The Crosman Silhouette PCP pistol – Part 4

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

Okay, today would normally be accuracy day for this pistol, and I will shoot it for accuracy, but today is going to serve a double purpose. You see, the Crosman Silhouette PCP pistol is shipped without a rear sight because of all the possibilities customers will have for the airgun. Some may want to use it for silhouette competition, but a lot more are going to have other uses for it. So, no rear sight.

However, Crosman sent me a peep sight to test with the pistol, and therein lies the extra fun in today’s report. Because last week when I was struggling to turn a 1980s-rear peep into something I could use with the Bronco, I had on my desk the probable answer to our problem all along. This new Crosman sight that I paid no attention to before now appears to be the very Williams rear sight that one of our readers (I believe it was Randy in VA) suggested we test with the Bronco. So, after today’s evaluation, I’ll move this sight over to the Bronco and test it there for you.


New Williams peep from Crosman shows a LOT of promise.

Today, we’re concentrating on the Crosman Silhouette PCP, which is a single-shot .177 caliber pneumatic target pistol designed for shooting airgun silhouette. The sight elevation had to be cranked way up to clear the bolt handle on the left side, but it was easy to do and worked fine. The the dovetail adjusting screws are run in tight and the dovetail locking screw sucks everything together.


Sight fits the pistol great and adjusts the way I like it–with detents!

This sight has click detents, something my Beeman Sport Aperture doesn’t have. That makes adjusting a breeze.

7.9-grain Premiers
Sight-in started at 10 feet and I was on in four shots. Then out to 10 meters, where the elevation was close but the shots were to the right. I shot a group of Crosman 7.9-grain Premiers that looked pretty good, though I knew I could do better. All shooting was rested and I was wearing my bifocals. Since this was with iron sights, I concentrated on the front sight and let the target and aperture go fuzzy. The aperture in this sight is huge, no doubt because this is a pistol. Even so, it seemed to work well.


The 10-meter sight-in target. Group in the white at the right was the first group. Then the sights were adjusted to the left, resulting in the shot at 4 o’clock in the black. More left gave me the group in the center of the bull. Shot low at 6 o’clock is part of that group.

JSB Exacts
Then I switched to JSB Exacts and what a difference! I got the kind of precision usually only gotten with a scope!


Okay, I’m happy with this quarter-inch five-shot group at 10 meters. Five 10.3-grain JSB Exacts.


Five Beeman Kodiaks gave me this group.


A final group of five JSBs.

Firing behavior
When the gun discharges, there’s a definite torquing to the right. It happened on every shot and was enough movement to be disconcerting, though the targets don’t show anything.

The rough, crude trigger makes me long for something more sophisticated. When I hold on target as with a 10-meter pistol, I don’t like a long creepy second stage, but that’s what the gun has. Owners should plan to address this issue.

The noise is incredibly low for a PCP. Granted, this isn’t a powerful gun, but I was still running it at 500 f.p.s. from the last test and thought it was very quiet. Not as quiet as a 1077, but less than a medium spring rifle.

One of our reraders said that I never say nasty things about airguns. Well, that’s true. It’s not my style. So, for his benefit I will say that I am about to gush all over this airgun, so stand back, Jack. This is a natural shooter–that rare and precious gun that shoots exactly where you aim every time. I knew that last summer when I shot the prototype Ray Apelles brought to his field target episode with American Airgunner. I still think so.

This sight is a winner, too. I’ll mount it on the Bronco, and we’ll have a go there. Pyramyd Air stands ready to order this sight for us, and I think it’s a good idea.

117 Responses to “The Crosman Silhouette PCP pistol – Part 4”

  • ajvenom Says:

    Way to go BB, you've completed that mission in record time….

    The spirit of Peter Graves is strong in you…

    as a tribute to Peter Graves a clip from a real guitar hero….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IXa2pNGVj8&feature=fvw

  • Anonymous Says:

    For anyone who wants to mount an aperture sight and is uncertain if it will function with the existing front sight (as discussed on this blog recently), the Brownell's cataloge for 2010 on p. 234 has a clear procedure and formula for figuring the relationship of the height of the front sight to the rear sight.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    ajvenom,

    That kid is incredible! Another Roy Clark in the making.

    B.B.

  • ajvenom Says:

    I suppose they don't have a kit to convert standard william over peep? I put a piece of electrical tape on mine and made a square peep…lol..but haven't tested it.

    Oh well, I have a nice peep set…I'll just keep my standard for airguns with posts on front.

    Thanks for the tip again Anonymous.

  • ajvenom Says:

    Roy Clark….a man of many talents

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k0uPCTChpg&feature=related

    not just a guitar hero…but a legend.

  • ajvenom Says:

    OK Ok Ok

    I won't clog your blog…

    but one last one before I go…

    a repost I know….

    You've all heard of dueling banjos…..

    well….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThJnARtxMUY

  • ajvenom Says:

    that wasn't it …he he he

  • Anonymous Says:

    Do the hpa cylinders on benjamin pcp's need to be inspected like scuba tanks?

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    BB, AJ

    As long as we're on the subject…
    For pure guitar brillance, Leo Kottke should be mentioned. Ladies and Gentlemen, enjoy:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tew_fIhz3eY

    This is a very old performance, but one of the most aggressive of this song I have heard. Poor guy gave himself carpal tunnel syndrome to give this to us. God Bless him. There are more sedate performances of his on the site as well. His song 'Little Shoes' also performed as 'Strange' with Mike Gordon's help is probably my all time favorite song.

    I assume you are familiar with David Grisman?

