The artillery hold lets the rifle move while you (the gun carriage) stay still.
This report covers:
- Doc Beeman and the C1
- How bad?
- Live and learn
- It’s difficult
- Back to RidgeRunner
- What I do
- What works best
- Sometimes
First let me define what the artillery hold is. It’s a name I made up years ago to describe two things that are often very important to accuracy when shooting recoiling arms — both airguns and firearms. Those two things are a repeatable consistent hold and follow-through. I did not invent either thing. They were in practice well over a century before I put the name on them. The reason I gave them a name was so I could write about them. Calling them “a repeatable consistent hold and follow-through” is just too many words to write multiple times in an article. Also, by giving them a name, I got people to start thinking about them.
Of course there were people already thinking about both things long before I came up with the name. We call those people champions. They knew the importance of both things to accuracy. And don’t kid yourself — the artillery hold works for firearms just as it does for airguns.
But do you ALWAYS need to use the artillery hold to be accurate? No! That’s part of what I want to talk about today.
Doc Beeman and the C1
For me this began with the Beeman C1. It was shooting groups at 10 meters that were of a certain size — let’s say around a half-inch between the centers of the two widest shots in a 10-shot group. I wanted to do better. I read the Beeman catalog that a firm hold was necessary to shooting a good group. I was already doing that; was this as good as the C1 got?
The Beeman-C1 was the air rifle that prompted me to give the name to the artillery hold.
How bad?
I wondered how bad the groups would get if I held the rifle as lightly as possible and let it recoil as much as it wanted. So I tried it. To my surprise, the 10-shot groups shrank to around 0.10-inches or less between centers. Some might have been a little larger, but I remember that most were about that size.
I was flabbergasted, so I wrote a letter to Doctor Beeman and told him about my discovery. The letter probably got lost in the shuffle because I never heard from him on that subject. But I wrote about it in The Airgun Letter. And it worked — most of the time.
Live and learn
But in the 30 years since that time I have observed that not all spring guns need to be held this way. I just did a report on the HW 97K where the rifle did just as well resting directly on the sandbag as it did when held with the artillery hold. If that’s the case I’m going to rest it directly on the bag because that is much easier.
On the other hand, reader RidgeRunner, the Gamo Bone Collector Swarm Gen3i does not like to be rested directly on a sandbag. Your report yesterday is proof of that. You didn’t mention how far you were from the targets but in Part 4 of my test with the same rifle I was 25 yards from the target. I kinda think you were at the same distance, but I’m not sure.
You DO know the definition of insanity, right? — Keep trying the same thing, hoping for different results.
It’s difficult
The artillery hold is difficult. I’ve been doing it for 30 years and I still have to stop and think it through each time I do it. If any other method works I’m going to do that first. That’s why I was so happy to learn that the HW 97K can be rested directly on a sandbag.
But sometimes you have to bite the bullet and do the work if you want the results. Let’s talk about the results.
Back to RidgeRunner
Going back to RidgeRunner’s report on the Gamo Bone Collector, the rifle wasn’t that accurate for me WITH the artillery hold. And without it? Well, yesterday’s report showed us that. The point is — no matter what you do to a cheap sedan you’ll never turn it into a Corvette. A Chinese B3-1 can be custom tuned all day long; it will never become a TX200 Mark III.
What I do
What I try to do for you guys in this blog is test airguns in a reasonably consistent way so you will have some idea of what to expect when you open the box. Of course shooting at paper targets is not the same as taking the airgun hunting, but all I’m trying to do is show you what you will be getting. It’s up to you to make it work.
What works best
The artillery hold is used to null out the effects of movement during the shot cycle before the pellet leaves the barrel. It is most needed with a spring-piston airgun and least needed with a CO2 or pneumatic. That’s why some shooters like precharged pneumatics and others like Yogi prefer springers.
Sometimes
Sometimes though, things just don’t work. When that happens all the technique in the world doesn’t help. Kenny Rogers said it best in The Gambler — Know when to walk away and know when to run.
B.B.
When I shoot standing unsupported, my fore end hand is a flat palm. However, I believe gas ram guns like a firm hold. Very different shooting.
-Yogi
“Know when to walk away and know when to run.”
BB,
Great stuff! I love that old Kenny Rodgers song. 🙂
While I have had to resort to using the artillery hold on some higher-powered springers, I’ve been surprised that some of the lower-powered ones require it as well. Both of the Haenel model 1 rifles I got from Frank B require the use of the artillery hold to get good accuracy. Besides the light hold, they both also respond best to me laying the forearm on the root of my index finger, while curling my thumb and middle finger into a “U” that barely touches the stock and aligns with the two front screws which hold the action into the stock.
