by B.B. Pelletier
Earlier this week, we discovered an unpublished two-part guest blog that Vince wrote…last March! He’s been busy with personal things and hopes to get back to this blog some time soon. This guest blog has all the neat things we’ve come to expect from Vince’s handiwork of fixing and working on vintage airguns.
If you’d like to write a guest post for this blog, please email me.
Bloggers must be proficient in the simple html that Blogger software uses, know how to take clear photos and size them for the internet (if their post requires them) and they must use proper English. We will edit each submission, but we won’t work on any submission that contains gross misspellings and/or grammatical errors.
Peeping Tom – Part 1
Well, I had to think of a catchy name for this one, and “Peeping Diana” or “Peeping Wayne” didn’t quite cut it. And writing about “Peeping Wayne” might not have the, uh, best impact on the poor man’s reputation. So, since this is Tom’s blog, this is my title and I’m sticking with it.
OK. Enough filler. Wayne likes peeping… er, I mean peep sights. So, naturally, he wanted a peep mounted on a gun that has absolutely no provision for it whatsoever. And on a gun that has some gen-u-wine collector’s value, a prewar Diana 27, which means that I can’t (well, don’t want to) do anything that can’t be easily undone and leave the gun relatively unscathed.
When Wayne first asked me about mounting a peep on this thing, I automatically thought of copying Diana’s later method of putting a scope rail on a gun, which would then give us something to mount the peep sight to. I’d get a rail and fasten it to the top of the tube with small machine screws, grind down the protruding threads on the inside, and be done with it. But a PRE-WAR Diana? Naaaahhhhhh….I briefly kicked around the idea of soldering a rail onto it, but that would have required buffing the top of the tube clean, thus removing any finish that remained. Even though that’s not as invasive as drilling holes in the tube, I still didn’t like that idea, so out it went.
The next idea was to glue on the scope rail on. After all, we used to use Goop (or something similar) to secure the laughably mounted rails on the old B4-2 series Chinese underlever, and this 27 is probably in the same general power range. But on the Chinese rifle, the glue served merely to keep the rail from shifting from side to side; on this gun, it would be expected to do all the work of holding it on. This idea fell further out of favor when I thought about the glue possibly damaging the remainder of the finish if the rail was ever removed.
Finally, I concluded that the best idea might be an adapter that wraps around the tube like a hose clamp. I could go really simple and have the peep sight base clamp actually hold the whole thing together, and there’s no way it oughta come apart during use. This is what I’m figuring on when Wayne’s gun shows up.
Wayne warned me that it was gonna be a bit rough, and he was right. Mechanically, it was pretty good. Apparently, it had been overhauled shortly before he got it, but the finish is almost non-existent on the tube. No matter. First, I’ve got to figure out if my idea is even gonna work. I’ll need some space along the tube near the rear where I can position the strap, so I pop the action out of the stock.
Perfect spot for positioning the strap.
Bingo! I’ve got just about 1″ behind the cocking slot to work with.
Essentially, I’m going to be making a very short strap-on dovetail mount. The first thing I did was make the actual dovetail pieces. The old table saw I got from my dad allows me to angle the blade at 60 deg. from horizontal, which matches the angle on the Mendoza peep sight clamp.
This saw is older than me, but not older than Tom or Wayne. ‘Nuff said.
I cut some .75″x.1″ bar stock at the required angle. I ground the plating from what will be the bottom side of the end piece and cut it to a length of about .22″.
The angle is cut.
The bottom side plating is ground off.
And the piece cut off.
I repeated the above steps, and now I’ve got the two halves of my mount.
Short for a dovetail mount, but it’ll work.
Like it was made for it! Well, actually, it was.
And they fit very nicely into the Mendoza peep.
Next step is to make the strap that’s going to hold the whole thing together. At first, I was going to make it out of brass, but I decided against that for two reasons. First, because that would force me to solder the end pieces onto it instead of brazing them, and I wasn’t sure that soldering would be as strong as I wanted. Second, I didn’t have any brass, and the one store I checked didn’t have any either. Instead, Wayne is getting his adapter made from the highest grade of coffee can stock.
