by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Benjamin Legacy with a gas spring was a short-lived breakbarrel.
This report covers:
- Getting started
- The hold
- First group
- Second group
- After that
- Additional data
- What’s next?
Let’s look at the accuracy of the .22-caliber Benjamin Legacy gas-spring rifle. If you remember, this was a rifle that came out just before I went into the hospital in 2010. When I got out 3 months later, the gun had already been taken off the market. I never reviewed it for you because it was an airgun you couldn’t buy, but the fact that it only took 16 lbs. of force to cock it fascinated me. I wanted to see what it could do regardless of whether or not you could buy one; because, if this turned out to be a good idea, it’s worth doing again.
Sometimes, the magic doesn’t work, and today’s one of those times. I’ve actually shot it at 25 yards on 2 different occasions, and neither time did it do very well. But, I do see a glimmer of hope. Let’s see what happened.
Getting started
I sighted in and began the test using the 13.43-grain JSB Exact RS pellet. From previous experience, I knew the rifle liked it.
The sight-in target turned out to have the tightest “group” of the entire test, despite the fact that I’d adjusted the scope 3 separate times! About 13 rounds went into 1.143 inches at 25 yards. I’m discounting the first shot from 12 feet that was only to confirm the zero. You can clearly see that I was adjusting the scope to the left, yet all these shots except 1 landed in what appears to be a good group. If the rifle had shot this well for the rest of the test, I would be singing its praises right now.
These shots were fired from 25 yards, except for the one low shot indicated on the target. That was the first shot from 12 feet to confirm zero. I adjusted the scope 3 times while creating this “group.”
I’m not expecting this rifle to have the same kind of accuracy you get from a TX200 Mark III. This one would sell for a fraction of the price of a TX today — maybe only one-third as much. But it cocks with just 16 lbs. of effort, which makes it ideal for shooting all day long. There’s no vibration and not a lot of discharge sound. And the 2-stage trigger is reasonably good — not perfect, but very tolerable. I’m always on the lookout for a good all-day shooter, and this one seemed promising. But, it first had to shoot, which is what this test is all about.
I sighted-in and began the test using the 13.43-grain JSB Exact RS pellet. From previous experience I knew the rifle liked it.
The hold
I tried every combination of holds I know, and the rifle shot best when rested directly on the sandbag. That’s another reason to like it.
First group
The group I’m about to show you isn’t the first group in the test. It’s just the first group I fired on the second day of the test. On day 1, my results weren’t very good — though it took a second day of testing to confirm that it was the rifle and not me. The group began well, with 5 shots landing in just about a half-inch. Then, the trouble began. First, a shot dropped low. Then, the next shots went high. By the end of the group, there were 10 shots in 1.308 inches. You can see this is a very vertical group.
Ten JSB Exact RS pellets went into 1.308 inches at 25 yards off a sandbag rest. See how vertical this group is? Funny thing is that the first 5 shots landed in the much tighter group in the center of this group — along with 1 additional shot.
Note that this smaller group spreads out horizontally within the vertical main group. I’ll come back to that. I think it’s important.
Second group
The second group was shot with RWS Superdomes. It’s lower on the target, which is expected because the .22-caliber Superdome weighs 14.5 grains and travels slower than the lighter JSB RS. This group is also interesting for 2 other reasons. First, there’s both a horizontal and a vertical spread to this group.
Second, several of these pellet holes are torn on the right side. That’s an indication they didn’t hit the paper nose-first. They probably went through on an angle. The group measures 1.329 inches between the centers of the 2 holes farthest apart.
As you see, Superdomes spread out in both directions. But look at how the right sides of many holes are torn (arrows). These pellets were tipped when they went through the paper. Group measures 1.329 inches between centers.
After that
After the second group, the test turned ugly fast. Each new pellet I tried would put one in one place and the second one in a different place — some were even 2-3 inches away. And, most of the holes were torn on the right. I finally gave up.
These 2 pellet holes from Crosman Premier pellets have paper tears to the right of the holes.
The stock screws are all tight, and the scope is mounted well and works okay. The barrel pivot isn’t loose. But I have a thought. When this rifle was created, Crosman was starting to pay a lot of attention to silencing their spring rifles. Sure enough, there’s a chamber in the shroud in front of the true barrel; and sure enough, the exit hole at the muzzle is very small. The muzzle cap is actually a large hex screw; and on the inside edge of this screw, there six shiny bits of lead, where pellet after pellet has clipped the muzzle cap. I believe I’ve discovered the problem.
Each of the 6 corners of the hexagonal muzzle has a bright piece of lead, where it was nicked by the passing pellets.
Additional data
What I hadn’t told you until now is that I actually have two of these rifles. One is marked the Benjamin Legacy, and the other that I haven’t told you about is marked Crosman NPSS. It’s .22 caliber, as well, but it produces 100 f.p.s. greater velocity with the same pellets and the same 16 lbs. of cocking effort. And, it also produces very small groups.
The Crosman NPSS rifle put 5 JSB Exact RS pellets into 0.302 inches at 25 yards off a sandbag rest. It’s funny how accurate the gun is when the pellets don’t hit anything on their way out.
