If I were you…

by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier

A couple days ago, I was surprised to see a very technical discussion in the comments section of the Mosin Nagant sniper rifle written by our own Matt61. I remarked that I remembered a time when Matt was new to almost everything in the shooting world. He was exploring multiple avenues of the hobby and asking, in the words of another reader, “billions of questions every day.”

That got me thinking, which is sometimes dangerous, but always interesting. My thoughts ran to things like what I was like when I was just starting out in this world of shooting. It was back in the 1950s and ’60s and there was no internet, so I learned much of what I knew from reading books and magazines and by talking to whoever would tell me about guns. Unfortunately, I didn’t know any real shooters, and the stuff I did get was mostly untrue or outright lies that were calculated to keep me from trying out things on my own.

I remember one thing I was told by my mother and stepfather about my grandfather’s Colt Army Special revolver in .38 Special caliber. They didn’t want me shooting the gun that was mine (inherited from my father), so my stepfather told me that the metallurgy of old guns crystalized with the passage of time and this gun was likely to blow up if shot. I bought that line for a couple years; but when it didn’t agree with my readings of Elmer Keith in Guns & Ammo, I finally gave the old girl a try. Of course it didn’t blow up, and I discovered that I was a pretty fair shot with a handgun at the same time. Imagine that!

Then there was the fiction of the .44 Magnum revolver being not only the most powerful handgun in the world (Dirty Harry timeframe), but also a gun that kicked so hard the front sight would come back and hit you in the forehead! Imagine my disappointment to discover that the first .44 Magnum I fired kicked only a little harder than a .357 Magnum revolver I was already very used to. Chalk up another experience that didn’t go as advertised.

As a youngster in Ohio, I had friends who told me that a 12-gauge shotgun would kick me like a Missouri mule. They had seen their younger brothers “knocked back three feet” by the recoil of this fearsome beast. But when I shot one, it didn’t seem much different than the 16-gauge shotgun I was already using. “Well,” they said, “maybe you can stand that, but don’t even think of shooting a 10-gauge. It will knock you flat!” I still haven’t tried one, so perhaps they’re right.

At this same time, I was getting loads of “information” about those magical Benjamin pump-ups that were “just as powerful as a .22 short.” If you pumped one 50 times it would crack like thunder and you couldn’t tell the difference between it and a rimfire.

Then there was the full-auto craze. Like most boys of my era, I was brought up on tales of Elliot Ness and the Chicago Typewriter that could destroy whole blocks of the Windy City when fired indiscriminately in artificially long, continuous bursts from the open windows of speeding gangster cars. So, the reality of dumping a 30-shot stick magazine from an M3A1 grease gun 10 years later was a huge letdown. As was seeing 15 M2 ground-mounted machine guns on a firing line fail to hit a 5-foot by 20-foot cloth banner trailed behind a Remote Controlled Aerial Towed Target (RCATT) drone that flew down the line at 150 m.p.h. 150 feet away! Until then, I thought machine guns were always able to hit their targets. After seeing they couldn’t, I wondered how they ever hit anything that wasn’t standing still.

Then there was the mystique of the Desert Eagle pistol. I had heard it was an awesome gun, that flattened things at both ends — muzzle and grip — equally. A few years ago, I shot one in .44 Magnum and found that it was only slightly harder-recoiling than a 1911 pistol chambered for .45 ACP. What a huge letdown that was. Now, I own a Desert Eagle in .357 Magnum, and that’s only until I can trade up to the .44 that’s the lightest-recoilling big bore handgun I’ve ever fired.

The moral of the story
Don’t take anyone’s word for how bad, how powerful or how effective any gun is until you try it for yourself. Most of the time, they exaggerate. Find out for yourself.

Some things are true!
There are, however, some things that have been true when I tested them. For example, the .250/3000 (.250 Savage) caliber is a much softer-recoiling cartridge than the Winchester .243, despite being nearly equivalent in power. I don’t know why that is, but I’ve demonstrated it repeatedly.

Or the fact that the .223 Remington can be an accurate round! All my life, I have seen it used only in ARs that spray like fire hoses; but when I finally shot one that had a barrel with some pedigree, the doggone thing actually grouped! Not quarter-inch groups (yet), but 10 shots in three-quarters of an inch at 100 yards…and some that were a little better!

What’s this got to do with airguns?
A lot of firearm talk, so far. What about airguns? Well, with a few exceptions, like the Benjamins mentioned earlier, most of my airgun experience has been first-hand rather than driven by rumors. When I hear a good rumor about an airgun, I test it if I can. Then, I pass along my results to you. Not that I know everything or don’t make a lot of mistakes along the way, but I try to tell you things I would if you were standing next to me and we were about to test the gun in question.

That’s why this report is titled If I were you….Because I tell you things I really think you would want to know. Things like how nice the Benjamin Marauder is and why I like the AirForce Talon SS so much. When I went on and on about the new Walther LGV Challenger a couple months ago, that was me being me.

Some people think I’m simply pushing airguns at you all the time. But that isn’t the case. If an airgun has any drawbacks, the last thing I want is for you to buy it because you think I recommended it. And I do get to see a lot of airguns that have shortcomings. When a great one comes along, it’s such a rare event that I tend to shout it from the rooftops.

I’m not afraid of what you’ll think about the guns I recommend. That doesn’t mean there won’t be a real lemon in the bunch from time to time. It happens to everything, and I can’t protect anyone against it. So, when I recommend a gun to you, it’s because I believe there’s a good chance the gun will be as good for you as it was for me. You and I may differ on what constitutes a good thing, which is why I report the results and let you make the decisions. But every once in awhile, something really great comes along and I cannot restrain myself from saying “If I were you…”

Big Shot of the Month
Pyramyd Air’s Big Shot of the Month is Donald Liverance. He’ll receive a $100 gift card. Congratulations! If you’d like a chance to be the next Big Shot, you can enter on Pyramyd Air’s Facebook page.

Pyramyd Air Big Shot of the Month

Donald Liverance is the Big Shot of the Month on Pyramyd Air’s airgun facebook page.

91 thoughts on “If I were you…

  1. You are so right.

    There is this old bald guy who is always yammering on about how great the TX200 Mk III is on one of the airgun blogs. Well, I finally broke down and bought one. And guess what? The guy was lying the whole time!! The gun is way better than he said it was.


    • He got you too?! The same fella told me about this strange way to hold a rifle. At first i thought he was just a Mr. Miyagi wannabe. ” Hold the rifle gently daniel-san, let the rifle recoil naturally daniel-san.” But as you say, he was right.



        • Count me in as falling for that quiet spoken, fountain of knowledge. I, too, just acquired a TX 200 Mk III and have to say that the blog’s words just didn’t do this rifle justice. As the late, wonderful Steve Irwin liked to say in his Australian accent, “wot a beauty!”.

          As for shooting a .44 magnum, I did that and with the first round fired, the recoil which I wasn’t expecting, caused the gun to come back at my head. Had I not moved my head to the side, I would have been the story that proved the myth. I shot it two more times and put it down. My hand was beet red! “Wot a monster!”. Not fun to shoot at all.

