Evanix Blizzard S10 – Part 3

by B.B. Pelletier

Quick announcement: Pyramyd Air has told me that Norica is aware of the need for a more robust muzzlebrake on their Goliath carbine, and all Goliaths shipped to Pyramyd Air will have stronger ones than the one on the pre-production model shipped to me for testing.

Now, on to today’s blog.

Part 1
Part 2

Today, we’ll look at the accuracy of the Evanix Blizzard S10–a report some people have been awaiting for a long time. And I have some interesting news to share.

Recap
The Blizzard is a quiet gun. I was reminded of that when I shot it. It’s louder than a Marauder, but it also has a lot more power. It also has a very nice trigger. And the stock, which is made in the best European fashion, leaves nothing to be desired. But what about the accuracy? Well, let’s see.

As you examine the 10-shot groups that follow, know that I was adjusting the sights as I went. And some groups were shot without adjustment, which explains why they are so far from the bull. All shooting was done from a rest at 50 yards. I waited out the wind and shot between gusts. I shot 20 shots (two groups) before refilling, because that seems to be best for this rifle. There are more good shots available from a charge, but not another 10, which is what the circular clip holds.

JSB Exacts
I started out with the 18-grain JSB Exact, because the Air Arms domes I was also going to use are the same as 15.8-grain JSB Exacts. The groups were surprising, as they were reasonably good for 50 yards with several awful wild shots. I was shocked to see what I had thought would be the best pellet of all come out so bad. More puzzling was the tight group within the 10-shot group that suggested something else was wrong.


18-grain JSBs look promising at 50 yards, then they throw a curve ball to the right. There was no wind when that shot was taken. What’s going on?

Eun Jin
The single 50-yard 10-shot group I fired with Eun Jin domes was horrible. It measured 2.68 inches. So, I quit shooting that pellet. Then, the very next group, shot with Air Arms 16-grain domes, turned out to be the second-best group of the day.


Eun Jin pellets were not going to shoot on this day!

Air Arms Domes
Ten Air Arms domes, which are the 15.8-grain JSB Exact, went into a 1.087″ group at 50 yards. That was followed by another group with the same pellets that measured 2.09″. Yes, there was wind on the day I shot, but I was pausing for windless spells. My groups should have been within a couple tenths of one another when shooting with the same pellet.


Immediately following the Eun Jin group, I shot this group of 10 Air Arms domes that measures 1.087″. Clearly this rifle wants to shoot.

Then I shot a 1.056″ 10-shot group of Air Arms pellets, the best group of the day, followed two groups later by one measuring 2.88″. Now, I was pretty certain that I knew what was wrong. Do you know what it is?


Nice group of 10 Air Arms pellets measures 1.056″ at 50 yards.


Two groups later I got this 2.88″ group with the same Air Arms pellets. This isn’t right!

Whenever a baffled rifle shoots inconsistently like this, there’s usually just one cause. Some of the pellets are touching one of the baffles on the way out, destabilizing them. Some Daystate rifles used to have this problem, because they had very small holes in their silencers. The solution was to enlarge the hole through the baffles. The funny thing is that doing that doesn’t increase the sound! I don’t know why manufacturers make these holes so small.

And the pellets were completing the story with the Blizzard, because the biggest Eun Jin pellets wouldn’t shoot at all, while the smallest Air Arms pellets wanted to group, but were sometimes inconsistent. So the larger the pellets are, the less likely they will shoot well in this rifle.

Because the barrel shroud simply unscrews, it will be easy to test my theory. I’m going to re-run this test without the barrel shroud installed, and we’ll see if there’s a difference in accuracy and consistency. My instinct tells me that this is a very accurate rifle, if it’s given half a chance.

In fact, Edith just brought to my attention that a recent customer review for the Blizzard states the same thing…a customer experienced the same problem of pellets getting clipped. He drilled out the hole of of one of the tubes in the baffles, and that solved the issue. He also mentioned that there was no change in sound from the larger hole.

And now for something capricious and wonderful!

We shall play a guessing game. I will show you three photos and you will tell me what they mean. There is no prize for guessing right except the satisfaction of being first to uncover a mystery.