I was quite surprised that a sub-5 fpe rifle required the artillery hold, yet they both respond to it well. 🙂
Blessings to you,
dave
BB, I hope you are recovering well from your recent operation.
Regarding the illustration at the start of this blog, I believe it requires a slight makeover to make it more understandable; because to me it just looks like an illustration of recoiling versus recoilless pieces. Or even just a recoilless gun.
This doesn’t seem relevant to me.
This is not a subject I understand but will nevertheless make a couple of observations.
My brilliant HW95 (I have mentioned it in many previous comments) will not group any better than RR’s gun when rested and I have tried many different support positions. Shooting off-hand, even when getting a steady hold is not happening produces tighter groups.
Regarding rimfires; I cannot recall (I only rest a rifle when sighting in) ever seeing resting the piece has being a problem to producing tight groups.
Just to cloud the issue further; I visit some clubs where the elderly members, much to my annoyance, shot sitting down with their rifles (often springers) rested and it doesn’t seem to matter.
Best wishes.
Thanks for the well done article. For me, learning the artillery hold took some time and trial and error. But once I got the feel for it, my shooting results improved a lot. I usually shoot from a bench and rest the rifle forearm on my off hand, which is resting on a bag or support. I have found that finding the approximate balance point of the rifle and resting it near that point usually works best for me. Also, I try to arrange it so that when I have the sights aimed at the target that the rifle will just stay on target if I totally relax all my muscles. Then focus on squeezing the trigger straight back so that the shot and the follow through stay on target.
I do not doubt the “artillery hold” can improve a gun’s precision, similarly to what choking a barrel may do. However, at least for me, I’ve found that going from a sand bag or gun rested scenario to the artillery hold introduces additional “shake” which I can only conclude increases group size. One of the most precise experiences I ever had shooting was clamping a Gamo “Big Cat” spring piston gun in a gun vise. To my amazement this combination would consistently put a pellet into a 1/4″ group at 20 yards. It was my first experience with spring guns around 20 years ago and I don’t even remember what pellet I used. The odd thing was, as soon as I removed the gun from the clamp the groups opened up to greater than 1″ at the same distance when just directly rested on sand bags. In addition, other guns I tried to clamp would not group very well at all. The takeaway for me is that guns *can* be sensitive so if you’re going to be mixing-and-matching the resting style each rest type should also be tested so the profile of the gun can be quantified under these conditions. Isn’t it sooooo nice when a gun isn’t projectile or rest picky? Which brings up a good point that maybe having a gun that doesn’t shoot tight groups but can do acceptable groups reliably under different projectile selections and resting conditions may be a better option than the gun that can do unusually tight groups under a one-projectile and one rest condition which might not always be available. Making sure the shooter(s) understand this adds another layer of unpredictability and responsibility as well of course.
AGA,
I understand your frustration with the artillery hold. Several people have advised me to use a vise to hold the airgun when I test airguns, but when the AirForce Edge was being developed I shot alongside John McCaslin. His Edge was clamped in a vise and I shot mine with the rifle rested. My groups were just as small as his. So from my experience the vise does not decrease group size. It does make it easier and faster to load and shoot, but that’s all. Of course the Edge is a POCP and it’s springers and firearms that need to artillery hold.
BB
Insane, am I?! You have no idea just how insane I am!
My intention with this report is to demonstrate various shooting methods with this modern air rifle to show what is best. It is my intention to try and squeeze the best out of this sproinger and show others what I did to accomplish such.
Will my results be better than yours? I seriously have my doubts, but it will be challenging none the less. I think that my doing this report is to illustrate that just because it is “the latest and greatest”, it is not. This sproinger has all of the new bells and whistles and still will not shoot with some of the “old gals” hanging around here at RRHFWA and RRHHMM.
Yogi knows what I am saying. You and others here know also. Many of you folks have hung on to many of the “old gals”. Many of you know from your own experiences that the newer sproingers are just cheaper made than the “old gals”, not really better shooting. Physics has not changed over the years.
Are there “new” sproingers out there that are worth having? Oh yes. BB is testing one now. Of course, this basic design has been around for many a year. If the folks out there in La La Land pay real close attention to what is said around here, they know of a company that has a reputation of making very fine sproingers. I myself will always have an open door for one of these.
Will RidgeRunner be able to take this “sow’s ear” and turn it into a “silk purse”? I have my serious doubts, but the folks out there will know one way or another. 😉
By the way, I was shooting at twenty-five yards. I thought I had mentioned it, but I guess not. My bad.
RR
You did mention it.
“Ten of them made a “group” of about three and one half inches at twenty-five yards.”
We all including BB will be interested in following your endeavor of making chicken pie out of chicken unmentionables. Who knows? Maybe you can do it. Taming the trigger could do it.
