by B.B. Pelletier
I would like to thank all the readers who commented on the Benjamin pump effort reduction project last Friday. You gave us a good idea of how the market would react to this endeavor.
Today’s post is for a reader who has wanted this pistol reviewed for a long time. I’m sorry that it takes so long to get around to things like this, but I’m glad to finally be doing this report.
The Daisy Powerline 008 is a CO2 pistol that shoots both BBs and pellets. It has a rifled steel barrel with extremely shallow lands that can accommodate steel BBs without damage to the rifling. The pistol uses a standard 12-gram CO2 cartridge hidden in the pistol grip. The piercing mechanism is unique, in that it uses a roller bearing for smooth operation and there are no user adjustments. New owners don’t have any adjustments to learn, just drop a fresh cartridge into the space provided and close the backstrap piercing lever. Snap the left grip panel in place, and you’re ready to go.
Backstrap rotates back and down. Note the roller bearing that puts tension on the CO2 cartridge when the backstrap rotates back into position.
Flip-up barrel
To load the 8-shot rotary clip, release the barrel and flip it up at the back. The white plastic clip has a hole in the center on one side only, and it fits the steel pin under the barrel. Don’t worry about indexing the clip when you install it – the gun takes care of that automatically. Each clip has a magnet, so it stays in the gun by itself when the barrel is flipped up. The magnet also holds BBs in place, so the pellet chambers can be sized appropriately for the larger .177 lead pellets.
Clip is easy to load and to install in gun.
The barrel pops up to receive the 8-shot clip. It’s held in place by a magnet.
Double-action only
The action is DAO, so even though there is a hammer visible in the frame, it will not stay cocked by just pulling it back. The trigger must be pulled for every shot. The trigger-pull is delightfully light and smooth. A wide trigger blade helps spread the effort. If you like to shoot action pistols, you’ll enjoy this trigger.
Very ergonomic
The pistol fits the hand quite well. Some readers have criticized the curvy appearance of the grips; but when you hold the pistol, you know why they did it that way. The manual safety is located at the right rear of the frame. It’s a spring-loaded one that you must pull back to move. When it’s on, the trigger is no longer connected to the hammer.
Sights
The non-adjustable sights are a classic square notch and ramp front. They look very square, but have a little too much space on either side of the front post. However, they’re easy to align and the sight picture is easy to acquire. The gun I tested shoots just to the left of the aim point, which is probably a function of the DAO action. As a righthander, I tend to pull shots to the left. The gun has no provision for mounting optical sights or lasers, so don’t even ask. With an all-plastic exterior, it would take a special mount, indeed, to overcome this drawback.
My test pellets
For this test, I used RWS Hobbys, Gamo Match, a Chinese wadcutter that I’ve used for years in 10-meter competition and a Czech pellet called the Diabolo Standard.
Accuracy
I was able to shoot offhand groups that ranged from 1.5″ to 2.5″ at 20 feet. The Chinese wadcutters were the most accurate pellets by half an inch. The others were about comparable, except the Czech domes, which were clearly in last place. Shooting was two-handed because of the DAO operation. A double-action only pistol is not a target gun, so this accuracy should be considered minute-of-pop-can, for which the gun is intended.
Best 8-shot group fired from 20 feet. Gun shot to aim point, but DAO trigger caused shots to drift to the left.
Velocity
The pistol is rated to 480 f.p.s., but shooting in a 71-degree temperature, I didn’t see it. Hobbys were the fastest pellets, at 411 f.p.s. average. The Czech domes were next, averaging 393 f.p.s. Chinese wadcutters averaged 375 f.p.s., but with a surprising 35 f.p.s. spread. The surprise was that they were the most accurate pellet, though 20 feet is hardly far enough to separate the pellet holes by velocity. Gamo Match averaged 360 f.p.s.
As expected, BBs went faster than pellets
BBs are faster, of course. Daisy zinc-plated BBs averaged 435 f.p.s. under the same conditions as the pellets. Accuracy was better than expected. From 15 feet, I shot a 2.5″ group to the same point of aim the pellets were going. So this will be a fun BB plinker. Remember that everyone in the vicinity should wear safety glasses when you shoot BBs, because they rebound from every hard surface.