Five shots at 20 yards, But from what?


The shooter. What in the world?


The ammo. Does it start to make sense?

So, what am I showing you and why? That’s our game. When someone guesses close, I will reveal the whole plan.

68 Responses to “Evanix Blizzard S10 – Part 3”

  • Anonymous Says:

    bb with regards to your mystery: i think you want to compare the .22 CB short accuracy to the Evanix Blizzard .22 because they will have rougly the same power, the cb's short will have 32.47 fpe and the evanix close to that.

    regards
    airking
    airrifle.co.za

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Airking,

    You are close. And I think your idea may even be better than mine!

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Is this a reference to Wayne's comment from the first post, I quote:

    "The Blizzard on the other hand is a hunting machine only.. twenty very powerful shots like a .22lr, with a noise level about like a .22 cb short in a long barrel rimfire rifle.. Wayne, Ashland Air Rifle Range"

    G.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    G.,

    No, but you are close.

    B.B.

  • Bub Says:

    Guys:

    I think it's about price. High priced CB Shorts with little or no advantage over pellets. Actually pellets have many advantages.

    Bub

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    BB,
    I hope its the shroud — that would be a pretty easy fix. Possibly even the manufacturers could check things out; this is not the only rifle with that problem that I've read about.

    On the mystery, I think its a .22 falling or rolling block, but I'm not that familiar with them. ID would be easier if you showed the other side — but of course you know that:). AirKing and Anonymous G. have good guesses as to purpose– don't think I have any better, unless you are going to replicate the Quigley bucket shot at 250 yards with CB's for a Guinness attempt, though you'd need a tang sight for that:).

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    Bub,
    Your guess is even better — didn't see it while I was typing.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Winchester Low wall (musket config I believe). Looks like one of the training models. Have to agree with some of the others on the points. Just wanted to add that the rifle is WAAAAYYY COOL! One of my all time favs.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Bub,

    Your guess is very close. The closest so far.

    B.B.

  • JTinAL Says:

    BB
    My guess is similar to the others,I think
    you're gonna use a highly accurate .22rf
    to show the advantages(cost after initial
    purchase,accuracy,power,and less chance
    of unintended damage beyond the target)
    of pcp's.
    Or maybe not:^)

    JTinAL

    P.S Volvo,I think the image lower right
    1st pic could easily explain the difference in group sizes:)

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    BG_Farmer,

    The rifle is an 1886 Winchester low wall. Specifically it's called a Winder Musket. I will tell you all about it when I reveal my plan.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    JTinAL,

    Very close!

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Low Wall,

    Yes, you guessed it before I confirmed it. This is indeed a low wall Winder Musket used in NRA marksmanship training just after the turn of the 20th century, I believe. Mine was probably made very late in the production cycle. Maybe in the teens. And, like you, I think it is a way cool rifle!

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    The gun pictured is indeed a Winchester Low Wall. I have one just like it chambered in .22 RF except mine wears a vintage Flecker target scope. The CB 's are very quite in it but are not as accurate as the LR because the chamber of a the gun, not the rifling, is the key to accuracy with shorts. They offer no advantage in accuracy over regular LR's and they cost more. Robert

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Robert,

    Well, that was one of my surprises. My Winder is chambered for .22 shorts! So both the chamber and, presumably the twist rate, are right for the 29-grain bullet.

    And you are very close to guessing my secret!

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Yes and the comment above on the danger range of .22 ammo is spot on . Especally of misconceptions about ammo like .22 shorts is common ( as in short =less power =less danger). Also , all guns will show an ammo preference. It doesn't have to be target fodder' and receiver sights can be used just as accuratly as scopes. The main reason I went to air arms for squirrel hunting was the frustration of not being able to take those shots where the squirrel was not plastered againist a backstop, like a two foot thick tree trunk. The short terminal range of air guns is an advantage. Robert

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Robert,

    You know, last week I was having a real struggle trying to explain that very point on this blog. I was talking about the safety range of airguns, and people were telling me that if they aren't safe at backyard distances, it doesn't matter. Your squirrel-hunting story illustrates what I was trying to say.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB; If you have a copy of the 1993 Gun Digest , there is an article by Ed Harris that you may find interesting. It is about accuracy with the .22 short. He used a gun specifically chambered for the shorts, and tested them againist the same gun chambered and rifled for 22 LR. It was a Ruger bolt action 77/22. The 1992 edition also has another article by Mr. Harris about getting the best from your .22 RF , which is also very good. Take care Robert

  • pcp4me Says:

    BB,

    My guess is you want to compare cost, accuracy, power and quietness of the turn of century Winder Musket to the Evanix.

