by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
This report covers:
- Background
- A powerful breakbarrel rifle
- A new multi-pumpA hunting pellet
- Youth target pellet rifle
- You’re cookin’
- What’s this?
- Seen it all before
- Summary
How about a weekend of fun? I have a game for everyone. It came to me yesterday as I was writing the report about the Norma S-Target Match pellet. It occurred to me that was a long name for a pellet. So, what name would be better?
Background
There is a back story to today’s report. When I went to Fort Lewis, Washington, for ROTC Summer Camp in 1968, I spent several days in Vancouver, British Columbia, before reporting to camp. I was traveling with a buddy and we just wanted to see the sights up there. I remember seeing my first Canadian car — an Acadian Invader! It looked like a Pontiac to me, and when we saw a Beaumont, which was an upscale model, we knew that’s what it was. I have since learned that GM Canada used both Pontiac and Chevrolet platforms for what they made and sold to our northern cousins — eh!
That experience started me on a lifetime of pondering product names, and today I’d like us to generate some product names for airguns and related products. I’ll get you started.
A powerful breakbarrel rifle
Let’s pretend that we are the marketing team responsible to come up with a name for a new .25-caliber breakbarrel hunting rifle our company is about to bring out. It’s large, very powerful and extremely hard to cock. Here are the names the team has come up with so far.
Harvester 30 (for 30 foot-pounds in .25 caliber — from the president of the company)
Super Schuetzen (from old Dan the engineer, who’s been with the company 35 years)
YZP25 (from Carl, who thinks letters and numbers are better than words)
Ulysses 25 (from Donna, who thinks the rifle is too hard to cock)
Can you do better?
A new multi-pump
We have just sourced a new multi-pump air pistol from Taiwan. It’s .177 only and very accurate. It has a good 3-pound trigger and crisp adjustable sights. The manufacturer calls it the Brilliant Light. What should we call it?
A hunting pellet
We just struck a deal with a Brazilian pellet manufacturer. They have a high-tech .22-caliber hollowpoint hunting pellet that expands to twice its diameter at just 500 f.p.s. We have seen it demonstrated and it does work, so we will be selling it in the U.S. It is a domed pellet that has cuts in the hollow dome that open immediately when meeting resistance. It flies like a dome and opens like a hollowpoint. In Brazil they call it the Mako Shark. Here are the team’s suggestions.
Donna wants to call it the Lotus22 because it opens like a flower.
Carl wants to call it the DQP22
The president wants to call it the Meg22
Dan wants to call it the 22 Expander
Oh, on this one the art department is limiting the number of characters in the name to 12, including spaces. That’s because the name has to fit on a label on the tin and be recognizable on a storeroom shelf.
Youth target pellet rifle
The company has just struck a deal to purchase the rights to the Air Venturi Bronco from Mendoza. We want to make the rifle easier to cock (by lengthening the barrel jacket), to slim down the stock considerably and install target-style sights — with a peep sight in the rear and a hooded front sight that takes replaceable inserts. The president of the company likes the Bronco’s two-blade trigger for both its safety and for its smooth release. The straight Bronco would sell to us for $95 if we commit to purchase 1,000. With a Mendoza peep sight, a hooded front sight and an adjustable trigger stop (just a screw through the triggerguard) that we will install until the Mendoza factory gets up to speed, our cost rises to $119.00. We have to add $40 to that cost for modifying the trigger stops in-house on the first 100 rifles, to give Mendoza time to gear up for it, but the decision has been made to amortize that expense across the first 1,000 sales.
The president has told our team that he sees this rifle as an upscale youth target rifle that can compete in the Student Air Rifle program (SAR). He plans on charging $175 to SAR competitors and clubs and $225 to the general public.
He wants a name that conveys quality, excellence and value. What do we call it?
The president also wants a name for the trigger.
You’re cookin’
Okay, that should get your creative juices flowing. Now, name the following products.
A 10-40X60 scope with a 34mm tube that has a mil-dot reticle with illuminated dots that the shooter controls. The shooter determines which dot gets illuminated. This scope is no longer than a 4-16, and just as bright at 40X as the 4-16 is at 16X.
A precharged pneumatic that has a huge air reservoir and a max fill pressure of 1,800 psi. In .177 caliber it fires JSB 10.34-grain domes at 950 f.p.s. and gets 60 shots per fill. The rifle weighs 8 lbs. without a scope, due to a type IV carbon fiber reservoir. There is no regulator but the balanced valve gives all 60 shots with a maximum 18 f.p.s. spread. Twenty-two and twenty-five calibers will follow if the .177 is successful. The projected price will be $1,200.