          Fred DPRoNJ


          • Alright you clowns, enough is enough. Ms. Edith, ya better look away, this ain’t gonna be pretty! As for the rest of ya, conspirin’ w/Mr. BB ta write an article so ya could gloat over your Tx’s, knowin’ full well that mine which was ordered 5/1 & b/r’d…again ’til 7/19, is evil, wicked, nasty & just down right mean! Butt, bein’ the klassie (think that’s how ya spell it) guy that I am, I’m takin’ the high road here & gonna wish ya all a fantastic weekend of laughter, fun, frivolity & sub .250 groups with your TX’s, ya big poopie heads, while I’m over here doin’ the pee pee dance. Shoot/ride safe.
            Beaz


            • and to you, Mr. Beazer, I have two words to say: “nyah, nyah”. Also, two, actually three more words to say: gunbroker dot com. Sometimes, somewhere out there in the ether, someone is looking to sell their beauty because……

              However, absolutely nothing wrong with buying new. Beez, keep in mind you will need some type of optical device – scope or red dot and hopefully, you were aware of that. You will absolutely love it. the wait is worth it.

              Fred DPRoNJ


              • Howdy Fred D, I’m on it. Scope ordered is the Mr. BB/Myagi (that’s funny) recommended, Hawke 4.5-14×42 AO Sidewinder. Used workz for knuckleheads, ’69 big block roadsters, ’59 Caddy’s & underwear, but things that go bang/poof, beer & girlfriends gotta be new. Know ya just got your TX & really lookin’ forward ta swappin’ “fish stories”. After 2 years of wrasslin’ w/Mr. Nasty, on a good day at the Jr. Sniper 20 yrd trainin’ range, w/no wind (yeah, it’s indoors, but I’m runnin’ outa excuses) I can put 10 in .250, but the amount of time & effort it takes ta get there, could be put ta better use huntin’ down new future ex girlfriends!?! Congratz on your TX, bud. Now go shoot it & quit teasin’ me!
                Shoot/ride safe.
                Beaz



              • Hmmm, one of my ex’s useta say the same thing, butt only when I was nekkid…
                Ms. Edith, thanx for the response, I’m honored. Yeah, when ya don’t even know enough ta know whatcha don’t know only thing ya can offer is a little comic relief. Thanx for toleratin’ me & lettin’ me sit at the big table.


          • Try the “mild” .357Magnum from a first generation T/C Contender — with first generation “thumb rest” grip…

            That grip design may have been excellent when using a .22 rimfire barrel — but on anything with decent recoil, it attempts to dislocate the base of the thumb. It’s a broad circular arch, and rather than pressing into the web of the hand the sides of the arch press against the joints.

            My first accessory purchase was a neoprene Pachmayr grip which was much narrower at the point of contact (having a collapsible air pocket in the back doesn’t hurt either).


            • Wilfraed,

              Stock and grip shape is everything! The Swiss K31 kicks like a mule because the stock is too shot. Same for the 91/30 Mosin. The SMLE is often said to kick hard, but there are butts with 4 different lengths. Get one long enough and the recoil is very light.

              B.B.


  2. BB your making me think of times past again.
    Through out time there has been all kinds of things told to me by other people. In all aspects of life.

    But just referring to the hobbies I have done; an interesting thing has always happened. There has always (and I mean always) been one person that tends to stand out from the others and tell it how it really is.
    When I was getting started in R/C planes Clerance that owned the Hobby shop up the road from my house who was already close to 76 yrs. old when I was 15.
    I guess if you will he took me under his wing (no pun intended) but that man taught me alot about the R/C hobby as well as drag racing.
    It definitely bothered me when he passed away. There are other people also that kind of stood out too.
    My Dad which informed me of many things through out my life. Again way bothered me when he passed. Here’s the problem though where I failed. They probably new that I appreciated there help but I never said It. Too late now.

    But here’s the funny thing about something my Dad and Clerance both said. (they knew each other since they were younger and I don’t think they got together and made this up to tell me this)
    They said just because somebody says something is supposed to work one way; if you think otherwise then try what you think and see what happens.

    Well I have followed that philosophy too many times. And I’m not saying that people have told me bad information. But I’m grateful that there has been those certain special people through time that have been there with the honest answers. Even when I didn’t want to accept that answer.

    All I can say is this is probably the most honest blog site that I have seen. Not putting the other sites down because there is useful info there too. At least everybody here has inputs to get the things being discussed worked out. And that’s what it takes to make something successful. I like it.

    And I always want to keep learning and I still get taught lessons everyday in ways that I thought would never even be.

    BB excellent blog again. Thanks.


  3. I too have discovered that word of mouth does not always translate to real life. i was told that if you put washers or a heavy duty spring behind the piston it will shoot super fast, well that may be so a little with air rifles that have the swept volume in front of the piston to cope with that. But what it mainly does is tend to make your rifle kick like a mule and become wildly innacurate.

    At the moment i’m working on an old BSA Mercury in .22 and since i put in a new Titan spring the accuracy is all over the place, they were never designed to go above 10.5 ft/lb in the first place so i will have to lob off a few coils. However there have been some very good technical tests and reports on spring and piston mass carried out in a popular British air gun mag recently, and these people really go into detail on these things.

    So the jist is, from personal experience and solid research i should be able to short stroke the piston for more swept volume and this will leave me more space to mess around with different spring diameters and lengths, and piston weight. The theory being that a spring with a smaller diameter wire could have more preload and would give the piston a softer velocity and cut down on recoil and piston bounce, and hopefully give me a classic British air rifle that shoots at sub 12ft/lb and is very accurate. Well that’s the idea anyway.

    TTFN

    Best wishes, Wing Commander, Sir Nigel Tetlington-Smythe


  4. B.B.,

    That’s the proof that public opinion must be listened to and considered, but not always followed.
    I’ve seen some myths crash myself:

    PCP is inherently much more accurate that SPP – well, that actually depends on specimen in question and shooter.
    Diana 54 is a scope killer – no, if you use a more or less quality scope and mount it correctly
    RWS means an epitome of quality – no, with slanted front posts, cracking springs and stocks and “watercolor” bluing, and especially after touching Air Arms production :)
    CO2 is for cheap weak plinkers – no, after owning hot-rodded C62
    “I’ve seen a 500-atm PCP that shoots like Ma Deuce” – err… Well, let me touch it or I doubt if it can ever exist.
    “MP-512 is a cheap plinker that cannot hit a barn’s side unless shot touching it with the muzzle” – surprisingly – no, in adequate hands and after some tuning it turns out to be a very good and precise rifle.
    “MOAR PAWAH!!! Hatsan ruleZ!” – well, it’s better to hit a fly in the eye at 16J than to miss an elephant at 32J and ultra-magnum springers seem to be devoid of accuracy.

    One’s own experience is still the best teacher.

    duskwight


  5. Lately (or maybe since I’m becoming more knowledgeable about airguns), I’ve been seeing a lot of negativity on the airgun forums–the popular ones. Seems folks are always putting down and severely criticizing the higher end airguns. I’m not sure if it’s jealousy, envy or whatever. Notably, the new Walther LGV’s. “oh, they’re crap, plastic triggers, bad sights, twangy springs….” Seems folks are quick to jump on the wagon because a friend of a cousin who knows a guy who read about….

    The forums are becoming more and more disappointing because of this. At least I know when I come here, there is empirical research and folks who have hands-on experience doing what they are talking about. I’ve also bought guns because of what I’ve read here, and so far have not been disappointed.

