by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Haenel 311 target rifle.
This report covers:
- Today’s report
- RWS R10 Match Pistol pellets
- RWS Basic pellets
- H&N Finale Match Light pellets
- What about Gamo Match pellets?
- How about lead free pellets?
- How does it cock and load?
- Cocking effort
- Trigger pull
- Summary
If you were expecting me to disassemble the Webley Hurricane today, I’m sorry. Yes, it is a great Friday subject that would give you lots to talk about, but if I run into trouble I might not have time to fix it and get the blog published on time. So today we are looking at the Haenel 311 target rifle again.
Today’s report
I will report on the rifle’s velocity with three pellets. I’ll also tell you how hard it is to cock, and I have a video to show how that is done. I’ll also cover the other things I normally do when we test velocity.
Probable velocity is low
I know going into the test that the 311 isn’t powerful. I will therefore select lighter pellets to test. Also, since this is a target rifle I’m going to use wadcutters, only. I wouldn’t shoot domes at a target unless there was a special reason. Let’s get started.
RWS R10 Match Pistol pellets
The first string is revealing. I oiled the piston seal when I wrote the last report, which was a full week ago. I knew the oil had time to soak into the piston seal, but look at the velocities I saw with the 7-grain R10 Match Pistol pellet.
Shot……Vel
1………459
2………452
3………462
4………467
5………470
6………476
7………485
8………491
9………488
10……..491
11……..494
12……..494
13……..490
14……..496
15……..498
16……..489
17……..499
This is why owning a chronograph is so important. If I had just taken the first 10 shots the average would be 474 f.p.s. and the spread would be from 452 to 491 — a difference of 39 f.p.s. After seeing what was happening I chose to start the string at shot 8 and finish at shot 17. Those 10 shots averaged 493 f.p.s. and the spread went from 488 to 499 f.p.s. — a difference of 11 f.p.s. That’s a pretty big difference, don’t you think?
It seems this 311 needs a lot of shots to get up to speed. I don’t suppose that will affect things at 10 meters too much, but just to be sure I will start by firing at least 8 shots before I shoot any groups. I can refine the sight picture during those shots.
Now that the rifle seems up to speed I think it’s safe to just record the next pellets as they occur. But I will keep an eye on the velocities, just to be sure.
RWS Basic pellets
RWS Basic pellets also weigh 7 grains. They averaged 473 f.p.s. from the 311. The spread went from 466 to 482 — a difference of 16 f.p.s.
H&N Finale Match Light pellets
H&N Finale Match Light pellets weigh 7.87 grains, so we expect them to be slower. In the 311 they averaged 453 f.p.s. The spread went from a low of 429 to a high of 459 f.p.s. That’s a whopping 30 f.p.s. difference.
What about Gamo Match pellets?
I told you in Part one that in this Haenel 311 Gamo Match pellets had shot the smallest 10 meter group I have ever shot. And my check group was also small. But when I went to the tin I saw that there aren’t many left. I tested 5 of them and got the following.
Shot……Vel
1………468
2………473
3………478
4………480
5………467
I also placed a call to Pyramyd AIR, who is currently swamped with a volume of orders greater than their recent holiday traffic. I was able to get them to mail me a single tin of Gamo Match pellets from their box of dented tins so I will be able to complete the testing. A normal order would be delayed by the time it takes them to process, on top of the additional time it takes the shipper to deliver. Fortunately the US Postal Service is on top of things.
How about lead free pellets?
I will give lead free pellets some consideration. I don’t want to jinx the test now by jamming up the barrel, but I may try them at the end of the accuracy test.
How does it cock and load?
Several of you asked me to show you how the 311 cocks. Here is a short video.
Cocking effort
That short bolt requires 35 lbs. of force to cock. It feels like more because of where it is located.
Trigger pull
The trigger is two-stage. Stage one is immeasurable — less than 2 ounces. Stage two breaks crisply at 15 ounces. It is a good trigger and, though it is adjustable, I have no plans to do so.
Summary
That’s how the 311 is performing. Next we test accuracy. I can’t wait!
Everyone,
There is no explanation for this one. It was properly scheduled, but just did not publish.
B.B.
BB,
There is no explanation for thjisd (this) one. It was properly scheduled, but just did not publish.
Sorry. I couldn’t help myself. 😉
RR,
What are you talking about? 😉
B.B.