I figure on making the strap .75″ wide to match the dovetail length, so I dug out a coffee can and started cutting.
I couldn’t use a decaf can, it wouldn’t be strong enough!
Turns out that the .010″ thickness of the coffee can works out about perfect. I wrapped the metal strip around the action and popped it back into the stock.
Test-fitting the strap.
The metal is snug without unduly impacting the fit between the stock and the action. Which is, of course, just what I wanted. Now, I can proceed as planned.
The metal strap with one of the end pieces.
I used part of a tri-square to make sure I positioned the end piece perpendicular to the strap and used a small (Chinese knockoff) vise-grip to clamp it in place.
Chinese vise-grips, Chinese tri-square, nothing but the cheapest!
The end piece is brazed on, I did some careful measuring and marking (the details of which I will spare you), cut the strap and brazed the second piece in place. Wrapping it around the tube again shows that I seem to have measured and cut pretty accurately, and (I think!) it’s good to go!
Looks pretty much like what I had in mind all along.
It’s a bit of a hassle, but I finally got the whole thing wrapped around the tube AND the sight clamped over it. The base clamp on the sight pulls the end pieces together and tightens the strap just as I had planned.
Yep, it fits like a glove.
Since this is steel, I’ve still got some concerns about damaging the gun, so I take it apart and put a layer of cellophane tape on the inside of the strap where it contacts the surface of the gun.
Cellophane tape is very thin–less than .002″–so it won’t interfere with the fit.
I remount the adapter with the sight and reassemble the gun.
The mount works just as it should!
After cleaning up the outside of the strap with my cheap Dremel knock-off, I noticed something unexpected. After brazing, the strap metal took on a yellowish patina that doesn’t look terribly out of place on the aged finish of the rest of the gun. The photograph shows a bit more contrast than is apparent to the naked eye, and it might stand out more if I blacken it. So, I’m leaving it as is.
Wayne’s old 27 now has a rear peep sight mounted. Of course, the stock front sight is so low that it’d shoot about a yard high at 10 yards if I tried using it with the relatively high peep. So, I’ve gotta do something about the front. And I’ve gotta do it with old toilet paper tubes, broken shoe laces, used gum wrappers and anything else I’ve got laying around…because I’m cheap and don’t like spending Wayne’s money!
83 thoughts on “Peeping Tom – Part 1”
great job man!!!
Very impressive job indeed. Ingenious…..
Very cool mod!
My RWS 350 shot high when the stock open sights were fully bottomed out.
I modified it to shoot correctly by removing the front sight pin insert and sanding off the finish to bare metal on one side.
With some wire and a soldering iron I extended the front pin to correct the gun's point of aim. Making the wire longer than I needed. I tinned the wire to make it ridged.
Finally, I progressively cut the wire to a shorter length until the rear sight had a decent range of elevation adjustment; neither bottoming out nor topping out.
Bravo, Vince. Craftsmanship isn't dead!
As always, good job Vince. Your last name wouldn't happen to be McGyver would it?
Al in CT
Good blog. Great engineering on your part. Thank you sir. Hope that whatever personel things you're working on turn out well for you and yours!
I've got an OLD Bushnell Phantom pistol scope that is held on the top of a pistol by a strap that goes around the top of the frame and comes together to make the dove tail rail that the scope slides into just like your mount does. It came with different straps to fit different makes of double and single action revolvers.
wtg Vince….you are very clever!!!!!!
Hope everything is starting to settle down in your world.
Looking forward to when you have the time to come back to the blog and contribute your wealth of knowledge. There's a big void without you.
The best articles always seem to come out on Fridays.
I'm sorry to be off topic but I'm out of patience.
You mentioned that you did an article on the FX REVO and it would appear in Shotgun News in November. I keep checking the website and even looked at the recent November issue of Shotgun News.
Do you know what issue of Shotgun News your article will be published in? Thanks.