    It’s a friendly and knowledgeable lot on this forum. I have a lot of respect for all who post here. When they say something they back it up with hands-on experience and facts; not because they heard it on the internet somewhere.

    Thank you B.B. for your dedication to this blog, and thank you also, fellow followers; you make an enjoyable sport even more enjoyable for your experience and research.


  6. The old story of a 12 ga kicking like a mule comes from young kids shooting old Iver Johnson single shot guns. They are light so if you load one with a Max load 1 1/2 oz. shell and hold it a half inch from your shoulder it will light up your world!

    Don’t ask me how I know. :)

    Mike


    • Mike, I shot one that was worse than that. My old man had a 10 ga magnum 3 1/2″ barrel for a TC 87 rifle he owned. That one really would wake you up.


      • My Mossberg 100 ATR bolt action will wake you up as well. I have fired this thing since I own it and I can tell you it has a very heavy kick. I fire it once or twice and I don’t want it to hit me again.


    • Back in the early 70s, when my father bought his Browning A-5 12 gauge we went out to waste a box of shells (at stationary tin cans, in the bottom of a canyon, were the police were unlikely to appear). Being a semi-auto, it did not come with a rubber recoil pad.

      As I recall, my brother fired it /once/.

      My father fired it four or five times.

      I finished off the box of shells.

      Later that evening: my brother had a big nasty bruise, my father had some soreness, and I… was fine.

      Best guess is that my brother left an air gap for the gun to recoil into, and my father wasn’t fully shouldered either. In the meantime, I had it fully in the pocket, and weighed so little that I just did the “bend like a reed” motion.


  7. The fiction of the .44 Magnum revolver being the most powerful handgun in the world also hit Norway. I was very, very nervous when i bought a 6″ Colt Anaconda and tried it the first time. I too expected that the front sight would hit me hard in the forehead! It did not happen, and the accuracy was great.

    Another fiction is that handguns (especially big bore revolvers) are not accurate at longer distances than 25 yards. At 109 yards (100 meters) I am able to get 6 shots within a circle of 4″ (10 cm) from my 6″ Colt Anaconda .44 Mag with Leupold handgun scope (2,5-8 x 32mm). I rest the end of the barrel at a piece of wood (2″x4″). There are no change on impact (for me) when I rest my Anaconda on wood or bipods (there goes another fiction, too! :-) Please note: It is vital that the grip does not rest at anything, and that it also has some space for recoil!
    (In my hand loads in .44 Mag I use 250 grs Mimek bullets of casted lead and 16,5 grs of Vihtavuori N110 powder.)


    • GunsmithHunter,

      Thanks for the load data! I assume that is a hot load?

      I haven’t tried Vihtavuori power yet, but I hear many good things about it. There is now some good load data here in the U.S., and the powder is very easy to get. I will have to try it.

      B.B.


      • It is not a hot load, rather soft and safe in my revolver. I have tried loads from 16 to 18,5 grains with Vihtavuori N110. A police officer I know also tried Hogdon H110 in both his Ruger Super Redhawk in .44 and .454 with good results with 250 and 300 grains Mimek cast lead bullets. The 300 grains bullets had gas cheeks.

        You should try the Vihtavuori powders (made in Finland). I do not use anything else in my rifles and handguns. The quality is superb!

        The Vithavuori plant has recently been told to install an environment friendly system that will cost them about 100 million dollars to fulfill. Who do you think have to pay the bill in the end? What a sweet way to get rid of all shooting sports for ever!!!

        Eddie


      • BB,

        I use VV N110 in my .44 mag loads. About 21 gr pushing a 240 gr xtp or silhouette. Not a soft load, but it did well in my DE before I got rid of it and now does well in my Win 94ae guide gun. Vihtavouri costs almost twice what Hodgdon is, but because of that it’s more available! And it’s extruded, so it doesn’t make the mess when metering that H110 ball powder makes. I like the stuff!

        /Dave


        • /Dave,

          I’ve been thinking about trying it for a couple years. Now that powder is harder to get, I might take the plunge.

          Anyone have experience with it for a .357 Magnum? I have an S&W .44 Special that I don’t want to load too hot, but my Desert Eagle .357 want to be loaded as hot as possible. So that’s where I would try it. I use H110 at present.

          B.B.


          • I am using 14.5 grains of 2400 with a mag primer with a 158 JHP. With a 125 grain JHP I go up to 16.0 grains of the same 2400. The loads aren’t max so you can go up a bit if needed. Your mileage may vary!!

            Mike


            • Mike,

              That’s a good one. I have used 2400 for 40 years and love it. I bought a 4-pound canister before the craziness began. So I’m in good shape there.

              Thanks,

              B.B.


  8. It is not a hot load, rather soft and safe in my revolver. I have tried loads from 16 to 18,5 grains with Vihtavuori N110. A police officer I know also tried Hogdon H110 in both his Ruger Super Redhawk in .44 and .454 with good results with 250 and 300 grains Mimek cast lead bullets. The 300 grains bullets had gas cheeks.

    You should try the Vihtavuori powders (made in Finland). I do not use anything else in my rifles and handguns. The quality is superb!

    The Vithavuori plant has recently been told to install an environment friendly system that will cost them about 100 million dollars to fulfill. Who do you think have to pay the bill in the end? What a sweet way to get rid of all shooting sports for ever!!! :-(

    Eddie


  9. Nothing beats personal experience. Even if you take someone’s word on something, you could still be making a mistake. Might as well venture out (of course with some research) of you own.


  10. “The .22lr is inherently inaccurate, Kel Tec makes quality weapons, & Obama will bring about much needed change…..” I could go on, but these are a few of the outright lies that pop immediately to mind. I remember putting off purchasing reloading equipment for the longest time simply because some yahoo claimed factory loads were the only way to shoot safely and that I’d risk blowing my head off if I rolled my own.
    Stupidity knows no boundary.


    • DD,

      Actually, you do risk that, but only if you’re extremely careless about what you’re doing! I was actually told that I couldn’t use handloads at one range because they’re “too dangerous”. I never went back there…

      /Dave


  11. Actually, a Benjamin pump-up just make a cracking sound if you pump it up more than you ought — something inside breaking might make a sad cracking sound! LOL.

    I find it interesting that among folks with actual experience with firearms, the myths tend to be of the exceeding power of certain weapon’s fearsome recoil. Hollywood movies, conversely, typically perpetuate the opposite myth, that guns of any sort, rifles, pistols, submachine guns, shotguns, you name it, have no recoil at all, and can be effortlessly kept directly on target for extreme rapid-fire. (This is especially true if the shooter is firing from a speeding vehicle or jumping through the air.)

    Here’s a myth: “Anything under .40 S&W or .45 ACP has no stopping power.”

    That depends on the size of the person being “stopped,” how far away that person is, and where the bullet lands. I know someone who permanently stopped a full grown man (with a full grown hand cannon) with a .32 fired from a small auto at maybe five yards. I also knew a woman who permanently stopped her abusive husband from beating her by frantically shooting a .38 Special.

    Another myth: a person can humanely dispatch a forty pound wild boar with a .177 caliber alloy pellet fired from a spring-powered air rifle.

