IZH-61 magazine test

Chuck is a reader who posted a lengthy comment about blind-testing a batch of IZH 61 clips. His methods were sound, so I asked him to turn it into a guest blog for everyone.

IZH-61 magazine test

by Chuck

I bought an IZH-61 for myself a while back and liked it so much that I bought one for each of my three grandkids. I had their 6 magazines and my 2 for a total of 8 magazines, so I developed a blind test.

I marked each gun and mag with each child’s first initial in case a gun or mag got or lost so there’d be no arguing over whose it was. This made it easy for me to identify each magazine for the test, but only under close inspection because I used a black marker on the black mags.

Testing procedure
I assure you I did not know whose magazine I was shooting with, yet, after a batch of 8 magazines, I knew which magazine to match up with which target. Next, before shooting, I mixed up all the magazines and laid them out in the order of the targets. I then shot them in that order, matched and labeled them on their targets; I mixed them up again and shot another batch at 8 different targets. That was 2 batches of 8 magazines each, 5 shots per target, 16 targets, for a total of 80 shots, hence a fatigue and concentration issue. I had to concentrate harder on the second round of 8.

My range is indoors and 10 yards, I used the same Bug Buster scoped gun with Beeman H&N Match Wadcutters (8.0 grains). I used them because I had a lot, and I had previously weighed each one on an electronic scale.

Test results for batches 1 & 2
What I found was that a magazine that produced under 1/2″ groups on the first batch of 8 magazines did worse on the second batch and vice versa. Of the 16 targets, all groups were 3/4″ or better. Five were pretty close to 1/4″. One magazine that did the worst on the first batch of 8 did the best on the second (must have been the pit stop).

The first 3 targets of each batch of 8 were inside 1/2″–I think due to my being more rested. The magazines that did not shoot inside 1/2″ I re-shot after a rest period and got them inside a 1/2″ (picture not shown so you’ll have to take my word for it).

While shooting may not be physically fatiguing, it’s definitely mentally fatiguing for me. I get what pro golfers call the yips, especially if I’m excited from shooting great groups. If you know any golfers, ask them about the yips. I’ll bet you get shooters’ yips, too.


The targets for each batch are numbered 1-8 and marked with the magazine numbers C1, C2, E1, E2, K1, K2, R1 & R2. The bullseyes on the targets are 1/2″ in diameter.

Notice the strange location of target 8 (K2) on batch 1 (left target). Sorry for this sloppy batch, but I shot 2 warm up targets, then ran out of targets on this page so I aimed for the intersection of the lines formed by the block of four targets (2 practice–target 1 and target 3).

Note magazine R1 in batch 1 (target 5) has bad grouping while batch 2 (target 1) has good grouping. Next note that magazine K1 in batch 1 (target 6) has good grouping while batch 2 (target 5) has bad grouping.

Look at batch 2, target 4. Vertical stringing–that has to be me!

Test results for batch 3
The next day I did a similar test with just one batch of 8 magazines, but with a different pellet (no weighed). Ouch, I had somehow become a worse shot overnight. None of my groupings were as good as the night before. Three targets had fliers that went 2 or 3 rings out from center. Only one group was smaller than 1/2″.

Test results for batch 4
I waited another day and tried the same test but this time with weighed pellets. I didn’t have any radical fliers this time (or maybe they were all radical fliers) but all my groups were still larger than 1/2″.

Wrap up
I then took 2 mags that had the worst groups and shot the same pellets with them. Still got bad groups. Well, you’ve probably guessed what my next test was. Yep, I went back to the H&N Wadcutters in those two mags and started shooting 1/4″-1/2″ groups again. This doesn’t necessarily mean the second brand of pellets are bad. It only means they’re different for this gun or for me. I don’t understand it, but it seems to be so. It could even be psychological if I think brand A is superior and my brain automatically concentrates better.

Conclusion
I believe my bad groupings in this test were due to lack of experience, shooter fatigue, lack of concentration, ill-spaced pit stops and/or pellet dynamics, and not magazine properties. When I gain more experience and find that pellet that is right for me and after my grandkids have broken in their magazines more, I will retry this test if for no other reason than my own amazement and amusement.

