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Education / Training Webley Junior – Part 1

Webley Junior – Part 1

by B.B. Pelletier

Announcement: Just a reminder that Airgun Arena is holding a shooting contest. There are rifle and pistol categories. Rifle categories are: spring, sporter (PCP/CO2) and target. Pistols categories are: sporter, custom and target. The contest started on April 15 and ends on May 15, 2010. Pyramyd AIR is supplying prizes, and there’s still time to enter.

Update on Tom/B.B.: I visited with Tom for 3 hours Thursday afternoon. He said he felt fantastic and was quite animated! He’s improving day by day. I’ll be spending quite a bit of time with him this weekend.

Today’s blog comes from Airgun Revue #6, which was published in 2000.


The Webley Junior was a solidly built English pistol…and I wish I owned this one.

I like Webley pistols, make no mistake about it! Although I haven’t owned all models and variations, there have been a number of Seniors, Mark IIs and Premiers in my possession over the years. Except for the Junior. I’m not a real collector, but the solid feel of the gun keeps me coming back for more.

For some reason, the Junior has eluded my grasp. Like the Diana 35, the Junior is an air pistol I’ve admired from afar, never quite being able to reconcile the cost of a smoothbore when so many accurate rifled models are around. The Junior has its grips held on by a single screw. Its end cap (at the muzzle end of the gun) has but a single cross-screw instead of separate cross-screw and spreader screw. The cocking link has a single pivot instead of two, and the trigger has only 2 pins where the big guns have 3 to 5. In other words, it’s the cheap member of the Webley family, and cheap is not why I got into airgunning. I’m here for the blued steel, the fine wood and the perceptible substance of quality-crafted airguns. With all its cost-cutting features, the Junior just doesn’t sound like any of those things. But it is.

In 1999, I received an email request out of the blue from collector Eric Hall. He asked for information about a Webley Junior. To answer the query, I consulted my library copy of Hiller’s third edition of Air Pistols book that has been read so much that the pages were starting to fall out. An answer was created in the form of 20 questions about the gun. After a day, the response came back, and I learned that the Eric had a fairly valuable Webley Junior, or at least a Junior as valuable as it can get.

Eric and I emailed back and forth for another week when I asked him to send me his gun so I could write about it. He didn’t hesitate. Before you know it, I had this great-looking Junior in my hands.

The gun is the second iteration of the pre-WWII Junior to come from Webley. The first one had wooden grips with tighter ribbing than the ones on our sample gun, plus the rear sight was adjustable on many examples. Ours has the ribbed (for strength) steel grips that pretty much define the pre-war Junior. They’re blued but are also the first metal part to rust and turn plum-colored, which these are doing. A single screw on the right grip passes through the frame and grabs a threaded escutcheon on the left grip.

The grip frame is straighter than those on post-war Juniors. It looks quite similar to the frame of the so-called straight grip Senior, a Webley that was also in its initial design iteration the same time as this one.

Actually, the grips of later Juniors never did become as slanted as those of later Seniors, but the bottom of the lower grip frame did become wider and more rounded after the war, which gave the visual impression of a greater rake. The early gun has a more rectangular grip frame by comparison.


As slick as can be, the back of the Junior exhibits none of the features found on the fancier models. The rear sight is fixed; but since the gun is a smoothbore, the sights are really for general reference and not for precision shooting. There’s no access into the compression chamber from this end of the gun.

The frame is blued steel also, but on this gun the color is actually reddish brown. I understand that happens when the bluing salts are too hot. You see it on custom Mauser rifles from time to time. The frame is fashioned into two steel loops that encircle the steel spring tube/compression reservoir. The loop in the back is enclosed at the end, leaving no access hole at the front of the compression chamber, as is found on the Seniors. Hence, there isn’t a Not to be removed warning around a screw slot that’s always buggered by some anonymous airgunner’s clumsy attempts to learn why. The back of the Junior is as clean as the deck of an aircraft carrier–from the bottom of the grip frame to the top of the sights.

A spring-loaded thumb latch holds the barrel closed and tight against the breech gasket. It’s not as convenient for right-handers as the lever found on the left side of the larger pistols, and I’m sure the lefties feel a sense of revenge.

Cocking isn’t easier than a Senior, even though the Junior has a weaker mainspring. That’s probably because the cocking linkage is less articulated, which reduces the overall mechanical advantage.


The Junior cocks like all other Webley pistols–by pulling the barrel up and forward to compress the mainspring. The linkage is simpler than most of the larger pistols, which makes the cocking effort just about as hard.

As with all vintage Webley pistols, the Junior is a barrel-cocker. After releasing the rear (breech) of the barrel, you lift it up and forward while the cocking link pulls the piston straight back, compressing the mainspring as it goes. But back and front are reversed on a Webley. Back, when referring to the piston, means toward the muzzle of the gun, while forward means toward the shooter. Webley uses a compact folded cocking mechanism that employes the barrel as a handle to cock the gun. It’s one of the defining features of the brand and was even used on two models of rifles–the Mark I and the Mark II Service.

Although the Junior is known as the runt of the Webley litter, it’s not a weakling! Even though everything on the gun is smaller, the Junior holds its own in the power department. I’ve seen published velocities in the 250-300 fps range, but our test gun, which had been left cocked for more than a week when I got it, was much stronger.

The piston seal is a no-tech plug of leather on the end of the steel piston. It should be kept oiled with a good grade of gun oil, which will not diesel because the compression is too low. If you ever have to replace the seal and can’t find one from the factory, it should be easy enough to make one from sections of an old leather belt. They would have to be stacked because the seal is quite thick.

The mainspring nests inside the hollow piston, which fits tightly enough to guide it well. Gun oil on the coils is good here, too. One surprising aspect was the round wire section of the spring. All the bigger Webleys use flat-section wire to get more coils into a short space. The round section will last longer, but it won’t have quite the power potential of the flat-section wire.

The mainspring is under a fair amount of pretension, too. About 2 full inches are compressed when the end cap is tightened.

The end cap, which is on the front of the gun, has a hollow spring guide attached to it. You can oil it when the gun is disassembled or just let the slung-off oil from the mainspring do the job over time, which is what I did.

Next time, we’ll look at velocity and accuracy.

143 thoughts on “Webley Junior – Part 1”

  1. Daily Blog Index for April 2010

    1. A rare Quackenbush toy pistol surfaces! (Airgun Revue #6)
    2. Crosman's Town & Country (Airgun Revue #2)
    5. Daisy's 693 CO2 BB pistol (Airgun Letter 3/00)
    6. The Shinsung Career 707 9mm Ultra – Part 1 (Airgun Letter 10/01)
    7. The Shinsung Career 707 9mm Ultra – Part 2
    8. Daisy 888 Medalist 10-meter rifle
    9. The day of the round ball
    12. Stoeger X5 air rifle
    13. Stoeger X50 air rifle
    14. .25 caliber Benjamin pellet – Part 1
    15. "Flag City Toys that Shoot" airgun show (Derrick)
    16. Benjamin Marauder, .25 caliber – Part 1
    19. Drop coin into slot: The Challenger–an airgun that paid off the Depression! (Airgun Revue #2)
    20. Finding the good stuff (Edith)
    21. B-Square Professional Gunsmith Screwdriver Set
    22. My survival gun
    23. New products and more
    26. BRV – Part 1 (Edith)
    27. BRV – Part 2 (Edith)
    28. Give 'em something to do (2001 Airgun Letter)
    29. When Savage made a folded-metal gun
    30. Webley Junior – Part 1 (Airgun Revue #6)

  2. Good morning Edith and Tom,

    None of us have asked, but how far away is the hospitol from your house. Hope it's not too long a drive.