    For starters, the Winder Musket in good to excellent condition must cost more than the Blizzard.

    The .22 cb shorts cost way more than pellets.

    The noise output of the cb shorts is probably close to that of the Evanix. I would give the latter the edge.

    Power wise both are close to the same. So either could be used for hunting. But the Blizzard should have the range edge as I bet it is more accurate.

    Since the Winder Musket was used for marksmanship training, I would bet the Blizzard would also excel in that area.

    So comparing what was in the elite of what was available then to the Blizzard, it comes out well in all areas!

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB; (I am a poor typer, hunt and peck,and I think WAY faster than I can type!) On the danger of .22 ammo , A little story: When I was small, my parents purchased an old dairy farm here in NY which had a large barn infested by pidgeons. They would set on the roof in front of these huge steel ventalters. The ventalators were made of heavy gauge steel and were about four to five foot square and about six foot high. The pidgeons used these to enter the loft of this huge barn. Anyway. we had this tenant that shot at them with a old .22 Hamilton rifle, using HS shorts.( BTW, The Hamilton was a cheap brass lined barrel .22, made of soft steel, that was not suitable for modern .22 ammo, but that's a whole other issue. You can't cure stupid.) My father told him to stop doing so, as he was going to kill someone. He argued that he was only using shorts and that the printing on the box that then said dangerous for one mile was just bunk, and anyone could see that they were less powerful as they were smaller. My parents evicted him eventually for this (reckless shooting), and other reasons. Years latter I repaired the barn roof and there were numerous holes right through the venalators, where the bullets struck after perforating pidgeons or from misses and kept going. There was a another beef farm about a 1/2 mile down the road with many beef cattle out at all times . Plus there was a small hamlet beyond the direction the shooter. It was a wonder he didn't hurt something with his recklessness. My father was a forensic chemist who worked for a large police dept., and saw a few of the results of this kind of stupidity. Watch where your misses go! Hope this makes a few folks think when they choose a type of gun for use for hunting in settled areas. I don't mean just suburbia, but rural areas also. All guns have their place and proper range of use. Robert

  • Anonymous Says:

    Regarding the Blizzard S10, why would anybody spend $660 hard earned money on an airgun that should have no (QC) issues in the first place?

  • kevin Says:

    B.B.,

    My guess is that since you've been unable to get to the range as much as you normally do, you wanted a reason to shoot that fine low wall Winder Musket. ;-)

    In your velocity tests for the Evanix Blizzard S10e you used Kodiaks. Since I've never had much luck with Eun Jins I'm curious as to why they were used as the heavy pellet in accuracy tests rather than the Kodiaks. Seems like Kodiaks in your velocity tests were ideal for the Evanix Blizzard.

    kevin

  • Anonymous Says:

    A question…but first the scenario.
    Over the weekend I took the Nightstalker out for our last cookout shoot of the year.
    10 days ago was a record setting day temperature wise…90F.
    Over the last 10 days fall has hit like a ton of bricks, with the high Saturday being only 34F, and the snow won't be far behind (forecast for mid-week).
    I know from past experience how poorly the CO2 pistols perform in the cold…you can track the pellets flight in midair. I thought the larger cylinder in the Nightstalker would be impervious to this but I was wrong. Though not as bad as the pistol, the sound was weaker and there was a noticeable time lapse from shot to target. I confirmed it was the temperature because if I let the gun warm up in the car I'd get a mag or two at normal velocities…then a quick drop off.
    So here's my query. Would a springer not be more powerful in the cold?
    My thoughts are that the volume of air sucked in would be the same no matter what the temp…but the cold air would be denser.
    Would this translate to more power?
    What I'm asking is…in the northern climes where I live, what is the best air system for temperatures hovering, or just below freezing.
    Thanks,
    CowBoyStar Dad

  • wayne Says:

    B.B.
    Oh what fun…

    Well since I'm on the west coast and up later.. I get to see all the answers so far.

