by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Webley Mark VI BB revolver
This report covers:
• Lookalikes are booming!
• Some history
• A closer look
• Much, much more!
• The future
Let’s take a look at the stunning new Webley Mark VI BB revolver that’s the talk of the airgun world! Even though this revolver just hit the U.S. market, I feel like I’m late to the party because airgunners around the world are already buzzing!
Lookalikes are booming!
It comes as no surprise that lookalike airguns are one of the hottest growth sectors of the market. Firearms are so restricted in many countries, and even here in the U.S. they’re nowhere near as easily accessible as they were just a few decades ago. People want to feel and hold the mechanisms that evoke images of battles past, and today’s realistic lookalike airguns make this very possible.
I remember back in the 1970s when the Crosman 38T and 38C revolvers were selling — we all thought things couldn’t get much better. And guns like Crosman’s M1 carbine BB gun or Daisy’s model 26 slide-action BB gun that was a near-perfect copy of Remington’s 572 Fieldmaster .22 were remarkable mimics of the real thing. They still are today! And I cannot overlook the gun that started it all, back in 1961 — Daisy’s 1894!
But the lookalike market grew dark until Umarex opened it again with their Walther CP88 at the end of the last century. The reception for some of their lookalike guns such as the Walther PPK/S BB pistol was strong; but others — such as the S&W 586 — languished with lukewarm sales. Of course, pricing was part of the problem. The PPK/S had blowback and cost under $50, while the gorgeous S&W 586 sold for over $180. I’m talking historical prices now — both pistols cost more today.
While all this was happening, I heard the insiders discussing what they should bring out next. The first model out of my mouth was the Colt Single Action Army, and we will see that one next year, but I never considered guns like the P08 or the M712 pistols.
Some history
The thought of someone creating a Webley Mark VI revolver never crossed my mind! Webley top-break revolvers are just as iconic as single actions in most parts of the world. Heck, Indiana Jones used one In The Last Crusade if memory serves, while his evil opponents were armed with period-correct Broomhandle Mausers! Just holding a .455-caliber Webley Mark VI puts me in mind of the last days of the British Empire and all the exotic places their soldiers were stationed.
The BB pistol is marked just like the firearm.
The firearm is just more worn. People love this kind of realism!
Of course, the firearm has lots of additional marks. The broad arrow on the right is the mark signifying military ownership.
The Mk VI, or Webley six, as it is also known, is a 6-shot double-action revolver chambered for the British .455 round. That round is a rimmed .45-caliber cartridge with a bullet diameter of 0.455 inches. How about that? Its 265-grain lead bullet travels at a slow 600 f.p.s. out the muzzle, but was rated in early trials as a manstopper that was superior to even the U.S. Army’s .45 A.C.P.
The Mark VI revolver was adopted in 1915, but it was the outgrowth of a progression of .455- and .476-caliber revolvers that had been evolving for close to half a century by that time. The recoil was considered low for the era, but it was still more than many new conscripts were able to tolerate, so the Brits phased it out in favor of a .38-caliber cartridge that was chambered in a series of Webley and Webley-esk revolvers.
I’ve never owned a Mark VI firearm, but a friend loaned me his father’s Mark VI when he learned of the BB pistol — just so I could make this report a little richer. I must say, holding the firearm is a historical day trip, and holding the BB revolver is very close to the same thing.
Only the deep, perfect finish reveals which revolver is the BB gun (right). This firearm is chambered for .45 ACP, which is a popular conversion for this model.
A closer look
The Webley Mark VI BB revolver is a very close copy of the firearm — in looks as well as function. Wherever Webley put a screw or lever, the BB gun has one. In fact, at first glance, perhaps, the best way to tell the BB gun from the firearm is the finish. Unless you have a collectible Webley Mark VI revolver, the BB gun will certainly look far better.
This gun uses brass lookalike cartridges to load the BBs. The cartridge consists of a brass case that has a gray plastic bullet replica when the lead bullet would be. One BB is pressed into the open nose of each simulated bullet, then the loaded cartridges are loaded singly into the revolver’s cylinder. To gain access to the cylinder, the revolver is broken open — not unlike a breakbarrel airgun, but without the effort. As the gun breaks open, the extractor rises, lifting all the cartridges from their chambers.
The cartridges are separate. A BB is pressed into the front of each one.
Soldiers were not concerned with their expended cartridges. So, when the revolver is broken open, the most common way of clearing the cylinder was to turn the revolver on its side and dump them out. For this reason, the Webley does not have an ejector — nor does it need one.
Of course, BB gunners do care about the cartridges because you’re going to reload them with BBs. So, you don’t dump them unless it’s onto a bed just to feel the historic effect of clearing the revolver rapidly. “Color Sergeant! Post a guard on that wall!”
This revolver is powered by CO2, and you know by now that the cartridge has to live inside the grip. The manufacturer advertises a velocity of 388 f.p.s., which I’ll test for you in Part 2. I’ll also give you the numbers for the trigger-pull in both single- and double-action in Part 2 — but I can tell you right now that this is one light, smooth revolver. You’re going to love shooting it!
The CO2 cartridge hides inside the grip panels.
The sights are fixed, as are the sights on the military revolver. And the only real giveaway that this isn’t a firearm is the white lettering on the right side of the frame announcing the caliber, and a Freimark (legal to own as an airgun, based on power) for the German market.
Rear sight is fixed (though it appears to move, it doesn’t). That large lever is pushed down to break open the revolver.
Well, there’s something else. It’s so small that I missed it on my first examination, which is exactly as it should be! In honor of Agatha Christie, this BB revolver has a working safety catch located on the right side of the frame. A red dot signifies the gun is ready to fire and a white dot tells you the safety is engaged. It can only be engaged when the gun is uncocked, and putting it on locks the action.
The safety is a small switch on the right side of the frame. When the white dot shows, the revolver cannot be cocked. The firearm has no safety.
Friends, this pistol even has a working lanyard loop! When the Mark VI was being issued, cavalry troops were still mounted on horses, and they used lanyards to connect their handguns to their bodies, lest they lose them (the handguns) in the heat of battle. The clever designers of this BB revolver turned the CO2 piercing screw into the base of the lanyard loop, where it looks perfect!
The makers knew exactly what their potential customers wanted, so in the package with the revolver and owner’s manual, they included a complete reprint of the Small Arms Training Pamphlet dated 1937. It includes the manual of arms for the revolver — including Inspection Arms, which is called “Draw pistols” in this manual. What a fascinating bit of history that shows how well the designers understood their customers.
The military training pamphlet on the left is 20 pages long — reprinted from the 1937 publication.
I could go on, but I think you get it from the pictures I’ve included. The immediate acceptance of this lookalike BB gun is probably surprising retailers. They looked at the price of $200 (it’s 200 pounds in the UK!) and thought people might stay away. And maybe it won’t sell as well in the discount stores — but that turns out to be an advantage! Since it will only be available from dealers of quality airguns, there won’t be the cutthroat discount pricing that destroys all hope of sensible commerce.
There will be many who don’t see the need for a revolver like this, but there will be quite a few who will celebrate its arrival! With realistic airguns like this, can the rest of our dreams be far off?
My hopes for the future…
The world of lookalike airguns is in the early years of a golden age. Who wouldn’t like a realistic M1 Carbine? Or perhaps a Finnish Lahti L35 pistol? Few of us can spare the $3,000 for the 9mm Lahti, but the way is now open for a realistic blowback version that shoots BBs. And while we’re at it, what’s to prevent someone from making a realistic Remington Rolling Block rifle? Or an 1874 Sharps?
Let your imaginations run wild!
