by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
FWB Sport air rifle
This report covers:
• Oil the rifle
• Some improvements over the 124
• The spring was dry!
• Velocity testing — Crosman Premier lites
• Air Arms Falcon pellets
• H&N Baracuda Match pellets
• Firing behavior after shooting
• In the future…
Today, we’re going to try something recommended by Gene Salvino in the tech department of Pyramyd AIR. He told me that it’s possible to quiet the new Feinwerkbau Sport air rifle by means of externally applied lubrication. In other words, no disassembly is required. That would be a huge plus to those shooters who don’t want to disassemble their airguns.
Oil the rifle
Gene’s recommendation is to use gear oil — specifically 80-140 weight gear oil through the cocking slot. He said the mainsprings in several of the guns he’s seen are very dry. Gear oil seems to be just the ticket to calm them down and get the rifles shooting smoothly.
I removed the stock to get access to the cocking slot. Okay, that’s some disassembly, but that’s as far as we’re going. Feinwerkbau uses Torx screw heads for the 3 screws that have to be removed, and they’re all the same size. Once I found the right bit, it took less than 2 minutes to remove the 3 screws and separate the barreled action from the stock.
This looks so similar to the FWB 124. Anyone who has disassembled a 124 will know how to take apart this rifle — not that we need to! The large bolt in front of the trigger holds the action together and is also the anchor for the front triggerguard screw.
Some improvements over the 124
I see they used the general design of the FWB 124 but made improvements in many places. The first place I’ll point out is the pivot bolt. It has a Torx head that allows you to tighten the pivot just enough. You want the barrel to remain in position after the rifle has been cocked. That keeps the breech as tight as it needs to be.
The pivot bolt also has a Torx head. You can control the amount of pivot tension very precisely.
On the right side of the breech, the pivot bolt nut is also Torx and fits into a recess in the end of the bolt. It spreads the bolt petals as it’s tightened, putting tension on the right side of the breech, while the bolt tensions the left side. This is an improvment over the 124 pivot bolt and nut arrangement.
The pivot nut is also Torx and fits into a recess in the end of the bolt. Petals on the end of the bolt allow the nut to apply tension from the opposite side of the breech.
You can also see in the picture above that the trigger blade is metal. This is another improvement FWB has made. They learned their lesson with the 124. Even though the trigger blade has no strain on it and will not break, shooters hate plastic triggers.
The spring was dry!
As Gene predicted, the Sport’s mainspring was dry. The synthetic spring guide (another improvement over the 124, because this guide has less friction than the old steel one) was also very dry. I wiped the spring coils with a cotton swab, confirming there was a thin film of moly grease on them, but it isn’t enough to deaden vibration when there are any loose tolerances in the powerplant. And by loose, I means only a few thousandths of an inch! Moly is used only on the mainspring and guide when the parts fit so tight we say they’re “nailed” together (that means they must be forced together for assembly). The amount they used on this spring was too little to deaden any vibration. FWB needs to lube their powerplant more during assembly.
The rear of the piston was coated with moly grease, which is correct. I left it in place; but when I oiled the mainspring, I also put some oil on the back of the piston because Gene recommended it.
Rear of the piston is well-lubed with moly, but the mainspring is too dry.
This is the gear oil I used — but as long as the lower viscosity number is 80 or more, it’ll work.
Oiling the mainspring. Don’t use too much!
I let the oil move around the mainspring for 5 minutes, then put the action back into the stock. Next, I cocked and fired the rifle. The cocking stroke was far smoother and quieter than it had been before the gear oil. But the pivot bolt tension is still bang-on, which means this Sport rifle is extremely well-made. Other guns loosen with shots and have to be corrected a lot, but this one is holding exactly where it was when I took it out of the box.
The shot cycle was now much smoother, but not entirely free from vibration. I shot it again several times, and it seemed to get smoother as I went. But it never got to the point of being vibration-free. Gene suggested putting more oil in the action, but I looked and there seemed to be enough in there already. Maybe it just needs to be shot more to spread the oil around.
Velocity testing — Crosman Premier lites
Before the oil, the rifle averaged 874 f.p.s. with Crosman Premier 7.9-grain domes. The spread for 10 shots was 28 f.p.s. After oiling, Premier lites averaged 852 f.p.s. with a spread of 21 f.p.s. So there was a small drop in velocity and a small decrease in the spread.
Air Arms Falcon pellets
Before oiling, the Falcon dome from Air Arms averaged 932 f.p.s. with a spread of 9 f.p.s. After oiling the average was 928 f.p.s. and the spread was 20 f.p.s. Slight loss of velocity and stability with oiling.