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB: I installed that sight on my Crosman Quest a couple years ago. I robbed it from one of my RF's. I found that it would walk right off the springers without some kind of stop. What I ended up doing on the Quest, was to spot and drill a hole in the base to line up with the scope stop hole in the Quest's receiver tube. I also cut off that damn fiber optic front sight. When are AG sight designers going to realize we shoot at tiny stuff,not 10"plates at 25 yards? Then hand filed a 3/8" dovetail in the existing plastic factory ramp, and installed a 17A Lyman front globe sight in it's place. I then used epoxy to reinforce the ramp area, as there is little material to work with due to the slots in it. So far this combination has been going good with no problems through five or six tins of pellets now. Take care, Robert

  • Mike Says:

    BB, Would that Williams site work on the Diana 52? Do they list a model number?

    Thanks.

    Mike

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    AJ

    I just realized this morning that all my airguns are missing. It's the darnedest thing… Weird.

    BB

    Please don't gush too much. I can't afford it right now. Gimme a couple of months. The 1377 does not like the looks of this.

  • Frank B Says:

    Good morning all,That was a nice way to start the day.A smokin' group from a large peep and some great pickin'!The standard by which all things guitar are measured for me is a local man you may have heard of…..Doc Watson.I'm not good with links but "Black mountain rag" on Youtube is well…..awesome!!

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    The requirement for periodic testing and inspection of a pressure vessel is for all vessels with an outer diameter greater than two inches.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Mike,

    This is the lowest peep I have seen, so the answer is probably yes. Contact Crosman for now.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Thanks B.B

  • derrick38 Says:

    BB,
    I think the trigger on the Crosman Silhouette is actually a single stage. The quick fix it to replace the spring bearing against the sear with something made from thinner wire. Polishing the edges of the sear and the trigger at the contact points then a dab of grease will get rid of the grittiness. Of course, this also works for all the Crosman 22XX and 13XX guns. Some shooters just cut a coil or two off the spring to lower the pull weight.

  • kevin Says:

    B.B.,

    You're spoiled by those fine triggers on your match pistols.

    Since you're in a peep sight mood lately…have you seen the peep sights that are being mounted on airguns for the Quigley Bucket challenge? Pretty reasonable and very effective:

    http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=14&subId=167&styleId=770&partNum=RS-CREED-3-WE&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1&as=1

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/581291/message/1268272697/Yo+Tony

    kevin

  • Anonymous Says:

    Ajveom: If you have another Williams receiver sight with the peep assembly, you could slide it into the base on your open sight version. It should fit fine. Williams could also be contacted for the part. Robert

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB,
    How do you use a peep sight on a pistol? The gun is ± 18" from your eye and a peep sight has to be very close to your eye? what am I missing?
    MCA

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Kevin,

    Yep. Those sights are the ticket!

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    MCA,

    Says who the sights are 18 inches from your eye? Not if you don't make them be.

    However, the hole in this peep works at arm's length, which is about 22 inches for me. A 1903 Springfield peep sight is a good 8 inches from the shooter's eye and it works well. Try it sometime.

    B,B.

  • Randy-in-VA Says:

    BB – That was Jay in VA. I guess after 300+ posts on Friday's blog, you lose track of who's who.

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    Frank B

    Doc. Watson. Rules. Best when served with a side of Flatt and Scruggs.

    I bought a Daisy wire stock reproduction from the Museum not that long ago and in a rare fit of brilliance convinced the wife it would be a good idea from a financial standpoint seeing as how the value would go up.

    Mine is number 814, out of 1000. I thought that they would be nearly out by now. What did you say yours was numbered?

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Slinging Lead,

    Mine is 517. There are 1,000 total, and you did make a wise investment. A year from now it will be worth twice what you paid.

    B.B.

  • Jewish Marksman Says:

    BB-
    Does this pistol have potential as a youth (or senior) entry into 10m competition? Surely someone will get that trigger crispy.

    Will the position of the cocking bolt on the left interfere with (potential) after-market target grips with a prominent thumb rest?

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Jewish Marksman,

    You could use this pistol in 10-meter competition but it would put you at an extreme disadvantage. It's not only the trigger–the weight and grip configuration is all wrong. It would be like skiing on barrel staves.

    B.B.

  • KidAgain Says:

    BB, good post. I've been looking into a good open sight. this one looks like a good one.

    ajvenom, killer links, man. There's some real classic stuff there.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Wow, newfound respect this weekend for Umarex pistols, especially my CP99 and my friends Colt.
    John (the friend) is an IPSC shooter who uses a Kimber .45.
    He purchased his Umarex Colt after trying my CP99, feeling that it would be good practice.
    So this weekend, which was sunny and windless had us out at my shooting spot to try his skills (and mine).
    He brought out a set of regulation IPSC targets (the one with 4 of those weird diamond shaped torso with the different point zones).
    He had the proper fastdraw holster, as per IPSC regs and he shot at 10 and 25 yards (the 25 yards was the surprising one), and shooting fast draw (as per IPSC, with 2 shots per target). Every shot was in the 'A' zone…even at 25 yards.
    Though I was much slower than he (I've neither had IPSC training or the proper holster) I was in the 'A' zone with my CP99 80% of the time.
    It was the 25 yard shots that surprised me…as long as the CO2 cylinder was reasonably fresh both guns were very accurate at this range.
    CowBoyStar Dad

  • Anonymous Says:

    Cowboy Star Dad

    re Umarex / Walther Pistols

    Not surprising to hear about the accuracy of the Umarex Colt pistol. I have the Smith & Wesson model from Walther and it is extremely accurate up through about 40 shots on the 12 gram Co2 cylinder.

    The pistol has two barrels, 4" and 6" and I can change between them with no issues of accuracy and only a slight change in elevation during aiming. The hard case is a nice piece of work too, with cut-outs for extra mags, Co2 cartridges, cleaning rod and pellets etc.