Post mortem
After completing my tests I took a close look at the mechanics of how the pellets are loaded into the gun barrel. In the IZH-61 owner’s manual, Figure 1 shows a follower (item #8). It’s a machined rod that is tapered toward the front, the part that goes into the receiver (item #44). The tapered part is about a half-inch long, smaller in diameter than the opening in the back of a pellet and is the part that rams the pellet into the receiver. The smaller rod also has a somewhat pointed tip that contacts the small indentation inside the skirt of the pellet to help guide it. The larger part of the rod is the diameter of the receiver opening. The rod is pushed forward when you cock the gun, and it shoves the pellet about 3/4″ or so into the receiver because about 1/4″ of the larger part of the rod goes in, too, to block any air blowback (I imagine).

It’s my opinion that when the pellet is shoved into the receiver 3/4″ by the rod, there won’t be any influence on the pellet’s orientation from the magazine at its final stopping position. However, I suppose a magazine could be defective enough to damage the pellet skirt in such a way that the movement into the receiver and down the barrel doesn’t straighten it out. In that case, I think it would be easy to visually identify the defect.

You could argue that if a batch of magazines were bought, there’s a chance one or more could be defective. However, at the same time, you could argue that one or more guns would have a defective magazine. I don’t hear this coming from the multitude of IZH-61 owners (yet).

Bottom line
I had a whole lot of fun playing with this issue and fun is why I took up this sport in the first place. As an added bonus, I think I became a somewhat better shooter. I can’t wait to see how a peep site will do on a test like this. Again, whoever it was who mentioned this in the first place, please come up with more thought-provoking ideas for me.

44 thoughts on “IZH-61 magazine test

  1. Chuck,

    Great bolg- a nice read. I have had my IZH-61 for about 18 months which I purchased with extra magazines, four total. Through a similar process, I identified a magazine that always put the first shot about an inch low at ten meters. For a while, I thought it was me, but after some testing, I found one magazine that seemed to load the pellets more consistanly, and has turned out to give me the best groupings. I’ve not come to any scientific conclusions as of yet, but if the pellet gets skewed or cocked slightly because of any misalignment of the magazine to the breech as that pellet is pushed into a .177 breech by a much smaller bolt probe, then accuracy may suffer. Just my 2 cents.

    Merry Christmas to all.

    Kind Regrds,
    Michael in Florida
    Success is not an entitlement.


  2. Good morning Chuck, Thanks for the time and energy you put into this blog. Numbering the magazines a stroke of genius–how the grandkids tell their stuff appart only they know.

    Michael, have I seen some posts by you on TalonAirgun.com?

    Yes, Merry Christmas to one and all!


  3. Great job Chuck and the timing couldn’t have been better. I just ordered a izh61 on Friday and I’m chomping at the bit to try it out. I know that there has been grumblings about the 61 no longer having a metal receiver. BB has mentioned in the blog that while the new version with the plastic receiver is lesser than the old, that it’s still a good deal.
    From reading here I know that both you and Matt61 are very happy with your 61′s.

    Al in CT


  4. First, I’m glad I’m not the only one disappointed in the IZH’s accuracy. I never got terribly good groups with the one I got, generally they are comparable to yours. I can do better with a Shanghai-built QB88 or QB18 (Hammerli 490) with open sights than I can with the ’61 and a scope.

    Second, the QC on the mags are not good. Mine came with really bad ones, I found out by 1) unscrewing the barrel, and 2) loading a clip and cycling the cocking arm 5 times. This let the pellets just fall out of the breech, and I could see that they were getting badly damaged when they were moved from the magazine into the loading port. This was because the holes in the mag were misaligned with the loading port.

    Here’s another wrench in the works for ya – mags can vary one from another, but within any given mag one hole can vary from another. Hole 1 might line up and feed smoothly, hole 2 might destroy the pellet, and so on.

    AND it’s possible that a magazine that works poorly in one gun will work better in another.

    EAA returned my gun with 3 new mags, and they were better than the originals. Not perfect, but much, much better. I went into the mag port with a little ball grinder and beveled the entrance to the loading channel and that seems to have completely fixed it.

    Even now, though, I find the gun hard to shoot well. And to add insult to injury – while having a repeater is fun while the mag is full, overall I found that the time required to load and fire 5 shots is slower with the ’61 than it is with a single-shot breakbarrel.