H&N Baracuda Match pellets
Before oiling, H&N Baracuda Match pellets averaged 706 f.p.s. with a spread of 25 f.p.s. After oiling, the average was 708 f.p.s. with a 20 f.p.s. spread. This pellet did a little better after oiling.
Firing behavior after shooting
The rifle still has a small bit of buzz, but it’s only about 10 percent of what it was before oiling. I don’t think it’ll get any better with time. In my opinion, the oiling method does work; and for those who don’t want to disassemble the rifle, this is a good option. The excess oil does run out of the gun, so be sure it doesn’t drip onto furniture or the carpet.
In the future…
Pyramyd AIR has granted me permission to open up this rifle for you and look inside. I may do that after the 50-yard test. And I will then look at other things that can be done to tune the rifle even better.
Seems to me that it is better than the Feinwerkbau 124 when it was first introduced with several improvements as you pointed out that make it more functional. As the current price of the Feinwerkbau Sport Air Rifle is $900 it seems just a bit more expensive than a Feinwerkbau 124 that you would buy used then adding the cost of getting the spring and piston head changed/updated and swapping out the trigger from plastic to metal not to mention the extra added cost to refinish the Feinwerkbau 124 to like new condition.
B.B.
I find it incredible that heavy gear oil of all things is recommended for a high value & high end air rifle like this. Won’t it damage the piston seal as I’ve heard these contain certain additives to dissipate heat and friction in gear boxes ? It not, can it be used on other guns as well. I ask this because the dealer that my friend bought his Hatsan Striker from asked him to put 40 wt motor oil into the oil transfer port every 500 shots.I saw him squirting it from a can generously & stopped him as it was dieseling heavily.This is why I want to strip it to see if the seal is damaged.But having said that, the power has not been affected. Appreciate your advice.
Errol
Erroo,
The gear oil is not forward with the piston seal. In a powerful springer you don’t want to use petroleum oil on that seal, as it can detonate. Yes, this oil may migrate forward, but it will take time to do so and shouldn’t be a problem.
Do not put petroleum oil through the transfer port of a powerful springer. It will work on a 500 f.p.s. gun, but keep it away from an 800 f.p.s. gun.
B.B.
B.B.
Thank you Sir. Will do. I thought so.
Errol
B.B.
Sorry I meant AIR transfer port.
Errol
Petroleum oil in the air transfer port… NEVER
That’s what silicone chamber oil is meant for.
Heavy oil on the spring? There may be a small amount of seepage past the piston which may cause some dieseling, but not so much as to cause detonation.
{reminds me — I need to dig out the RWS Silicone oil… I hope to get some positioned on the back side of the piston of a Stipula 22 fountain pen. The piston sticks in position if left alone for a few hours. It stuck so well that when I tried to screw it down to fill the pen, the threads were snapping over the shaft. Took me a week of soaking with 20 minutes a day under ultrasonic vibrations — discovered a split in the laminate barrel but it finally came apart so I could manually push the piston around. Need to buy a small needle tip superglue for the split, and decide what I’ll use to attach the rear barrel to the reservoir — clear nail polish, perhaps}
BB
Doesn’t that gear lube stink. Maybe the brand you used doesn’t but I know the gear lube I have used in the past sure did. Couldn’t hardly stand the smell.
Maybe its just better to put up with a little buzzing from the gun rather than carrying around a gun that’s stink’n. But I still love the smell of burnt rubber from a tire and the smell of fuel burn’n.
Oh the heck with this stink’n stuff. I want to know what the sport will do at 50 yards please.
GF1,
I have a very sensitive sniffer, but I didn’t find it particularly stinky or even offensive. Maybe Tom didn’t use enough of it to fill the air with smelly vapors.
Edith
Edith
I got a good smell’r too. And if that brand gear lube doesn’t stink I will be switching to it.
I set up a lot of ring and pinion gears in race car rear ends and gear lube almost makes me sick if I smell it anymore. So I hope your right. If so that makes me a happy camper. 🙂
GF1,
I just took a good snarf of that gear lube container. It does have an odor. However, not enough of it was used to cause a problem in our house, which is pretty tightly sealed. If you use it in larger quantities, it may be offensive.
Edith
One more thing–the smell was not enough for me to say “yuck” and make a face or gag. I’m just saying it had a detectable odor.
Edith
I used to have to wear that stuff home every time an axle or pinion seal job came in and it stank up the whole 60X40 shop…Beware! If it gets in something porous it’s there for life.
Reb
Thanks Edith.
I still want to give some a try. I’m thinking if you can’t smell it in the house then its probably not to bad of stuff then. The gear lube I’m talking about has a distinct smell you wont forget if you smell it.
Gunfun
It don’t smell bad yet because it has nor been heated up and churned up like it gets in the rear end of a car, that for some reason seem to release that strong odor we all dislike and stay with you long after you wash it off unless the new stuff has had deodorants added into it to please even the most delicate of palates.