What’s next?
Next, I’ll try to fix the Legacy’s accuracy problem by enlarging the hole at the muzzle. If that fixes the groups, then I’ll have a sweet shooter that’s easy to cock.
They just need the proper marketing angle for this to become a success. An old design is not something to sneer at especially if the initial problems can be solved. Does this use a pin or a screw for its pivot?
Siraniko,
It has a screw.
B.B.
Super report! You wonder if you are the first to notice? Maybe that is why it was not a big success!
Wonderful engineering that screw cap, you wonder if the Peter Principle is in effect at Ben-Cross…
Can’t wait for Part V.
-Yogi
despite this being assembled in the US,possibly modified for gas ram etc I’ve seen less oriental things come out of a wok.
I’ll get the salt and pepper out for my trilby if Crosman made the barrel, compression tube, breech block etc.
Mind you, I’m having terrible problems with my Diana 38….can’t group less than an inch and a half at 15 yards..breech is tight, stock is tight, crown is perfect, trigger is lovely, barrel is clean…I’m on the third scope (desperation) and have put every quality pellet known to man through it….rested on bags and freehand, artillery hold….you name it….fresh out of ideas now.
Not a happy bunny.
Dom,.a.k.a. ( unhappy bunny ) 😉
Wow,….I would be bummed out too. Without knowing Diana’s or their “guts”, the only thing I can suggest is a hard rest. Gunfun1 recocmmended that to me awhile back. His was/is a towel layed over a saw horse,..1 or 2 folds/layers only. Mine is a 4×4 and 2×4 blocks with gasket material stuck on top.
Off hand is pulled back to trigger guard, only index finger lightly touches it. Groups did improve but I think the biggest benifit is that is (very easy to repeat the hold/rest position every time). Only about 1″ of forend is on the blocks.
Have you had it torn down yet? Spring, barrel lock up, baffles,..if any. I don’t know,..those groups at that range,…..something pretty big is definitly amiss. Best of luck.
Chris
Got to ask,…”trilby” ???
Trilby is a type of hat 🙂
No, this 38 is foxing me a bit, it shoots very smoothly, and is a big heavy version of the 34 with the same action, unusual in not a trace of droop. The thing is almost unused too.
I’m thrown off because of the lack of pattern to the inaccuracy, it just does big round groups.
I can half the group with a cheap Spanish Meteor and single hole with my Diana 52 and HW77 swapping between the rifles.
It may be some hold sensitivity that I haven’t stumbled upon yet….and I’m yet to try RWS Superdomes…but if it is SO hold sensitive…. It won’t be a keeper, I’m not really a benchrest shooter.
Dom,
That sounds like a challenge to me.
B.B.
Dom,
Throw in an “odd” word,…and you got me,…every time. 😉
Believe it or not, I thought about your “quandry” all day. Inconsistant fps via seal or spring, OR, baffles. That’s my best guess. “Gut’er and see what she tells ya. If nothing else, learn something new.
Again, best of luck,…Chris
No baffles on the barrel Chris, though at 47″ she’s a long old bird.
I rested it earlier, and lightened the trigger..and got a few one inch groups….which is better….but still not good
Now I find myself wondering how much of that bore is rifled.
I’ll bet it’s quiet!
Just a conventional barrel, rifled all the way, about the same sound as any normal full length springer, some very short barrels can get a crack to them, but most past 12″ or so sound much of a muchness
The D38 Firebird, is, basically a D34 in a D45 stock with a longer forend
All good stuff…and should be very accurate….weighs a pound or so more than the D34 and has the buttery T01 trigger
Currently has an RWS 4-12x40AO fitted on low RWS mounts
You’d put money on half inch groups at 30 yards in anyone’s hands, I’m getting 2″ at 15
Vexing
OK, how long is the barrel itself?
19.5″….with an overall rifle length of just over 46″ and a pull length of just over 14.5 inches
Chris, USA
Thanks for mentioning the rest I use.
But with that type of rest it does matter what the bottom of the stock is shaped like. If it has a flat surface on the bottom or has the cocking notch in the bottom of the stock then it works nice. The gun is very stable that way. Like that .25 caliber Hatsan underlever that I just got loves the rest that way. And mind you its the best .25 caliber spring or nitro piston gun I have shot yet. Well of course after I took it apart and tuned it.
But no on the other hand that Savage .22 rimfire rifle I got doesn’t do well with that rest I use. It has a very round stock on the bottom. Very little of the stock contacts the rest. I have to use my trigger hand to stabilize the gun from rolling to the left or right. In other words the gun wants to (cant). And the gun wants to slide left or right also and forward and backwards. So I have to lay my pointing finger on the barrel and stock of my front hand. So that gun would actually do better with a normal bag rest to cradle the stock.
So yes if you can’t just lay your gun on the rest and it doesn’t naturally point at your target and stay stable then your probably not going to shoot good groups.
Chris, USA
Oh and my saw horse has about seven 2×4’s that are about 8″ long duct taped very well to the top of the saw horse to get the correct height for the chair I set in.