My imagination is already running wild.
I’d like that Mark VI To be able to talk and reveal it’s history. I would listen to its stories for hours.
kevin
Kevin,
The guy loaned me his own Mark I, as well. It has also been converted to .45 ACP. He told me I could shoot both guns as much as I wanted and even provided some full moon, half moon and 2-shot clips for them.
B.B.
B.B.,
Apparently you’ve been a very good boy this year since Christmas has come early for you.
“Spoiled for choice” leaps to mind.
kevin
Tom,
There’s a fellow on youtube who has a shaved down cylinder Webley MK VI. He uses only very special reloads in .45ACP cases. He goes with a bit more lead and a bit less powder to reduce pressure to .455 levels, and his mold widens the bullet to .455. He said the lesser .45 diameter makes the MK VI a bit too inaccurate.
Michael
Michael,
I’ll second that inaccuracy problem with the smaller bullets! My Tarinter was all over the place.
Fortunately, I have a vintage 454424 Lyman mold that throws 45s lead bullets. I guess if I ever get one of these I will have to keep that in mind.
B.B.
Tom,
Hmmm. You test the Umarex PPK/S, then eventually buy one in .22. You test the Umarex P08, and then get a stainless Luger.
Edith, you better figure out how much Webley MK VIs go for these days. You might have to lock up the checkbook!
Michael
Michael,
When I saw Tom ogling the two Webley firearms he has on loan, I knew a Mark VI would eventually have to be bought!
However, he has a bunch of guns that don’t mean that much to him, so maybe he can sell or trade some of them for a vintage Mark VI. And, yes, I know I sound like a crazy woman when I say these things 🙂
Edith
Edith,
Not crazy-sounding at all. In fact, it strikes me as a fair and reasonable system.
It reminds me of when I used to work the door of a popular nightclub. Once it filled to the fire department’s maximum, I could only let in people as people left. Two out, two in. One out, one in, etc. Lots of couples and foursomes went back a space in line if an odd number of people left.
Michael
Edith,
One word of advice, though. If Tom keeps coming back the Umarex Legends version of the Schnellfeuer M712, look out! He would have to sell off a LOT of guns to acquire one of those by your arrangement.
Michael
Michael,
No worries there. I shot so many automatic weapons while I was in the Army that I got my fill of them.
B.B.
Michael,
Actually it is a done deal. I just haven’t pulled the trigger. In my mind I have owned a Mark VI for several years. A nice one will run $650-800. And I would like a .455. because I reload and I like the history. There are more numbers on the back of the cylinder that are ground off in the conversion.
B.B.
In Ohio, a look alike resulted in the death of a 12 year old who had a air-soft semi-auto pistol with the orange cap removed. Now there is talk about passing a law that would require all BB, air-soft, pellet or any other non-bullet firing “toy” firearm to have large, non-removable florescent panels built in. Wonder what Pyramid Air feels about this. Do a search on a 12 year old shot in Ohio while brandishing a air-soft pistol for more details on this.
John,
Pyramyd Air’s management saw your comment and asked me to supply this reply:
Edith
I’m really glad Pyramid is taking a “common-sense” approach to this, rather than changing requirements to meet any potential laws that may be significant. I read about the boy last night, and according to the police, it wasn’t airsoft, it was an actual pellet pistol the boy had, and he was literally pointing it at people, committing the crime of Menacing, his actions were clearly captured on video.
There is a lot of detail that has not become clear at this point, so any judgement should be withheld (that’s not our job, anyway), but I am very much in favor of including the rules of airgun safety with every package that goes out.
I hope it never becomes necessary to implement the Ownership Oath that Dennis Quackenbush (understandably) chooses to use, but if it does, it makes sense to me. I really appreciate it when companies take time to make sure common sense is available; it’s up to the customer whether they choose to use it.
I hope you and Tom are having a great week!
Down through the history of police actions, too many people were shot just reaching into their pockets for ID. Ever since the police started using automatic hand guns, the accidental death rate has climbed exponentially. Kids were shot for toy pistols and water guns, while a few too many adults were killed holding keys, pens, wallets and just about anything that even looked suspicious. So it doesn’t matter what is flashed, if you have a very nervous officer.
With our current amount of reporting every gun incident, our police forces everywhere are on a high level of nervousness. It makes common sense that the public should be aware of these issues and never brandish any object that gives the slightest impression of a weapon. Even when stopped for a traffic violation, it is advisable to show both hands on the steering wheel. We are the country with the most amount of guns and an attitude to own them at will. Disarmed, we are vulnerable to be attacked by criminals inside our country and forces outside. Education is primary to understand what guns are for.
The tragic death of the 12 year old in Cleveland served notice that we ought to consider firearms/arms education in schools. I know that schools don’t need “one more thing” to deal with, but we addressed sexuality with sex education, and guns are as damaging to young lives as inappropriate sexual activity. The need for a basic, society-wide, understanding of weapons seems absolutely necessary. That 12 year old did not have a clue how dangerous it was for him to be brandishing the look-alike in public. Now he, his survivors and even the responding police are victims of his ignorance.
This will only be compounded by this lust for replicas of firearms. I, as an individual opinion, DO NOT like nor see any need for replicas – despite their obvious popularity. I am content to have my air arsenal look precisely like airguns not wannabe powder-burners. When replicas proliferate, it seems to me in my view, the confusion reigns. The uninformed begin to confuse replicas with air soft with pellet guns and BB guns and don’t consider these to be “real.” The 12 year old, and all the others in the tragic situation, found out that there is only one kind of reality with respect to guns – that improperly presented and used they are considered deadly threat and dealt with accordingly.
With respect to the Webley revolver, it must be the firearm parent of my father’s WWII trophy, an 1893 Japanese Army revolver. That revolver copied the lines and mechanism of the Webley almost to a “T”. There are a few differences that might reflect mechanical development. The Japanese pistol field strips almost completely without tools by means of clever securing of its moving parts. I don’t do CO2, but if I were to so do, I’d likely purchase the Webley.
there is no excuse for not educating a child about brandishing any weapon or lookalike in a menacing nature . I am sick and tired of seeing laws passed to supposedly fix a problem by lowering everybody to the lowest common denominator. Tell you what ,you may not like replicas, but a lot of responsible people do ,and handle them responsibly. When some fool gets shot pointing one of your “less realistic” airguns at a police officer , yours will next be banned or at the least have a big orange moron plug stuck on the end. People get shot for pointing cell phones at cops ,what is your solution to that? Have us all carry 5 lb walkie talkies?
Since we are a nation that have more guns then people, it makes sense to educate a responsible populous to the dangers involved. Disarming the public is not the answer, since it will not apply to criminals and deranged people bent on killing. Taking away guns, knives, swords, axes etc will still not stop killing. What it will do is leave us vulnerable, as it did in every dictatorship country that disarmed their people . Proof of that, is the town that passed an ordinance that required every household to be armed, which dropped the the crime rate there, very quickly. No weapon kills, without intent behind it. Since more people die from everything other then a gun, the knee jerk reaction to remove the gun is unwarranted.
Bob R,
Agreed!
If we want to get rid of things that kill people in great numbers, let’s get rid of pharmaceuticals. And hospitals. And doctors. See how stupid that is? So, how is that same stupid mentality considered okay when applied to guns?