B B,
Enough there to whet the appetite for more of your 311 report.
I had a brief go with my own 311 yesterday but I only had some fairly heavy RWS Superfields to hand. I did manage to shoot a couple of decent groups despite the trigger not being to my liking. As I could not find a srewdriver with a fine enough head to adjust it on the day, further experimentation will have to wait.
Its a rifle with great shooting manners and when I get the trigger properly sorted I may try the Haenel in a 6yd postal comp that I am involved with. I know 7grn Meisters work well but I will be following your pellet accuracy testing closely.
Regards,
Drew
BB,
Yes, that first string is interesting. Fine job on the video! Without looking at Part 1 (I did give it a quick scan) but why were you looking to go inside on this one? I did see where you mentioned the safety being buggered.
Chris
Chris,
I have no intention of going inside the 311.
B.B.
BB,
My mistake. “If you were expecting me to disassemble the Webley Hurricane today,…..”.
You have the dubious honor of being the first thing I read every morning,…. no coffee infusion yet. 😉
Chris
Chris,
After I check all the latest comments I’m making the coffee and starting on the Hurricane.
B.B.
BB,
Nice. You have to have a soft spot in your heart for these old target rifles.
It also brings to the frontal lobes the question of whether the new ones are really that much better. If my rememberer is working properly, a young lady won the 2000 Pan Am games with a FWB 601.
I know I am messing up, but the new match air rifles and air pistols may be more “ergonomic” and the steps to prepare each for firing is most certainly less taxing than with the old gals, but are they more accurate? Look at Part 1.
I am not a competitor, except maybe with myself and occasionally with my grandson. To win in today’s top matches requires you to have the latest and greatest. There is athletics involved in these sports. If you do not believe me try and shoot an entire match. It is not a test of skill. It is a test of how well you maintain your skill level throughout the competition. To burn energy and end concentration on the target and divert it to the cocking and loading of the airgun can cost.
The preceding was the opinion of RidgeRunner. If you do not like his opinion, go get one of your own. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.
RR,
The constant change is because people in sales believe that every few years a product has to be modernized to continue selling. I’m sure glad the folks at Quacker Oats don’t know that!
B.B.
BB,
Quaker or Quacker?
Chris
Chris,
Quacker. Quaker Oats are old and disgusting! 🙂
B.B.
Quacker Oats must certainly be just ducky to earn The BB Endorsement. What is interesting – to me anyway – is that I’m having a nice bowl of oatmeal as I read today’s post. That’s timing! Don’t neglect good nutrition as another of the tools we need use to guard our health and keep it.
Dinner with the help of Betty Trucker:
Kevin,
With Armadillo Almondine, Catserole and RATatouille! By Gag Gifts. A classic.
Michael
BB,
The thing to do is wait for the new model, not just the new year. Of course you then get all new wrong things in them which they will have to work out over the life of the model.
RidgeRunner,
As far as accuracy alone is concerned, my belief is that an in-shape FWB 300s or FWB 601 is on a par with today’s world-class 10 meter air rifles. I know that lock time and felt recoil compensators have improved over the years, but the improvements are probably pretty small.
Ergonomics on new ones get to be ever more adjustable to the shooter. Practically everything is adjustable, so the hold is as comfortable and repeatable as possible for each individual owner..
And then the most important part. Contemporary 10 meter air rifles are PCP and do not require the effort of cocking it 100 times (for men) or 60 times (for women) in an hour. So the physical demands on the shooter are significantly less with today’s PCP 10 meter models. That keeps heart rates down and breath more controllable.
Michael
Michael,
I will agree concerning the 601, but I am not quite sold on the 300. I believe there could likely be a minutiae of vibration, recoil, etc. that will cause issues. With the late 601, 602 and 603 they had a compensator for recoil.
Recoil?! Yes, it is there. I shot mine one day resting on bead bags made of old jeans. The only place I touched the rifle was the trigger. When it went off it slid back over 1/2″.
Now after a certain point, it is all on the shooter.
RR
I know a trick for accuracy on the FWB 300’s that I bet not many know.
Why have I kept it quiet for so long. Because I would of thought by now someone would of mentioned it. Or are they keeping it quiet too.
The barrel on the 300 actually has a inner barrel. The outside barrel is heavy duty like a bull barrel. But there is a inner barrel. That inner barrel actually can move in the outer barrel.