And I also took the lid of one of my old JSB 15.89 pellets and wood screwed it on the right side of the top of the saw horse. That way I set my pellet tin in there of the pellet type I’m shooting. And it’s easy to grab my pellet with my loading hand and I don’t knock my pellets over. So kind of ergonomic actually.
IdA thought you woulda cut some grooves to cradle your babies if that was much of an issue?
It’s an idea.
Dom,
On the third scope? I think you haven’t dealt with the droop issue yet.
Remove the scope and shoot with irons, or if you don’t have open sights, dial the scope down to the bottom of its travel and shoot some groups. That’s the way to find out whether it is a scope issue or not.
B.B.
I’ve swapped the scope off my other rifles, one by one, I normally adjust a scope to the centre of it’s travel, then zero at 30m for 177 and 25m for .22 within an inch or so using thin rubber shim in the rear mount where needed, then micro adjust with the turret, and, frankly, never adjust again.
On this rifle swapping the scope over (remember power over here isn’t much of a variable, most of my guns produce around 11.7fpe) this rifle fires 6″ high…so I unshimmed the rear mounts to get it on target…it’s actually adjusted somewhat low now.
It also feels down on power, I would put it at around 10fpe….my Chronograph got…um…shot while doing 50m ballistic testing on a windy day :-), so that’s based on comparisons with the meteor (9.1fpe) and my HW77 (11.6fpe) which are my only other 22’s
Driving me a bit nuts, I’ve just sorted a Remington Express for a friend by recrowning it and bending the barrel straight…but it’s issues were obvious.
This one…not so much
I’m determined to fix it though
Dom
I don’t know if you want to try this.
Try putting a few drop’s of pellet gun oil in the barrel where you load the pellet. Then shoot a couple 10 shot groups with the pellet you think is best.
Some guns will improve when you do this some it does nothing to the results of the groups.
And if you don’t like it just clean your barrel as you normally do.
If you try it let me know what happens.
Nice report on a nice type of airgun. I am concern about the screw cap because if it is of center there must be markings on one or two sides not all of them. Perhaps the whole shroud is moving at a circular pattern upon firing and a very small hole of 1/4″ or even worse 6mm is way to close to the pellet path.
Bullseye,
When I drill out the screw head we will see whether the screw was off-center.
B.B.
If you fix that suppressor and get a new stock, that will be a nice air rifle.
I agree. Crosman should take a page out of Air Arms book and start making their stocks sexier. I am tired of seeing stocks that look like wooden clubs.
Would love to see a version of this gun in an underlever design with a nice 4×32 AO scope. Something I would definitely buy. Might replace the Mav 17 that failed to materialize.
Pete
Pete,
I had typed a response and it disappeared into the etherworld, never to be seen again.
Basically, it is not likely going to happen. Crosman quality is on a down cycle as they redesign their air rifles to reduce manufacturing time and cost.
Crosman, Gamo and such have their niche. My first air rifle was a Gamo.
Thanks for everyone’s patience as I wrapped up the 20 yard accuracy test for the Crosman 2400KT. Those results have now been posted IN THE COMMENTS of Part 8 (/blog/2015/06/crosmans-2400kt-carbine-part-8/).
Hiveseeker
I saw that yesterday. Glad you got to shoot out a little farther.
And the groups were pretty good. But I do know for a fact that I had some 2240’s and 1377 and 1322’s set up with longer barrels and steel breeches with scopes and the 1399 stock. And them guns will amaze you at how well they shoot out at farther distances. I’m talking like 50 yards. Oh and the 2240’s were still on Co2. That was before I did the hi-pac HPA conversion.
If by chance you ever get to a shooting range or somewhere that you can shoot out to 50 yards give it a try and post the results on that days blog. I would be interested to know.
And the reason I keep bringing up the longer distance is because I do the guns I mentioned and I’m sure the 2400’s also shoot good that far out. I hate for them to be under sold for what they really can do.
Davey was digging through the archives and commented about the lack of quality in air rifles under $300, so I decided to stir something up on Friday and post my reply here. 😉
“It is very hard to find a good quality air rifle for under $300. And as more and more companies redesign for cost savings, the quality descends into the abysmal pit. Both Crosman and Gamo use pins for their barrel pivots where previously they used screws.
I fear that Diana’s new owners may soon follow suit as they attempt to recoup their investment. I hope I am wrong. They have the perfect opportunity to take a very nice air rifle to the pinnacle. We’ll see.”
Good morning BB and all
Maybe someone can help
Beeman R8, made in West Germany, breech seal is synthetic and looks new, barrel looks great, smooth cycling, overall great condition with maybe one or two minor dents and no scrapes. No scope, just iron sights that look original, no peep sight.
Widow asking $330 for it. Too much?
I do not own the blue book and I know I should have it. Sorry
TE
If it is in very good condition, it’s worth it. That said, I would offer $250.00 and see what happens.
Mike
TE,
$330 is all the money for that airgun. And only that because it hasn’t been modified.
Don’t use the Blue Book for things like this. Use current market values that are made at airgun shows. That gun would sell quickly at $250, slower at $300 and at $330 it might take a couple years and several shows before that one buyer came along.