A new wadcutter pellet with a thin ring of lead around the edge of the nose. Testing has shown it to be hyper accurate in target air rifles that need pellets with heads sized 4.49mm to 4.52mm. It costs about double to produce, so they will be sold in trays of 200.
The new pellet with adaptable head sizes.
A bipod whose left leg holds up to 30 pellets and whose right leg detaches and contains a folding knife, Torx wrenches in sizes T6, T7 and T8, a ballpoint pen and scissors.
What’s this?
Now tell us what the following product names apply to.
- Eagle Claw
- Civet
- Torque release
- Restraint
- Bombard
- Momentum
- Hyperion
Seen it all before
In the late 1990s I became incensed when Crosman applied the name Blue Streak to a breakbarrel rifle in the Benjamin line. In fact today the name is so confused there are people selling Benjamin-Sheridan 397 rifles on eBay. Tell me that isn’t wrong!
Dennis Quackenbush called his kit to make an outside lock air rifle the Amaranth. That one fooled everyone.
And Walther used the name LGV for their new line of breakbarrel sporting rifles a few years ago when most of us silverbacks knew it as a breakbarrel target rifle from the ’70s.
Summary
I know some of you will enjoy doing this exercise, the point of which is to demonstrate that it isn’t easy coming up with product names that convey a sense of the product. Let’s see what you can do.
Ach, gotta love branding!
I think the first question has nothing to do with the individual products (which are coming from different OEMs), but everything to do with the company’s own brand recognition, naming convention, and supplier relations.
With a more involved partnership (like Beeman and Weihrauch), there are enough models to think about how the entire group of related products should be branded/marketed.
That kind of theme/group branding also helps if the company ends up offering several similar products – a problem I had with GM cars in the 90s, and with Crosman air rifles now – What’s the difference between a Tyro, a Phantom, and a Raven? What about the TR77NPS, Incursion Nitro Piston, Shockwave, Fury Nitro Piston, Summit Ranger NP2, Silver Fox NP, Vantage NP, and Fire NP?
A few other points I’d throw on to the considerations:
1) Search optimization – Using extremely common words or combinations of words in a product name makes it very hard to find, especially if they’re terms already associated with shooting in general or air guns in particular.
2) Using hard to spell words makes it harder to find
3) Deliberately misspelling words in the name may make it hard to find if auto-correct fixes it, and makes it harder for someone to tell someone else about it verbally since they’ll need to pass along the deliberate misspelling as well
4) Also best to avoid naming products after groups of people – something Volkswagen does for some reason (the Air Force Texan maybe being the exception that proves the rule) – associations and opinions change. Better to avoid potential PR issues entirely.
Regarding some of the items, it would be interesting to see if related firearms products would be willing to license their own branding – specifically the Savage Accutrigger for the dual blade trigger, since I think it’s the only one of the dual-blade rifle trigger systems to have wide name recognition – and it is a brand rather than a single system – I seem to recall that the centerfire guns, rimfire bolt-action rifles, and rimfire semi-auto rifles all work a bit differently.
There are few memorable gun names – many of the most famous are either acronyms in their own right (FAL, BAR, , Model number/model years (1911, 700, 870), military designation (G3, MP5, AKM) or named after the designer/manufacturer (Uzi, Ross).
Cheers,
Nathan
Nathan,
You have reminded me of the rock group called the Oneders. People called thjem the oh-NEE-Ders and their guitar player quipped, “Hey, that’s the aw-Ned-ers!” The name of the group was really the Wonders. 😉
BB
I can remember when the group INXS came out. DJ’s called them One Nexus, I, N, X, S and others. The name of the group we now know is In Excess.
Kevin
I always knew the group like you said in your last sentence. In Excess.
Maybe different parts of the country the DJ’s and listeners called them the other ways you mentioned. I can see that happening very easy when language is involved.
Gunfun,
I have pretty much decided on AA 10.34 pellets for the Gewher 54. They are amazing! Only about a 2 1/2 inch drop at 55 yards. I was able to hit a 1 1/2 inch spinner six times in a row at 55 yards the other day shooting from a rest. The gun and the pellets are amazing! The shooter, not so much.
Brent
Brent
I say the shooter is pretty good. 🙂
Glad they are working for you. I have had good luck with them in many different guns.