    Yet another: even if used carefully by a trained, experienced shooter, black powder is just too plain dangerous to shoot.

    Yet another: celebrating something by shooting a gun in the air is cool.

    The truth, of course, is that what goes up must come down, and sometimes it comes down at terminal velocity. Definitely not cool.

    My final myth: “Don’t worry; this gun is unloaded.”

    Here’s one that is often true, according to Mythbusters Jamie and Adam: A person swimming a couple feet under water has a greatly increased chance of surviving gunshots from above and at an angle. They found that with multiple types of ammo/guns, the fast & hot lead fragmented as it hit the watter and traveled a few inches in it. The exception that they found? The M1 Garand shooting its 30-06 ammo can kill someone just as dead when he’s underwater as if he were on land.

    Michael


    • I don’t even buy all of the stuff that mythbusters put out.
      They did a test of a bunch of cans of different stuff in a car to see if they would blow up in the hot sun (including soda pop). Well….they were in sunny southern California and using a black car . Nothing blew up.
      BUT… My wife’s blue Cavalier here in northwest Ohio proved that wrong. More than half of a 12 pack of Vernors in the trunk let go. What a mess.

      twotalon


      • TwoTalon,

        First, I’ve learned that whenever you give a reason to question something, one ought to think about it for a while before responding! :^)

        I respect the Mythbusters honest, earnest efforts to apply the scientific method. But I will immediately agree with you that sometimes, well, I often disagree with their testing “protocols.”

        For example, in their knife vs, gun scenario, they assumed (absurdly) that the gun-wielding defender would need to cock his gun before aiming and firing it at his knife-wielding attacker. HELLO? Double-action!

        They also presumed that the knife-attacker would begin the attack 20 or so feet away. Yeah, RIGHT. A killer with a knife doesn’t show the knife until he is a couple feet away, which is why I agree with their conclusion (knife usually wins), albeit not with their presumptions.

        And before anyone points out the absolute truth that knives are generally poor as fight-ending weapons, I recall this episode involved a large knife thrust upwards into the abdomen, which usually IS an effective quick-kill method, at least according to my Army Ranger former housemate of 30 years ago. (His advice for personal defense was a 12 gauge in the house, a Ka-bar in the glove compartment, and a Buck 110 on the belt.)

        Nevertheless, this particular gun vs. water test seemed to me quite carefully constructed, and both Jamie (a former Navy Seal, small arms expert, and advanced diving instructor) and Adam (well-experienced with firearms) were surprised that the myth was largely confirmed.

        And regarding any contents under pressure in a super-hot environment, I always assume worst-case scenario. I am with you COMPLETELY. The Mythbusters blew that one.

        Hey, today it is supposed to get / maybe did get up to 130 degrees Fahrenheit in Death Valley, AZ. A closed automobile in those circumstances could probably develop an interior temperature well over 200 degrees Fahrenheit. That is hot enough to kill most microorganisms (and large organisms!), and is close to the boiling point at sea level.

        My point is some of their experiments are far better constructed than are others.

        Michael


    • Michael,

      Here’s a myth: “Anything under .40 S&W or .45 ACP has no stopping power.”

      That depends on the size of the person being “stopped,” how far away that person is, and where the bullet lands. I know someone who permanently stopped a full grown man (with a full grown hand cannon) with a .32 fired from a small auto at maybe five yards. I also knew a woman who permanently stopped her abusive husband from beating her by frantically shooting a .38 Special.

      Tom & I just came back from the indoor range. He shot his .380 Magnum Research Mini Desert Eagle pistol. I shot my .45 Glock and our .45 Taurus 1911. The holes made by the .45 bullets are significantly larger and much more impressive than the holes made by the .380. I will not carry a gun unless it’s a .45. I don’t want to have to spray a bunch of bullets to stop an evil person. I want to be able to do it with 1 or 2 shots. Also, when a perp is flying high on drugs, smaller calibers may not be as effective. On the other hand, a .45 will do some damage. When it comes to self-defense, I’m looking for a sure thing, not the least possible caliber I can use.

      Edith


      • Edith,

        This is EXACTLY the sort of thing I find fascinating that comes up on this forum/blog!

        Your confidence in, and perhaps only in, the .45 is so common as to warrant the old, “Well, tens of millions of Americans can’t be wrong . . .” reasoning.

        Yesterday my wife and I were behind a car going into a Sonic parking lot. He had a bumper sticker that said, “.45 — why bother shooting twice?”

        My wife asked what that meant, and I told her about the devotion to .45 ACP of millions of shooters. She asked why there was such a following for that particular round (her word was “bullet”). I answered, “Tried, tested, and proven.” Then I added something along the lines of, “A person who gets shot with a .45 always drops and never gets up.”

        I happen to know more than a few peace officers. Each has his or her own preference and a reason for it, whatever it is. I have come to believe that each and every one of ‘em makes a good point.

        A former student of mine, as she was about to graduate Criminal Justice, chose 9mm because it was plentiful and cheap. As a future canine officer, her expectation, wise or not, was that she would probably not ever be in a firefight, and if so, she would almost never be “in the field” alone. As for NOT being “in the field,” she would choose not to carry a firearm if she were not a peace officer, as I recall. (I might be wrong, but in my state I believe actively employed/sworn peace officers must have ready access to their weapon at all times, even when off-duty, unless otherwise prohibited by a higher jurisdiction [court, airplane, etc.])

        Another student of mine, and I forget whether this was a civilian or Criminal Justice student / future cop, preferred 9mm because it meant an extra round or two in his weapon.

        A colleague of mine in the Criminal Justice program, a deputized officer of the law who, as far as I know, carries any time he is awake, swears by .357 magnum. He told me once he prefers the softer recoil of a .45, but he wants the flatter trajectory of the .357 “in the field,” which I interpret to mean as “real life, not at the range.” A former colleague of mine in Criminal Justice preferred .40 S&W, because, he argued, it was a happy medium between .357 mag and .45.

        Yet another former colleague of mine in Criminal Justice (who before he became a teacher was a police officer in a small town and arrested an FBI’s Number One Wanted bad guy and received a signed personal letter of congratulations/gratitude from J. EDGAR HOOVER!!!) would not move on from his patrolman’s .38 Special for anything in the world.

        For what it’s worth, in my state the State Police, as I understand it, must choose between .357 magnum (if they opt for revolver or semi-auto) or .45 ACP (if they opt for a semi-auto).

        The more I read and talk to folks about this, the more I think that there is no universal “best” for each individual. Rather, I believe that each individual has a “best” for him or her. That said, those that I know who have been forced to take life with a firearm would probably swear by what they used, including those who did so with a .32 and .38 Special.

        Maybe what a person feels the most comfortable with, the most proficient and capable with, and the most confident with, is the very best for that particular person. I suppose that statement is idiotically simple and self-evident. If so, I beg all of you to forgive me for my lack of personal experience and reliance on experience of the second-hand variety.

        Michael


        • Due to the length of the cartridge, .45ACP (and 10mm) are pretty much relegated to single-stack magazines — few people have hands large enough to handle the length and width of a double-stack in those calibers.

          Standard magazine for the 1911 is 7-8 rounds in .45ACP, maybe one higher in 10mm.