Edith
A really nice addition, that is screaming for a speed loader and spare shells. Next topbreak should be a S&W Schofield. Glad to hear the Colt Single Action is coming ,hopefully in a shell firing version. I would suggest a chrome plated version with either staglite grips or mother of pearl ,with nickel plated shells. HiYo Silver. An updated version of a Walther ppk not the ppk/s, with brown plastic grips and a co2/bb mag like the Makarov Ultra. S&W 1917 revolver, a select fire M2 carbine, A Thompson drum select fire , with the drum containing several co2 12 gm cartridges, a MP38 ,a 45 grease gun ,and a cartridge version of a Winchester 1873,a 92 large loop with a flipper to duplicate the Chuck Connors rapid fire version, so get busy
Hello BB and Airgunners
I now have another reason for reading this blog on a daily schedule. It’s not only about the many types of guns we get see and read about, but also the history that surrounds them. This is truly a unique pistol in it’s original format, and as BB put it, an air pistol for those of us who find it hard or next to impossible to own the original in powder burning format. Having airguns that look, and feel like the original powder burners is truly a boon for us. I haven’t given much thought to producing an airgun based on an iconic gun from the past, but I would like to add my vote for the M1 Carbine. I would love to own one just like the Lieutenant always used on the tv show “Combat” from the 60’s.
I’m looking forward to part 2 of this unique air pistol. Thanks for bringing it to our attention BB.
Ciao
Titus
Gads, I’m old! I used to love that show! I fell in love with the BAR.
Titus,
I have to say that this Webley is the most realistic airgun replica I have ever seen, and I just finished with the M712 Mauser pistol and the P08 before that! Being able to hold the handgun this BB gun was copied from really cements the association. Like Kevin said, when you hold one you can hear the history.
B.B.
Hi ,I hope you are well I just recieved my Webley from Pyramid on Saturday,I must
say it exceeded all of my expectations.It sure resembles the original down to the smallest
detail.I just started collecting look alikes recently and I tested it out and I am very happy
with it.There is another beautiful look alike looming right now.It is the copy of the
Nagent 1895 by a firm called Gezteler fom Ger.It comes in silver and blue,the silver
which can be seen on You Tube it is stunning- I hope PA will get a sample,I’m sure it will
be a sellout even the shells are exactly the same as the org.and it breaks down the same way
it also holds seven rounds.I hope spare shells will soon be availible for the Webley as only
the six shells that come with it are not enough for a session with it.In the Webley box they
list all the movies and tv shows this gun was featured in,But they left out the film
Young Winston when he was in the Boer War carried one.I too think about the old
British Empire and this gun will make anyone think of those days long ago when the UK
was the worlds heavy and we were not on the world stage.
Pretty impressive detailing more than justifies the cost. I have the 712 and P08 ,this one will be next. The stakes have just been raised
You can only have the M1 Carbine carried by Lt Hanley ,if I can get the Thompson carried by SGT Chip Saunders.
The Webley was a nice choice…and I do look forward to seeing what the SAA is like. Like everyone else, I also have a list of my own of examples I’d like to see, and I agree with B.B.’s earlier assertion that the SIG 210 would be at or near the top of my pistol list.
Given the interest in making the experience realistic, I still think there is a story to tell in the idea of building a replica with an action that accentuates recoil–especially in rifle actions. Back in Part 1 of B.B.’s report on the Broomhandle replica, I vibed on this idea for a bit, and exactly the same thoughts occur to me here. For guns of the kerflättenboomer aesthetic, like British doubles, Farquharson single shots and the like, I’d think that the spring-piston concept might be worked into a break, bolt, or underlever action for that purpose, whether or not it also powered the BB/pellet…and man, would that be cool.
Just for the record, I recall the manual of arms on the Webley REVOLVER (never was, never will be a PISTOL) was, comes the time for a reload, the likely stressed user is to hold the barrel/cylinder assembly horizontally and rotate the grip/trigger assembly down and forward. Thusly the now empty cartridge cases would eject and drop free of the revolver.
In other words, empty cartridge cases NOT to drop all huggeldy-buggeldy back into the cylinder and under the ejection-star and thusly jamming or at least impeding the action.
Not the romantic Errol Flynn image, cursing and swearing while the Fuzzi-Wuzzi closes with the Assiegai, is it?
As they say, six-for-sure but the quickest revolver reload is…another revolver in your belt. I think that may have been Jack Hays that said that.
(Yeah, I know Jack would have said Patterson, “five-for-sure,” but literary license says go for the six.)
Hi B.B.
The 1874 Sharps. Do you mean the .50 cal Buffalo Gun? Now that would be interesting! But CO2 won’t be able to mimic its power. Maybe a gas piston version……..
Errol
Errol,
Yes, I do mean the buffalo rifle, and the Remington is one, as well. They don’t have to shoot large bullets, because this .455 Webley is shooting BBs. They just have to be sized correctly.
B.B.
Personally, I would rather have the powder burner replicas of those rifles.
For some reason I have always wanted one of these Webleys. I think the reason I never did pick one up when the opportunity offered itself is that it was almost impossible to get the proper cartridges for it.
RR,
An 1870s British Trainter revolver was one of the things that pushed me to reload!
B.B.
Do I recall, at one time one could buy the Trainter as a cartridge revolver, or for those traveling really off the grid, with an interchageable additional cap-and-ball cylinder so one could use loose powder and ball? (Don’t lose your cap-box…)
David,
Possibly, but I haven’t seen that model. I don’t think the gun I had was convertible that way.
B.B.
In fact, at one time I did have a Perdosoli Rolling Block in 45-70. It was real fun to shoot.
There is an original ’74 Sharps that has been rebuilt in a local gun shop. It is drop dead gorgeous! It also has a price tag to match.
The MkVI is a beast of a revolver. In fact the short 4″ barrelled Webley .455 service revolvers feel a lot more balanced in the hand, but the sheer bulk of the MkVI must have been sufficiently impressive to an opponent nonetheless.
As ardent Webley fan I bought one of these as soon as they hit the shops in the UK, and yes the £200 price tag made be gulp. But it does shoot well, and is almost the same weight as the real thing, all metal. I just need to buy some extra shells. The ones they have made for this are not true .455 dimensions, but are different to the cartridges used in other similar replica revolvers.
However the mind boggles at the possibilities of lookalike revolvers: The massive Gasser 11mm, the British/American Bulldog .455 pocket pistol – originally another Webley – and surely you could even apply the principle to the Colt percussion pistol? The loading lever would emplace the BB in the cylinder.
Oliver,
I was also loaned a Mark I Webley for this report. It has the 4″ barrel you mention. I couldn’t think of how to weave it into today’s report, but I still have it and hope to even shoot it at the range. Perhaps a special report on shooting just the firearms? That sounds good to me.
B.B.
BB.
Wow! That sounds very good indeed, it would be fascinating to see what you think. I’m unlikely to ever get the chance to shoot live rounds from one. So go for it.
My father remembers that when he was a mere lad that in a drawer in his home were two MkVI’s owned by his father and uncle and used by them on the western front in WW1. He tells me that they reflected their personalities, one oiled and immaculate, the other neglected and rusty!
There’s something else that would be wild, a CO2 Webley Frosbery automatic self cocking revolver with a blowback action.
Oliver,
I am with you on the Webley-Fosbery!
B.B.
Tom,
VERY cool! But it’d have to be a heckuva valve to make the thing work. Probably one cylinder of BBs per cylinder of CO2.
The Webley Fosbery is partly famous for the goofed up reference Sam Spade makes when he describes the gun that killed his partner Miles Archer in “The Maltese Falcon”: “It’s a Webley-Foresby, .45 automatic, eight shot.” The .38 was an 8 shot, but the .455 was either 6 or 5 shot (I don’t know). Slightly tough to tell if Bogie mispronounces Fosbery or if it’s simply his lisp.