    Slinging Lead,

    Thanks for the index,

    Mr B.

  3. Edith and BB,
    Brilliant to hear BB is feeling better.

    As a lad in the 70/80s our local sports shop used to sell the Webley Typhoon and Tempest air pistols.
    A modern version of the Junior/senior by the look of it.
    beyond that of a lad with Champagne ideas and Ginger beer pockets I can tell you:)

  4. Help,

    I have a question about regulators. I have found a very reasonable source of HP nitrogen, but I need a regulator for the tank. I will be using it with my Discovery at 1800 PSI and with my AirForce Talon SS at 2800 PSI.

    Do I need a separate reg for each gun or do they make them where I can set the output pressure I want? I checked PA and it seems that the ones they sell are for a tank pressure of 3000 PSI, but the nitrogen is at 4OOO PSI. Who sells them?

    Thanks for your help!

    Mr B.

  5. Kevin,

    quick question on Marauders. Buying used may be attractive to me depending on asking prices but exactly what has been going wrong with them? Anything in particular that they are now getting a reputation for?

    I know I'm being lazy not doing my own research on the Yellow or other Crosman dedicated websites.

    Fred PRoNJ

  6. Edith,

    I think the tanks you're talking about are the ones under the AirForce product listings and are the ones that screw into the gun. Actually nitrogen is a good gas to buy and use since it's dry and won't introduce moisture into the gun.

    I've got a real deal on buying a nitrogen filled tank and getting it refilled, but need the reg to make it work.

    Mr B.

    PS Glad it's not much of a trip to the hospitol.

  7. Kevin,
    Continued from last night.
    My Remington 700 was the Classic rather than the BDL. As a teen with my sister at the Pontiac dealership I preferred the Trans AM that deleted the screaming eagle, and even better yet the subtle Formula with the same motor.

    I probably admire a fine stock as much as anyone, I just view them as works of art too pretty to actually use. Even at my peak when I was sending airguns off to the spa for a tune I never really considered a fancy substitute stock for the original.

    I think that is also part of the reason for my attraction to the older HW’s. Solid build with nice bluing and simple functional stocks. Perhaps this is just some sort on mental block on my part? Replacements for the R7 are selling for $398 and look gorgeous. I do stare at the picture quite often. Who knows, I may break through one day.

  8. Hey everybody. Glad to hear Tom is feeling better. I've got another question for dad's rifle. I've bought one and need to sight it. I'm wondering if a scope or a red dot sight would be easier for him to use. He's 75, his eyesight is not too bad, but he does wear trifocals if that helps any. If a red dot is easier to use, is there a specific type I'm looking for that's appropriate for a high powered springer?


  9. Ordinary air is roughly 80% nitrogen and 20% oxygen (percentages rounded; there's really a couple of % argon). I don't see why you can't just put dry nitrogen into an "air" bottle since the corrosive gas, the one that gives trouble, oxygen would be absent. Getting dry N2 is important since you want to keep water out of your gun.

    Now I'm a physicist, not a chemist or an airgun engineer, so I could be missing something. Also, the threads on an HP nitrogen tank may not be the same as on an "air" tank, so a special adapter might be needed. Using different threads for different gases is a standard part of safety considerations.


  10. Fused,
    I don't have really poor eyesight but I do need glasses. I liked the idea of red dot sights but they don't magnify and I need that magnification to be able to see the target clearly. However, I have read that mignifier red-dots may be on the market sometime. I've not seen any.

    Also, I find it very difficult to use my progressive (no line) bifocals because of the distortion they produce. I have to take them off and use the focus of the scope to compensate for my eye sight, which works very well, by the way. Yes, I wear regular non-corrective safety glasses then.

    I would think your dad would have the same problem with trifocals. If you have an adjustable focus scope around you might let him try it to see if he can use it ok with his glasses on and try it without his glasses on to see if that's better.

    I know there are other glasses wearers on this blog that might have other solutions for you, too.


  11. Volvo,
    I'm with you on stocks. I actually like the relatively simple stocks on the Weirauch rifles better than the more ornate ones. My dream rifle is the HW77 more so than the TX 200 because I like the simple looks of it. But then again, I think the 392 is actually an attractive rifle. Just goes to show, you can't account for taste!

  12. FRED

    I don't have Kevin's depth of knowledge, but I do own a Marauder in .22.

    I read much about the Marauder accuracy issues prior to and after my purchase this past December. Most issues are easily addressed.

    1. Shroud baffles. Early guns had baffles that were made too small for the pellet. I think it was in .22 only, but on some rifles the pellet would clip the baffle on the way out, and go tumbling. Crosman fixed this already and offers free replacement baffles to owners of the rifles affected.

    2. Dirty barrels. Crosman sometimes has filthy barrels. My Marauder barrel was fairly clean, but my Discovery's barrel was a garbage dump. Cleaning it revealed lots of rust, plenty of lead, and half of an egg-salad sandwich. JB's nebcc fixes this problem nicely.

    3. The magazines. As with any repeater, the magazine has the capacity to destroy your accuracy if the pellet isn't centered just right. The fit of different pellets in a one size magazine comes into play also. Soft skirts exacerbate the issue. I feel the Marauder magazines are good quality, and if you seat the pellets right, it will not be an issue. I need a ball-point pen for anything I do at work, so I always have one at hand, I feel naked without it. It is a perfect pellseat.

    4. Pellet affinity. My Marauder doesn't really like anything but Crosman Premiers so far (it may be the stiff skirts). It will shoot the 18.1gr JSB exacts OK, but its like eating a ribeye when it wants a porterhouse. It will not abide the 15.9gr JSBs. Everything else I have tried is worse yet. Perhaps it is a conspiracy. I have not tried the Beeman Kodiak/H&N Barracudas so far, but I plan to purchase some soon.

    I tend to think that almost any Marauder you get your paws on will be spine-tingelingly accurate, if all the above issues are addressed.

    The stock is not great. Mine has a blah finish, has two spots of wood filler and the fit of the trigger in relation to the grip is a cruel joke.

    That being said, mine is accurate, quiet, and smooth in operation. The trigger is also smooth and light, if not elegantly sculpted. Weight and balance are excellent for my proportions.

    Are you looking at .22 caliber?

  13. Slinging Lead,

    thanks for all that info. I was considering .177 as I could use this as an entry level to FT. I have the Discovery in .22 and with the trigger kit I installed from Mike, it's a great rifle. What I'm about to say next is probably sacriledge but I don't mind a good synthetic stock over a wooden stock. Wood is nice to have but not the deciding factor for me.

    I'll keep my eyes open for a "distressed" Maurauder.

    Fred PRoNJ

  14. Mr B.

    Think nothing of it, it is the least I can do. If only I could remember to get it posted first thing on the last day of the month on a more reliable basis. Plus I have to get up pretty early to beat you to the first post!

    BTW: If you can afford more than twice the price, I would go for the AAS410, over the M-Rod, even though I love mine.

  15. Fred PRoNJ,

    Slinging Lead did a very good job of outlining issues that SOME of the marauders are having. Seems that the majority of accuracy problems are in the .22 cal marauders from what I've read and seen.

    Remember, Although I've shot an untuned .22 cal marauder and a tuned .22 caliber marauder I don't own a marauder.

    Most of the time Greg Davis spends on tuning marauders is re-crowning, inletting and polishing the barrel. Here's a good read:



  16. Volvo,

    Interesting. I didn't know but should have assumed that along the way you owned a 700.

    Considering the condition that you keep your guns in you shouldn't fear a custom stock. I'm a form over function guy too which is why I prefer custom stocks that fit me better. If they look good at the same time it's a minor bonus but not the primary reason I own them.


