Back yard friendly

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

This report covers:

A shooting club “silencer.”
How loud does it sound to you?
Sound meter
Verdict?

This report is about a test I have wanted to do for years. How to make your small suburban back yard friendly and still shoot airguns.

A shooting club “silencer.”

Maybe 20 years ago a shooting club in northern Virginia was challenged to abate the sounds made by gunfire. They took old tires and bolted them into a tunnel in front of each firing position, so the muzzles of the guns would stick into the tunnel. Channel iron bars on the outside of the tires held them together. And it worked!

That gave me the idea that a large cardboard box might do the same thing for an airgun. And, with the recent exposure to the Ataman AP16, I thought the time was right to test my theory. So I played around in my garage, which is where my bullet trap is located and I discovered that the box has to be really big. Also, standing too close to the bullet trap made the impact of the bullet louder on the steel trap than I liked to make a good assessment. So I went outside.

The box I used is the one my electric bike came in. It’s three feet tall, four feet long and two feet wide. I cut small holes in each end of the box — higher on one side so I could shoot downward for safety.

How loud does it sound to you?

I asked my neighbor, Denny, to go into his back yard and listen as I shot. I fired a CCI CB Short from a Remington model 33 single shot rifle. That’s right — I shot a .22 rimfire rifle in my back yard. CB caps are not as loud as regular rimfire cartridges. Some of them don’t even have gunpowder inside, though many do! This cartridge fires a 29-grain lead bullet at 710 f.p.s., according to the label on the box. When I tested them years ago they really averaged 686 f.p.s.

Sound meter

I shot one outside the box and another with the muzzle inside. Denny said the one fired inside in the box sounded about half as loud as the one outside. But I knew that a subjective guess wouldn’t satisfy you guys.

Safety

I set up a silent pellet trap to eliminate the sound of the bullet hitting the steel trap. This rifle bullet was generating just under 30 foot pounds of energy, which that trap can easily handle. And I installed DBX, an app that turns your smart phone into a recording sound meter, on my smart phone to measure the sound.

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Ataman_AP16_Standard_Air_Pistol_Desert/4946rifle outside
I’m shooting the rifle outside the box.

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Ataman_AP16_Standard_Air_Pistol_Desert/4946rifle sound outside
Outside the box the .22 CB cap registered 88.2 decibels peak volume (lower right number).

When the muzzle was halfway inside the box the sound dropped to 80.5 dB.

Acousticians tell us that there is a perceived doubling of sound for every 10 dB increase, so Denny was pretty close when he said it sounded half as loud.

rifle inside
When the rifle’s muzzle is halfway inside the box…

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Ataman_AP16_Standard_Air_Pistol_Desert/4946rifle sound inside
…the discharge sound dropped to 80.5 dB.

Next I tested the Atman AP16 PCP pistol. Outside the box it registered 104 dB.

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Ataman_AP16_Standard_Air_Pistol_Desert/4946AP16 outside
Outside the box the AP16 registered 104 dB on the meter.

AP16 sound outside
Outside the box the Ataman AP126 pistol registered 104 dB on the meter. Ouch!

Inside the box the AP16 dropped to 90.4 dB. That’s less than half as loud as before.

AP16 inside
With the pistol’s muzzle halfway inside the box…

AP16 sound inside
The sound dropped to 90.4 dB.

Verdict?

The box works as a portable silencer for louder airguns. It’s cheap and quick to make, but it has to be large to work well. Would it have worked even better if the box was lined with insulation? Probably.

I may use it for testing loud airguns in the future. If you give this a try, let us know how it works.

134 thoughts on “Back yard friendly

  1. We always think of suppressing the individual gun, but not the range you are shooting many guns on, and guns that you can’t easily attach a suppressor to.

    Very cool idea…

    The military has to use something a little more substantial than cardboard…

    Yes that’s a suppressor for a self propelled gun.



    • Gunfun1,

      Anything that could help slow down the sound waves will help. You could probably quiet down the porch by strategically placing a lot of tall leafy plants around.

      Siraniko


      • Siraniko
        Yep plants would work.

        And at one time I was trying different length barrels on my Maximus. The barrels had no muzzle brakes or anything. Just opened exposed barrels.

        I was shooting from my breezeway. When I had a longer barrel on the gun and it was outside of the window the report from the gun was quiet when in the breezeway but loud outside.

        Then when I put a short barrel on the gun the report was loud inside the breezeway but quiet outside.

        So alot of things can make a difference.


      • We used to use empty egg cartons to muffle sound and make a poor man’s anechoicchamber. Having a layer of foam, layer of egg cartons (this was back when they were pressed cardboard rather than styrofoam), another layer of foam, than a final layer of egg cartons worked very well. We were trying to quiet down a band practice room rather than dampen airgun noise. But it worked! -bes


    • How about a 4 ft (or whatever length) “tube” of shag(?) carpet inside a tube of acoustic insulation, inside an 18 inch diameter, 4 ft. length of corrugated plastic (black)culvert?

      Insert muzzle into one end of tube, diameter of which is adequate to sight through (scope/whatever), and fire.

      Sound energy hits shag, penetrates to insulation, penetrates to corrugations in culvert – remaining energy reflects every which way from curved surfaces in culvert.

      For bench shooting, of course, …would be a tad awkward from the shoulder, no?

      Should be cheap enough if it works 😉



        • Since nobody asked:

          CBS because CrosmanBenjaminSheridan is an eensy bit long.

          I’m an old guy with childhood favorites burned in my brain!

          Long live wood, steel (brass?), and multi pumpers!


