by B.B. Pelletier
Drum roll, please. Today, we’ll look at the velocity and power of the RWS Diana 460 Magnum. I know this is a big deal for a lot of people, but I have to say that after seeing how accurate it is, I don’t really care what the power turns out to be. Oh, and by the way, I’m testing a .177. I should have told you that in the first installment.
First up – Beeman Kodiaks
The Beeman Kodiak 10.6-grain pellet was the most accurate in the test rifle. Not only that, but it left all the others in the dust. I didn’t test each and every pellet for velocity – just a few important ones. Kodiaks average 822 f.p.s., with a spread from 817 to 826. That works out to a muzzle energy of 15.91 foot-pounds.
Next – Gamo Raptors
Ah! The dreaded Gamo Raptor PBA pellet! RWS advertises a top velocity of 1350 f.p.s., and to get that, most testers would choose this pellet. I got an average of 1145, with a spread from 1136 to 1155. All Raptors went supersonic, of course. The muzzle energy for this 5-grain pellet is 14.56 foot-pounds. I HAD to test the Raptor because everyone expected it, but I wouldn’t recommend shooting it in this rifle. The velocity is too high for best accuracy.
Finally – Crosman Premier 7.9-grain
The Crosman Premier 7.9-grain pellet is the “standard candle” of the airgunning world, to borrow a term from astronomers. It’s the pellet that everyone uses, so it’s the most likely to be in everyone’s cabinet. In this rifle, they averaged 945 f.p.s. with a spread from 940 to 946. Energy is 15.67 foot-pounds.
This performance is lower than expected based on the advertised velocities. I contacted Umarex USA and asked if this was correct for a 460 Magnum. They said it sounded low and said they’d get back to me, but that was several weeks ago and I’ve heard nothing. I spoke with a friend who owns a 460 Magnum and has taken scrupulous records of his velocities with various pellets. He actually owned two 460s, but the first one developed problems that caused it to be returned.
Where I get 822 f.p.s. with Kodiaks, he gets 881 with his current 460. To my 1145 f.p.s with Raptors, his first 460 posted 1225 (he hasn’t tested the current one, but the current gun is about a foot-pound more powerful than the first, so the Raptor velocity should be higher). Where my Premier 7.9-grain pellets go 945 f.p.s., his current gun averages 1050. Clearly, his rifle is more powerful than mine. His current gun was supposedly hand-selected by Umarex USA (according to what my friend said) after he returned the first 460, so I have to believe he is getting the performance the rifle is able to achieve. He is getting about three foot-pounds more energy than my test rifle, which I believe represents what a 460 should achieve.
Independent test from Pyramyd Air
I also contacted one of the technical reps at Pyramyd Air and asked him to test a new 460 Magnum for me. His results were Kodiaks averaging 905 f.p.s. with a string from 897 f.p.s. to 911. Raptors averaged 1285 f.p.s., with a range from 1269 to 1326. Two shots were clearly violent detonations at 1750 f.p.s. and 1849 f.p.s. Gamo’s Hunter Extreme has been trumped by these two final velocities, however they were detonations, just like Gamo uses to get 1600 f.p.s. This was a brand-new rifle right out of the box, and I would expect those velocities to settle back to around the level my friend has recorded.
If my conjecture is correct, the 460 Magnum has a bit more power than the 48/52/54 sidelever in .177. Perhaps in .22 it may develop even more power. If any of you have a .177 460, I’d appreciate hearing what kind of velocity you get with any of these three pellets.
The RWS Diana 460 Magnum is an exciting new spring-piston air rifle that has a lot going for it. Good looks, accuracy and reasonable power are all there. If you’re looking for a record-breaker, this isn’t it. If you want a fine air rifle, put this one on your list.
144 thoughts on “RWS Diana 460 Magnum – Part 3”
I think the velocities advetrised by Pyramidair are too high for the 460 Magnum. I checked the german site ate :
they are advetrising 1150fps for .177, and 720fps for .22. In comparison, the 350 MAgnum gets 1250fps in .17 and 860 fps in .22
Thank you for a great report. Hopefully you can do one on the 22.cal in the future. Have you ever thought of doing your reviews on video?
yes, I’m also curious about the velocities and power of the .22cal. to me this would be an excellent hunting rifle if figures hold true. the unreliable marketed figures have kept me from purchasing this rifle so far. If you are only getting 822fps in .177, I would probably be the one unlucky bloke that would get a .22 version that only shot 600fps.
wow. your 10.2gr kodiak velocities in .177cal don’t even meet the rated 950fps .22cal figures (which I am guessing were done with an 11gr pellet). so the .22cal figures must be grossly overstated. velocity overstatement is the one dark shadow I hate about this hobby. i mean i really loathe it. i really don’t see why this doesn’t fall under proof in advertising, and why pyramid supports and aids this concern.
yeah, and even if you do get the advertised velocities with the light-weight pellets, they may not be accurate. in .22 caliber you may have to use a 14gr/16gr pellet to actually be accurate enough to shoot, which will definitely drop your velocity. i think they should have to display velocity ratings based on average weight pellets, but this concern has been voiced over and over and over again….oh well.
Yes, I have thought of video, but my plate is full. Tom Gaylord is Pyramyd’s video man.
Glad you liked the report.
so why do all other web sites advertise .22 at 1150 fps?
Can u compare the RWS 460 with the RWS 46?
I am willing to pay for the 460 if it is a much better gun. But is it?
I know is more powerfull, is it also a lot more noisy? And is it more accurate?
The Diana 46 is a middle-range rifle of about 13-14 foot pounds. It is very accurate and has a flip-up transfer port to make loading possible.
The 460 is a powerhouse of 17-19 foot-pounds and just as accurate. It has a sliding compression chamber for loading. It is not a lot noisier, but it is noisier. No spring rifle is really noisy, compared to PCPs.
These two rifles are about as similar as a Chevy Impala and an F-150 pickup truck.
To decide which one you want, don’t try to compare the rifles. Think about what you want to DO with an air rifle and the right rifle will present itself to you.
Thank you. You were very helpfull.
Based on what im reading, i would say RWS has marketed this rifle almost entirely on lies. They claim it is their most powerful rifle and rated for 1350 fps. and 950 fps. this is none of these things. the 350 magnum produces 5 foot pounds more than the 460 and greater velocity! lies all lies
now that im done ranting, B.B., do you know what kind of accuracy i could expect to get out of a webly tomahawk? and does the tomahawk have provisions for a scopestop, if not how do you secure a scope in place?