The trick is tighten up the inner barrel to the outer barrel. Guarentee you that you will have better accuracy. Its up to you to figure out how to get rid of the slop.
All I can say is it works.
GF1,
Really? You gonna’ be all like that? Why not just share it? Explain it? Sounds like some “top secret squirrel club” stuff ya’ got goin’ on there. Jeeeesssh! Heck,… make it believable and BB might even give you a go at a guest blog,…………. 🙂
😉 Chris
Chris
I already gave the info. Read my comment again.
You just need to figure out how you want to take up the space between the barrel and the outer barrel.
Sometimes I wonder about you.
Gunfun1,
I have no dog in this hunt: How about the expanding foam sealing and insulation in a can? Obviously not the full expansion stuff but the non warping stuff that so many people should have used ;^). It would automatically center the soda straw inside the false bull barrel.
shootski
Shootski,
See bottom of comments for a new question to you.
Chris
Shootski
It’s not much play. Probably about .007″ to .009″.
Read my reply to Chris.
Gunfun1,
Not even the thickness of a FAT human hair.
got it ;^)
shootski
Shootski
A little bit more than a fat human hair I’m sure. 🙂
Shootski,
It is not a soda straw. It is a legitimate high quality barrel itself. As I pointed out to GF1 below, The sleeve’s main purpose is to add weight to the front. There were some models that did not have that sleeve.
It can be used to help provide rigidity.
GF1,
Yes you did,… “The trick is tighten up the inner barrel to the outer barrel”.
And then you didn’t,… “Its up to you to figure out how to get rid of the slop.”
Chris
Chris
I just replied to Shootski above.
The play is only about .007″ to .009″. What I did is just put 2 drops of super glue down in the gap. Let it dry and no more movement.
And yes it did tighten the groups up to a already real accurate gun.
GF1,
That is better! 😉 Hopefully they (top secret squirrel club) will not invoke a permanent ban on you for spilling the beans. 😉
Chris
Chris
Already got that squirrel club thing taken care off. Ya know what I mean. 🙂
GF1,
The primary purpose of the outer sleeve is to give the front weight. Because of the extremely close tolerances, it can indeed help provide rigidity to the barrel when you remove the “slop”.
That is one of the “experiments” I wanted to do with a 300. I wanted to remove the sleeve, shorten the barrel (10″), recrown it and CF wrap the barrel for rigidity.
As far as keeping the secret quiet, I do not think most owners even know about it. Most of those 300s have been together so long you would have great difficulty removing the outer sleeve without damaging it.
Something else to think about is how many owners go through the effort of finding manuals for their 300s. How many take their 300s apart and spend hours studying the trigger assembly. Most try to get their hands on nice looking ones that have already had the seals and broken springs replaced. They collect them. Few really buy them as shooters.
I had an opportunity to buy a “One Hundredth Anniversary” FWB 300. It was gorgeous! It had a beautifully figured walnut stock with a silver commemorative medallion inlaid in the stock. The deep, rich bluing was immaculate. Very likely it had never really been shot. I even had the money at the time. I knew if I bought it, it was not going to be a safe queen and I would have ruined the value. It was not easy, but I passed.
RR
I would have to say if it was me I would of had to buy that gun. And I would of shot it too. And I don’t think that would of ruined the value by shooting it. The big problem I believe would be if the gun got scratched and such. Then it would take away from the value.
GF1,
If I handle it, it will get scratched and dinged.
RR
Yep I know but darn that would be a cool gun to own.
GF1
Oh yeah, there is a big part of me that regrets not doing so. However, it was a “collectors” item more than a shooters item. The price was far more than two nice 300s would have cost and shot no better than either.
I do not buy San Rafael Beemans for the exact same reason. When a brand new HW30 is several hundred dollars cheaper than a beat up San Rafael R7, duh. When the airgun is not better, why pay more? Relying on “value of a name” is too risky concerning investment. I paid $35 for a 1959 Daisy 99 when I could have bought it in a box for $175. That was a very expensive box if you ask me.
RR
Right. Everything has it’s time I suppose.
B.B.
Love the loading video. Seems like a great way to NOT have pellets fall in the grass. Gravity is your friend.
Thanks.
