P-08 BB pistol from Umarex: Part 2

by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier

Part 1

Umarex P-08 BB pistol
The new Umarex P-08 BB pistol is a stunning copy of the firearm.

Time to learn gun terms
Before I start today’s report, I must make a comment. It deals directly with the subject air pistol, but it also deals with many others. The trigger on the Walther P-08 BB pistol is double-action. It is therefore harder to pull than a single-action trigger. I have read several overseas reports of this gun that complain about the “hard trigger pull.” The trigger-pull of this pistol is not hard — it’s double-action, which means that your trigger finger is first cocking either a striker or a hammer before bringing it to the point that the sear releases it to fire the gun.

My own brother-in-law shocked me this past Christmas when I took him to the range and let him fire my Makarov pistol. I told him that it’s a double-action and single-action handgun, so expect the first shot to have a heavier trigger pull. He did and of course the gun’s trigger-pull was heavy. Then, it fired again before he was ready and he remarked, “Wow, this trigger sure gets lighter after the first shot!”

Well, of course it does! It shifts from being double-action to single action, which would be the reason the trigger-pull goes from 10 lbs. down to 3 lbs. On the second and all subsequent shots, you don’t have to pull the hammer back with your finger — the slide does it for you. But it still shocked him.

To me, not understanding this is as absurd as complaining that you can’t find the clutch pedal in a car that has an automatic transmission. But people don’t do that, do they? They “get” that an automatic transmission does away with the need for a clutch pedal.

But new shooters and some that aren’t so new are still not understanding the meaning of a double-action trigger-pull. So, here’s a photo that I’d like you to internalize (if this is something you’re having difficulty understanding).

Umarex P-08 BB pistol double action trigger pull
This is what you are doing every time you pull a double-action trigger — whether you can see it or not.

Back to the test
Okay — rant is over. Today is velocity day, when we test the P-08 pistol with Umarex Precision steel BBs. I noticed when I pierced the CO2 cartridge that the gas leaked more than usual. It caught me by surprise, and I had to tighten the piercing screw several more turns before the face seal finally stopped the gas flow. And, yes, I did have a drop of Crosman Pellgunoil on the tip of the cartridge.

Then, it was a simple matter of loading 21 BBs into the stick magazine, and the gun was ready for testing. You may remember that the advertised velocity of this pistol is 410 f.p.s., so let’s see what it really does.

The first 10 shots averaged 384 f.p.s. They ranged from a low of 378 to a high of 393 f.p.s. The pistol started slow and sped up as the string was shot. I rested a minimum of 10 seconds between all shots.

The second 11 shots (21 in the mag) averaged 394 f.p.s. The low was 391 and the high was 399 f.p.s. The slowest shot in this string was faster than the average of the first 10 shots. The gun seems to be breaking in.

Next, I shot 10 blanks, just to use up some gas because I suspected the next magazine would be all there was. I was wrong about that.

Shots 32 to 42 averaged 382 f.p.s. with a low of 377 and a high of 385 f.p.s. The pistol seems to be settling down.

Shots 43 to 52 averaged 386 f.p.s. The low was 382 and the high was 398 f.p.s. The gun had more shots remaining after this second magazine.

Now, I decided to just shoot the entire 21-shot magazine and record the average. Shots 53 to 74 averaged 381 f.p.s. The low was 358 f.p.s., and it occurred at the start of the string. The high was 388, which occurred at shot 71. Go figure!

The next magazine started at shot 75 and ended at shot 96. The average was 371 f.p.s. At shot 88, the velocity started to fall rapidly. The cartridge was out of liquid and was just putting out residual gas pressure at this point.

How many shots?
I believe this gun will be good for at least 4 full magazines before its time to replace the cartridge. If you don’t replace it then, you could get a BB stuck in the barrel when the pressure drops too low.

I do believe this gun needs to break in a little, and you can expect to see velocities climb a little after several hundred shots have passed through.