Been having a couple busy weeks and I haven’t been shooting as much as I usually do. And worked last night overtime which is my Saturday on 3rd shift. Came home and went to sleep. Just got up and I plan on spending the day shooting. I hope.
The oh-NEE-ders?
Didn’t they have a hit with a cover version of Adagio from Spartacus?
Yours truly,
Barry Cryer
iain,
So YOU’RE the other guy!
Nice to meetcha! 🙂
BB
I went to a college where the nerds could talk in complete sentences using only acronyms, hahaha…..
-Y
“A rose by any other name would smell as sweet”*.
*-some guy named Bill
-Y
Right off I know “Eagle Claw” is fishing hooks and other tackle and “Hyperion” is tooling and materials from carbide. “Torque release” rings a bell but I can’t really place it and Googling wouldn’t be fair, I’d guess.
The powerful springer should be called the “Bat’leth”. As for the names for the other “new” products, I’ll get back with you after I’ve had more time (and some shuteye). Gonna be an interesting weekend comment section, I bet!
Half
Half,
OH NO! A Trekie!
Half,
Well, now I’m rolling on the floor, laughing my *** off! 🙂
BB
BB,
We are going to see some very interesting names this weekend. There are going to be many airgun marketing departments that will owe you their gratitude.
I myself was quite annoyed when TCFKAC gave one of their break barrels the name Benjamin Rogue.
RR,
You know, when I wrote this thing I actually thought of that. Something good may come from it.
BB
BB,
I only name things I have an attachment to so Gewher 54 for the Diana 54 is the only thing I can come up with 🙂
Brent
BB,
This should be a good one. Limited time for pondering this AM,.. but will be checking back.
Chris
Chris,
You didn’t come back!
No matter. I do have a question concerning your Maximus. With the regulator, are you able to increase the pressure in your reservoir? That may require changing out the valve screws. I am going to have to dig into that.
RR,
Oh, but I did come back. By that time, comments had dropped off the “Comment RSS”. Plus, there was plenty of name offerings already on the table. Could I do better? Maybe. Maybe not.
On naming in general, the makers should research the country they plan to market in. Some Greek wind god means nothing here in the U.S., as one small example. But, that might mean stamping changes on the action, in the case of guns,…. or different labels, in the case of pellets,… all targeted per country.
As for the Maximus, the reg. pressure is set at 1450 as I recall. I fill to 3000 or slightly under, like 2800. The valve is seeing no increased pressure (beyond the stock 2000),.. so am not sure what you are asking or are concerned about. I chose the option to leave the gauge in, so it now reads the regulated pressure.
The reg. is marked in bar. My notes indicate it is set a 96 bar. The gauge reads about 1550.
Did you get a new reg. and are ready to put it in?
Let me know if you have any more questions.
Chris
Chris,
So I guess my Mjölnir doesn’t make it here, even with all of The Avengers fans? Many products have different names in different countries, cars as an example. BB even gave an example with the air pistol from Taiwan, Brilliant Light.
My concern with the screws in the Maximus valve is there is more force applied to the regulator which would push on the valve, but the gauge block is between the regulator and the valve. If I go the option of removing the gauge, I may have to change the screws in the valve. No, I have not acquired a regulator as of yet, but I do see that in the future.
I have done no performance modifications as of yet because I wish to establish and record my base with the chronograph and such. Time and the weather have not been my friend. Removing the guage block would give me more HPA volume or drilling it out some could increase plenum volume. Hmmm.
I am positive my first modification will be pulling the barrel and chamfering and polishing the lead in. I can feel two “catches” when I push a pellet home. using a powerful light, I can see the barrel edge in the receiver block and I think I can see where a small burr on the transfer port is cutting lead off the pellet. Not good. After that I will put a hammer spring adjuster on it and play with that for a bit. I am going to try to keep a really good log on this air rifle along with the affects various modifications have on it.
Most all of the mods out there that have been done to many Discos and Maxs, TCFKAC finally got a “round tuit” and did with the Fortitude. If they were to take a little more time with them, they would be awesome. A little polishing here and there, maybe a new barrel, etc. With just a little bit more, they could take the market.
That is what I want to do with my Max. When I am done tinkering with it, you are going to have to bring your ‘A’ game to outperform it.
RR,
I just tried to pull up 2 saved diagrams that have always worked and they won’t load (to get a better picture in my head),… but if you say there might be an issue, I will take your word for it.