          In contrast, the common (these days) 9mm semi-auto is double-stack, and capacities often start at 11-12 rounds (and I have a third-party magazine for my ancient S&W 459 that uses a “watch spring” to pull-up the follower, rather than a compressed coil spring pushing up) which actually handles 14-15 rounds.

          The .40S&W (a 10mm short <G>) was based on the FBI 10mm “light” loading. It uses a 9mm length allowing for shorter grip frame and double stack magazine. Even it gives 11 rounds in most magazines (two of my three P99 mags were PRCa 10-round limited, but the third was shipped from out-of-state and holds the higher capacity; I don’t recall what my S&W 4006 magazines hold, I think they are pre-limit).

          Modern 9mm ammo may be sufficient, and if I ever get up the energy to sign up for the CCW class, I may end up buying a smaller 9mm (I’m somewhat cursed — all my current pistols are “duty pistol” sized). Otherwise I tend to favor the .40S&W; even the first loadings nearly 20 years ago tended to give ideal performance [no punch through with small holes -- the bane of old 9mm FMJ; little risk to bystanders... one reported shooting had the bullet pass through the front layers of clothing, through the chest cavity, and most of the way out of the back, stopping at the t-shirt]).

          As I recall, the ballistics of the .40S&W also come close to matching those of one of the old west best performers — the .38-40 (which, unlike the .38Special, was closer to .40 caliber bullet… the .38Special is a .357 caliber, and 9mm is .355 caliber — and yes, if you consider that progression 9mm.355, 10mm.40, then the .45ACP is essentially 11mm).


          • Wulfraed,

            Is .45ACP .44 caliber?

            I’ve read about a revolver with a new design that reduces felt recoil, I think it’s called the Rhino. The barrel is much lower in this design, I believe aligning with the chamber at the bottom of the cylinder instead of at the top. I’ve read comments online from people who’ve shot it in .357 and say it feels like shooting .38 Special.

            Michael


            • No, it isn’t.

              It takes a bullet .452 (a bit over 11mm). The .44 revolver loads use (per wikipedia) .429 bullet (just under 11mm) [which would really make them a .43 <G> -- but then we get into the hassle of whether the designer named it on the groove or the land dimensions of the bore; the parent .44 Special is reported to use a {lead} bullet of .432; its parent .44 Russian was black powder and .429 bullet; but it was derived from the .44 American using a .434 bullet...]


  12. No, the 10-guage isn’t the monster of legend. If some smiling buffoon offers to let you shoot his 4-bore, though, you might want to pass.

    Jim


  13. Back shooting again. This will be a slow but steady return, first evening ten shots. Second more than thirty rounds, most in a quarter sized circle. A bit high, took nerve to crank the knob two full times around. Last few shots inside the eight ring, as I get arm strength back I’ll get better. Two of last four shots were clean tens (rested; I want no more credit than I earn.)

    It’s so damn much fun to be back!

    Details one day soon; not quite yet. But good group size.

    The doc thinks I’ll need a kidney transplant one of these days. Wife not suitable; daughter may be. Maybe I’ll start begging if need be. Take your meds, even if they ain’t fun!! You don’t want to travel in my footsteps!

    All for tonight.

    Best
    Pete


  14. One thing I’ve been is inspired by this blog. Especially by the blogs on DAQ rifles , Duskwights gun, and cast bullet shooting pcps.


  15. Kevin

    I was going to write to tell about the results of my cleaning the Marauder Pistol barrel in hopes of improving it’s accuracy. I did clean it as best I could but it is now confession time.

    I have only been into air guns since last August. In that time the only gunsmithing I have done is cosmetic. That being said I must confess I did not know how to remove the barrel from the gun so that I could properly clean it with JB Bore Paste. The best I could do was use a pull cable with Ballistol sprayed into the barrel and cleaning patches pulled through. While I did get a tremendous amount of black gunk out of it I know it is not enough. Therefore my results were not very good. It did improve the accuracy to about 1″ at 25 yards for about 8 of 10 shots but still threw off a lot of fliers from 1/4″ to 2″. In all honesty I am a very decent shot. I can get 1/4″ to 3/4″ groups consistently depending on the distance.

    This is embarrassing for me but if I am going to clean the barrel properly I will need instructions on how to remove the barrel. I searched the internet for these instructions (especially a video) but was unsuccessful in finding anything. The exploded views show the order in which parts are taken off or put on but not necessarily which parts to remove or how they are to be removed.

    Anyway, the task is incomplete. If anyone knows where I can find instructions on removing the barrel I would greatly appreciate it. Sorry it took me so long to tell you this but as I said I am a bit embarrassed about it. I can usually figure things like this out on my own but I am afraid of damaging the gun by not knowing what I am doing. Thanks for all of your help.

    G & G


    • G&G sounds to me like your not removing the breech from the maintube.

      If you don’t it wont allow you to slip the barrel out.
      The transfer port locks it in.

      Go to the Crosman website and at the bottom right of the home page is the spot you click on for their manuals and prints. You may already now about the website but I figured I let you know. Then you can see the blow up of the parts better.

      There is 4 Allen bolts that hold the receiver to the maintube. You need to remove those and lift the receiver and barrel off the main tube.(don’t lose your transfer port or the seals) Then take the 3 setscrews out of the top of the receiver and then the barrel should slip out of the receiver.

      When you put it back together you need to turn the receiver upside down so you can see that the transfer port hole in the receiver is lined up when you slip the barrel back in. Put your transfer port in the hole of the receiver to contact the barrel. Make sure the barrel is lined up to the receiver real good. Then tighten the 3 small set screws on top of the receiver then the receiver and barrel are one assembly again.
      Get your seals in place. Put the transfer port in the maintube then set the receiver barrel assembly back on the maintube. Install the 4 Allen bolts and you should be back in business.

      Hope this helps and I’m probably not explaining as well as could be. But let me know what happens.


      • Gunfun 1

        Thanks very much. Now at least I have some idea where to start. I did not even know I needed to remove the receiver to get the barrel off. It’s more complicated than I would have thought. But, I’ve got nothing to lose so I’ll give it a shot. I’ll let you know what happens. Thanks again.

        G & G


        • G&G no problem.
          I just took the barrel off of my .177 cal. Marauder rifle the other day for something I’m getting ready to do it. Both guns are pretty similar in design.

          But there is something that I found out from trying to get my Marauder pistol to shoot accurately also.
          Maybe you don’t need to through with all of that.
          I found if you loosen the barrel shroud just a little bit it helps. Maybe just a 1/8 or 1/4 turn. You don’t have to take nothing apart that way.

          Maybe with the cleaning you already done the above trick may help. It did with mine without having to clean the barrel.

          Hope you get it.


    • G & G,

      Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I’ve been out of town and didn’t have internet access.

      First, want to thank you for the update. Please don’t feel embarassed. You’re trying and that’s what gives me hope. Together we can get your pistol shooting as it should. If we all knew everything about airguns there wouldn’t be a need for this blog.

      Gunfun 1 gave you great instructions and resources for getting the barrel off of your marauder pistol. The exploded view on crosmans site was very useful when we took the pistol apart.

      I want to give you strong encouragement to remove this barrel and clean it for two reasons:

      1-A pull through with ballistol isn’t sufficient to get ultimate accuracy. You really need to give it the jb bore paste treatment and the barrel should be removed to accomplish this.