Is this the identical rifle that BB tested or is it just the same model?
Deck
Deck,
Oops! My bad!
BB
B.B.,
RidgeRunner is messing with you by writing it out as:
twenty-five yards instead of 25 yds. I guess it looks farther on paper that way!
Lol!
shootski
shootski,
Not really messing with him. I just do not trust that digital stuff. It also forces them y’ung’ns to do a little thinkiing. They need all the help they can get.
Deck,
This is the same model. As I stated before, the gentleman at PAIR did not understand that I wanted to buy the one that BB was testing.
Am I going to make chicken pie? I would not bet on it.
RR,
Good to know (25 yards). And I don’t really think you are insane. 😉
BB
You don’t? Well, I am. Just ask Mrs. RR. She will tell you.
RidgeRunner,
Is that Chicken Pot Pie?
shootski
Squirrel pot pie would be better…
Bob
Honest Bob,
Squirrel Pot Pie is good but most of my squirrels were eaten in Survival training; didn’t have cooking gear or pie crusts.
The squirrel and other small game in survival situations was best kept SIMPLE I find that roasted Squirrel-on-a-Stick (as well as other small game and fresh water fish) was my go to method since it takes nothing but a knife and some sticks to mount the squirrel on and a fire for roasting. I used an in ground hole fire to lower the IR signature as well as the smoke.
The Dakota fire hole is my survival go to fire.
But how many folks these days know how to prepare the squirrel in the field?
This is my favorite method explained better than i could: https://www.artofmanliness.com/skills/outdoor-survival/how-to-field-dress-a-squirrel/
shootski
shootski,
You are really missing out on not having a big pot of gravy made from squirrels, rabbits and young groundhogs. Survival training? Is that what my youth was called?
If my rememberer is working correctly, my father enjoyed himself while on Navy Survival Training.
RidgeRunner,
I enjoyed all my US Navy Survival Training except for one – S.E.R.E. School – is the one i would never do over; once was more than enough. The first two letters worth were still fun but the last two were the most difficult things i have ever done.
Many rabbits and other small and large game have graced our table but most of it was without gravy and prepared european style. Squirrel was not an item with my folks even though they eventually embraced corn on the cob.
shootski
The Navy had ceased most survival training after Vietnam. I was not fortunate to go and play on tropical islands like that. Most of my time was spent in the Med.
S.E.R.E.? Regretfully, I do not know what that one is.
RidgeRunner,
“…go and play on tropical islands…”
Let me see: COLD/HOT dessert, HOT jungle, SNOW/FREEZING RAIN at Rangeley, ME.
S.E.R.E. US Navy Survival Evasion Resistance Escape School in the ’70s at the Rangeley Facilities was in response to our experience in Viet Cong and North Vietnam’s POW Camps. It was about as BRUTAL as they could make it and not kill too many of the trainees.
An interesting sanitized read: https://www.sandboxx.us/news/frosted-misery-a-navy-seal-in-sere-school/#:~:text=I went through a SERE,%2C I believe%2C and presently.
That was a more recent year/class (no doubt) after the death count was investigated and reforms were made.
We lost one of our class to the Portsmouth Naval Hospital’s Mental Ward.
shootski
I have never tried that. I just may have to gather up a bunch of these fuzzy-tailed tree rats around here and give that a try. The trouble I will have is convincing Mrs. RR to let me do such.
shootski,
You have a problem with CPP? Mrs. RR makes some of the best CPP I have ever eaten. She also makes a wonderful Beef Pot Pie.
Marie Calender does not do too bad in the CPP department, but they are nowhere close to Mrs. RR’s. Now Marie’s BPP is horrible.
RidgeRunner,
Once again it took me untill adulthood to have pies of any sort. The closest my family came to a pie was Zwiebelkuchen: https://www.daringgourmet.com/zwiebelkuchen-german-onion-pie/
I do in fact love a good pot pie!
shootski
shootski,
Zwiebelkuchen sounds delicious. I may have to give that a try.
I have been most fortunate in knowing a German woman many years ago and have eaten quite a few German recipes. I find that I enjoy many of them. I also knew a Japanese woman and enjoyed Japanese recipes also. I guess this is one of the advantages of living in military communities.
Hold consistency is key for me. This point can be clearly made with some springers that have accuracy potential. Shoot two different groups at 25 yards with its favorite pellet:
1) Place offhand under forearm near trigger guard.
2) Place offhand under forearm at its far end near the muzzle.
One group will often be obviously higher on the target paper than the other. Accuracy within each group may be similar but point of impact (POI) is different.
Don’t try this with your FWB300S or even your Diana 34 because they may be too forgiving.
Deck
Pictures of the artillery hold? Video? Dos and Don’ts?