How many shots?
This gun is a little hotter than the average CO2 pistol. It only gets about 40 shots or five magazines before needing a new CO2 Powerlet.
Bottom line
If you want a DAO action pistol that can shoot both BBs and pellets, this is one to consider. Don’t expect it to compete with Umarex pistols costing two and three times as much, but it is a viable alternative to pistols like the Gamo P23 and the Crosman 1088.
BB,off topic sorry,i have fitted a 23.5 inch walther barrel to my rapid .20,the gun now is 48 inches long,the power has gone up from 20 ftlbs to 25ftlbs,if i take the barrel back to 19 inches what power loss might i exspect,is ther a limit you reach of a barrel length when it doesent make much of a difference,is ther an optimen length before the power starts dropping of.
Nathan,
Check out this blog, posted recently by BB.
Michael in Florida
OOPS, I guess it would help if I included the URL.
/blog/2007/7/how-barrel-length-affects-velocity-in-a-co2-rifle/
Michael in Florida
There will be a power drop. Use the velocity of your old barrel against the new one to create the formula for discovering how much.
Yes there is an optimum length and as I stated before, I know of no published research that tells us where it will be. But it will be caliber specific, so the larger the caliber, the longer the barrel can be. That’s a deduction from black powder, which is very similar to compressed air.
B.B.
BB
Off topic, but I want to know more about how companies test their weapons. This post mentions 480 FPS rating compared to 435 Actual top end. Also, your posting of the Gamo “Hunter” Extreme mentions great disappointment in it’s published velocities. Just how do they get away with these claims, and when you see them advertised, how can you judge how close they are so you don’t buy disappointment because of it’s velocity rating? (I’m also curious about the Ben 392’s actual compared to advertised 675).
JP
JP,
Companies test velocities with the lightest pellets they can find. Lately (in the past two years) I have been told by several companies that they are adding a percent to their velocities that they believe to be the “industry standard.” Some companies, though, advertise the exact velocities they get, so it’s hard to tell who is right and who is lying.
B.B.
Guessing, but it looks like Pyramydair lists the product’s advertised velocities. Perhaps they ought to publish tested velocities they’ve obtained, or refer them to the product’s Blog review link. Would they do that? JP
JP,
They already do. When I test a new gun, Pyramyd is supposed to link it to the gun and adjust the velocities. However, some companies may have clauses in their sales agreements that force the dealer to use only the specifications provided by them. In cases like that, no change will be made.
B.B.
B.B. Can this gun shoot .177 round balls as well as BBs? Thanks.
hi bb
whats the deal with the new dual caliber beeman guns? how do you change calibers? wouldnt switching throw off your poi by alot? i dont mean pellet wieght i mean by shifting the barrel. can these guns even be accurate?
Nate in Mass
Round ball,
Yes, any airgun that can shoot pellets can shoot .177 round lead balls unless there is a warning not to. The clip will hold them.
B.B.
B.B.
In reference to yesterdays blog. Are there any differences in the 392/397 and the CB9? Other than the stock and the cal? Any internal differences?
And, should JB compound be used on a brass barrel?
Thanks
JMY
JMY,
No internal differences between the 392 and 397.
Don’t use JB Compound on a brass barrel. It will wear it away. It removes brass from steel.
B.B.
B.B.
Thanks, but the first question was if there were any differences between the (392/397) and the cb9.
I know the 392/397 are the same except for the caliber, are they the same as the blue streak cb9 which is a .20 cal.
Thanks again
JMY
hi bb
whats the deal with the new dual caliber beeman guns? how do you change calibers? wouldnt switching throw off your poi by alot? i dont mean pellet wieght i mean by shifting the barrel. can these guns even be accurate?
Nate in Mass
JMY,
There are cosmetic differences which may affect the fit of certain parts, but you can be sure that as many parts as possible are common to all three guns. This has changed over the years that Crosman has owned Benjamin Sheridan. The guns are more alike today than they were in 1992.
B.B.
