by B.B. Pelletier
In the case of one mom and two kids, it might be best if only one child shot at a time. Let the other child watch, but don’t let him touch his gun. That way, mom can concentrate on just one person. Younger kids are full of false moves, and you’ve got to know when it’s time to call an end to a session because of horsing around. It’s best to have this talk before shooting begins. Explain to the kids that safety is so important that if they violate a rule in any serious way they’ll end that day’s session. I said in part 1 that you want to use a long gun for training. Handguns are too short and their muzzles move too quickly to be good training tools for shooter education.
Since you’ll be using long guns, let them be on rests so the child doesn’t have to support the weight of the gun. These rests don’t have to be fancy. They can be rolled up towels or blankets…whatever you have that allows the rifle to rest without falling over.
There are two schools of thought on what comes next. Do you first teach the child how to use the sights in a separate lesson, or do you teach them how to sight while they’re shooting? Certainly, you point out all the parts of the sights to all your shooters so they understand the difference between the front and rear sights. When you talk about the rear sight notch, they’ll know what it looks like. I like training on the gun itself because I think the training sticks a little better.
If the sights are adjustable, then mom has to watch where the majority of the shots are falling. It may be necessary to make adjustments to the sights to bring the shots closer to center of the target.
Which gun to use?
Unless you plan on sending your kids to the Daisy International BB Gun Championship, I recommend starting with a pellet gun, not a BB gun. The 499 Champion is the only BB gun accurate enough for training. On the other hand, you have quite a choice of pellet rifles.
Daisy’s Powerline 953 TargetPro is a great youth training rifle.
No doubt this will stimulate many comments among our readers. Certainly, the Daisy 953 is one of the best training guns. But it’s a little large for a 7-year-old. Don’t overlook some of the sporting youth guns being sold by some other companies, like the Gamo Lady Recon, Ruger Explorer, Hammerli 490 Express and Crosman Raven. While these are not target rifles, they have everything necessary to train young shooters. And, their sizes are ideal.
If you want to spend a little more money and get something that’s quite a bit nicer, you might also consider the Bronco. It would be a little heavy for a 7-year-old, but they’re resting the rifles. The stock probably won’t be too long, and the sights and trigger are ideal for training.
Caliber
There’s no caliber decision to consider. Buy .177 only. Unless you already own an airgun of another caliber, the .177 eclipses all the other calibers in the role of training and education.
Timing of the session
Your training sessions should not run for a long time. Perhaps, half an hour per student is maximum. So, with two students, the session runs an hour, with each getting half the training time. As time goes on and the kids mature, you can expand this, but you need to watch the kids in a training situation to see when they’re ready for it.
In part 1, I talked about the rules of safe gun handling. I mentioned that the instructor can also make a “mistake” that the students should catch and provide correction. I’ve seen classes of young shooters become so focused on safety infractions that it was difficult for the instruction to proceed with the class because the students were waiting for the next violation. They LOVE correcting adults. So, use this. It’s a powerful training tool.
As Memorial Day has come to a close I pray that we never forget the fallen, the veterans, and those still serving as well as their families. Our men and women give their lives everyday for our freedom, help us to remember them everyday.
I hope and pray that everyone has returned home from their outings this weekend!
rikib
Hi BB,Edith and rikib:
I saw the last episode of ‘The Pacific’last night.
Are they showing that at the moment in the USA?
They should,especialy on Memorial day.
What a powerful series that has been.
DaveUK
Dave, I think the last episode was shown here awhile ago. The preview said that it was about what happened after the war. I was just following the series through previews and excerpts and my final impression was sort of like the reviewer of the Civil War film, Gods and Generals, who wrote for his headline: Ye Gods…. However, maybe I wasn’t doing the series justice. I’ll watch the whole thing when it comes out in DVD and fast forward through the parts about the girlfriends. I do think the series was better than The Thin Red Line about whom one reviewer wrote: “What if we had attacked the Japanese on Guadalcanal with bad poets?” Heh heh.
Matt61
Matt61:
I know what you mean about the lovey dovey stuff.
Like watching a Western movie and the collective groan in the audience from the lads when the leading lady makes her first appearance 🙂
DaveUK
I was looking for some assistance. I just mounted a red dot on my 2240. I mounted it forward of the bolt where it fit best.
What would be the best starting distance to calibrate at? I was thinking 10′ but not sure. It has been heavy rains and thunderstorms since I mounted it so haven’t even had a trial fire.
rikib
While I’m asking questions, anyone know what the accuracy distance would be for a .45LC fired from a 3-1/2 barrel?
rikib
I’d say it depends on how strong your grippers are. Pretty close to a 44mag w/ 4″bbl and that’s about 15 feet if a mad pig is coming for ya! Or 35yds for paper target destruction.