We love learning from you.
R Scott,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV7zqBcW83Y&t=0
BB
BB,
Did you ever own or do a blog on the Rutten Windstar or the Browning Vectis 220, which had a similar action to the Erma EL10?
Brent
Brent,
No, never.
BB
B.B.,
This is a really DIFFICULT area for most all shooters!
I can not agree more with: ” “a repeatable consistent hold and follow-through” ” in the first paragraph of today’s Blog!
I think folks need to re read the very first paragraph you wrote as it is the key take away; or at least the key to understanding the rest of what you wrote.
Most of the experienced shooters know that firearms and pneumatic powerplants recoil in one direction (mostly) but metal spring powerplant airguns most often recoil in TWO directions and also often have a torque component as well. They may understand that intellectually but that level of understanding is insufficient.
You, the shooter, need to experience the recoil differences with total concentration on the guns reaction with every nerve in your body. For some that level of focused learning requires shooting in a safe direction with ABSOLUTELY NO CONCERN ON grouping on the backstop.
Readership give it a try…some of you may even want to do this with your eyes closed for additional focus on the guns reaction to the shot cycle and your hold.
shootski
PS: Regardless of your “infirmities” get away from the bench (if at all possible) and shoot, prone, kneeling, sitting, as well as standing. You don’t need to share your targets with anyone! Just share what you learn by getting away from rested shooting of any type.
One final thought be PATIENT with yourself. A coach once shared with me that, ” the shot cycle not taken when you feel it isn’t RIGHT is the difference between good shooters and champions.”
Thanks for the added nuance to what it means to become familiar with a particular gun.
As a generally patient methodical person, I do get puzzled as to why I will occasionally feel compelled to complete the “shot cycle” – even when I know better and time is not a factor.
Remarq,
Your welcome!
More nuances:
” I do get puzzled as to why I will occasionally feel compelled to complete the “shot cycle” – …”
Don’t be. That is a result of “conditioned learning”
“Conditioning is a form of learning in which either (1) a given stimulus (or signal) becomes increasingly effective in evoking a response or (2) a response occurs with increasing regularity in a well-specified and stable environment. The type of reinforcement used will determine the outcome.”
You can break out of that conditioned learning to: Take The Shot NOW! by focusing on the improvement in your shooting accuracy employing the Champions technique of terminating the shot cycle at first indication of problems.
Obviously timed shooting needs to be considered but most of our shooting isn’t timed or the amount of time is sufficient to balk the shot and regroup; especially in training.
shootski
For some reason that Beeman-C1 picture caught my eye. I can’t speak to its ergonomics, but the simple lines seemed especially elegant and aesthetically pleasing.
Remarq,
It was my impetus for the Bronco.
BB
Shootski,
Excellent points. I’ve shot many matches with springers, high powered rifles and traditional muzzleloaders for decades and understanding how the gun recoils is critical for achieving accuracy. The recoiling counter action varies with not just the gun but how the gun is held. This also varies with the shooting position. The “sandbag bench rest only” crowd can’t seem to understand that the point of impact may change when shot from the hand. Generally the artillery hold is needed most with low velocity and heavy recoiling guns such as springers and traditional muzzleloaders. If you want to feel and see really strong torque effects, try shooting a large caliber, black powder double barreled rifle! By necessity these need to be sighted in offhand.
Hey all
I bet as a kid if I ever got ahold of a spring gun that had hold preferences I would of maybe be turned off with them after shooting them.
Fortunately I didn’t own any spring guns until later in life (couldn’t afford them when I was younger) and exsperianced alot of different spring guns as time has moved on.
As a kid I shot my Winchester 190 semi-auto .22 rimfire rifle a lot and my air guns were pumpers that I also shot alot.
Back when I was a kid I just shot and learned what worked for that gun. And hmm thinking that’s what I did with those springers after I got them. But by then I was older and I had learning how to try (notice the word try) to modify things. It was embedded in my DNA to make them better.
All I know is looking back through time as I have involved it was all pretty well perfect timing. You don’t necessarily see it at the time. But it is amazing how it works out in its time.
Have fun and be safe. 🙂
If my “Rememberer” is working correctly, there was some discussion about eliminating a pivot point so recoil could remain in line long enough for the projectile to exit the barrel. Part of the Artillery Hold success.
One thing I have noticed is that an air rifle that weighs nearly 10lbs. really reduces recoil and just about eliminates a pistol grips pivot point. Seems the recoil movement is delayed, or slowed enough for the pellet to exit the rifle before any pivoting action kicks in. A body at rest thing I suppose. Combine that with magnum power and that pellet is gone and down range real fast. I like shooting heavy air rifles.
And speaking of pivot points my best shooting with a 45 was with the two finger hold.