The Tomahawk has no provision for a scope stop. What people do is double up on the scope rings and rely on clamping pressure, alone.
i have scoured the net and had no luck in finding any kind of loudness scale for firearms. So….
I assume there are 2 things that could make a rifle louder:
1. The ME of the cartridge
2. The velocity of the bullet
for example, a 22/250 is a very fast bullet, where as a 9mm is much slower but has a higher ME due to huge weight. So, as i am looking to keep the noise down, should i look for a lower ME, or a lower velocity calibre?
hmm… just clamping pressure? does that really work in a gun that produces 21 foot pounds. I would think scope would move under recoil.
Well, BB – it looks like I’m gonna get a chance to check out pyramyd’s return policy.
The .22 CFX I just received seems to have had its breach locktited shut at the factory – and I’ve got the fragments of hardened locktite to prove it! It was so hard to open I needed a mallet and a piece of wood. It finally freed up (while spitting out pieces of the stuff) but the velocity now seems low – rear seal damage, maybe?
I do hope they’ll take care of it – but frankly, I’m quite disappointed with Gamo’s QC.
Forgive me if this was answered earlier, been ill and can’t find the post. How would you or anybody rate Nikko Sterling 3-9X42 Gold scopes, and will they take the recoil of an R1? THANKS
Off topic, but on an overall basis, what powerplant would be the better choice for hunting/plinking with as little support as possible? I remember you recommended a Blue Streak for a survival gun ( or a 392 because of the greater ammunition availability ), but would a multi-pump have any advantage over a spring piston? I’m excluding precharged Pneumatics and CO2 for their required extras (pumps, cylinders, etc). I know Ben 392’s hold up over time, but how do spring pistons do? JP
I was just amazed to see that those two velocities were 1750 and 1849 due to detonation. My question is could you try and control that detonation so that you could make more muzzle energy with slower, heavier pellets? In other terms could you push like a 20 grain pellet (.177) at 900 fps.
Trying to extrapolate the noise level of any gun with the muzzle energy and velocity figures is not going to work at all, as there are just too many variable at work.
1) Is the airgun a spring piston, pump pneumatic, CO2, single pump pneumatic, or PCP?
2) Is it a rifle or handgun, and what is the barrel length?
3) If it is a spring piston powerplant, how much spring and piston noise is created when it is shot?
4) Is there any noise dampening in the receiver at all, or does the airgun have some kind of suppressor?
5) Is there a muzzle break with ports?
6) What type of pellet are you using, and did it go supersonic?
Oh, you are mistaken about the 9mm having higher muzzle energy than the .22-250, as a STIFF loaded 9mm has not even 350fpe at the muzzle, whereas the .22-250 generates 1,500fpe minimum.
Also, the .22-250 burns considerably more powder and is moving out something like 3,600fps vs. the 9mm 1,250fps max, and, to my ears at least, is considerably louder than the 9mm, even though handguns generally are loud.
In short, the ONLY way to properly determine noise levels is to get a sound meter that locks in peak report of a given airgun.
Trust me, you do NOT want detonation at all.
Detonation can destroy a piston, seals, spring, and the compression chamber.
In extreme cases, it can actually seriously injure the shooter.
It appears that all magnum power spring piston airguns diesel in controlled ways, but detonation in such a real monster as the RWS 460, the Gamo Extreme Hunter, or the Webley Patriot might even be fatal if it were intense enough.
thanks for your detailed reply, i think i may have complecated the issue by not giving enough info.
I am only refering to rifles, not handguns, and only to firearms not airguns. Also, im assuming all rifles are approx the same lenght, and that they dont have a silencer fitted. They way, they all start out equal. The reason for my question, is that i want to buy a nice rifle, but not .22LR (i have these already) but as my shooting range is indoors, i am trying to avoid a cannon that can be painful even through ear muffs. For example, a .300 Win fired in our club sounds like the world is about to end….so i want to avoid anything as loud.
Loudfness vs velocity,
Scott gave a good answer, to which I will embellish.
Loudness is chiefly a characteristic of disturbed air. The .22/250 disturbs more air than the 9mm because its power charge is larger.
An airgun that doesn’t disturb much air will be quieter than one that does – same for a firearm. The job of a silencer is to use the energy of expanding gasses so when they exit to the air they do not disturb it as much.
So if you want to be quieter, disturb less air.
I agree that clamping pressure alone should not be able to stop movement on a 21 foot-pound gun, but there are several owners who have posted comments that it does.
BB and Scott
thanks, so, disturbing air is the key. I would assume the speed of the projectile is the key factor in air disturbance given that all calibres (therefore weights) are inherently aerodynamic?
So would a ROUGH guidline be to look for a slower, rather than faster calibre?
I hope the rifle was cocked when you tried to open the breech, because it will not open unless cocked. I say that because others have tried to open the breech first and been stymied. The piston rests against the back of the breech.
The crumbly stuff you found sounds like seal material to me. There is no purpose for Locktite in this location (that I know of).
Nikko Stirling scopes are not common here in the U.S. I have never tested them, so I really cannot give first-hand advice, but a lot of Brits think they are great.
Ask your dealer before you buy. If it’s used, get a return guarantee.
A spring gun needs the least support of all. It is historically the weakest powerplant, and the simplest.
When I say weak, there are examples generating 30 foot-pounds, but pneumatics can generate hundreds and so can certain gas guns. Springers don’t do that, but they are more reliable in the long haul because of their simplicity.
That said, get a weaker one that doesn’t stress the system. An R1 should outlast a Gamo Extreme Hunter and an HW50S should last longest between overhauls.
Controlled detonation has been tried and abandoned as a bad idea. The Weihrauch HW54EL Barakuda was a .22-caliver ether-injected springer that attempted to make 1,000 f.p.s. in the 1950s.
Read about it here:
Detonation will eventually blow an airgun apart. The place for controlled detonations is inside the chambers of firearms.
I did remove your message.
Lower rifle noise,
(Please give yourself a handle, as tracking these responses is too difficult).
I wrote the piece about disturbing the air. So to reduce a rifle’s report, I load it down. But all centerfires are still so noisy that I have to wear hearing protection. So the drill only helps in the field, as in when hunting.
Very good review BB, and I look forward to the .22 460 review. One thing I have to comment on though is all this talk about velocity in the comments on these Diana guns. Why don’t people just chose a gun based on it’s features and how those features affect their personal use of the gun? For instance, all the .22 cal airguns that Diana makes are all launch a 15 gr pellet within 50 to 150 fps (600 to 750fps) depending on the model. What is really important is how they handle, and whether you like fixed barrel, target quality, recoiless,break barrel loading convience,fixed barrel accuracy, side cockers, underlever, ect.. All of them are different in many ways that are way more important than their velocity. The game won’t care dead is dead, and I have killed squirrels and rabbits graveyard dead with accurate .177 cal guns at 650fps and .22 cal guns at 550 fps at reasonable ranges. It just drives me crazy when all the airgun reveiws and the resulting comments are dominated by the velocity issue. factor.