    I like the comparison in cost, and accuracy to the .22 short rimfire.. making the safety points for the Air rifle.

    I guess I was just lucky. I had no accuracy issues with mine right from the box…. in a rest, 10 shots 3/4" at 50 yards is quite possible… I didn't get flyers like that at all. The Blizzard is by far better in accuracy, trigger, finish, and build quality than the earlier AR6 version. This one is a winner for sure..IMHO!

    I agree with Kevin, try the kodiak too! and the 18gr JSB..

    Wacky Wayne MD
    Ashland Air Rifle Range

  • Lloyd Says:

    B.B.,
    I also noticed that the 20yd accuracy of the Winder was about the same as the best 50 yd accuracy of the Blizzard.

    Regarding safety of 22 shorts and CBs, and comparing that to .22 cal pellets, I was wondering about shots taken at a steep angle up into the trees.
    If the pellet and bullet weight and velocity are all same, I know the bullet will go a lot farther because of its better aerodynamics. But when they eventually hit the ground will the bullet be more dangerous than the pellet?

    Thanks,
    Lloyd

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    BB,
    You had already sold me on the pellet rifle for squirrel hunting and Robert has exactly the scenario — squirrel out on a limb against blue sky. Easy shot with a .22LR, as long as you know what's downrange for the next mile or so! Even I don't have that luxury in all directions. But a pellet rifle will do the same thing, but safely in many cases.

    That is a pretty rifle. Add to my list:). I'm pretty much done with smokeless acquisitions, but its tempting.

  • JTinAL Says:

    Lloyd
    Short answer is yes!
    I'm sure BB and others will give a better
    and more detailed explanation, but the
    more solid (even though CB's have a cupped
    bottom)conical bullet will deform less,
    and retain better penetration longer than
    a diabolo pellet.The bullet will also be
    more prone to ricochet because of density and shape.

    JTinAL

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Robert,

    I will look for the 93 Gun Digest in my library. But it looks like I'm going to repeat some of it anyhow.

    Thanks for the lead.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Kevin,

    Like so many others, I discovered that the Blizzard HATES feeding them. I used the Eun Jin because several readers shamed me into it, after I said they don't feed in the gun. Of course they do. I just didn't try hard enough.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Off Topic question

    Does blogger show all comments posted to everybody. Sometimes I see "answers/responses" to questions, but I can't seem to find the original question asked.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Off Topic,

    The theory is that Blogger shows all comments. I'm not sure that it does.

    But sometimes the question was asked on one day and the response is written a week later. For some reason the responder thinks it's better to post the answer on the current blog than to go back to where the question was asked–if he can find it, that is.

    And sometimes we delete things, like every comment from Wos. There can be answers to his comments that will end up as orphans.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Lloyd,

    How fast the bullets come down depends on the angle at which they went up. Shallow angles are dangerous. A straight-up shot falls the slowest.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    CSD,

    No spring gun generates MORE power in the cold. At least nothing you can prove.

    A coiled steel spring loses considerable power if it is well-lubed, because the lube stiffens in the cold. Gas springs are impervious to cold, for the most part.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    B.B.

    Well, I always wondered about the meaning of Long Rifle for .22LR since it is such a weak cartridge. So there is a smaller .22 rimfire which must be pretty close to airgun performance. I haven't the faintest idea what your plan is except for some kind of comparison between the .22 short and an airgun pellet as has already been suggested.

    Perhaps the point of confusion about airgun safety is not about what's in your backyard but what's next to it. If your backyard opens out onto big spaces, you're fine with airguns or guns that are more powerful. If your backyard is next to another backyard, you had better be careful even with the lowest power airgun.