    They are pricey pistols but… the quality and accuracy is unmatched in a "casual" Co2 pistol.

    The down-side of these pistols is… you may want to own them all!

    Brian in Idaho

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    FrankB,
    Doc Watson? You must have never heard of Chet Atkins:).

    Do you have the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band "May the Circle be Unbroken"? Doc is on there. For young hippies they managed to extract/facilitate some of the best performances ever out of the old school performers. There's a lot of Jimmy Martin on there, which is OK by me, he's one of my favorites, but its an acquired taste — never heard anyone else who can make a CD player sound like an AM radio:). The Merle Travis track, "Dark as a Dungeon" is my favorite of the whole thing, if I had to choose.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Vince,

    I'm having a long-distance discussion with a PA tech about how a Nitro Piston fits into a spring gun. I say that the factory piston has to be removed to install the Nitro Piston and he is telling me that it stays in the gun. Can you help me understand this?

    B.B.

  • kevin Says:

    You can't talk about great guitarists without mention of Andres Segovia.

    kevin

  • CJr Says:

    What an inspiring way to start the week! Thanks for all the links guys.
    Why can some people do that and not me?! Eh? We're all human. what's wrong?

    -Chuck

  • Anonymous Says:

    Anyone have experience or thoughts about using a Crosman B272 4-Pc Intermount on a Benjamin EB22? Ideas for selecting a good pistol scope suited for the EB22?

    Thanks.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Anonymous
    Re EB 22 Scope & Mount

    I have used the Benji mount. It's ok and is the only option for that pistol.

    Any decent pistol scope will work just fine since there is little if any recoil in the EB 22.

    For me, I dis-liked the extra weight and bulk of the scoped pistol. I ended up putting a fiber optic sight from a shotgun on the front blade instead.

    Brian in Idaho

  • Anonymous Says:

    B.B.

    Nice shooting. Kind of surprising that a high-quality pcp has a poor trigger when that's so important for target shooting. CowboyStar Dad, I agree about Umarex pistols. My CPSport can be phenomenally accurate if I manage the double-action trigger properly.

    Slinging Lead, thanks for the offer. The library blog is: http://laucassembly.blogspot.com/.

    All, with the second weekend of massive comments, I've been moved to apply the exponential model of growth to forecast the future. The exponential model is based on the function e^x read "e to the x power" where e is Euler's number of approximately 2.14. The key feature of the exponential function is that it is always equal to its rate of change. Graphically, this looks like a function that starts slowly then rapidly increases its value. Increasing rate of change corresponds to the rate of reproduction in populations. We know all about this in the real world…. How do we interpret the reproduction of comments? Interest is surely key. Borrowing from genetics we know that diversity is important for active perpetuation of a healthy population.

    But the exponential function goes off to infinity. Where will this end? This is one of the disturbing implications of overpopulation growth models. Finite resources will run out. In blog terms, as the comment population increases, resources in times of time and space and ready access to other individuals will diminish. According to the model, threshold points exist after which the population collapses–in some cases totally like Easter Island and the ancient Mayans. Or the ecosystems will alter radically to find a new equilibrium.

    If you're taking this seriously, the joke is on you…:-)

    I've put the finishing touches on my new gun design. Superstiff chrome silicon spring for magnum power and durability. 2000 fps with Gammo Raptors. Smaller torsional chrome silicon counter spring for the cocking lever so that it can be operated with one finger. Choked barrel. High quality walnut stock in a Monte Carlo design. Weaver rail. Post front sight with blade rear sight adjustable for elevation and windage. Will hold quarter inch groups at 50 yards. Retail price $200. Named the Gladius!

    Here is a shooting sport that is truly bizarre:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRLCh0Re_LA&feature=related

    From the viewpoint of shooting skill, I wonder what is the point. But it's quite a technical achievement I suppose; you can't argue with that group size. It looks more akin to rocket science than shooting.

    Matt61

  • Anonymous Says:

    For the Gladius, I forgot the RWS 54 anti-recoil device and the Rekord trigger. :-)

    Matt61

  • Volvo Says:

    Matt61,

    Video would have been better if it was at 500 meters; as it was a stock .222 could do that. I did however find the folks I’d like to hire for my CCW class.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpFDHO-tqUY&feature=fvw

    First episode of the Pacific was on last night, did you see it? I was hoping for more flame throwers – but it still has time.

  • AlanL Says:

    B.B.,

    I have not yet removed my brand new RWS Model 52 from its factory carton. I have instead been playing with the new .22 RWS 350. You are right: it does appear to be very hold sensitive. I can't seem to figure out if the adjustment of the open sights is the problem, or me. I think me. So far I've only shot free hand standing, and sitting, with my left elbow straight up and down anchored against my belly. I am doing rather poorly at 20 and 25 yards. I am using an open palm technique for the forearm and my right thumb alongside the wrist, not across it. I am also right handed and left eye dominant, so I am squinting with my weak right eye, and keeping my strong left eye tightly closed. And my darn trifocals bother me. I still have to master your zen-like state of focus with only the front post sharp and the rear notch and target fuzzy. I despair.

    Next I will try resting the forearm on the monkey bags on a stand. Thereafter I will scope it and see if this rifle is beyond my skill or if I can master it.

    I am convinced PA's cocking effort information in the specs for this rifle is wrong. The cocking effort is far greater than 33 pounds. Can you recommend a good simple way to test this?

    -AlanL

  • Edith Gaylord Says:

    AlanL,

    The cocking effort shown on the Pyramyd Air website comes from Umarex's 2010 catalog. It could be that's the effort when it's broken in. How many shots do you have on your 350? Less than 500? If so, please let me know if you still think 33 lbs. is too light after a 500-shot break-in.

    Anyone else have a broken-in 350? If so, let me know if you think 33 lbs. is about right or too low.