      2-As I stated previously the jb bore paste treatment may not result in the supreme accuracy that your pistol is capable of giving you. A new $10.00? barrel from Crosman may be necessary. Once you learn how easy it is to remove the barrel to clean it you will be empowered and unafraid to order and install a new barrel if necessary.

      Please don’t give up on your marauder pistol. Some of them take a little extra effort to shoot well but they can shoot very well.

      kevin


      • Kevin and G&G please give me a reply how it goes with the Marauder pistol.

        Don’t know about you guy’s but I hate when my guns are down. But let me know Ok.


        • GF1…

          Crosman tends to have some barrel problems. I have been a victim of it too.
          It is frequently said that it is a good idea to buy some extra barrels if you come up with a bad shooter. Try to find one that is good. Trouble is, what if they all come from the same batch ?
          I have been around and around with them on one gun. Their specs are loose on barrels . Their QA and engineers seem oblivious to it. After two different barrels and the go-around, I waited two years to order another barrel to make sure (hopefully) that it would come from a good run. It did. It had rifling , and a bore that was the right size for .177 pellets.

          twotalon


          • I found on my Marauder pistol that the barrel spacer (2220-012 on the Crosman drawing) inside the shroud that slips on the barrel is not true to the shroud cap.

            One of the steps that come with Mike T’s muzzle brakes is that you have to rotate the muzzle brake a little at a time to get the barrel lined up with the brake.
            If you don’t the pellet will clip the side of the brake and make the pellet shoot crazy. That is what I was referring to by loosening the barrel shroud a little On the Marauder pistol.

            Something is wrong with the Marauder pistols though. I have heard of the accuracy problem more than once with them. Including my gun.


            • GF1…

              In theory, when you lob a projectile through ANY hole, or series of holes, that projectile should be perfectly centered….. and any pressure blowing by it should also be perfectly even all the way around. There should be nothing less than perfect symmetry in forces in relation to the direction of motion. Did I really just say that ?

              Where the crap was I ? I am starting to revert to my earlier self when I let my mind get into my mind.
              I need to stop saying things when I get this way. I don’t know how many dimensions that I think in at this point. Maybe should shut down for the night.

              twotalon


              • Twotalon when you get a chance look at the baffles that come with the new Sound Loc Kit from Airforce.
                I believed all along about what you talked about above. Equal pressure where the pellet passes through something.
                The Airforce baffles blow that theory. Look how they are made. I mean up close look. My new Talon SS shoots the same with or without them. But definitely quieter with.


  16. Lately I have seen quite a bit of what you are talking about. I saw a review of the Crosman M4-177 on the crosman site that clamed he could hit a squirrel 1500 meters away with the gun with iron sights. Do I need to tell you just how improbable this is? Even with my Airforce condor I can’t do that. So how is a $70.00 gun going to do that?

    then we get to the politicians. Where to begin? Dianne Feinstein testified before a judiciary committee that she had personally seen a bullet implode and tear the limbs off a child. Jesse Jackson jr. publicly stated that “Assault rifles” could take out entire railroads and bring down aircraft in mid flight. Everything they could think of to say to vilify the “assault rifles” in order to ban them. In reality the rifles in question are not as all dangerous as they are saying. It is the person using them that may be dangerous. In reality “assault rifles” are used in less than 1% of all gun related crimes. In reality an ar15 is just a slightly bigger bore than a .22 on steroids. An ak47 is no more than a .308 short cartridge. They cannot take out a plane in mid flight and can’t stop a train much less destroy one, and if you take one of these feared rifles, load it, take it off safe and set it down on the coffee table and dare it to shoot you, it will lay there and do nothing. So B.B. is right. Don’t believe everything you hear. try it for yourself.


    • John,

      Interesting that it’s ok for “them” to outright lie and pass off falsehoods publicly for their own agenda, but if we commoners make an unintentional mistake, it’s off to court, or public vilification….

      /Dave


      • Yeah. I’dlove to see all these nut cases that vilify guns sent to the unemployment line. Don’t think I won’t be doing everything in my power to make that happen next year.


  17. Ahh B.B., I love it when you get all philosophical.
    Really, I do…you’re at your best when your waxing poetic.
    Also because it usually generates the best feedback.
    Keep up the good work.
    And like others, I’m still annoyed at the old guy who told me about the Slavia 631. Why did he underplay it so much…still my favorite airgun.


  18. Yiiii, I made the lead paragraph. :-) Well, don’t be too surprised at my progress since it is all driven by the blog. Yikes, that story about the metal of the gun crystallizing would have seized my imagination and had me for years. I’ve just disengaged from that exact fear with regard to my military guns. I’ve also managed to overcome my fear that the lack of gas venting in the Mosin can cause the bolt to blown back through the forehead of the shooter as claimed by some. In fact, it was not long ago that I decided to forego the purchase of a Russian army helmet for that very reason. Maybe I’ll still get the helmet as that style is starting to grow on me. It would make me like Lord Helmet of Galaxyquest. Speaking of BS artists, there was an internet story about some U.S. army sniper claiming to be the most deadly individual in American military history having a record of 150 sniping kills, having vanquished over 1200 insurgents by other means, and having fired 7000 rounds of depleted uranium from his Bradley Fighting Vehicle. I’d say he could give some competition to the guy who can shoot a woodchuck at 1300 yards. You can look up this story easily enough. So, if anyone tells you that they were a military sniper, they should be treated with extreme caution.

    For once I am on topic, you guys (and ladies) must see Fast and Furious 6 which I saw last night. This is the movie for you. There is plenty of gun play. Someone tell me how many revolvers with 6 inch barrels have a full underlug. Unless there are any besides the SW 686, then it means that the Rock (the “Samoan Thor”), is carrying my pistol! He uses it to shoot a vending machine and destroy it with one shot. They have a lot of other nice hardware including a stainless Walther PPK, a Sig-Sauer P226 with rails, and AKs in black for the bad guys. There are also cars for all of you car aficionados used with a high degree of skill. These cars are more like projectiles than means of transportation (they go airborne often enough) which seals the connection with shooting–the timing, the concentration, it’s all the same. As was said about Mad Max, they have “the merciless concentration and lightning reflexes that made him the best driver on the pursuit force.”

    There’s also the charms of the Michelle Rodriguez with her smoldering hard number pose. And that is appropriately matched by over-the-top posturing. After getting shot by Rodriguez, Diesel shows up next to her for a street race. She says, “You’ve got some serious guts,” to which he responds in an impossibly deep voice, “So, it’s been said.”

    Her: It looks like I missed you.
    Him (with a smile): I’d say you hit the mark.
    Her: You could lose the car.
    Him (a confident smile)

    I set my sights low for movies but just occasionally, I get surprised.

    But here is the clincher. All of this technology and the convoluted plot that goes with it, all turn on…an airgun. No joke. So, the weekend is young. Get out there and see that movie and thank me for it. :-)

    Matt61


    • Matt,

      That comment about killing the vending machine with one shot reminded me of that song about “Bubba”.

      He shot the jukebox, stopped it with one shot from his .45.

      I love stories of man vs. machine gunplay.

      I used to work with a guy who was always on the lookout for the old, cast metal manual typewriters.

      They made great reactive rifle targets.

