Sheridan 190B.
This report covers:
- The test
- Backstop
- First up-rifled slugs
- Velocity with rifled slugs
- Velocity with wadcutters
- Velocity with domes
- Discharge
- Discussion
- Fewer pumps
- What has been learned?
Today we look at the velocity of the three 3D-printed projectiles reader Ian McKee made for the Sheridan 190B tranquilizer pistol. I will tell you now that this test was unlike any other!
The test
The first thing I had to do was to figure out how to test this thing. It is not like any airgun I’ve ever tested. And the ammo is 3D-printed for the gun, so we are way off the reservation today!
I decided to pump the pistol 10 times per shot. I knew from experience that would be a lot of pumping, so I decided to shoot strings of 5 shots. But when the test started and I realized what it actually took, the number of shots per projectile dropped to three for reasons you will soon learn.
Ian printed three types of projectiles, a wadcutter, a dome and one that looks like a rifled slug. I tested each type separately.
These were printed white to make them easier to find. Ian did print a couple black domes but they are very light and not well balanced for good flight. I didn’t test them.
Backstop
Many readers had suggested that a fabric backstop would be best and I knew from my days of airsoft testing that was the way to go. But would a common blanket be enough to do the job?
Not wanting to find out the hard way I used my army duffle bag as a backstop. It’s tough canvas and is so old that it doesn’t have backpack-style carrying straps like the more modern ones. It’s the toughest fabric I own. I learned during the test that pulling one side of the fabric away from the other to let air into the bag gives additional cushioning to the shot. That stops the projectile more certainly, while hitting a taught canvas bag causes a lot of bounce-back!
I put a soft cloth blanket on the floor to stop projectiles from rolling away, but of all the ones I shot, only one stayed on the blanket.
First up-rifled slugs
The rifled slugs were the first to be tested. They weigh 23 grains, nominally. These are the projectiles that have a 6mm airsoft ball in their nose. Ian said he did that so the weight of the projectile would be easy to adjust because airsoft balls come in different weights. He also did it because it made the weight of the projectle biased toward the front which should give a more stable flight.
On the first round I learned that 10 pumps is too much. It’s not that hard to close the pump handle but to open it for the pump stroke takes a LOT!
Up to 5 pumps it’s pretty easy to open the pump handle, but then it starts to become difficult. After seven pumps it is very difficult to separate the pump handle and after eight pumps it’s nearly impossible. Also because the 190B is a pistol the hand that isn’t pumping has to grab the pistol around the rear sight which it is painful.
Velocity with rifled slugs
The first slug loaded very tight in the breech. I had to bump the bolt to close it. It then went out at 325 f.p.s. Since the slug weighs 23 grains it developed produced 5.4 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle. Here are the three shots:
Shot……………Velocity………….Fit the breech
1……………………325…………………tight
2……………………317…………………tight
3……………………330…………………loose
As you see, the third slug fit the breech loose and did increase in velocity. The average velocity for the three shots was 324 f.p.s.
As Ian noted, the white projectiles are easier to see in flight. That will come in handy during the accuracy testing.
I did lose one slug that bounced back rather fast and from the sound it made is probably on my workbench. Maybe it’s next to the Markpoint lawyer trigger spring.
Velocity with wadcutters
The second projectile tested was the wadcutter that looks like a smallbore pellet. This one weighs 18.16 grains nominally. The three pellets went out as follows:
Shot……………Velocity………….Fit the breech
1……………………321…………………loose
2……………………342…………………snug
3……………………322…………………not quite as snug as number 2.
The average velocity for this projectile was 328 f.p.s. and at that speed it generates 4.34 foot pounds. None of these were lost in testing.
Velocity with domes
The final projectile tested was the 23-grain dome. Here is how they performed:
Shot……………Velocity………….Fit the breech
1……………………284…………………loose
2……………………299…………………tight
3……………………299…………………tight
The average velocity for this projectile was 294 f.p.s. and at that speed it generates 4.42 foot pounds of energy. I lost two domed projectiles in their velocity test.