KA
Edith
Thanks for the tip to Safari, I’m really being to enjoy it on all my sites! 🙂
rikib
rikib,
You’re welcome. I think you & I are the only ones still up! I’m pulling an all-nighter. Trying to catch up on my work.
Edith
I’m usually up watching TV and checking in here. Wife is doing her Farmville thing on Facebook at all hours.
rikib
Wish I could help you out, but I’m not very familiar with airguns that’s why I ask so many questions.
rikib
p.s. email me if you or Tom think I can help in any other way.
Edith
Good luck with your all nighter! I’m calling it quits, taken meds, back to TV (Cold Case & Numb3rs). Still praying for Tom, he’ll be home soon!
rikib
Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.
I wander over to see what’s going on thinking I can get away with just a quick gander, but no.
From yesterday:
I see the question about the HW30S vs the HW50S.
The HW30 is the “S” because of the Rekord trigger. Makes Volvo feel like this Indian to see the name changed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4ozVMxzNAA
As far as cocking effort, expect a little more than twice the energy a rifle delvers in ft lbs. So if the HW30S produces 8 ft lbs at the muzzle and needs 18 pounds of effort, the HW50S at 12 ft lbs will need closer to 26 lbs. (other factors include length of the barrel, design, etc) and yes I have owned both, nowhere close to the same cocking effort.
The 50 does have “S” stamped on it. I would guess they don’t bother with the 30 since many are stamped R7 anyway.
AlanL,
“The only defect is the rear sight, which wiggles around left to right. That is the Achilles Heel of Weihrauch rifles.” Not sure what you have going on, but since you are at one HW, that is a pretty bold statement. I’m guessing you have a one in a million bad sight or just need some Loctite.
Volvo
I thought the “S” at the end of some HW rifles stood for “Select”. Select rifles would have the famous Rekord trigger AND the pick of the litter as far as the prettiest stocks and the best barrels. Second string rifles were called Mark IIs. Is my understanding mistaken? Is the trigger the only difference? I will defer to your experience.
Thanks for the link– I love that commercial, they don’t make ’em like that anymore. Little known fact, the ‘Indian’ is actually Italian! Momma mia!
SlingingLead,
Tom says the “S” stands for Sporter.
Edith
Seems someone else is pondering the “S” question.
The Yellow will be quick to respond, but the Vintage will usually take some time.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1275412662/What+does+the+%26quot%3BS%26quot%3B+stand+for+on+the+HW+rifle+line-
http://www.network54.com/Forum/405945/
The plot thickens.
Just saw where Tom said “sporter”, that would make sense. So far it appears they put the “MK” to denote the cheap one in the 30 series.
Volvo,
Just came back from visiting Tom and told him I entered his comment about the “S” standing for “Sporter.” Apparently, I was wrong. It stands for “Sport.” By the size of Tom’s eyeballs when I said the word “Sporter,” it appears I made a huge faux pas that will forever be a blot on his reputation 🙂
Edith
It’s amazing how just two little letters at the end of a word (er) can have such a huge impact. Sounds like you almost put Tom back in ER over er. 🙂
Edith
Thanks to you and BB for the clarification. It seems ‘Select’ was a designation that Beeman assigned to rifles that were worthy, so it has nothing to do with Weihrauch. My sub conscience melded the two together in an effort to make me look stupid. Sport makes sense.
“Sporter?” How could you? I imagine Tom’s reaction to be similar to this. Don’t sweat it Edith, you seem to come as close as it gets, but nobody’s perfect! 🙂
If I remember correctly my old Beeman catalogs, “Select” referred to the stock grain, etc, and not to the accuracy of the gun. I’ll look it up again just to be sure, and will eat humble pie in public if I am significantly wrong.
pete
Volvo,
Perhaps. But I have read others complain about the rear sight on Weihrauch rifles, so I thought I could safely assume I was not the only one to have a beef with it.
Where should I Loctite it? I have never completely disassembled the sight, like I have on my RWS Diana 54. Maybe I should. Since the front screw was rock tight (with Derrick’s excellent replacement screw) I thought the whole thing was as tight as it could get. Does your Paul Watts black beauty have a modified rear sight or is it stock?
-AlanL
Slinging Lead,
Your theory on the “S” denoting select is interesting, but I don’t think the translation will support it. For example the “K” means carbine because of the German spelling. Likewise I was under the impression that the “S” stood for special. I will try and get clarity on this.
AlanL,
One of the many outstanding parts of the HW rifles was always the supplied opened sights. Tom makes note of this when he reviewed the R1 for his book and it has always been a strong suit of the brand. If they have cheapened them recent years that is sad to hear.
Since many are removed for scoping, there is a good chance you can get a vintage set for your HW30S. In fact, that may explain why my old spares sold so quickly.
Thanks Volvo for your clarification.
Both of them look very very nice. I like the red finish of the HW50S more, but the 30 should be quieter, I guess?