But an R8 is very desirable, so pay more if you want a nice airgun.
B.B.
TE,
R8’s rarely come up for sale here in the USA. Folks hang on to them. The prices for unmolested guns in decent shape sell quickly here.
Here’s one that sold last month for $495 +$25 for shipping. It has rust (patina) on the barrel and included an uninstalled vortek kit:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/thread/1432254675
Here’s one that sold two months ago WITHOUT THE SITES INCLUDED for $495.00. The gun sold in about one hour:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/thread/1428639429
kevin
That rusty patina near the end of the barrel could almost be considered normal wear, but it is avoidable.
It is caused by contact with a sweaty palm while cocking the gun.
This can be avoided by wiping the gun down with a silicone rag after handling it. I do this with all my guns, and have avoided this problem after ten year’s use on some of my guns.
Ballistol might work to remove it, but I would be careful as the blueing is also a form of rust.
Les
“Benjamin Legacy with a gas spring was a short-lived break barrel.” Those words are also true of my Titan. It looks like the nitro piston is two thirds the cost of the new rifle. Ouch! I expect I will order a new nitro gas spring, after I finish grieving for the first one and decide to break with the cash. ~ken
Ken,
you could go directly to themanufacturer and save about 2/3 of that price but It’s a lot of work, just get the expansion rate right.
Thanks, Reb. I am in no rush so I have time to explore options and try to get it right the first time.
~ken
Thanks, Reb. I am in no rush so I have time to explore options and try to get it right the first time.
There is a fellow at the local flea market that had 2 B3-1 underlevers on the table last week. Unfortunately he wants $60.00 a piece. I am unwilling to go a penny over $40.00 and I question my sanity on even that point. Still, they are .22 and I have all of these .22 pellets.
~ken
The external dimensions are pretty easy but I never really got the expansion rates understood well enough to gamble on it.
Good luck Ken!
Reb
Had I known some of those B-3’s were .22 I woulda given them a closer look but I agree that $40 is probably pushing it, although Buldawg said they’re going for $50-$60 and I don’t know if that meant .22 also
It surprises me that there are so few “all day shooters” on the market. I love my FWB124 for that – takes two fingers over the barrel to cock it. – guess it takes around 20 pounds force.
16 pounds on a gas-spring rifle would be really nice. The Legacy would probably do 625-650 fps in .177 calibre which would be perfect for plinking.
Most of my friends have “magnum” pellet rifles and would blanch at the suggestion of shooting a whole can of pellets in a shooting session.
I got my Father-in-law a Canadian “non-pal” Ruger Air Hawk Compo (rated at 495 fps) for Christmas and it is very easy to cock.
I should measure the force for fun. I am sure that this “de-tuned” rifle has no where near the 30 pounds listed for cocking the normal 1000 fps version.
For $100 Canadian mail-ordered from Walmart it shoots well enough for the casual plinking he does with it. I might try it on paper just to see what it can do.
Vana2
Vana2
I gave up on them magnum springers quite a few years back. Well I tryed some here and there throughout time thinking maybe it was because my shooting skills weren’t good enough yet. Nope still no luck with them. They just wouldn’t produce the groups I was after.
I will take a lower velocity easy cocking gun with a smooth shot cycle over them magnum guns anyday.
That Hatsan 200s I just got in .25 caliber I would consider a magnum. It took two hands practically to cock it. It sapped like a big dog and kicked just as bad.
You know what I did to it. Factory spring that had like 4″ of preload came out. It was already bent in two places after only about a100 shots. Then in went the factory spring from my Tx 200 went in it with a nylon spacer that Chris, USA sent me among some other shims and things that I had.
Now I can cock it with one hand. The shot cycle is great. No more kick or slap. And I didn’t get to chrony it before I took it apart but I do know that the JSB 15.89 pellets will still penatrate a 2×4 to exactly the same depth. So that means it should be shooting the same velocity.
So yes this gun BB is reviewing today would be a cool gun to have.
Suppose to say slap like a big dog.
And I meant the 31.02 grn Barracudas. I just ordered some JSB 15.89’s on my mind I guess. I just ordered some more.
Gunfun1
Don’t forget the Vitamin as it was a magnum springer that you had said was the best shooting break barrel gas spring gun you have ever shot and it was accurate as well.
Also that was a used Gunbroker gun that was bought for 100 bucks including shipping so there are some goods one out there but I agree for the most part crosmans are an average shooter at best sans the occasional star out of the bunch.
I have been lucky to have come across three that shoot quite well and all but one have been under 100 dollar used guns.
BD
Buldawg
The Vitamin was a good shooting nitro gun for a magnum and the trigger also. But still no comparison to a standard springer like the HW50s and the Tx or LGU.
And I can say that the Hatsan 200s underlever is the best .25 caliber spring or nitro piston gun I have shot. Well after the tune of course that I did. It actually shoots groups like my Tx and LGU now. I have never had a . 25 caliber springer or nitro gun produce that kind of results. And I have to add that the 2 stage quattro trigger adjusted out real nice for a springer.
