Which one is right?
This report covers:
- Repeater
- Stop
- The need for repeaters
- Airgun repeaters
- How about ten-meter matches?
- Field target?
- Quigley
- Your new job
- Summary
Today I will talk about an area of our hobby that is of great concern to many folks. Should an airgun be a repeater or a single shot?
Repeater
I want a repeater! I need a fast follow-up shot in case I miss.
Ah — so you are a hunter.
No, I shoot at tin cans. But I don’t like to miss.
Stop
I’ll stop right there because all of you can take this tale in a thousand different directions, and each of them will be correct — in your experience. There is no right answer because this is a subjective discussion. The airgunner in question doesn’t NEED a fast follow-up shot. He WANTS a fast follow-up shot. He WANTS a repeater.
The need for repeaters
If you were asked to list a couple things that shooters want today, repeaters should be on your list. In 1903 the Springfield bolt action battle rifle came with a switch called the magazine cutoff. If it was in the OFF position the magazine would not feed cartridges and the rifle would act like a single shot. Five cartridges could always remain loaded in the magazine — ready for action when that switch was thrown to ON, but if the switch was set on OFF the bolt would never feed one of them and the rifle had to be individually loaded with a fresh round for every shot.
The magazine cutoff switch on an 03A3 Springfield.
The cutoff was there to keep soldiers from wasting ammunition. Forty years earlier, just after the U.S. Civil War, there were generals who didn’t want soldiers to have breech-loading rifles for the same reason. They knew that muzzleloaders slowed down the rate of fire, conserving ammunition. But no one asked the Union troops who faced Pickett’s Charge in the Battle of Gettysburg what they thought.
Imagine you are behind a barracade and the enemy soldiers come at you in a human wave attack — not unlike Pickett’s Charge just mentioned. I bet you will vote for a repeating rifle!
This kind of thinking in NASCAR would be to use an engine governor so the car can’t exceed a certain maximum speed. Slower speed means better milage which could result in fewer pit stops! That’s valuable race time saved! Right — I’m from the government and I’m here to help.
Airgun repeaters
There weren’t many air rifles at Gettysburg in 1863. Why would airgunners need repeaters today? Well, a timed event like a benchrest match is one big reason. That large circular magazine shown above is from an FX air rifle and FX is a dominant player in the benchrest world.
What about hunters? They need quick followup shots too — right? Yes, they do, but the world they operate in keeps them from carrying a 14-pound rifle with a 28-shot magazine. Ten shots is probably more than enough for most of them.
How about ten-meter matches?
If a timed course of fire is what drives the need for a repeater, what about a ten-meter air rifle match? They are timed. For men it’s 60 shots in 75 minutes at the world level. Would that justify a repeater? Not only no but heck no! Ten-meter shooters load each pellet singly and are quite happy to do so. In fact their pellets come from a special box that holds them separately — each one apart from all the others. They use the pellets remaining in that box to remind them of how many shots they have fired in the match.
Field target?
In the sport of field target magazines CAN be a hinderance. Single shots keep the shooter aware of what is happening, shot after shot. Magazines keep the shooter in the dark, as in, “Are there four or five pellets remaining?” Yes, mags are sometimes used, or even a lot of the time, but that’s because there aren’t that many single-shot precharged pneumatics that aren’t also ten-meter target rifles — right?
Quigley
And then there is Matthew Quigley. He shot a single-shot Sharps rifle and became the definition of a long range shooter in the movie, Quigley Down Under. He managed to beat the bad guys every time with his single shot. You can argue that the script was on his side, but a lot of Quigley-style modern Sharps rifles have been manufactured.
Your new job
You’ve just been hired to advise the executives of a mega airgun maker and they want to know what their next airgun should be — a repeater or a single shot. Before you answer that question I hope you think about what we have discussed today. And then advise them to make a repeater, because repeaters are what will sell today.
Summary
What you need depends on how it will be used. What you WANT depends on you. What manufacturers have to make to stay in business depends — well — on all the things we just discussed.
“…repeaters are what will sell today.”