Stay safe everybody and stay sane,
-Yogi
B.B.,
Thank you for the short video. I had imagined it incorrectly. I thought that the bolt would require more effort to cock (even if you did say it was 35 pounds) and that the bolt barrel/arm connected to the handle would be visible when cocked.
Maybe wearing a light colored shirt for a background will make it easier to see dark colored objects being manipulated?
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Yes, a lighter shirt. With still photography you want a dark background to bring out detail in dark subjects, but apparently not in video. I’m still learning.
B.B.
Ridgerunner ,
You are correct a FWB600 series is still hard to beat . The FWB P70 and 700 PCP rifles used the same valve unit as the 600 series . I don’t believe the new guns are any better . A FWB300 , 600 series can run with PCPs in the accuracy department inherently. The catch is the Practical side there is much less fatigue shooting a PCP and You do not lose your NPOA in Prone . I like the 600 series. PCP accuracy and shoot-ability without the hassles of a PCP . My 2 cents for today
Gene Salvino
Gene,
I’m still thinking of that LGR. The Edge is being restored to new specifications, but I have all the parts to soup it back up again.
B.B.
Another option………..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AirForce-Air-Force-Edge-10m-Meter-Air-Rifle-177-cal-1500-pellets-included/153836624785?hash=item23d1609b91:g:mq4AAOSw2kleSzHw
Kevin,
That one comes without the rear sight.
B.B.
B.B.,
Rear sight????!!!! You don’t need no stinking rear sight.
Gene,
Yes, I “need” to get me another 300. I had my hands on two and let them slip away. I had a 601 at one time, but traded it off because I was afraid of scratching it.
I had to look up NPOA(natural point of aim) as I’m not a 3 position shooter.
BB,
The gun is hard to cock, huh (as he cocks it with two fingers). Show off! 🙂
BB,
For what it’s worth, my 311 gets 530 fps with 7 grain pellets; not a great difference. Enjoying this series.
Paul
Paul,
Wow! Thanks for that. I think if I keep at it I might get the R10s up to 510, but who knows?
B.B.
B.B.,
Gotta keep shooting it a lot, quickly, to warm it and build on that. Unfortunately the 311 does not invite rapid shooting.
I know the position one holds it provides inadequate leverage, but might that be offset by making it less hard-cocking elsewhere? What I’m wondering is, how helpful do you think it might be to fashion a cocking aid a la those for the BSA Scorpion? 7 or 8 inches of PVC pipe stuffed with pipe insulation or an old rag might do the trick.
Michael
“I know going into the test that the 311 isn’t powerful.”
B.B.,
True, but at least this report shows that it has sufficient velocity to punch good sharp holes at 10 meters with wadcutter pellets. That’s all it really needs.
Looking forward to the accuracy tesing,
dave
Dave,
Me, too! 🙂
B.B.
Ridgerunner ,
Check with Scott at Pilkington Competition . He gets allot of these on trade when teams go PCP . They are usually rough , but for blasting who cares !! I believe He reseals them before He resells them if they need it , that’s worth it alone . (931) 924-3400
Gene
Gene
He will also sell used parts off of some of the 300’s he gets. I have got parts from him in the past for some of the FWB 300’s I have had. Very reasonable priced at that. And always seems to take time to talk. I’m sure he’s a busy guy too. So thats kind of cool.
Gene,
I called him the other day. He said he did not have any at the moment.
Thanks. 😉
Gene,
How about a 600 multi-pump with a check valve? Is that possible?
Brent
Brent,
Yes, it is possible. For a while there was a company that was making a check valve to install in an Izzy 46 or 46M. Somewhere I have the info about that valve, how it is made, etc., but it really is not practical. With the Izzys is works because they are very heavily constructed. However, the pump arm on the 600 series a stamped metal. They would not stand up to the strain of the repeated over pressure. There are some other parts that would likely say “we’re not happy” and then you would have to spend a fortune to get it fixed.
Leave the world of the multi-pumps to the multi-pumps and the world of the SSPs to the SSPs. You and they will be much happier.
GunFun1 ,
Scott is very good to talk to , so is Buck , His gunsmith . Great source of parts for those old FWB guns.
Gene
Gene
Scott is who I always talk to. He’s always done me right. Would like to talk to Buck but Scott always got me straightened out so never had to go there I guess.