I agree with you. But many car manufacturers still use NASCAR to promote their tired rides, because a large segment of the population is swayed by that approach.
BB, yes – the rifle was cocked! After several cycles, the breach loosened up enough that I can operate it by hand – but the velocity is certainly on the low side.
The flakes are not seal material. They are smooth, hard, and plasticky – I’m virtually certain that it’s hardened locktite. I KNOW it’s not supposed to be in there… but, nonetheless, there it is!
Im guessing it was a late Friday afternoon gun or one assembled by a seriously disgruntled worker.
The folks at Gamo who assembled the gun are people who should not be assembling gun. The craftmanship is very sloppy. Gamo! if you are reading this, you better work on your quality issues! I don’t think Gamon have change their ways since I got mine two years ago. Gamo, do you want to be Yugo of the Air Gun industry?
there is nothing wrong with also focusing on velocity issues, that helps a gunner also determine what he will use the gun for. maybe a person wants to shoot at more than squirrels. i would have no problems shooting a squirrel with a .22cal gun that shoots 550fps, but I would not use that on anything larger. if Diana could hold true to their marketed figures, and produce near 950fps with their .22cal 460, I may consider using that for larger game instead of having to pull out my Career precharged rifle. now do you think you understand the important of speed sometimes? also, if a gun like the 460 only reaches the speeds of the 46, then why market the 460 (under lies) and charge $100-$150 more.
Then you have to return it.
also, no one is questioning the functionality (accuracy, features, etc.) of diana guns. that has already been proven. people also equate speed with range, and sometimes speed increases accuracy over a range due to less pellet drop over a longer distance. sure the pellet drop is that same, but the velocity pushes the pellet out farther over the same time interval. all of this is assuming we are staying subsonic.
I understand the importance of speed to insure hits at longer range and the influence it has on trajectory. What I don’t care for, is this obsession with velocity and how it dominates discussion and advertisement of the merits of the various makes spring piston guns. You should use your Career on animals bigger than say two or three pounds body weight. As Robert Ruark would say ” use enough gun”.
so you don’t believe in the merits of advertising….very interesting,…put a different way “proof in advertising”.
so I guess you also don’t believe that if their advertised velocities were accurate and true,…then the gun WOULD BE “enough gun”….also very interesting.
Factor, I have to agree with anonymous who is responding to your post. You have good points, velocity shouldn’t be the sole focus of a gun. (I personally think that velocity advertizments should be replaced with foot pound advertizments because foot pounds is far less missleading, especially to first time airgunners.) You mention that the features of a gun should be the selling point but the velocity or more apropriatly, foot pounds, are an extremely important feature, and determines more than anything else what you will use the gun for. you wouldn’t dream of using an IZH 61 for hunting but it certaintly is more accurate and innovative than a gamo 220, foot pounds matter! Velocity is especially prevelant in regards to the RWS 460, but that is because RWS marketed the gun solely on claims of velocity, and LIED. Again, i agree with you that companies like RWS should not focus all their marketing on velocity. It is a shame that the 460, what appears to be a great gun, has been tainted by the false claims made by RWS of breaking velocity records. Does it seem unusual that so much velocity talk is going on when RWS, not some cheap chinese company, made such a blatantly false statement? Factor, i understand where you are coming from, but particularly in this situation the velocity talk is justified.
Just a thought about those pellets.
You might want to carfully examine the skirts of those pellets, as perhaps they got mangled a bit in shipping.
One tin of JSB Exacts I got shipped got badly mangled because the idiots at USPS apparently decided to use the box they came in as a kickball, and quite a few were badly mangled, as Exacts are pure lead with very thin and fragile skirts.
I have two Gamo CFXs, and I got my little girl a refurb Gamo Delta, but I think we all know that one company above all others is the main culprit here when it comes to ridiculously inflating *cough 1650fps* velocity figures.
Sadly, it may well be that this bad influence has carried over to the higher end makers with better reputations.
I don’t expect the velocity figures to be perfectly as advertised, but it wouldn’t be unreasonable for an equivalent pellet weight, and NOT that pathetic excuse for a pellet known as the Raptor, to produce within 100fps of the advertised value.
Volkswagon couldn’t get away with advertising their Jetta as going 50mpg, then have it turn out to do 40mpg at best.
I suppose we could have more government regulation to strongarm the airgun manufacturers to be more truthful, but then I despise government having its thumb on us as much as it does already, and I am adamant in doing what I can to stop further encroachment.
So, there you go.
i think what you said is true, and you raised an interesting point, maybe companies like gamo, with their grossly exagerated claims are beginning to pressure “better” companies, eg. RWS, to inflate their velocity claims in order to remain competetive. I hope this is not the case but it does make sense.
how does the 460 in.22 compare to the Mendoza rm 2800? for hunting
I appreciate your advice, but I always examine the pellets for external imperfections before I shoot. Especially the skirts, and especially when I’m focusing on getting the best groups or taking small game. The only thing I don’t do is weigh them, and divide them into weight groups.
The ones I do encounter that have external imperfections I put in a separate tin, that I only use for informal plinking.
Since we don’t live in a perfect world, we have to assume the possibility of one bad tin can happen. I’m getting about 50% reliability with this tin with normally formed pellets. The groups aren’t heinous, they are just not as predictable as before, therefore, I don’t feel confortable taking game with them.
I am still sold on H&N pellets though. As far as I am concerned they are my absolute favorite for most of my guns and will chose them everytime, so with the amount of tins I have purchased over time, I can live with this batch. JSB’s and certain Beemans come in after that. My RWS rifles like JSB’s mostly.
Thanks for your thoughts anyway.
Take it easy.
p.s.- Part of the point I was making with that post about the H&N pellets, is that sometimes when accuracy suddenly falters, from a reliable gun:
– its not the shooter
– its not the barrel
– its not the scope/sight
– its not the gun
– it can be something as simple as an unpredictable tin of pellets
Troubleshooting is key, but when it all comes together, its a beautiful thing.
I contacted my local diana dealer and he told me that the factory stoped the production of the RWS 46 cause it was disfuctional. Today i tested the RWS 75 T01. Can the 46 or the 460 be as accurate as the 75? I dont know if what i am asking is stupid. I am trying to buy a gun for target shooting but I want it for multi reasons. A friend of mine is selling his old 75 and I dont know if it is worth it. Its heavy and not that strong but in my opinion very accurate.