Michael
As used by James Bond , Sean Connery in the SCI FI flick ZARDOZ
Michaeir,
OMG! I’ve never met another person who watched or even heard of the movie ZARDOZ!
I remember watching it and was wondering when it would actually get interesting 🙂
Edith
Yup ,a snoozer., but one you went to see when nothing else was playing.
Oliver,
Actually, I believe the most massive gasser was Mongo (Alex Karras) in the campfire scene in “Blazing Saddles”! (Some say if you watch very closely, at strategic moments the fire’s flames get higher.)
Michael
Ha! Nice one.
Good one. Too bad we lost Alex this past year.
Only yesterday i was thinking ‘wouldn’t it be cool if BB did a blog on the Webley Service revolver ‘. What a perfect start to the day, lets hope the rest of it is as good. thank you.
Best wishes, Sir Nigel.
A 12 year old boy was just shot dead because he pointed a air soft gun. I can see a dark side of this gun.
DJ Mack,
Yes, I am aware of that tragedy. I think it extends way beyond things like revolvers, though, and into the socialization of people today. Edith and I talked about how we would never talk back to a policeman when we were young. We were brought up to do as we were told by adults.
This subject is too complex to resolve with the blame game, though. I was a rebellious kid and did things that would have gotten me in a lot more trouble today than they did when I was a kid.
So I guess I’m saying I just don’t know.
B.B.
Society has gone stupid, no two ways about it. Kids think it’s ok to run around scaring folks with fake guns. Not much different in my opinion than some of these “prank videos” that have become so popular on YouTube, many of them involve putting people in legitimate fear for their lives and I’m surprised that no one has been killed yet doing that.
On the other hand cops in some areas are so afraid of anyone with a gun that people have been shot as soon as a cop saw a gun, even when the person wasn’t doing anything with it. When I was 18 I got pulled over while driving, I grabbed my registration out of my glove box and the cop saw a blister pack of copperhead bbs. Not the gun, the bbs, and he pulled his gun on me demanding to know if there was a bb gun in the car as well.
Unfortunately, laws like California and other states are passing/discussing regarding banning replica firearms only serve to help keep the heat off of bad cops who shoot first and think later, they won’t protect anyone because the people that they are meant to protect will never pay attention to these laws.
Tim,
In Washington, D.C., a spent firearm cartridge in your car is considered the same as a firearm if you’re not a resident of D.C. You don’t need a gun, live ammo, a primer, powder or a bullet. Just that empty cartridge, and you’ll be fined, going to jail for a year and will have a criminal record. It’s been that way for a year. Imagine if you rent a car and someone’s left a brass case in it!
I’m waiting for someone to contest it in court:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/warning-d.c.-cops-under-orders-to-arrest-tourists-with-empty-bullet-casings/article/2535216
Edith
I got a gun pulled on me crossing into the US (I’m Canadian) because I had a hard gun case in the trunk of my car.
Then I explained to the customs officers that the case was empty (which he checked) and I explain to him that I wanted to buy some airguns in the US that weren’t available in Canada (or at least not in the same price range) and he was super nice to me. He even pointed me towards one of the nicest stores I’ve been to that had a really vast collection of airguns and firearms, I was like a kid in a candy store, I wanted to buy everything, I had never seen so many guns in person in my life.
I think it was safe for him to take the precaution and once he saw I wasn’t a threat he was the nicest guy.
J-F
We, too, have banned replicas (BBs and Airsoft) for many years after a few incidents like the ones seen in the US happened around here. But we also had it the other way around: some “bad guys” were using replicas to assault. When they finally learned that doing it would put them in jail just like a real firearm would, they stopped looking for replicas and now all bad guys only carry real guns.
Although I can’t blame the airgun for the incident, I do think that cops could be a little more cautious. It seems like they were affected by the “shoot first, ask latter” syndrome.
DJ Mack,
The airgun cannot do anything by itself. Same with firearms, knives, cars, alcohol and matches. They do nothing on their own. It’s only when they’re used or misused that potential danger enters the picture.
I can light a candle with a match for light and warmth. Someone else can light a mattress with a match and destroy property and lives. Should I blame the match or the person?
You cannot blame inanimate objects for doing evil. They have no brain, no conscience and no ability on their own. They are 100% dependent on someone activating them.
When someone deliberately sets a house on fire, they’re called arsonists. No one tries to regulate the purchase of matches.
When someone points a gun at a cop and the cop defends his life, we blame the gun instead of the person. I’m very sad that a child was shot. Where were the parents? Too busy to know their kid had a gun? Too busy to tell their kid that you don’t point a gun at anyone, including a cop who’s also got a gun? How is it the gun’s fault?
Edith
I couldn’t agree more.
Why isn’t someone looking into banning alcool or cars? Drunk driving kills more people than guns.
J-F
Edith
Vey well said and I agree 100% as the instruments used to kill people cannot do so without a person using that instrument.
My stance albeit very radical and impossible to ever enforce or complete is if you ban guns from law abiding citizens hands then you need to ban all forms of privately owned transportations also as it is no different if I pick up a gun and shoot some one than it is if I get behind the wheel of a vehicle drunk and kill some one while driving drunk. either way it is premeditated murder and should carry the exact same sentences be it life in prison or the death penalty. And as far as the death penalty is concerned you should be given a maximum of two years to appeal and prove your innocence and if it cannot be proven in those two years then the sentence should be carried out instead of the taxpayers supporting prisoners on death row for 20 plus years as that is just plain ridiculous and totally unnecessary for us to foot the bill for any where that amount of time.
BD
I remember as a kid ( I’m BBs age ) that Crosman had a co2 Peacemaker. It looked fairly real and shot decently. While not an airgun, I installed a M1 carbine tribute kit on one of my 10/22s. It is a pretty good copy of a couple of the guns I carried in a land far, far away a very long time ago.
Tom,
You are remembering either the Crosman 44 Shiloh or the Crosman Single Action 6 (SA-6). I had a SA-6. It was my first new pellet gun. But I owned it at a time when Crosman was selling the “bottlecap” CO2 cartridges that leaked so bad. So I never really appreciated it.
B.B..
It must have been the SA6. At the time I took the short pistol barrel from the Daisy bb pistol. Shortened the barrel tube on a Red Ryder, installed the short barrel, cut the stock. Mare’s Leg. I did at least two that way. I have a shorty stuck back. When I come across the correct RR, I’ll make another.
Tom
I have several Peacemaker lookalikes. The SA 6 in 22 , with co2 cylinder under the barrel, the daisy spring fired bb version ,the bb co2 versions of the Sa . Nice but primitive compared to the Webley. Hopefully a cartridge version of the Colt Single Action is coming soon. A version of the Remington 1875 , that the Shiloh tried to be , would also be nice
I continue to be puzzled by the the number of realistic replica pistols that only shoot BBs. If I was laying down $200-plus for an airgun I would want something with more accuracy. Why almost no pellet shooters in the recent crop? Is it the required changes to the loading system or ammo feed problems that are causing the manufacturers to shun lead? For the BB machine guns I can understand the ammo monogamy, but not for single action guns or revolvers….
This is a great trend, though, and I hope it leads to some good long gun replicas as well.
Hiveseeker,
There is a very simple answer to your question. These replica guns are all being made by airsoft manufacturers. To make a BB gun all they have to do is change the diameter of the bore and cartridge mouth. That’s is simple. To make a pellet gun they would have to learn how to rifle barrels. That costs tens of thousands of dollars, plus there is an education process.
B.B.
Yes good point. I’m sure there’s a version of the’Dan Wesson’ revolvers which shoots pellets, though I have not tired one. Pellets and a rifled barrel would be far better. I would have bought the Webley in any case though….