Discharge
On 10 pumps the pistol generated 100.7 decibels.
Discussion
As you can see the 190B is not a powerful big bore. But it is safer for shooting around and even inside the house. Wear safety glasses though because there will be bounce-backs.
Fewer pumps
I wanted to see what a fewer number of pumps would give. For each of the following shots the pistol was pumped five times.
Projectile…………….Vel.
Rifled slug……………..267
Wadcutter……………..239
Dome…………………….217
What has been learned?
From the breech fit we learned that even when projectiles are 3D-printed they aren’t always the exact size. The white color does make them easier to see in flight. And a snug fit is perhaps the best one. This could be done through sorting during shooting.
I also learned that the softer the fabric backstop the less bounce-back there will be. But unless the fabric is loose you’re going to lose some projectiles. In fact losing them will be a bigger problem than wearing them out, because they show no wear after being fired repeated times.
And finally I learned that this pistol is very hard to hold while pumping. Anything over 7 pumps is very difficult to achieve. The Sheridan 178B long gun would be easier to pump I’m sure.
Bet you could split one of those wadcutters into 4 parts after drilling a hole in the center to snugly hold a BB, .177 or .22 or anything you choose to shoot and create a sabot. Just tape them together on the bottom so they spread apart and drop when shot but remain together.
Another option, install a tube barrel and use a reusable plastic pellet older inserted behind it. Kind of like a RAP4 .68 Paint Ball gun works converted to shoot BBs and pellets.
Any of the projectiles I have printed could easily be modified in the software to have a cavity inside of any shape or size.
Then split into sections, as you mention.
When I first tried printing projectiles for it, my first designs were long missle shaped designs, they didn’t work well.
Then slimmer projectiles with discarding sabots. I tried sabots around #2 pencils.
Sabots around steel Phillips head screw driver tips like what fit in the end of a magnetic screw driver with interchangeable bits.
The winners so far have been the traditional pellet designs.
Man, really hope someone brings back the Sheridan/Benjamin rifles and pistols.
Maybe AirForce needs to get into MPPs?
The snug fitting projectiles have higher velocities and I suspect will also be more accurate. I wonder if a dart (bolt) similar to what PA sells in .177 caliber could be found or manufactured for accuracy testing, etc.. Here’s a photo:
Elmer,
Take a look at the top photo and you will see a “practice dart” exactly like you want for this air pistol.
Yes RR, I seem to remember it being said it was quite expensive and hard to find, if a replacement was needed. So, I would only be likely to want to use it if I were practicing for a real shot at an animal for tranquilization. With the bolt idea, I was thinking about something that might be fun to shoot and not be something that I would worry too much about if it were to be damaged or worn out.
BB,
If you hang up a sheet from a rope about six feet up using clothes pins, you will find that the sheet is loose enough to stop the projectiles, and they will fall almost straight down. The excess sheet can be spread out on the floor to “catch” the falling projectiles.
As for Sheridan remaking these, it ain’t gonna happen. Crosman killed Sheridan and now Gamo is in the process of killing Crosman.
Maybe the cavalry will ride in at the last minute to save Crosman; being Gamo is a Spanish company, it would be appropriate to give the mission to TR and his Rough Riders. One can dream and/or fantasize. 😉
RidgeRunner
” ” (DITTOS)
shootski
BB,
Shootski predicted a slow velocity, but I still think this is an interesting and fun experiment.
What about a lubricant for the barrel? A light machine, silicone oil, or a light swab of white Lithium grease might improve the barrel seal and the slipperiness of the projectile and make it go faster. Or else it will slow it down…
Do you think added weight to the projectile would make it go slower or faster? How much does pellet speed matter in this experiment?
Looking forward to reading what it’s like to shoot this gun, after the pumping part is done. How loopy is the trajectory at ten meters, or at whatever your shooting distance is? Can you hear the spinning slug or the wadcutter as they fly?
Ian, if these pellets fly accurately, I think it would be really cool if you designed a noise-making feature to one of them. A short cellophane tail that would rattle just a little ;).