Now, here's a topic I'm very much interested in at the moment–glue. Veteran's Day was celebrated by taking my $350 radio controlled Corsair fighter plane out for a spin. On the first try, the battery hatch came off as I hand-launched and the battery was swinging in the wind. The balance was thrown so far off that a hard landing was the best I could do, and I lost a chunk out of the wing. After despair and lamentations, resolve took hold and ingenuity. I fashioned a patch out of a toilet paper roll, and in less than an hour, I was back out at the field. This time, a beautiful hand launch and that warbird made a grand circuit of the field. Then it took an unexpected roll and flew backwards over my head into the sun where I lost sight of it. My next view of the plane was it nosediving right into the ground! I'd say I lived through a fair amount of aviation history all by myself. I can also say that I am deep into the study of glues and tape and so far Gorilla glue and tape seem like the best. I have unlimited admiration for Vince and others who can make things with their hands.
Volvo, did you ask about the IZH 61? I shoot mine with the Leapers Bug Buster in medium Accushot mounts. It fits right into the scope rail and it does not budge for tens of thousands of shots. The rifle is doing great and is holding its own against the B30.
Tunnel Engineer, sorry to hear about your troubles with the Mosin Nagant. I keep hearing how this rifle is so reliable, but the guys at the range next to me with a surplus Mosin Nagant were having a lot of trouble with jams. Perhaps the Soviet Union did not particularly care whether the rifles jammed on their soldiers or not. I'm trying to see what elements of Russian manufacturing, of which I'm a great admirer, are in the Mosin Nagant, and I haven't come to a conclusion.
BG_Farmer, sounds good. I won't get out to the range until the end of the month; I'll let you know when. What distance did you shoot at?
My favorite two part epoxy is SuperMend. Better than gorilla glue in my experience.
Like most 2 part epoxy's, mixing long enough and thoroughly enough (you need to feel the heat on your hand through the mixing cup) is key.
Off topic on a Friday? You've forgotten that it's open blog, sort of, every weekend.
Six times a year, Shotgun News puts out a full color issue. November 20th is the date of the one that article will be in, so look for it on newsstands NOW.
If you miss it, they reprint some of my features articles in their annual Treasury that comes out the following summer.
My column is always in the last issue each month. They print three issues a month and the last one is dated the 20th.
I cannot let this pass. The people who have problems with a Mosin Nagant rifle are the same people who break bowling balls! The Mosin is a dead-nuts-reliable rifle.
HOWEVER, you can't be a fool with it. Someone has to instruct you how to load the box magazine with cartridges or the gun will malfunction, just as Glock pistols are well-known for blowing up when fed reloaded ammunition.
Is that the fault of the gun? No more so than a gasoline engine that won't run on diesel, or a PC that can't run Mac software.
Thanks. I've been patient and silent since you mentioned this almost 2 (?) months ago. I went to three newstands and a bookstore yesterday. Not here yet.
You haven't made deliveries to Colorado yet. Please get in your car and hurry.
Mt car! I wish!
They have me peddling these things around on my Schwinn!
Re: Mosin Nagant
Reporting back from the front…
Went to the range today and was able to fire 32 out of 40 rounds.
The accuracy is way better than I expected. Once sighted in, I would be within a 2.5 inch radius around the bullseye using iron sights at 100 yd from the bench. As I mentioned yesterday, I was using Wolf ammo (steel casing)
Here is what I figured:
– It takes a certain technique for the extractor to engage
– Even so, two out of three do not enegage at the first time. Most eventually engage after trying several times in subsequent reloads
– In many cases, the casing just jumps ahead of the bolt. So, need to push faster just before this happens
So, in conclusion,I will try surplus ammo and see if there is a difference. If I still have issues, I most definitely have an issue where the casing is not being presented correctly or the extractor is too short or has too little clearance
I love this rifle. It handles so well standing, it is actually more comfortable to hold steady than many air rifles
Now, I had a question about a bowling ball I broke last night and I was wondering if someone can help me…
That's the stuff!