Oliver,
There is a pellet version of the Dan Wesson. I tested it just a few months ago. It wasn’t nearly as nice as the Dan Wesson BB pistol.
/blog/2014/08/dan-wesson-8-inch-co2-pellet-revolver-part-3/
B.B.
This is why people keep coming back here. Where else will you find such a good report on a replica airgun.
Most reviews will just say “this is cool” “it has lots of power” no one talks about the actual firearm, the links between the two, the details you provide, the side by side pics!
I knew nothing about the firearm before today and felt this revolver looked a bit awkward. I knew it was a revolver of days past but that was it.
Now that I know more about it, I want one. I love these replicas, I think they would the last to leave my collection if I had to get rid of it for a reason or another.
Thanks for making such great reports.
J-F
J-F,
Awkward? Yes, this is a very awkward handgun. I think that is a great part of its charm. I reminds me of the comic strip, Fearless Fosdick, where every bullet fired made a large round hole in its victim. Those were certainly different days!
B.B.
It has all kinds of levers and buttons that I’m just not used to. So yes it looks kinda weird to me. 😉
Personally I think I would put the safety off, sand the button down until it’s flush with the frame and fill the open part so it’s not apparent. It would look much better IMHO.
J-F
B.B.,
You’re right, these replicas look like fun, and a better way to simulate the originals. Besides expense, many antiques are in poor condition.
We had quite an unusual firearms collection in Iraq in 2003, including several .455 and .38 Webleys. I’ve long admired the .455 Webley.
I’m glad to hear there is a Colt SAA on the way. That is my first choice, too. I hope the safety is omitted on the Colt.
B.B., which is the best of the BB sub guns using a 88/90gram cartridge? I’d like to have an automatic BB gun for visitors to shoot.
Best wishes to all,
RB
RB,
There aren’t many airguns that use the larger cylinders. I like the Walther Lever Action the best, It is a very accurate 8-shot replica. But many folks like the Hammerli 850 AirMagnum — a bolt action repeater that’s almost a CO2 version of a PCP rifle.
B.B.
Tom,
Hey . . . how about a Mare’s Leg pistol version of the Walther Lever Action? Yes, they’d need to resurrect the old CO2 mechanism to do it, but no one can convince me any Old West gun is more cool than that. (I’ll consider the SAA tied with it to prevent any feuding.)
If I’m not mistaken, there is already a gas-powered airsoft version of it.
Michael
I want to know why they can’t make these into pellet guns instead of bb guns. I’ll be interested in your accuracy testing, but I doubt anyone will be terribly impressed.
For the money, seems like the least they could do would be to make something accurate, and that generally means pellets over bbs.
Whoops, looks like I should reload the comments before commenting if I’ve had the page open awhile.
I stand by what I say though, for the money they should shoot pellets.
Sounds like Tim and I think alike. Thanks for the explanation, B.B., which makes perfect sense–I figured dollar signs factored in there one way or another. I’ll keep my fingers crossed for some more pellet pistol and rifle replicas, nonetheless!
Well… for the revolver, they could modify the cartridges to take pellets.
But consider… The estimated velocity with light BBs bouncing down a smoothbore barrel is only around 380fps.
Now consider what the velocity of a pellet would be given that same propelling impulse — remember, revolvers have an open gap between cylinder and barrel; most of the velocity is achieved before the BB passes the gap.
Pellet with rifled barrel? It likely is going to stall within the barrel.
Semi-autos are a sealed system, so don’t have that big air gap leakage problem. BUT… most all repeating PELLET semi-autos are really double-action revolvers internally, using circular magazines — not realistic if one thinks vertical stack magazine (as found in the BB semi-autos). Getting reliable feeding of diabolo shaped pellets that are stacked in a column will be very problematic — and likely to damage pellets (goodby accuracy).
B.B.
Speaking of realistic replica airguns, KWC’s 2014 catalog appears to show a couple of Glock replicas that are listed as “coming soon”. Do you know anything about these two BB pistols?
Charles,
I sure don’t. But if they are coming, no doubt Pyramyd AIR will get them soon.
I will say that Glock has been singularly against licensing their designs to airsoft manufacturers. They stonewalled for more than a decade while other brand were being more receptive.
B.B.
It would be nice to see this as a pellet pistol, Brocock used to do a similar thing but with charged brass shells, the problem was, at least over here, it wasn’t rocket science to sleeve the cylinder for 22 rounds and hold up the local post office….which was done with some regularity so they got banned, though I can,t help thinking a little retooling to charge the cylinder and place a clip in the front would have been better, maybe too expensive for the company at the time.
Obviously as a Brit, I love the 455 Webley, as did the officers who were not greatly enamoured of the 38 and often elected to buy their own 455’s, a real fistful of pistol and a good trench broom, quick to reload from a pull off clip and with a hefty wallop, they kick because the bore line is high, but a better than average barrel for a service revolver and a healthy dose of mass meant it had a pretty good range when required.
Doesn’t it feel great in the hand though BB!
Dom,
The Mark VI does feel great. I haven’t decided about the Mark I I also have. It has a rounded grip like a single action. I guess I have to take these to the range and find out for certain! Darn! 😉
B.B.
Makes me froth when people shave a MK6 for 45 ACP and moon clips
like taking an E Type and putting a small block Chevy in it
Should be publicly birched for it
Also potentially lethal, as I think given the heavier charge/modern propellant the .45 effectively puts a proving charge through the MkVI each time!
Oliver,
That’s why we load them down. I reloaded for an old Trainter that was a lot older than this mark VI. My cast lead bullets left the bore at under 600 f.p.s. and felt like rimfire rounds when they went off.
B.B.
Dom,
I used to think that, too, but I recently discovered that the British government did some conversions, as well. Apparently, it was easier to get the U.S. ammo in some places, so it made sense.
I always thought of those who shaved the back of the cylinder as rednecks who were too lazy to reload, but apparently there is a skeleton in the Webley closet!
B.B.
I absolutely loved the Webley MK6 BB gun. This is one of my favorite revolvers! I have seen at least one converted MK6 here. Its owner was very cautious about the handloaded 45ACP he would fire in his gun, but other than that, it would work perfectly well. I think only very hardcore collectors would miss the chance of shooting a Webley MK6, and if 455 cases are not available, why not give the old ACP workhorse a try?
By the way, I know that some Brazilian Nagant revolvers (made in 1880s) were converted to fire the 45ACP in the late 1930s when we were purchasing the Colt 1911 and S&W 1917 revolvers for the Army. To the best of my knowledge, these converted revolvers would serve with the Rio de Janeiro Police (then our capital city) during the war, so they were not private conversions. Today, these big bore revolvers sell for almost nothing due to lack of the original .440 ammunition. If there are any 45 converted Nagants around, they certainly have never knocked my door.
I think it’s a perception because there are so few unshaven Webleys now, and that heavy 455 just sounds different, more of a boom than a crack…seems a shame….without getting too nationalistic and misty eyed, it’s one of those British sounds, like a Bonneville under throttle, or an MGB’s muted burble, or the rustling idle of a Jag V12, a Spitfire coughing to life, the whump of a 303 Enfield….the chanting of a football hooligan etc 🙂
The conversion was done by a lot of importers (like Hunters Lodge) back in the 1950-60’s to sell the Webley’s in the USA. in case someone wants to try , you can also cut down old .30-06 or .308 empties with spilit necks and make full cylinder length shot load cases for your Webley.revolver. I made three for mine which fills one half moon clip. Works for 10 foot shots on rats in my chicken house.