    TunnelEngineer, let me know if you find a good deal on the k98. My sense is that the Mausers are drying up. But, the Mosin Nagants–production run something like 17 million–are plentiful and cheap. The story of this weekend for me is my new-found interest in this rifle. On my last visit to the range, someone showed me a vintage 1942 version of this rifle bought at a local store for $99. What a piece of history. My authoritative bolt-action rifle book says that it is a crude and inferior design compared to the k98. However it has some impressive chops. The longest-serving military rifle of all-time; the tool of the highest-scoring sniper in history whose record is 5 times as large as his American counterparts and compiled within about 3 months before he was disabled. The rifle's quirky design is reminiscent of the IZH airguns which certainly work well. The offbeat design also reminds me of some after-action reports of the Eastern Front where the Germans said that their Russian foes would use tactics that on the surface seemed to make no sense, but often turned out to be the exact right thing to do. Does anyone have a Mosin Nagant and have any impressions of it to share?

    Matt61

  • Anonymous Says:

    If you do find that the baffles cause clipping, what do you speculate would be the best resort for a future purchaser or customer without voiding any warranties?

    - Shoot X number of pellets through the gun, hoping the pellets will gouge a clear path over time?
    - Send baffles to PA to bore out?
    - Hope PA will bore them out before additional guns are shipped out?
    - Hold breath and hope manufacturer will correct issue for newer guns?
    - Buy a second set of baffles to bore out yourself, but save old baffles to re-insert for warranty issues?

    I'm curious, because this gun is on my short list.

    Thanks.

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB & CowboyStar Dad,

    I have been studying to shoot 10 meter rifle (offhand) with the Daisy 853c.

    Have a couple of questions:
    1) After sighting the rifle (benched) do I need to refine the sights when shooting offhand?
    2) Will I need to resight the rifle for the different positions: prone, kneeling & standing?

    Thanks,
    Stingray

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Matt,

    Here is some history for you. The .22 short is the oldest self-contained cartridge still in existence. It came into being back in the 1850s, when Rollin White's patent of the bored-though revolver cylinder was chambered for it. That was the first Smith & Wesson firearm.

    The .22 long and long rifle came much later.

    B.B.

  • WhoGnu Says:

    BB.
    Love the blog. I'm guessing you're going to compare the loudness of the two rifles since the Blizzard will be un-shrouded, as well as the other properties that have already been mentioned.
    I would also like to ask if you about the BAM-40. Is it ambidextrious? It does not appear to be. Is there a lefty available somewhere? It would seem that if I had to get a custom stock I might as well just get a TX 200. But the whole point is to spend less.
    Keep up the great work!

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Bored,

    Well, not all Blizzards will have the problem, so check yours by shooting it first. But remember to look for what you see here.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Stingray,

    Always shoot confirming zeros in each position. And after zeroing off a bench the POI can change in the hands.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    WhoGnu,

    The BAM B40 is not ambidextrous.

    You are getting cold with your guess.

    B.B.

  • DB Says:

    BB,
    All my guns group like what you got with the S10 and none of them have baffles. Suppose it could be the shooter.

    My guess is that you want to demonstrate that 22 short is dangerous and so is a high powered AG. So treat all with respect and seriuous safety.

    This is the very reason my Disco shoots slower than one from the box. It has plenty for my needs and not so much to be as dangerous.

    Keep up the good work,
    DB

  • Anonymous Says:

    Stingray, I only shoot standing…I'm a frustrated Olympic shooter on a budget ;-) so I can't answer that part of your question.
    But, confirming b.b.'s post you will need to resight once your off the rest.
    As well the gun will change POI a bit day to day…I'm not sure if this is humidity related, air pressure or maybe just the gods/goddess's at work, but before a 'serious shooting session you will need to fine tune the sights.
    From day to day the sights on my Slavia or Nightstalker hold well enough to hit a tin can at 25 yards.
    But that (.) they call the 10 ring on an ISSF target will not tolerate any sight deviation whatsoever.
    It is common (and I do it) to take 15 or 20 sighters before I start to actually count shots.
    CowBoyStar Dad