Trigger-pull
I measured the weight of the trigger-pull for you. It’s a light 9 lbs., 2 oz. to 9 lbs., 5 oz. Compared to a Colt or Ruger revolver, that’s very light. There’s a definite stack at the end of the pull; so once you learn this trigger, it should be very easy to control.

Opinions thus far
I still like this pistol. There were no surprises in this test except for the greater number of shots. I’d estimated about 60 good shots and there are really over 84. Watch that piercing screw, as this one seems to need more movement than many CO2 guns on the market. I might have lost another 10 shots just by losing the gas in the beginning.

Can’t wait for the accuracy test!

64 thoughts on “P-08 BB pistol from Umarex: Part 2

  1. So do this manufacturers test with alloy BB’s too? I’m waiting, and will likely wait forever, for someone to actually beat their advertised velocity, not that it matters so much.


    • Victor,

      Do you realize how close 399 f.p.s. is to 410 f.p.s.? The difference in miniscule. And the gun may not have reached its full potential yet. I would say this gun is spot-on the advertised claim.

      B.B.


      • B.B.,

        My apologies. I realize that I was being nit-picky about this. But I figured that a gun like this doesn’t need to fudge claims at all. I don’t think that velocity is it’s charm. This is a gun that apparently looks and probably feels like the real thing, and it’s functional. So what more could someone want. But even if the claims said that it shot at, say, 375 fps, it would still have appeal. In any case, 400 fps is respectable, I think, and it’s almost there. The extra 10 fps advertised wouldn’t have added to it’s value.

        Victor


        • Victor,

          Far from being upset — I plan to use what you said as a blog soon. I think consumers do not understand what those velocity numbers represent.

          B.B.


          • Here’s a suggested blog title in this same vein, “How Chronographs Have Changed Airgunning and not all for the better.”

            kevin



    • G. Austin,

      I don’t know what yo are referring to. I see nothing in the photo that looks like rounds.Are you seeing the light reflections from the inside of the empty chambers?

      Of course I cleared the revolver before taking that posed photo.

      B.B.


    • G. Austin,

      I just enlarged the image. What you see are the far sides of the chambers where the rounds would go. It’s an optical illusion, making them look like the bottoms of cartridges standing proud of the cylinder.

      Edith



  2. Speaking of pull weights, why are some of these triggers so heavy? I understand with the revolver-type mechanisms (ie PX4, Walther CP88, or many other Umarex guns that use the two sided mags) that you’re not just cocking the hammer but also indexing the magazine.
    But a bb pistol like this, fed from a spring-loaded mag?


    • dangerdongle,

      You are still cocking a striker against its mainspring when you pull the trigger. That’s why the trigger is so heavy. If it were lighter, the mainspring would have to be weaker and that would result in lower velocity.

      There are things a designer can do about the trigger pull, such as design the trigger mechanism to use the maximum leverage for the best mechanical advantage and use a heavier striker so the mainspring doesn’t need to be as strong. But we must assume that was all done to get the pistol to this point.

      B.B.


      • Thank you BB! I didn’t realize Co2 guns worked like firearms-for some reason I’ve been under the impression that a hefty spring held the valve shut, hence the heavy pull.

        Btw, as regards a previous discussion on the difficulty of designing magazines for pellet pistols, it would seem Umarex has already come up with a pretty clever design:

        http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Beretta_CX4_177_magazine/2011

        It looks to me like it wouldn’t be too hard to adapt something like that to fit various grip angles…
        (I’m not ready to give up on hoping for more pellet-firing replicas just yet!!)


        • Just the opposite. The pressure /inside/ the reservoir holds the valve shut, and a striker hits the end of the valve to pop it open. The valve spring just ensure it closes back up when the pressure is low. Just like letting air out of a car tire.

          The striker needs a combination of mass and speed to pop the valve. Speed depends on the strength of the spring and the length of travel (and negatively on the mass: a light striker may move faster, but also rebound off the valve sooner).