I know all the gear oil I have used for 40 years stink even Harleys trans oils has that distinct smell to it. I think if Tom shoots that FWB fast enough several times as fast as he can load it they might get to experience the pungent odor we have come to dislike.
Buldawg
hello bb
how is that heavy weight pellet test coming along
also will you be reviewing the Benjamin armada in the near future
thanks
He already has. It is nothing more than the .22 Marauder in a very expensive little black dress.
I went to PA last week and saw that they did not have any new FWB Sports, but had several refurbished ones for $766. I guess they pulled them all out of the box, oiled them up and dropped the price a bit. They still have one left.
There is a product called ‘Tune In A Tube’ that is available elsewhere that is a high viscosity grease in a syringe type applicator that looks like it would work well in this situation. I personally have no experience with it, but I think I might just have to pick some up to keep on hand, especially since I plan on increasing my sproinger collection.
My hope is that Feinwerkbau will realize that they need to decrease their profit margin a bit if they intend to compete in the sport air rifle market. It is one thing to charge the prices they do for competition airguns because those folks are obsessive and willing to pay outrageous prices for equipment thinking it will help and quite another to charge those kind of prices and expect the average ‘Joe’ to pay that much for a new toy.
For the price of a ‘refurbished’ FWB, I can buy a TX200 MKIII with a walnut stock. That is a beautiful air rifle and IMHO a better air rifle. I am not going to pay $300 for the name on the side of the stock.
Feinwerkbau, you need to wake up and smell the coffee.
RR
I saw that also about the discounted sports. That’s a good theory you have there. But if not; I wonder why they got sent back.
I have more than once thought about getting different refurbed guns through PA but something deep inside keeps telling me no don’t do it. I’m guessing the return policy still applies if you want to return it? But then that’s a hassle to send it back and wait for the refund or exchange. Oh well just another thing.
RR
I will second that and maybe it will sell better if it comes with a tube of Tune in a Tube to kill the buzz before you begin shooting.
I think they have refurbs for sale because it all the first ones that PA sold that have been sent back due to the buzzing in them.
As I said before their quality control is nonexistent to let a 900 dollar gun leave the factory making that kind of noise. And they are resting on their reputation to much instead of making the guns right to start with.
Buldawg
They’ll realize they made a big mistake when they start getting shipments full of dusty & rusty Sports back and TX 200 sales simultaneously rose 15%.
That trigger is a real surpirse for me. I expected a box hanging below the spring tube, like 90% of all airguns have – and with some Rekord-trigger clone inside. Instead, this really looks like an old FWB 124, or a Slavia 631. Please give us a look inside, I want to see how it works 🙂
Mel,
From what I have seen so far, the trigger is a close copy of the 124 trigger. But if I take the rifle apart, we will see.
B.B.
I find it hard to believe that you have to go to the trouble of adding gear oil to a$900 “German quality” gun. It’s like buying a Mercedes Benz only to find out when it is delivered it only has three wheels. So you complain to the dealer and he tells you to quit griping cause you are now the proud owner of a ” Mercedes”. Just park it in the driveway and place a potted plant next to it to hide the missing wheel.
Pete
LOL
David
Pete,
LOL That’s a good one! Potted plant to hide missing wheel! He he he…..
Errol
To be honest I’m not sure I really want this Mercedes even if it had all four wheels. A nice potted plant, maybe. LOL
David
No idea if it is true, but I’d heard a claim many decades ago that if one was not allowed to buy a new Rolls-Royce unless they had shown prior ownership of a used Rolls-Royce. Something about proven one could maintain the proper standard of care…
I’m thinking I heard something on that line of thinking also with the Rolls-Royce.
We’ll get the wheel in the mail ASAP for $500.Then all you have to do is match the existing tires.
Pete
So you have owned a Mercedes before HUH.
Buldawg
B.B.
Do you know what weight RWS Spring Cylinder Oil is? If the spring was as dry as you say wouldn’t RWS Spring Cylinder Oil have also helped quiet the spring buzz to some extent?
David
David,
It’s about 10-weight. Too thin for this job.
B.B.
BB,
I have been very interested in the series on this rifle. While it greatly annoys me when folks dump on a new airgun model (many without ever having fired an example) it is a bit disappointing that FWB would release the Sport in its current, buzzy state. If gear oil removed most of the buzz, a proper tar/grease on the mainspring applied at the factory would have avoided much negative press. An airgun at this price level should not have such a basic, easy to correct problem. At least the construction and accuracy look to be very good – and those are much harder to correct. These airguns will probably last generations with proper care.
Paul in Liberty County
Keep the tar (or gear lube). That’s a bandaid. A properly-fitted mainspring guide installed at the factory would have avoided much negative press. At least with respect the firing behavior.