      • CBS,

        Sounds real good! Some carpet padding between the carpet and tube would be a nice addition. I would imagine though,.. that plastic driveway culvert would come in 20′ lengths.

        Chris


        • Chris,

          Yes, 20 ft lengths, as far as I know. I’ve bought several, all buried under driveways now, with no short lengths left over. Carpet padding might/might not be as effective (for the middle layer) as the “acoustic insulation” I mention, …whatever someone comes up with that is most effective.

          I can’t remember if the inside of the culvert is corrugated like the outside, or smooth ( a double layer), for a better water flow, less dirt/debris entrapment. I pictured the corrugated inside as better for dispersing the sound energy, …maybe someone can address this inside configuration?

          I just remembered, I have a 20 ft length of 30 or 36 inch diameter, …I’ll take a look at the inside and see how it is done. Perhaps the 18 inch is the same.



        • GunFun,

          …or at least someone may see some leftover lengths at a landscape company or someplace, and can let the rest of us know where they found it.

          If the idea works, 4 of these could be made relatively inexpensively, and the 3 “extras” could be sold at a gunshow or to shooters living nearby.



            • Everyone,

              Looked at 3 different diameter culverts yesterday, …all were double wall – heavily corrugated outside, but smooth inner surface.

              So, sound would have to penetrate both layers to escape thru the tube wall, … not sure if the corrugations of the outer surface would actually aid in dispersing the sound energy

              This means 4 substances to contain/impede the sound propagation, shag carpet; insulating material; smooth inner plastic wall; outer corrugated plastic wall.

              Perhaps a chicken wire or hardware cloth inner core to maintain the tube-shape of the inner liner materials.

              Simple enough construction, …unknown as to effectiveness.

              I eagerly await the results of some brave soul’s experimentation 😉


              • CBS,

                Thank you for looking into the construction. It makes 100% sense that the inside would be smooth (for not collecting debris),…. but at the same time, I 100% fully expected them to be like field tile, which is just a single layer.

                I have no need to make one,… but I think it would work quite well.

                Chris


              • CBS
                Or do like I do if I want to keep my shooting quiet.

                Shoot from inside a breezeway. You got to keep the barrel inside the room though.

                Then you have a big box to shoot inside of. Try it. It works. Have someone shoot the gun from inside while you stand outside. Bet it will be pretty quiet. Let me know if you try it. Oh and whoever is doing the shooting from inside may want to wear some ear protection. Its loud inside.


                • Sounds interesting GunFun.

                  I have no room-connected breezeway, only a breezeway between the house and garage. The neighbor house is close, and they would definitely hear any outside shooting. No projectile firing device, even a slingshot is allowed in this small city.
                  So I need something to corral the sound at the source.

                  I do have 20+ acres some distance away, but would like to be able to sneak-shoot here at the house 😉

                  About the culvert wall – both single and double are available – see this quote:

                  “Pacific Corrugated Pipe has manufactured and supplied a complete line of corrugated metal and corrugated High Density Polyethylene (HDPE) pipe and fittings for decades. We manufacture both Type C (single wall with a corrugated interior) and Type S (double wall with a smooth interior) pipe in support of our StormTite® product line.

                  Sizes on the single wall pipe range from 3-inch to 24-inch. Further, our sizes on the double wall range from 4-inch to 60-inch (integral bell and spigot style) and 8-inch to 36-inch (plain end). Both solid and perforated pipe are available on all of our pipe.”

                  I have some of the ground rubber mulch material some use to create a quiet pellet trap, … I wonder if this stuff would make a good layer inside the culvert wall for sound absorption?

                  Ideally, one single wall (corrugated) culvert vs one double wall culvert might make an interesting test, to see if the sound dispersal/reduction would differ.

                  These mental experiments are kind of fun, but the results are questionable 🙂


                  • CBS
                    That’s what I shoot from. A breezeway from the house to the garage. It’s around 16 foot long and 8 feet wide. Really its a small sun room. It has 8 windows about 2 foot wide by 3 and a half high. They start about 2 foot off the floor. So real good for retaining sound if I keep the barrel inside.

                    And I think the corrugated pipe would probably be best.

                    But there is something else remember when you shoot through something like your talking about. Probably the pellet would move so fast it would be ahead of the turbulance from the air when the pellet leaves the barrel. The bigger the inside diameter is of the corrugated tube the better. But then again you get too big of diameter and it will have less chance of quieting the shot.

                    It’s all a balance to get the most out of it you want.


                  • How about this shooting tube? A smaller inner culvert, PERFORATED SINGLE WALL, 8 inch inside diameter. to sight/shoot through, outside diameter 9.4 inches,leaving about 4.5 inches between culverts ( 18 inches minus 9.4 inches divided by 2 sides) for shag carpet and whatever kind of sound insulation.

                    Sound might be “baffled” thru perforations before being dispersed/quieted by carpet, then by acoustic insulation, then passing through (and further dispersed by outer corrugated pipe wall. The corrugated outer wall has +/- 2x times the surface area for “radiating” the sound waves compared with a smooth wall. If double wall outer pipe is used, the sound waves remaining ( after passing thru the carpet and insulation,) to pass thru the outer culvert would have to pass thru both the smooth inner wall, and the twice as large(area-wise) outer wall. This would seemingly further reduce the sound energy. available to the surrounding atmosphere.

                    If further complication is attractive (!) the inner perforated culvert could be double wall as well! …and the outer double wall could be perforated as well.

                    If only the sound could be as baffled as I am! Sheesh 🙂

                    Comments welcome!

                    (The culvert dimensions I give here are available, per the Pacific Corrugated Pioe website.)