    BTW – if you wanna shoot the gun single-shot, you can release the bolt and feed the pellets directly into the loading port one-at-a-time with tweezers. This might give you a good baseline of what the gun can before any inaccuracies introduced by poorly made magazines.


  5. Chuck,
    I think you proved the magazines don’t make much of a difference in accuracy unless there’s an obvious defect.

    Don’t be so hard on yourself for loss of focus. I don’t know anyone who could maintain their peak concentration for 80 shots. You did a lot better than I could have.


  6. Chuck,

    Well written guest blog! Very, interesting..

    Magazines seems to be a place where the manufacture cheaps out.. bad move.. smoothness of the advance and not damaging the pellet as it’s loaded seem to be the most important thing.. at least to me..

    Yes other things are important too.. like barrel, trigger and sights.. but what good is a repeater that doesn’t load well.. the best barrel and trigger does no good, if the pellet gets damaged on it’s way into that quality barrel..

    Where are their heads.. up something?

    The same issue happens with the Air Arms S410. Their cheap plastic magazines are not up to the quality of the rest of the gun… and rely on the bolt to finish lining up the mag as it pushes it into the barrel.. The issue is greater with the .22 cal.

    I got an after market high quality mag with the used .22 cal Air Arms S410 I bought.. wow, what a difference. I had thought before I got it, that the advance works were the problem, but now I know it’s the cheap magazines..

    Wayne,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range


  7. Chuck,

    Great Blog. I too have an IZH 61 which I bought with extra magazines. I too had to test each magazine and picked the best. all the magaxines fed properly but it seems that some are better.

    Similar topic… Daisy 853c magazines. I also own an 853c (5 shot repeater) which I bought also with extra magazines…

    But no matter what I tried, all the magazines will fail to index properly the last (5th) pellet.

    Unlike the IZH 61 magazines which is made from hard plastic, the Daisy 853c magazines are made from soft (rubber-like) plastic. I think this may be the reason why these magazines do not index properly.

    Has anyone found a way to solve this 853c index problem? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Right now I can only use the single shot mode with the 853C.

    Thanks and Mwerry Christmas !!!

    Stingray


  8. 953 I shoot single shot with JSB exact extra heavy.

    1077 any clip with RWS hobby. Just reload after 5 to 8 shots to let the airgn warm up or it tends to lose power.

    622x any clip any pellet for plinking.




  9. PCP update:

    I thought maybe the timing would be right to share my updated views on PCP’s.

    My experience was initially reported a couple months ago after only 5 days of ownership, which included just one day that I was able to refill the rifle. Since then I have bought two more PCP’s and sold one.

    As far as specific choices in rifles, that is probably best left to the individual. While it seems only right to report deficiencies, personal preference often weighs in too heavily to pick out right winners.

    Certainly not all will agree, as I suspect Wayne may have considered Christmas cards with an S410 on the front.

    My realization of individual tastes came in the late 70’s or possibly very early ‘80’s. A guy I worked with was excited over the purchase of his first brand new vehicle. After work I went to check it out, a Subaru Brat. Basically, a subcompact car with a truck bed.

    The joy in his face was apparent, so I remarked that it was “unbelievable, really something.” And congratulated him on the purchase, though it was nothing I could remotely embrace. Don, if you’re out there – no offence intended.

    So if we can agree that different folks taste buds are delighted by various foods and that beauty is in the eye of the beholder can we focus on the power source alone?

    Effort:

    As far the work load is concerned, a hand pump is not overly exerting but it is not effortless either. I would place it at less than chopping wood but more than raking leaves for an equal amount of time as needed to fill the rifle.
    I wish I could come up with an exact analogy, but that’s the best I can do.

    In comparison to a Springer it is more convenient in that the effort can be accomplished 100% prior to use. Imagine if you could cock and load your spring rifle 48 times before heading out to the field or barn, certainly not a bad way to go. Less work overall? Maybe not, but a might more handy.

    Also no comparison to a multi –pump pneumatic. They often need 7-10 pumps for every shot to achieve full power. With a PCP I have found 2 to 3 pumps per shot are all I need to invest in the rifle. Think about it like money in the bank that you take out as needed.