We’re still left with
–no sling swivels,
–the “Pick-A-Team!” ambi stock,
–no hand-checkering or palm swell,
–rear sight ears that will look goofy should one choose to ditch the scope in favor of optics, and
–the weird-then, weird-now lil’ ole’ divots that remain — after DECADES of criticism — FWB’s chosen method of ‘stopping’ scopes.
All that failure for 9 Benji’s, when the old one, with none of those issues, inflation adjusted, would come in at only $620, and an Air Arms Walnut-stocked Prosport — UK manufactured, lustrous bluing, walnut stock with contrasting grip cap and rollover comb, and a MUCH more complex action — comes in for less (?!?!?!??!).
An Indefensible Disappointment. FWB could, and should, have done much, much better.
-How many breakbarrel airgun comes with sling swivels? Not many do, because folks don’t need them mostly.
-Did it ever occur that an ambi stock is a big advantage for some buyers? I’m left handed, my girlfriend is right handed. Yes, I want an ambi stock on my guns.
– The rear sight is much, much better then most other rear sights nowaydays. These iron sights are not just there to be removed to put a scope on.
– I’m with you regarding the strange scope stoppers.
And concerning the buzz of the airgun: It shoots great, as BB has shown in earlier reporst. So apparently, vibrations are not a problem.
How many breakbarrel airgun comes with sling swivels?
Importantly, the 124, which I was using for comparison, did. Most folks who actually USE guns in the field will want a sling. This is a cost cutting step backward.
Did it ever occur that an ambi stock is a big advantage for some buyers? I’m left handed, my girlfriend is right handed. Yes, I want an ambi stock on my guns.
— Great! Go buy a cheap or mid-line gun that has such a “feature”. Or, if your a high-roller, two correctly manufactured Sports (a right and a left). High line wood-stocked guns are specific to handedness for a reason; fit is important. Attention to fit is a mark of quality. At the $900 level, ambi is ridiculous, given the ease of flipping the woodlathe programming. BTW — if you think no one wants swivels, be assured that even fewer (MANY fewer) want an ambi stock on their most expensive springer to accommodate their girlfriend.
The rear sight is much, much better then most other rear sights nowaydays. These iron sights are not just there to be removed to put a scope on.
–No argument with the sight — it’s the eeeeeaaaarrrrs that get me. A bad tattoo you’re stuck with F-O-R-E-V-E-R. If I want to remove the irons, I don’t need FWB throwing aesthetic roadblocks up.
I’m with you regarding the strange scope stoppers.
–Yaaayyy!!!
And concerning the buzz of the airgun: It shoots great, as BB has shown in earlier reporst. So apparently, vibrations are not a problem.
—At this level, yes, aesthetics are important. Critical. So impeccable firing characteristics are non-negotiable. A loose guide — at $900 — really?!?!?
I wonder if the lower-velocity European FWB Sport rifles are experiencing the same issues.
Edith
Edith
That is a good question.
SteveInMN,
It is expensive to make something in Germany. That is why the Germans can only sell high-end goods because they have a long reputation for making quality products, which I DON’T buy into in general.
It is even expensive to buy something in Germany because sales tax is 19%. Gasoline is $8/gallon.
And its cheap to make stuff in the UK? (Of course not).
Yet AA somehow manages to deliver a LOT more for the money.
And even Weihrauch (operating in Germany) doesn’t charge this much for their most expensive springers.
The VAT you’re referring to does not apply to exports.
Which was a nice discovery when I asked if some shops could ship the item for me (I’d bought a lot of Border Fine Arts figurines doing TDY trips in the 80s/90s — instead of paying the VAT and trying to carry the item back on the airline, they’d remove the VAT and add shipping; a bit of a break even, but I didn’t have to hassle an 8 cubic foot box across the country and to the airline [and that was before they started charging for every cc of luggage])
Paul
I have been one of those one bashing this new FWB, but I have also had the luxury of rebuilding and shooting a 70 model second generation 124 so it is not without merit that my disapproval of this gun as delivered to BB is not without merit.
I agree that it would be very easy and far cheaper to properly lube the spring from the factory than to have them returned to dealers because of this easily fixed noise issue.
Its like the car companies have become in that it is easier to have the technicians fix the missed issues at the dealership level than it is to stop the assembly line to replace or change a procedure to on the line to correct the issue at the assembly level where it should be corrected to start with or better yet if the engineers had done their homework correctly to start with it would never become an issue to start with in production.