And thinking about it. I never thought about asking if he would sell one of the working 300’s he has. That would be great for someone looking to get one. I’m happy with the one I have. And by the way I was the one that bought the ones from RidgeRunner. Maybe RR can work something out with Scott. Would like to see RR get another one. They are definitely cool guns.
GF1 and Gene,
Scott is where I obtained those 300s. He received a large shipment of old club guns and sold them off as is for a nice price. I bought two. I wish I had bought about five. I might still have a couple.
RR
I was wondering where you got them from.
And I wish you would of bought 5 too. 🙂
Me too. I would probably still have a couple.
Brent ,
Possibly , just not economically feasible . Some kind of chamber with a check valve would have to be made . Keep in mind this is a 10m gun that is engineered to operate at a certain pressure , if You exceed that the valve and striker mechanisms would have to be changed/altered also . A FWB 600 is excellent as it stands , in my personal opinion I could only see someone screwing up a good gun , just like cars that have been modified / tuned and never run well again !! I see allot of hacked up mangled guns from shade tree attempts .
Gene
B.B.,
By “I will give synthetic pellets some consideration.” I hope you meant lead free pellets. Such as:
/product/predator-gto-177-cal-5-5-grains-wadcutter-lead-free-200ct?p=930
Or
/product/h-n-match-green-pellets-177-cal-5-25-grains-wadcutter-lead-free-500ct?p=1108
I look forward to that test.
Some have indicated that when switching from shooting lead pellets to lead free pellets the barrel should be cleaned to get the best accuracy. I wonder if that matters in a low velocity air gun. – Don
Shootski,
What is your opinion of using this tech. to make a longer, bullet shaped, high BC projectile for PCP’s.
https://www.ptonline.com/articles/now-they-want-plastics-to-be-heavy
It is a short, quick read. Towards the bottom, ammunition application is mentioned. The idea,… make the projectile 2-3 longer, use material that is 1/2-1/3 in density, yet still keep the same weight. Or, decrease weight some, keep the length, but because it is lighter, fps can gained.
With you shooting your big bores, I thought this might be some interest to you. It seems that we as airgunners want to shoot more bullet shaped/heavier projectiles,….but,… quickly hit a wall with fps/stability. This tech. allows all of the benefits of longer projectile but also the ability to keep (or decrease) weight,….. all by adjusting the specific gravity/density of the material.
Chris
Chris,
Now you are entering into my realm. I design control systems for polymer production equipment.
To an extent this will work. This is what the Dust Devils are. One of the issues will be that as the speed increases, so does the heat. As the heat increases, the polymer becomes softer. You will start leaving a residue in the barrel.
Another issue is it will never be as heavy as lead. There are some experiments of using solid copper or copper jacketed steels and such in firearms, but you really want something softer for airguns.
Keep thinking on it.
RR,
I did some poking around on different sites after posting. There is the frangibles that are made to shatter that can be?/are? lighter. These however seem confined to traditional pellet?, bb and bullet shapes. Plus, I am (not) interested if a projectile shatters or not upon impact.
Slugs/bullets for air guns are short and squatty, especially in the .25 and under category. Big bores have some longer ones, but are generally rather blunt in profile not to mention the added weight and lower fps. BC?
There is tin and tin/lead mix. But, have you ever seen any slug maker (for airguns) keep the weight the same and elongate the projectile into a (sleek), high BC bullet? No, they go lower in weight, keep the shape the same (pellet) and boast increased fps.
Plastic or plastic mixes may or may not be the answer. The article I linked showed very high density capabilities/formulations. Without reading again,…. approaching steel density. Heat? I don’t know? Would it be a problem? Plastics might offer lower friction (friction = heat). Plus, we do not have the heat from powder burn/combustion.
From the article: These specialty materials have densities of up to 15 g/cc yet still have the moldability of plastics. HGCs are far more dense than existing plastics—e.g., 40% glass-filled nylon has a specific gravity (SG) of just 1.46—and are weighty enough to compare with aluminum (2.7 SG), zinc (6.64), steel (7.6), and lead-antimony (11.35). So, it does sound as if “never heavier than lead” may not be the case.
Chris
Chris,
More complicated arrangement would be using lead driving bands to mitigate the plastic coating the barrel.