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    TwoTalon,
    I went out with the rifle this morning, with a "vegan" twist: saturated the patches with vegetable oil. Works really well. I did it because I refuse to pay for pre-lubed patches (can't buy them locally) and getting the Wonderlube on the patches evenly is a pain. Some people here told me they microwave the patches briefly so that the lube soaks in, but I got to thinking why not just start with a liquid (but I run out of spit just swabbing b/t shots:)). So, I cut my round patches from pillow ticking using a properly sized bottle top as a guide then saturated them in vegetable oil and squeezed out the excess. Works like a charm — very consistent shooting at both 25 and 50 yards. Either its extremely stupid, or 50 others already know about it, but I thought the idea was pretty cool:).

  • Anonymous Says:

    B.B.

    That's mighty curious about the .22 short. I can't believe that such an important innovation would be driven by recreational target shooting, but what would be the practical use of such a weak cartridge, especially in those times?

    Matt61

  • Anonymous Says:

    CowBoyStar Dad,

    If you only shoot 10m standing with the same rifle, do you always have to rezero? Surely, the mechanical zero would not change, so you are correcting for shooting technique, but I thought the idea was to develop a consistent technique. The rezeroing sounds like you would be enabling variations.

    Matt61

  • twotalon Says:

    BG_Farmer
    Have done that too.
    Have also melted crisco, dipped the patch, then blotted it between paper towels to remove excess.
    Then there is Hoppes #9 plus which is good when patch material is dunked, squeezed to remove excess, then laid out to dry until just moist. It does dry out so using it at just the right moisture content may be a bit difficult on a hot dry day.
    Then there is the water soulable oil mixed with the right amount of water so that dipped and squeezed patch material will dry out leaving just the right amount of oil.

    Patch is best cut into strips. Lay across the muzzle same side up and stripes pointing in the same direction every time. Start the ball and cut off the excess.
    The weave lays the same way every time. and the ball is always centered.

    twotalon

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Matt,

    The first computer hard drive I ever saw was the size of a desktop tower computer, only it lay flat on the desk. It could hold 10 megabytes of information!

    Technology advances.

    Back around the turn of the 20th century, men shot the .22 short in serious matches to 200 yards. They didn't think of it as weak, because of what they were able to do with it.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Matt 61: I have played with four or five Mosin Nagants now and still have a Chinese Mosin carbine and a Finnish model 27. The Finnish gun is very well made and a wonderful shooter. The Chinese gun however, is very rough. Looks like it was hid in the previous owners compost pile and then run over by a tank. The bore is oversized and bullets will sometimes keyhole. The Russian 7.62 is a good cartridge and equal to our .30-06 in accuracy and power. It is a cartridge to be feared up to 500 yards , especially if you are on the receiving end. The drawbacks are the difficulty in mounting scopes and even receiver sights on the gun, due to the split receiver bridge, and the short straight bolt handle. It is also a very long rifle, although there are the carbines, and the shorter Finnish guns are not too bad. The action while very strong, is not the equal of our 1917 Enfield, Springfield, or the K98 Mauser. The bores on these guns will also vary from .308 to as much as .314. Most are in the .311 size. Be sure to slug any gun's bore you load for. The best of the Mosin's were the Finnish models 27 and 39 , and the Remington and Westinghouse examples. The Tula arsenal ones can be good also, depending on the time when made. You will often find sporterized versions for sale that while not collector items due to remodeling, are good shooters, suitable for rough service. As an aside, many of our troops were issued, drilled with, and used for training , Mosin Nagant rifles during the first world war. Our goverment got stuck with a lot of them when the Russian Revolution ensued. Hope this helps , Robert

  • tunnel engineer Says:

    Hello all,

    I do not have the faintest idea of what BB is trying to do. I do have a question thought, what does the RF in .22RF mean?

    Also, I am sorry I still do not know all the proper names for gun parts. The piece (crown?) of the Disco barrell, the conical/cylindrical piece which pellets see last in their flight out of the barrell. I think it is called the Hookie Dookie. Anyway, can it be removed? I mean, removed by me? I have not still figured out the reason for the innacuracy of my Disco but I have eliminated other possibilities such as the barrel. I was wondering if I could remove it (rather than drilling through it) and fire the rifle for comparison.