I saw this mentality at Harley when I was helping setup the Vrod engine assembly line in that the engineers did not know the hands on assembly steps in the proper order so as to not have to back step at several points in the line to remove a part in order to install a part that needed to be installed prior to the previously part being installed and it was difficult to get the German Porsche engineers to understand what the issues were. I remember watching one of the head Porsche engineers struggling to install a transmission shift drum into a case for 30 minutes until I could not keep my composure and to the polite suggestion of my supervisor as to not intervene I had to go and show him how to install it correctly as I had done more times than I can count while testing the bikes in the durability fleet at out test facility in Alabama, needless to say when I asked if I could show him how to do it he muttered something German under his breath until in 10 seconds later I had the shift drum in place and the pivot shaft pushed thru the cases and installed properly as he walked off muttering even more German curse words at me as I took German in high school for a foreign language and failed the class but did retain the curse words of the German language.
buldawg
If gear oil works why not STP? Just coat apply to the spring and a little inside, once the spring is coated it will stay put better than gear oil.
I make my own lube for pivot points using STP/30w ND oil/moly mixed.
There use to be some thick oil for engines that was called motor honey. It was gold in color. I wonder if that stuff would work in spring guns.
Remember CD-2? My Dad always had a can draining into another can on the workbench.
Yep I do remember that Reb.
Same thing! why replace your worn and sticky lifters when this stuff only costs $5?”We’re not saying it’ll fix them but it’s a lot less work, especially if you do it instead of us”.
You “motor honey” sounds like it was a competitor for STP.
http://www.casite.com/products/oil-additives/motor-honey-oil-treatment
http://www.stp.com/products/oil-additives/oil-treatment/
In the 70s I used (in engines) something almost 180deg from STP… Instead of being slow flowing transparent gold/topaz colored, it was fast flowing and dark black…
One side effect was that 5 minutes after doing an oil change, the oil on the dipstick looked like it was already 3000 miles used.
The additive had a heavy graphite component.
Have you heard of Marvels Mystery Oil.
Used to oil the Feltmans with it daily, inside & out!
Gunfun
I remember that stuff and I think it is now called engine restorer or something like that and it was very similar to STP in its very thick viscosity properties and I actually tried some in one of my early Datsun motors until I could pull it out to rebuild and it actually worked to slow down the oil burning some what although it was a bear to clean out of the engine when I did rebuild it because it had become like molasses.
Buldawg
You could also throw Lucas into the lubes that are thick “stick” to surfaces really well. I wonder also about Chain Oil as it has lots of tack to it so it can stick to chains on chainsaws. Also one could consider a spray grease. It would work it’s way around, then “thicken” up like a reg. grease would look.
Bob,
That’s a good recommendation. STP is half of Whiscombe Honey — the oil John Whiscombe recommends for lubing pellets for his gun.
B.B.
That 90 weight is some stanky stuff! I’m glad you got the go-ahead to tune it, I can’t wait to see where the money goes in a $1000 springer!
I am bit surprised that people they expect all mass products to be perfect out of the box and don’t like to tinker and tweak their equipment.
Guess that I just like to disassemble things to see how the work and can’t resist “fixing” something even if it is not broken. After all…Customer does final inspection – some do more than others.
I’ve tuned a lot of springers (probably around 50 or so) for myself and for friends and flushing out the spring chamber with Varsol and re-lubing with a gear oil was “standard practice” for the first stage of the tuning. Most of these were Czechoslovakian or Hungarian made rifles that were over-packed with low quality grease.
So a tuning would typically go like this…
Basic tuning:
– Remove stock; flush out spring chamber grease with Varsol; inspect; de-burr; second flush: lubricate spring chamber with gear oil and pivot points with gun-oil or light machine oil (3-in-1 oil). Drain/wipe off excess oil. Seal inside of stock with thinned varnish as required.
– Re-assemble making sure all screws are properly tightened.
– Clean and molly (Dri-Slide) barrel.
– Sight in rifle.
Break-in period: 5 cans of pellets minimum (usually more – we used to shoot a lot, a can a day was typical).
Special tune:
– Remove stock; flush out spring chamber oil with Varsol; totally disassemble rifle; inspect “wear patterns” for indications of serious part misalignment or excessive binding – correct as required; de-burr polish cylinder exit port; check/polish cylinder if required; Check/de-burr/polish piston metal work; Check piston seal; molly-grease spring, spring chamber and the metal part of the piston; molly-oil pivot-points, gun-oil other moving parts as required.
– Re-assemble making sure all screws are properly tightened and that stock screws are loctited.
– Clean and molly (Dri-Slide) barrel.
– Check that POI has not changed.
Besides being fun to do, a bit of time spent tuning would change a “mass produced” product into a rifle that shot much smoother, quieter and 25-30% faster than standard. A little bit of spit and polish goes a long way.
Vana2
Vana2
And I thought I shoot alot. I will do a tin of 500 over a two day weekend on the average. Some times more. But hardly ever less.