Pls tell me your opinion.
Diana 460/Mendoza 2800,
This is another of those, “Which gun should I buy?” questions, isn’t it?
Get the Diana.
The Diana 75 T01 is an obsolete target rifle. It was designed at a time when it was thought that 650 f.p.s. was ideal for 10-meter, so that’s approximately the velocity of the rifle in perfect condition.
However, be aware that the 75 has a fatal flaw. The original piston seal will decompose, rendering the rifle useless until it is resealed. That is a costly proposition, because the Giss pistons have to be timed exactly or the gun will tear itself apart.
The Diana 46 IS NOT disfunctional! That’s the utterance of someone who doesn’t have one to sell. It is a fine design.
As for accuracy, you are comparing a Corvette (the 46) to a bumper car (the 75). The 75 is accurate at 10 yards. The 46 is accurate at 40.
About the rws 46 the dealer told me that the loading mechanism was the problem. Sometimes when fired the transfer port is poping up.
I have shot loads of pellet rounds through my 46, and never encountered the loading/transfer port popping up. It is by far one of the easiest to use, safest, reliable, etc., spring gun designs I have seen, and a complete joy. Just my opinion, but I would never understand why anyone wouldn’t have a 46 in their collection.
Its the only “hunting” spring gun I know of, that you can pre-load, without having to cock the gun. If I have already preloaded, I normaly pop the loading port open to allow airflow when I do decide to cock it. I don’t know if this is necessary, but only adds two seconds to the cocking process.
The shooter just has to be aware of feeling or hearing the “click” when the loading port is closed. Just like anything involving shooting sports, you have to pay attention to what you are doing.
The only advice I got from RWS was that the loading port seals wear out way down the road, and this is to be expected with normal use. All I did was order some extra seals to have around when this happens years from now.
B.B.–Scott298–after going over your velocity reports it would seem that the 350 mag has a higher velocity rating than the 460. I am obtaining these from what i appear to be another reputable internet seller who sticks to only quality guns and does an extensive write up on them. I won’t mention their name on this forum but I believe you know who they are, is it possible that the 350 will out shine the 460 in the power dept–thanks Scott298
You can read my report on the 350 Magnum here:
Thanxs for the info. You dont think much about the 75 T01 I think but we did shoot a sparrow today from 20 distance meters without a scope. But I dont know much about airguns so if the 46 is that good I will try to find it from another dealer or the internet. Thnx again.
B.B.–Scott298-I’m a little confused. In the the report on the 350 in feb 06 you were using .22cal. The report on the 460 mag you are using .177cal. The charts show the 350 in .177 has a higher velocity than the 450. At times I can be pretty thick but I’m missing your point on this one-would you explain further-thanks Scott298–and by the way thanks for answering the pick on the the 460 and the air arm tx-however which cal.?
I didn’t say I don’t like the 75. It’s just NOT a HUNTING airgun. Yes it will kill sparrows, but a rabbit at 40 yards? Probably not.
If you are willing to shop on the internet, why are you limiting yourself to RWS Diana guns, only? The Air Arms TX 200 is a wonderful air rifle, and the BAM B40 is nearly as nice for a lot less money. There is a whole world of airguns out here. Not that the 46 isn’t a nice gun, too.
You said you wanted a review on the 350 Magnum and that was mine. To find approximate .177 velocity, subtract 20 percent of the energy and convert to a .177 pellet.
sometimes i think BB has the patience of a saint…
The market in my country (Cyprus) for airguns is limited. 2 Diana shops and a Weihrauch as far as I know. And to order something on line has its risks so Im trying to find something from the local market. My last option is the internet.
Thnx for all the help, I hope Im not a pain.. But maybe I will ask you some more questions.
mixalis, this is just my opinion, but bb mentioned to you that the RWS75 was an “obsolete” target rifle, plus he told you about the potential problem of the original piston seal decomposing. you ever think that dealer is trying to “unload” that gun on you? just a thought.
secondly, you mention “target rifle” which gets people immediately thinking about .177 caliber. are you planning to use this for hunting also? shooting and killing a sparrow at 20 meters without a scope should not be your litmus test for accuracy or killing power. plenty of basic/inexpensive Crosman/Daisy airguns can do that, and will save you money. if by “target rifle” you are meaning “field target” you are going to need unforgiving accuracy out to 50/55 yards as well as short yardage.
ask yourself, what are you “really” planning to use this airfun for. maybe you need two, one for target shooting (.177cal) and one for “true” hunting (.22cal or greater).
thirdly, if you are going to another dealer to find a RWS46 in .177 caliber, then I can understand that because PA only carries the .22cal. but I would never buy a gun from somewhere other that PA that PA carried because of their great reputation and pricing (find yourself a 10% coupon code). i made the mistake of buying elsewhere once, and i’ll never do it again.
to echo bb, the tx200 and bam b40 are great .177 caliber rifles, but decide based on how deep your pockets are. nothing worse than spending money, and having regrets on the purchase.
oh…saw your post above, now I understand why you will purchase locally.
Now I appreciate your situation. You did mention Weihrauch, though. What models are available?
Ask all the questions you want.
Thanx again for all the help.
In the other Diana store, I found in net, they seem to have the 46 compact and the 300 R. None has the 46. What do u think about those 2? They also have Anschutz but I know know much about them. And there is the store with the Weihrauch, that I have a little problem to pronounce, they have the HW100 T NEW Model 2004, the HW-100 S NEW Model 2005, the HW97K, the HW 98, the HW77, HW 50S and HW 50S.
Now you are talking! I really like the HW 50S for a new shooter. It has enough power for some small game hunting, plus it is accurate and easy to cock. It also has a delightful trigger. Just make sure it doesn’t have the German freimark (an F inside a pentagram) on the side. If it does, it’s only a 7.5 joule power rifle – pretty weak.
Some of the others you mentioned are nice guns too, but I vote for the HW50S for you.
If that store is convenient for you, I would look seriously at that rifle. It’s about the same price or a little less than the 46, and quite a bit less than a new Diana 75 T01.