This is all about fun and I appreciate the work that went into making this series happen. Thank you BB & Ian!
Will
Roman slingers – mostly recruited from the ranks of expert slingers from the Balearic Islands – pierced their missiles so they would make a whistling sound, which was supposedly demoralizing to any foe facing them. Maybe drilling some small holes in those big diabolos would have a similar effect except FM would be afraid they would be too leaky to work right.
FM,
Check out this from the Slingshot Channel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vJBKfQFD8I
Jorge Sprave experiments with ancient Roman sling ammo, some with holes. Archeologists have found many lead sling projectiles with the same size holes—4 mm X 5mm deep.
This from another site goes into the history of sling ammunition in more detail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tD8eP7ojFY
Those lead pieces will tumble in flight, making the whistle warbling sound. Where would you put the hole in something that doesn’t tumble?
Will S,
shootski’s Crystal Ball says a dry lubricant like graphite or better from a clean standpoint would be Krytox™ a PFPE and not a PTFE so it is considered food safe and non toxic by NSF.
https://tmcindustries.com/products/krytox-gpl-204?variant=39933208330307&country=US¤cy=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&srsltid=AfmBOoqnzFw0xAdHcAe500gqGmrrrD4ZdPT5NsaH1y_rB953J_eEU78jniY
“Do you think added weight to the projectile would make it go slower or faster?”
Given all other factors held equal the same number of pumps/pressure a PCP (pneumatic powerplant) will shoot a heavier projectile at a lower MV (Muzzle Velocity) but may give a better amount of down range velocity retention.
shootski
I suspect graphite would improve velocity, where as Krytox if carried by aerosol would coat uniformly but as a grease / oil of any sort would slow things down. The easy way to apply graphite is to use Neolube a colloidal solution of very fine graphite and iso-propanol. I used Neolube a lot when on active duty and I took couple of expired bottles to use on locks and any metal to metal sliding surfaces. It takes two to three light coatings before you have enough on the surfaces. It goes on like very thin black paint, allow 5 to 10 minutes to dry before re-coating.
Graphite and pure lead act similarly on hard metal surfaces as a dry lubricant. The thing to avoid with lead is supersonic velocity this would cause micro heating of lead and resulting in leading of the barrel. I think I will try a little Neolube in the barrel of my HW50S this summer to see if it makes a difference.
Mike
Will,
In my experience oil slows down projectiles. I know it does for pellets. What happens with synthetics I haven’t a clue. Maybe I’ll find a way to give it a try, though velocity was never what I was after.
B B
B.B.,
I totally understand your going in proposition.
And, agree that lube in bore or on projectiles almost always slows the MV.
The dry lube might give a better MV stability would be a potential benefit.
Even though the demonstrated FPS variation appear on first glance to be small they are in fact very large when viewed as a percentage of overall velocity; which is far more important from ballistic accuracy perspective.
shootski
PS: a larger MV sample size would help as well on any of the lubed or un-lubed testing ;^)
I don’t know enough about fluid dynamics to design an orifice to make it whistle going down range.
But a design can be embedded in the 3D print code to make it happen.
The projectiles take about 7 minutes each to print.
Rather than modifying each projectile by hand.
Ian.
45Bravo,
Seven minute print time per projectile is okay for prototyping but not viable commercial production.
Do you think injection molding or some other much faster method for production is feasible with these designs?
shootski
Absolutely it’s feasible with these designs.
BUT, how many would you have to sell to the public to pay for the cost of the injection molding parts.
Even if you have a company that has the machines the cost of the molds is extremely expensive.
The rifle slug concept is based on commercially available projectiles for the less than lethal 50 caliber self-defense weapons on the market.
I do not know what their exact diameter is. I have not played with any of those projectiles.
The ones i 3-D printed or printed to be a snug to tight fit in the bore of this particular pistol.
For the hobbies that owns a 50 caliber Airgun projector the 3-D print option is a viable option because 100 projectiles using the correct back stop will last you quite a long time
45Bravo,
I think how many rounds can be sold will depend on two things.