    • What other CO2 pistol do you have appart from those pistol looking revolvers?
      You can actually see the striker on some of those, the striker is the barrel and when you pull the trigger the barrel comes out a little and when it releases the barrel strikes the valve and the BB is on it’s way out.

      I think BB once showed the barrel sticking out before releasing the shot but I don’t remember when, the Colt Defender is like that, the Crosman C11 to name a few.

      J-F


      • Just Crosman’s 2240 and 357, and the little Walther cp99q. I see what you mean about the striker on the 357…I guess it never occurred to me that’s what it actually was as I associate strikers with primers….boy do I have a lot to learn!!


  3. The old vintage Healthway Plainsman Co2 bb pistol is also double action, but has a light trigger. I am amazed that manufacturers today are not able to duplicate if not improve on this. The Plainsman is also quite powerful in the “Hi” setting. One important disadvantage is the gravity feed which allows for frequent jams.

    Regards,

    Fred S.


    • More nostalgia. Remember the Plainsman 175( shot BB’s) and the MC 22 ( shot round lead .22 cal balls) of the mid -late 1960′s ? Too bad that the manufactures of today, you know the ones who are still in diapers as Kevin put it the other day, won’t go back and resurrect those types of CO2 rifles, instead of the tacti-cool crap of today. Maybe hone their engineering skills if they have any , to perfect the designs and eliminate the issues with the originals.Heathways even had a CO2 version of the Colt 1873 SA Army. A lot of this new stuff isn’t new at all if you’ve been around the block a couple times.


  4. B.B.,

    To anyone who complains about the lack of blowback with this Luger, all I would respond with is, “87 shots on 12 grams of CO2.” ‘Nuff said.

    AND I assume you conducted the test indoors at what, 72 or so degrees? How many shots might one get on a sunny (black metal gun) day of 87 degrees in the summer? 100? 105? And what might the average velocity be? 415? 420?

    My point is some people always find something to complain about. Hey, this is going to be a $60 BB gun. Whaddya expect? Sheesh!

    B.B., the most important question of them all: was it fun shooting it? :^)

    I’ll bet it felt like a dream — like it became a natural part of your hand.

    When I was a kid my folks gave me a Hubley full size Luger cap gun (still have it). Even at that age it felt different in the hand than my other cap guns. Its weight was evenly distributed; the barrel seemed to come straight out of my hand, the angle of the grip put my wrist in a straight position . . . perfectly natural.

    Is that what some folks mean when they say a particular gun is “very pointable”?

    Michael


    • Michael,

      Yes, it did feel like part of my hand. But I was only shooting through a chronograph. The real test is when I shoot for accuracy.

      B.B.


  5. Unrelated question for the smartest man in the room (BB): My dad and I are talking about pellets and rifles etc. Both have 1,200 fps gas springers. A very well known after market trigger guy, according to my father, says that PBA is too light for these guns and that 10.5 grain pellets are too heavy and can hurt the piston. Claims we should use the 7.9 grain domed pellets. I agree that PBA ammo is worthless, but is he correct about 10.5 grain pellets possibly being damaging? I started shooting those to reduce stress on the gun, but perhaps wrongly so? THANKS!!!!


    • I’m not B.B., and I’m definitely not smart, either, but if a springer that shoots 1200 fps. in .177 is also offered in .22, the .22 powerplant is the same. How many grains will the lightest .22 pellets be? What about the .25 version of the rifle that also has the same powerplant?

      I think magnum springers work well with (reasonably) heavy pellets.

      Michael


    • I’d be more likely to suspect the PBA of being the damaging ones… If they move too fast, they don’t provide the back-pressure to cushion the piston. Too slow (heavy) and the piston may rebound on back pressure and be less effective.

      A chronograph is needed. Based on my simple tests using a chronograph to compute muzzle energy while testing a range of pellet weights will show a

      /—-\

      pattern. (light/high-speed on left, heavy/slow on right).