Too bad that they only make stocks for RH shooter. As Edith mentioned, I’d have to learn how to shoot right handed by learning to close my dominant left eye, if I want one of these guns. I’ve tried it in the past and it’s hard with open sight (I like shooting with open sight). I wish they had ambidextrous stocks.
Tdung,
Yes the HW30S will make less noise and be easier to cock. If you are shooting at 40 yards or less and only need minimal critter control the HW30S is better pick. No need to expend the extra energy the 50 will need or be bothered with added noise. If you want a larger rifle or like the stock more, they do make a plinkers kit for the HW50S which takes the power down a notch.
Just curious…does using a peep sight work better than a notch for you right handed/left eyed shooters? You’d still be in the open sight class.
-CJr
CJr,
I’ve never tried peep sight, so I don’t know. I’d like to try it someday.
This might be a solution for me. Does anyone know which peep sight go with the HW30/S?
Thanks.
I have a question regarding PCPs. I am about to purchase my first PCP and decided to go with the Marauder in .22 caliber. I want to use a manual pump to fill it but need some help finding the right one that will last. I first considered Crosman’s offerings that is meant for their PCPs but have read too many reviews of it being unreliable and busting after a few uses. I understand that they need a cool down period every 5 minutes to avoid breaking the seals and that was my first thought that the users failed to do so. I am also looking at the Axsor but can not decide which would be best to get. Thanks for your help!
-Mlee21
My first issue would be how many reviewers? You can have 2-3 reviewers of a product that like it an the product gets 5 stars. Another product has about 300 reviewers, some are not happy so it gets 3 stars. You really need to look at the whole package, I’ve made a few mistakes myself going for what seemed to be a sure thing by others. Read all reviews positive & negative!
rikib
There will always be unanswered questions with this one.
There have been a lot of Crosman/Benjamin pumps sold. You could buy a Disco with the pump included. The cost of the pump is lower than the rest of the available pumps, so it stands to reason that many more cheap pumps will be sold in comparison to the more expensive ones.
So if one in 10 pumps of all kinds fail early, then you will hear more complaints about the kind that has been sold the most often.
You also do not know how many were destroyed by users who did not treat them properly. That also includes the temptation to overfill guns in an attempt to get more power or more shots. Of course the more pumps sold, the more often this happens.
I have an Axsor, an FX, and did have an Air Venturi . The first two are still working after much use on a pair of Talons. The Air Venturi died after about 6 months. The Air Ventury looks just like the Benji and Airforce pumps with the exception of the paint jobs. Also has the same specs. Both have bad reputations. Chinese I think.
You won’t see me pump for any 5 minutes . I pump 20-30 strokes, then take a short break. I only pump in 10-15 bar at a time. I never overfill. The pumps never get a chance to get hot.
If one of my two remaining pumps blows up, I will get a Hill pump. You can get rebuild kits for them. They cost more, but the ability to be rebuilt will make it worth it.
twotalon
Mlee
I have a Benjamin hand pump. My first one failed after the fourth fill or so. Crosman had a new one sent to me at no charge within a week. The second one has worked flawlessly. I rarely take breaks when pumping except to squint at the gauge every so often. I have never felt heat build up. I do take slow, deliberate strokes with a short pause at the end of each stroke.
TwoTalon made a very astute observation about the number of pumps out there versus failure rate. For example, men as a whole have worse driving records than a woman of similar circumstances. But men as a whole drive more often. More time behind the wheel = more chances to have an incident.
To contribute to the topic that BRONCO rifle seems ok for young shooters,but wille watching overview i have really tried to stay focused but that girl distracted me come on i am only human…. My opinion 1. one gun,they have to learn how to share 2.air gun not bb gun 3.come on they are guys GAMO LADY please dont 🙂 4. 177 cal is must ond of course 4.mechanical sights no scopes it is 10m shooting after all
Croatia-Serbia:
You are also a 25 year old ‘only human’ 🙂
Trust me,in another 20 years or so things will change.
My wife said to me,
“I wish you still looked at me like you look at that air rifle of yours”
I replied,
“I do,I want a new one” 🙂
DaveUK
DaveUK
Was that they deafening ‘smack’ I heard? I thought it was a jet breaking the sound barrier.
The other reply to that statement gets no better results.
“I wish you still looked at me like you look at that air rifle of yours.”
“Well… the rifle always weighs the same, and only makes noise when I want it to.”
Edith
I am not ordinarily a pig, but DaveUK is a bad influence on me.;^)
DaveUK
Sorry to have to sell you out mate, but I have to try and stay on Edith’s good side. She has guns, and you live safely on the other side of the Atlantic.
Croatia-Serbia
I agree with all of your points, especially the one about the Lady Recon.
Also, you have two #4s! Maybe they do things different in Croatia? 😉
Well Lead you give me codes but i am yust a balkan boy so ….what does 4 means i dont know ???