First we will need to see potential accuracy regardless of if this remains an indoor plinking thing or gets used for a new twist on Skirmishing and/or Paintball sport.
Second With reasonable accuracy and range I can envision the GAME of TRANQ as advertised on TIKTOK – Make Your Day*
Few rules but the winner is last player standing ;^)
I think you would have a hard time producing enough projectiles if you can get a TikTok Challenge going….
shootski
* My Apologies to Dirty Harry
When I print projectiles for projects like this, after I have the design finalized and working.
I can set the printer to print as many as will I want to make ( or that can fit on the print bed [256mm x 256mm). Before I go to bed.
Then go to sleep and wake up to a bunch of completed projectiles.
I don’t do Tik Tok.
Working in the IT field, I have to continually fight their onslaught brought on by users that use the TikTok platform on their personal phones while on our company Wi-Fi.
And if you ever read the terms of service of what they want to have access to while on your personal network you might change your mind.
Ian
“Social” media is stupefying and idiotizing our “young ‘uns.” Maybe the “Z” in so-called “Gen Z” stands for zombie. If FM had a magic wand powerful enough, he’d make all (anti) “social” media disappear. Behooves us to get the young people outside and into healthy outdoor activities – airgunning comes to mind for some reason. 😉
45Bravo,
My Reply was meant to be apocryphal.
I don’t use TikTok or most of the other “social” media platforms. And know how to block or kill them when necessary.
If there is one regret in my life that i will take to my grave it is that i took the ARPANET from a phone cradles based system to T-1 speeds and the fastest data processing networked terminals for my Command & Control Systems testing needs at the beginning of the ’80s!
I suspect you know the history after it got into civilian hands. I never anticipated the way(s) that fast ubiquitous communications would be used to cause such damage to interpersonal relations as FawltyManuel so eloquently points out above.
shootski
That development was not your fault or anyone else’s, shootski. As with all inventions and technology improvements, outcomes are always of the “double-edged sword” nature – the technology can be used for good or for evil. We humans were gifted with free will by the Creator and He lets us choose the path to travel. The problem occurs when we choose the wrong path with the false expectations of avoiding the consequences of a poor choice.
So, here we are. God help us. It may be Sunday but you ain’t the preacher, FM. Time to hush up. No shooting today around Casa FM – going to drool over some vintage wheeled beauties.
FawltyManuel,
Your kind thoughts are always welcomed.
Thank you for your Absolution of my trespasses; now if you were just the new Pope. At the intellectual level i know i’m Not Guilty of anything but at the emotional level i’ll probably remain irrational for some time. Hopefully things don’t get worse with the transfer of machine learning (AI) to the civilian world and especially the criminal element.
On the good side of things my LEO daughter has stretched out her longest Cold Bore hit on steel to 1123 yards (1027 meters) this morning in gale conditions; her WIND reading has gotten really impressive.
shootski
Hahah! FM is the one needing absolution…but God is patient with his small critters. Thank you for the endorsement for Papal office but once again, echoing Henry Clay, paraphrasing him too, FM would rather be right than President or Pope.
Speaking of the Almighty, hope it does not take an Act of God for the auction-Marauder to escape the bowels of the USPS.
That was some impressive impact your daughter achieved there!
FawltyManuel,
I believe you are going to really enjoy your Marauder. I only have my 1st generation .22 caliber very low number example equipped with a DonnyFL TATSU Suppressor it has no downrange report. Thus far the Marauder has never failed to bring on a BIG smile with its results on paper as well as the totally reliable impact on the pests.
I believe it might become your favorite Iguana hunter.
shootski
Ian,
I was wondering if you had considered using a felt wad on the back of a projectile, like a Brenneke slug? The body wouldn’t have to be such a tight fit in the barrel and the felt could seal well enough for velocity. It might also give a little more drag at the back end.
(Just putting my 2 cents worth in.)
Thanks for your ongoing work (play? research?)
Bill
I had not thought of a felt wad behind the slug.
It is a possibility.