    Edith

  • Anonymous Says:

    Thank you Brian in Idaho.
    I have a hard time focusing on the front blade. I'll try a fiber optic.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    AlanL,

    Use an old spring-loaded bathroom scale. Place the muzzle in the center of the scale and bear down on the stock until the rifle cocks. You can read the effort on the scale.

    B.B.

  • AlanL Says:

    B.B,

    Now that Umarex is discontinuing the RWS 52 in USA, I am wondering if I should leave it alone. I have not yet opened the RWS carton for it. I imagine the rifle comes bagged in a plastic bag and styrofoam blocks like the 54 and 350 did. Is this packing suitable to preserve the rifle for long term storage? I am torn: remove it and play with it, or keep it NIB for future appreciation. I have my 54 which I enjoy (recoilless dead feel and all) and my 350 when I want to get kicked. Your advice?

    Also, after shooting, is a rubdown with Ballistol preferable or will a rubdown with just the Birchwood Casey silicone cloth do? (My clothes and papers are an unholy mess but when it comes to my guns and pellets I'm anally neat!)

    -AlanL

  • Volvo Says:

    AlanL,
    The path you walk is well travelled.
    Never had an RWS 350, I did own an RWS 40 which was extremely accurate and similar.
    This guy says his tester was 36 lbs and describes his method. If you think that is a lot, never bother with the Patriot Kodiak.
    http://www.airgunwriter.com/rws-350.html

  • Frank B Says:

    SlingingLead,My Daisy wirestock is numbered 824 out of 1000?I bought it the same day BB talked about it on the blog….kinda odd that yours is lower in number…..must be selling way out of sequence!!!Maybe I should buy a dozen more…double up.

  • AlanL Says:

    Hi Edith,

    I've only got some 120 shots through it so far. I will try B.B.'s suggestion and measure it. Then I'll do it again after 500 shots.

    B.B.: If I do as you suggest, I am afraid I will hurt the front sight. I'll have to find a way to protect it while doing that… Why is it called a "post globe" sight anyway? The sharp little post I understand, but is the protective barrel around it the "globe"?

    Thanks again for all your advice.

    -AlanL

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    AlanL,

    There are so many tens of thousands of these rifles that it will take more than a decade for the price to increase. They will still be selling new old stock that long.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    AlanL,

    Yes, that is the globe. Just make sure when you cock it that the front sight doesn't touch the scale. I do this all the time to measure cocking force

    B.B.

  • AlanL Says:

    Volvo,

    Thanks for the point to Tom's article. Interestingly, this is copyright 2010. Tom, is your Airgun Writer column available by email subscription, so new articles are directly delivered (or alerted) to my email account? When I saw this I remembered I had read your older article on splatology. But so far, I've only mostly been mining this blog and PA's "Need Advice" page.

    -AlanL

  • Volvo Says:

    I know, but just one more.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB7iz1HTh9U&feature=related

    Laughed so hard I started to cry, my guess is border patrol training?

    God Bless the USA.

  • Frank B Says:

    BGfarmer,I have more than 2GB of Doc Watson….That is one reason why my laptop is slow.I also enjoy everything else,Chet Atkins,Dave VanRonk,Sinatra,Louis Armstrong,Marley,Hendrix,Jimmie Rogers,Mississippi John Hurt,Robert Cray,Roger Waters,….The list goes on and on….

  • AlanL Says:

    B.B.,

    Re RWS 52: In that case perhaps I will return it unopened and go for one of those Weihrauchs that several members of this community have been urging on me.

    Unfortunately PA doesn't have the HW85 listed. It is an agonizing choice between the HW80, HW85, HW90, HW95 or HW97K.

    (I have not forgotten the TX 200, but that I would get in 177 and I'd rather stick with .22 for now.)

    I am very tempted to try a gas spring rifle for a change. Can you recommend your favorites?

    -AlanL

  • Edith Gaylord Says:

    AlanL,

    The article is one that was published in the old Airgun Illustrated magazine before 2003. I updated it and posted it on Tom's website. Since I made some minor changes, I changed the copyright to 2010.

    There's nothing to subscribe to.

    Edith

  • FRED Says:

    AlanL, Edith and BB,

    I have atleast 1,000 pellets through my RWS350. In between vacuuming the basement carpet tonight and running up to my brother's house for his dehumidifier, I'll measure the cocking effort of my rifle and get it on this blog. Probably not before 10PM Eastern time.

    Fred PRoNJ

  • Mike Says:

    AlanL;

    You said, "…I am also right handed and left eye dominant, so I am squinting with my weak right eye, and keeping my strong left eye tightly closed. And my darn trifocals bother me."

    Here's something you may want to try. First, cover your dominant eye with a patch and shoot with both eyes open. After about 700 to 1000 reps, your eyes will switch domiance. This is the current "fix" being taugh to new shooters. It takes some time but is worth it in the long run. You can "Train your Brain".

    Also, when using open or aperture sites, insure your primary focus is on the front site, not the target.

    Mike

  • Anonymous Says:

    Volvo,

    I know that the .222 is very accurate, but have you seen a .222 shoot a .15 MOA group? Even David Tubb says that his T2K rifle can only do .3 or .4 MOA repeatedly. He says that the teens like this rifle are about the limit to accuracy even for benchrest guns and that they cannot sustain this accuracy–maybe that's why we only see 5 shots.

    Yes, I did see that other video in the course of surfing. The way they're dressed I'm not sure where they would conceal their weapons.

    I don't have a TV, so I missed the Pacific War episode. I'll have to wait for the DVD. But I'm glad to hear that it's bearing out all the good reviews. One of the main characters in the series, Eugene Sledge, talks about the Ka-Bar in his memoir. He said everyone kept theirs handy at night as the main defense against infiltrators. Now that experience would bond you with your knife. This is really the series for me.