I understand THAT S BECOUSE OF BEER 😉
Croatia-Serbia,
When Tom gave me the blog, he mentioned only the mfrs and left it up to me to select the guns. I picked the Lady Recon because the Recon with the black stock has no open sights, and we’re teaching the kids to shoot with open sights before giving them a scope. Another thing…while this gun has a pink stock, the mother can use this gun as HER rifle and allow the boys to use it until she determines if they’re really interested in shooting guns and if they have the maturity to handle guns and concentrate on the subject at hand before shelling out money for 2 guns. If nothing else, the pink rifle will not tempt the boys to play with the gun around their friends. So, there are other benefits to the Lady Recon 🙂
Edith
Edith:
I agree whole heartedly with your logic.
This is by no means a shabby attempt by me to put the poop back in the donkey from my earlier comment. 🙂
Slinging Lead:
Like my rifle,the weight of my wife is pretty consistent but she has started leaking gas recently.
Could be the ‘O’ ring has perished 🙂
DaveUK
Edith -i cant help my self i always prefer wood ,maybe becouse as a kid i was shooting with crvena zastava and slavia ,and trust me they wont be popular with pink gun 🙂 . All kids loves airguns there is no help 🙂
Dave you are killing me :)!!!!
DaveUK,
Ha! Ha! Well said chap!
KA
I strongly support the notion of going straight to a pellet gun instead of a BB gun for a youth. Two big reasons:
1. Safety. BBs bounce back far, far more than pellets, which tend to deform on impact. I found it challenging to design a large, safe backstop for my boys’ BB guns, one that is big enough to stop wayward shots, can be left outside, and doesn’t have surfaces that bounce BBs. I came up with an imperfect downward-sloping backstop, but I still feel we’re all safer when we’re using pellet guns, even though we use use safety glasses regardless.
2. Accuracy. Aside from the 499 mentioned in the article, BB guns can be discouragingly inaccurate. The solution? Move closer to your target, which conflicts with the safety concern in #1.
I own the Daisy 953 and love it. Yes, it’s too big for my eight-year old to use *offhand*, but it’s fine for bench or prone shooting, although it is difficult for him to cock. I also enjoy shooting the 953. It’s a little small for an adult, but a good bit larger than, say, a Red Ryder. It’s essentially a lower-priced alternative to the rifles in Daisy’s Avanti 10-meter competition line. It’s quiet, has moderate power, has a handy 5-shot magazine, and is pretty darn accurate out to about 20-25 yards.
The Red Ryders of the world have a warm, favorable spot in our memories and history, but in my opinion, there are better youth alternatives available today.
JIM,here in Europe BB guns have never been popular(i have just recantly find out what it is :)) and yes bb guns (i supose)MUST have ricochet becouse they are weaker,as i already said i have seen a boy that almost lost his eye becouse (TOY)BB
C-S
There is an American movie called A Christmas Story.
It is about a boy in the 1940s that wants a Red Ryder Carbine BB gun for Christmas. Not only does the BB gun figure prominently in the movie (though rarely seen), but the whole thing is done very well overall and is VERY funny. Is this movie available there?
Just about every time he tells someone he wants a Red Ryder they tell him, “You can’t have that, YOU’LL SHOOT YOUR EYE OUT.” And it is very true. It is a total contradiction, BB guns are targeted towards kids, and yet they are more dangerous despite the lower power.
Check this movie out if you can find it. It is really good.
Yes i have seen the movie ,and i think cartoon too:)There is contradiction- well i have allready said lower power more chance for richochet
On the topic of filling PCP’s….
I have noticed that Crosman does not sell their PCP guns with the necessary fill connector.
PA no longer sells the required connector either.
This makes things a bit less than ‘handy’ for those of us who might like to use an extra pump that is on hand or can be purchased seperately if we do not want to buy the pump from Crosman.
twotalon
I am having trouble with the search function for the blog. I can’t seem to get it to show pertinent posts for the subject I type in. Anybody else having trouble with it?
Fused,
Can you elaborate a bit more on your search issues? What are you searching for?
Thanks,
Edith
Sure,
Over the last few days I have tried to research Slavia and RWS 34. Results as follows:
Typed in Slavia – results were 1)Breech Seating Tests 2)How and When PA got started 3)BKL Rings 4)HyScore 801.
Typed in RWS 34 – results were 1)IZH MP655 2)Benjamin Katana 3)Using Appropriate Pellet Guns 4)Webley Jr. 5).25 cal Benjamin Pellet 6)Stoeger X5 7)Crosman Town & Country
I’m sure that B.B. has reviewed the 34 a couple of times as well as the Slavia 630/631. In fact when I do a Google search in my browser his reviews for both can be found relatively easily. On the current blog search tool, I can’t find them at all!