    Update on S&W 586 ! I did quite a bit of shooting with this revolver. As you may recall I did post the power curve, etc. It is amazing how my accuracy with a (rental) 92FS improved by practicing with the airgun!! I have also learnt that I shoot much better one handed than with two hands in slow fire. I just can see the sights and target better.

    Cheers!

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Tunnel Engineer,

    RF is short for rimfire. The .22 cartridge has its priming in the rim of the cartridge, instead of in a separate primer located in the center of the base of the cartridge (hence, centerfire).

    B.B.

  • JTinAL Says:

    TE
    RF=rim fire-The primer compound is spun
    into the rim of the case.As opposed to center fire where the primer is seated
    in the center of the case.

  • JTinAL Says:

    oops must've been typing instead of reading:)

  • tunnel engineer Says:

    Thank you,

    I do know rimfires and centerfires but I was wondering if RF meant something different than than LR. I guess it doesn't!

    so, can I remove the Hookie-lee-Dookey from the Disco?

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Tunnel Engineer,

    You are talking about removing the front sight base from your rifle? And how will you do that?

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    B.B.

    The .22 short bears investigation. I heard that the outside range of accuracy for the .22LR was 150 yards, and I believe the furthest Olympic distance is 100 yards (or maybe 50). Expectations obviously play a role.

    Robert, thanks for your info on the MN which correlates with what I've read. The Finnish versions are the best. I would have supposed the Chinese were the worst based on my experience with airguns. No, to the carbine M44 version. I understand the recoil is murder. I had toyed with the idea of rebarreling a 91/30 to 30-06 to consolidate with my M1 ammo and try out some of the interesting commercial loads. However, my source says that such rebarreling has caused the gun to blow up and, in one case, kill the shooter. So much for that idea.

    There are some very interesting historical videos on YouTube about this rifle and the Russian sniper tradition. I'm thinking in terms of function it is probably best left to enjoy in the mind. In terms of an historical artifact it is more tempting to purchase. That would be something to have a piece of the never-to-be-forgotten Eastern Front. But now is probably not the time for me.

    Matt61

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    Matt,
    .22 shorts were popular even for hunting, esp. squirrels and rabbits, but also coons and other animals (poachers would kill deer with them, but that was a special case). My grandfather never did like LR's, because he thought they were too loud and overpowered for rimfire tasks. Now, of course, you've got a school of thought that requires 300fpe for a squirrel and won't tolerate a drop over 200 yards. I suspect the guys who were able to shoot .22 shorts over 200yards well could have taken some of our c/f marksmen to school, even if their 200 yard groups were huge by our standards:).

  • Anonymous Says:

    Matt…if I only knew why POI changes I'd be a happy man ;-)
    I use one of the standard ISSF 10m air rifle targets, which has 5 bulls per sheet.
    One shot per bull.
    As I mentioned (for those not familiar) the 10 is the size of a period (.)
    I practice every night. There are days where I can pick up the rifle and hit 4 10's and a 9 on the first 5 shots.
    But there are lots of days where, after shooting a 190 (out of 200, based on 20 shots) the night before I'll put all the shots in the 8 or 9 ring and all consistently low…or high…or to the right…or all over the damn place.
    Actually they usually are consistent.
    So I re-zero.
    And you know, I've never really known whether it is because something in the conditions (humidity, air pressure, a slight bump while putting the gun away) changes…or that you pick up the gun and just hold it a little differently…or whatever.
    I tend to think it the former. I do all the prerequisites…there is a piece of tape on the cheekpiece so I know exactly where to place my cheek.
    I strive to be conscious of how much pressure I apply to the stock with my cheek (cheek weld).
    My support hand is placed exactly the same.
    Lighting…breathing…everything.
    All the same (as far as I can tell).
    Yet I often have to put in a click of adjustment to get it shooting consistent 10's.
    As I mentioned…I think this is probably true of any gun. But the old 'close enough for jazz' doesn't hold in 10m shooting.
    If I go out with the Nighstalker (for example as in this past weekend) I take the first couple of shots and realize that I have to hold the red-dot just a hair to the right to get bullseyes. But with the 853c I don't want that…I want to be able to put the bull in the exact centre of the circle of the front sight, and put that in the exact centre of the rear diopter.
    And hit erase that (.)
    CowBoyStar Dad

  • A.R. Tinkerer Says:

    Wayne,

    IIRC you were looking for a single shot tray for the Marauder. Crosman is supposed to have them available in a week or two.