In all of my prep. searches, I do not recall anyone mentioning that concern.
Yup,.. keep good notes. Sounds like a fun project. Keep us all (me) posted to what you do and when, along with pics/links if needed.
I get 30 shots with the last being the same as the first as set up now. 8-11 fps spread of the string depending on where measured. It is my grab and go squirrel gun,.. not a woods walker (of course it would be great for that), but rather a seen one out front or under the car type pester. They leave me alone (car, etc.),.. I leave them alone. I have never chronied past 30 shots, but I am sure it will do much more before falling off the reg..
Chris
Chris,
I will be sure to keep you up with my tinkering. 😉
On the other hand ….
Some names that an airgun should ‘NOT’ be called, for example, “Invader Auto” when it’s a semi-auto. I may look into that and see if it can actually be converted into a full-auto. Usually doesn’t take much when you are half way there already.
And why bother to label something ‘Black Synthetic’ when there is no wood option ?
OK …It could be black metal, or … wood that was stained, painted or rubber coated. Plastic is history except for toys. I hope.
Trying to incorporate the intended, or ‘alternate’ use of the real steel copy would help. Like the name “Persuader” for a shotgun. I like that one. Or Intimidator for a particularly mean black military looking gun.
For the expanding pellet … ’22 Big Shot’
For the break barrel … ‘PowerPunch 25′
For the multi pump pistol … .’177-MPP Pistol’ ( Multi-Pump-Precision Pistol )
For the wadcutter … ‘177 Hyper Hit TP’ ( Target Pellet )
For the youth rifle … ‘SAR SharpShooter’
For the bipod … ‘Bug Out’ BP or ‘Hiker BP’
For the scope …. ‘MD BrightSpot’
For the PCP … ‘LP Tanker PCP’ ( Low Pressure )
Bob M
Bob,
You actually did it! Good for you. I like the MPP pistol. And the Hyper Hit TP might actually work.
Best of all is the 22 Big Shot. Someone is going to use that, I have no doubt!
BB
BB
One handle keeps coming to mind. “Staged Trigger” for the Bronco trigger. It reminds me of the name “Wear Dated” given to carpets made from a chemical company’s yarn.
Deck
Deck,
Oh, oh! That’s a good name! 🙂
BB
I think, in all fairness to marketing teams’ past efforts, and with an eye toward some semblance of truth in advertising, I will promote ‘Carl’s’ idea. I give you-
BS-22E-Expando- pellet
BS-25BBHILPTW- Broke Back Hey, It Lasted Past The Warranty -break barrel
BS-177DC- Der Clankin’- pistol
BS-177DYLTP- Did You Like The Package- wadcutter
BS-177YWDRTCWBAER- Yeah, We Didn’t Realize The Coaches Wouldn’t Buy An Economical Rifle- youth rifle
BS-BPKSV- BiPod Kitchen Sink Version- bipod
BS-GLOWER- Good Looks, Otherwise Wrong Eye Relief- scope
But Wait!!! There’s More!!! Stay tuned for more thrilling announcements about our BS lineup!
Okay, boys,
We’re on a roll!
BB
Hahah! Good ones. Right now, my choice is “PIAK” for the expanding, hunting pellet. As in “Politically Incorrect Animal Killer.” Sounds “punchy,” in an Eastern European way. Another possibility is “TWC” – “The Wound Channeler.” Suspect the legal/marketing departments in some companies might find fault with these.
Will see if a Fawlty mind can come up with any more unlikely helpful brand names. This is a fun exercise indeed.
I’m not sure if the Umarex Ubique is more suited to a flat-head match pellet or the actual target rifle.
iain
.25 spoinger – Mjölnir
The only reason that I can come up with that Donna is still a member of the marketing team is she is involved with the boss.
RR
🙂
For air guns and pellets I like simple names like thumper or pin point or piercer or flat liner or the laser. Then there is the expander. As I said the names could be used for either or airguns or pellets.
Now those were in line with thinking now days.
Now as for the past I still like number names like the 54 or 300 or the hw50 or 30 or even the muscle cars. Like the Z28 or GT40 or the LS6 Chevelle or the 442 or W30 and W31 and so many others.
But here’s the the thing. If the product is popular and good any of those names will be remembered. Well even with products that don’t do so well.
So it’s not really all just in the name sort of. Some even get nick names which sometimes is a good thing and sometimes it’s not.