Fused,
All the old blogs have not yet been moved to the new blog site. To find the older blogs, click on any of the links under the “Historical Archives” link in the RH column. You’ll notice that these are dated from March 2005 through December 2009. Once you’re on the old blog site, use that search facility to find what you need. I just did and found a bunch of RWS 34 blogs. Let me know if you need more help.
Edith
twotalon,
I just looked at PA’s accessories for Crosman PCP’s and am wondering what you mean by the fill connector? They’re just quick disconnects, male on the gun and female on the hose that goes to the pump or the device used to hook the gun up to either a CO2 or HPA tank.
Mr B.
The quick disconnect…the female foster connector.
twotalon
Ok twotalon, I see what you maen now. They’re no longer selling the Foster fitting as a separate item.
Mr B.
twotalon,
Did you call PA and ask about the female quick disconnect? Is it possible they have them but they’re not showing up on the online catalog? These should be very popular adapters since they are so convenient. I can’t imagine them not having them.
-CJr
I did not call them.
They used to carry them, but were frequently out of stock.
I have no need for one so I don’t care too much, but others might if they don’t want a Benji pump.
twotalon
I’d say a female Foster quick disconnect is essential ( unless there is another type quick disconnect available?) I have the Foster quick disconnect on my scuba tank and can’t imagine being without it. It also allows me to quickly convert from the Marauder to the Talon in two seconds.
-CJr
b.b. glad to see you back at it. I quite imagine you’ve seen enough of the inside of a hospital to last you a fair while.
Anyway, your comment on young shooters being safety conscience rings especially true after this past weekend.
My oldest was away at Cub Camp. We took the chance to invite a friend of my youngest (7) over for Saturday. I asked the young guys mom if she had anything against us bringing out the b.b. guns and giving him a shooting lesson. She was all for it. She is a single mom and she said her son doesn’t get a lot of instruction in ‘man stuff’ (her words).
Anyhoo, we set up some targets in the back yard, gave him a short course on aiming and safety and did some shooting. After a short snack break he wanted to shoot some more. He picked up the Red Ryder and Callum (my 7 year old) promptly marched up to him, put his hand on the gun and said “no one shoots without his glasses!”
This stuff does sink in.
cowboystar dad:
I have stripped down my B3 body and stock and rebuilt it using tighter screws on the fore stock.
I did a bit of sanding down recently to make the barrel free floating because it was touching the woodwork.
I may have put it back together a bit skew whiff before so hence the stripdown.
I will give it another pellet test when the weather is better.
What I would like for the rifle is a silencer and scope.
The trouble was that the scope rail supplied was a screw/bolt on affair.
Also the rear screw hole had been drilled a few degrees off centre.
I took the Rail off as a result and just used open sites.
I’ve since lost the rail I took off.I moved home a few times you see.
With no rail,no indents or machining in the rifle body I am stuffed as to how to fit a scope and subsequently a silencer either.
Thank you for yesterdays advice on the B3 by the way.
If I can get that rifle to shoot as good as it looks I will be one happy fella.
Cheers.
DaveUK
Dave in the UK: I have the B-3 AK in .177 and did not like the cheesy scope rail provided either, plus mine was crooked. What you can do is use a Weaver style base ( I used a #63,because I just happened to have one lying around , others might work) from the Williams Gun Sight Company. Glue the base on the receiver using JB weld, after cleaning off the receiver throughly with solvent. No need to remove the open sights. You could also drill and tap the receiver for extra strength, but will have to dis- assemble the gun to dress off the screws flush with the inside of the receiver tube. However, the epoxy has held fine for me, without making it into a huge project. Take care ,Robert
Robert from Arcade:
Great,many thanks for that.
Like CSD said before,these B-3s are tough and I think deserve a bit of effort.
Even though I am having this love/hate relationship with it at the moment I have had it nearly 12 years and it still gives me a buzz.
Cheers,
DaveUK.
Dave in the UK:
I should have said look for the scope base at Brownell’s who are a gunsmiths suppy company,and sell several types of Weaver style bases. Not the Williams Gun Sight Company. Sorry , but I was in a hurry and was thinking iron sights ,when I should have been thinking scope bases. They are cool little guns, and are now un-available new, so may become something of a collectors item someday. Robert
Off topic.
My Gamo Big Cat, I have not yet used Loctite (blue) on the bolt threads, but will. The mounts seem to be holding on the dove tail, but the scope is slipping in the rings. Will the Loctite on the bolts be enough, or should I also put some inside the rings to hold the scope better?
Thanks.
Gene,
What bolts are you going to Loctite? If the scope is slipping in the rings, don’t tighten the rings down too tight cause you’ll run the risk of denting the scope’s tube, been there done that. I’d try the blue Loctite between the rings and the scope. I think that would stop your problem. My Diana 35 would walk a B Square mount and a Beeman scope stop right off the gun until I used blue Loctite on the scope rail. Worked like a champ. Let us know what you do and how it worked.
Thanks,
Mr B.
“What bolts are you going to Loctite?”