Keep it up! And use epoxy on that ball. Kevin can tell you how.
Matt61 (and kevin),
my glue of first choice is GOOP. It's extremely tenancious and sticks to almost anything. When the rearview mirror in my old Sable Wagon detached itself from the windshield (thanks to mother-in-law, may she rest in peace, trying to use it to pull herself up), I tried the industry glue meant for mirror repair, superglue and finally in desperation, GOOP.
The mirror was still attached to the windshield up until the day the car died, which was this past June.
Great job on the clamping strap, wherever you are. I save coffee cans for no other reason than they seem like they might be useful. One time I used up all the 1lb. empties as couplings to string together dryer hose — must have saved at least $8 on that project alone:). We still use a coffee can that I cut up and shaped into a star from our first Christmas tree, too. Drives the in-laws crazy:).
25 yards offhand. JB Weld is the end-all of redneck repair work — you can even make small parts out of it:).
I would really like to see what Vince did to the front sight to make it higher without leaving lasting evidence after removal. I have a Mendoza sight and would like to elevate the fore sight but all my ideas seem to involve invasive surgery! Any ideas anyone?
Anyone who can help,
I am replacing the piston seal in a Walther LG 55. Does any moly grease go on the piston seal itself? I don't think so, but I want to be sure. Thanks in advance.
Hey guys I just got a replacement pump back from crosman. Only problem is that in the box, the hose was kinked. I read somewhere that once a hp hose was kinked, it's ruined. Is this a problem?
Ton, the front sight comes next. I had to make one from scratch, and it actually didn't come out that bad.
My compliments. I may just use that myself.
I found myself fashioning a temporary glue-on (actually double sided tape)
rear sight leaf from the one of the end pieces of a set of "Thumblock TV Grip Fasteners". Flipped over, the locking lever actually looks like a rear sight. The glue holds the plastic base in place strongly, yet can be peeled off rather easily without leaving a mark.
Anyway, someday I'm gonna want to replace it with a real sight.
This is what they are:
For anyone who owns the S&W 586 and doesn't fancy the matte finish, I just had a great experience cold bluing the gun. I thought it wouldn't work as the zinc alloy is not a ferrous material but decided to experiment on the cylinders and then the revolver itself. On first application, it leaves a very dull oxide residue, but once this is completely polished off using steel wool, 10 more applications of the bluing solution with polishing between each application resulted in a very smooth satin sheen finish. As a bonus, the obtrusive white lettering is nearly invisible (just the etching remains).
Yes, moly goes directly on the sides of the new piston seal and also burnished into the walls of the compression chamber.
Try the hose first. Assume nothing. Some materials are bad and some don't mind kinks.
Kevin and everyone,
I will be out filming American Airgunner here in Dallas today. So could you please watch the comments until I get back this evening?
mines a leaker 🙁
too bad cosman is closed till Monday. I hope thell just send me a hose cause I'm not waiting two weeks and paying another $15 to ship it. I'm pretty surprised with crosman and the way the pump was packe. With the base of the hose only 1.5" from the side of the box that was kind of asking for it.
Sorry to hear that it's a leaking hose. I have nothing but praise for Crosman's customer service folks. Ask them if they'd be so kind as to send you a replacement hose under warrenty. Cause you sure want to shoot your gun, but cann't–maybe with a tear in your voice–cause of hose problem. Also offer to send them the defective hose in today's mail.
Please let us know how they handled your request.
I just finished reading Tom's article in Nov 30ths Shotgun News.
Thanks for mentioning it the other day.
Edith, please you must spank blogger cause the Word Verification is "commi".
I can't be too harsh on bloggers' word verification. When I posted something the other day, the WV was shefyne 🙂
That's so weird, how did a software program know that?
Very nice blog!
Can I put open sights in an air rifle that doesn't come with open sights?
Welcome! I agree with you. This is a great place for airgunners.
You can put open sights on an airgun that doesn't come with open sights IF:
1-There are provisions on the gun for the sights.
