shooting the Cometa more than the Diana rifle, and the Cometa doesn't seem to have quite the same issue with barrel droop.

    But frankly – when it comes to the quality of the parts and machining, I think the Diana is made somewhat better. I suspect that it'll ultimately last longer with a lot of use, and there's a better chance of still getting service parts 20 or 30 years from now. Not trying to suggest that the Cometa is made like dog poop, for most people it'll probably last for years.


  54. Thanks for the info on the Cometa. I'll take your advice on posting to the current blog in the future. The reason I posted here was from a blog search for Cometa. Thought I was getting to a more applicable post for my question. Thanks again…

    Tommy




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