  2. G’day BB,
    What is wrong with a plastic Coke bottle….drinking end goes over barrel and a few shots give the exit hole. Attach with 100mph tape over barrel……and don’t forget to drink the Coke first
    Cheers Bob


  3. BB,

    Simple yet effective. As for practical, I can’t see shooting through 2 small windows being much fun. 🙁

    Like the tires, how effective would it be if 90% of each end of the box was removed? What if you shot through a piece of 12″ or 24″ PVC pipe that was about 3-4′ long? Would the noise be reduced at the shooting area,.. but still be loud directly downrange of the muzzle?

    Where was the phone positioned in relationship to the box?

    Chris



    • Chris,

      The PVC will only be effective if you supply baffles. This can be done with foam sections. Alternate a foam “washer” with a foam “liner” along the length of the PVC. The tires fastened together make awesome baffles.

      The “silencer” functions by two methods. It contains and directs the expanding gases and forces the gases to “work” to escape. The expanding gases, whether from the muzzle of a firearm or an air arm has “force” or “energy”. A properly designed silencer redirects and channels these gases in such a way as to use up the “energy” in these gases, slow down the expansion rate and allow them to escape out the end. This reduces the displacement rate of the air, reducing the “noise”.

      BB’s box contains the expanding gases, thus reducing the noise. If the box was lined with foam or insulation, it would work much better as the gases would have to “work” harder to reach the cardboard and cause it to vibrate, creating sound.


      • RR,

        That is pretty much my understanding as well. Like the M-rod in which the blast sees an open area at the muzzle end,.. the air/energy is redirected back into the shroud,… as the pellet exits through a small hole into a series of baffles before leaving the end. The RW is similar, kind of.

        I suppose that something that is wide open at each end would do quite a bit to reduce (near/to the side) noise,… but it would not do much for noise downrange.

        A fellow I worked with shot his high powered powder burners in his basement (like 20-25′), for testing hand loads over a chrony. He had a homemade trap of 3/4″ plate and made his own moderators. Not sure if he used anything like this in addition though. He passed away a few years ago. His favorite thing to start with was a 3,4-5 D-cell Maglite tube.

        Chris


        • Chris,

          Unless there is something to absorb and / or redirect the energy, the noise level will not be reduced. Yes, the PVC will help some to the sides, but once the gases leave the end of the PVC they will disperse in all directions, making sound. Baffling is important. The energy must be redirected and absorbed in some manner.

          BB’s box is effective because he has a small hole for the gases to escape through and a large volume for them to expand in. If he lines the box with insulation or foam, this will absorb some more of the energy and reduce the box vibration, thereby reducing the sound more.


        • Chris USA,

          ” …but it would not do much for noise downrange.” Okay the SOUND is what your ears hear because the actual Physical pressure wave striking your eardrum and to a lesser degree your head generally. Down range regardless of the box the pressure wave is reduced by the square of the distance since the pressure wave becomes omnidirectional as soon as it leaves the containment of the barrel, Silencer, or the electric bicycle box if Tom has the barrel inside of it. (Someone will point out muzzle brakes but then it becomes omnidirectional once the pressure exits the brake.) There is no such thing as sound until something with a pressure detection system like an ear, auditory nerve and some minimal brain reacts to a simple change in pressure. Remember sound drops off mathematically with distance but you already know that from life experience. The box just reduces that pressure wave before it gets to straightline to your ear and make you hear SOUND.

          shootski


      • Dave,

        Good description. Especially good point about decibels being a logarithmic scale. Generally, when we talk about sound levels it is in between 0 and 130 decibels. But the actual range in energy levels is immense.

        I have some training and practical experience with acoustic performance in building design. A few guidelines we work with:

        1. If you want to control sound transmission, there are two main issues to deal with. First, is reverberation inside a space. This is simply the “echo” off surfaces, but it contributes to a perception of loudness. It is measured in time, not decibels. Usually, it is high frequency sounds that need to be controlled. This would include the “crack” of an airgun firing. This is why firing it inside a garage, compared to outside, seems louder. Need to quiet it down? Soft porous materials like foam are good at attenuating those high frequency sounds. Attenuation is measured in “Sabines”, named after a music teacher who tried putting cushions in chairs in a band hall and measuring the change.

        2. Second, is sound transmission THROUGH a wall. This is completely separate from reverberation. But it has implications for airguns too. Here the problem tends to be LOW frequency sounds. It simply takes more to stop the (higher energy) of low frequency sound waves. This is why when we hear people talkimg on the other side of the wall, it is harder to hear the “s” or “t” or “ch” sounds. They are higher pitch and more easily stopped. The best way to reduce sound transmission THROUGH something is to add mass. It simply absorbs the energy. Foam and batt insulation do little for this type of transmission, contrary to conventional thinking. The other thing you can do is separate materials so they don’t touch,, so the energy won’t ransmit through the whole assembly.. For airguns, I see low frequency sounds as less of an issue. Shooting your Talon SS? Well, you might get a deeper “boom” from the airblast. Hard to add mass to a suppressor, practically speaking. But the baffles is next best by separating materials..

        3. What’s the last big way to reduce sound? Increase distance from the source and the listener. The way the equations work, it is an exponential relationship. For every doubling of the distance, you get a SQUARE of energy reduction. Thats a big difference.

        StarboardRower


      • Chris: I think you are on the right track. It would seem to me that numerous vertical walls (baffles) inside the box would do more than insulation. As the projectile and the accompanying air blast went through a series of baffles, the air pressure wave would be dissipated sequentially as it tried to pass through the projectile passageway. I suspect there would be a sequential pressure drop as the succeeding walls/baffles were passed by the pellet. If this would work, then a very cheap large scale silencing tunnel could be constructed with corrugated board (wrongly called “cardboard”) and tape.