Siraniko
Siraniko
The link Chris posted from what I gather the bullet or pellet would be more hard like lead or lead free pellets we already have. I don’t think it will be soft like normal plastic like nylon or something.
Chris
Maybe the plastic would offer better engagement to the rifling. Maybe they would be more accurate. Even with the pellet shape. And maybe that would help also with a bullet shape out of a air gun.
You have seen these before haven’t you. They are similar in a sense to what we are talking about.
/product/rws-hyper-velocity-22-cal-11-grains-pointed-lead-free-100ct?p=526
And thinking more about the article you posted the link to. The bullet or pellet would probably be more like lead than plastic I’m thinking. I bet a pellet shape with a air gun velocity under 900 fps probably would work. The faster velocity would probably start loading up the rifling.
GF1,
I have seen them. A bit gimmicky I think, the reviews were not very good and you are counting on that sabot separating cleanly.
Chris
Chris
I don’t think they are suppose to separate. I think the plastic is along for the whole ride.
I kind of think of them how the 25 and 30 mm armor piercing rounds work that we use to make at work.
When the metal part contacts the target it penetrates and the outer plastic shell in the case of the pellet I showed in the link then separates and stays on the outside of the target.
Chris USA,
WHAT IS WRONG WITH ELEMENTAL LEAD? (Intentional Yelling!)
ACTUALLY, nothing!
Other than Gold at a SG 19.32, Lead at 11.35o is the next “lightest” in line. The alloy of Lead-Antimony must be lighter than what was stated in the piece you referenced. Unless you want to go into the more dangerous isotopes such as DU depleted Uranium or to shoot, Gold pellets/bullets the ammo that would make the Lone Ranger blush. Lead (PB) is perfect. Lead is reasonably safe with proper procedures and capture, retention, or remediation. How can shootski say that? California (and some other “GREEN” idiologically corrupt locations) say(s) they know IT is a known carcinogen and dangerous to just look at!!!! You know the answer to that!
Without going into the balistic science Lead is the answer to…ease and quality of cast or swaged manufacture. LEAD provides great internal Balistics: obturation, lubricity, low fouling; great external Balistics: high BCs, sectional density, form factor; great terminal Balistics on paper targets, steel targets and prey.
Quality Control in the manufacturer process, muzzle velocity, momentum and twist generating the correct Revolution Per Second [RPS] are the answers not adding un-needed manufacturing complexity, reliability degredation, cost, and life span reduction.
Big Bore Bullets have a large Meplat for the terminal effect on prey.
shootski
Shootski,
I was (not) concerned with being “green” at all. Let me put it more simply,…. why don’t we (airgunners) see a .25 bullet like this (profile)?
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1165324457 or even longer.
Why don’t you have big bore air gun bullets like that? The reason, from what I gather,.. would be that it would be too heavy and too slow. At that point, something other than pure lead will need to be used to ever attain a bullet profile like that and have any kind of good speed.
I guess that a sleek, high BC profile bullet for air-gunning is what I am asking for.
Chris
Chris
It probably won’t have enough velocity from most air guns to make it stable in flight.
I’m thinking it will tumble at normal air gun velocities.
It might work at air gun velocities if you can get the rpm up on the bullet though.
GF1,
Here is 2 articles that BB has done,…
/blog/2014/09/big-bore-bullets-part-1/
/blog/2014/09/big-bore-bullets-part-2/
Maybe I should read them? 😉 While not exactly addressing what I am asking (maybe?) I am sure there is useful information there.
Meanwhile,…. BB is rolling his eyes and thinking to himself,….. “Geeesh! Do I need to cover this,….. AGAIN?!” 😉
Chris
Chris
Yep I remember both reports.
Gunfun1,
Yup!
shootski
Chris USA,
I kind of suspected you weren’t clueless on the GREEN issues with Lead ammo=Shooting=EVIL=scarry=Thumper/Bambi=killers.
There are all to many folks that read this blog who need to know that the Lead ammunition we use is SAFE when proper procedures are followed. YES! Recover from Range, traps or prey and recycle your Lead. Don’t spray it out of scatter guns or repeating airguns where most of it misses the target/trap. If you hunt DO NOT take the shot if you don’t believe you are 99.9% certain of a kill. Select you ammo to not do pass through.
Stalk CLOSER next time!
END of RANT!