Oh and its got a side latch piston in it like that gas ram you got from that Hatsan break barrel that RDNA got from me and you ended up with the gas ram. So that means that gas ram will probably go in the the Hatsan 200s underlever. The piston doesn’t have the center rod in it.
And you know if somebody got one of the Hatsan 200s and put that Hatsan gas ram in it you would have the first gas piston underlever. I don’t think anybody has done a underlever gas piston gun. How’s that for a thought.
🙂
Gunfu1
I was not implying that the vitamin was anywhere as good as a high end springer but rather for a low end gas spring gun was one of the best we have had the pleasure to shoot and own. My three other crosman gas guns with 2 in 22 cal and one in 177 cal shoot just the same as the vitamin does with the 22 refurb I got from AGD being just slightly harsher but they all three with still keep sub 1/2 inch groups at 35 yards off a sandbag bench rested. I will say the reason they are as accurate as they are is that I replaced the cheap plastic barrel block shims they use with some Belleville washer that allow for the barrel screw to be tightened to eliminate all barrel side to side movement and maintain a constant spring tension on the barrel block between the action forks at all times which maintains perfect alignment from shot to shot. They are .047″ thick Belleville washers so it is a bit of work to get the barrel back in place in the fork but once there and the pivot screw tightened the barrel is rock solid and returns to the same place every time.
The firepower air spring project is still in the works but just pushed back in line of projects to complete. I am as well intrigued as to why no gun maker has installed a gas spring into a under lever yet as well and it sounds as though the 200s is a very good candidate for that modification since it does not latch by use of a center rod.
BD
Buldawg
You missed my point about the HW50s and the Tx and LGU.
Yes they are high end springers. But the point I was trying to make is they are not magnum guns therefore they shoot calmer than a magnum gun.
And yes the type of guns your talking about can shoot just as good as the high end guns. But a magnum springers is a magnum springer. No matter if its a high end gun or not. It will probably not shoot as nice as a lower powered gun be it a high end gun or not also.
And you noticed that most of the spring guns I have now are fixed barrel underlever guns. I know there is alot of good break barrels out there but I would rather have one less variable in a gun that could cause problems.
What I’m looking for nowdays is a spring gun that has a nice shot cycle and is accurate and has enough power to get the job done. I don’t want to work my butt off to try to shoot a gun everytime I shoot it. I want to enjoy shooting.
Gunfun1
Yea I did misinterpret what you were saying as the lowered powered guns be it high end or not are easier to shoot as well as cock and I agree a fixed barrel gun removes one less variable to have to deal with for sure.
I agree it is nicer to shoot a gun that you don’t have to workout every time you shoot it, but I also like my high powered springer’s as well and as you say they all have a purpose.
I am just a need for speed and power junkie and that is one thing that will never change and was just reinforced much more after my ride on my KZ rocket last night with my buddy Jake and his 502 CI Boss Hoss bike and while he will most definitely outrun me at top end since it will do 220 mph we did find out that from 0 to 70 to 80 it is no match for the kawi since he cannot get it to hook up and my bike is a rocket ship to 80 mph with just some light tire spin in first and second and by the time I hit third I am easily 5 bike lengths ahead with him gaining rapidly on me.
He has still not fully learned just where that fine line of maximum power without wheel spin is yet, but when he does I will have my work cut out for me with the Kawi to keep ahead of him till 80 plus mph.
Got to go and get the 25 back to shooting shape to get some base line numbers for the complete rebuild and tune up for as I said before for my need for max power at all costs.
BD
Buldawg
All in the name of liberty.
🙂
Like you GF1, I learned long ago that it’s about accuracy – not power.
I wish I could have tried that rifle before and after the work you did – would have been interesting to feel the difference.
Yes, the Legend does sound interesting, maybe they will bring it back for a second try.
Talking about power…
Some years ago my favourite bow for white-tails was a 52-pound draw Holmegaard style wooden bow I had made from a piece of Hophornbeam.
I was showing it to the owner of the local archery shop at his range when a guy shooting a high-power cam bow equipped with all the accoutrements started laughing at my bow saying that it would be useless for hunting. Annoyed me, got nothing against modern equipment… didn’t like his attitude.
After winning $20 showing him that I could out shoot him in accuracy and $20 that I could do it faster than him, I made another $20 betting him that he couldn’t draw his 80-pound bow while sitting down (as if in his tree stand). Twit.
Got a nice fat 8-point first morning out that season.
Vana2
Vana2,
Great story ! I’m sure that guy went home scratching his head in bewilderment. 🙂 Way to go !
While not gun or bow related, similar story involving the basketball playoffs. Cavs. vs ???. Not a sports fan by any means, at all, never, ever……hence the ???.
Long story short, 2 guys at work pumping up the Cavs. and “King James”. I tryed to bet both 10$ they would not take the championship. They talked “smack” and I just “baited” them. Finally, they bet 5$ each. ( not to confident ? ) Next morning I had 10$.
On for 10$ (each) next year,….gave ’em the option to “buy out” early for 5$ each. 🙂
Vana2
Like what we was talking about the other day.