    So if you feel capable of raking leaves and splitting a few logs for 5-7 minutes you should be ok.

    Shoot-ability,

    This is another area the nod goes to the PCP’s. Anyone who has ever shot a multi-pump or CO2 Daisy, Crosman, Benjamin, and so on has already experienced this. The rifle just lies their. You can shoot off-hand or with a rest and it doesn’t ask for any special treatment. Accuracy is easy to come by also.

    Consistency,

    This was one of my big concerns going in. If you limit yourself to just the sweet spot, things are ok. The Disco was good for about 20 shots, the Webley 30, and the FX 48.

    The temptation to shoot past those ideals is pretty strong, and that is when POI starts to change. It is an annoyance brought on by the shooter, but annoying none the less. I decided to run an extra two full magazines (32 shots) in the Whisper the other night and while on the last mag needed to hold over about a half to a full mil dot. I was shooting at both half and quarter inch dots. I managed hits on all of them, but not in the center.

    I pulled out my HW97 and promptly put pellets in all the dots on the money. I have to give the nod here to the spring guns. Nothing to check, track, or factor. The HW will shoot to point of aim come heck or high water.

    Others:

    Altitude, cold weather, noise, cost, etc all come into play also. But I’m tired of typing.

    Conclusion,

    I enjoy the PCP’s, and they have earned a permanent place in my line up. They have not displaced all my Springer’s; I have not been fully converted. Sometimes, I just want a couple of quick shots instead of a full session and the PCP’s don’t budge from the rack.

    They are just such different animals, like cats and dogs.

    You need both.

    Oh yeah, after Christmas I may need to add CO2 to list.

    It could be my Hamster.

    Volvo

    Ps : Feel free to blast away……..


  10. FROM A GOOD FREIND IN THE UK (currently moving to Autrailia) on the Reviewcentre.com Air Rifle Forum writes:

    Oooh; Ooooh, decisions Decisions.

    "So many choices!?"

    Even more sleepless nights spent tossing and turning; endlessly pontificating all the variables That`s the bit I can`t stand.

    The only satisfactory answer IS `of course`; to have your own personal gun caddy.
    Yep; you could wonder round your permission all day long with him faithfully trudging behind you. Waiting to offer advice on which combo best to use on any opportunity that should pop up in your travels

    Personally I`d just order him around and To Hell with his pertinent remarks!!

    Just imagine; A bog standard 3/4 sized rabbit lollops out at precisely your 30 yd second zero.
    You could say; "Ahh Jeeves, one of my Air Arm PCPs I think."

    "Excellent choice sir. May I suggest the S410 carbine with the Hawke 3 – 9 x 40 MAP scope sir?"

    "No I`m feeling fruity today, I`ll have my new S400 rifle with the no frills Leapers 6 x 40.

    The shot is a formality and Jeeves squeezes and paunches Bugs while you warm your coccles with a nice cup of Bovril.

    Then; Out of the corner of your eye you spot a `North American Tree Rat` skitting through the ground litter at 50 yds!! "Quick man! The Theoben".
    Jeeves hastily assembles a Harris bipod onto the 25 ftlb FAC Rapid and with only a little twiddling the second step on the NATO rectiled Nikko Stirling Diamond 10 – 50 x 60 Sportsman settles on your quarries brain box. The result: Chuck gets it straight between the eyes the island is much better off and all the Red Squirrels cheer loudly from the tree tops.

    Sadly the dusk is closing in fast and thoughts are given to Logun Lamps a warm missus and luminated erectiles………

    Just when we finally decide to head for home a flutter in the bushes catches our attention. We`re in luck. A Pheasant is roosting up for the night and as Jeeves has`nt been eating his carrots so I tell him it`s probably just a BIG Pigeon.

    Without a second thought I demand my trusty old Weihrauch HW77K with a Swatforce Red-Dot on top. Jeevsey is told to say nought about what he sees next and Mr P gets a really rude awakening `Straight up the Arris` at 15yds.

    Needless to say ALL the above air rifles are of .22 calibre and loaded with H & N Field Target Tropheys.