  17. Ok,sit down folks in case of shock I am about to ask a serious question and not my usual tripe.lol

    If I inspect the inside of my Air rifle barrel and it appears to be clean is it safe to assume that it IS clean or should I be cleaning it on a regular basis as part of a routine?

  18. DaveUK,

    This may not be the right answer but it's what I do.

    The first thing I do when I receive a gun whether it's new or used is carefully clean the barrel using jb bore paste and following B.B.'s cleaning instructions to the letter (details can be found using the search box on the right).

    This eliminates one variable when I start pellet testing the gun for accuracy. Once I find the best pellet I write that down on the page in my notebook since I can't remember these things anymore.

    I never touch the inside of the barrel again unless accuracy falls off.

    I've also learned that some pellets foul a barrel quickly so I've quit using those pellets in my guns.

    One of the reasons I like airguns so much is that you don't have to and really shouldn't clean their barrels unlike firearms.


  19. Kevin,

    Why do you consider raccoons pests? Is it because they raid your garbage cans? Tight lids will solve that problem.

    I guess I just have a soft spot for raccoons– ever since I read "Rascal" by Sterling North when I was 10.


  20. AlanL,

    Raccoons can look cute and act cute, but they sure can be vicious. They've got large incisors! Plus, they can carry rabies. When Tom and I lived in Maryland, it was standard procedure to kill a raccoon on sight. We never had one (just a stupid ground hog who wanted to live in our garage :-), but they can be quite aggressive and do some serious injury to pets, children and adults.


  21. Referring to the regulator, pardon my ignorance but I would thing a welding supply house could provide and accurate relaively inexpensive regulator and adaptors necessary to install it inline on your tank.

    I have used regulators that accept up to 6000psi and can reduce it to under 100# and when using breathng air as low as 7psi to run a face mask.


  22. Donkeyscrump

    If you are happy with accuracy, then cleaning the barrel is a definite no no. I don't care if my barrel has chicken bones lodged in it, as long as it shoots to my liking.

    If the barrel looks clean, it probably is. The barrels I have cleaned, the fouling was obvious.

    If your accuracy is off, and you can clean the barrel from breech to muzzle, give it a try. Cleaning from the muzzle end can ruin the crown if you are not careful. Use Brownells JB's non embedding bore paste with a brass brush for steel barrels.

    I don't remember. What are you shooting, and what is your typical range?

    As summer approaches, my need for a good foot cozy fades into my rearview mirror. I can probably pick up a good deal when the mercury hits 90 degrees. I hear the best ones are made in England.

    Cheers Dave!

  23. AlanL,

    A raccoon sent one of my dogs to the hospital and he almost didn't make it. They're very destructive and can carry rabies and plague. I spent almost a full summer several years ago trying to get a buck coon that delighted in tearing the shingles off my roof. My trash cans are secure but that doesn't keep them from continuing to try.

    They may be cute but when I see them they're toast.


  24. Kevin,Slinging lead:
    Thank you fellas.
    Unfortunatly my rifle is the chinese side lever springer.
    Good on looks but eratic accuracy at the best of times.
    It was mainly for my dads Webley Eclipse .22 which he has just aquired.
    Astheticaly it is in poor condition, and slightly under powered I think.
    Pretty accurate though over 40/50ft with open sites.
    Best I should leave the barrel alone in that case.

  25. AlanL,

    I second many of the raccoon comments. The ones that stay away from my house I leave alone – they are good scavengers. But if they try to get into the garage or mess with the house (including being on the roof) I will try to take them out.

    One night my boys left my outer garage door up, and when I discovered it after dark there was a raccoon messing around inside. Rather than flee when I entered the garage and turned on the light, the thing turned on me (it was not cornered or anything) and tried to scare me back into the house – which I did figuring it was rabid.

    That was when I decided the "brave" ones need to go.

    Alan in MI

  26. Slinging lead:
    Yes with summer coming footmuff sales have tanked.
    However as night follows day winter will return.
    My advice.
    Panic now and avoid the rush.

  27. RE: Raccoons.

    One of the first vacations I took with my wife was camping at Hanna park in Jacksonville Florida.

    While checking in at the gate, my wife marveled at the cute little raccoons at the roadside, eating the tidbits offered by an evil, enabling park ranger. I marveled at what disgusting, disease infested creatures they were. She marveled at what an a$$hole I was.

    Later, at our campsite, meticulously set up and layed out by yours truly, the wife began to throw pre-marinated chunks of new-york strip meant for shish kababs to the disgusting, disease infested, stripe-tailed vermin.

    I launched a very impassioned discussion, debating the relative merits of feeding vermin expensive steak cutlets, versus bonking them with empty beer bottles. This was met with cold stares.

    As the sun set slowly set behind us, the vermin began to invade the campsite very aggressively– to my wife's dismay! She responded like any rational person, by throwing expensive, lighter fluid-imbued charcoal briquettes at the lurking beasts. I responded in kind by using a variety of curse words.

    I vowed never again to be at the mercy of these deceptively disgusting creatures. Thus begins my multi-faceted, expensive airgun Odyssey.

    You see? If you really look at it, its all her fault;^)

    BTW: Our last camping trip, my wife INSISTED that I bring an airgun. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

  28. Okay okay, I cave. No raccoons ever come my way. And Ole Yeller also made me feel sorry for them. But I guess if one tried to play chicken with me for my garage I would not be too pleased. Too bad. Seems a housebroken one might make a nice pet…?


  29. AlanL
    Coons do not make good pets.
    If you raise one from very young and it happens to have a nice personality by accident, it is still too destructive to have around. They have some kind of natural desire to get into everything..they are obsessed with it.

    Any wild coon that does not run from you, or is out in the daytime is dangerous.


  30. Slinging lead:
    Hilarious story I spat my tea over the laptop laughing.Thanks:)

    Both Times I have been in the USA it was to Florida.
    I only saw one Raccoon and that was flat in the road.
    Even so I was in awe looking at it.
    Raccoons and snakes in your gardens.Wow!
    Domestic cats and the odd rat or mouse is all I get in mine.

  31. I wouldn't have thought that you could take out a full size raccoon with an air rifle, even a PCP like the Disco. The high end, high power Korean rifles maybe. Never with a spring piston magnum air rifle. No raccoons around here – the coyotes got them all.

    Live and learn.

    On the first and last camping trip I took with my wife, she flipped out over the deer in the blue Ridge Parkway campground. The skunk that appeared at night sent her over the edge. Now she considers roughing it a Best Western motel. Sheesh.

    Fred PRoNJ

  32. Donkeyscrump,

    B.B. Pelletier said that in Germany if you spotted a house cat more than 100 meters from human habitation you could shoot it, like common game. Is the same true in Great Britain?


  33. With all the recent talk of the S410 versus Mauraders and other guns, I was wondering if anyone knew of a way to tune down a Blizzard S-10 so that it would shoot in the 30-35 ft lb range (instead of around 45). That would make for one fine, quiet shooter at a fair price, hopefully with many shoots per fill. Plus 45 ft lbs is too powerful for varmints in my area – the pellet will be likely to exit in an unpredictable manner with sufficient energy to do damage.

    Any thooughts?

    Alan in MI

  34. Now what about armadillos they can cause some serious destruction. What do you use to dispense of them other than a vehicle. Typical roadkill here in SWGA.

    I would have to disagree based on experience. Maybe it was an isolated case but when I was young we raised a young raccoon as a indoor pet. He did sleep in a cage at night. He lived about 6-7yrs and had to be put down due to a form of cancer. Like I said maybe we were just fortunate.


  35. rikib
    We had two different ones.
    One was more like a dog most of the time. The other liked to do what he wanted, and used as much force as needed to get his way.

    Very different personalities between individuals.