      That is, in the middle range the produced muzzle energy doesn’t change much as you change pellet weight. Go too heavy, and the pellet mass isn’t enough to compensate for the velocity drop — net energy drops. Go too light, and the velocity can’t make up for lack of mass.

      Consider these results: (maker, model, weight, velocity, energy)
      Gamo NRA 1000 Special .177
      RWS Hobby 6.9 926.7 13.16
      RWS Super-H-Point 7.4 926.1 14.09
      RWS Superdome 7.7 852.2 12.42
      RWS SuperPoint 7.7 894.2 13.67
      RWS Meisterkugeln Rifle 8.3 850.6 13.33
      Predator Polytip 9.2 723.4 10.69
      Benjamin Discovery (RN-HP) 10.5 709.5 11.74
      Eun Jin Domed 15.6 528.0 9.66

      This gun is ~13-13.5 ft-lbs with pellets from 7 to 8 grains (I don’t have any PBA), and then drops rapidly in the 9+ grain range.

      My m54 .22 is around 19.5 ft-lbs from 14-18 grains, dropping to 16 ft-lbs in the 21 grain realm.


      • Thanks for the detailed report Wulfraed. I grasp the concept the weight to muzzle fpe you illustrate. But specifically I’m asking about the claim that a heavier pellet can actually be detrimental to the condition of the gun. I would think that it would make the stress of the piston less due to greater resistance. However, as stated in my original comment someone is claiming otherwise. Any truth to that?




      • BB, don’t want to violate any blog rules, but let’s just say the guy who claims this has a name that rhymes with Marlie DaLuna. He states this on his website…”Do not use heavy pellets in your gun
        Although heavy pellets such as the Kodiaks will not damage Co2, PCP, and Pumper type airguns, they can and will sometimes cause severe damage to the main spring in Springer Guns. They can cause damage and spring fatigue beginning with just a few shots and when disassembled, the damage caused by heavy pellets and detonation is easily detected and identifiable. The spring failure usually is not the fault of the spring.
        For the longevity of your spring gun:
        My suggestions are for .177 caliber gun that the maximum pellet weight should be 9 grains.
        My suggestions are for .22 caliber gun that the maximum pellet weight should be 15 grains.
        Use heavy pellets at your own risk and expense.”
        Thoughts?



          • I have to agree 100% with BB this time. I have seen no evidence of damage to magnum or even medium power spring guns with heavy pellets.

            But with light weight pellets the evidence is plentiful. The crack of the report. The excessive jump when the trigger is pulled. The insane bees flying around inside the gun after the trigger is pulled.

            I do not get any where near this type of reaction when I pull the trigger on heavy pellets.

            Not to mention the insane spread of the groups with the light weight alloy stuff.

            I see no harm in using the light weight alloy pellets in pump ups or SSP’s. Except I almost never have seen these pellets shoot even close to what a good lead pellet will do.

            From my view point, about the only thing the really light pellets are good for is bragging rights on velocity.

            Oh, and maybe as markers for the 12 points on a clock with a gun theme!

            Hmmmm….A nice big round piece of fine walnut cut from a stump about 12 – 16″ in diameter and about 3/4″ thick, 12 pba platinum alloy pellets, 12 numbers, a nice accurate battery operated clock movement, custom arms with two high grade pellet guns cast in silver or gold, or one of each, and an extension from the muzzle with a pba gold pellet to look like a vapor trail with a pellet at the end! For the arms say maybe a TX 200 and a FX Cyclone? Ohhh….dang, dang, dang. Wish I had the wood and equipment to work it. I am familiar with lost wax casting as I used to do it, but no longer have the equipment. I am also very familiar with wood working and finishing. Used to do a lot of stock refinishing and using Fajen DIY stocks to build my own custom guns and a few for friends and family.

            All my equipment, wood stock, and a lot of my guns were sold at auction in 1986 to settle a divorce decree! The year before that and the 5 – 7 years after that were the worst years of my life. Lost all my equipment, never did have enough money after that to recover any of it. I did not mind the guns going, as I got to save 8 of my choice. But the equipment and the enjoyment of using it was a part of me that I never got back!