    Matt61

  • Mike Says:

    Volvo;

    Eugene Sledge wrote a book titled, "With the Old Breed". It's about his experiences in the Pacific War. It's good, pick it up if you get a chance. It's available in paperback.

    Mike

  • AlanL Says:

    Mike,

    Interesting suggestion. I wonder if after 50+ years I can change that dominance. I'd have to drive and go to work with that patch too, wouldn't I? With my beard all I'd need is a golden earring, a parrot and a cutlass and I'd have everybody convinced…

    -AlanL

  • AlanL Says:

    Fred,

    Is your 350 a .22? I'll do my test late tonight as well. On Monday nights I play bridge with my elderly parents and won't get home til after 10.

    -AlanL

  • CJr Says:

    Matt61,
    Re: your first link
    To me it only demonstrates the accuracy of the rifle and the consistency of the gun vise. No human element involved in this.

    Volvo,
    Re: your link
    What gun?

    -Chuck

  • Volvo Says:

    Matt61,

    I think you will enjoy the Pacific series very much. I watched it twice last night, as I tend to miss some of the little detail the first time.

    I was not very clear on the video, what I meant was I have shot a 3 shot “one hole” group at 100 yards with a stock .222 before. I don’t have the target as the owner of the rifle kept it to show his wife and I am sure it was not as good as the one in the video. I just thought with a rig like that the guy would try a longer distance – or maybe show us 10 in one hole.

  • MIke Says:

    AlanL;

    You only have to do it while you are shooting. You don't want to weaken the patched eye. It really helps with wing shooting too. Also, 50 is young in my book.

    I do think you should get the cutlass!

    Mike

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    AlkanL,

    What you see on Airgun Writer is all there is. I no longer have the time to keep that blog going.

    B.B.

  • CJr Says:

    AlanL,
    I'm addressing this comment to you since your target stands are partially to blame.

    I've always been fascinated by lead. Why is it that lead is not magnetic? On the other hand why would we need a lead magnet, anyway? I found out today. I'm sure many of you know where I'm going with this.

    In the process of building the CJr-1000 target stand I attempted to move a tin of H&N Wadcutters out of the way (so I could use the table for measuring the stand supports) by picking the tin up from the top. Guess what? (and I knew this was going to happen to me sooner or later, today was my lucky day) As we all know those lids are loose and in my haste my fingers didn't get down on the tin far enough. The almost full 500 pellet tin fell 27 inches from the table to the black spotted Berber carpet. Three of those pellets ended up 8 feet from POI. I'll call those flyers. The rest were grouped in shotgun fashion. Not very good grouping at all. I then tried a tin of Daisy Wadcutters but their grouping was worse… What?!

    I seriously considered the easy way out – vacuuming them up. They would have to be considered trash then. Instead, since I had the tin labeled as one of the best in my IZH-61, I picked them all up by hand and placed them back in the tin. Not an easy task on black spotted Berber carpet. However, before using them I'll have to roll them on the table to make sure they don't wobble because of a damaged skirt. Lesson Learned? Yeah, right!

    It's amazing how many other brands of pellets I found down there in the process. I must remember never to let babies roam my basement floor.

    -Chuck

  • Alan in MI Says:

    BB, Vince, or anybody with thoughts,

    With all the talk of the wonderfull Baracuda's, I was thinking of ordering a tin or two to try in my tuned Quest 800. It shoots 14.6 grain Beeman FTS right at 700 fps for about 16 ft lbs, and has a Macarri Tarantula XL spring.

    Will it do OK with the heavy Baracuda's, or should I stay away from anything that heavy? I ask because of all the "chatter" out there about heavy pellets being bad for spring guns. The gun shoots pretty sweet right now and I don't want to mess it up – but I am tempted by the glowing reviews of those pellets be everyone.

    Just curious . . . .

    Alan in MI

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Alan,

    I don't believe all the chatter. But do what you feel comfortable with.

    B.B.

  • CJr Says:

    Anybody have any opinions of the Remington Advantage? Does anyone know which pellets to start trying first. (notice I didn't say "is the best")

    A friend of mine just emailed me and said he bought one for $99 at a local chain store. Sounded like a good deal, but it's not one BB has reviewed. He had all the usual questions which I answered from what I've learned on this blog about detonating, dieseling, non-lead pellets, breaking the sound barrier, etc. I sounded like an expert to me! But, as expected, I couldn't answer his question about, "what is the best pellet". I invited him over to try some of mine but if anyone has discovered any I'd appreciate knowing which ones.

    -Chuck

  • AlanL Says:

    CJr,

    You have it more or less easy. I dropped a tin of JSBs in the grass. Not only did I not find about 20% of them, those that I did find I had to blow the dirt and blades of grass out of. Of course, this causes the pellet to blow away and the dirt to stay. Murphy's law.

    Moral of the story: Don't blow your pellets. :-))

    -AlanL

  • vincent.brandolini Says:

    BB, I believe that none of the guns for which there is a gas spring conversion has a piston rod. The piston is just a hollow tube open at the rear, and the trigger sear engages a notch on the outer surface of the piston. When you pull out the rear spring retainer, trigger, and guide (and maybe not even the trigger), the spring and front guide just slide right out. I would expect that the gas spring just slides right in place of the original spring.

    Or am I missing something?

    Alan, I agree with BB. I can't imagine that even a heavy pellet like that will harm that gun. Just be prepared for sub-600fps velocities.