  36. Dave,

    At present I have living in my back yard or coming on my property nearly every day the following:

    1 groundhog (American marmot, woodchuck, as you like it)

    2 raccoons who come up onto my deck and try to raid the bird feeder almost every night. One's a grumpy old one and the other a fairly cute smaller one (but he's growing). Wouldn't be a problem in the UK, but 'coons in Virginia sometimes carry rabies, so we shoo them away.

    1 female fox; almost certainly she has a den of kits underground who haven't made their appearance yet.

    1 herd of deer numbering at last count when we saw them together 8 animals; last fall we had 3 mature does, 3 fawns, and 2 yearlings, one of which had small antlers. In addition a herd of 4 bucks ranging from 2 years (2 points on each antler) to one with a rack of antlers that would glorify a German hunting lodge that visit infrequently.

    1 pair of red-shouldered hawks who keep the squirrel population in check, as does the fox; thank you very much!

    And numerous field mice, gophers, chipmunks and so on.

    This is in Northern Virginia, 14 miles via crow flight from the White House, in a housing development in a 'village', altho' I admit that we have about 4-5 acres of open space in front of us that is flood plain and unbuildable and an acre of woods behind — home to the deer.


  37. PeteZ
    Sounds like you live in the backyard of my birthplace, Fairfax County. My dad was station at Fort Belvoir and Quantico. I haven't been back there in decades.


  38. AlanL:
    Oh,no shooting any cats is not allowed in the UK.
    Although they try my patience when pooping and peeing in my back yard I would never take a sneeky pot shot at one.
    Small vermin is my quarry.
    A good clean kill on a dirty Rat.
    Very satisfying:)

    Sounds like heaven.
    Don't get me wrong Britains countryside has a lot to offer but the Size of the USA means you have such contrasts in land and animals.
    I loved the TV show 'Grissly Adams' as a kid and that was just the tip of the iceberg where he lived compared to rest of your nation.

  39. Mr. B,

    RE: Using nitrogen gas

    There is no problem chemically using nitrogen gas since air is 80% nitrogen anyway. Also nitrogen gas will be dry as others have noted. That is a very good thing.

    There will be two problems.

    First as has already been discussed, there is the problem of the fittings. A nitrogen gas tank doesn't use the same fittings that a "standard" HPA tank for pellet guns uses.

    The second problem is a bit more obtuse. There is a safety problem as well. You noted that the nitrogen tank has a pressure of 4000 psi. I doubt that your gun is rated for that kind of pressure. You risk your safety and the safety of anyone near you when you are filling the gun. So you should really have a two stage regulator that will drop the 4000 psi to 2500 psi(or whatever the max fill pressure that you want). I'm a belt and suspenders guy when it comes to safety, so it would be a good idea to have some sort of burst disk on the gun side of the fitting assembly. That way if the pressure exceeded 3000 psi (or whatever limit you want…) then the burst disk would blow.

    You can of course "leak" gas out of the 4000 psi tank slowly and fill the gun until the pressure reaches the 2500 psi then shut the valve from the tank. But if you fill too fast, or get distracted, then you might fill the gun to 4000 psi. Things that fragment under pressure are called bombs…


  40. Mr. B

    Re: Nitrogen

    Below from my old DuPont Safety Manual. Also… note that hi-pressure Nitrogen gas moving through systems (ie hoses, couplings and etc) acts a super refrigerant. You may (will) get frost and possible leaking issues from sub-zero metallic fittings (steel more so than bronze or aluminum). Also, some materials do not act well at very low temps, like low-temper aluminum, they easily deform.

    Last, Nitrogen is Oxygen exclusive or will "smother" any low levels of oxygen quickly, such as the air we breath.

    Brian in Idaho

    From DuPont… In the same way, if somebody says “Nitrogen”, we immediately associate it with safety purging systems, tank blanketing systems, inertness and generally the subconscious tells us “Oh, its only Nitrogen. Nothing to worry about!” and we drop our guard while listening, working or designing or whatever it is that we are doing with respect to Nitrogen. We are in other words, lulled into a false sense of security.

    However, we should now drill into our subconscious mind ( and also into the heads of our colleagues who handle Nitrogen), that Nitrogen can be very very deadly. It can act as an asphyxiant and choke a person to death in less than 40 seconds! When the US Chemical Safety Board started investigating accidents involving Nitrogen, they found that 85 nitrogen asphyxiation incidents occurred in the workplace between 1992 and 2002 . In these incidents 80 people were killed and 50 were injured. There is a very informative bulletin at the CSB website on this issue, please download it and print it out, then stick it on your Safety notice board/bulletin board. It can be a lifesaver for somebody.

    Nitrogen tends to displace Oxygen from the air, whenever it comes in contact with it. Thus if a continuos flow of Nitrogen is released into air, the Oxygen level in the air depletes very fast and can choke a person who is breathing this Nitrogen rich air.

  41. Slinging Lead,
    You are a very smart man. I will endeavor to learn from you. Funny story.

    Here in Woodstock, GA our neighborhood visitors include in most populous to least order:
    Squirrels, Chipmunks, Rabbit, Deer, Crows, Racoons, Opossums, Red Shouldered Hawks, and the last few years we've seen the odd Coyote and fox, last year we even had a black bear in the neighborhood that caused quite a commotion until it got hit by a car. Never thought about other places not having wildlife around, just took it for granted.

  42. Fused:
    A Bear!Incredible.
    Britain lost its last Bears back in…middle ages, maybe earlier.
    In London I saw a few foxes and the odd grey squirrel plus various wild birds but nothing special.
    In Lincolnshire I saw my first Badger at the same time as I hit it at 40mph in my taxi:(
    I have seen several live ones since though:)
    Barn Owl's and Falcons occasionaly on the fens.
    Masses of bunnies,pheasants and partridge.
    We have wild deer but they tend to live on private land.
    looking at my list maybe I am also taking what we have for granted.
    I got to say though, Bears and coyotes sound a lot more exciting.

  43. Volvo,

    Thanks for the offer of the belt. The holster I got seems to have a large attachment for any sort of belt and my Dad collects belts so I'm okay. But thanks for the offer.

    Single Six is imminent. I managed to locate one through the kind offices of Pete's Gun Shop in Adams, MA, a fantastic place. Is it true that, like airguns, .22 rimfires do not need to be cleaned? Seems too good to be true. If they do, how does one clean a Single Six? I suppose you remove the cylinder. But is there a way to clean from the chamber and not the muzzle?

    I believe I'll practice my quick draw with dry-firing only.

    Fused, I had the same problem trying to find a suitable optic for my Dad to use with my Savage 10FP. I got a red dot sight exclusively for this purpose for $50, but he could not make out the red dot in the daytime even on maximum power. But the answer was in my hands the whole time with my Leapers 6-24X50. He had no problem seeing the reticle. I believe that red dots are only easier to use in terms of eye relief (assuming you can make out the red dot). A regular scope reticle should be much easier to see, but the eye relief is much more precise and restricted.


  44. Fused
    come on down to SWGA (Putney, GA) you can added a few more "creature" comforts;)

    Nitro with guns I guess I'd have to say I'd wimp out, seeing some of the mishaps at the US 19 Speedway about a mile down the road.

    We do have beautiful country. I driven across it 4 times. Been from southern Florida to northern Maine to southern California and Alaska (even Hawaii and the Alaskan Aleutian Island Chain). Yours is something also to be treasured and differs from ours in so many ways, Wales is like nothing I've seen here nor is London or northeastern England. Every country I've been to has it's own beauty.


  45. rikib:
    Very true mate.The world sure is a beautiful place.