            But I since have managed to build up a small collection of air guns and I really enjoy shooting and they are affordable, so life is good! :-)

            But, I digress.



        • Nicely said, BB.
          My father used to say, “I am a man of few words, and two of them are ‘Be Brief’.”
          Would you ever consider running for Congress?


        • With no description of why the damage would occur, I’d have to disagree.

          As I’d mentioned earlier — my view is that a heavy pellet will be slow enough that the piston rebounds on the air pressure build-up (the ultimate example would be a totally blocked barrel). The pressure builds up until it matches the spring force, and the piston slows to a stop. Not enough back pressure (firing with no pellet being the ultimate for this) means the piston slams into the end of the chamber.

          Now, if the gun is really detonating, the /explosion/ is going to slam the piston backwards while the spring is trying to push it forward — that may set up some odd standing waves or other vibration modes in the spring, and lead to weakness. But just back pressure? If that damages springs, then so does the start of the cocking cycle, which is also pushing on the spring when it is nearly fully extended.

          However — Note that the recommendation of 9gr max for .177 is just at the break point I show for muzzle energy on my Gamo NRA 1000 Special [Gamo Shadow?] Heavier pellets eat energy (probably heating the air more than lighter pellets, and maybe inducing detonations from the higher heat) — and if one is hunting, the difference in energy may be the difference between a kill and a wound.


          • Wulfraed,

            What the people who think heavy pellets are bad say is that a heavy pellet makes the piston rebound off a high-pressure air cushion before it bottoms out. They say this sets up harmful resonations that weaken the steel in a spring. I don’t agree with this.

            B.B.



        • I won’t try to find the specific posting just now, but I believe I remember B.B. writing something like this, and I paraphrase “if the heavier pellet is what shoots best in a particular airgun then that is the pellet I will shoot and I will replace the spring when it becomes necessary”. What price accuracy?
          ~Ken



        • That gentleman is sometimes inclined to buy into “conventional wisdom” without really knowing if it’s substantiated. But in any event, it’s hard to imagine a piston rebounding off a cushion of air – not steel, but air – with enough of an impact to set up the sort of shock in the spring that will harm it. Especially considering that the spring is almost extended by that point and under relatively little stress.


  6. I check every day in the new products section on pyramyd air. I’m seeing very few new products out there. I’m not that interested in the Walther LGV But I’m really waiting for that new crosman butterfly pump ans some of their new assault rifle looking things. Anybody know a possible date those will be available? They will be great additions to my airguns that look like assault rifles.


    • John,

      The new items are slowly trickling onto the website. That’s one of the reasons I attended the SHOT Show this year…to faciliate the listing of new items.

      Manufacturers/importers sometimes show products that won’t be available for months…or even years. Other times, the products never get produced.

      Depending on the item, it can take me a couple hours to get all the specs together from several sources, write up the gun, select all the ammo and accessories for each caliber and verify everything is correct. I’m very deliberate & methodical…not to mention obsessive, lest I promise something the gun can’t live up to! It’s not even unusual for a product writeup to take days or weeks because insufficient info is available, and I have to contact the manufacturer/importer and wait for them to respond with answers. Sometimes, they don’t have the answers, and I have to wait for them to contact their home office in another country.

      You’ll be seeing a number of new producs within the next couple weeks!

      Edith


      • Thanks. I’m hoping to see the new crosman offerings soon. I know I grumble about them being sellouts to china, but when they got some of the best looking stuff in the business I can’t resist. I have a fairly large collection of breakbarrels so not many of those interest me but that one that looks like an ar15 got my attention as well as that new one that looks like a SCAR. I’ll probably very rarely ever use them, but they will look great on my wall in my gun rack. Kind of like trophies.


      • Edith,

        Crosman is supposed to come out with a gas piston PISTOL. Any idea if and when? I am extremely interested in it, as specs say 600 fps I believe with lead pellets.