  • AlanL Says:

    Alan in MI,

    I thought the opposite was the problem: Shooting too light a pellet would resemble dry firing your springer, which would be potentially more harmful than firing a heavy pellet. What would constitute "too heavy" of a pellet, and how would that be harmful? If it meant that the pellet starts moving too slowly and you had too much pressure buildup, I wouldn't buy that because most good modern springers shoot in the combustion phase anyway and are built to withstand firing in the accidental detonation phase, even if the spring were to suffer. Maybe I'm missing something, but I suspect an overly tight or jammed pellet would pose a greater problem than any heavy pellet that actually gets moved smoothly down the barrel. Maybe that's why B.B. said to ignore the chatter. What does the "chatter" give as a reason for dangerousness to the gun itself of a heavy pellet?

    -AlanL

  • Alan in MI Says:

    AlanL,

    It is not an opposite case, just the opposite end of the weight spectrum. The idea is that neither too heavy nor too light is good for spring guns. When the weight and seal is ideal, the spring and piston comes to the smoothest stop possible (but still something on the order of 2000 g's).

    The chatter is that the heavy pellet does not start moving soon enough, leading to an excessive pressure build up that can cause detonation. Even if it doesn't detonate, the increased pressure is supposed to cause piston rebound off the pulse, and this causes a shockwave that fatigues the spring rapidly for an early failure.

    Like I said – chatter and theories. Probably nobody knows for sure, but Charlie da Tuna says that he has seen it plenty of times and recommends a narrow range of pellet weights for spring guns (he suggests not over 9 grains for .177 and not over 15 for .22 – of course most have a common powerplant, so that is strange). And as you say, too light is supposedly no good either.

    Alan in MI

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Vince,

    Thanks for that. I have confirmed that the gas springs called the Nitro Piston do not contain the piston. They are just the spring.

    B.B.

  • AlanL Says:

    Alan in MI,

    From Cardew's book I gather that the piston will rebound regardless. In fact, great compression of the spring occurs because in some cases the forward coils are already rebounding backwards while the back coils are still jumping forward. This leads to a back and forth vibration that they accurately documented with an oscilloscope and light triggers. I suspect that might be the origin of the fairly high frequency "buzz" that I experience with my new 350 shooting 21.14 grain Baracudas. Still, a properly tuned gun should see its spring reach maximum extension and highest pressure just as the pellet is brought to move (the ideal popgun phase) assisted by the combustion that is supposed to occur on every shot unless the chamber runs dry.

    Spring bounce is going to happen no matter what, and I think the weight of a pellet in the heavier ranges is nearly irrelevant, compared to the consequences of a pellet in the too light range, whatever that might be. But I'm talking through my hat, each gun has to be examined individually, and the Martin Cardew I believe actually still does forensic consulting work of this nature.

    I understand that gas springs avoid most or nearly all of these potential issues, since the volume of the chamber is fixed and there's no spring to fatigue or deform over time.

    -AlanL

  • AlanL Says:

    Martin, not "the" Martin- sorry. -AlanL

  • Anonymous Says:

    If you watch the benchrester's group you will see that there is a (relative) flyer even in .15 in. That should make us feel better.

    Matt61

  • ajvenom Says:

    and 3, 2, 1, *click* your back……

    you should all feel safe now knowing that all you're airguns were not sent in to me…..it was just an illusion….

    thank you for playing AJ's ultimate dream comes true.

    Of course I'm not returning Catherin Zeta Jones… or at least til my wife comes home or the movie rental store calls…he he he….you thought she was really here…LOL!!!

    Slingin Lead and all…some really talented people out there….I wonder if they can shoot as well as they can play.

    As for the mission impossible kid…..it took me 20 years to play anything that speed. Of course I never had lessons.

    I play open D then up a half step mainly with a capo and sometimes is placed on different frets depending on the song.

    I believe the kid plays his guitar tuned to a D chord..takes a bit to set up and hard to learn specific chords structures….and probably most of the time playing by ear and letting you guitar "sing" by just knowing what to do.

    Learning tab helps, but it seems opposite for me as I learned standard sheet music and basic chord structures. The rest I do is by ear. I've written a few songs by tuning some strings, but it nice to have more than one guitar if you are going to do that a lot.

    I've done enough tuning trying to get my guitar back into tune after my son gets a hold of it. It's my first guitar, not an expensive one. My Martin standard and fender electric are packed awys somewhere. I love Martins and always recommend them, but play them first before you buy.

  • Jay in VA Says:

    Mike,

    Until PA starts stocking them, you can order directly from Williams or from several firearm shops on-line. Google "Williams FP-GR-TK", or for the higher model (aka Beeman Sport Aperture), FP-AG-TK. Note that the TK is worth an additional $20. It appears Williams makes them for Beeman and will be doing so for Crossman…

    For those who are interested, Merit makes several adjustable apertures for the Williams sights. Again, Google Merit Adjustable Aperture.

    BB – I wonder if PA would get a better price by going straight to Williams?

    Jay

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Jay,

    Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It depends on the deal.

    B.B.

  • Mike Says:

    Jay in VA, thanks. I'll make a note as a receiver site is on the "To Add" list for the 52.

    Mike

  • Vince Says:

    CJr, it looks like the Remington Vantage is yet another Crosman Quest variant. So all comments about the Quest, Remington Summit, Sierra Pro, BAM B18 and B19, Storm XT, Phantom, G1 Extreme and TAC-1 Extreme (and almost certainly the Stoeger X10 and X20) apply. Excepting comments about the stock and/or sights, which vary.

  • Vince Says:

    Alan in MI, a 15gr pellet in .22 does not feel the same to a powerplant as a 15gr in .177. The area behind the pellet is over 50% greater, so the force behind the pellet (and thus the acceleration) is automatically over 50% greater. Additionally, as the .22 pellet starts moving down the bore it 'opens up' a lot more volume behind it than a .177 moving the same distance. All the powerplant 'feels' is the rate of bore volume increase, because that's what's letting the air out of the compression chamber. The powerplant doesn't know, or care, if a certain rate of bore volume increase behind the pellet is caused by a faster moving .177 or a slower moving .22.