    Plus in the `Worst Case Scenario` situation (ie Jeeves getting arrested by the gamekeeper for appalling Quarry Identification skills) You could just get a :-

    WEBLEY RAIDER 10

    Marry it with a Hawke NE- 4 – 16 x 50 AO Centre IR.
    Bolt on a Tactical Laser / Xenon light Combo Kit
    and be able to cope quite effortlessly with ALL of the above scenarios.

    Good luck

    Druid 66



  11. Chuck,
    Great guest blog. I’ve suspected those plastic mags could not be real accurate. If you understand how plastic parts are made it is easy to see how difficult it is to maintain exact design criteria.

    Vince,
    They sell speed loaders for the mags.

    Merry Christmas,
    DB



  12. I have ten mags for the 1088 and all of them seem to be good – never paid much attention to them, which is probably a good sign. Plus one for Crosman.

    On the built in PCP pump, I was thinking about a high pressure, multi-stage type pump. From what I saw in Roanoke, I didn’t think cost would be a problem. I had not considered weight.


  13. Volvo, Thanks for your observations, comments and conclusions. Did Wayne really say cheap magazines and S410 in the same sentence or did my AOL account have a malfunction?

    Ajevnom, thank Druid 66 for me what a sense of humor from one warped mind to another. Perhaps he’d join us from time to time if you invited him.


  14. Thanks Chuck, Volvo and all for you input. Chuck, I like the pics of your targets. Really helps when describing what you were doing.

    It’s so hard to find the perfect gun sometimes that will fit every situation and every air gun has a few things you can experiment on and try to get the most out of it.

    Can’t they devise a simple way to put a breakbarrel action on a slide with springs on both ends to dampen the recoil or perhaps perfect the gas ram more to be more smoother?

    Oh well, by the time you add it all up, the Disco alway seems to be there waiting. If your going to buy just one air rifle I guess PCP is probably the way to go. As for the airgun addicts, there will never be enough.


  15. Volvo,

    Thanks for the pcp overview. I’m known for making fast decisions and sometimes even being right. Defining my reluctance in diving into the pcp world has been difficult. Your 30 day reaction to pcp’s shook something in me.

    It’s not effort. The effort is justifiable in pcp’s vs. springers and even somewhat avoidable with a scuba tank.

    I think it’s more the mental picture I have of carrying gauges, hoses, tanks, adapters, chrony, etc. etc. From a firearm background I’d take a box of ammo, glasses and the gun and shoot. Same with the springers.

    You’ve helped me run down this mental blockade.

    I haven’t been on this site as much as I would like. I didn’t know you bought a webley pcp?! Which one? Do you like it as much as the FX Whisper?

    kevin



  16. Chuck,
    Great groups. Are the mags auto indexing? Does that IZH gave much recoil or vibration. I’ve heard a lot of good about them, but It’s like buying a foreign (I have a really bad 2008 Toyota Solara convertible) car, I don’t fully understand the quality.
    Shadow express dude


  17. ajvenom,
    which area of australia are you moving to? I spent a year in the eastern coast. I had to take a plan to work and had to take all the damn snakes in my house (no air rifles or fire arms in my providence) to a witch doctor called the “Snake Man”. Silly business. Good luck, why did you have to sell you webly raider 10.
    Shadow express dude


  18. I’m looking int buying my first pellet rifle.It would need to be quiet and accurate.I’m not too worried about high power.I don’t want a co2 gun.Single or multi pump would be okay.I used to compete in IHMSA 200 meter handgun, and NRA 100 meter hunter pistol.My eyes aren’t so good anymore (now 55 years old).I’d like a scopeable gun.I also don’t want to spend a bunch of money on the gun.I’m considering the Daisy 22 G,Daisy 953,Daisy 901,Crossman 2100B,maybe the Remington Airmaster 77, and now the IZH 61.What are your thoughts on these rifles?
    Can the IZH be loaded singly-one pellet at a time?Or must one use the magazines? Also, in reading up on the IZH, I raed somewhere that EEA wasn’t going to be the US importer or markerter anymore, and that they would be under Remington. What ever happened to that situation? I don’t see these guns on Remingtons website in their lineup.

    Thanks, Jon in Puyallup, Wa. USA


  19. Jon in Puyallup,

    Welcome to the forum. If B.B. doesn’t have the answer Wayne Burns will.

    Wish I could help but I’m not familiar with the guns you’ve narrowed your list down to.