And I believe that the more pellets you get through any air gun seems to make them get better for some reason. And when I find the pellet that is working the best in that gun I try not to switch around and shoot different pellets. I like the same pellet going through the gun all the time.
Wow, that is a lot. Do you shoot during the rest of the week? I try to be slow but steady with 60 shots a day.
You’re right that you could make different twist rates available with interchangeable barrels. That would be an instance of the gun as system concept.
Matt61
Matt61
That’s exactly what I mean about the twist rate and power adjustment. It will give you a way to fine tune that gun.
If the barrel twist rate and power power plant would be made adjustable on a airgun you would have so many possibilities of tuning at your finger tips for different types of shooting. Not just what you are stuck with that the manufacturer says is suppose to be the standard and work in all situations.
And as far as shooting goes. I shoot Friday almost always unless I work. That’s are overtime day. And definitely every Saturday and Sunday. Some times I will shoot maybe 10 shots a day on the other days of the week. But I usually have a average of 4 or 5 air guns that I have out to shoot on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. I like to mix it up with a couple springer’s and a couple PCP guns.
Yep I like to shoot. 🙂
I suspect the only reasonable way to do adjustable twist rate is going to be via replaceable barrels.
While a “choke tube” type insert is viable in shotguns, consider that a 12ga shotgun has a bore diameter nearly 3/4″. A misalignment of 1/32″ of a choke tube juncture is only 4%… That same 1/32″ misalignment on a .22 barrel is a whopping 14%.
Think what a 14% ridge is going to do to a pellet when it hits it — scrape a lot of lead off the side that intrudes into the bore, and let a lot of air escape on the side that is off the bore.
Wulfraed
You must of missed when we were talking about it the other day.
I was thinking on the lines of the FX smooth twist barrel.
Have the majority of the barrel smooth. Then have the muzzle end threaded. Then you would have a 2 or 3″ long adapter’s that had different twist rates made in them. You could just screw the adapter on to the end of the barrel.
Supposedly they are now using something similar on shot gun barrels that shoot slugs or similar projectiles.
And I do know for a fact that the FX Monsoon I had was a accurate gun. The pellet gun barrel would be very similar to a FX barrel. The only difference would be is were they start the rifling the smooth barrel I’m talking about would have the screw on adapter with the rifling in it.
And think about this. You could even use the pellet barrel as a smooth bore by just leaving the adapter off if somebody had projectiles that worked with a smooth bore. It opens up a lot of possibilities for multiple uses with needing only one gun.
My point was that manufacturing variances that don’t have an effect of a 200+gr .720 slug might be a major upset to a 14gr .22 pellet.
If there is ANY ridge at the base of threaded insert, you either shave off a lot of lead (insert is smaller diameter than bore at that point) or have an air leak around the pellet (insert is larger diameter) — or even both if the insert is oval.
Wulfraed
There is a way to over come the miss alignment of the machining process.
The threads would be female threads on the adapter. And what could be done is basically have a lead in chamfer to the rifling in the adapter. That way when you screw it on there wouldn’t be a step were the smooth bore meets the rifling. That would be very simple to overcome.
I was thinking about threading the end of one of my smooth bore 760’s barrel then cutting the end of a bull barrel off a old barrel I have and putting a female thread in it and a lead in chamfer and screwing it on to see if it improved the 760.
Hi Gunfun1,
Yes, our group would shoot a lot. Still have my original Slavia 618 and my granddaughter shoots it regularly. Wouldn’t even try to guess how many pellets it has seen.
A box or two a day was pretty normal especially in August/September when there were hordes of grasshoppers and wasps to shoot at. We used to have competitions – 2 seconds to mount the gun, aim and shoot; 1 point for hitting; minus a point for missing; no point for being called for taking too long… you can go through 500 pellets pretty fast doing that.
Favorite targets were Honeycomb cereal suspended on a piece of string – they explode nicely when hit and the birds clean-up afterwards!
Years later I would go to the sand-pits with the .22 rimfires and go through one or two “bricks” (500 rounds per brick) in a morning’s shoot. Wear hearing-aids now because I didn’t realize that the relatively (by comparison to when we went out with the center-fire stuff) light report could do hearing damage.
Getting back into the pellet rifles and I am doing about a box a week now. Love to shoot. Setting up a 50 yard range in the back yard to practice for FT competitions next year. Looking forward to that!
Cheers!
Vana2
I sure do miss my little 618, Bird’seye accurate!
Vana2
My daughters and wife shoots with me also. If they are shooting we will go through almost 2 tins of pellets in a 3 day weekend of shooting.
And I grew up on a farm and there was something wrong with me if I didn’t shoot everyday. And we did a lot of the things you described. I do the field target thing in my back yard all the time. I would call it a cross between field target and mini-sniping. Either way fun stuff.