The bolts that hold the scope in the rings.
“If the scope is slipping in the rings, don’t tighten the rings down too tight cause you’ll run the risk of denting the scope’s tube, been there done that. I’d try the blue Loctite between the rings and the scope.”
Yes the scope slipped all the way to the elevation/windage adjustments before I noticed it, but the the mounts did not move in the dove tail. I will use the Loctite in the ring bolts, and inside the rings, as you said.
“Let us know what you do and how it worked.”
Will do.
Thank you,
Gene
Gene
You may want to try inserting a shim between each ring and the scope tube. This should snug it up. For shims I use developed 35mm film negatives as BB suggested once. They are thin, flexible and have some give, which will protect the tube of the scope to some degree.
The scope and rings came with some double stick tape, I removed that to put some Loctite in there. It did not work, between the lack of tape which acted like a shim, and the slick Loctite, the scope slipped in the rings after only a few shots. I did not see the above post about using a shim before I tried this, it would have helped. I have been trying different rings with different scopes and my last Powerline scope doesn’t seem to fill the rings like the Gamo does, so back with Gamo rings and scope and Loctite.
Don’t forget the IZH 61 as a good starter rifle. Getting more pellets out with the aid of a magazine will have benefits in the long run. Speaking of weight, I’m having to relearn shooting somewhat with the Anschutz. Man is that heavy, and the trigger is extremely light. I thought I had decent trigger control but this is on another level. I can manage, but I would think this would be a liability for that final gold medal shot when the shooter is tired and oops, he touches off the shot prematurely.
BG_Farmer, nice shooting with the playing card. Do you take walks with your muzzle loader? That sounds ideal. So far, I’m confined to drawing the curtains and walking around with my Ruger in the holster.
In case yesterday’s question got missed, I’ll re-post. Leather workers! Can you tell me how much and how often to oil leather? In addition to my holster, I’m ordering a leather sling for the Anschutz rifle.
Matt61
Matt61,
Re how often to oil leather, that depends on what type of oil are you talking about, what type of leather and what are you expecting the oil to accomplish?
Mr B.
Matt,
The woods walk for the ML’er club is just targets set up in the woods — not a terribly long walk, but we load from our pouches and horns. Now that I’m set up for it, I think I’ll put some targets along my creek bank trail:). As you know, I shoot groups/targets mainly because I know I should — watching stuff jump or break apart is more my style:).
On boots, neatsfoot oil is hard to beat, but it may soften something like a holster beyond usability if you go too far. On a holster, I would just apply it (rub in with hand) in light doses until the _surface_ feels slightly moist and supple, but no more. The sling can probably be oiled until it is as supple as you like. I used to set stiff boots in the sun and then rub the oil into them; after a few applications, even the toughest, thickest leather will be very soft. Wait for better advice than mine, though.
Matt:
You want the gun heavy, and you probably want it nose heavy to slow down your own oscillations by adding to the moment of inertia. I’m a special case in that I’m still getting my strength back after the neck surgery and the years of atrophy before it. So I have lightened by FWB almost as much as I can. But I still want it nose heavy and am slowly adding weight to the end of the barrel. Going up about 2 oz tomorrow in fact as a test.
You may have the trigger a little bit light, but I can tell you that I want it so light that just a prayer and a thought is enough to go from end of first stage to second stage break and fire. That way you don’t disturb your hold. I’m well under 300 gm now, and that’s plenty to keep me from misfiring.
I’m getting my group size consistently down to about 7 mm in diameter, maybe 8, and closing in on the bulls eye now.
I should add, I have never shot prematurely. I’ve made some pretty damn lousy shots, but I’ve never squeezed one off by accident. You’ll get used to it and love it.
Results of last months bench rest Airgunarena eMatch. I hope the spacing works :
Creeper and Peashooter – GOOD SHOOTING!!!
Competitor —– State — AP make/model — Pellets used ———- Score
Creeper ——– Wash — HW97K .177 —– H&N 8.18 ————– 288
Pcsashooter —- Iowa — Daisy 953 —— JSB Exact RS ———- 275
Chuck3e ——– Ill —- Bronco ——— RWS Hobby 7.0gr ——- 269
Chuck3e ——– Ill —- Talon SS CO2 — Crosman Premier 10.5 — 267
Chuck3e ——– Ill —- Talon SS HPAir – Kodiac Ext Hev 10.1gr– 267
Getzen ——— Fla —- HW 50S ——— H+N Fld Tgt Trophy —- 260
Wingshooter21 — Ariz — Daisy 880s .177- Daisy Flat tip ——– 210
Lo and behold my Bronco beat out Mr T on CO2 and Air. This must not stand! I thought the Talon would be more accurate on air but not this time. I did shoot a 270 once informally with the Talon on air.
-CJr
How much air are you using Chuck?
If you are running it maxed out, try it around 170-180 bar.