Typically you need a dovetail on the end of the barrel but there are "slip on" sights that go over the front of the barrel. Make sure the OD of your barrel will fit the slip on sight you choose. There needs to be holes pre-drilled for mounting the rear sight. Make sure the hole dimensions match the rear sight you choose. Although a good gunsmith could "tap" these holes most gunsmiths work on firearms and don't realize the thin amount of tube there is to work with on an airgun. They're used to meaty firearm barrels.
2-Your sight set matches.
If your front sight is too low, or too high you won't be able to align an accurate sight picture.
Let us know what gun you have that didn't come with a set of sights and we may be able to help more than my generalization.
Yes, Matheus, provide us with some more detail. Make and model of your air rifle, age, and does it have a muzzle brake on it? Does it have scope groves milled into the tube or is there a scope rail on top of the tube?
Sorry if this is completely irrelevant, but I have a few questions.
As a first air rifle, would recommend a pneumatic or spring-piston air rifle, and what are some pros and cons of each?
No real airgun question is irrelevant here.
I recommend a multi-pump pneumatic as a first airgun. It teaches the airgunner how to sight and how to use the trigger before they graduate to more difficult guns such as springers. The drawback is multi-pumps are slow and many people dislike them for that.
Spring guns are the most difficult guns in the world to shoot accurately. They are easy to cock and load, but to shoot them well you have to be a real marksman. The benefit is that if you can shoot one well, you will be able to shoot anything well.
Another suggestion: Daisy Powerline 953 TargetPro by Daisy. At $72 it is an excellent, accurate, single pump pneumatic. It is a target rifle, however. You didn't mention any hunting so this rifle would be ideal for you and it only requires a single pump. It also has the ability to feed one pellet at a time or put in a "clip" that holds 5 shots. Go here at
PyramydAir and look at it. However, if you expect to hunt, a multi-pump would give you more power, maybe.
Go here: https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-powerline-953-targetpro?m=585
Excellent article!!! You are a very resourceful person and a good writer to boot. I enjoyed you post very much.
I've been out of the loop the last two days because I tried to install Windows 7 on top of XP and ended up trashing it. BEWARE! You will lose everything on your C drive – it is designed that way – and after the install is complete you will have to reinstall all your games and applications that were there.
Windows 7 will install as an update on top of Vista keeping everything pretty much intact but on XP it is a complete wipeout install.
Took me two days to destroy and rebuild.
I can vouch for BBs comment on spring guns. I had a love hate relationship with my first gun, a springer, for six months and then one day I seemed to be on target all the time.
Now I can shoot handguns, rifles, and shotguns with precision an accuracy along side people who have been shooting their whole lives.
Another option is to go CO2 for training. The RWS 850 seems to have got a good review by BB here's his write up:
If you're considering a springer for your first gun then I would recommend buying a gun with no more than 1000ft/s in 177 and 800ft/s in 22 to keep the spring power and spring vibration in a range that's manageable for a new shooter.
That's my 2 cents, I'm sure others will have a different take….
Chuck, was Windows 7 your idea?
I'm certain Airguns are BB's idea.
I was thinking more along the lines of a Benjamin 397, but thanks for all the helpful comments!
I was thinking on adding sights to an evanix ar6/renegade. Would it be possible?
Thanks Kevin and Vince, very helpful
Also, which kind of pellets work best in multi-pump pneumatics (light or heavy)?
Heavy pellets work best in multi-pumps. That doesn't mean light pellets will be inaccurate. Pneumatics generate the most energy with heavier pellets, so they get the maximum benefit from the pneumatic powerplant. Specifically, look at heavy JSBs. For your 397, look at the 10.2-grain Exact domes.
The Evanix Renegade rifle was not meant for open sights, so while it might be possible to add them, it would be a costly chore. You want to start with a gun that was meant to have sights, and then see if the sights it has can be removed. A gun like the Renegade that has no sights has no provisions for mounting them, either. It was made with a scope in mind.
As you now know, there isn't an off topic question here as long as it's loosely related to airguns.