    You’ve entered a chasm where there is a wealth of information.

    kevin


  20. Jon, after having one I wouldn’t go for the IZH. Too difficult to really get consistent, a bit goofy to try to scope properly, and an inefficient powerplant with no effective breech sealing and a tortuous air transfer path. There is no normal single-shot operation with it, although you can use the awkward technique of fitting pellets one-at-a-time with tweezers. And EAA service is a bit spotty. But if you want to try one, mine’s on gunbroker with a starting bid of $50 – and nobody’s nibbling.

    I’d be surprised if you had patience with a multi-pump – they require so much more work from the shooter than a normal spring-air gun of comparable power. They are easier to shoot well – but if you get a ‘BB/pellet’ dual-ammo gun accuracy might be compromised by the dual-purpose barrel.

    What sort of range are you looking to shoot? And I assume you’re target only – no hunting. And what about price? Are you looking to keep it at around $100?


  21. Volvo,

    Great overview! The perfectly balanced approach.

    It’s a personal choice, if one wants to deal with valve lock and loss of POI on the first shots and later as pressure go down.

    If one is hunting and doesn’t want to go back to the car for a refill, then 40 extra shots gained with valve lock and loss of POI, on both sides of the “sweet spot” is a trade off vs going back for the refill.. knowing your gun and where to aim when, can be difficult, but maybe worth it for some of us..

    Anyway, I’ve switched to the Mac I USFT in my practice sessions. I finally can do better in the FT sitting position with the USFT, than the .177 side lever Air Arms S410. So Randy is shooting it mostly now. I won’t be talking it up unless asked.. sorry if I’ve overdone it.

    And I did mention the magazine problems a few times before this..

    Merry Christmas Everyone.

    Wayne


  22. Ajvenom,

    Have you taken your 622 apart?

    I started to take mine apart to work on it and have two problems so far. 1- The index pawl popped forward and 2, the clip extractor button came out. Do you have any instructions or hints about re-assembling the 622 properly?

    Thanks,
    .22 multi-shot



  23. Jon in Puyallup,
    Sounds like we should be asking you for advice… well me anyway.

    22SG is a nice low power multi pump hunter.
    2100B is OK hunter at close range on rabbits and greys
    953 great for punching paper at 10 meters and staying on a budget
    901 on par with 2100B
    77 on par with 2100B

    22SG is the only one with a wood stock.

    From your list I’d get the 22SG for hunting and the 953 for paper punching. Depends on what you intend to do with the gun.


  24. I’ll try to answer some of the questions raised by my blog. First though, I enjoy reading the comments you people added in here. Seems to be some budding authors in the mix.

    OK, right off I have to say: Dang! I knew I should have tested nine magazines:) What would be great would be for me to include Michael’s bad mag in another blind test with my eight and see if I can identify it.

    The mag advances automatically as you cock the gun. You just have to be careful not to shoot after the last pellet because there is no warning that your done. I look for three holes in the mag sticking out. If I see three I know not to cock again. (warning note: there is no safety on this gun so supervision is paramount) The gun is light. I notice some but not much vibration or recoil, but (B.B. look away) I like to hold it snug. If I use the artillery hold the muzzle jumps up pretty good, I think because it is so light, so there is recoil that way. I need more time to get used to the artillery hold.

    I got the IZH-61 for the following reasons: I live in Illinois so I can’t get a gun over 500 fps through the mail, B.B. highly recommended it and that probably swayed me from any other gun, I thought it looked kinda cool and thought my grand kids would think I was cool if I had one, so I did and they did and we’re all happy.

    I would not want to load the IZH-61 singly. As Vince has said, you’d need tweezers to do it. So, I’d say yes the magazine is a must. The gun is quiet by my standards. I think it will be more accurate as I learn more how to shoot and practice. It’s a fun plinker. I wouldn’t use it to hunt furry creatures I’d just end up torturing the critter.

    I’m new to this sport so I don’t know anything about any other guns mentioned but B.B is the expert.

    I have a multi pump Crosman Powermaster 760. I don’t like to pump it xx times. I love one pump guns.

    I have scoped my gun as mentioned in my blog. Works great for me.

    I am very happy with my IZH-61. I bought three more for my grand kids.