BB,
I hear you on that; however, I think (and I could be in the minority here) that there will always be a market for something like the HW50S, a lightweight cool classic single shot.
Since I just shoot them for fun, all my airguns are single shots, with the exception of my NRA Colt Peacemaker (.177-caliber Umarex clone).
I just spent the afternoon plinking with my .22-caliber HW30S; with its 6X Bugbuster scope (sadly discontinued!) it is my favorite airgun. It’s accurate, lightweight, and has sufficient power to make it interesting, while still being mild-mannered enough that I can cock it with one finger.
In a word, it is delightful!
For pesting, I’ve got a Henry H001 .22LR; and for bigger stuff, I’ve got a Henry Small Game Rifle in .22 Magnum (with the Skinner peep sight), which is a great piece of kit.
But I grew up on single shot rifles, single shot shotguns, and muzzle loaders; hence, slinging lots of lead just for the sake of slinging lead was never really my thing (if it’s yours, that’s fine; good on you).
When I want to shoot just for fun, I’d rather slow the pace and shoot my HW30S or my Haenel model 1.
And if that makes me a dinosaur, well, I’m OK with that. 🙂
Blessings to you,
dave
Dave,
You are not alone.
Thanks, man; that’s good to know. 😉
Have to look into that Henry Small Game Rifle, Dave – a .22 Magnum rifle gap is one FM has been thinking of filling.
This hits close to home.
I like single shots, especially for precision shooting. You have the opportunity to examine each round for imperfections or damage before loading.
But I WANT a repeater. I also want to test the limits of what is happening in the loading process.
I want the manufacturers to produce quality reliable magazines that are not only durable ad reliable, but that also do not cause damage during the loading process.
Many manufacturers cheap out on the magazine, to them it is a consumable product with a limited life. And they do not care that the soft lead projectiles are deformed in the magazine before or during the loading sequence. It’s just collateral damage for having a repeater.
When a company takes the time and expense to design and manufacture a quality mag, you can USUALLY be sure the rifle is also of decent quality. But not always.
Repeater?, YES, in fact I want a semi auto repeater, that feeds from a magazine that does not deform the pellets. AND is accurate and consistent enough to be able to hold its own in competition, in the hands of a competent shooter.
Is that day today? Sadly no, but there are semi auto Airguns on the market that are working towards that goal.
It is a journey.
Every day, and in every way, we get better and better.
Ian.
Ian, it’s the we’re, well, “freaks” problem. Lots of people SAY they want better mags (sights, wood, etc.). But when it comes time to spend money…..
Well, there’s a reason you find Gamo and Hatsan at big box stores, and not HW and AirForce.
OP,
Yeah, they are cheap and the buyers have no idea what they are doing.
I have owned a Gamo, a SSP (SINGLE STROKE PNEUMATIC) but not a spring powered Gamo.
I also have never owned a Hatsan. Of any power plant.
But I handled a Hatsan pcp that I wouldn’t mind owning.
Ian.
Ian,
I am somewhat with you. I like to hit what I am shooting at.
Here is a slightly older example of a repeating springer. So cool.
.177 HAENEL MODEL IV E REPEATER
RG,
That is cool. It looks like Haenel took an older BSA of Lincoln Jeffries design and put a rotating magazine on it. I wonder how it feeds?
Roamin,
And here is a report on the Haenel model V that was similar:
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2009/07/haenel-model-v-repeater/
BB
Thanks, B.B. Very interesting.
B.B.,
Sometimes you feel like a nut. Sometimes you don’t.
Almond Joys do. Mounds don’t.
Repeaters that work well are like an Almond Joy.
The repeaters that don’t are not Mounds!
Another sport that requires repeaters is Youth Biathlon, this is the best one these days: https://fxairguns.com/rifles/biathlon-ii/
Can use a 5 shot straight magazine as well as a multishot rotary magazine. Of course you can always use a single shot tray in most repeaters.