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/message/1254774032/On+the+way

    A.R.

  • wayne Says:

    A. R Tinkerer,

    Yes, and I found some from Grant on the yellow forum… I'll check the ones from crosman too.
    Thanks for thinking of me!

    Wacky Wayne

  • Anonymous Says:

    Tunnel Engineer,

    The part you are referring to is called a "front site mount" according to Crosman's Disco parts diagram. It comes off fairly easy. I removed mine because I added an a second barrel band to mine. First remove the flat head screw from the front site. I think they use thread locker so you will need a very thin but very rigid (no flex, no bending)screwdriver. My jeweler's screwdriver bent like a… like a really bendy thing and tried to bugger up the screw. I broke a razor blade into a sliver a few mm wide and used the thick end as my screwdriver. This will remove the front site. Under it you will find a hex head set screw to remove the site mount. It will be SAE not metric, and very small. I could tell you exactly what size but the markings have rubbed off of my set of hex wrenches. If you remove and replace the barrel band, as I did, remember to tighten the set screws on them a little at a time, moving from one to the other. Otherwise the uneven set screws will flex the barrel out of alignment. Hope this helps and that you get your Disco shooting to your satisfaction.

    Slinging Lead in Powder Springs

  • Anonymous Says:

    BG_Farmer,

    I never thought of a .22LR as overpowered compared to anything. :-) Well, now I'm primed for B.B.'s idea whatever it may be.

    CowBoyStar Dad, you can't argue with experience. I notice that when I throw a shot left to start a 10 shot group sometimes I can still shoot a decent group, but it will often be left and around the first shoot. I suppose there are all sorts of micro-patterns that can develop. David Tubb has 1/5 minute click sights that he uses. You must go through a lot of targets. I put 120 rounds on every sheet, and I still go through them quickly.

    Matt61

  • wayne Says:

    B.B.

    Ok maybe it has something to do with a round nose and going 710fps … ie.. "sub sonic" the key words..
    matching the power, in one case gunpowder, in the other air blast, to get the round nose projectile going 700 to 800 feet per second????

    Wacky Wayne, MD.
    Ashland Air Rifle Range

  • Volvo Says:

    I like the CB longs in my SA revolver as I can shoot them into my Beeman Silent trap with no ill effect, and no one has yet to bring a pellet pistol to market that I care for. As far as shooting them out of a rifle, I will stick to pellets. I can beat that 32 ft lb in my FX Cyclone with much less noise. Not to mention that pellets are safer and just as accurate, if not more so.

    Cost wise at the .0995 you’re paying for the CB shorts a tin of 500 would cost $49.75. Ouch.
    Since I can’t bring anything new to the table as far as guesses, I will just add “Remember the Alamo”

    Volvo

  • PurcHawk Says:

    When I was a lad of 12 with my first gun, a single-shot .22 bolt action, I shot .22 shorts almost exclusively. Longs and long rifle shells were way too expensive, and shorts did the job on rabbits, squirrels, and rats at the town dump.

    It's hard to believe some folks have never heard of shorts. More innocent days, I guess.

    Now Colt sells an AR-15 in .22 caliber (reviewed, by the way, in the current edition of Shotgun News by our own Tom Gaylord).

    PurcHawk

  • Anonymous Says:

    I owe you an apology. I did a search on Blizzard and this part 3 did NOT show up. So, I asked if you will ever finish your testing of the rifle. Then, I found this article after a bit more looking.
    Sorry 'bout that.

  • Scott Says:

    B.B,

    Did you ever get a chance to adjust the velocity. It was found that there is a adjuster, but the stock needs to be off to find it.

    Scott

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Scott,

    No, I never did.

    B.B.

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