        Some seat of the pants engineering could determine the diameter of the shooting passage, the number of baffles and the size of the containing box. I suspect that the number of baffles and the volume within each baffle chamber would determine how long the box would need to be. That’s a simple home experiment worthy of a trial in my basement 10M range, particularly after lubing my break barrels – they tend to do some “barking” for a few rounds as they throw off the RWS Air Chamber lube they don’t “want.”


        • LFranke,

          Well, I learned a lot about sound, measurements and so on. I do think however,.. that if I had to go to all that trouble to shoot,.. I would not be shooting. If you were shooting a scoped rifle, the hole through the box would have to be decent size (8-12″). Maybe for a fixed distance basement range it would be do-able without much hassle.

          Chris


          • Chris,

            Think of BB’s Maryland range example. The shooting hole would be 16 inches maybe. The tires create the baffles to catch the muzzle blast.

            As for a scoped rifle, you could make the “shooting slot” about 3 inches wide and about 8 inches high. This will allow plenty of sight picture and some movement.

            BB’s box is for the backyard. He is not going to stick it on the end of his rifle when he goes squirrel hunting.


  4. I seem to recall Gerald Cardew making a silencer from a length of carpet rolled up, with a circular wooden disc at each end, and possibly one or two inside to help it keep its shape, for use in his workshop/laboratory/(garden shed?).

    Probably about 12-18 inches in diameter and 3-4 feet long?

    I’m not sure if he was shooting through it and then just through a chrono at short range, or had it set up at a firing point of a longer range and was able to sight through it.

    Iain


    • Iain,

      This would work well. The carpet would absorb a lot of the force of the expanding gases and the wooden discs would act as baffles to slow down the gases before they exit.



  5. BB,

    Take some of that soft foam like you packed the Diana 50 with and line your box. The more, the better. It will be much more backyard friendly. It will also be much more fun than messing with that spun fiberglass.

    I second Yogi’s idea of a series of sound attenuation reports.



    • BB,

      Anything that will allow the gases to disperse through them and absorb the energy (pressure).

      If you lined the box with foam and made insertable baffles from sections of cardboard to redirect the gases away from the exit…


  6. The “end grain” of correlated box cardboard makes a good sound trap as it absorbs the wave rather than allowing it to reflect.

    I made an anehcoic chamber for my friend’s indoor shooting range by cutting one foot wide strips from correlated cardboard boxes with a table saw and gluing them up into a 4x4x1 foot block. Four of the blocks were arranged as a “window” to shoot through and a smaller version was used down range at the target box.

    The cardboard was free for the asking at a local appliance store and it didn’t take long to glue up the blocks. Turned out to be a quick project that worked pretty well.

    Hank


  7. As BES said above use anechoic foam. It is not overly expensive if you shop around. I haven’t tried it for a pellet gun but think it should work very well in absorbing the sound waves, that is what it is made for.

    So what is the law on an airgun homemade silencer that will self destruct on a firearm or ? There are many airgun silencers for sale are they in a gray area?

    Don


    • It’s against the law. It’s that one shot that is suppressed, it does not matter if the device is destroyed.
      Firearms and airguns right now are not the same thing legally speaking in many states, even tho 30 ft/lbs of energy is the same whether comes from one or the other. I have never understood why silencers are are so regulated. I think a more relevent issue is armor penetration ability. Lead doesn’t.
      R


      • 1stblue: It’s probably a residual of the gangster flicks of the Noir films. Society has in its head that the silencers make the report stop. That’s patently ludicrous, but belief trumps reality – particularly in the emotional overload of firearms.

        As I understand it, in Europe, what we call silencers are mufflers to protect the hearing of the shooter and no big deal. Of course in those civilized countries not every yahoo can go purchase arms, and there are severe penalties for misuse.

        What we are discussing isn’t, I don’t imagine, a “silencer” as it is not attached to the arm. There is no way that a attenuating box could be carried on a clandestined assault – well, except against really, really stupid victims.

        I think that the next time I order pellets from P/A, I’m saving the myriad of foam squares, they would be ideal baffle material AND they come with a precise hole cut through them in two sizes!


        • LFranke,

          In the movie Pulp Fiction,… Bruce Willis plugs John Travolta with a few (very quite) rounds. That’s all the convincing I needed! 😉

          LOL! 🙂 Chris


  8. OK; that suppressor for a self propelled gun is way cool!
    Be it sound power or the power associated with RF energy, every addition of 3 dB is a doubling of power, and a 10 dB increase is an increase by a factor of ten, as “decibel” (dB) is a logarithmic scale; this sums it up nicely:
    http://www.sounddeadsteel.com/what-is-a-decibel.html
    And we just went through our yearly OSHA-mandated briefing on hearing protection:
    https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/noisehearingconservation/loud.html
    “Outside the box the .22 CB cap registered 88.2 decibels peak volume (lower right number).
    When the muzzle was halfway inside the box the sound dropped to 80.5 dB.”
    Excellent! That is a truly worthwhile and useful reduction in sound power, down to a safer level. =>


  9. B.B.,
    Question, Is making a homemade silencer “legal” for an air gun (I realize all states have different laws, I mean in general).
    I have some CBs/subs ranging from 29 gr 420 fps, 29 gr 590 fps, 29 gr 710 fps to 40gr 710 fps (CCI Quite). The two slowest are much more quite in my rifles than my C02 pellet pistols. And yes, like firearms, adding barrel length does seem to hush the noise down.