  • CJr Says:

    Vince,
    Thanks for that. Looks like a lot of places to research. Ought to be
    something useful there.
    -Chuck

  • Alan in MI Says:

    Vince,

    Thanks for that – it helps a lot. I should have figured that out on my own . . .

    Any thoughts on the heavier pellets in a 16 ft lb .22?

    Alan in MI

  • Vince Says:

    Alan in MI, I'm glad my explanation was intelligible! I banged it out while a naked 4-year old was running in and out of the bathroom trying to get my attention.

    Anywho, like BB said, I really don't think you've got anything to worry about with regards to those heavy pellets. Worst comes to worst, you can ask Jim Maccarri what he thinks.

  • /Dave Says:

    Slinging Lead,

    Thanks for that Leo Kottke link! That brought back some memories! I saw him and Tim Weisberg one night at Red Rocks (Denver, CO), back in the late 70's. What an amazing show!

    /Dave

  • Vince Says:

    AlanL, my 350 cocked with about 41lbs of effort. Still not bad, considering the power. I think BB got a little less, 36lbs according to his report.

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    Frank B

    Re: the wire stocked Daisy. Go ahead and get the rest of them;^)

    That is weird, I remember yours was 800 something. I'm only guessing mine is number 814 actually. I haven't taken it out of its 2 boxes yet. It originally came in 3 boxes.(Guess you know that) I don't intend on shooting it, so I have kept it in the 2 boxes to preserve the inner one with the Daisy manufacturing label and presumable higher quality cardboard. Otherwise it would get ruined around here. There IS a huge sticker on the end of the box marked 0814. I'm tempted to open it.

    Hopefully, when someone does open up the box someday, it will contain a gun instead of just more boxes.

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    Chuck

    Hilarious!

    Try the JSB Exacts. They group exceptionally well in my carpet.

  • Mr B. Says:

    Edith,

    My Diana 350 Magnum has over 1,000 pellets shot and cocks at 40 lbs, as near as my trifolkls let me see the scale that is.

    Mr B.

  • FRED Says:

    AlanL,

    my 350 is a .177. Cocking effort is around 42 lbs.

    Fred PRoNJ

  • ajvenom Says:

    There are still some Daisy Wire Stock Replicas still for sale?

    I missed out on the Whiscombs. I've been kicking myself ever since.

    Well, now there should be one less Daisy wire stock replica left to go. I bought one….

    I figure I won't be too attached to this one and would be able to sell it if needed. Selling is my weakness. I can't never let anyone of them go. Why I sold my crosman I had as a kid, I'll never know. It was nothing special, but I figured the powderburners would take it's place as I grew older. Wrong.

    BB – Can I just store the Daisy wire stock replica untouched when it arrives? I have no plans to shoot it. I already have several Daisys to choose from already and those go through a lot of abuse.

  • ajvenom Says:

    LOL …slinging lead..was just reading your 9:04 post….

    future shock:

    sold one sealed daisy wire stock bb gun…..

    wait..this box is empty….

    word Verification -comical-

  • Frank B Says:

    AJVenom,what the hell???I just went in my airgun room…..theres like 20 airguns I don't recognise!Oh wait….nevermind……I forgot about last month.Whew…..I gotta slow down!

  • ajvenom Says:

    Vince…LOL!!!! you're lucky, my 4 year old wants me to come into the bathroom and watch the poopies come out. But, occasionally, it's been:

    "where are you going with that pluger?"

    "why is the floor all wet and there are wet towels in the sink?"

    "where are all your clothes?"

    "don't you squirt me with that"

    and "get mommmy I am in the shower………bring mommy the phone….hello…you heard it right….. it's not raining out……I'm in the shower"

  • Frank B Says:

    Fumes must have got me….I am roughing in a J.Maccari Tyrolean for my FWB 300 Type II Universal.I think the rest of my beard will be gray by the time I'm satisfied with this one….Pics in a few days?[if my arm doesn't fall off]
    SlingingLead;FOR SHAME!!!!!You mean your not even curious?Or are you old enough to have shot the original????

  • ajvenom Says:

    Frank B.

    It's bad when you don't recognise them….

    Your need to shoot them all each and every week…or they'll turn on one another or run away.

    Can everyone here list off the top of their head all the airguns in their collection?

    My collection is pretty small….but for some of you all…..I wonder

  • ajvenom Says:

    ooooohhh I forgot mine already…a maccari tyrolean on a fwb 300 not sure waht a type II universal is…but sounds neta.

  • ajvenom Says:

    See I can't even type correctly.

  • Frank B Says:

    AJVenom,yes,if you have an hour to kill!The list is over 50….but this old man can.I'm actually 43 but I feel old. HA….short term memory loss my a*#

  • Alan Says:

    I'm furious! I took the front sight off my 350 so I wouldn't damage it and put the top of the muzzle against my bathroom scale which has a glass plate that you stand on. Cushioned with a soft cloth folded six times of course. Slipped off while cocking and banged the muzzle against the tile floor. Gave it a burr and ruined the bluing, not to mention one side right at the end of the delicate dovetail for the front sight. Had to file it very carefully in order to be able to get the front sight on again. I'm an ASS!

    On my next try I used my daughter's silicone swim cap and that worked. I measured the cocking effort six times: three times with the end of the muzzle against the scale pushing down on the stock, and three times with the rubber butt on the scale pushing down on the barrel, right at the end for maximum leverage. Average was 51.6 lbs! Not one of the six attempts ever went below 50 pounds and one went as high as 56. I have lousy photographs to prove it. Arrrgh!