    Come to Lincolnshire and I will show you the inside of some beautiful pubs as well.
    And after plenty of pints we could view the underside of some very well made antique tables.lol
    1.20am so off to bed.
    Take care.

  46. Kevin/Volvo,

    Thanks for all the info on the s410 and FX guns. Man, they sound nice! The multi-pump analogy for the AA power adjuster resonates with me bigtime, having grown up on the Daisy 880.

    Wayne, does your club use your s410 for FT? Do you have a recipe for dialing it to 11.5 and/or 19.5?


  47. rikib,

    Great Falls, VA. Precisely the back yard of Fairfax County.


    Yes, it's gorgeous here. Best in spring, mid-April, with cherry blossoms and all kinds of other flowering trees. But I did live in England for 4 years, and the English countryside is equally lovely. But I found much less wildlife there except for the urban foxes. One attached himself to us when we walked up to the Greenwich Observatory and hung around for about 10 minutes, peaceful as a collie. Then there was the time we went to a play at the outdoor theater (theatre) in Regent's Park… A fox came out from the woods, paraded in front of the audience and then planted itself in front of the stage watching the play, "As You Like It". The cast couldn't see through the lights and were really puzzled when the audience began to laugh uncontrollably. Finally… and shortly thereafter the fox left as quietly as it came.


  48. Not for nothing that the German word for nitrogen is "Stickstoff", meaning the gas that suffocates. There would be no danger from the amount of gas in a gun's tank; there might be from the amount in a few-thousand psi supply tank.

  49. Jan,

    Yes our club has an AAs410 that I "locked" like Kevin suggested, at 19.5fpe. We also have a stock from the box AA S 400 MPR FT. It shoots right at 11.9 fpe. The international limit and one of the classes you can choose to shoot in.
    Open class allows up to 20fpe and a harness that supports the back by hooking and locking the knees, making you very solid I hear, and knee stands on that solid base.

    International class allows the knee stands, but not the harness, with 12fpe max. This is very tough for long shots for there is a lot of drop and wind effect past 30 yards with 12fpe. Those 40 to 55 yard targets can be real fun.
    We also have the AAs400 single shot sidelever with adjustable power, that I also locked at 19.5fpe.
    The 410 and 400 are in sport stocks with no knee stand. But they shoot so flat, that if I set the scopes with at the peak of the pellet, 32 about yards, the shooter is always holding over or right on the center except for wind.. All within a quick learning curve of a few mildots. As proven with the new 13 and 14 year old young men we show the guns to for the first time. 60% on their first ever ten lanes of field target! They were learning that hold over as they shot the course.. next time watch out!

    That learning curve would be slower and frustrating, with the "better" AA MPR FT 400 with the match grade trigger and adjustable stock… only because, it's set up for the international class and 12fpe.

    The choice is between making targets fall in open class or international class.
    Yes, the Marauder or AAs400 with adjustable power that CAN be locked tight… But some match directors may wonder if you changed it to 22 or 24 when no one is watching.. Of course this is only at the most serious matches.. if you are winning! They can always check you.

    One issue can also be the magazine, a single shot gun like the AAs400 has more room to quickly load the pellet.

    The rules want a single shot gun, but most match directors will allow you to remove the magazine with each shot. This is because a serious match is timed.

    So, unless you want an "all around hunting and fairly serious FT rig" like the budget, but good Marauder, or nicer/better AAS410.
    Then go for a good used AAs400 someone has set up for FT, or if your good with a sport stock get a new one and lock down the power at 12fpe, see how you do. The you can always set her up and lock it down again at 19.5fpe if you want to change class to open.

    Single shot is still fine for hunting… if it's not, then you better practice on the course more before hunting:-)

    Wacky Wayne
    Match Director,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range

  50. Matt61,

    If you change your mind on the belt, shoot Bg Farmer an e-mail and he can give you my info. The belt differs from a normal belt greatly in size and function. Besides loops for cartridges, they are much wider and worn over your pants belt. Mine came from the place that sounds like you are hailing a cab in Italy. It is a dark burgundy color and in great shape even though it is over ten years old.

    Did you try Gunbroker? They are fairly common on there. Mine is the stainless version and while not target quality in accuracy, being able to shoot CB caps in my basement to .22 magnums in the field is pretty nice. I prefer it over any air pistol.

    You will want to clean the Single Six, a bore snake works fine.

  51. Jan,
    I was an 881 owner myself. Three pumps for plinking, seven for long range, and 10 for serious business. By coincidence, the Cyclone has three distinct power settings… : )

  52. I met once a raccoon that was the pet of a friend of mine. She (was a female coon) was sweet and funny with us; but when she looked at women, even those of the family, disgruntled immediately and roared with fury. Some sort of enemy of women. Curious that never showed any anger with men.


    There are some parts in my country where people uses to have iguanas, armadillos, badgers, snakes, white-tailed deers, and even skunks as pets. The most incredicle is that they usually are fine neighbours. A friend of my father had a beautiful little white-collar peccary as a pet many years ago. It was smart, clean and very compliant. I'd love having one of such pets.



  53. Gripes were a a few days back, but I just found another one. I've been trying for over a month to decide on which 45/410 I wanted. I finally decided, found a local dealer (well about 25 miles away) called and found they are not in business anymore. In this day of instant communication can't things be kept up to date. I received the dealer info from the manufacturer. Now I have to start looking all over again.

    Just venting

  54. Don't know why but old Einstein popped into mind tonight, here are a couple quotes:

    Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves.
    Albert Einstein
    (Sounds as if he is talking about cell phone drivers!)

    Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking.
    Albert Einstein
    (had to read that one a couple times to get the meaning)


    Prayers are with you Tom & Edith, tomorrow (today) is going to be a brighter day!

  55. Edith
    About reviews, I know it is an old subject. Why is it that on PA we can not sort reviews by star ratings. Sometimes I just want to look at the negative reviews first to see if any of them warrant any merit. Other times I look at average reviews. Other sites offer the ability to sort by star rating why not PA.


  56. Anthony:
    An Englishman wants to smuggle a Skunk into the UK.
    He suggests to his wife she puts it in her dirty laundry bag to get through customs.
    She asks,
    "What about the smell?"
    The husband responds,
    "well if it dies,it dies"

  57. rikib,

    I'll send in your suggestion to Pyramyd AIR. However, I think sorting reviews by stars is already on their to-do list for website upgrades.


  58. Brian,

    I spoke to Tom briefly this morning, and he's doing okay. He didn't get much sleep last night, though. I'll be taking my laptop to the hospital and will work there for 4-6 hrs today. I'll do the same on Sunday. He'll dictate some blogs for next week. Of course, I won't overwork him! He'll nap a bit while I'm there, which will give me a chance to catch up on my gigantic backlog.


  59. Jan,

    The way I set the power adjuster is with my crony. That's how I test for 20fpe and under at matches too.

    You will need a crony to see what three levels the FX is shooting at too. It's nice to be right under 20fpe, but 16 or 18fpe is pretty easy to shoot too. 12 fpe is a challenge! And a few brave souls shoot 6 & 8fpe 10 meter guns for field target! Many times they hit the paddle in the kill zone, but it doesn't fall for lack of energy. It's hard to adjust the targets so they will fall with 3fpe on the paddle and not fall with a 18fpe face hit at 50 yards.

    Oh, and the .22cal Evanix Blizzard shoots 34fpe out of the box. It's the Rainstorm that's advertising 46fpe, but ours didn't do quite that much… yet…

    Wacky Wayne,
    Match Director
    Ashland Air Rifle Range

  60. Wayne,

    Have you found a way to adjust the Blizzard or Rainstorm power down a bit? A reviewer on the gun at PA said it is possible, but I have not seen a way to do so described anywhere. I think if the Rainstorm could be lowered a bit it could be a neat setup – or would it just be a Blizzard?