        That would be simply fantastic, especially if it is accurate at all. My Beeman .20 P1 shoots only in the range of 375 fps with heavy pellets to a high of 500 fps with very light lead pellets. Those I believe are 9.8 or 9.9 grains, so if the .177 could shoot 8.4 grains any where close to 600 fps it would tickle me pink! The P1 is extremely accurate, as every one I have ever shot has been.

        Also if it comes out at near the $80 they advertise, I predict a ton will sell if they are any where near accurate.


        • Stauch,

          Crosman showed that pistol at the SHOT Show this year. That usually means they will bring it out sometime inside the coming calendar year.

          B.B.


        • I am sure that Crosman showed it at the SHOT show last year also. PA had it on their web site for quite some time and would move back the delivery date month by month. And, I actually bought and paid for one last February from another seller who probably would not want to be named anyway. I think I called Crosman at least 6 or 8 times and was always told that it was “in pre-production”. My thinking is that somewhere along the way something didn’t work as planned and it just took this long to get the bugs out. Maybe they lost a supplier at the last moment or the piston leaked … something like that.

          It is now over a year since I saw it the first time and I am no where near as excited as I was then. The same thing has happened to me with the Umarex P08 BB shooter. My original reaction was pure excitement but I have cooled off a lot very quickly. Where I would have purchased either one of these, or probably both of them, just a year ago, I have decided that what I want now is something more sophisticated. Maybe I mean challenging or more difficult to master. I have enough stuff that I bought just for the fun of shooting it. Now it is time to get serious. I am getting ready to move up to a 46M with the upgraded trigger. It is a big surprise to me at how much a person’s lust for something can change over the course of just one year.

          On the other hand, I would still buy a good quality P08 with the 6″ barrel if the toggle and the bolt moved like the original.

          NRS


          • Crosman posted a pic of the pistol with packaging on facebook this week asking if we were really ready for it so my guess would be that it should be available fairly soon.

            J-F


  7. B.B.

    I wonder why we like precision handguns to be anything but weapon-like, but at the same time we want our “canbusters” to be as close to real military powderburners as possible :)

    Finished designing new CO2 cylinders for my C62, tomorrow I’ll review them with a fresh eye and send them to workshop. I wonder if they will cost me 3:1 compared to original or more likely 4:1. Time will show.

    duskwight


  8. I was mentally prepared for the double action pull with the Beretta 9mm, but did not expect how hard it would be. It didn’t seem to me worth it because of the distracting change-up in trigger pulls. I’d rather go cocked and locked.

    CowBoyStar Dad, Canada is ammo heaven. Everything is sold out at Midway USA. Supposing the old misanthrope ever gets around to sending me my Mauser, I’ll have nothing to shoot in it for the foreseeable future. B.B., how in the world did you get 8 pounds of powder out of Midway? It looked like their powder and everything else vanished after December. I have wondered how the stocks of the ammo and gun companies are doing now, although it’s too late to jump on the train in any case. On the one hand, I doubt any industry is doing better now. On the other hand, there is restrictive legislation hanging over their heads. In any case, they certainly are pulling in the profits.

    Victor, that is intense with your friend and not common that he made out as well as he has. Good for him. I have wondered why it is so impossible to express what happened in those combat experiences since they were very concrete. I can understand the emotional resistance to talking about it, but not actually describing it. But I came across one comment where a veteran said that he really did try once, but it came out sounding clinical and didn’t capture the experience. I guess you need an artist for that like Stephen Spielberg. Anyway, the details alone of what I’ve read are gruesome enough.

    I’ve heard as a common thread that PTSD sufferers are upset by loud bangs and flashes. That does make you wonder again about the wisdom of taking a victim to a shooting event. With all of your legal knowledge, maybe you guys know the parameters of capital murder which the shooter is charged with in this case. I thought capital murder only applied to murder of officers of the court and police.