B.B.–Scott298–I went thru some of my old e-mails and had one from umarex-I had to send my 350 back for warrenty problems, and asked them prior to it’s return they run it thru a crono. They didn’t specify the weight of the .177’s they used but they reported that using 10 shot groups the results were as follows-rws hobby high of 1201fps -low 1191 and rws superpoints high of 1094fps low 1084 fps–looks like in the velocity game the 350 inches out the 460-I,m not making any claims on accuracy but in velocity it would appear the 350 beats out the 460 mag-at least in .177 cal–enjoy your weekend-Im going shooting if the wind lets up–Scott298
B.B.–Scott298–I know you have a ton of things to report on but I wonder if it would be useful-especially to the new shooters-to do a blog and go thru – as a minimum – what a shooter should have as a shooting kit–stuff he would need in the field, at the range and at home–once again Scott298
i have to agree with all this velocity talk, if all things were just based on velocity we would shoot cenrtfires. how wonderful a r1 fires. in my opinion who would want less recoil it makes the gun harder to shoot and thats the fun of it. if you are a velocity junky buy a crosman 2240-50-60 or whatever and mod them. you will get alot more energy from these guns easily 20 fpe. with the right parts. i have a little diana mod 20 in .177 that only shoots under 500fps i would not change a thing on that rifle it is a jewel to shoot even with its not so great trigger and twangy spring.
Everybody keeps referring to the RWS website and saying look at this, they said bla bla bla. Well I went to the website and it does say the velocity of the 460 in 22. cal is 720. However if you go to the Tech Spec page on the same site and their manual it says 780 fps in 22.ca. but note the *asterisk that clearly say’s “Velocity is controlled to meet the regulations of certain countries.”
Another thing I don’t understand is why people keep referring to all the dealers as inflating the speeds. Come on, they clearly say “UP TO”. It seems easy to understand that they are talking about the fastest pellet in the most perfect conditions and I do believe they achieved that result. straight shooters does a great review on velocities and is quoted as saying the 460 in 22.cal is rated at 691-875 fps and the muzzle energy at 20.2-23.0 lbs.
I think people should look at the big picture with comparing reviews. Read all reviews and then get a good general picture of the rifle and specs.
Thanks you do a great job.
To get the weight for any of those pellets just look on Pyramyd Air’s website. They have the weight for almost all pellets given with the pellet’s specifications.
RWS Hobby 7.0 grains
RWS Superpoint 8.2 grains
Thanks for suggesting Monday’s post. I was stumped with the failure of the Chuntsman.
Is the Diana 460 the closest we can get to the “tx200 accuracy” and “super magnum power” BOTH in one rifle? (at present time)
Just for the recond – because I know you want airgunners to see the reality- I stopped thinking about power and accuracy lately, I just get my CFX and plink or hit paper targets all day from 4 different positions. NOW I understand airgunning!
Thanks a lot
I wondered that too (is the 460 a super-magnum TX200). It may be. Time will tell, as owners start reporting about their guns.
Good for you getting out with your CF-X. Shooting is what this hobby is all about.
I have read that Beeman Kodiak pellet and H&N Baracuda are the same .In this case what is different between this https://www.pyramydair.com/product/beeman-kodiak-extra-heavy-22-cal-21-14-grains-round-nose-200ct?p=301
Baracuda are more expensive .Are they better?
Expensive doesn’t mean better. In this case it just means the pellets with Beeman’s name on them have been run through another organization that needs money.
Check these out:
They are the best buy of all!
Thanks for the quick answer ,
What kind triger has RWS 460 ,plastic or metal.I have read somwhere that some RWS Diana are whit plastic triggers .And is there any other plastic parts on it . Mostly I want to know that for Diana 460 (.22) caliber.
Whenever you read about the Diana T05 trigger, the trigger blade is plastic.
The end cap and safety are also plastic, as is the fake muzzle brake/front sight and the triggerguard.
I wrote the HW 50S twice. I wanted to say HW 50. What about that one. It is only about 20 dollars more expensive than the HW 50S and it is underlever cocking rifle.
What do you say?
Sorry I made a mistake, i ment the HW 57. What do u think about it?
I don’t have any experience with the HW57, but it is a Weihrauch rifle, and that usually means a good gun. In fact, I can’t think of a bad one!
Here I go with the old “what gun should I get” again… I’ve been looking at 3 that are in my price range.. the RWS 460 (I like the power but don’t like the sights being on it). The Weihrauch HW 97K (I really like the looks of this gun) and the TX200 MKIII (everything I read about this gun sounds great but it is $100 more than the HW)I live in an area where it just isn’t possible to look at and feel these gund. So I am trying to pick one via reading and pictures. Any help would be wonderfull. Oh, and I am looking at it in .22 cal. I would use the gun for pest shooting as in birds, rabbits and even an occasional crow. But also just for fun target shooting. I like accurate guns.
You should also put the RWS Diana 54 on your list. It is recoilless and nearly as smooth as the TX, if not as quiet.
All three guns are accurate, but the TX edges the other two.
If you decide to get the TX, never having seen one before, I know you will be impressed. In fact, I predict that you won’t be able to keep quiet about it. The 97 is a very nice rifle with a great trigger. The RWS Diana 460 is a step down from the 97 in terms of qualitry, but more powerful.
I vote for the TX. If you get it, you’ll probably never get rid of it.
That pretty much echos what I have read else where. It (TX 200) is a bit more expensive, but sounds like it is worth it.
You said no question was stupid… so here goes. What is the scope mount dimension for the TX200? As in the dove tail size. I can’t seem to find it any where.
The TX200 has an 11mm dovetail and three vertical stop pin holes. It accepts all standard 11mm scope mounts. The top of the receiver is rounded, which puts some people off, though it shouldn’t, because it presents no problem.
Part of the reason I think that I like the looks of the HW 97 better. But I read that the reason for the bigger rounder reciever on the TX200 is they have a direct air flow instead of an angled hole. Supposedly that gives more and smoother power.
And thanks for the dovetail size. I would think that should be part of the specs where the gun is listed for sale so one can get the right scope mount.
I finally got the HW57. Im not experienced with airguns but I like it. It doesnt kick and it is light. Its a bit noisy though. Now Im trying to adjust the scope. In many reviews say that the loading port is a minus but Im ok with it. Does anyone know which pellets to use? Im from Cyprus so I dont have much of a choice, just the ones they gave me from the Weihrauch store(H&N pellets)and the Diana pellets.
Try the H&N pellets first.
Some months ago I asked you which do you think are the best when it comes to long range accuracy. We agreed that the Diana 54 and the Tx200 is the way to go. What do you think today – is the 460 another option? (excluding the whiscombe rifles due to price)
Also what do you think about PCP and long range accuracy? Condor? (and the USFT?)
Thanks a lot
BTW Mixalis I live in Cyprus too. The best pellets I found here were the H&N Field Target Trophys.