    I'm not looking to get it down to 20 fpe for FT, just to get the power a little more manageable for my indoor range.

    Alan in MI

  61. Alan,
    I'm not the tinkerer. But Ed sure is, and I'm sure he'll figure out the power adjustments. But the Evanix Rainstorm we just got is shooting accurate now, with 18.2gr JSB at about 970fps if I remember right.

    If you want indoor shooting on a budget, then the Marauder is the one. Quiet, accurate, and great indoors or out. If your budget is up for it, then the AAs400 or 410 with the very, very easy power adjuster and smooth as silk side lever.

    Wacky Wayne

  62. The Rainstorm is a carbine sized gun, while the Blizzard is a full size rifle, so no, they would not be the same if the Rainstorm was tunned down on power.

    But more shots should be gained with less power and 30fpe is just right for the best accuracy with the most shots with most any .22 cal PCP.

    An Evanix Rainstorm might be the perfect carbine size hunter, as is, from the box, but Ed will play with it until it's even better!

    Wacky Wayne, MD.
    Ashland Air Rifle Range

  63. FX three position power adjuster vs. Air Arms fully adjustable…

    One point I've made in the past, but since we are bringing up the subject again, is..

    As your air supply gets low, one can bring back up the point of impact (POI), if one has started off at 1/2 or 3/4 power, by simply adjusting the power up a tad on the easy access little knob on the Air Arms. I've gotten 130 shots on target at 875fps with 10.5gr from my AAs410 FAC with that method.

    Try that with an FX or Marauder, or Evanix!

    Wacky Wayne, MD.
    Ashland Air Rifle Range

  64. It's notable to me that after 3 ? years of owning an Air Arms S410SL FAC and 50 different air guns that Wayne still sings praises of the Air Arms S410.

    Not as notable, but I'm right behind him singing backup. In my opinion, the S410 SL sets the bar for all other pcp's to meet.


  65. Edith,

    Please convey my best wishes to Tom.
    Good to hear he is on the mend.

    Other topics:

    Shooting cats is a no-no, especially around me.

    I hit an armadillo once on the Natchez Trace at about fifty mph. It was like hitting a cement block.
    Bottomed my front suspension and even dented my front subframe!
    I consider them to be armor-plated possums. One of the guys I worked with there caught one on his farm and spray-painted it fluorescent orange. He was able to track it all summer. When you encounter one on the road, they react by jumping straight up in the air. Not very effective.

    I cleaned my XT yesterday per Tom's instructions. Didn't get any egg salad sandwiches out, but did get some won-ton noodles and sweet-and-sour shrimp.


  66. Edith,

    I'm very happy to hear Tom is progressing well. Also glad to hear that a decent health care facility is only 15-20 minutes away. Thanks for keeping us posted… even on your weekend.


    You mentioned before that your S410 is as quiet as a factory marauder, post mods. What mods have you done?

    – Orin

  67. Fused
    I don't really fish, but my neighbor has a bass boat. Some old friend haven't seen in awhile fished for Brim, it's pretty good fried up. The Flint is also a good place for finding artifacts, when it is not to high.


  68. Les
    armadillo (armor plated) sounds about right:) The only one I hit was with my Wrangler which had skid plates (thank God), your right cement block or railroad tie feeling. They are very destructive to land around here. By the way if they are in the area, never leave your vehicle door open. My friend and I were out shooting skeet, he left his truck door open when we came back there was one in the cab tearing up his seats and all the wiring under the dash. Luckily I had kept my Jeep closed so we had some transportation, man his truck was a mess.


  69. Volvo,

    Thanks, I'll let you know if I change my mind after getting my holster rig together. That's good to know about the boresnake. That was in the back of my mind as an option.

    I forget who mentioned throwing marinated pieces of steak intended for shish kabobs out to racoons. I should put my raccoon suit on.


  70. Pete Z.,

    Mr. B just had a lovely idea. DIFTA is having a field target “fun match” on Saturday, May 15. Mr. B and I both plan to be there. Any interest in joining us?

    PS, when you asked Edith about DIFTA a few days ago, I could have sworn I offered to show you around the place, but now I can’t see where I did. Must be early-onset senility. Anyway, do let me know if you would like to join me sometime for the dime tour of the Damascus IWLA, and of course for some airgun shooting! It’s probably a bit of a hike from NVa, but the folks and the facilities are terrific and might be worth the drive.

    I think you mentioned that you were a 10m shooter. AND I think I recall that you hit lots of nines and tens?!? If so, damn the long drive – we need you!!! A group of “adults” (read: “old farts”) meets every Monday evening for indoor 10m shooting (actually, indoors during the cooler months, and on the outdoor range starting this Monday the 3rd). The regulars participate in postal matches. Sounds like you’re our next ringer! We also host one or more DIFTA FT matches per month during the warmer months (~April..Nov), and this year, we’re hosting the AAFTA national match!

    PPS, Mr. B mentioned shooting at the Berwyn Rod and Gun Club (http://www.berwyn.org/) which is probably closer to you. There’s also a Rockville, MD IWLA chapter (http://www.iwla-rockville.com/) which must be closer than Damascus, and also has a 10m crowd (but maybe not quite the outdoor facilities of the Damascus chapter?).


  71. Seemed a little slow tonight so I thought I'd provided a few quotes from Ole' Einstein to ponder:

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
    Albert Einstein

    Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile.
    Albert Einstein

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

    There comes a time when the mind takes a higher plane of knowledge but can never prove how it got there.
    Albert Einstein


  72. Anonymous with the Discovery Pump,

    Give Crosman a call at 1-800-7AIRGUN (724-7486) ask for customer service,tell them your problem, who knows you might get lucky and they'll cover it under warrenty.

    Mr B.

  73. To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.
    Ralph Waldo Emerson

    To know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.
    Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Okay I promise no more quotes tonight.

    Just prayers and happy thoughts for Tom & Edith.


  74. rikib:
    I love quotes.
    A lot of wisdom in so few words.
    I find this one slightly comforting when I look at my Chinese side lever AK47 lookalike.

    "It is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have already got."

    Sorry mate,I don't know the quotes originator.

    Edith and BB.
    I hope today brings good things to you both.
    Here is a joke for you.

    A cat walks into a pub and asks the barman for a pint.
    The barman is amazed by this talking cat and asks,
    "Where did you come from?"
    The cat replies,
    "I am a drywall fitter working on the building site over the road"
    The barman still in shock just serves the cat his pint.
    The next time the cat comes into the pub the barman says,
    "I spoke to a mate and he has got you a job earning $1000 a day in a Circus"
    The cat is pleased and says,
    "That is fantastic,thank you. Better than the pay rates on my building site.Just one question though.
    Why does a Circus need a drywall fitter?"

  75. To all who responded to my questions about using HP nitrogen in my PCP's thanks for your imputs. When I get done with this project, I'll let you know how it's working.

    Mr B.

  76. Genghis Jan,

    I could very well be your next victim. It sounds good!

    But any such has to wait until after about the 20th of May as I have 2 long trips in between, leaving for London on the evening of 15 May, so I would stick close to home that day.

    So far I am strictly a 10m shooter; wish I got mostly 9s and 10s, but right now am in a slump. Last night I couldn't inside the 6-7 rings (rifle) until after half an hour when I finally did 3 consecutive 9s, the last two same-hole. Decided to quit when "ahead" Fourth day of slump.

    Does anybody else agree that the pistol target is a lot more forgiving than the air rifle one?

    Shoot me an e-mail at peter dot zimmerman at cox dot net and we can discuss w/o bothering the whole list.