    Doc



    • Dave,
      Thanks for the links. Kind of a grey area that.
      “Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be firearm silencers by nature of their design and function. Because silencers are NFA weapons, an individual wishing to manufacture or transfer such a silencer must receive prior approval from ATF and pay the required tax”.
      Hmm, well a 2 liter bottle on a air rifle could be used on a 22 rimfire. So could a car/truck oil filter. so….

      Doc


    • Thedavemyster,

      Every time i read that BATF Opinion i think about the cost of the lawyer to show that no INTENT to build/posess a firearm suppressor was involved…. I also think about folks that don’t realize that the States in the USA have Laws and prisons too! So if you have one you need to write down your intent for this device to ONLY be for airgun use, date it and have it witnessed and notarized by a Notary. Also having the device marked as only being for airgun use would also help. Having a paper trail is half the battle in our system of laws in the USA. Regardless of the outcome it is going to cost you! The off weapon device, and similar concepts, that this blog of Tom’s is about as is the device that is being used to attenuate the shock wave from the self propelled gun are not a firearm suppressor but a structural sound attenuation system…just like a hush house to keep the sounds of the city out of your living quarters!

      NONE OF THE ADVICE ABOVE IS TO BE CONSIDERED PRO BONO OR COMPENSATED LEGAL ADVICE!

      shootski


      • Strange as this may sound, yesterday (Tuesday) I started getting my ducks in a row so to speak, in order to file a form 1 with the ATF to request permission to manufacture a suppressor for all legal purposes.

        Legally I have been advised not to purchase or possess any parts until the form has been approved, and the tax paid.

        But for airgun builders something that MAY help provide AIRGUN intent only is the thread pitch where the suppressor attaches to the rifle.

        Airguns tend to use. 1/2×20 threading.
        small caliber cartridge rifles tend to use 1/2×28 threading.
        And .30 caliber cartridge guns tend to use still a different threading.

        Maybe having 1/2×20 threading on the device MAY help keep you out of the hot seat.


        • 45Bravo,

          It sounds good on the thread size choice as long as you document your choice of thread size as being for the purpose of keeping it to typical Airgun standards. I thought about going the route you are getting ready to go down and then decided not to on the basis that you will have a legal Class III device more controlled then the firearm it is typically attached to! I thought long and hard about the issue until i read:

          https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/26/20828900/silencer-suppressor-online-sales-gun-accesories-atf-rules

          That’s when i decided to just buy from an airgun specific suppressor manufacturer because it shows my absolute intent. I also include screen shots of posts like this in a file to repeat my intent to never use anything but a legally (by current Law and legal opinion of the BATF,) made FIREARM Suppressor on any firearm. Why would i want to buy or build something that State and Federal laws make me treat as a Class III device when the flashing blue lights comes on? What does the airgun become when your legally made or purchased Firearm Suppressor is attached to it. I haven’t found a determination or Court Rulling in any Case Law to clarify that and i sure as heck don’t want to pay the bill to make it!

          My opinion; think about it before you proceed.

          shootski


          • I was looking at Weirauch 97 offerings at Airguns of Arizona and that firm offered, for about another hundred bucks, a Weirauch suppressor that is specifically threaded for their rifle. While I avoided purchase due to the cost from ANY vendor, a residual question arose: “If the suppressor is specifically offered by the manufacturer for that air rifle, what are the legal ramifications of said purchase of the suppressor at the time when the arm itself is purchased? If it is a unit, like the Trevox pistol by Umarex or other built in shroud/suppressors, could it be considered a legal add on?” Unlike the Trevox, of course, the suppressor is patently an add on and not of a single piece as is that pistol.

            Interestingly, AoA’s website is completely mum about this issue. That causes me some degree of caution. While I doubt that the BATF would be pounding on my door and racing down the stairs to my basement range for an airgun silencer (that’s what it is), I am also mindful that when things are bought electronically there is an inevitable “paper trail.”

            I agree that one does NOT want to be the test case by some zealous BATF prosecutor in his/her quest for bureaucratic glory. I passed on the whole thing, but still wonder about the sale of a manufacturer-specific suppressor openly done.

            Anyone have any comment about this kind of a sales promotion? It seems a tad dubious to me!


            • LFranke,

              Unfortunately on this blog reactions to a days late post are infrequently done. I’m responding because your reply to me triggers an email notification. You could copy and move your post to today’s blog and you may draw some reactions to your conundrum.

              shootski



    • Quote from Doc:
      “According to the ATF, it is only legal if the silencer you make for your airgun cannot be used on a firearm:”

      So a bench rest silencing tunnel, into which you could stick the muzzle of either an airgun or a firearm, would have them scratching their heads? …or would it have them hunting yours?

      Note that the tunnel would not be “attached” to either gun 🙂


  10. Hello All,

    As I mentioned it the last time I commented here, and a number of you very graciously offered your wonderful moral support, here is a brief update on my mother and small family COVID-19-wise.

    My mom is home presently, but honestly, I do not expect her to ever really recover. Her breathing is VERY weak, to the point she can use her walker for no more than five or so feet without stopping and trying to catch her breath. So she is able to move from her chair (which since last week she lives in 24/7) to the bathroom 15 feet away and back, but only with my or my wife’s help, and she must take breathing breaks multiple times as she does so. She does not have enough breath to complete a full sentence, even at a whisper. My wife and I seem over both of our bouts of COVID, but I believe this bout of COVID symptoms (my mom’s second) will take my mom from us, sooner or later. Every time she nods off in her chair, we look to see if she is still breathing.