I wish they made these look-a-like airguns to shoot pellets instead of BB, but that would add more manufacturing cost because people will also judge the gun’s accuracy also, thus the manufacturers will HAVE to install a rifled barrel. Also pellet don’t ricochet like a BB, NICE!
Nice gun! and it’s a Webley. Could this possibly be in rapid response and a precursor to the call for a Webley-Fosbery automatic revolver?
If so they’re doing great!
Always wanted one of these behemoths!
B.B.,
I too have become wrapped up in collecting these replica pistols (I do wish there were more replica rifles available). I have a lot of these pistols plus the Walther 1894 rifle. They are addicting, plus they make it affordable enough to be able to get a new gun much more frequently than rifles do which is always exciting.
I ordered my Webley Friday night. It should be here today. I am glad you are championing this concept. It’s great fun to be a “collector”!
G&G
I’ll probably wind up getting one of the Makarov’s to start with and it’s just up to what hits the market after I get a safe. but my real fun is in the hunting guns so look out Air force.
B.B.,
I meant to add that I agree with heavypellet@yahoo.com. I do wish more of these pistols were pellet shooters as long as the configuration of the gun allowed it.
G&G
G&G,
But loading the ammo for the pellet-shooting Dan Wesson revolvers (and others like them) is pretty tedious and more time-consuming than the BB versions.
Edith
Edith,
Boy do I agree with that, especially regarding revolvers, plus the velocity loss on the Dan Wesson is unacceptable IMHO. I think that could be overcome though. I, if you can believe it, even have an idea for that. It would be hard to accurately describe without pictures though.
However, I believe most pistols can still be pellet shooters. Thanks for your reply.
G&G
What are the chances we could see a blowback gun using these bb cartridges? Does the blowback have enough force to extract and eject a casing?
Josh,
Almost anything is possible. Yes, it could be done. But the Webley-Fosbery automatic revolver blows the entire top of the handgun back! It would be a gas hog.
B.B.
But just imagine the smiles induced by those 6-8 shots in full auto 🙂
Reb
Reb,
It would be semi-auto. The pistol is semiautomatic, only. It’s called an automatic because at that time, semi-auto operation was commonly called automatic. (as in .45 Automatic Colt Pistol — ACP)
B.B.
I guess you’re right but Van Helsing really had his way with that trigger!
It sure is ta realistic looking revolver. There are so many makes and models available now of replica BB guns it has to be great for the collector. I also wished it was a pellet gun, something else to wish for. Will wait for BBs accuracy tests to see if I can live with out this.
Harvey
Tom,
“The sights are fixed, as are the sights on the military revolver.” I thought the firearm has a front sight that is adjustable for elevation.
Michael
Michael,
Well, son of a gun! You smart guy!
I just examined the Mark VI and found a small screw on the right side of the front sight base. I believe you are right!
Whoda thunk? I will shot a picture of that in the next report. The BB gun sight is fixed, though.
B.B.
Tom,
Not bad for a non-powder-burner, eh? I might not shoot ’em, but I have studied them for my whole life.
I’m not really very smart, however. My only side-cocker air rifle (terrible mechanism for a lefty) is one of those old Chinese things that look like an AK without a magazine. It took me a bunch of shots to figure out I was adjusting the front sight the wrong way! Duh! Down = Higher / Up = Lower. I came a too-close-for-comfort half inch from the top of my backstop by the time I figured that one out. Whew!
Michael
It’s a real shame they missed that intricacy.
Reb
Glad to see you back on the blog as Gunfun and me were getting worried that something had happened to you and I called and talk to your nephew tonight and he said you were fine and enjoying your regal and got the trigger to your liking. So what was the end result with the trigger that you did to get it how you like it , did you try the bearing trick or just use the adjustment screw or a longer screw or what.
I want to know how you are doing with it and how it groups for you.
BD
With so many wanting a rifled barrel, but also wanting the ease of loading a bb, how about a rifled barrel and using lead bbs. This was the same type of loading procedure could be used. That said, due to the increased weight of the lead bb, velocity would be less if nothing else is changed. But hey, lets hop it up, put on a .22 cal rifled barrel and shoot .22 cal lead balls.
To be fair, this pistol is really about tactility, it’ll never be a HW35 or even a Webley Tempest, if you can knock a beer can over down the garden, that’s almost an aside.
HW45 even, it definitely won’t be a HW35!
Dom,
Yeah, I wondered about that, too!
B.B.e
I haven’t fathomed who makes this Webley yet?, any clues to country of origin on the packaging?
Dom,
Taiwan.
B.B.
Bradly, you can still get lead BB from both H&N and RWS….a lot of European gallery guns used it, and a few autoloaders in the 70’s and early 80’s ….most Co2 pistols don’t really have the energy to push lead around but it wouldn’t be a leap to see a revalved and rifled version of this promising better accuracy at expense of some gas
But heck, I’m still waiting for a higher powered PCP version of the Walther Lever Action with a Lothar barrel and a scope mount (which has just been released)……and that probably won’t be happening either.
Dom, I have some different lead round balls I’ve shot through rifled and smooth bore co2 pistols. Some, like the Gamo round balls I have, are hard (for lead) and under sized like a steel bb (will roll out of a barrel). While others I have are “over sized” compared to a bb and they are “softer” lead. These will not roll out of a barrel and you better have enough gas in the tank left of they will jam in the barrel.
So you’ve actually fired a centrefire Tranter BB!
That’s a rare pistol
It’s funny how the profile of those, the Webleys, the Enfields and the Adam’s all have a very British silhouette whether cap and ball or cartridge
Pinkerton was a Tranter fan
What did you think of it, and how do you think it compared to it’s US contemporaries?
Dom,
Have I been misspelling it all along? No wonder I can’t find them on Gun Broker!
I actually owned a big Tranter for one month, back in the 1970s. I traded for it at a gun show, took it home, reloaded for it, shot it (poorly) and was delighted when the guy I traded with asked for it back.
Although it didn’t shoot that well (it was probably a .476 that I was loading like a .455), I thought it was the quirkiest gun I had ever seen! I will never forget the strange look and feel of that big revolver!
B.B.
You’ll struggle to find a centre fire however you spell it to be honest, they were much more common in cap and ball….yes, probably a 476 as they weren’t known to be inaccurate
A better, and simpler revolver that bridged the gap between the Tranter and Webley was the lovely Beaumont-Adams…of which quite a few centre fires still exist as shooters
I suggest you don’t search out a Tranter 476 centre fire in shootable order
Whatever you sold it for….it’ll be upsetting 🙂
Dom,
That’s the story of my life.
B.B.
BB
Colour Sargent not Color Sargent if you want authenticity!
I have both the Walther CP88 and the Gamo P23. Rifled barrels both and accurate shooters. The CP88 uses pellets and the P23 lead ball. Nice as those replicas are, when I see bb I am turned off. Lets hope the replica rifles and the Colt SSA will be rifled. Townsend Welen rings like Shakespeare.
Ton.
I too used to be completely turned off by the replica BB guns but the attraction of the replica aspect finally won out over the fact they shot BB’s. Also, I don’t know if anyone else agrees but it seems to me that these BB guns have been getting more accurate as I am now comfortable using prescription bottles at 25ft. instead of soda cans.
G&G
Ton,
Of course you are right! I forgot the u.
B.B.
Colour Sergeant
🙂
Quite besides the spelling being different, the rank is actually quite different, which isn’t unusual at all, a US Sergeant is supposed to salute a British or Russian one, who in turn are supposed to salute a Chinese one…..however the net effect in practice with multi national excercise, no one salutes the privates but everyone salutes everyone else until about day 3 when no one salutes anyone unless they are covered in gold braid.