    Matt61


    • Matt61,

      My brother in law HATES anything that goes bang! He hates 4th of July for that reason. it’s the worse day of the year for him. He was given/awarded an M1 that over 40 years later he still has never shot. It just sits in a closet, and will probably never be shot by him. I’ve considered offering to buy it, but then I think that it’s probably of strong sentimental value to him, so I haven’t.

      Victor


      • Victor if you haven’t done so already you should make sure to let your brother in law know that you like the rifle and would like to have it if he ever wants to get rid of it for a reason or another.

        When my grand father was getting old so he decided he wouldn’t need his rifles anymore and gave them away to someone other than me. I would go visit him 2 or 3 times a month and we really got along very well (better than with my dad actually) and when I ask were the guns were he told me he had given them away to a family friend… I almost fainted. He said he had no idea I was interested in them and would have kept them for me if only he had known about my interest for them.
        It wasn’t for the guns in themselves it was like your brother in law, because of sentimental value.
        I wanted them because they were HIS guns.
        I know the guy who has them and he promised me he would contact me if ever tought wbout getting rid of them but also said that there was little chance of it happening in his lifetime…

        J-F


        • J-F,

          Good advice. I just want to be very tactful about this because the thing that I’m most conscientious about IS sentimental value to him. Basically, as you’ve put it, the thing to say is, should you ever decide that you don’t want it, I’m interested.

          Victor


      • Victor,

        If he really doesn’t use it, perhaps he would loan it to you to try for a time? He won’t miss it and you assure him that it’s just a loan. It might develop into something more, but even if it doesn’t, if he’ll loan it for a period, at least you’ll be able to try it out and see what you’ve been missing.

        B.B.


  9. B.B. do you have any idea of what the hold up is with the JSB Exact pellets and when they might be back? :-( If it’s a lead shortage, it doesn’t seem to be affecting any other pellets. I have a bad feeling about this. :-( I wonder if that’s why I had a bad dream last night of dry firing my B30 four times.

    Matt61


    • Matt,

      I have no idea of what the problem is, except that JSB pellets are the most popular and they do sell out. When Pyramyd gets a shipment it’s on a pallet and weighs half a ton or so. And that is just one caliber and style of pellet!

      B.B.


  10. So I log into Facebook and head for the Pyramyd Air Gun Mall, where I find not only the big shot of month entry but also a chance to name a combo and win it. The current offering is a Crosman C11 starter pack. I don’t expect to win anything with this, but I am so impressed with my imagination I am sharing it with all of you. My entry to name this combo is (drum roll, please), “Mother’s Little Helper”.
    Probably would go better with a .308 combo. ~Ken



  11. The fact is , really ANY shotgun is a turkey gun. I speak from experience on this. Turkey hunting is more about being in an area where turkeys hang out , patterning them,and sitting still than the shooting part.


    • I guess I’m easily amused. It’s the ‘tactical’ part that cracks me up.
      Kinda like putting quad rails on a Sharp. ^.^


      • I know what you mean, but even if it mattered, the tactical part isn’t legal here anymore. Pistol grip is an evil feature. You know how I pattern a shotgun for turkey hunting? I use a soda can . The range at which I can get a reasonable number of pellets on the can is the range that the shotgun I’m shooting is good for.


        • Robert,

          I’m shaking my head so often these days about the gun grabbing that my neck has cramps.

          Hope your recently filed lawsuits along with the organized public outcry has some positive affect on this backroom legislation that was rushed through the process.

          Very disturbing times we’re living in. Time for the few of us left that cherish the Constitution and it’s well thought out and heavily debated amendments to unite.

          kevin


          • Kevin , the lawsuits are gaining traction, and even one of the framers of this bill is talking ammending the ten round magazine issue to allow folks to keep their existing ones without modifing them to seven rounds , not that that makes me feel better. Some of the senators that voted on this are really afraid of losing their jobs , and we are going to make sure that they do! Other gun owners in other states shouldn’t be complacent in believing that this won’t happen in their state . NY is a test bed for this crap. I get frustrated with folks who say vote with your feet. If this spreads there won’t be any place to go.


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