You mean like some of these: http://mrhollowpoint.com/22-cal-to-375-cal–balls.html
or these: https://hunters-supply.com/ammo/pelletsbullet-c-27.html?osCsid=1ov70d695h1o4gfnir4maegpf6&osCsid=1ov70d695h1o4gfnir4maegpf6
Some of these are are also in my ammo supply room: http://mrhollowpoint.com/40-cal-to-50-cal.html
https://nielsenspecialtyammo.com/
and more!
But…yes there is a but and another but at least. Full power shots? one or two…maybe four or five (.308) at 3,800 PSI at just (900+) under transonic velocities.
The other but is cost…not even the very most Premium pellets come close to those kind of cost per shot. One of the reasons i don’t plink very often. EVERY pull of the trigger counts when you are hurling that kind of cash downrange!
HTH : )
shootski
Shootski,
Thank you putting that together. All saved for future reference. Yes, there is some in that mix that fits the long/sleek profile.
Chris
Chris,
I am glad he showed you those. I was fixing to enter rant world again.
Most of the bullets today are made by “the small guys”. JSB has been working with FX and Matt Dubber developing .22 bullets and barrels. H&N is starting to get in on it. Soon they will be offering other calibers also.
I anticipate that soon most airgun companies will offer two versions of their powerful PCPs. One will have a fast twist rate for bullets and the other will have a slow twist rate for pellets.
RR
I believe your right. I hope the air gun manufacturers do get more involved in the bullet shooting air guns.
One day when they get it sorted out better I may have to give it a try. But for now I’ll just be watching to see what happens.
RidgeRunner,
At you service!
Now we have two reasons to wash our hands more often.
be well,
shootski
RR,
Donnie Reed over at Barker Air Guns did a video comparing several different slugs. You may find it interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=14&v=9vlQuaAFBIo&feature=emb_logo
Geo
Off topic:
I just noticed that the 2020 Texas Airgun Show website has been updated. Looks like the show is June 27th/28th. Same venue/location as last year. I’m sure some of you knew, but this is the first I’ve seen.
Really hoping it holds and isn’t affected by the coronavirus. This is the break we need, and something to look forward to! I’m encouraged it’s at the end of June. Gives some time for thngs to stabilize, and summer heat to set in. Coronaviruses tend to wane in summer heat. Especially Texas summer heat.
StarboardRower
StarboardRower,
I tend to wane in Texas summer heat, too! 🙂
B.B.
B.B.,
If I remember correctly If you were wax you would flat melt! Or maybe that’s melt flat?
And you can’t call it a dry heat in most of Texas other than way out in the high Western part of the state. Corpus Christy down to Brownsville was like having a Wet Sauna just a step outside your door from April into late October!
shootski
I remember a friend telling me that because of all of the rice paddies, the skeeters were horrible down that way.
RidgeRunner,
It has been some time but i remember the rice paddies to the North toward Victoria from Corpus Christi. I remember the Rattlers on the warm runways at night more than the skeeters! When we did night Field Carrier Landing Practice if we were at the LSO Cart we had .38s to take the Rattlers out. Lots of way BIG poisonous toads in the ditches too!
shootski
Hi BB,
I hadn’t used my Hatsan 135 QE Vortex (Gas Piston) Air Rifle in about a year. I was shooting it yesterday and the velocity is down from 872fps with JSB 14.35gr pellets to about 780fps with the same pellets. I tried applying some silicone grease to the breech seal but it didn’t help. The breech seal didn’t look stellar (it had one rough area where air could possibly escape), so I ordered some new breech seals from HatsanUSA that should arrive sometime this week. If it’s not the breech seal, could it be that the piston is starting to lose pressure? What do you do if the gas piston starts losing pressure? Any other things you could recommend besides a new breech seal and silicone grease applied to the seal?
I bought it new in August 2016.
Thanks,
Doug
Doug
Maybe BB will say different but put a couple drops of silicone oil in the transfer port. If you have to cock the gun to get to the transfer port do it and put about 5 drops in the transfer port hole. Put the safety on and stand the gun in the corner for about 5 minutes with the butt down on the floor. Then after the 5 minutes load a pellet and shoot the gun some then chrony it.
If the gun still feels the same to cock as it use to its probably the piston seal that we just lubed being dry.
Oh and you can test to see if the breech seal is leaking by laying a piece of tissue paper over the beech and shoot the gun. If the tissue moves when you shoot you have a breech seal leak. Let us know what happens if you try it.