I have a couple questions, if you don't mind, that may lead to more specific/accurate suggestions for the airgun you're looking for.
First, what task will this "first airgun" perform? Hunting? (if so what will be hunted?) Plinking at short ranges? (shooting plastic golf balls around the back yard) Long range target shooting? (trying to get smallest groups on a paper target at longer ranges than plinking) Who is this "first airgun" for? (7 year old daughter, 67 year old father-in-law with bad eyes or ??)
If you don't mind taking a moment to answer these few questions I think you'll find suggestions that are "more on target"!!
It will mostly be used for plinking and short-medium range target shooting, and the air gun will be for me (14 year old male teenager).
Also, if it helps, I wear glasses.
Sounds like a 397 would be ok for what yu want.
If you want a nice little springer instead, an HW 25 or 30 would be good.
Thank you for the additional information. That helps alot.
I'm envious of you getting into quality airguns at such a young age. You have a whole life of great airgunning ahead of you and you're entering this sport/hobby at a time when there are many great guns entering the marketplace at affordable prices.
The Benjamin 397, that you're leaning towards and many have already recommended, is a terrific first gun for your needs at an affordable price. Did you know that the Benjamin Air Rifle Company heritage dates back to 1899? Their Benjamin Models 392/397 is the backbone of their success. Truly a classic gun that is well built and you will be proud to own 50 years from now. The ability to shoot the Model 397 accurately with only 3 pumps or powerful up to 8 pumps makes it several different guns rolled into one.
If you choose the 397 remember to always leave one or two pumps of air in the gun before you put it away. Also remember that the barrel is brass so you never want to clean the inside of the barrel with anything abrasive and never use firearm gun solvents on an airgun since it can eat the seals.
Another classic that makes a great first gun that you will be proud to own 50 years from now is the R-7 breakbarrel springer. Much more money but worth every penny:
Remember that quality pellets (like those recommended to you by others) are critical for accuracy.
Good luck with your choice and keep us posted on your progress.
Thanks for your help! If I were to buy the 397 (which I probably will, now) what should I clean it with?
Unlike firearms, airguns have no combustion to foul the barrel so you never need to clean your barrel. SOME more powerful airguns that have STEEL barrels (the 397 barrel is brass) that shoot SOME types of pellets benefit by very infrequent cleaning.
The only think you need to do with your 397 is wipe down the metal after shooting with a silicone cloth. This removes the grease and salt from your handprints that can cause rust.
B.B. has now written over 1,200 articles on this blog. They are all in a library. By using the search box over on the right side of this page you can research just about anything airgun related. For example, type "cleaning a barrel" in the search box and see the wealth of info available.
Good luck and have fun!
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Consider this also. These represent a great value. While more plastic is used compared to the one
I received on Christmas in 1972, I have shot the newer versions and they are still a very nice rifle.
Easy to scope and cock at about half the price if that matters.
What ever you get hold on to it, if not 37 years from now you’ll wish you had not sold it for $15.00
towards a 10/22.
Thanks for all your help, I appreciate it! If there's any more tips you could give me, please do so.
Re: Other tips
Type in "benjamin 397" in the search box and read everything you can about this gun before buying. I don't think you'll find anything negative but it pays to be informed.
The only real drawbacks to the Benjamins are that pumping can be hard and scoping it is a challenge. You're young, so don't worry about the pumping:). As long as you know about the scope and are happy with open sights or a peep (better than scope for learning, anyway), you will be fine.
The only suggestion I might make is consider the .22 — its great in the pumpers, but you will give up a little in pellet choices.
Volvo's suggestion is a good one, too. My best friend growing up had the same thing with the 4×15 "sniper scope" option, and it was extremely fun to use, and accurate as well, although my memories are usually rose-colored that far back:).
I not sure exactly what you are asking me about my Windows 7 warning.
If you're asking, was I was forced into it, I was not, I actually attempted it of my own free will because that is what I like to do when I'm through shooting. After this attempt I would have been better off to keep shooting.
Just let me say, before you attempt an upgrade of either XP or Vista, make sure before you start that there are in fact W7 drivers for all your devices.