I’m just thankful that I was able to grow up that way and I’m giving my kids that chance also. My oldest daughter (17 yrs. old) is getting a little bold now. She’s finding it fit to let ole dad know when she’s out shooting me. You know how that goes. I tell her I let her win our little plinking contest. But really her and the 13 yr. old daughter both shoot pretty darn good now. I definitely can’t slack off anymore.
For 900$, those things should’ve been done before shipping out. I love tuning/modding springers , but can’t agree that there should be work needing to be done ay this price range, especially with the simplicity and lack of materials for a breakbarrel.
Isn’t there a standing joke about a 12 year old tuning his springer on YouTube in this fashion?
Edith,
Something’s wrong! I can’t get a comment to take.
Looks like I finally got one to take. Could you please check the spam folder for the other 3 or 4?
Reb
Reb,
I answered your other comment.
Edith
Reb,
I approved the first one & removed the other two. Please don’t post more than once if there’s an issue. We were eating lunch and that’s why we didn’t unspam your comment immediately. Give us some time, and all will be well.
Thanks,
Edith
My apologies. Enjoy your lunches’.
There have been a couple of suggestion that the Sport at $900 is too expensive and that the price should be $500 – $600.
Don’t think the price scale has changed since I bought my FWB124. I paid $225 for it new when a decent pellet gun were going for around $75 so it was about 3 times the price. Think that is pretty comparable to today’s prices.
If I cost the rifle plus a tune-up kit, say $350 over 35 years it comes to $10 a year. Prices/costs/salaries have gone up a bit over the past three and a half decades…
Just a thought.
I believe it’s safe to say I’ll never own one of these, unless someone gets fed up and gives it away.
After seeing the picture of the trigger. Those on the HW30S or HW50 with the Rekord Trigger makes this trigger appear suitable for the Crosman 760, perhaps…
Pete
Orcutt, California
B.B.
So oiling does work to quite buzz with this rifle my guess is it would work on lesser rifles also. Think I may give this a shot on my Ruger Air Hawk.
In part 4 you said the FWB Sport suffered from some barrel droop are you planning to remount the scope using a BKL 1-PC droop compensating mount or are you just going to use the mil-dots like the 25yd test? I’m surprised no one is screaming about the existing droop in a $900 gun people sure do about the droop on Diana rifles.
David
B.B.
The question about remounting the scope was related to the 50yd test you mentioned?
David
David,
Yes, I do plan on using a drooper mount for 50 yards. The problem is, droopers are one-piece and they limit the mounting possibilites, but because it is a BKL it will at least slide the length of the dovetails for positioning.
B.B.
B.B.
Yeah I ran into that issue of mounting possibilities limitations with the RWS Lock Down 1-PC that came with my 460 Magnum. You don’t even have the flexibility of sliding the mount along the dovetail with that setup. I ditched the one piece and went with a Leapers #DN460 and low rings.
David
Tom, I’m surprised Gene just didn’t jump to suggest some spray grease applied thru the cocking slot rather than gear oil. I know that white lithium and red greases sold in aerosol cans can be easily applied, plus they thicken after setting for 20 minutes or so, which would quell vibration even more. As you said already..one must go easy with this stuff, and I would avoid contaminating the moly grease FWB applies to the OUTside of the piston. These thicker greases would be far less likely to be flung off the coils than oil. For those who would prefer to stay with gear lube… the “clingiest” gear lube I’ve ever tested is made by Lubrication Engineers in Texas. It’s red in color and truly resistant to being flung off gears or springs. It was designed for long term industrial use. While having a high ‘stiction’ level, its also very slippery.
Regards,
Russ Best
Russ,
Well, this is just a field fix. I will do more when I take it apart. Maybe I will get it completely quiet with close-fitting parts. Then just the moly crease will work.
B.B.
Hello BB et All
I wonder if there is any way to measure the loudness of this “slight buzz” the FWB Sport seems to produce, and include the sound in the next blog. Then we could hear and judge for ourselves if the “laser-like” accuracy shown in the 25 meter test is worth putting up with a slight buzz. High end products are almost always expected to look, and perform flawlessly from the get go. The big problem with aesthetics is that beauty is measured in the eye of the beholder, with very few products achieving universal acceptance. A couple exceptions that come to mind would be Ferrari achieving a home run in 1962 with the gorgeous 250GTO. Same with the timeless looks of Jaguar XKE. A car evan an old Enzo Ferrari claimed to be the most beautiful car ever produced. Some folk could care less about form. Functionality is what they demand. What I am saying, is this FWB is the first new spring gun from that company in over 25 years. If you can’t put up with its current flaws, just wait for next years new and improved version. The market place has and always always will be the great equalizer when determining if a product will be a success, or a dud.