    I’m grateful my wife seems totally recovered, but I believe I have suffered permanent lung and heart damage. Just taking the garbage out leaves me profoundly out of breath and with mild angina. (And before my COVID adventure I could hold my breath for over 3 minutes!)

    Again, your words of support were most gracious, and I am grateful for them. They do indeed make a difference.

    Michael


    • Michael,

      Thanks for the update. I have been wondering. Continued best wishes and prayers for your entire family.

      These ongoing/lingering/lasting effects seem to be coming to light more often, but not something I have heard much about lately. I am sure we will eventually.

      Chris


      • Chris,

        People like my mother and I are now called “long haulers.” We both went a long time with no symptoms after we first suffered from it in the Spring. But the second wave was worse than the first for both of us. My wife had a shorter but more difficult bout of symptoms. The strangest part is how the symptoms change over time. This is an odd disease.

        Michael


        • Michael,

          Oddly,… after I wrote that,… it was common mention on the news that day,.. and today. At the least,… it is beginning to get mentioned as an added potential aftereffect.

          Chris


    • Michael,

      Thanks for the update. So sorry about your mom. I hope you and her get better.

      We are still fighting over masks around here but it is getting better as more folks are taking it seriously. Last time I went to the hardware store 95% were wearing masks but quite a few wernt wearing them correctly. We only go out as necessary maybe once or twice a week for supplies. We have as much stuff delivered as we can.

      Don


    • Michael,

      Great news hopefully it will be even better news in a few weeks. No supplemental Oxygen for your mom to improve her perfusion?
      The CDC is just beginning to report on the Myocarditis associated with COVID19. I hope in your case it is just deconditioning from the time spent on the sofa as the infection ran its course.

      shootski


      • shootski,

        Oxygen applied by a cannula helped quite a bit, as did prone positioning. We also have a CPAP, which can be used almost like a crude rebreather.

        And I do believe I have Myocarditis and perhaps Pericarditis as well, but only a hospital-grade EKG read by a cardiologist will inform me, eventually, as right now no doctors are seeing people unless it is an absolute emergency. The angina is not as frequent as the breathlessness. Just going to the mailbox and back puts me on the sofa for a half hour or so.

        Imagine for a minute that you can inhale as deeply as possible, but the air never satisfies that need for oxygen.

        Michael


        • Michael,

          Do you have a Pulse Oximeter? It will give you the person on who’s finger it is placed ther blood oxygen percentage along with the pulse rate. Recording those numbers to obtain a baseline average over a week and then on some regular time schedule will provide a doctor or ER with very valuable information. Low O2 Perfusion (blood Oxygen percentage) is a key indicator for when it is time to get to the ER regardless of symptoms.

          Best wishes,

          shootski


          • shootski,

            I imagine I’m in the low 90s and will not improve, ever, due to likely fibrosis (scarring) in my lungs. My wife seems to breathe normally, thank goodness. Back when all three of us were sick at once, she had the worst symptoms, but she seems unscathed now. Of course, she could get it again. Even if antibody immunity exists, it seems not to last more than a few months for those who beat COVID. Research regarding re-infection is so far not extensive or definitive.

            My mom can’t move more than a five or six feet without becoming breathless almost to the point of dropping to the floor. Therefore, her perfusion is probably 80 or lower, perhaps much lower. She has had a DNR and no-intubation order in her living will for decades. She is 81 and has myriad co-morbidity factors.

            Michael


          • shootski,

            I should add that my pulmonary and circulatory issues from COVID are such that if they do not both improve at least a bit, I doubt I will be able to shoot air guns anymore beyond airsoft spring pistols indoors. I just wouldn’t have it in me to walk around my backyard anymore unless I recover some. Walking to the target in my basement 10 meter and 15 yard ranges might be unrealistic, too. Dunno.

            I still enjoy reading, writing, playing guitar and watching movies. :^)

            Michael

            An addendum: I do have a lot of weight to lose. If I were to lose a lot, it could reduce the effects of the lung and heart damage, albeit not the damage itself.


            • Michael,

              While it IS you, and not me,… to make any (definitive) statements about your long term prognosis,… you would need proper medical evaluation,… no?

              Chris


              • Chris,

                You are absolutely correct. Eventually I will get an EKG and meet with a cardiologist. I will also go to a pulmonologist. At the lung doctor’s office they have an impressive assortment of testing machines. I did all that once 10 or more years ago for something that ended up being nothing. The battery took about an hour to go through.

                I guess I am expecting the worst so that if it is any less bad, I’ll be relieved, but if it’s bad, my reaction will be a shrug of the shoulders. Right now I couldn’t plink at cans in my backyard if I had to hoist and cock an air rifle. And I couldn’t go out and pick up the aluminum cans after, either.

                After one has been sick for a while, he or she forgets what it was like not to be sick. I can’t fully, vividly remember what it was like not to have this. I guess it goes without saying that depression is yet another symptom of COVID-19. ;^) The virus almost always gets in the afflicted’s brain, which is why I have long-term (but at least not short-term) memory loss, balance issues, coordination problems, taste and smell loss/alteration, muscular weakness, exceptionally strange dreams and so on.

                Here’s an example of the memory loss that is typical:

                Me: “The landscaper was out back this morning with a, a, um, it’s a machine people use to cut grass.”

                My wife: “A lawnmower.”

                Me: “Right. #@%& COVID.”