    It also creaks and groans like the door closer on an old screen door when I cock it. I've tried lubricating every hinge and rivet.

    I'm mad as hell at myself but now I know I'm not crazy when I said that 33 pounds on PA's site is phooey. I'm jealous all the rest of you are cocking it with just 40+ lbs. Maybe after another 500 shots, by which time I'll have muscles like Schwarzenneger.

    -AlanL

  • Frank B Says:

    AlanL,man that sucks…does the crown look ok?If not there are things that can be done…as far as the bluing goes,search BB's blog for his adventures with wonderblue.It won't hurt the existing bluing,take 20 min. work,protect exactly like the bluing…..and an expert would only spot it if he knew it was there.

  • Volvo Says:

    AlanL,

    Sorry to hear of your luck! As Frank says, get some cold blue. I have no advice on testing cocking effort, never tried it. More or less is what it is, on the other hand a Chrony is a good indication of health, which I think you have? You know my vote is still for the HW97K in .20 caliber instead of the 52, unless you expect to walk around with it a lot.

    Don’t fret, I've made so many oppies I've lost count. Plus all these trials and tribulation will make that first PCP so much sweeter some day. I think the side lever on my Cyclone probably needs a whole 8 ounces to cock. Ouch. I can actually leave it on target as I cycle the action ala the Winchester 94…

  • Frank B Says:

    Volvo,any Idea how much I should pay for a used HW97K??Not that I need one.Just curious

  • Volvo Says:

    FrankB,

    I know of a Beeman 97K .20 cal NIB for $506.00 If you want the contact info on it just let me know.

    New prices have gone up a ton last couple years.

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    /Dave

    Leo is great isn't he? He really did give himself Carpal Tunnel Syndrome playing that way, though Wikipedia says Tendinitis. He had surgery to fix the CTS and then had to teach himself to play all over, in a different style. He also was discharged from the Naval Reserves because of his hearing loss. I'm probably telling you stuff you know already.

    Leo is everything I admire in a person: humble, quiet, thoughtful, talented and FUNNY. He is the anti-rockstar. Once you really get into his guitar-playing, you can actually start to bear listening to him sing;^) He famously describes his own vocalizations as "Geese farting on a muggy day."

    I wish I could have been at that show, but I probably would not have been able to enjoy it much, seeing as how I was only 6 or 7 years old at the time, and had not yet achieved my current high level of sophistication!

    Take 'er easy /Dave.

    WV: quitin. "Its quitin tiiiiime"

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    Frank B

    A-Yep. Had one of the first ones hot off the assembly line. Trouble was, my good friend Grover Cleveland was always borrowing it!

    Curious? You're durn tootin' I'm curious! Stop it Frank, you are not helping!;^)

    I would dearly like to take her out and have a look at her, but like AJ, I have enough rifles for shooting and I just want it for the collectible value– if I open that box, bad things will happen to it. I just wish I could oil the piston seal, lest it rot away with time.

    Re: memory loss. I did AJ's exercise and quickly jotted down the names of all my rifles. Confident I got them all, I turned my attention to other things. I soon I discovered I had left out not only the Bronco, but also the very Daisy I was just freaking talking about! As Napoleon Dynamite said, "Idiot!"

    Sometimes my increasingly bad memory really depresses me, but then I forget all about it…

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    ajvenom,

    Yes, it should be safe to just store your wire stock Daisy. I imagine many of them will be stored like that.

    B.B.

  • AlanL Says:

    Slinging Lead,

    As Mark Twain once said, "I have an EXCELLENT memory, just very short!"

    -AlanL

  • brian Says:

    Hi BB
    I was just wondering, can I use the pellgunoil to occassionally oil the front and rear slide of the walther cp99, as well as the magazine release level as what the umarex manual ask me to do? also, can I use mineral oil to clean the exterior of the gun after shooting to remove any hand sweat? Thanks in advance!

    regards

  • FRED Says:

    Brian,

    you can use specific products for this purpose such as Ballistol, Outers gun oil or even 30 wt. non-detergent motor oil. Also, do yourself a favor and post your comments/questions on the current blog. You can always find the current blog at:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/

    Very few of us monitor the older blogs. You'll get much more exposure and a quicker response from numerous members of the blog. Off-topic questions are always welcome and sometimes can't be stopped!

    Fred PRoNJ

  • Anonymous Says:

    HI BB.
    I just purchased a Marksman model 45 177 cal springer. Serching the web I only found a conversion chart that said its a Beeman S1.
    I need a few replcement parts and need to know if they will fit?
    Also would you happen to know the specs. on this gun. Thank You !

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Marksman,

    According to the Blue Book of Airguns, the Marksman 45 was new in 1993. That makes it a modern rifle, probably Spanish, and sold by Marksman under SR Industries.

    It's a 900 f.p.s. .177 springer. 19.2-inch bbl. weighs 7.15 lbs.

    B.B.

  • Vince Says:

    Anonymous, c'mon over to the recent blog at http://www.pyramydair.com/blog – it's more active than the older ones.

    Now, with regards to the Marksman 45, that gun has a lot in common with the later Norica-built guns sold under the Beeman and Hammerli names (GS950, GS1000, Razor) as well as the Chinese clones (the AR1000 variants – TF89, SS1000, Hammerli Titan, Walther Force 1000, and several others).

    As a result, service parts (depending on what you need) might be available from UmarexUSA, Compasseco, or Beeman.

    What parts do you need?

  • anonymous Says:

    B.B.
    What's your best guess as to how a Marauder will group compared to the Fx whisper at 25/50/100yds? I know that there's a price differential and they are two different guns. Thanks!

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    My best guess is that the accuracy will be identical.

    B.B.

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