I could tell you more of my experience but this is probably not the place for that. Just keep in mind that the W7 "upgrade" is a "clean" install for XP, and by "clean" it means it CLEANS EVERYTHING OUT FIRST then does the install. You lose all games and applications on the C drive and they have to be rebuilt with the original disks. I hope you saved all your original disks.
With Vista it is more friendly and does and update in place retaining everything.
Are you tuning your LG55?
Is that LG55 a new model cell phone?:)
CJr and B.B.,
I owe both of you an apology for taking way too long to test the Sun Optic scope that I purchased.
Guys this is the scope the B.B. told us was going to change the way scopes are made.
However, the one that he had for testing did not pass–issues with magnification–actual magification was less than what the numbers on the scope said it should be.
I've got to say that having the level inside the scope is a wonderful idea whose time has arrived.
Like Chuck's review I also have one caviat. This kid is not an optical engineer, but I think my tests and results are valid.
The only assumption that I've made is that a mill dot is a mill dot the world over.
The Sun Scope was compaired to a Leapers Mini Swat. I compaired the number of mill dots between two points at 3, 6, and 12 power in both scopes. The number of mill dots was the same in both scopes which says to me that each scope exhibited the same amount of magnification at those powers.
But that test didn't tell me what the actual magnification of each scope was. It only told me that at the tested powers they had the same magnification
I then boxed the target with the Sun Scope set at 12 power. One shot to establish a POI. Twenty clicks of elevation were then dialed into the scope.A shot was fired at the establised POI. Twenty clicks right windage were then dialed into the scope with another shot at the establised POI. Twenty clicks down were dialed into the scope and another shot taken at the establed POI. Finally twenty clicks of left windage dialed into the scope and the last shot at the established POI was taken. The last shot almost hit the very first shot that established the POI thus completing the box. Boxing the scope tests the repeatability of the windage and elevation controls.
Sorry to be so wordy, but I wanted the new folks to fully understand the what and why of boxing a scope.
The blue illumination works well and I like it better than the red or green used in other scopes.
The 40 mm objective lens IMO is more than ample for 90% of most shooting needs. Besides, again IMO, most scopes today are too darn big and heavy. They make my PCPs way too top heavy.
B.B. if you can you might want to revisit these scopes. Perhaps Sun Optics has emproved their quality control.
Thanks for that review. It backs up my inexperienced findings. Nice process – boxing the scope. I remember reading about it somewhere on this blog. It was a BB thing. I'll have to try that. Sounds like a good way to test a scope.
There is also a newer scope out at the same vendor, same mfgr, same inside level but goes to 16 power and has a 50mm objective fo $30 more. It's a 30mm tube also.
I checked PA for a 30mm B-Square adjustable scope ring but didn't find any. I wonder if they will be stocking those sometime. The vendor does sell a SunOptic version of them for a very reasonable price.
I would like to say about the level scope, the field of view is a bit unusual in that it is not round it is flattened at the top and bottom with round sides. This might give the optical illusion of a smaller image.
BB, the one I have looks exactly like the Leapers with the slanted objective and mine goes to 12x power. Is this what you tested? The most recent Sun scope I've seen has a standard flat fronted objective and goes to 16x power. Which one did you test?
I tested a 4-16 power sun optics scope at 16 power. At that power, objects appeared to be as far away as they did in a Leapers scope set at 7 power. The Widefield shape of the lens had nothing to do with the evaluation.
Sun optics.. Isn't that who makes the Benjamin pump?
That explains why your results are different from Mr. B and me. We are not testing the same scope.
Also, Here is an email exchange I had from the scope vendor.
"Hi Chuck, always good to hear from you…The 4-16×50 has the same close focus distance (10M) as the 3-12×40 . Chuck I also want to give you a HIGH FIVE on your comparison test and thought it was very well done. The sample B.B. referred to has already been sent to an independent testing laboratory for analysis. Not sure who B.B. is there but we have known and dealt with Josh for over 20 years. Hope for B.B.’s sake he wasn’t just trying to push another brand.