What good is all that power if you can’t make it do what you want.
The rugers with reduced spring should be very nice shooters, even full power they are not really hard cocking, and the TO5 copy trigger is pretty good. Diana 34 is same, though a little more tiresome in stock form due to non-articulated cocking lever and slightly heavier barrel; with a softer spring it would be an all day shooter with a great trigger, something Diana seems reluctant to send to US. They failed badly with the schutzen due in my opinion to a direct sear trigger, which is hard to stomach on a low powered relatively high priced rifle.
Please do if you can, I’d be interested in the outcome!
I was checking to see if they had any new .22 pellets today and they now have a Ruger hollowpoints along with a new Ruger Impact .22 and some other new .22 air rifle but still no 2240. They had it priced for $139.97 so no big savings but return time would be greatly reduced, in case one were to get a lemon.
Hi Reb,
I am curious about the de-tuned Ruger as well but it will be a while before I will be able to get to checking it out in detail. Have several other rifles to shake-down before I can get to the Ruger – that and Bass season just opened 🙂
Have a good one eh!
Vana2
I was going to ask why the gun was taken off the market but the silencer-based problem would seem to be the answer. Kind of strange that Crosman could not have figured that out if it was the problem. I don’t know if I see the point of silencing airguns which are so quiet anyway. It seems like an affectation.
Speaking of discontinued airguns, whatever happened to the B30/40 series? They started with such great fanfare. The B30 came in for special praise from Charlie Da Tuna, and the B40 outshoot B.B.’s TX 200, all at bargain basement prices. And then poof. Surely, the poor quality control which had parts falling off my B30 was a driving reason. I suppose they never got around to correcting what doesn’t seem like a serious problem.
So sorry to hear about Dom’s tribulations with his Diana 38, the product of a quality maker no less. What exactly does one do with a lemon? Most airguns can be written off, but not so much firearms, partly because of the cost and partly because of the legality. You can’t just throw it in the garbage. It doesn’t seem fair to dump it onto an unsuspecting buyer.
On the subject of underperforming guns, I have attached my Leapers flashlight and laser combo to my Saiga via the side mount rail which has a side-facing rail. Man, this is cool! I believe I have now equipped my AK up to AR standards. I have a scope, red dot, flash light and laser. All that’s missing is a red dot magnifier that swings out of the way. I really cannot imagine what else I would need. Night vision is out of my budget, but I could probably use a head-mounted device if I had to. The question now is what the heck do I do with my gear? I suppose the answer is to liven up my dry-firing drills with it and also practice some of the close-quarters battle techniques I am reading about. Still everything hinges on the accuracy of the rifle which did not impress the first time around. A reckoning is coming soon, and my confidence is riding high. All the problems seem to have resulted from sighting and mounting issues. And Mike has already previewed the future with his excellent results from his Arsenal rifle…
Matt61
Matt61
Matt61
Crosman still uses that type of barrel and silencer on various break barrel guns.
And that clipping problem is a concern that needs to be kept in mind for shrouded guns. It could happen on a Marauder as well as a Tallon SS and so many other guns out there.
I shot the Arsenal AK with a new scope last week. I picked up a Firefield wt.a green laser on sale. It’s clear with good edge resolution. But, it does have some curvature of field. The Leapers scopes have a better lens. My hand load was still the best shooting just under 2 inches @ 100 yards. Not quite as good as last time but still great for an AK. I just bought some new ammo called “Red Army Standard”. It’s steel cased but has good lead jacketed HP bullets. On line reports were good on this ammo so I’ll give it a try. While I pick up my cases, I can’t reload these so nothing lost if I don’t find a few. Shooting a Cowboy Action match tomorrow………always a great time!
Mike
Good luck at the match!
This one is too good not to post. I got off work at 8 tonight. I’m almost home and I get a frantic call from daughter who is next door feeding the neighbors’ animals. She wants me to bring a gun and shoot the two big chicken snakes that she found in the barn.
I told here I would grab a shotgun and be right there. She said no that they were inside the barn and I would not be able to use the shotgun. She said to bring an air rifle.
My suggestion was for her to grab a shovel or hoe and whack them a few times. She said that they were too high for her too reach.
I grabbed my 2400 and headed over. There were two very large chicken snakes laying together on the Joyces. My daughter put the first pellet through the head of one. Both snakes fell and the second got away. The one that she got was a little over six feet.
Before anyone says anything about horrible it was that we killed that poor snake, the neighbors have lost half of their chicks. Considering the bulge in the center of the snake, I know where some of the chicks went.
Jim
Jim
First off good shooting on your daughters part.
And you know how that will go with people’s responses to killing the snake. But if you ever have lived on a farm you would know why that snake died.
When your raising farm animals for a living it matters when something happens to the animals. Plus there are people that say they won’t kill something they will just go buy it in the store. Well its got to come from somewhere. And somewhere is the farmer.
My brother has chickens right now and other farm animals. The best I can say it does become a challenge to keep them safe.
Everything has a balance and there’s a time for everything.
When I lived in Lindale(E-Texas) the Hawks were the worst.