      Les


  19. The comment about machine guns had me wondering. Of course that amount of lead makes you think of heavy recoil like in the James Bond film Live and Let Die where a bikiki-clad woman starts shooting what looks like a German MP40 submachine gun and gets herself pushed back over the edge of an oil platform.

    However, the very speed of cycling which is the hallmark of full auto implies that the bolt has to being going forward as fast as it is going backwards to set you up for the next shot–sort of like springers. Once you get up to the extremely high cycling rates of 600 or 800 or higher, I would think that there is not enough time for significant recoil from each shot to be transmitted to your body before it gets cancelled out by the forward motion of the bolt. Medal of Honor winner Marine Sergeant Mitchell Paige claims that he exploited this principle before WWII. He and his fellow machine gunners drilled holes in their bolts and other parts to speed up the cycling action and reduce the recoil. The result was much better accuracy with volley fire at 1000 yards. And maybe that’s why he was able to hold off the “hordes of attacking Japanese” on Guadalcanal mentioned in his citation. So while there is a lot of sound and fury with machine guns, I don’t expect that it would translate directly into recoil. The only machine gun I’ve ever fired was a 30 round belt from an M60 for an ROTC camp in high school. I was shooting prone with the bipod. The experience was impressive and there was recoil but I don’t think it was anything like what you would get by scaling up a single shot with a 30 caliber with a factor derived from the cycling rate.

    Matt61


  20. Well Tom you talked me in to a TX 200 then a Forester Co-ax single stage press both I’d say are equal in quality. Then of all things the knife sharpener you bragged about after the shot show 2 years ago. Which by the way I need another one. Went on a bear hunt this spring in Alaska and both the guides went nuts over it. So I left it with them.

    I see your parents didn’t push you along with your love for guns, similar to mine. My dad said to my wife 30 years ago (He will grow out of that gun thing). The only thing close to that is my single stage pacific press (now Hornady I think) of 50 years has not seen much use lately.

    I love your blog first thing I read it everyday.

    nosignofgrowingup

    Speakski


    • Speakski,

      Well, you just enabled the Enabler! Knowing my recommendations were well-received just encourages me to keep right on doing it.

      B.B.


  21. And speaking of weapons with legendary blow-back, BB, do you remember the Jeep-mounted M-28 and M-29 Davy Crockett, the only weapon with a kill probability of 2.0, the target and the shooter? For those too young, the Davy Crockett was a one kiloton nuke, launched from a bazooka tube. For options it also came in a 10 to 20 ton (yes) yield version using the W-54 warhead, the smallest ever fielded by the US.

    I don’t know whose bright idea the 1kt version was.

    PZ


    • Pete,

      I DO remember the Davy Crockett! I even remember getting Nike Hercules rockets in cereal packages as premiums! That and the deeds to square inches of real estate on the moon!

      Remember that?

      B.B.


      • Oh, yes! I always wondered who “owned” that chunk of lunar real estate from which the bitty little lots were carved… There are still guys around claiming to be arable to name stars after you or your loved one. Those names don’t count, of course.

        Given the number of galaxies that show up in the Hubble deep field pics, you could ‘sell’ suckers the naming rights to whole universes. Given their distance you wouldn’t have to worry about the natives complaining that you picked a locally insulting name either.

        By the time the Nike Herc was in cereal boxes, I was no longer eating cereals with premiums in them. I’m older than BB.

        pete

        – Edith, if I enter the wrong captcha answer, I get into some weird loop where it never accepts a correct solution. Safari browser on an iPad.


        • Hello Pete. So glad to hear of your positive progress, and hope a kidney donor will be found soon. Your positive outlook is a credit to your character, and shows us all how having positive or negative thoughts will affect our health accordingly. Our health is always something we take for granted. However, if you are one of those folk to be diagnosed with a life threatening ailment or loss due to accident, all else pales in significance.
          On the subject of the captcha loop, I have too have had the same experience with submitting a comment and then reading that I have given a wrong captcha. I found this happens when I leave the airgun blog page to look something up, and upon returning, enter the loop. If this happens, I highlight what I have written, then use the cut and paste feature. After I cut my reply, I quit the Pyramyd Air web sight, and when I re-enter, I paste my half hour of two finger typing back in the reply box. When I enter the new captcha, it will accept and post my reply on the subject of the day. I use an imac, so assume the operating system will be similar to your ipad. I hope this will cure your problem.
          Caio Titus


          • Titus,

            Thanks for the support! At times like this friends mean more than I ever thought they could.

            I have a dying MacBook (6 years old and declared “vintage” meaning unsupported and non-repairable by Apple). For some reason it’s immune from that particular glitch, probably because the OS is snow leopard… How do you like the iMac? I’m likely buying one tomorrow to beat the sales tax hike here.

            pz




          • I had the same thing happen to me but it was a while ago and I don’t remember what device I was on. I think it was my old iPhone.
            I had to copy the text and reload the page and start over.

            You’re not alone or crazy Pete!

            J-F



  22. Off topic.

    Did I just make a mistake? Well maybe multiple mistakes.
    I was looking to see if any of the AirForce guns made it in stock yet. And guess what Pyramiyd has some available now.
    Almost ordered a Condor SS. But kept debating back and forth if I should get it or a Talon SS. (I would have all kinds of guns if I could afford them)

    Well here is the first mistake I think; I didn’t get the Condor SS.

    Here is where I wonder if I made the second mistake. I just ordered the Talon SS in blue (don’t have any blue guns yet and I like blue) I would definitely get a purple one if they made it though. I’m just stupid when it comes down to having purple stuff.

    And maybe third mistake. I got the gun with the standard PCP tank (not the spin lock) and ordered the male quick disconnect adapter to fill it with .

    And also the sound deadening kit for the .177 cal. (yep got it in .177cal. also) I hope the sound deadening kit works with the gun I ordered. I guess that is a older style gun? Or maybe not? I’m guessing the (new style guns) are the guns coming with the spinlock tanks now. A little bit confused about that with the sound deadening kit.

    I got the .177 cal. because I figured I would get the bigger cal. barrels and sound deadener upgrades later on after I figure out how to use and setup the gun.

    Did I make a mistake or what? I hope not. I’m looking forward to getting this gun. Hope it makes it before the 4th of July Holiday.


    • On second thought, maybe I misunderstood you.
      Did you order PY-A-303 , or PY-A-3843 ? If you ordered anything else, then refer to my other post.

      twotalon


      • twotalon.
        I got the PY-A-3843. So I believe that should be good. Right? That was one of the worries.
        The other thing that confused me was about the silencer kit I ordered also. They call it the (Sound Loc Kit)
        It says in the description that it works with the old style barrel and baffle only. So I thought maybe the new batch of guns coming out may already have the system installed or something???

        And I guess if I change to a .22 or .25 cal. barrel. I need to make sure it is the same length as the .177 barrel. Then looks like I will have to get the Sound loc Kit that works for the .22 and .25 cal. And I think that kit works for the .20 cal. also. Don’t remember for sure if the .20 cal was included also with the .22 and .25 kit.

        I will probably just stay with the .177 for a while anyway till I learn about tuning the gun. I don’t know the Air force guns yet. So kind of looking forward to that.

        Let me know if you have any info about the Sound Loc Kits if you would. It will help out.