There is a Nato “ready reckoner” that squaddies are issued, but you’d spend all day checking the other one for pips and things and leafing from page to page·
Dom,
Boy — do I remember that! I was in a multi-national European field exercise in the ’70s called Grosse Bar and I (as a U.S. captain) saluted all sorts of juniors. They were covered in stars and pips and all sorts of hardware I had never seen before.
B.B.
In the very late ’60’s, we were transitioning from the pretty bright yellow rank stripes on the upper arm (as in Sargent, Spec 4, etc) to the new subdued black-on-green rank stripes. As an alternative, we were authorized subdued collar tabs of the appropriate rank, with identical placement as say, an Armored Captain clad in fatigues. (Wink to B. B.)
It would seem the U. S. Marines never got the memo on this foilable and for at least the next year, we lowley U. S. Army EM types through happenstance living and serving with the Marine Corps resigned ourselves to returning the salutes of every Marine Lance Corporal and
Navy JG (and on up) that we happened to run into.
I can recall being saluted by a Navy LT Commander.
The flip side was occasionally the Marine/Navy types, having saluted too many Army PFC’s, wouldn’t salute anybody in green anymore. The entirely predictable result I witnessed one day was a Marine 2nd Lt walking right by a Special Forces Captain less the salute.
Oh, my. The language was quite spectacular. Not bearing repeating in a family web-site, as they say.
2nd LT’s are often referred to as “shave-tails.” This one more accurately would have been called a “singe-tail.”
After the Marine departed, the Captain looked at me and said, “You didn’t see that, did you?
“No Sir! Didn’t see a thing, Sir! ” and then quiter, “Good one, Captain. Nice work.”
He then winked at me and we both laughed.
I don’t normally post links, but as we are discussing historic British service pistols, youtube “Yeoman Warder at Tower of London Part 2 of 4”
For some ripe British military humour…..and a bit of history too
Thanks for that recommendation, i needed a giggle
Military humor (humour) Always a bit salty.
Wildey
The Webley VI service revolver does not have an adjustable front sight. They are removable, but it is unwise to do so.The little screw simply holds the front sight in place. The sights were sighted in by having the front sight replaced by the armorer if needed before being issued. Please do not remove the screw as they are difficult to locate once lost, and easy to strip. If it ain’t broke don’t break it….especially if it is a classic. Your heirs will be grateful.
Rich,
Thank you for that! I will still show it, but I’ll include your warning. Did the armourers (note my spelling) have blades of different heights?
B.B.
Tom and Rich,
Son of a gun! Turns out I’m not a smart guy after all.
I haven’t opened my just-arrived Webley MK VI as I bought it for myself as a Christmas present, and I still say the Walther Lever Action Mares Leg and an Umarex MAC-10 would be sensations.
But something about the British Bulldog being mentioned gave me an uneasy feeling in my gut.. So I looked it up. It or variations of it were the Guiteau gun (assasination of President Garfield) and the Berkowitz/Son of Sam serial killer gun. That model has bad mojo, a creepy gun.
Michael
Rich is correct in his statement above, and in some variants the screw is replaced by a pin
If I had to criticise this revolver, I would say that they could have made an effort to replicate the length and weight of the shells so the eject mechanism would work….not a major factor and I guess you don’t want them falling at your feet…..a simple cross pin in the trigger would have satisfied those markets that needed a safety catch and it’s a shame the back of the action isn’t flush with the release lever……but….nitpicking really……I won’t be buying one, desireable as it is……$200 maybe……£190…..no chance
Incidentally BB, your nemesis with the air fillable C02 powerlets is back, they look better made now (in France)
On my version the full automatic ejector does work fine, the used shells shoot into the air with great conviction as the gun is broken open!
Oliver,
No kidding? My revolver just doesn’t have that at all!
B.B.
I haven’t seen one yet that hasn’t got the ejector mechanism?
maybe removed on US models?
Pinning the sight was often a field modification once the screw was lost, especially on the surplus guns when spares were not available. We used to work on these pretty regularly back in the ’80s, when they were fairly cheap and plentiful. I often carried one in the field, altered to .45 ACP with shot cartridges in clips to remove snakes. There was also lead bulleted .45 Auto-rim ammo that worked well when loading singly.
There is a small spring in the ejector cam (located inside of the hinge) that can be broken/lost/gunked up with solidified cosmoline that will cause the ejector cam to not function. Also it may be that the finger that projects from the ejector cam is broken, or the cylinder spring is missing. All of the Webley service patterns Mk I-Vi should self-extract when the revolver is opened.
Dom,
Do you know they (my nemesis) are still trying to hound me for telling the truth about their vaporware product? Every year of two they hire yet another solicitor who girds his loins and comes at me afresh! They actually want me to retract what I said in print over 20 year ago!
Actually, I believe they want me to recant.
B.B.
The Spanish Inquisition? Hmmm, Gamo is Spanish, isn’t it?
The proof of the pudding, as they say, is in the eating, and it, as a product, was given a healthy dose of ignoring over here, which, at the time had little to do with any US reviews
However, this looks like a better made product, even if some of the principles remain, let’s say, rather over simplified. The one thing that causes me to check myself is they are being sold by one of the largest airgun dealers in the UK, which I find strange, though their news feed suggests they are yet to test it……I would advise they do so with haste.
The individual in question used to work for Lane’s pellets…..MD I think……and I can say his grounding in ballistics was at least questionable….who can forget “Lane’s Heavyweights” ?……….well most of us actually, a pellet that had more than a passing resemblance to a small wasp….complete with a joining rod between body and thorax…..went through everything sideways like 17th century chain shot
“The first model out of my mouth was the Colt Single Action Army, and we will see that one next year,”
Hooray! Thanks for keeping on this for us, B.B.!
When I was in 6th grade, I bought this firearm through the mail for $20! It came with half-moon clips and fired .45 ACPs. You could buy the rimmed versions but they were more expensive. The firing pin broke off and I had a new one soldered on at a local gun shop in east TN. I eventually sold it at another sporting goods store up the road (I road my bicycle there—try that today when you’re 11 years old and see what happens!). I was never that excited about it though…I preferred my Colt New Frontier .22 SAA (Westerns were popular on TV then).
The Webley MK IV…..in my opinion, is a far superior revolver to the SAA (what do you mean I would say that?)
With a pouch of 6 shot moon clips on your left hip, the break design, and the double action, the firepower was far greater…..not far off a 1911 in fact.
I’ll take a deep breath now and remember this is a US site so braced for a disagreement 🙂
PS Umarex, if you are listening, the design of the Lancaster pistol lends itself to a PCP setup with a pair of barrels blanked 😉
One thing I want to know is what is the gun made out of. If it’s metal I desire the gun. If plastic I wouldn’t touch the gun. I like my pistols to be as authentic as possible.
John,
It is all metal.
B.B.
Agatha’s last name is spelled “Christie”.
Steve,
Of course it is! I fixed it. Thanks for alerting us.
Edith
BB sir,
The cylinder stop on my Dan Wesson 6” revolver is plastic and wore out after a couple months use. Now it’s useless. A waste of 120$. Do you know if any bb gun revolvers with a metal cylinder stop? Like maybe the Colt Python? I want a more reliable revolver to replace my DW.
Can’t find an answer to this question anywhere.
Thank you sir for any response!
Jr
Jr,
By “cylinder stop” I assume you are talking about the bolt? That is the square-ish part that drops into the squared hole (called the bolt hole) that/s at the end of a scalloped groove called the approach.
I’m saying all of this to try to understand what kind of problem you have.
There are all-metal guns with metal parts, but the metal is pot metal. I’m afraid that is almost as soft as plastic and will also wear out.
