M1A1 BB submachinegun.
This report covers:
- Charging with CO2
- Loading
- Select-fire
- Daisy BBs
- Discharge sound
- Crosman Black Widows
- Trigger
- The bolt handle moves
- H&N round lead balls
- Full auto
- Shot count
- Summary
Today we fire the Thompson M1A1BB gun for the first time. This will be a velocity test, plus we will check out some other things that we have wondered about.
Charging with CO2
This submachine gun takes two 12-gram CO2 cartridges. They fit in the stick magazine, with the first one going in down and the second up. Down and up refer to the piercing flat on the cartridge tip. And you put Crosman Pellgunoil or some other sealing oil on the tips of both cartridges to keep the interior seals fresh.
Loading
Thirty BBs also go in the magazine. And it is super-easy to load! Lay it flat with the loading channel on top and lock the follower back. Then drop the BBs into the grooved channel above the loading port. I find that placing something under the rear of the mag to create a slight slope speeds the process. Let the BBs roll in.
This is how to load the magazine easily.
And that’s the magazine loaded with H&N copper-plated round balls.
Select-fire
I covered this in Part 1. The fact that this BB gun has select fire makes it easy to chronograph. I will note that the velocity does decrease as shots are fired and the owner’s manual even mentions this.
Daisy BBs
First to be tried were Daisy BBs, Ten averaged 457 f.p.s. The velocity spread went from 449 to 462 f.p.s., a spread of 13 f.p.s.
Discharge sound
The Thompson discharged at a level of 96 decibels. That’s reasonably quiet.
Crosman Black Widows
Next up were ten Crosman Black Widows. They averaged 456 f.p.s. The low was 447 and the high was 465—a difference of 18 f.p.s.
Trigger
I will say this Thompson has a two-stage trigger. There is definitely some take-up before the trigger stops. I won’t call stage two crisp, but you do know it’s there.
The bolt handle moves
One question we had in Part 1 was does the bolt handle move when the gun fires and the answer is yes. I don’t think it will be dangerous to anyone, either right or left-handed shooters, because the design of the gun keeps your body parts well away from that handle. You’d have to work to get hurt by it.
H&N round lead balls
I’m out of H&N Smart Shot BBs, but I think the H&N copper-plated lead balls I used are the same thing by another name. The Thompson stick magazine makes them a possible choice.
Ten averaged 391 f.p.s. The low was 373 and the high was 404 f.p.s. which is a spread of 31 f.p.s.
Full auto
After velocity testing I tried the full-auto mode. This subgun fires as fast as the German MG42 from WWII, which I think might have been called the Devil’s zipper. It fires faster than the M16, but this Thompson IS NOT TOO FAST FOR ACCURACY. In fact the fast firing seems to make it more accurate! That’s an exaggeration, but a very slight one!
The individual BB holes (arrows) were shot during velocity testing from 8 feet distance. The two larger groups in the box were shot full auto from the same distance. Each of them holds 10-12 BBs.
It’s easy to shoot just five shots per burst. You just need to be quick on the trigger.
Shot count
I got about 110 shots with two CO2 cartridges. There were the 30 in the velocity test, plus the remainder of the H&N round balls after the 10 we checked for velocity. They were fired full-auto. Then there were two more 30-round strings shot full auto.
The last 20 rounds went out very slowly. Some didn’t even penetrate the cardboard target box. The cyclic rate (rate of fire) even decreased somewhat.
Summary
So far, so good. The M1A1 does have nice movement during firing but it’s not even as much as a 9mm pistol cartridge fired in a submachine gun. Therefore the gun does move while firing but is very easily held for a small group.
The trigger is heavy but positive. I think this gun will be very accurate.
Wow, full auto and accurate!
I wonder how well it does with minute of soda can at backyard distances?
Well beyond the standard 5 meters most BB guns are shot at.
Happy Friday everyone!
Ian.
B.B.,
This thing’s shaping up to be a real shooter!
And if you wanted to go to a costume party dressed as a 1920s gangster, this is the piece to have.
You’d surely look a lot better with this than with the airsoft (orange thing!) gun the guy has in this ad. 😉
Blessings to you,
dave
(ad here: https://www.orientaltrading.com/mens-gangster-costume-medium-a2-CC01028BWMD.fltr )
Can the inner “gangster” within me shoot this gun accurately? I wanna know. Orv.
Hoppalong Doc,
Are we going to ask Tom to shoot out the Red Star?
Siraniko
Make sure the guy who looks the target over does not have a red marker.
I do not want to know how much money I left on the midway playing that rigged game as a young man. I believe it to be mathematically impossible to get all the red. No plan or pattern of fire would work.