Nate,
I answered you the first time but for some reason, it didn’t get posted.
Dual-caliber air rifles are not new. They were around in the 1930s. Mendoza has offered one since 2003. And back in the 1970s, the Webley Hawk was another one.
As for the POI, of course it changes. You must rezero the rifle every time you change the barrels
I have to do that with my Whiscombe JW75, which is a 4-caliber air rifle.
As for accuracy, we’ll see when I test it soon.
B.B.
OFF TOPIC REPOST FROM VIPER EXPRESS PART 3, seeing as this post is newer I thought maybe it would get replied to faster…
Well B.B.
My second Viper Express came in the mail not too long ago from the Sportsmans Guide. IT TOO WAS RUSTED AND FAR WORSE THAN THE FIRST! I called customer service and requested my purchase and membership be refunded the guns are on their way back right now.
So be wary when and if you purchase airguns (or anything else from them in that matter). I never had problems before with them but now I do and its a large one!
B.B. I just picked up a varmint hunter and when I cock and fire, it goes twang, the thing literally sounds like a Red Ryder. Is it supposed to this or did someone before I purchased it, dry fire it and ruin the spring.
-AirgunRevolutionary
-AirgunRevolutionary,
Almost anything might have happened, but a modern Gamo shouldn’t be that twangy.
B.B.
Hi BB,
This question, on the artillary hold, is off topic but is sparked off by a TV snip showing rehearsals at the venues for the 2008 Olympics.
The snip showed what appeared to be the 10 metre air rifle. The shooters supported the fore-end of their rifles across a clenched fist. Is this common practice and if so what is the advantages or disadvantages compared to supporting the fore-end with the open palm?
I don’t have a gun here but when I compare the holds it seems that the clenched fist lowers the elbow and brings the upper arm closer to body providing more stability.
I also remember seeing a photograph of a reviewer supporting the fore-end of a PCP across the crook of his elbow. This looked a very relaxed hold that could have advantages in the field when the arm could be supported on a tree branch or a fence rail.
So a supplementary question: Is there one hold that is good for all situations (or indeed for all rifles)?
Sorry for such a long post but as always I appreciate your advice and experience.
Terence
Hey BB is Pyramyd bringing back the IZH-60 and MP651K? I see it under the
IZH-Baikal category.
BB, it seems that some new Gamo’s are very twangy – they tend to vary a lot. Gamo has also been playing around with their rear guide diameter, for some reason some newer guns have a smaller one.
My CFX is twangy as all get-out. In fact, I’d really get annoyed with it IF IT WASN’T SO DOGGONE ACCURATE!
As for the pistol you tested, I would have thought that 1.5-2.5″ groups at 20′ are pretty poor. I’ve got airsoft guns that’ll do that! Or am I expecting too much accuracy from an inexpensive pistol?
Im truly sorry to be so off topic, but since at the beginning of the review, you talked about requests of reviews. I was wondering if you could review the gamo viper. Not the express. I just ordered the airgun and wanted an opinion on the gun. Thanks!!!
I just got the Viper,
its simply awesome. The scope was slightly difficult to sight in, but the good thing is that u dont need a tool, u can just use your fingers. bull barrel is way thicker than i thought. and i’m the guy who reviewed it on pyramyd air product reviews. Very easy to cock, as I was used to the Winchester 1000X. Longer cocking though, which I suspect is due to a longer spring. Gamo Hunters get clover groups at 20 yards. Hunters are better than Match in this gun. Very accurate, for some reason, sometimes breaks sound barrier with Master Points. Overall Great Gun.
Robert
Terrence,
What you saw was an alternative method of the artillery hold. Those Olympic rifles don’t need it as nuch as everyday springers do, but that’s where thje artillery hold came from – world-class target shooters.
There are MANY variations of the same hold.
B.B.
Bryan,
I seems they are. I’m glad to see the 60 back after so many years. It was always a favorite of mine.
B.B.
Vince,
Reguarding the 008, I wouldn’t choose it for myself, but then I don’t shoot pistols or rifles that use both pellets and BBs. Their rifling is a compromise for the BBs and as a result, they suffer.