Thanks for your swift reply. I can assure you B.B. was not trying to push another brand. He's just not that kind of guy. He is actually Tom Gaylord and he reviews most of Pyramydair's products. When we were at the NRA show in Phoenix last April we were shown the SunOptics scope with the level inside and were very excited about it. He finally got his hands on one to do a "feasibility" study to have PA sell them. The scope he got didn't have the optics he thought it should have. I don't
know the details except he said the magnification on the scope he had at 12x was no better than one of his other scopes at 7x.
Duane Sorenson knows exactly who I am. We live about 10 miles apart.
He can't have been doing business with Josh for 20 years, because Josh hasn't been in business that long.
Please drop this issue.
Other than playing with lubes, I won’t be tuning the Walther LG 55. It was supposed to have a new spring and seal in it already.
I did get an Izzy 61 Friday that was new old stock. I found it on Gunbroker for $75.00. Still in the factory sealed box with a manufacturing date of March 2006. I will try and muster a report on it soon.
As you wish, Captn.
Hello to everyone!!
It has been quite awhile since I last wrote, but have been reading every article since then… Great job… Now that my AirForce Talon SS and I have developed somewhat of a symbiotic relationship in which I treat the rifle with love and he treats my targets with precision and accuracy!! LOL… I want to really exploit its talents… So, I am learning to measure distances using the Mil Dots on my AirForce Mil Dot 4-12×44 AO scope… I have all the information necessary and equations memorized, but at what zoom setting does my scope need to be on in order to measure the distances??? Low, 10x, or Max Power?? Another question, how do I count the mil dots for a target that is too big and occupies all the mildots and exceed them??? (Don't know if you understood)… By the way, I think that this could be a future great article for your blog B.B.!!! Great JOB!!!
I was quoting the laughable win7 commercials that are running. No more than that, just some light humor 🙂
***Correction: AirForce Mil Dot 4-12×50 AO scope
***Correction: AirForce Mil Dot 4-16×50 AO scope
OK — thought you might have got the bug; one more advantage springers have over PCP's:).
If its the metal receiver, you hit the jackpot…but even if not, still a great deal. Look forward to the report.
Ranging using mil dots depends on your particular scope. The manual will tell you which power the scope needs to be set on for accurate range finding. For your other mil dot questions here's some reading:
Hope it helps.
I haven't seen those commercials yet. I usually DVR anything I want to watch then fast forward through the commercials. I'll have to hit play when I see the MS symbol I guess for a good laugh.
Happy to say I am still bug free. Now back in ’87 a buddy of mine did have a little visit from the critters, possibly complements of The Million Dollar Salon in Dallas. We thought it was going to a place like in the John Wayne movies with a bunch of western types – but that’s another story.
I think a fair deal would be I’ll try and tune a Springer when you buy a PCP.
The 61 is metal. Don't want to steal my own thunder, so I will leave it at that. I put a low ball bid in on about 100 airguns a year, and I usually win one per year. In 2008 it was the Diana 25 circa 1933 also for $75.00.
Right now I have a guy that will sell his 98% R-8 to me, but I also have a possible obligation on another rifle so I am in a bit of a quandary.
You're waffling on a 98% R-8 for another gun?
Can't wait to hear about the other gun.
Wow, I take a little journey to shoot in the Calif. State champ match and come back to find my Diana 27 the topic on the blog!
That is my favorite of the four versions I've got…. a winchester 427 made in Germany, another 427 made in Turkey, and another Diana 27… these are IMHO, the best all around springer ever made.. not that I know much about springers, but of the 40 or so I've got… these are my favorite mid size.. My very favorite is the little Diana 25.. I still say that's the best starter gun for a young child. (like 8yrs or so)….
Vince, I hope your settled into your new house now, and your Dad is feeling better..
I'm so proud to know you, even if it's from a very long distance!
Keep up the great work and your very great attitude!
Wacky Wayne, MD. Ashland Air Rifle Range