I read the log regularly but have not posted in a long time.
Lots of “life” happening in the last year.
This blog is one of my happy places.
SSC,
The blog is one of my happy places, too.
BB
Hi I wonder if a nitro air cartridge would work in this gun?
Darryld,
No, this airgun uses two 12-gram CO2 cartridges that are much smaller than the NitroAir cartridge.
BB
Darryld,
As BB said the nitro air cartridge will not fit, but keep in mind that the pressure of co2 is about 800 psi and the nitro is 3600 psi, if the nitro air is put into a co2 gun it will most probably explode the gun and possibly cause personal harm or death.
I think that at some time someone will connect one of the nitro tanks to a co2 gun and it will not be a good thing.
Mike
Tom,
Not surprised with the velocity decrease on succeeding rounds on full auto since the CO2 is cooling the mechanism down decreasing the amount of gas expanding to push the BBs out. This might also be the reason why it slows down as the oil in the mechanism starts to become the consistency of grease until it warms up again.
Fascinating example of a full auto BB gun.
Siraniko
PS Section Charging with CO2 1st paragraph last sentence: “And you put Crosman Pellgunoil or some other sealing oil on the tips os (of) both cartridges to keep the interior seals fresh.”
Siraniko,
Fixed it. Thanks,
BB
Like I said, I prefer chocolate. I have played with the M712 and other bb rockers before. They can be fun on occasion, but do not interest me enough to own one. Now, I would not mind having an old Quakenbush or even a wire stocked Daisy.
This seems a fun one. Now FM is encouraged to “chrony” his Umarex MP40 and check for accuracy. Seems to be accurate enough for a BB shooter but not as much as the Thompson, based on prior experience. With two CO2 cartridges, there is enough gas for discharging three of the MP40 magazines holding 50-52 BBs each. To Siraniko’s point about the CO2 “cooling down” when you fire long bursts, that is less of a problem in S FL with our hot as Hades temperatures, specially if you fire short bursts.
Other nicknames FM has heard of for the MG42 are “Hitlergeige” – “Hitler’s violin,” supposedly so nicknamed by its German users and “Hitler’s Buzzsaw,” given it by our GIs.
Basil,
Hot as hades? It was 102 F here yesterday.
BB
You win the hot prize – by about 4 degrees. We may win the humidity one.
BB, you said the trigger pull is heavy. How heavy is it?
Mike
Mike,
Well since I plan to adjust it I never measured it. I’d say 6-8 pounds right now. I’ll report on it when I test the velocity next time.
BB
MG42: Hitler’s zipper it was called around here. Whatever the nick names it was highly effective in many roles as was the MG34. The design was both amazing and enduring. Never got to shoot one but have seen a good many up close.
Deck
FM had a chance to acquire a 1945-manufactured MG42 for a mere $1000 US – sadly that was in the early ’70s when he was still a student, employed part-time and so, no-go. The ATF tax stamp would have added another $200 to the purchase price.
Yes, but can you shoot the star out?
-Y
Bet those German machine gunners shot a lot of RED stars out with them.
FawltyManuel,
Only competition the Wehrmacht gunners (on the Eastern Front) had was the Russian Kommisarina with the Thompson Submachine Guns bringing up the “rear” of attacking Red Army formations.
shootski
I ordered this Thompson M1A1 after reading Tom’s first blog. Originally decided not to before the blog because I already had the Airsoft version. Can’t imagine what changed my mind. Oh well.
These Umarex Legends series are outstanding quality replicas so I have no regrets and probably never will. They also seem to have power just a bit above the rest to avoid of the toy reputation.
One thing I wish they would improve on is the availability of extra magazines. When you have mags with CO2 in them the airgun is just about useless without one as far as shooting them anyway and full autos almost demand extra mags for warmups. Still waiting for them to come into stock.
Always nice to have a spare if the airgun is dropped from the market. Fact is I usually get a spare mag for every airgun I get. Shells for all the revolvers as well.
It’s my thinking that quality replicas costing a bit more are usually picked up fast by hardcore collectors and knowledgeable shooters who appreciate them more and are willing to pay extra. Once everyone has one the sales start to drop off and they discontinue it eventually. You snooze, you ‘looze’.
I was going to post this pic of this We-Tech Artillery version P08 ( Longer barrel with sights mounted on it ) as an example of an airgun / mag that were discontinued but it is actually still for sale. Thought it was gone? Long delayed restock?
But I’ll leave it in and perhaps UMAREX may see it and decide to issue it as another replica BB pistol with a detachable stock.