Drop the PW down to just peak out on a fresh fill.
twotalon
TO ALL:
Any Bronco owners out there who can comment/critique this rifle before I send more greenies to Pyramyd?
Accuracy? Mechanical Innards? Trigger? Overall Quality? Stuff to check and/or fix before shooting? Scopes that fit and Ring Height? Other Comments or suggestions?
Want to know my advice about the bronco ? BUY IT !
Have no hesitations.
Following other people and the very nice PA techs advice here is what I ordered from PA to go with my bronco:
-Leapers Golden Image 3-9x32AO Rifle Scope, Mil-Dot Reticle, 1″ Tube
-Leapers Accushot 1″ Rings, Medium, 3/8″ Dovetail, 4 Screws/Cap
and a bunch of pellets.
I removed the ugly iron sights (the front one right behind the muzzle break really looks weird to me) as soon as I got it, it looks a lot better like that to me.
Like another owner/poster here mentionned there’s a part of the linkage rubbing on the stock underneath it but it’s not something to worry about to me.
I haven’t used it much yet but the 100 or so pellets I’ve put in it all went where I was aiming once the scope was sighted. Easy to cock, easy to shoot and more important easy to shoot well.
Brian,
Bronco: Very accurate, trigger crisp, overall quality is good, shot mine right out of the box, wouldn’t hurt to run a patch through the bore and check for black residue, any scope, my rings are b-square adjustable that end up medium height, the scope I mounted already had the rings on it from another rifle so I’m not sure about barrel droop, you won’t drool over the stock but it is functional. I have the IZH-61, Ruger Air Hawk and Gamo Recon springers and the Bronco is better than any of these. It’s lighter than the Ruger but heavier than the 61 and Recon. It has a much better trigger than any of the above. It’s as easy to cock as the 61. It doesn’t twang.
-CJr
“easy to shoot well”
that about says it all
thanks J-F
I forgot to mention, mine likes Hobby 7.0gr very much. Don’t get a scope too long because it will stick out over where the barrel breaks and you won’t be able to cock it. 12″ is good, certainly no more than 13″. My scope is 13″ and it is mounted as far back as I can get it for my eye relief and I could still get another inch forward if needed but you might need yours farther forward (I don’t know where your cheek weld is) so 12″ would give you plenty of leeway. The scope PA recommended to J-F is 11.8″ and a nice scope.
-CJr
Brian,
I needed to do more homework. I said my scope was 13″ and it is (close) but it’s one of these slanted in the front. The long part of the slant is actually 13.5″ to the eyepiece and the short part is 12.5″. I could move this scope forward about 1″ and still be able to cock but if the whole scope was 13.5″ I’d have to have it as far back as possible with no leeway at all – this may not work for you. Go with a 12″ scope.
-CJr
Thanks for the info CJr. I was thinking Bug Buster for the Bronco but… as short as the tubes are on that scope it doesn’t leave much room for for/aft adjustment at the ring position for eye relief position? And I really dislike those offset mounts so, Leapers or Centerpoint std length type scopes looks like the ones.
Brian,
Those Leapers and Centerpoints look nice on the Bronco, too.
I did some more precise measuring and found the following: My scope, which is similar to a Leapers, is moved as far back as it will go in the rings and on the rail, the eyepiece is 5.25″ from the back of the back ring, the eye piece is 9″ from the butt of the stock, the shortest part of the objective (bottom, since it’s slanted) is 1.5″ from where the barrel breaks. So the eyepiece could be, at the most, 10.5″ from the butt. I hope that gives you enough to play with.
-CJr
I have a question regarding co2 guns. How long can a co2 powerlet stay in the gun? IF its in there too long will it just run empty or little by little leak out or will it be fine Like the day I put it in?
George I have CO2 guns that have had the cartridge in them for months and still had gas. However, I have no way of knowing if they are like the day I put them in, though. Really, I don’t think they should empty except maybe over years. Depends on the condition of your gun and the seal, of course, and if you’ve been using pellgun oil on every cartridge. The Pellgun oil is very important!
-CJr
I posted this question just before 1am, don’t know if anyone seen it so I’m reposting it again:
I was looking for some assistance. I just mounted a red dot on my 2240. I mounted it forward of the bolt where it fit best.
What would be the best starting distance to calibrate at? I was thinking 10′ but not sure. It has been heavy rains and thunderstorms since I mounted it so haven’t even had a trial fire.
Thanks
rikib
Hey Rikib, start at 10′ – you want to get the pellet on the paper target in roughly the area where your red dot is pointed. Once there, you can move to say 20′ and dial the red dot in. Once that’s done and it should only take two or three pellets per station or distance, move to the normal shooting distance for yourself and re-adjust the red dot after you’ve fired a pellet and you’re done. It’s not very time consuming or difficult at all.