I’m guessing even growing up you and others that you knew and hung with ended up with nick names. Remember Hawkeye and Radar O’Riley from Mash then the Fonze on Happy Day’s.
And what is a name? Heck look at some of the User names on the blog.
Posted this a couple days ago, but it was pretty late, so I didn’t see any replies:
Completely off topic, and this question may have been covered earlier this year.
Now that I have all the disclaimers out of the way, are there going to be any airgun shows this year? Malvern, AR? Findlay, OH? Columbus, OH? Texas?
Motorman
St. Louis, MO
Motorman,
I haven’t heard from any of them yet.
Cloud9?
BB
Findlay, Ohio- June 12th
Would that 10-40X60 optic by any chance be part of that company’s new “AimTamer” line of 32mm scopes?
Half
Half,
Either that or the “Wiggle Stop” line.
BB
Make the multi-pump pistol , the “Throttle” and the easily expanding pellet, the ”Biscuit”, as in, “ Expands in game like a can o’ biscuits ! “. UK marketing would have to be different because of the whole “ biscuit vs cookie “ controversy.
Half
B.B.,
Some really fun names so far!
Great topic for this weekend. Straight from the catalog of The Old World Airgun Company:
A 10-40X60 scope with a 34mm tube that has a mil-dot reticle with illuminated dots that the shooter controls:
Serutan Sixty; Natures Iron Sight for old eyes!
A precharged pneumatic that has a huge air reservoir and a max fill pressure of 1,800 psi. In .177 caliber it fires JSB 10.34-grain domes at 950 f.p.s. and gets 60 shots per fill:
Jetsonardoni 950 multi-caliber system.
A new wadcutter pellet with a thin ring of lead around the edge of the nose. Testing has shown it to be hyper accurate in target air rifles that need pellets with heads sized 4.49mm to 4.52mm. It costs about double to produce, so they will be sold in trays of 200:
The Wadacashslayer pellet.
shootski,
Founder of TOWAC GmbH
B.B.,
Some really fun names so far!
Great topic for this weekend. Straight from the catalog of The Old World Airgun Company:
A 10-40X60 scope with a 34mm tube that has a mil-dot reticle with illuminated dots that the shooter controls:
Serutan Sixty; Natures Iron Sight for old eyes!
A precharged pneumatic that has a huge air reservoir and a max fill pressure of 1,800 psi. In .177 caliber it fires JSB 10.34-grain domes at 950 f.p.s. and gets 60 shots per fill:
Jetsonardoni 950 multi-caliber system.
A new wadcutter pellet with a thin ring of lead around the edge of the nose. Testing has shown it to be hyper accurate in target air rifles that need pellets with heads sized 4.49mm to 4.52mm. It costs about double to produce, so they will be sold in trays of 200:
The Wadacashslayer pellet.
shootski,,
I am laughing out loud! 🙂
BB
BB,
That PCP. It sounds an awful lot like a US FT, does it not?
RR,
Possibly.
BB
B.B.,
BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!!
TOWAC GmbH is proud to anounce the startup of a TOWAC subsidiary NoShakeman Tools Company. They specialize in TOP QUALITY shooting stability platforms. Their first rollout is a bipod whose left leg holds up to 30 pellets and whose right leg detaches and contains a folding knife, Torx wrenches in sizes T6, T7 and T8, a ballpoint pen and scissors.
The Legpullerman 30-Plus, a Bipod for Everything!
In late testing and soon to be released is their AirLight Shooting Bench with, Mug/Growler/Glass holder with Chilled Cozzie, pellet tin holders, Spotting Scope arm, LabRadar/FX swing arm mount, under top cubbies for your Cylinders or Compressor.
shootski,
Founder TOWAC Industries.
You really need to get out more.
RidgeRunner,
“…get out more.” ???
Yea, yesterday was bad! Way too windy and the flow at Little Falls was close to 100,000 cubic feet/second! I was however out just this morning! I did a three hour paddle trying to get up the gorge from the Key Bridge riding the Flood tide. At the Chain Bridge the flow was still over 37,000 cubic feet/second and the whirlpools and eddylines were a blast. Water temperature was at 43°F not another soul on the river!
Oh! You didn’t mean that kind of get OUT!
shootski
LOL! No, not really. I am not surprised that you saw no one else on the river. There are a few hardy souls that come up here when the water is high, but like you they have dry suits.