It sounds as though you shoot your revolver a lot in the double-action mode. If that is the case, I would look at the S&W 586. It is also made of pot metal, but it doesn’t index and lock in the same way. The cylinder is a fixed part that doesn’t move and the pellet disc is a thin disc in front of the cylinder.
I can’t say that this will work for sure, but it’s the best guess I can offer.
B.B.
BB,
Thanks for your reply. I always learn so much from your blogs and replies!! You are correct. I am referring to the bolt. I will have a go at the S&W 586.
I guess the Webley will wear out with use as well. I’ll start thinking of these guns more as wall hangers and stick to air rifles with replaceable parts for the majority of my air gunning.
Your expert advice is much appreciated!! Enjoy the holidays!
Jr
Jr,
Please understand that all of what I said is just a best guess. I guess the Webley will wear out with continued double action shooting, but I don’t know that. At this point I doubt that anyone can say it for sure.
And it is also a guess that the S&W 586 will be better in this respect, just because of its design.
I hope it works for you.
B.B.
The Webley design uses a cylinder stop and a projection on the trigger to prevent rotation of the cylinder. When uncocked, the forward cylinder stop prevents rotation (which was an issue on earlier British DA revolvers) by way of the forward square set of slots on the cylinder. When the trigger is pulled, or the hammer is cocked, the projection on the trigger acts on the rear set of slots (which look more like six grooves at the back of the cylinder) to lock the cylinder prior to firing. This has the effect of compensating for wear on these parts on the Service revolver. The air pistol version may also be a bit more forgiving of wear in this regard than some others.
That 1937 British training manual for the Mark VI is available online as a PDF file:
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/manuals/webleymanual.pdf
I do not understand the interest in $200 BB guns. For that price, one can buy a Walther CP88 with a rifled six inch barrel which will shoot with decent accuracy to 10M. If one must have a revolver, then why not produce looks like x, y or z versions of the Vigilante, which also has a rifled barrel, uses ten pellet clips, and again shoots accurately to 10m. Not expensive enough? No problem. Switch to an all metal chassis and emulate all the details you want, but at least provide a 10m accurate rifled barrel pellet shooter for $200. $200 for a BB gun is not just silly, it’s very silly.
And, yet, these items DO sell. Others see things in these guns that you do not find enticing. Different strokes for different folks. Why do people buy guns that are very powerful but aren’t accurate? There are millions of people who buy guns like that.
Edith
If so, then others are able to swallow a con more easily than I. You seem in essence to be suggesting that it is our right as consumers to be fleeced, so long as the product carries enough chrome. That seems a sad, rather cynical, reflection on our collective intelligence. I think we could do better by declining to fall for offers of jumped up and overpriced toys, and holding out at least for decent quality 10m rifled barrel pellet shooters when we are asked to front $200 for a CO2 air pistol.
As for the millions who “b[u]y guns that are [or are pitched as being] very powerful but aren’t accurate,” their lack of wisdom has more than once drawn less than wholly sympathetic notice from Mr. Gaylord in this column.
Why Edith, what did you do with my reply?
I did nothing with your comment.
I answered your comment. But by the time I refreshed the screen, I see that Tom had mistakenly put it in the trash. He thought it was from someone who’d been banned but was trying to comment under another name. I unspammed it. Should be live, again.
Edith
Thank you for restoring my basis for assuming journalist integrity in this blog.
The point isn’t that it’s a BB gun, but rather that it is an extremely realistic replica of a Webley Mark VI that you can actually shoot. What it shoots isn’t all that important. The cost and value lie in how close the replica is to the actual historical firearm.
Yes it is silly, but it is also a bit of fun. This would not be my choice for my only air pistol, but it is a fun plinker if you are a history buff or a Webley revolver owner.
Rich, I can see how someone who is a history buff could be drawn to this. With respect, for a history buff over 21 who is a citizen of one of the large majority of states which are not irrationally restrictive concerning handguns, the same money could buy a curio and relic FFL, a Harrington & Richardson or like .32 S&W or .38 S&W antique or curio top-break revolver in shooting condition, and a first box of ammunition.
I took my undergrad degree in History. To any history buff over 21 who is considering fronting $200 for a look-alike BB gun, I recommend that you consider a historic firearm instead. You will not shoot your historic firearm as often as you might shoot a BB gun, but you almost certainly will find much more satisfaction in doing so. For myself, I prefer automatics. I assure you I have enjoyed occasionally shooting a 1907 Savage in my modest collection much more than I would enjoy shooting a look alike BB gun every day. And if I wish to shoot every day, I much prefer to do so with a rifled barrel pellet shooter accurate at 10m.
Which brings me to my final point. I take issue less with shooters than with manufacturers who are cynically enticing shooters to pay hundreds of dollars for a chromed up BB gun, when they could easily provide shooters an equally detailed rifled barrel pellet shooter accurate at 10m for the same or less money. The proof of concept is the Crosman Vigilante, the family line of which has existed for decades, and the chassis of which could be chromed up to look-alike levels. That manufacturers are so ready to foist jumped up look-alike smooth bore toys upon us at $200 a pop is to their shame and should be met by our sales resistance. The manufacturers could do right by us, and if the air arms press is not going to make the case for us, then it is up to us to do so for ourselves by not rewarding the manufacturers for trying to con us.
I never stated, suggested or intimated that people should be fleeced. That was something you made up from a simple statement I made about allowing people the right to buy and use whatever they want. It’s their money. They may spend it as they wish. All anyone else can do is give their opinion when asked. No one has to take anyone’s advice.
As for a $200 CO2 BB gun that I’m guessing you think is overpriced, I’m pretty sure that Webley MkVI on loan from Pyramyd AIR will have to be bought for Tom so he doesn’t have to return it. He mentions it to everyone and shows it to his friends. It’s a keeper 🙂
Edith
If you wish to comment upon my reply to your reply to my original comment, then you should at least have done me the courtesy of not deleting my reply. Journalistic integrity 101.
As to the $200 toy, it is certainly overpriced, as I see it. Still, reasonable minds may differ. Mr. Gaylord may certainly keep his if he is favorably impressed by it . . . and might do so even if he were not.
Thank you for rescuing my original comment from the circular file.
I don’t feel compelled to buy one, but it is an interesting option. Shooting the BB gun version would cost quite a bit less than shooting one of the original cartridge versions, even if it has been converted to .45 ACP. .455 can be a challenge to locate and tends to cost a bit more, in my experience. If one were to use the BB version in the garage at 20′, it may well pay for itself pretty quick in ammunition cost savings.
I managed to mount a old Weaver scope on my Daisy 499 and with Avanti shot and the right
hold over it will hit a shotshell every time at 25 yards. Also I have a Benjamin 340 (smoothbore)
that shoots almost as well with some pellets. Maybe we could just convert the shells to shoot
pellets and leave the barrel smooth, the Benjamin doesn’t loose much speed with light pellets.
Great firearm. Quite authentic. I am very pleased by the realistic function of nearly all the parts. It is so much fun to shoot, that I can lose track of time.
As far as looks are concerned, very little is just stamped in for effect. I have one suggestion which would greatly enhance the appearance. The grips should be wood, or to keep the costs down, simulated wood as in many other replica guns.
Thomas,
Welcome to the blog. You aren’t the first person to ask for wood grips on the BB gun. I wonder if the firearm grips will fit?
B.B.
Pt 2 coming soon? I hope. This one is nice!
my bad…..Pt 2 & 3 already there. Hitting the link on PA sight to latest buzz on this gun and the Colt Single Action Army just takes me to part 1.