As far as Hunters needing repeaters for a quick follow-up shot; I don’t believe in that religion. I believe you need to work to get the first shot to be the only shot and also devote the practice time to get a follow-up shot from an on stock/receiver (bullet/slug/pellet holder) quick enough to match someone using a non automatic loader.
On the “…Union troops who faced Pickett’s Charge in the Battle of Gettysburg…” they needed a number of Gatling Guns or a bunch of Claymores!
shootski
PS: This former Despicable needs to go tend to today’s Garbage…it is OLD and smelly!
shootski,
your little blurb here has hit the nail on the head, in more ways than one. 😉
A while back I mentioned the drilled Titanium mag used in the Western Sidewinder PCP, with a magnet retained stainless backing plate to hold in pellets. Just about bullet proof and dependable for full-auto fire.
The entire mag rotates not the insides. Kind of like a revolver, only a spring-loaded steel roller bearing keeps it in detent. Hard Air Magazine has pics in his review of it. Done right, but it alone costs as much as some air rifles. Precision machined, user friendly, with magnets installed. So, the technology is there. It’s just harder to get it right with a springer.
I find a repeater necessary for pest control. Not to mention plinking. They refuse to stand still for long or you may have more than one. Most don’t keep their head exposed from the ground while you reload.
As far as a break barrel goes. I find it extremely convenient to have a mag, but it must be totally reliable and not interfere with the pellets. A count indicator is a must if it’s not obvious how many pellets remain. You can still use a single shot tray for some mag feed. Not so much with a mag break barrel.
Bob M,
You are one of those who think they need a Gamo 3Geni. Nice mag. Works great. Has a shot counter. Not really any faster despite what the commercials say.
B.B.
No surprise from me, repeaters need a shot counter. Single loaders do not….
-Y
BB,
There have been multiple occasions when I had have had multiple racoons going after my trash in the backyard. I don’t have a semi-auto airgun, but I do have a Ruger 10/22. That stretches the definition of hunting for sure, but in certain pesting scenarios a repeater sure makes sense to me. Those that I have heard referred to as a “target rich environment”, and where the targets start trying to get away once the shooting starts.
CB
CB,
Very low recoil, very close range, very large targets, not very picky where you hit them. Hey, I can dig it.
Hi, I am RidgeRunner. I am a dinosaur. I am also a single shot kinda dude. Big surprise there, huh? I have been shooting for a very long time. My shooting preference has always been in this order: single shot, bolt (includes levers), semi and spray & pray.
I figured out a long time ago that if I have one shot, I need to make it count. Even with a bolt, there is rarely a “quick enough” follow-up shot. My experience with semi powder burners is the second “quick” shot is usually high. Most semi powder burners are also less accurate than a bolt action. Spray & prays do feel good to cut loose with, but do you really hit what you are shooting at? Only if what you are shooting at is really big.
In the airgun world, it is even worse in some ways. Feeding issues in many magazines tend to damage the very soft lead pellets. As has been pointed out previously, there are a few very well mad magazines out there. They are also not cheap and the airguns they work in are not found at the big box stores either.
On to sproingers. ALL of them take a bit of time and some gyrations to cycle them. The addition of a magazine will only reduce that time and gyrations by a fractional amount. Even with the addition of a magazine, you still have to remove the air rifle from your shoulder to go through the cycling gyration and re-aim at your intended target. Reloading a sproinger is but a small part of that.
Whether I like to admit it or not, repeater airguns do sell, at least to the unwashed. The primary goal of all airgun manufacturers are sales. Hey, even AirForce expanded their offerings to include repeaters many years ago. John and his gang used to sell Cometas and now sell RAW.
Now, as for me, I would rather have a single shot than a magazine feed. I do have one sproinger and two PCPs here that use magazines, but the sproinger and one of the PCPs will hopefully be living elsewhere after Saturday. I even preferred using the single shot tray in the PCP when I shot it.
Speaking of airgun shows:
https://www.tmacsairgunservice.com/
My grandson and I will be there Saturday. I will have on my gray Stetson and he is very tall.
Be there or be square.
“Now, as for me, I would rather have a single shot than a magazine feed.”