    As I said earlier, I’m a new shooter so I’m not too disappointed in my groups…yet. I know I can do better and when I’m ready to spend a lot more money I know I can get a much better gun (say…TX200). But this 61 gun is fun to shoot and looks cool (subjective comment).

    I have a single shot, break barrel Ruger Air Hawk but I haven’t tried to time it against my 61. Hmmmm….thanks for giving me something interesting to research.
    I do know that when my grand kids are shooting and I’m preloading magazines for them we can go through a tin in no time. Also, I’m a lot less tired after 80 shots through the 61 than through the Ruger. I don’t think I’d even attempt 80 shots through a single shot break barrel.

    Thanks for the words of encouragement from all of you. Let me know when you’re in town. I’ll buy you all a b**r.

    -Chuck


  25. Lots of very informative info here. I’m mostly interested in paper punching, or shooting a set of mini silhouette targets I picked up some time ago. I may, on occasion, want to try some shooting at longer than 25 yards, but mostly less.The only possibility I can see for me to be shooting a critter, is if some rats decide to start hanging out at my wife’s compost pile. But so far haven’t seen any.
    Sounds like, from what I’ve read, the Daisy 953 might do me fine.Accuracy is my thing.I’ve spent many hours handloading handgun, and rifle cartridges for accuracy.Experimenting with different powders and charges,primers etc.Lots of bullets flew out of my old Thompson Center Contenders.My 200 meter reliable was a 10 inch TC barrel in 30-30.The 200 meter rams weigh 55 pounds, so you must use a stout caliber and load.Only one time did I get a good hit on a 200 meter ram with my 30-30 barrel that didn’t knock it over (only knockdowns count as a point).And that barrel and load was a tackdriver.
    I’ve been out of shooting for some years now, and see an air rifle as a means of getting me back into it without having to load all the gear up, join a gun club etc,etc.Field Target, and airgun silhouette competition look fun too, and one wouldn’t need 200+ meters to hold a match.
    I am trying to keep the price down for the actual gun to about $100.00, and could later add a scope and mount.Moneys tight right now, and I hope to make a good choice for myself.Also, maybe I could get my wide into shooting an airgun.She doesn’t like the loud powder guns.
    The reason I’m kind of down on co2 guns, is first, I don’t like being dependant on the cartridges.Seems like a co2 gun without the magic cartridge becomes a paper weight.Second, I’ve heard that as the gas in the cartridge gets lower, your velocity may vary, and that equals the distinct possibilty that your group will widen.Also, as far as I know, you can’t recycle the cartridges.Thats too bad.Also, the tendancy to want to rush off a bunch of shots with a co2 repeater doesn’t seem conducive to squeezing the most accuracy from your gun.I’m not a prude about accuracy. I also used to shoot a very fun form of bowling pin competetion, where speed/accuracy/power were all important factors. And, I bet using some form of repeating air pistol at shorter ranges to simulate that type of match would be a riot! But for now, I’m just looking for an accurate air rifle.Not for competetion, just to see if I can still shoot worth a darn.
    And, I’ve been hanging out at Pyramid Airgun Mall lately a bunch.That’s where I intend to buy.

    Thanks for the comments too,
    Jon in Puyallup, Wa.


  26. Jon,

    Welcome to the blog! I hope we can provide what you need to get the most from airgunning.

    I used to be stationed at Ft. Lewis, so I am familiar with your neck of the woods. Every month I had a table at the Renton gun show, if that’s still happening?

    My pick for your next gun is the Daisy 953. There are many handloaders reading this blog and I think they will agree that the 953 is the simplest approach if accuracy is your primary concern (as well as your budget). The IZH 61 is a great rifle, but the magazine takes getting used to and the possibility of a dry-fire is always present.

    No matter what gun you buy, ammo is of paramount importance. So get some RWS Hobby pellets and some Gamo Match wadcutters. The 953 is a target rifle, primarily, so use wadcutters for the best performance on paper.

    There are also a few 1911 shooters here, so your pin background will be of interest. What did you shoot — 9-pin or 5-pin?

    B.B.


  27. Jon,

    I haven’t heard the one about EAA dropping IZH airguns, but I will look into it at the SHOT Show next month. You hear a lot of rumors in this industry and most turn out to be unfounded.

    B.B.