Foir long-range accuracy I rank them:
Diana 460 Magnum
PCPs are better at long range and the Condor is a good one. There are other good rifle besides the Condor, but not at that low price.
The USFT is also good at long range, but it doesn’t have the power the Condor does, so after 60 meters or so, it falls away. The Condor is still good at 100 yards.
Thanks for the info B.B.
It’s as I suspected it would be.
I guess having a springer to plink with and a PCP to seriously shoot and hunt with is not a bad idea after all…
Hi! i`m from Russia. Sorry for my english. I`ve got 1.77 Diana460. From the box it has about 22 joule energy ( 260 meeters per sec or 850fps (to get fps you shold *3.3) (i used to metrical system) whith 10.5gr crossman premier bullet. But when the spring died i can`t find new one, so i installed a spring from gamo extr hunter also known in Russia as hunter 1250. This spring is longer, so i have to cut it. Original spring has 40 coils and i cut 31. After install speed encreased to 300mps (about 30 joule) after some shooting energy is about 28 joule. Accurasy is the same, speed better. i`m happy whith this riffle.
Did you grind the end of the spring flat where you cut? That helps the spring move as it wants to, when the gun fires.
Hey B.B. do I need an adjustable mount for the rws 460 for barrel droop, or is there not any. If there is any, do you think shimming the scope would work?
460 scope mount,
The 460 has considerable barrel droop, so you either need an adjustable mount or you have to do some serious shimming.
Just bought my model 460. I must say that simple math says @ 70 degrees F. 1128 fps and faster makes a supersonic bang every time. This rifle does not even come close to its claimed 1350fps in .177 not even the 1128fps. I feel cheated. If I wanted it to go slower I’d use a heavier pellet but it needs to live up to its claim 1st. Mine is going back to the store.
Your velocity results are very similar to mine. I think this is the true velocity of the 460 Magnum.
I’m buying my 460 this week and i would like your advise on putting a Leapers 4-16×50 AO Scope, Illuminated Red/Green Mil-Dot Reticle, Zero Lock/Reset.
I Still don’t know which mount to get, pls give me some options you think would work, maybe on single piece, and also on see thru.
I saw the 460combo has included a 4×32 scope (don’t know which model) and also includes a scope mount, but since the included scope is a 32mm, I think the 50mm scope won’t fit, pls let me know.
You can only use a one-piece mount on the 460 because of how the base on the rifle is mad. And of course you must hang the scope stop pin in front of the scope base on the rifle.
It looks like a 50mm scope has plenty of clearance with the mount they selected. But they mounted the scope incorrectly. If you left it that way, the large screw in the rear of the rifle’s scope base will shear off.
Got my 460 with accushot 1 piece scopemount and leapers 4-16×50. I got it installed by PA. As what you told me, the rear screw at the back of the scope base on the rifle is clear, and the mount in the front side its placed like 1/2″ from the end side of the base. and also there is a screw (vertical pin) that is facing the most front part of the scope base.
I would like to send a picture to explain better. Pls tell me where to send it.
I would like to know if it has been well installed, and if the vertical pin of the mount will not shear off.
Also if you can tell me how big can the shims be, to raise the scope on the back ring, because I am pretty close to the knob margin and I want to have more clicks for different distance setup.
By the way, What is the large screw in the rear of the scope base for?? lubricating maybe?
The scope stop pin has never sheared off. That has never been a problem with RWS Diana guns. The problem is the big screw in back of the scope base will shear off if it’s used as a scope stop. If your scope base doesn’t touch the big screw you have no problem.
Use a shim with a 0.060 thickness under the rear of the scope mount. Make some kind of reference mark on the gun and on the scope mount so you can determine whether the mount is moving.
I just picked up the 460 magnum locally after first buying a Gamo Hunter extreme only to first find out that the scope mount was destroying itself and the top of the gun, which come to find out seems like it happens to alot of guns. Thanks to these blogs I made sure to remount the scope on my RWS properly before it gouged out that one too… But then the silver rod that locks the barrel in place with the wedge shaped thing (not sure what you would call it) snapped in half on me so I ended up taking it back and exhanging it for the 460. So far I have been happy with the RWS, I have a model 34 thats at least 10 years old but I just wanted something a bit more sophisticated and more powerful. I really, really. liked the look and feel of the gamo. Looks like some kind of cannon! although the trigger was awful.
I got the RWS in .177 because thats all they had it in, Could have got the 350 mag in .22 but wanted something other than the break barrel for a change. Which may have been a partial mistake after reading how .22 is pretty much always better. My impression of the 460mag is that its made very nicely. I really hate the front sight that I cant take off because it makes the gun look a bit like a toy, And gets in the way of the scope. The safety has a pretty cheesy feel to it. Not even as nice as my model 34. Loved the gamo trigger.
Will we see a formal test of the Hunter extreme? Im curious how they compare power wise. With some very crude testing by shooting into big catalogs and counting how many pages I penetrated It seems the Hunter exteme ever so slightly edged out the 460. Although shooting into metal or quarters it seems the RWS does more damage. I can shoot through pennies or break them in half at about 15 yards. Didnt try any further out as I ended up breaking the scope that came on the gun. The RWS really does have it beat in the stock department. Its a much nicer stock, Although the checkering on the gamo was nearly as perfect as you could ask for.
The 460 definetly has the Gamo beat out in accuracy but then again that could do with the different scopes and my lack of experience with shooting techniques.
The RWS certainly is alot smoother operating. And quieter. I actually like the loudness of the Gamo since it makes it seem more powerful.
I actually did a test of the Gamo Hunter Extreme already. Look here:
Thanks BB, I didnt think there was a review of it as its not linked from the hunter extreme page on pyramid’s site as most are. My mistake!
From that it seems to me your impressions are with a few modifications it would be a great gun, But that RWS 460 is already a great gun without any modifications needed.
I think the Gamo Hunter Extreme is the nicest-looking rifle they make. The 50 pounds cocking effort puts me off, but the accuracy is acceptable and it can take a GRT III trigger blade.
On the other hand, the RWS Diana is already what it needs to be.
I am trying to make an educated choice between the RWS Diana Magnum 460 (22cal.), RWS Diana 350 Magnum (22cal.) and the RWS Diana 54 Air King (22cal.) combo’s with scopes. I’ve read all the reviews on them that I can get my hands on including the video review of the 460 by Paul Capello.
What I would like to know is “in your opinion” which one is more accurate at distances (Please rate them 1,2,3) and which one is the least picky of how you hold/brace it for shooting? Also, which one carries more downrange energy for small game hunting? This is of course using a mid weight pellet like the Crossman Premiers or whatever you would recommend.