What I like about the 3D printed slug in its current configuration, is it spins in the smooth bore of the pistol. The air pushing on the rear enters the spiral grooves and starts the spin.
With a felt card or backer, I don’t know if it would do it.
I know they spin because the first ones I printed and shot during the design stage, I had painted half of the rear of the projectile with a black sharpie.
When watching the round go down range you could see the spin.
I am sure Tom will cover the accuracy to at least 10:meters, possibly out to his 22 yard indoor range.
In my “accuracy” testing I used a cardboard box with a blanket inside..
We will see how Tom’s testing goes.
Remember this is not a precision pistol.
It’s meant to hit the rump of an animal the size of a cow.
At a distance where the animal is not a danger to you.
But I can say, is capable of better accuracy than minute of rump..
Ian.
B.B. and Readership,
Are you all seeing this intrusive Pop-up about: Got a Question… Do You Need an Honest Opinion?
Is it SIMPLY IT out of CONTROL again?
What could they possibly be giving us an honest opinion about on Tom’s Blog?
Wondering…
shootski
45 Bravo
Looks like someone is printing darts for the Umarex 50 cal markers.
Team
50 Cal nerf pistol. 125 FPS . Just received my order of 50 cal blowgun darts. Will test tomorrow morning.
Should be fun.
jda001
experiment failed 50 Cal darts do not work.
Hotrods & Handguns,
Things slowed down a bit, so I thought I’d share some interesting life stuff for shooters and bikers.
My life has been a series of extraordinary events.
From living in England and riding my BSA motorcycle around for two years, riding on the sand in Daytona Beach in Florida, working on an aircraft carrier as a flightdeck troubleshooter in an F-14 Navy Fighter Squadron, and flying all around the Pacific and Far East as a Navy aircrew mechanic.
Riding my Harley Shovelhead chopper alongside outlaw bikers on a Yuma Prision Run, deploying on a Canadian military supply ship as part of a Navy helicopter detachment, getting qualified to shoot a 45 Cal pistol, and cruising up the Sacramento River on a Navy Fast Frigate till it ended there and partying in ‘Oldtown Sacramento”. It slowed down some but then I got qualified to ‘drive’ DC-8, DC-9 and Boeing 767 aircraft as a civilian Aircraft Technician.
My youngest is picking up where I left off. At a shooting range she just got invited to an ATF shooting and entertainment event held at an exclusive shooting club. ‘Hotrods and Handguns’ in Huntington Beach.
She hangs and rides her bike with vintage motorcycle riders and hangs out in the swank ‘Bike Shed Moto Co.’ in LA California. Managed to go through police motorcycle training. Has connections through her LA County Administration job. Has a degree in Criminal Forensics and Business. Attends vintage track events and I went with her to the vintage bike races held at the Laguna Seca racetrack with her friend who rides “Monkey” with Jay Leno’s auto mechanics Formula One side car bike. A weekend of pit time.
She has lived in Germany, visited Alaska, Japan and Mexico and slid down the cable slide while hiking on Catalina Island.
She never slows down. Has a friend with a Lamborghini Countach who parties in Malibu. She wanted a Jeep Wrangler to go off roading like I did, but I convinced her to get a more civilized Jeep Renegade instead. Good move with the gas price out here in CA.
One day she’ll have all my airguns and bikes. Won’t let me sell off the 9′ Harley… “No way Dad!” She will get someone to ride her on it if she can’t pull the clutch lever. Probably convert it to hydraulic operation.
Forgot to mention, when I shot the SVD Dragunov BB rifle, relatively close, and got dime sized groups, it was on a shooting rest. The reason I said it was capable of it not necessarily me.
It has a very unusual mild recoil feel. The spring-loaded bolt with the CO2 cylinder inside does not slam forward. The air valve out front is spring loaded as well and it kind of springs back after being compressed to open. You can hear and feel the springs moving the bolt back and forth but it’s not like any regular recoil.
It kind of buzzes.
3d printed projectiles likely need a break in. In this application they would be similar to blowgun darts. Those only start to work as expected after many uses.