Reb
We even saw red sqerrials getting in the pen and getting the babby chicks.
And the coyotes were getting brave and comming in by the goats.
The first thing is to try to make the pens and fences secure but I have still seen coons chew through the chicken wire. If wild animals are hungry they will do what they have to get food. Actually kind of surprising what they will do especially if their food supply is drying up.
It seems like most wild animals like eggs(guess they don’t fight back much)
⊙
Reb
This is true.
My dad had Purple Martin houses out on the farm when I was a kid. The houses were pretty high up on poles. The sqerrials would climb the poles and try to get in the houses but the holes were to small.
The only thing is the eggs can’t fight back but the birds sure will. I have seen Blue Jays flying down and attacking sqerrials before.
In another couple months they’ll be going at it over pecans again around here, I’ve noticed a few nutlets falling prematurely. I think they got too much rain too early this year so I’m sure the harvest will suffer substantially, which will intensify their hostilities.
And keep a 12g handy!
Reb
If I used a shot gun I would probably hit every chicken in the pen let alone the coop.
A airgun is by far the best tool to pin point a shot to kill the preditor.
You know it don’t have to be big to be a preditor don’t you.
The shotgun is for incoming Hawks & late night coyotes.
Reb and all:
We were gone for the weekend and I just had the chance to check the blog. I grew up on a farm in central Louisiana. Feral dogs were generally the worst predator and, by far, the most dangerous. My mother was attacked in our garage by one. We had a pack get in our geese and kill more than a hundred one night.
Jim
Reb
No hawk shooting for me and the coyotes get to taste the .17hmr.
Gunfun1
Yea with the .17HMR you can hit them before they even get close to the coops and they will never know what hit them. You just need a good on/off light on the gun with the trigger pad or a cheap night vision scope so you can see them without them seeing you.
BD
Buldawg
Don’t need no lights. These coyotes were comming around in the daytime. That’s what I was saying they where getting brave.
Gunfun1
That’s not only brave but I believe they were very hungry to be seen in daylight as that is very rare for a coyote unless they are hungry .
Just would make it even that much easier to reach out ad tap them without them even knowing what hit them.
Got to get new slide diaphragms for the carbs on my KZ as I had one develop a small hole in it on the way home last night as it would not run at a steady throttle opening without stumbling or stuttering but if you went to WOT it would take off on all four like a banshee and would only happen in 4th and 5th as the slides are moving up to fast in the lower three gears that they go right past the vacuum signal point before the leak can affect their operation. luckily they are only 20 bucks apiece and since they are almost 30 years old its going to get all four new ones.
the carbs are 36 mm flatslide mikunis off a 1988 Suzuki 750 Katana so they are not the stock 26 mm KZ carbs.
BD
Gunfun1
Going to get baseline for the 25 now so will give you some numbers in a bit.
BD
Buldawg
Yep nothing like them old mikuni carbs. I wonder if they still make them nowdays.
And yes I’m sure them coyotes were hungry. And you could hear the pups out in the woods yiping. So they were probably trying to get a quick easy meal for them. And I have seen a coyote two different times in the daytime at the new house were at now.
So you got the .25 turned all the way up now. Hopefully it will make the 70 fpe down where your at. You didn’t put that 12 pound hammer spring in yet right? You just maxed out all the adjustments from where I had them set at I guess.
But interested to see if you can get it back above 950 fps with the 31.02 grn Barracudas. I would like to know if the humidity and sea level your at compared to where I’m at makes a difference. And I wonder if the bigger the diameter and weight of a pellet makes more difference than a smaller lighter weight pellet with different atmosphere conditions like we were talking about before.
Anyway yes like to know what you get with the gun maxed out verses were it was set at when you got it. And also after you get the mods done also of course.
Gunfun1
I think most everything is fuel injected by now but there may still be some Mikunis out there on new bikes.
We have a den of coyotes about 400 yards from my backyard that live on the creek bank and you can hear them yelping and whining at time here as well and I have only seen one in the daytime out in the fields behind the house.
I have the same hammer spring you had in it turned up to 6.5 turns in and the air screw at 5 turns out and zero hammer stroke for maximum travel of the hammer as here are the results with a 3000 psi fill before each shot string and then will give the refill pressures with chrony numbers.
H&N Barracudas 31,02 grains.
Low = 799.1
High = 834.6
Avg = 822.1
ES = 35.54
SD = 11.44
FPE = 47.99
End fill pressure 2000 psi.
This was the first string at 14 shots but I had shot one blank shot just to see what the noise level was so shot another string with same pellet at 3000 psi fill
Low = 800./8
High = 832.5
Avg = 820.5
ES = 31.78
SD = 10,29
FPE = 47.75
This string was 16 shots above 800 fps so thats two full magazines.
Beeman 31.02 grain Kodiak match at 3000 psi fill and same gun settings
low = 798.1
high = 831.9
Avg = 820.1
ES = 33.84
SD = 9.43
FPE = 47.68
End fill was 2000 psi and another 16 shot string at just barely below 800 fps.
The last pellet tested was Benjamin discovery 27.8 grain at 3000 psi start fill and the same gun settings.