Ciao
Titus
BB,
The gear oil looks like a bit of a shenanigan to me. It will always be 85w in that application, and 85w gear oil is pretty much same viscosity as SAE 30 motor oil*, which I’d be reluctant to put in/on that powerful springer. Might as well use pellgunoil. The gear oil might stick a bit better, but bar and chain oil would be even stickier! Oil of any type will migrate into chamber, maybe destructively…I agree with the calls for grease/”tar”. Even through the cocking slot, it will do a better job and for longer with very little danger of detonation!
*for handy chart see: http://www.doolittleoil.com/faq/viscosity-sae-iso-or-agma
Agreed.
I’d love to see this shot back to back with a Weihrauch 95 (Beeman R9) at 50 yards, and a TX200, not to mention the Walther LGV and LGU and Diana 52……with a brief outline of what you are getting for your extra three or four hundred bucks.
Incidentally, I hope Pyramyd start stocking the Walther Century and Terrus soon, they are both getting a pretty good ground swell of opinion this side of the pond and the Century at least has a potential for the sort of velocities the US marketeers love, certainly it has a bigger swept volume than the LGV, they are less “high end” rifles though.
A little motorcycle chain spray, or even wax would have been the ticket, because it starts off viscous, but is anti fling after 10 minutes and because of the O’rings in modern motorcycle chains is formulated to not harm polymers or rubber compounds…….most of them are Moly reinforced
Edith, I can’t tell if the Euro spec guns are having a problem, as far as I can see nobodies buying them, there are five or six major airgun forums here in the UK and though there was a buzz about it I can’t find a UK price.
Whether afficianado’s like it or not, since the 124 was out, things have moved on somewhat, and to rehash one with better screws and a nicer trigger, I suspect, simply won’t appeal to us…..most of the larger retailers have in house tuning services and if they know they can sell a HW95 with 15 hours of expert gunsmithing gone into a tune on it, for 75% of the price of this yesterdays dinner, then they correctly assume it will gather expensive dust.
Walther struggled to shift the LGV over here for the same reason, you could buy a HW98 (Beeman R11), have it tuned, buy a very good scope and still have $200 in your pocket, and that was a better gun than this Feinwerkbau, mercifully Walther took note and the LGV was priced rather more in line with the AA TX200 and HW77/97 it sought to compete with.
Sorry, but Feinwerkbau will struggle to sell 5 of these in the UK, the 124 was genuinely the nicest springer in 1979, but in 2014…………….well……twice the price of an R9?
Dom
Thank you for giving some real world commentary on the biggest hurtle that seems to face the FWB Sport here in North America. Price. The North American bloggers have been dancing around the $900.00 price tag issue with no actual data to back up one side or the other. You have given us the first real look at how this gun is being accepted in what I would consider a very knowledgeable airgun community. Great Britain stands second to none in innovation when designing, building, and marketing some of the best airguns in the world. Also, some of the priciest. You have confirmed what I was trying to say about the market place being the great equalizer. Its not the price as much as the niche the FWB Sport must fill. Personally, I hope Feinwerkbau reads these blogs, and reevaluates its pricing structure accordingly, so as to fit what has become an extremely competitive market. Feinwerkbau has a lot of expertise to bring to the table, and we can only benefit from their continued presence.
I hope you will continue to give us the Euro, and specifically, British slant on BB’s, and other topics. Like Duskwhite from Moscow, I consider your input not only valuable, but knowledgeable, and entertaining. Proof that air gunning has truly become a world wide phenomenon, and if we stand united, our influence can be formidable.
Ciao
Titus
Recommending to pour oil into the gun…..
Wheres the embarassed head-shaking smiley?
BB,
A friend of mine is a lubrication engineer and he uses 100-200 weight rock drill oil as a spring lube. He says it is designed not to diesel even under the heavy pressures of huge hammer drills used in mining.
Back in the old days guys used to get a spray chain lube made for motorcycles and spray that through the cocking arm slot. This was a sticky lube made not to sling off of a motorcycle chain.
I still think it is best to pull a gun apart and properly lube the gun.
David Enoch
David,
I agree and that is what I will do.
B.B.
Hi BB!
I’ve been enjoying your blog as I get back into shooting my break barrels after a long last off. Can you advise me whether it is better to store a break barrel slightly broken, not cocked, so as not to compress the breach seal? Or is that unnecessary and the gun, rifle or pistol, may be stored in the barrel closed position? Thanks!
Chuck,
I don’t really know the answer. I’ve done it both ways, but 95 percent of the time I just close the barrel.
B.B.
GL-5 gear oil? I’d probably select GL-4 as a less risky option. You certainly don’t need the additional extreme pressure additives in GL-5, which attack some metals and metal alloys. Probably okay, but why take the chance?