  77. Pete Z.,
    The 10M AR target is brutal, so it is not just you. I'm usually happy to stay in the "black" when shooting by the rules, although I did once dream of 9 and 10's:).

    They make impressive 50 yard targets for .22LR rested, also; pretty challenging due to the way they are made, even with a big scope.

  78. Volvo,

    Thanks for the reminiscence. Couldn't help myself from being right there with you on that warm summer day.

    I still have my 30-06 remington 700 bdl. Haven't shot it in years. Terribly beat up with thin bluing. I'm not a very sentimental guy but the memories of my first big game hunts with that gun make it worth more to me than anyone else in the world.

    The weather allowed me to shoot the cyclone yesterday out to 50 yards. Had about 30 minutes before it clouded up and started blowing in a storm. Only shot jsb 18.1's. I'm impressed with the accuracy but ecstatic over the shot count and velocity spread.

    The cyclone stays and the s410 carbine went on the yellow earlier this morning.


  79. Pcsashooter,

    Congratulations on winning the Airgunarena eMatch bench rest competition. However, I'm sad, sad indeed because while I do enjoy coming in second place I don't enjoy it because there were only us two shooters. Also, while I enjoy winning the random drawing for the $10 gift certificate I don't enjoy it because I am the only entry.

    This month I'm going to also enter the silhouette competition with my Bronco, and I'm also seriously considering getting the Challenger or maybe a .177 Marauder for the open sights venues since I can't use my .22 Marauder for competiton. The Challenger is a competition rifle whereas the Marauder is not.

    I really like the Bronco. I have shot it a little more and it is definitely accurate and easy to cock and not so hold sensitive. Everything BB said it would be.

    I liked the open sights on my Bronco but I can't see worth a dang. Either the front post is in focus or the target but never both so I put a 6X BugBuster scope on it and man did that make a difference. I shot a full row of nines on the bench rest target that could have been 10s but for a micron or two. I tried a couple larger scopes but the gun won't accommodate my 15" scopes or the barrel hits it when you cock it.

    I tried to put the Daisy Avanti Precision peep on it, and this peep would work good for me because with it I can see the front post and the target clearly on my IZH-61, but this will not work without something to raise it up higher on the Bronco since it won't clear the back receiver cap at the stock.

    I tried the Beeman peep and it sighted in perfect for me with it adjusted all the way down and without modifying the stock like BB had to do. The problem with it is the peep hole is too large and that makes the target too blurry for me. I tried to make a paper insert with a smaller hole but couldn't get the hole smooth enough to work right.

    Therefore, I scoped it. I want to try another scope but haven't decided which other gun to cannibalize to get one.

    Well, I hope to beat you next month. Maybe meet you on the silhouette match? BTW, it looks like no one entered the silhouette match last month. I hope we don't lose the matches because of non-participation. Seems like more people are interested in the pistol matches. Ah well, maybe that's next for me. Don't have that bug yet.


  80. CJr,

    Brownells should cary the insert(s) you're looking for.

    I am trying to decide on how I'm going to shoot in the ematches with you guys. I'm probably going to buy a .177 cal barrel for my SS and give you a run for your money. Cann't decide on the 12 or 24 inch one though. No 18" because I've got an Airhoug shroud for the other two. If you were me,which length would you choose?

    Mr B.

  81. Kevin,
    You never cease to surprise me. If you've got a 700 in .30-06, you can clean a lot of clutter out of that closet: It won't hurt that gun to shoot it:)!

    If you and Volvo both like the Cyclone, I'm doubly impressed, although I was already taken by it based on Volvo's feedback. The three-level power adjustment is the type of feature that all PCP's should have.

  82. BG_Farmer,

    Bought the 300 weatherby mark V in 1974-1975 and it replaced the 700. I was trying to remember the last time I shot the 700. Think it was early 1980's since I loaned it to a friend and we took it to the range to make sure the scope was still on. Haven't shot it since.

    Nearest, decent outdoor gun range is now an hour drive. Just don't shoot powder much anymore.

    I fully agree with you. I won't own a pcp without a power adjustment feature.


  83. Mr B,
    I have the 12" barrel on mine. As best I can tell the longer barrel will give you more power. I don't know about more accuracy. I read BB's article on the Talon and he didn't mention more/less accuracy with a longer barrel just more power.


    If the longer barrel doesn't hurt accuracy and you want to hunt with it and you already have a shroud I'd say go for the 24". That's what I'd do.

    I hope to see some scores by May 30th.

    WV – bequit – don't know if that means stop or shut up. OK, I'll do both.


  84. PeteZ
    Hope you enjoy your your trip. What type pellet do you use in your pistol? And as always I forget everything, what type pistol do you shoot? I myself, 2240.

    Loved the quote, it's one that I have had to live by.
    The joke was great too. Don't know if you remember the old Britcom "Are You Being Served?", but made me think of that (the pussy in a different manner of speaking).


  85. rikib,

    The longer barrel allows more time/distance for the air (or CO2) to accelerate the pellet. However, this does not hold true for springers, as the air charge is so small (springers hit maximum velocity in about 10 inches of travel, then they pretty much just coast out the barrel).

    Also, for a given air charge, the longer barrels are queiter becuase the air has expanded more before the pellet exits. So longer barrels can mean higher speeds and a quieter gun – a pretty good deal!

    Alan in MI

  86. Anthony
    If you like the Brit humor you might check your local PBS. Don't know where you live, but here in SWGA they broadcast about 4-5 hours of BBC every Saturday night. You could also check online as I have watched some there as well. Just a suggestion for viewing some good Brit humor in the states.


  87. Alan in MI
    Thanks for that response. I guess I thought that the immediate pressure would have caused the greatest force and that the longer barrel would create friction thus slowing the pellet. Guess I was way out in left, left field. Thanks for that info and straightening me out.


  88. rikib,

    I shoot an FWB C-20 (quite old CO2 match gun) and for variety an IZH-46M. Usually I use R-10 rifle (heavy) pellets, but I'm trying with the Champion's Choice regular weight version of the H&N Match, but in 4.49 mm head size, because it fits the Izzy a bit better. The C-20 doesn't seem to care what I feed it as long as it's not a white box pellet with all kinds of manufacturing errors..

    This isn't a fun trip to London. It's land on Monday, all-day meeting on Tuesday and home either Wed or Thurs with business on Wed if I stay over the day.

    A longer barrel can add power to a pellet because the expanding air has more distance and time to accelerate the pellet. The trade offs are: 1) friction with the barrel that can rob most of the extra oomph and 2) possibility of more barrel irregularities.

    Don Nygard, one of the greatest pistol shots of all time (16 times US National Champion one time World Champion) did some experiments with the old FWB 65 pistol (then the top AP in the world) in which he cut down the barrel significantly and found that accuracy actually seemed to go up. That led FWB to market a short-barreled model which was quite successful. Don died in 2004 after a long illness. He left behind a website loaded with shooting tips we should all look at from time to time:


    Edith — this is not a plug for another dealer; Nygard's company was closed long ago, so please don't delete this.


  89. Kevin,
    It sounds like my Glenfield 60, which was "lent" to my brothers (who probably put 100,000 Thunderbolts through it — with nary a cleaning judging by the bolt:)) and then sat in my parents' basement for 10 years. However, if you had asked me, that was my favorite rifle, from shooting the rooster that terrorized my baby brothers to perhaps 100's of sleepy mornings sitting in the cold woods watching squirrels play before going to school:).

  90. This is to anyone who maybe be concerned about their privacy. I have verified by finding some of my own personal info there. Not all info about me was correct, but there was enough there that disturbed me. The site is http://www.spokeo.com type your name see what comes up about you! There is a option to delete this info. You may not be interested but I was a little disturbed at the free info and more available if you pay.