B.B.
Viper,
I have wondered about this gun myself. When I tested the Viper Express I said I felt the Viper was probably pretty nice, based on how the Express cocked and fired.
I see above that one of our other readers likes hius very much. Why don’t YOU tell us about your new gun?
B.B.
Viper guy,
My Viper absolutely loves RWS Superdomes 8.3 gr. Shoots them faster than 7.9 grain premiers and is very smooth and accurate with them. Have tried many others but it likes the Superdomes the best.
Good luck with yours & let us know what you think.
LS.
Hi BB ,
You said that you do not like pistols or rifles that use both pellets and BBs because of the rifling.That’s mean better to choose pistol that use only BBs or only pellets .Can you please campare these two kind pistols .What about velosit, accuracy,muzzle energy and penetration .
Dino
Dino,
I think I know what you want – a comparison between a pistol that shoots only BBs or only pellets against one that shoots both. Unfortunately that’s comparing apples to oranges, because you have to get several different pistols to make the comparison. What’s to say other factors aren’t influencing the outcome when several different guns are involved?
Instead of that, I would like to do a report on airguns dedicated to one brand and type of ammo, only. How accurate they are, and is there a significant difference between them and guns that shoot two types of ammo.
Would that be okay?
B.B.
Yes ,this is my question .And another one. How good is 8-shot revolver mechanism compare whit the guns that use stick magazines? Is it more likely to have jamming or it is better one?
Dino
Dino,
Okay, I will schedule that for the blog.
I find round clips to be more reliable, on average, than stick magazines.
B.B.
Thanks for that . I hope it will be interesting for many people.
If round clip system is more reliable that mean for me Walther CP 88 is the best choice.
B.B ,I read your posting about it but you did not say anything about it velocity . Could you please tell us what velocity you got whit it .
Dino
Dino,
If you mean the Walther CP88, I did report the velocity in part 2 of the report.
/blog/2006/7/walther-cp88-tactical-part-2/
The velocity ranged from 372 to 469 f.p.s., depending on the pellet.
B.B.
Hey BB, I know you did your blog review of the Crosman C11 .177 BB pistol a while ago, but me being relatively new to owning BB, airsoft, and pellet guns, I just stumbled upon your report of it. I am seriously considering buying it and wanted to know if based on a few criteria I have, its a good gun for what I want.
Criteria 1:A relatively modern looking pistol. As in a semi auto.
Criteria 2:CO2 powered and .177 BB ammo.
Criteria 3:40-60 USD price range.
Criteria 4:decent punch of around or over 400FPS and good for all around fun(target shooting, etc).
Criteria 5:Semi automatic firing, double action etc. If you could answer this, it would be of great help to me! Thanks a lot,
m16a
m16a,
The Crosman C11 seems to meet or exceed all your requirements.
It’s not really semiautomatic, but double action, which some confuse with semiauto.
It shoots steel BBs, not .177 ammo. Steel BBs are .175, though some manufacturers mismark them as .177. I say that because you cannot shoot true .177 lead balls in this gun.
B.B.
Ok, so can I pull the trigger and each time I do,will it shoot without any extra work(such as cocking it)? Thats what I was really asking I guess. Thanks for the help,
m16a
m16a,
Yes, that’s how it works. A shot for each trigger pull (nothing else) until you’re out of ammunition.
B.B.
Alrighy, thanks a lot BB! Your insight and review has been much appreciated! I guess I will be purchasing the C11.
The C11 is DOUBLE ACTION ONLY which means you WILL be cocking the gun in addition to firing it when you pull the trigger. Trigger pull inevitably suffers.
If its within your budget, consider the PRO77 instead.
The Pro 77 doesn’t reach his desired power level. And he now understands the difference between semiautomatic and double action.
B.B.
Hi BB ,
I ‘ve just found that many sellers offer double action guns for semiautomatic :
http://www.airgunwarehouseinc.com/crc11co2pobb.html
http://www.airgunwarehouseinc.com/gamo611135054.html
http://airgunwarehouseinc.com/aiskaairpi28.html
Is there any CO2 gun that is semiautoatic or all are only doble action.