I’ve also read up on the Air Arms TX200 MK III (22cal.) and everyone swears by it but I wonder if it has enough energy to realistically be used as a hunting rifle for any significant distance. I think it’s only a 12 ft. lb. gun??
Please help with any information or opinions on the above listed questions. It would greatly be appreciated.
I would pick the RWS Diana 54 of all these rifles. It is by far the most accurate and smoothest to shoot.
I wasn’t aware that the .22 TXD 200s were 12 foot-pounds. I thought they were more like 16. But the 54 is smoother and more accurate at distance, so that’s still my choice.
Before I start just wanted to say thanks so much for your help.
I’m looking for max. accuracy coupled with sufficient energy for both target shooting and hunting all in a quality European Side lever / Under lever gun under or around $600.00. **I’m well aware you can’t always have your cake and eat it too but what I am asking is which rifle you think would best fit my needs. Also, if you’re aware of a different rifle that would better fit my needs please advise.
I pulled the 12 ft. lb. straight off the Air Arms website but unfortunately I was reading it under the “STD” power category and not the “FAC” power. It reads 17.5 (.22) in that category although I don’t know what “FAC” means. Please shed some light on this if possible. By the way, the TX200 MK3 is a gorgeous work of art by Air Arms.
I’ve read where the Model 54 is a great bench shooter (per your review: Wow!) but the anti-recoil system loses its effectiveness when you shoot up: say for a squirrel or bird. Does this affect its accuracy at these angles or just the recoil?
At some point I’m sure the Diana 54 will lose its anti-recoil capability when shooting up or down, but I was never able to find that point in limited testing. Besides, are you willing to miss a fine air rifle on the basis of a few shots you might never make?
The 54 is even smoother than the TX 200, and it is certainly more powerful. It is also incredibly accurate. And I love the TX 200.
Either gun will be a delight.
Looks like I’m getting off the (460) topic a bit. I hope it’s ok to continue this blog here. If not please advise…
Anyway, I see your point. If it is indeed smoother than the Air Arms TX200 and on par in accuracy then I’m sold. The RWS Diana Model 54 it is!
**Now that we’ve got past my indecisiveness on a rifle can you recommend a good scope for around or under $100 to go with the B-Square Mounts you suggested? There are of course lots of scopes out there and on Pyramid Air and I have no idea where to start.
**Also, what is your opinion on Air Rifle Tuners? Do you think the 54 could benefit from a good Tune by Charliedatuna or The Air Gun Tune Meister? Do you have a preference?
Again, thanks for your time and help. It has helped me tremendously.
Neither the TX 200 nor the RWS Diana 54 need to be tuned. They come ready to go.
This looks like the best scope for the money:
It has a one-inch tube, so get one-inch rings.
That one does look the part! I’ve since read the torture test and review of the “TS” Scopes by Tom Gaylord. Good stuff!
Anyhoo, thanks so much for your help in my selection. You’ve saved me much headache. This airgun hobby of mine is becoming an addiction…
BTW, Will any of you guys be attending the Air Gun Expo in Benton AR. May 2-3? I’m not sure if this is a big show or just a local event. It sounds fun anyway and is within driving distance.
I plan to have a table there.
Great! I hope to see you there…
Here I’m going to test your motto of “There Are No Stupid Questions”:
**What all should I expect to see there? Any European Brands like Air Arms, Webley & Scott or Weihrauch? It would be nice to see these brands first hand. I’ve been to gun shows in the past but never to a “air gun show”.
Also, would it be more cost effective to wait to buy the 54 there instead of ordering??
At Little Rock there are next to no new dealers.
Mostly it’s collectors, airgunsmiths and people who make their living (or hobby) from airguns.
Like Doug Law, who brings lots of old airgun literature.
That said, there will be some new guns.
But not a wide spread. And you can never tell what there will be before you go.
Read my report from last year’s show:
So you can wait and hope if you like. I did buy a 54 at Roanoke the year before last, but
Roanoke is 2.5 times the size of Little Rock. More dealers means more chances to find what
you are looking for.
I’ve got an e-mail in to Alice at Pyramid Air asking if there is any way to “substitute in” the scope and mounts you mentioned instead of the one’s that come in their combo (Paying the diff. of course). If not then I’ll have to buy it all separately. The scope that comes with the combo doesn’t look too bad but the Leapers you suggested looks better with everything I’ve read about it since.
Whether or not I purchase now via Pyramid or at the show I’m sure I’ll see something there that I’ll be willing to morgage the house and risk divorce over…Just don’t tell my wife!
Thanks for your endless patience and I hope to see you there. BTW, I ask many more stupid questions in person!
Are you certain the Leapers 4-16×50 AO scope you recommended won’t hang forward too far and block the Loading Port on the 54? I’m ready to order and just wanted to make sure…
Read today’s post and mount it high.
Perhaps a dumb question but do under_lever or side lever air rifles have the same kick as break barrel spring guns? I’m looking for a rifle that’s perhaps a little easier to shoot accurate then my current rifle.
Underlever and sidelever rifles have the same kick as breakbarrels, but they usually are not as sensitive to hold. The TX 200 and Gamo CF-X are two that are very forgiving.
Say it isn't me. I'm shooting 5 shot groups from crushed Walnut shell filled shooting bags (thanks for that tip – they cost less than 1/3 of the plastic beads) at a range of 30 yards. I have a "R" RWS 460 in .177 that used to shoot H&N Baracuda Heavy Match pellets (Kodiaks selected for same weight if I have the name wrong) at 900fps very accurately, but its spring died and the new spring with the polished and lubed parts (per your tune article, thanks again)shoots them about 885fps and puts them within about 1.5" circle. I tried CP Lites and they go about 1050 and high left from the H&N's, BUT most of them are touching. Those groups are within a 3/4" circle. That 3/4" circle thing is about what I do with an RWS 46 .177 and maybe a little better than that with a TX200 (but it has a 32x scope and the others have 12x). Anyhow, I use the Artillary grip you describe (I lay it on my left hand and try to lock my cheek in the same position and be careful my glasses and the AO wheel on the scope aren't moving between shots). I hold the butt firm against my shoulder as I found better results with that approach. I take a breath and squeeze the trigger slowly while attempting to hold on a bullseye the size of a pellet hole. I discount knowing flinches like the gun didn't fire when I espected it, so I sorta jerked it…, but the good holds still are much further apart than they used to be. Yes, bolts are tight. I only put a drop of blue locktite on the screw now as I was buggering the heads when I tool the stock off. I'm in the woods and shooting in low or no wind conditions. I don't know if I should tell you that I do better than the tx200 with the Talon as you will see a pattern – the less it kicks, the better I shoot. What do you think? Clean the barrel or practice more? (Clean the barrel AND practice more!)