Low = 800.4
High = 863.1
Avg = 839.2
ES = 62.68
SD = 18.65
FPE 46.00
End fill was 1900 psi and a 18 shot string soi am happy for a stock gun with just a 10 # hammer spring.
The next string will be with 12.5 # hammer spring, o ring hammer buffers, reworked valve with enlarged inlet throat and gen 1 valve body sleeve removed and reshaped poppet head with narrowed stem, .160″ valve to barrel transfer port holes, and if that does not get me to the mid 900 fps then it will be .1875″ valve and barrel port with ice maker tubing for transfer port tube which will be a 3/16 inch flow from outlet of valve to barrel which should definitely get into the mid to upper 900 fps and hopefully at least a 10 shot string above 900 fps which is my goal with this gun .
BD
Buldawg
So have you shot any groups the way I had it adjusted. Verses the way you have it adjusted now?
Gunfun1
No have not shot any groups other than out at the tree limb at fifty yard away at 4o feet in the air and that was in the tune you had in it so going to let it cool down some more and shot at that limb some more as it was holding about a 1 inch group on the limb as it was received from you so I will see if it still groups as good which 1 inch is not bad for just using the first shot scar on the limb to aim at with subsequent shots and no real actual sight in with a target but just remounting the scope and shooting .
BD
Buldawg
Ok let me know how it groups with it turned up.
Remember when we was talking about the 900 fps working good for the JSB 10.34’s with the .177 Mrod you got and the one I had. I think that’s when I started messing with the velocity on the .25 Mrod. I believe I slowed it down and the Barracudas started grouping better. I got thinking about why I slowed it down and I’m pretty sure that’s when I did the .25 Mrod.
But let me know if it still seems to be grouping good for you with it turned up now.
Gunfun1
Yea that makes sense and I will be shooting it in a couple hours when it cool down some more to see as it may not group well at that power level so we will find out.
I was just out shooting the 48 for a few minutes till I started to sweat and came back in but it likes the CP 10.5s out of the box very well and I have not chronyed it since the last tune but it I believe is spitting them out at close to 900 fps or above as they take no time to hit that tree limb at 50 yards and smack it with a good thwack.i think I may use it at the next FT match as it is putting the CPs one on top of the other at 35 yards with ease.
BD
Buldawg
That is what’s nice about pcp guns that you can adjust the power level on. Just try a different velocity with a pellet you use and see if it helps make it group better or not.
Now if we can just get the manufacturers to make some kind of power adjuster for spring or nitro guns. Then it could possibly make them easier to get dailed in.
Gunfun1
If they did that on spring guns them we would get bored just having to shoot all the time and not have the fun of tuning to suit our personal preferences.
To me half the fun is making it shoot how I want it to despite who says it cannot be done.
BD
Buldawg
We would still have to tune the spring gun to make the shot cycle smooth. But we would have the added benefit to make the power match the pellet you choose.
It would be a advantage if that was posable.
Heck look what your doing to the Mrods you have right now. Your still modding them even though you can adjust the velocity. Right?
Gunfun1
Yea it would be actually easy to put a power adjuster to decrease or increase the spring tension just like the Mrods have for the hammer spring and if it was a gas spring then have a foster fitting at the rear or side of the action to add or remove pressure in the gas spring to tune for power and that would in turn allow for adjusting the shot cycle to some extent as well.
I just put the scope back, on the 25 and it is hitting about 3 inches high out at 50 yards and at my 20 yard target was about 2 inches high but still grouping inside a 1/2 inch at 20 yards just destroying the 2x4s on my 20 yard target as its going clean thru them. I could not tell exactly how high at 50 yards as all I could see is leaves and branches above the tree limb dropping to the ground above the limb as I shot at the limb.
It definitely has the power to stretch its legs to 100 yards I just want to get it completely modded to mount a scope and do the final sight in as I can always turn it down if need be to get the accuracy back but I am hoping the 33.95 grain JSBs will be accurate out to 100 yards without turning the power I get out of it down to do so. time will tell as I will be tearing in to it this week as I will have all the parts by Wednesday to complete my power mods.
BD
Buldawg
That’s what it should do is hit higher with the more power.
And yes they will tear stuff up when you turn them up.
So let me know how it all goes then.
Gunfun1
Yea I know that and it appeared to be hitting the same place out at 50 yards as well so I just hope I can leave it turned up.
I will let you know how it all comes out.
BD
Buldawg
Ok. And you notice where running thin on the thread. No reply buttons.
It’s not as bad as it use to be with the old system. But it still gets thin.
Gunfun1
just noticed the no reply button so lets just stay on texts.
BD
Buldawg
Ok
That’s a shame! I was looking forward to eavesdropping on that test & tune session.
Reb
Do you have txting yet on your phone? You got Buldawgs and my phone number don’t you.
Yeah I can text and I believe the #s I have for y’all are current ones.
I’d like to get a good idea of how much adjustability is built into one of those.
Reb
You should have my right phone number. We talked a while back when you got the hipac for your 2400.
Reb
Oh wait. You need to get a hold of Buldawg. He’s testing it now.