If there is can you give example.
Thanks Dino
Dino,
Yes, there aren’t very many true semiautos around. There’s the Crosman 600 (vintage), The APP 661 (vintage), The Magnum Research Desert Eagle (current) and the Drulov DU-10 (current).
In the target pistol world there are sevral semiauto guns, but they start at about $1,500.
B.B.
bb,
i have been debating between the crosman t4 and the daisy 008. witch one do you think is more accurate (with pellets)? witch one has more power? i like the dual ammo, because i have a surplus of bbs(over 3000), but i want accuracy with a pellet.
thanks
john
John,
These two guns are about the same with BBs and pellets. Not too many BB guns that also shoot pellets are accurate. The Crosman Mark I is, but of course it is a vintage gun.
As for power, again they are about equal.
B.B.
Hi Everyone!
I know the post said that there was NO option for addition sights, but I was wondering if anyone has found a laser/optical sight since the original post almost a year ago. I own a 008, and very happy with it, but would love to have an alternate sight.
Thanks in advanced.
JR
JR,
Daisy did not put scope mounts on the gun, and the curvy profile makes fitting an aftermarket laser next to impossible.
B.,B.
I just got my Daisy 008. Wow. It is all that I wanted: CO2 repeater, about the size of my CCW, good enough accuracy, clean fit and finish. The T4Crossman was a disappointment for fit and finish, very clunky to load and a bit larger than my favorite CCW. Overall the 008 is perfect as a simulator for draw, aim, fire drills. I would say one better than 007 🙂
-John M
hey is the piercing pin a circle i is half the circle covered i dont know if mine is messed up and i dont have co2 canisters to testt it right know
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you are asking.
B.B.
Hi is there any better gun on the market in terms of power than the 008? Obv still a C02 pellet repeater handgun?
This report was written five years ago, so there are dozens of BB guns that have come to market since this was written.
I don't know where to begin answering your question, except to restate it. Are there any air pistols that are not better than the Daisy model 008?
B.B.
lol BB, ok my bad. Im obv a newb here.
Alright in that case.. would you kindly give me a few names of THE BEST (in your opinion) pellet hangun repeaters for someone on a budget of < $200.
Many thanks,
Pires
Pires,
You have asked for the best PELLET repeaters. The most accurate pellet handguns are not repeaters, until you spend over $1,000. So at under $200 you are going to get what is available. It will be reasonably accurate, but will not keep up with a good $35 single-shot.
Why don't you tell me what you want to do with this gun, so I can choose the best possible models for you to consider.
For example, are you wanting to shoot action targets? Do you want to shoot paper targets? Is the gun strictly for fun and are you interested in how fast it can shoot?
And are you certain that it is a PELLET pistol you want? What if there were a BB pistol that was fast, and reasonably accurate?
B.B.
Hi BB – thanks for your reply. You may be suprised with my responses to your questions.
What i'm looking for, is a self defense gun for my house. I live in the UK so am not able to buy a real handgun, so i am thinking a real enough looking pistol may just scare people off without having to actually fire it.
I've got pepper spray but would like an alternative home defense tool. I'm now starting to wonder if a pistol repeater is not what i should be looking for. I've been exploring other possibilities such as paintball guns and now think this may be a better deterrant.
What's your views?
Many thanks for your help,
Pires
Pires,
Well, I'm glad you cleared that up for me!
First, I would never advise using anything to "scare" a criminal. Some of them are high on drugs or adrenalin and cannot be scared. They will call your bluff and you will be worse for the experience. If you use a gun, you must be prepared to go all the way — to kill the other guy.
A friend of mine is a Brit and has the same restrictions as you. So he took up martial arts. It has come in handy more than once, including once here in the U.S. when his motel room was broken into in the middle of the night. His wife, who is also a black belt, beat the crap out of the intruder!
There is a You Tube video of a Brit in the same situation. See it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBxSMCCAUgc
But I advise against using an airgun for self-defense.
B.B.
awesome thanks BB.. funny that.. i've just taken up jiu jitsu! Thanks for the response