                I have six or seven of those conversations a day. The ol’ Intelligence Quotient sure isn’t in the 150s or 160s anymore! LOL

                Michael




    • Michael

      When lots of people pray for one thing it is powerful. You, your mom and wife have mine. God wants us to pray and I believe God especially wants groups to pray for one outcome. I have experienced it more than once!

      Deck


    • Michael,

      Praying for your Mom and the rest of your family to recover fully from this disease. My Father has come home and reports that at 82 he is able to accomplish only 70% of what he could do before.

      Siraniko


      • Siraniko,

        I have occasionally thought of you and your family suffering as we are. I am both saddened by your father’s condition but impressed he is at 70% at the age of 82. I’m only 57, but I can do, well, perhaps 70% of what I could do before. I certainly couldn’t walk 100 meters or probably even 70 meters in my current state.

        Be Well,

        Michael


        • Michael,

          We all struggle with this disease in our own way. I can’t even hug my wife as that she is immunocompromised. I risk reinfecting her as that I work at the hospital. We can’t take the chance that I would be the vector of her infection. So far we have dodged the bullet of any symptoms showing up. I take all precautions when I come home but still we can’t be together physically. My Father came home with a lot of additional medications for the heart probably because of the increased incidence of complications after a COVID-19 infection.

          I hope you’re family’s health continues to improve.

          Siraniko



  11. B.B. and Readership,

    The central Philippines has suffered a magnitude 6.6 earthquake. Early reporting is a low number of injured and only one death. Im sure the damage combined with COVID19 is going to increase everyone’s distress.

    I hope and pray our friend Siraniko and his family is not effected by this latest catastrophe.

    shootski


    • Shootski,

      We are having an apocalyptic series of wildfires in northern California. The sky is red and ash is falling constantly. We have had over a week of temps over 100 degrees. Death Valley hit 130 degrees Fahrenheit. Areas are burning that burn regularly but now are an order of magnitude worse with the hamper of the pandemic. Lightning strikes have hit all over the state. Thankfully so far most of the fires are not near high populations. We are safe at home, but there are many that are in danger. Hopefully it will cool down soon.

      It seems that fires, floods, or earthquakes combined with the pandemic and are catastrophic for so many.

      Stay safe,
      Don


      • Benji-Don,

        “It seems that fires, floods, or earthquakes combined with the pandemic and are catastrophic for so many.”

        I hope you are one of the folks who work with neighbors on their fire abatement perimiters. My son and his family live in a dessert state to your East and he has convinced all the neighborhood to work on keeping each other safe from the wildfires and the not so wild ones. They were convinced the local Fire department could keep them safe…until a wildfire streaked toward their neighborhood and they realized the BIG “garden hose” of the local Firefighters was just not cutting it. The wind changed at daybreak to up the mountain and that saved their homes and perhaps lives. They have now taken on the hard job of wildfire mitigation cleanup on the ground and are taking the utilities to the Mat on poor maintenance practices and right of way maintenance.

        I hope and pray you get cooling rains without the Hot Bolts, Rumbles of Thunder, and bright flashes of light. And if needed the change in wind direction at just the right time! I know my son’s family thought that many prayers were answered early that day!

        Every decision is a RISK.
        Every risk is a DECISION.

        Shootski


        • Shootski,

          I agree on the clearing and abatement work. Many of our forests have been mismanaged for years. Many of the fires today are not in our forests but in areas that burn naturally. Oak savanna, chaparral and other areas that have become catastrophic with climate change.

          I spend much oh my time at my cabin doing fire abatement. That area is in a different area. Partly sage and juniper, south slopes, and ponderosa pine and white fir on the north slopes and ridge tops. There is no sign of fires previously around our cabin. With all the dead trees it is ripe for a fire. Last year Kate and I took down at least 20 dead fir and pines down hill and around our cabin. Even with all the work we have done our cabin will not survive a fire. The fires are getting worse partly due to management but also partly due to climate change. A high school buddy of mine was in charge of removing beetle kill trees in southern California 15 or 20 years ago. They spent 155 million or more ,it helped but now needs it again. Some areas prone to fire and flood just should not be built in.

          The night before the Oakland Hills fire, early 1990’s the community got together to decide what to do with all the chaparral around their houses. They could not get a consensus, at that point it was too late anyway they burned up the next day. They could have done something.

          My plan this year was to build a fire escape structure out of a storage container at the cabin but covid put a damper on that. Maybe next year. Our only escape is one way in going down hill. We may be able to out run the fire with the dozer going up over the mountain but that would be iffy. In some areas fire abatement is just not enough. Glad your son is working on it wi the neighbors. My neighbors are 1/4 mile apart in rugged country and are very independent. I am on the road maintenance board and it is always a fight to get stuff done.

          Don


          • Benji-Don,

            “My plan this year was to build a fire escape structure out of a storage container at the cabin but covid put a damper on that.” How do you plan to keep breathable Oxygen above the 14% minimum that we humans need to survive. If it is just a flashover you will be okay for some amount of time but if it burns for longer you will have no Oxygen but almost nothing but Nitrogen, Carbon Monoxide and perhaps some CO2 to breath. I have a number of cylinders and regulators in the Ski Shack and also carry the Rescue Buddy bottles in vehicles in fire country: https://www.battlbox.com/products/space-air-personal-breathing-apparatus-tank
            I subscribe to the 3,3,3 Rule. Three minutes without Oxygen, three days without water, and three weeks without food. There is one more that can kill or disable you and that is sleep Deprivation; about three days is enough to cause halucinations (don’t ask how I know that) and the longest recorded is about 264 hours. So far I know of no test group study has been tested in a lab on Sleep Deprivation and the actual time to death reported to the public.
            Yes a fire shelter is a way good idea with only one road out…the dozer sounds like a wild ride out…don’t forget some Spare Air for that trip.