Shoot more is the short answer. Your rifle has probably changed its vibration characteristics and no longer likes the hold you use. Try holding it firmly, like a deer rifle. Try laying it directly on the bag.
The best balance point is usually just in front of the triggerguard.
Try different pellets. And yes, your barrel does have to be cleaned if you shot CP lites at 1050. They lead the bore badly.
I’m thinking of purchasing the RWS model 460 magnum or 350 magnum. The 460 is advertised from 1200-1350 fps and the model 350 magnum is said to shoot 1250 fps. I was told to be careful of the false advertisements because the speeds on the box are 100-250 fps faster than self testing.Could you tell me if the 460 is more fast and accurate than the 350?
You DO NOT want speed in an air rifle! Speed kills accuracy, so you want the rifle to shoot 900 f.p.s. or less.
When I tested the 460 Magnum in both calibers, neither one lived up to the advertised velocity. But the rifle was very accurate.
You can read about the .22 460 here:
… and the .177 460 here:
I sent you the link to the last part of a multi-part series. The links to the earlier parts are at the beginning of the report. You had already found the .177 report, but I wasn’t sure you knew about the others.
The 350 Magnum report is here:
The 350 Magnum is a breakbarrel, which is the most difficult kind of air rifle to shoot accurately. You have to hold it in a special way to get it to shoot right. The 460 Magnum is more forgiving.
In my experience, the 350 Magnum is a little more powerful than the 460 Magnum, but once again, you don’t want high velocity.
Get the .22 caliber version of either gun, because the .177 shoots too fast for accuracy. Both rifles are difficult to cock because of powerful mainsprings. The 460 will be a little easier than the 350.
You posted your question to an old report. Our current report can always be found here:
If you ask a question there, thousands of readers will see it and you will be flooded with answers. Please come and join us there.
BB must have pasted the same link twice accidently. The current report is here:
hi … im about to buy an air rifle and im wondering if magnum 460 worth its price or its just the same gun as gamo cfx-royal ??? the same question about diana mod52 … any advise would be appereciated … tnx
I have purchase a Diana RWS 460 Magnum recently but the pivot of cocking lever witch is mounted under the cylinder broke after almost 200 shots.
This pivot material is too brittle and I decided to make it with the better steel material and replace it.
I searched the internet to find the assembly manual of RWS 460 but nothing found.
The major problem is that I do not know the mounting mechanism of this part whether it is screwed to the cylinder or its a pushing part.
Your kind help to solve my problem would be appreciated.
You might try contacting Umarex USA. They are the U.S. importer of all RWS Diana rifles.
Thanks for your comment.
If I find disassembly manual for RWS 460, then I would solve the problem by myself.
I hope to receive more helpful comments from you and other friends on this site to disassemble the gun.
B.B. writes a daily blog, Mon-Fri. Post your question there and you'll reach alot of folks.
Perhaps one of them has had your problem and solved it.
Here's a link to the exploded parts diagram for your rws 460:
Found this on the umarexusa.com site. Go to customer service tab, then go to parts exploded view tab.
Hey, BB, so after sifting through all the RWS/Air Arms info, I've come to one conclusion: I have no clue. As far as a .22, would you recommend the 350 Magnum or the 460? Seems like the non-breaking barrell on the 460 would hold a distinct accuracy advantage. BTW, I plan to use it for squirrells mainly, but would like the option of shooting other critters too. And, BTW, excuse the ignorance, but what the heck is barrell sag? And how could a fixed barrell 460 exhibit that at all? Thanks
PS have you guys seen the new RWS 470th? Pretty impressive!!
…..correction, "barrell droop", sorry.
Breakbarrels are just as accurate as fixed barrels. They simply require more technique to shoot better.
I still vote for the 350 Magnum.
We have a new video coming out in a day or so that explains barrel droop very well. Go here and watch episode 20:
Thanks, BB, I appreciate your patience with us newbies. I'm assuming you're favoring the 350 .22 cal. w/Crossman Premiers. Any thoughts on the 470th? Seems the blogs concurr on Leapers' scopes for these rifles, can you please point me towards one (and the appropriate mount) that works best for the 350 (and won't shear off the rear screw)? And what the heck is the deal with Umarex…do they or RWS make these guns, and who do I send it back to if it's a lemon?
BTW, Behrooz, that the new 470 has a metal muzzle lock…and a metal trigger. Maybe RWS is really listening to their customers, then again, it seems like the same 'ol scope rail. I wish these things weren't so pricey…makes picking the right model a nightmare.
First, the 470TH is a thumbhole, and I don't care for that design at all. Second, the rifle is still quite a ways in the future, according to what I read. So I wouldn't start pining for it now.
I will test it when it comes out and we'll see how good it is.
I really dislike a thumbhole stock, so it had better be a good performer!
Ok, did a little homework; are you still recommending the Leapers model #395AOMDL scope and the mount found at https://www.pyramydair.com/product/leapers-accushot-1-pc-mount-w-30mm-rings-high-11mm-dovetail?a=827?
BTW, thanks for your take on the 470.
Actually, BB, there's another site that's already selling the 470 th for a little over $600. Not sure if it's taboo for me to mention who it is, but if you want to check them out, I'd be happy to reveal who it is. For the record, I just bought a 350 Magnum with Leaper scope from pyramid air today; can't wait to use it. Thanks for all your helpful comments and all your work.
And one more thing (sorry). Is there anything I need to buy with this RWS gun, such as cleaning pellets, lube or a cleaning kit?
Cleaning pellets? Don't use them in spring guns ever! They cannot stop the piston and allow dry-fires.
Cleaning kit? It's always wise to own a one-piece rod in the calibers you own. But you don't clean airgun barrels unless accuracy falls off. Then you use a brass brush and JB Non-Embedding Bore Cleaning Compound. Only the patches in the kit will be used, and that after using the JB Paste.
Lube? Not on an RWS Diana airgun. Diana uses a blue piston seal material that is self-lubricating and needs next to nothing. The manual will suggest a drop of chamber lube after 3,000 shots, but it's seldom needed even then.
Ok, that sounds easy enough. BB, I just talked to UMarex and they claim their newer guns (2 most recent years) have better scope rails which have "fixed" the problem of screws breaking and mounts coming dislodged. Not sure if that's true, but just an fyi. The rep I spoke to didn't seem too excited about the 470 either, claiming it's "just a fancy 460". For a $150 plus price increase, it ain't that fance.