    This is just for info I can not guarantee anything. I just found my name, address, house appraisal, my average income all listed for free. Name, address and income where accurate, home appraisal not so. But this is disturbing this was all free.

    Well like I said this is just some info that I thought needed passing on.


  91. Just a note
    I deleted myself and my wife off of there last night and we no longer show up on the list.


    I know there are a lot more list out there but this is one you can get yourself of from.

  92. rikib,
    I wouldn't worry about that info on the web. The free stuff isn't anything I couldn't get out of a phone book and the house value is readily available several places, especially for use by real estate companies and taxing bodies. They didn't even get my name right at my address. If you were really concerned you could pay them for the "hidden" info and see if they have any useful info. Let me know how that works out:-)


  93. CJr
    Sorry, just thought I would past on some info. By the way you would not find me in the phonebook as the phone is listed in wife's maiden name. If info is of no concern okay, so be it:)


  94. PZ,

    Shortening a barrel also reduces the sight radius which is supposed to be a factor in accuracy. I wonder if Nygard was testing from a rest?


  95. Mr. B,
    Thanks, that is my new favorite website! Airguns and Fishing together – now I'm never going to get any work done. That 392 is definitely a work of art.

  96. Matt61 asked: "Shortening a barrel also reduces the sight radius which is supposed to be a factor in accuracy. I wonder if Nygard was testing from a rest"

    Nygard was shooting a pistol. The sight radius is adequate for that forgiving target even with a 2" shorter barrel. Spoken from experience. I shortened mine by 1.5" (as much as possible) making for less perceived hand movement, and my scores jumped at least one ring per shot — and have stayed there.

    rikib asked: "So do I understand it right. A longer barrel will increase power at the expense of accuracy?"

    Well, not exactly. A good barrel tries to optimize both these days. It's true that if you cannot hit something, the power of the shot doesn't exactly matter. And if there's not enough power even a hit doesn't do much. So it's a fine balance. 10m target rifles optimize differently than a higher-powered FT gun would. etc.


  97. Pete,

    Great! Bummer about all the business travel, but I’m sure we’ll make time for some shooting sooner or later. As a dyed-in-the-wool 10m guy, you should ideally join us for a Monday evening shoot AND an FT match. I’ll email you soon.

    I don’t think there’s anything “forgiving” about the 10m rifle OR pistol targets. Both seem rather absurd to me. Our IWLA chapter has an active youth 10m program, and the recent targets are typically posted at our indoor 10m range. I literally can’t believe that anybody can hit that ridiculous dot that they call a 10 “ring”. When I sometimes join our 10m “adult” shooters for 10m pistol matches, I’m happy enough just to hit the paper.


  98. rikib,
    No soft spots here. Just tryin to help a bud out. I'm commiserating with you. One of those sites even keeps track of your prescriptions. And another keeps track of how you treated your landlord, if you have/had one. There is no such thing as privacy anymore. Maybe there never was, we just are more aware of it now.

  99. Chuck
    Your right, I'd waste some time looking at those sites you posted. Most of which just lead to searchs to multiples sites, others wanting money before info.
    At least the site I provided contained basic info, some correct some incorrect (I don't live in a $1mil house) at no fee. If you want more info you can pay for it.
    I have checked people I know, family and friends (knowing their basic geo. location) and found both correct and incorrect info there.


  100. Chuck
    Now that I think of it I have used google earth to look at street level and aerial images of my house and family members houses. Damn I wonder if these cameras built into laptops now are always on and we don't know it. Same with cell phones. Maybe I'm getting paranoid or not;)


  101. rikib,
    I remember "1984" and 1984. Warning…1984 spoiler alert! My favorite gruesome parts were where they put the rat cage over a guy's head and then when they were walking him down the hall after all the torture and brain washing and the guy had finally learned to love Big Brother… Do you remember…the little friend coming to greet him? I do. I think I was still in High School when that book came out. I got spooked every time I walked past the TV after reading that book. Now I just thumb my nose at it and keep walking.


  102. Chuck
    Yeah, I remember the book. Doubt I still have it around, I'm sure the wife has donated it along with a lot of my other books I didn't know about. I was also a big Bowie fan (well gotta admit still am) an loved the song. Can't remember if it was on the LP "Diamond Dogs" or the one preceding.


  103. Dang you, Kevin. Had to go and mention FX, didn't you? I've heard the company mentioned more than once, but never gave it much thought until you said you were selling your S410. Then I got really curious.

    I went to the FX website, and as if a Marauder wasn't temptation enough to pull me over to the Darkside, now I'm lusting after guns that cost 3-4 times as much.

    What's funny is that I was wondering a couple of days ago why nobody has tried to harness the wasted air from a shroud or LDC and use it to power a semi-auto action. Well, obviously FX has. The Monsoon seems like the ultimate hunting gun. Semi-auto, 12-round clip, 900 FPS in .22, synthetic or walnut stock, Lothar Walther choked barrel, thumbhole, match trigger. Man, I'm in love. Now if somebody would just spot me $1700. Wait – I'll need a pump & scope… better make it $2500…

    – Orin

  104. Not really sure how I came acrossed it I was originally comparing 410's to 12ga's. I some how ended up on an old blog site where someone was concerned that we maybe contributing too much lead into the environment. Additionally, poisoning ourself if we ate what was killed with lead pellets. The real funny part was the person stated at the end that they had shot their fair share of game. I think the blog was back between '05-'07 and don't know how I got there but it was a funny read.


  105. rikiB

    It was Diamond Dogs. I have a tip for you. If you are looking for any kind of music, search for it on Amazon.com You can even find some obscure stuff.

    Many albums will even let you listen to clips of every song. This helps when you can't remember the name. You can waste a pantload of time on this site, just surfing around, listening to this and that.

    I use it to cut and paste album art to add to my ipod sometimes.

    We are getting quite the pounding from a vicious thunderstorm right now. I hope you have all the dogs and cats inside.

  106. It's not big brother I worry about…it's big businesses and criminals I worry about.

    BB – hope to see you around soon, but get your rest first.

  107. AJ

    Big brother, i.e. the Government, should cause you concern regardless of your political persuasion. They look out for their interests at the expense of our own the second our backs are turned. They warrant constant vigilance and worry as well.

    As far as big businesses are concerned, they are not all bad. Several areas of the country could use some big businesses right about now. PA is a big business is it not?

    The free market punishes bad business practices. The government interferes by enabling, protecting, defending, and finally bailing out these same business practices.

    Having the government on the side of the consumer would be nice, but they are always getting into bed with the enemy (big businesses that are actually bad.)

    You only have to look to recent history to see evidence of this. Huge companies made huge gambles with other people's money. If it had paid off, they alone would have reaped the benefits. Since it didn't and the Government deems a particular company 'too big to fail' the Government takes our money, and gives it to them. The higher-ups celebrate by throwing themselves an extravagant party. Meanwhile, another equally big company is allowed to go under for some seemingly indiscernible reason. I am certain sleazy politics and cronyism had no part to play in all of this.

    Meanwhile, businesses and banks that acted wisely and responsibly during this era, will be rewarded with exorbitantly increased taxes and government 'regulation'. The cost of which is always passed on to the consumer eventually.

  108. AJ, 'big business' is not at odds with big government. When the barons of industry were up and coming in years past they did want the government to 'stay out of the way', let them do their thing, and 'let the market decide' (because the market, at that time, favored them). But when they become really large and lethargic they are expect the government to help beat down all newcomers who might grow into a threat.

    Could Henry Ford or Ransom Olds could have developed their applied technologies and thus their businesses in today's regulatory environment? It sure would've been a helluva lot harder.

    They are in bed together, make no mistake about that.

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