            Hope you never need to use it!

            shootski


            • You are absolutely correct. I am on top of a ridge. Hopefully the oxygen in the container and the high winds from the fire will be enough to provide oxygen. The main flash should not last more than an hour. Folks have survived in a swimming pool in similar situations so I figure it is a good gamble. I think the key is filtering the air and insulating from the heat. A few feet of earth should take care of that. And a baffle concrete entrance should easily handle the heat with a 100 ft clearance around the container. I think the smoke is more of an issue than the oxygen. Before I start construction I will do more calculations.

              Don



              • Don,

                Interesting that you would escape to the wild wilderness,.. only to have to cut down any and all brush within 100+ yards of your cabin. Do I go up the hill?,… or down? to escape the oncoming flame onslaught? Bunker? Air supply? How deep? What will do?

                I am not saying that it is good or bad,… I just find it interesting to what extreme people will go to. Just a casual observation.

                Chris


                • Chris,

                  You make a good point. I have always thought of it as my little spot in paradise. In trying to live in nature, I find myself changing it to meet my desires. After a few days up there I do find myself rejuvenated. I will have to think about your observation.

                  Other than a couple of live trees next to the cabin. All the other trees are bark beetle killed and become a hazard. During a drought or hot and drier summers the trees especially the white fir become susceptible to the beetles. We will probably loose quite a few more this year. The property was logged before we got it. As it ages to a more mature forest the fire danger will be reduced a fair amount.

                  Don


                  • Don,

                    Yea,.. I don’t know either. It is what it is. None the less,.. if fires are a very real concern,.. then you have every reason to abate that risk for your property and life. Nobody wants to give up on something that they have poured their heart and soul into. Nobody really wants to move if they are quite content with where they are. We can all relate to the money pit syndrome at some time in our life,… be it a car, house, air guns, etc.. Women?,…. LOL! 😉

                    Sometimes it is good to just step back and have a new look around.

                    Chris



        • WD,

          Good advice, best keep a generator handy also. Last year we had many friends devastated by the fires. Some lost their homes but they survived. Others did not survive. But nothing compared to covid.

          Don


          • Don,

            I do need a new generator. My deepest condolences for your friends’ loss of property and life. These are increasingly uncertain times we are living in, but we shall adapt and persevere.

            WD



          • shootski,

            Yes you’re right, in the worst case it would be far from adequate. I meant just to deal with the smoke infiltrating indoors from neighboring fires. By air purifier I meant an air circulating device with a HEPA filter.

            WD


    • Shootski,

      Thanks for your concern, but we were not affected. Fortunately we are not anywhere near the epicenter. Fortunately only 1 reported dead and dozens injured. People with COVID-19 were affected well as that the sports complex being used as a quarantine center was damaged as well as the local hospital.

      Siraniko


      • Siraniko,

        When I first heard, I thought about how the Philippines are one of the world’s largest (perhaps the largest) archipelagoes, and one terrifying word entered my mind: Tsunami. I am glad to hear you were/are safe.

        Michael


  12. August 24, 2020 at 10:18 am

    I was looking at Weirauch 97 offerings at Airguns of Arizona and that firm offered, for about another hundred bucks, a Weirauch suppressor that is specifically threaded for their rifle. While I avoided purchase due to the cost from ANY vendor, a residual question arose: “If the suppressor is specifically offered by the manufacturer for that air rifle, what are the legal ramifications of said purchase of the suppressor at the time when the arm itself is purchased? If it is a unit, like the Trevox pistol by Umarex or other built in shroud/suppressors, could it be considered a legal add on?” Unlike the Trevox, of course, the suppressor is patently an add on and not of a single piece as is that pistol.

    Interestingly, AoA’s website is completely mum about this issue. That causes me some degree of caution. While I doubt that the BATF would be pounding on my door and racing down the stairs to my basement range for an airgun silencer (that’s what it is), I am also mindful that when things are bought electronically there is an inevitable “paper trail.”

    I agree that one does NOT want to be the test case by some zealous BATF prosecutor in his/her quest for bureaucratic glory. I passed on the whole thing, but still wonder about the sale of a manufacturer-specific suppressor openly done.

    Anyone have any comment about this kind of a sales promotion? It seems a tad dubious to me!


    • Franke,

      Since this post was moved from a previous blog,… there was a fair bit of good comment on the topic already. More comment is always good, so don’t get me wrong.

      I think the now rather wide availability of suppressors for air guns speaks (volumes) in and of it self. Not only after market, but from the actual makers and retailers delivering an entire package. Read between the lines,.. if you will. Or,…. look closer at what is not said,… vs what is said. Of course,… interpret at your own risk.

      I think the BATF see’s it for what it is in regards to (our air guns). Of course that is what it is,… or rather what it is not,……… nothing exempting our sport. Yet,… we have the entire Euro market that fully embraces them.

      Thugs and gang bangers doing drive by’s can get whatever they want. From what I have seen reported about the elevated number of shootings across the country in certain cities,….. they want to be seen and heard. Spreading fear and anarchy is their only goal. BLM, statues, police or the latest shooting is all they need to get rolling with elevated violence. Then again,…. no reason at all works too. Lack of police support and leadership in some cities is like opening all the cages of the zoo. Lions and Tigers and Bears,… OH MY!

      Uh,.. errr,.. mmmm,… Sorry,… got a bit off topic there. 🙁

      They are nice and do quiet things down a lot. Many debates rage on as to which is the best.

      Chris


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