Yep; I’m not the only dinosaur…cool. 🙂
As someone who frequently hunts with bows and slingshots, single shot is not a deal breaker.
My springers, muli-pump, and SSPs are single shot. Most of my PCPs are repeaters that, when bench shooting, are used in single shot mode.
When shooting from a bench there’s no problem having an open can to pluck pellets from. When shooting off hand, retrieving a pellet from a pocket or pouch is not so convenient – especially if it’s cold enough that you have to wear gloves.
Most of my shooting is a deliberate single shot cycle, (rifle is lowered, safety on between shots) even if I happen to be using a magazine.
Though, I’ll admit that when faced with a stampede of feral soda cans or a hoard of aggressive spinners, I’ve been known to empty a magazine pretty fast 😉
The plastic dial-a-problem magazines are a pet peeve. They are complex, delicate, finicky and damage the pellets.
IMHO, The Weihrauch HW100 has the best magazine system in the world – simple, robust, positive and protects the pellets. The Air Arms and Daystate mags are more complex but they protect the pellets.
Depending on the application, the presence or lack of a magazine usually isn’t much of a problem for me but all else considered, I’d pick a repeater over a single shot even if I would likely be shooting it in single shot mode.
Cheers!
I think that it is nice to be able to choose between single shot and repeater. However some of the magazine fed guns have slots that are just wide enough for the magazine to fit. Therefore they can be difficult to load single shot pellets. Benjamin Marauders are an example. The single shot loader from Maple Custom Products is a reasonable solution for that issue.
I must be missing something. My first Marauder came not only with a magazine but a single shot tray. So why not have the manufacturer you just took a position with make their repeating rifle also be able to take a single shot tray? Would this not fill all shooters’ requirements?
Fred formerly of the Demokratik Peeples Republik of NJ now in GA
Fred, I could be wrong, but the current Marauders seem to not include the single shot tray. A Quick Look on the Benjamin web site indicates a .177 caliber (didn’t see any other calibers) single shot tray available for $18.00, which is the same price as the Maple Custom Products single shot loader. In my opinion, the Maple Custom Products single shot loader is easier to use because it pivots out to make the port more accessible than trying to place a pellet into a tray inside a narrow slot in the reciever. So that would be my preference. 🙂
So far, all of FM’s long airguns are single-shot; yeah, have thought about acquiring a semiauto Marauder or similar but the thing is, the more rapidly FM shoots, the more he will miss and waste pellets. A single-shot shooter makes him concentrate on doing better between shots and to take his time doing so. When doing pest control, knowing there was maybe one opportunity to nail the target has made him a more focused, relaxed shooter. Yes, some of the pests have escaped thanks to his less-than-stellar shooting skills. All the “ladies” residing here are fun to shoot; each challenges FM in her own way.
Not to say a semiautomatic airgun couldn’t find a home in Casa FM someday but don’t NEED one right now. FM WANTS a Jaguar XKE too, but in reality does not NEED one and that cat will be forever unaffordable for him in any case.
B.B. and Readership,
Happy Halloween!
Hope you all got lots of TREATS.
“…Matthew Quigley. He shot a single-shot Sharps rifle and became the definition of a long range shooter in the movie, Quigley Down Under.”
Does anyone remember the Quigley Airgun Challenge?
It consisted of a scale bucket shot at a scaled down distance with airguns. At the time i thought it was funny because most were still shooting Springers, Single & Multipumps and the scale distance 55 yards was a joke…maybe it is time for a new Quigley Airgun Challenge with a more challenging distance.
shootski
I’m a methodical kinda guy…I have repeaters but my favourite air guns are a Slavia 631 and an Avanti 853c.
My cherished powder burner is a Pedersoli Sharps. It’s a good thing it’s a single shot because with its brass buttplate my shoulder can only take about a dozen rounds of 45/70
It’s also why I still shoot a lot of film (though I have digital cameras).
I’m a ‘the journey is as important as the destination’ kinda guy.
“I’m a ‘the journey is as important as the destination’ kinda guy.”
cowboystar dad, I like your attitude. 😉