        And thanks twotalon.


        • I did not know that the TSS ever had baffles. Mine did not have them.
          The fill adapter you ordered should work if you have a QD on your hose.

          twotalon


          • twotalon.
            I never owned a AirForce gun yet so I don’t know about the the baffles either. I guess I will find out whats inside when I get ready to put the Sound Loc Kit in. Not going to install that for a little bit though.
            I want to shoot the gun completely stock for awhile to get use to its characteristics.

            And yes I do have the female quick disconnect on my pump and tank. All my Marauders and Crosman pcp’s have the male Foster fittings.

            I know the Crosman and Benjamin guns pretty good. I tend to stay with what I know works. But always wanted a AirForce gun. So here goes another learning curve.
            I wonder if AirForce has a parts list and drawings on their site. Haven’t looked yet. I need to do that.


            • GF1

              AF will sell you parts if they have them in stock. They don’t want much for them either.
              I don’t know if I will bother with a sound lock kit or not. Not going to upgrade to a spin lock either.
              When it comes to filling tanks…… when in doubt , top it off. It is not hard to keep track of how many shots you have gone through. A rough guess is all you need. No reason for it to be a big deal.

              They shoot the best at full power. Don’t bother cranking it up any higher than you need to get the velocity to max out. It will just get louder and use up air faster.

              I don’t remember you saying what caliber .
              For .177, try CPL, CPH, Kodiak/Baracuda, JSB 8.4 and 10.3.
              For .22, try CP, JSB 16 and 18, Kodiak/Baracuda.
              Make sure to lube the CP if you shoot them in either caliber. They will lead the barrels fast at these speeds. Lube them with anything you want to….just do it or you will be doing an awful lot of cleaning.

              twotalon


              • twotalon
                I ordered everything through Pyramyd Air already. That’s what I was talking about.
                (if I just made a mistake)
                And yep your right no big deal about the tanks pressure. That’s what I figured I would do.
                Is fill each time before I shoot so I can keep the gun consistent.

                I got the .177 cal. and yes I know about over powering from the Marauders I have. Its all a balance.
                And thanks for the pellet recommendations.


                • GF1…

                  Another tip or two….

                  After a fill, or leaving it sit overnight, shoot it once or twice with the pellets that you use. The valve has to be bounced to settle right. Experience will tell you if you have to waste one or two pellets. You might also practice this with other PCP guns. Depends on the gun. Just expect it. You will get a weak shot or a flier if the valve has not settled right. Same goes for power wheel adjustments …..shoot one or two pellets after an adjustment. The gun will tell you how many you have to waste.

                  twotalon


    • Yeah, gf1…. You messed up getting a blue gun… Send it to me and I’ll see that it’s disposed of properly…

      /Dave


      • Ha ha Dave. Sorry but nope. I m going to keep this gun for a long, long time.

        And if they made a purple gun I really would buy it. Maybe AirForce guns could make some special edition anniversary editions in some unique colors.


        • GF1…

          You could always go down to ChinaMart and buy a selection of outrageously colored tape and do a job on it. Add a few “Hello Kitty” stickers for good measure. Fewer swat team visits when people see you when you are shooting where you should not be doing it.

          twotalon


          • Now it sounds like were talking about the California gun laws. Make them green,red blue and clear so they ain’t confused for a (real gun). Hmm, every gun I held felt real to me?

            But really when you anodize aluminum it looks nice.

            And why do you think I always talk about how I like quiet guns. :)


            • GF1…

              My Talons look a bit purple in full sun, but I don’t care.
              In town…. unincorporated village with no village ordinances…I could legally get away with a lot of things. Now we get into “quiet”. Right? I will stand , or sit in a lawn chair in the front yard and plug starlings in the maple tree right in front of anybody. I don’t get TOO noisy about it. My neighbors don’t mind. I would not mind taking out a starling once with 1,500 ft-lb or more just for kicks, but why bother anyone who works night shift .

              Now… the “quiet” thing….
              A TSS is NOT quiet. That’s a thing by itself. But critters/vermin…. sound is a funny thing. The volume and quality of sound have a distinct effect on the ones you miss. An example would be a “sharp” sound that scares the crap out of a starling flock that you want to come back after you plug one. Also you do not want the sound to be something that they instinctively avoid. A dull “thup” does not bother them much. A sharp “snap” no matter if it is loud or not freaks them and they avoid the area.

              Out in the country where nobody cares…
              Make all the noise you want, but the same rules apply. The critters and other vermin respond to noise the same way. People respond to same too when they hear it. It can sound dangerous, or something not worth thinking about. Depends on the sound.

              If I don’t make much sense at the moment, I am pretty well wasted on Jim Beam Black.

              twotalon


              • All true. I live in a pretty good spot also. Certain noises will spook animals and others noises wont.

                I just done this today messing around. We have bird feeders for the song birds and humming birds.
                But we will get flocks of starlings and black birds that come in to eat the song bird food. (the song birds wont come when they are there)
                But most of them left and there was three starlings and two black birds eating on the ground by the feeders. I was about 60 yrds. or so away. I shot about 15yrds. to the left of them and they didn’t fly away. Kept shooting closer and closer. Finally flew away after I was about 2yrds. away from them.
                but yes different sounds get their attention.

                Jim Beam Black. Don’t make fun of me but just finished up the Coors Light and ready for some serious stuff; 1843 or Wild Turkey 101. Cant remember what I got left. But here I go.


  23. Sometimes even somebody like me can find inspiration here on a thing that I’m sure was never meant to be inspiring. I have a pocket cannon. It’s a .30 cal cannon that fits in your hand. I have been firing the thing with pyrodex and a cannonball but it has been a bit wimpy with the ball only going 10-40 yards. Last night I started experimenting a bit with it as it is close to 4th of July and people are getting happy with fireworks so nobody bats an eye at a cannon being fired in city limits. The inspiration I found was in B.B. talking about how they used to use a fabric patch around a musket ball to get it to fire and be easier to load. So instead of loading the pyrodex then putting in a wad of paper and setting in the cannon ball I started to grind the pyrodex finer and patch the cannon ball so it was a good tight fit. Sure enough I put enough pressure behind the cannonball to get a nice big boom and fire that cannonball at least 100 yards into a marsh behind my apartment at around 1200 fps. I fired it at night too which was impressive due to the fire plume that this thing put out that stretched out at least 6 feet. The thing that makes all this amusing and so humorous is that in this liberal/socialist society we have become that fears guns so much that it punishes kids for a half eaten pop tart that an adult thinks looks kind of like a gun and kids go to jail for wearing an NRA shirt with a picture of a gun, all this is taking place just spitting distance from a school and nobody is aware that it’s happening. If school was in session I have no doubt that there would be a full on swat team with tanks, helicopters and armored cars and of course every available news crew in the country for a tiny little reproduction cannon that fires slingshot ammo. And of course liberals in Washington D.C. would be trying to ban everything down to half eaten pop tarts all because I was firing a tiny little cannon that is all of 2 inches long into a swamp.



      • no, but I did turn an estes rocket into a bazooka type thing once. It was an awesome toy. Load an estes rocket into this tube, and fire it at a target just like you’d do a bazooka off the shoulder. It was just about as unpredictable as a bazooka too but less lethal.


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