  28. Jon, the CZ634 or the RWS93 sounds like they might have been right up your alley. Both are very accurate, easy to shoot, and have more power than the guns you mentioned – which would be useful for those occasional rats or longer range shooting. It’s a shame that the CZ recently had a price boost from about $130 to about $200, and the RWS has been discontinued (although used or refurbished ones are sometimes available directly from Umarex)

    I’m wondering if the ’61 really has the power you’d want for rat-plugging or longer range. The design of the gun is such that there’s no positive breech seal, and if the plastic receiver loading channel is a bit on the loose side (or the loading probe is a bit small) you get lots of air leakage and substantially less than the advertised velocity. Mine does upper 300′s with Gamo Match pellets, and according to EAA this is normal. I even had a Crosman Premier pellet not make it out of the barrel, and I’ve read other complaints of a similar nature about this gun. One final observation – the rear sight on this one is further back than the typical breakbarrel (even with the stock all the way back), and my shootin’ eye ain’t happy about that. The rear sight gets too fuzzy.

    I wonder if you might do well to consider the Hammerli 490. If you get a good one (and buying from pyramyd is good insurance) you’d be getting a full-sized, 6lb rifle with very easy cocking, low recoil, and easy to shoot well. It also has a traditional sporter stock. The down side is that it might need a bit of work – particularly tightening up of the breech pivot – but that’s not hard to do.


  29. “I used to be stationed at Ft. Lewis”

    Hi B.B.

    When were you at Lewis? I took AIT there the beginning of 1969. It was my departure and re-arrival point in 1970, for when I went to Vietnam. I revisited in 1980; my barracks had been converted to an electronic war sim site. Over by the med facility, someone had painted a sign that read: CAUITION–TROOP CROSSING.

    I’m certain we airgunners could all use more cauition in our lives….

    Joe B.


  30. Joe B.,

    I was at Ft. Lewis from 1970-1972, with the 3rd Cav. I moved with them down to Ft. Bliss, TX and stayder bthere until 74, when I rotated to Germany.

    While at Ft. Lewis I loved shooting my own guns on the southern part of the reserve. Also, I could run any range that wasn’t being used by getting a range flag from Range Control. Those were the days!

    B.B.


  31. Hey, B.B.

    The one thing I loved most about Ft. Lewis was Mt. Ranier. I’d be exhausted and look up at its snow-covered peaks and feel instantly grateful and refreshed.

    Merry Christmas!

    -Joe B.


  32. BB, I took your recomdation and bought this great little “Black Russian”. I like it so well I later located a Model 60 with the steel receiver which I like so much better. I later bought a Izzy model 46m. Two questions, One, How did you scope it and what mount did you use. 2) I have heard where these guns have been modified with a R7 spring. Ever hear of this.
    Thanks
    Dave



  33. BB
    I must have read the wrong post. I thought you said you scooped the 61 Baikal with a leapers bug buster.
    I would really like you to test that new Peep sight from Kevin on the 61. That looks like it might make a great combo.
    Thanks so much for all your great post. And am looking forward to all your advice and info in the coming year.

    Dave


  34. Dave,

    I MAY have scoped the 61 with a Bug Buster. I certainly have heard others talking about it on this blog.

    Why don’t you post your question on the current blog so everyone will see it and have the chance to answer? There are 1,000 posts and very few people look at more than the last two or three.

    B.B.


  35. Dave,
    If you’re still reading this blog…. I mentioned scoping my 61 in my blog. I will also look for your question in the “current” blog where B.B. suggested you post your question again.

    I scoped it with a 6X Bug Buster because it was short and this gun needs a short scope. The 4X Bug Buster would have worked also but I thought the 6X would let me see better. In order to mount it I bought a Leapers 11mm to Weaver Adapter Item#: MNT-PMTOWL[PY-A-2401].

    This also allowed the scope to be mounted more forward on the gun to put the scope at a better position for eye relief. The mount hangs over the magazine release but you can get a finger in between to press it.

    -Chuck


  36. Chuck, thanks for the info on mounting the bug buster scope. My favorite. In fact I just received two more 6x for Christmas. Love my 61. If you ever get the chance try and pickup a model 60 with steel receiver and single shot. You will love it.
    thanks

    Dave



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