Fred PRoNJ
Thanks
That seems along the line I was thinking, starting close and moving back. Thanks again.
rikib
rikiB
Do you shoot your targets at mostly one distance? If so, I would zero the red dot at that distance. If you shoot at a wide range of distances, I would maybe zero at 20 yards or so.
SL
I think I’ll start in closer to make any major adjustments and then move back making minor adjustments as needed. Thanks for your help!
rikib
I’m going to play heretic. I like all of Tom’s thoughts on teaching kids how to shoot save one. I really don’t think 7 is old enough to have the responsibility of shooting, not even a low-powered pellet rifle. True, some few are mature enough, but for the most part they aren’t. I’m not worried about what they might do while Mom or Pop is watching; I’m worried about what they might do when they think they know how to handle the gun and get a chance to shoot when no adults are around. Kids have to get in the habit of treating a pellet gun (or even a BB gun) exactly as they would a firearm, and that’s tough teaching to do.
I think ten is a better starter age for most children unless the parents are absolute fanatics about gun safety and keep both guns and pellets under lock and key all the time.
As for which gun, if there are still any decent CO2 pellet rifles around, I think I would choose one because it eliminates the frustration of having to cock the gun when you’re really a bit under-sized for the job. Unless a break barrel has a really reliable anti-beartrap safety, that would worry me too.
I started at 10 or 11 with a Daisy BB gun at summer camp, and graduated to .22 at Scout camp a couple of years later.
Pete,
I agree with much of what you are saying. Especially that they need to treat all guns the same way. I do allow pointing of the orange-tipped, non-firing guns or foam dart guns, etc., in play, although I wonder even about that sometimes. Anything else that fires a projectile is treated just like a .30-06, including BB guns. I don’t know who the idiot that devised airsoft was, but he should in fact be shot, as it teaches horrible habits.
I was started shooting at 6 by my grandfather, with a single shot .22. There was no question that it was deadly and that if I slipped up in even a minor fashion with it, I would get a beating and probably never shoot again. There was also no question that if I should touch a guns w/o permission that I would get a beating and probably never shoot again (much less walk:)). I did not get a gun of my own, even a BB gun until several years later. I disagree somewhat with your view that being acquainted with guns is tantamount to being careless with them, as I would rather a child know what they are and how dangerous they can be. For example, you never can tell what they might run across at a friend’s house, rummaging around the nightstand or whatever. They need to know that they are not to touch a gun without adult permission until told otherwise and why, lest they think it is simply something fun we are keeping from them. A properly instructed child should be just short of afraid of touching a gun with permission.
Pete,
IMO, the proper time to teach a child gun-safety is when they first become curious about them. Around here (Memphis suburbs), that is often as early as about 5 or 6, which is when a lot of schools and churches run them through the NRA Eddie the Eagle program. It’s great for both teaching good safety habits and for removing the “forbidden fruit” appeal of a gun as quickly as possible. Shooting lessons should follow when they get curious enough to want to shoot. Obviously, every child will get curious about things at different ages.
Proper teaching at the pertinent times will help to enforce good habits to carry them through the rest of their life. This used to be known as building character and was encouraged from early ages 😉
There is a huge difference between teaching a child gun safety and teaching a child how to shoot. Eddie Eagle, AFAIK, doesn’t teach kids to shoot; the program teaches them not to touch a gun and to call an adult. And even if EE teaches shooting, I still disagree that 7 is an appropriate age.
I had real problems when my daughter was in junior high because the guy next door not only had guns in the house, he was extremely careless with them. Son & daughter would pull them out of night stand or closet and brandish, etc. Not cool. Finally my daughter was told it wasn’t safe to play with her next door neighbor’s daughter inside their house. Inside ours was fine, of course. My air guns were locked up.
Pete,
I didn’t say that the Eddie the Eagle programs taught kids shooting skills, because they don’t. They do, however, set the foundation for learning shooting skills at a later time. Which is why I said that hooting lessons should follow. The EE program is a first step, and a very good one.
BTW, the difference between learning gun safety and learning good shooting skills isn’t huge, rather it’s a natural progression from set of skills to another. Sort of like crawling before walking. It’s difficult to teach good shooting w/o first teaching good safety and not advisable to try anyway. Good safety habits help build good shooting habits.
Sorry to hear about your situation with your neighbor. Are you saying that your son and daughter would handle his guns, or that your neighbor’s children would pull them out while your son and daughter were playing over there? Either way, I totally agree with your course of action regarding not letting your children play at their house. Your neighbor (and his children) sounds like someone who could have used a good course of instruction from old EE.
Is this the scope that is on the 2260se ?
/product/centerpoint-adventure-class-6x32ao-rifle-scope-illuminated-mil-dot?a=1654
thank you for answering, its a big help. Im still new to this.
George,
It sure looks like the one on my 1760SE that I sold last year. It was a fine little scope, too, and one that I wouldn’t hesitate to purchase separately.