Doug,
If I am not mistaken, the Vortex piston is charged with air and can be refilled and adjusted.
I am certain they have a special probe to do such and can give you the recommended fill pressure. Warning: Do not overfill the piston. You will not exceed a higher power level and you risk damaging the piston seals and will very likely destroy the end seal.
RR,
Air? Not Nitrogen?
And refillable? I don’t think they have one that owners can fill, do they? That was their plan, but have they implemented it yet? The web site says this week, but not yet.
B.B.
Doug,
I think the breech seal might work the best.
B.B.
RR
One of the older Hatsans I had came with a air ram. Don’t know if it was a vortex or not though. But it did have a spot to fill it.
It was back when RDNA use to comment. I think he got the gun or maybe Buldawg did. Can’t remember right now. I know I had a spring gun and a gas ram Hatsan back then.
Is that what your talking about. Or the one that fell through that BB was testing. Maybe that is what BB is remembering.
Hi Doug,
Here’s a link to a YouTube video that shows how to fill the vortex gas ram:
https://airgun-video.search.yahoo.com/airgun-video/play;_ylt=Awr9CW3AsjRemtgAglLBGOd_;_ylu=X3oDMTByNWU4cGh1BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw–?p=hatsan+vortex+gas+piston+replacement&back=https%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%3Fp%3Dhatsan%2Bvortex%2Bgas%2Bpiston%2Breplacement%26ei%3DUTF-8%26_tsrc%3Dyfp-hrtab-s%26fp%3D1&fr=yfp-hrtab-s&turl=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOVP.9X53qAgASvSwVB2tiuhLxQEsDh%26amp%3Bpid%3DApi%26w%3D144%26h%3D77%26c%3D7&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DEZb7Es9Ypck&tit=Hatsan+vortex+gas+ram+part+2&l=879&vid=773fcd94e5a409d3a7fdd57daffe5176&sigr=11brrmrmb&sigb=136uguo51&sigt=10sh2rr86&sigi=12o1kspab
I have a Hatsan 95 vortex in .25 cal (3+ years old) I did some inside trigger work and put it back together. I shot a few pellets and then the gas ram lost all the air. I did not hear anything or feel anything abnormal, like leaking air. It sat for some time. 3 days ago I watched the video and took the stock off (There is no need to remove the gas ram to fill it). Then I used a hand pump with the Hatsan fill probe to fill up to 145 bar. One thing to keep in mind is the check valve in the ram will not tell you how much air is in there to begin with. There is a air release screw on the opposite side of the barrel. Best to empty the ram and then fill from empty to know how much you put in.
The Hatsan 125 sniper was used in the video. He states that it is marked inside that the max pressure for that model is 150 bar.
I don’t know what is recommended for the model 95, hence the 145 bar guess. I still need to chronograph it to see how it performs to previous numbers. Another reason to own a chronograph, i.e. not to overfill the gas ram and to test for leakage overtime.
If anyone knows what pressure to set the Hatsan model 95 Vortex gas ram to, it would be most appreciated.
Doug I hope this helps.
Thank you,
John Carlisle
Hey John,
That video was great! All the searching I did and that video never came up. It looks very doable. I should get my breech seals today or tomorrow and will see if the new breech seal solves my problem. If it doesn’t, I think I’ll try adding a few pounds to the gas ram. I didn’t know the fill probe could be used for that! Thoughtful engineering by Hatsan.
You’re right about the chrony…I would feel lost without it, with all of my air rifles.
Thanks,
Doug
Doug
Let us know how it works out. Hope you don’t do more than is needed.
Will be waiting to hear.
Hey guys,
I tried a new breech seal and it did not fix my problem. The Hatsan 135 is still down around 100fps from where it was a year ago, and it actually seemed to be losing more velocity as I continued to shoot it. The fact that it’s losing even more velocity as I shoot makes me think that the piston has a slow leak and even if I fill it up, it may continue to leak. Even though it may not work, I might try to pump it up a little bit some time this week.
Doug
Doug
If your gun still feels the same to cock I don’t think the cylinder needs air.
Did you try putting some silicone oil in the transfer port hole? That will lube the piston seal. Sounds to me like the piston seal is dry and letting air blow by when you shoot the gun.