Now, the AirLight Shooting Bench sounds like it might have some promise. 😉
A line of airguns could be called Anemoi…
Anemoi, were the Greek wind gods:
-Boreas, god of the north wind
-Eurus, god of the east wind
-Notus, god of the south wind
-Zephyrus, god of the west wind
-Caicias, god of the northeast wind
-Euronotus, god of the southeast wind
-Lips, god of the southwest wind
-Skeiron, god of the northwest wind
Some other names for airguns are from a couple of Mesopotamian gods.
Pazuzu, king of the wind demons, demon of the southwest wind
Ninlil, goddess of the wind
Fish! You’re back!
I have seen a kite named Zephyr.
I’ve never been gone – just idling and recharging the batteries.
By the way, ‘Flatliner’ could be a cool name for a hunting pellet.
For the heavy breakbarrel, I’ll go with ‘Pazuzu 25.’ king of the wind demons, demon of the southwest wind.
The accurate multipump, shall be called, ‘Zipcode.’
The youth gun could be named after the Polynesian god ‘Fisaga.’ In the mythology he is the god of the light and the gentle breeze. Excellebt weather conditions, with gentle breezes that requires cheaper of everything to get by.
I would be more inclined to go with Devastator for the pellet. If it will ‘shroom out at those low velocities, it will be devastating.
I still like Mjölnir for the sproinger. That is the name of Thor’s hammer.
Hakunamatata for the Mendoza makeover.
Or “The Reaper” for the hunting pellet.
Oh yeah, now we are cooking with gas!
😉
B.B. and Readership,
In the market for a SIG ASP20 air rifle? Read this first:
FRAUD WARNING! FRAUD WARNING!
https://www.sigsauer.com/store/asp20-break-barrel-air-rifle-22cal-wood-stock.html?utm_source=hardair&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=ASP20
Apparently there are a number of online sellers that are defrauding folk wanting to buy the SIG break barrel!
SIG as I have stated before is NOT taking backorders.
I have won a FRAUD fight with a seller that has online and a brick storefront presence in the Memphis, Tennessee area.
Fortunately they “cancelled” my order after my credit union fraud unit went after them! The outfit reversed an unauthorized charge, placed before shipment, on my credit card.
shootski
Shootski,
Man, you must really want one of those bad!
They priced themselves right out of the market. When you are talking sproingers, you have to be very patient if you want to sell high priced ones. You have to establish yourself with the top tier purchasers. They relied on their reputation in the powder burner world to sell their airgun line and the powder burners could not swallow the cost. I have heard powder burners say that Gamo was top shelf stuff. Their sphincters start flapping when you start talking about spending a thousand dollars or more on an airgun.
If I run across one of these, I will let you know.
RidgeRunner,
So SIG made and sold a fair number of them and yes I want at least one in .22 caliber preferably shod with a synthetic stock. I did go for one SIG had in stock .177 but it has a wood stock. It will be interesting to see how the .177 does with heavies. It should arrive sometime next week along with a WHISKEY3 ASP scope. SIG doesn’t have the Ballistic Turret available or perhaps no one knows that they have them somewhere in SALES!
shootski
Shootski,
Keep at it, you’ll find it.
RidgeRunner,
I’m going to wait on the .22 since the .177 wooden stock from SIGAIR is inbound. If I was just a Collector that will probably prove to be the more collectable over time anyway. It will be fun testing the .177 for pesting/hunting. I have actually learned a bit from all of you blog regulars about breakbarrels…this will be interesting for the Dark Side Guy!
shootski
Shootski,
You are going to enjoy it. There is nothing like sitting on the steps of the back porch on sunny afternoon and plinking away at spinners, feral soda cans and the like. Get you one of these dodads.
/product/pellet-pen-and-pellet-seater-loads-seats-177-pellets?a=4140
Helps to keep you from fumbling around with those itty bitty buggas.
RidgeRunner,
I think that might work well for the squirrel woods in Winter. I will be trying to figure out if I can adapt a Tactical Biathlon sling for this rifle: https://www.tabgear.com/products/biathlon-sling
Or from one of the Olympic Style makers.
So I can hunt on my XC skis or Snowshoes with it. Plenty of time before next Winter!
shootski
Shootski,
Seriously, I have seen elasticized double slings to hold the rifle on the center of your back. You would use your normal sling studs. Something like this.
https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Gun-Sling/dp/B00U1SEL3S
If you dig through Hector’s Airgun Blog, he has one about mounting slings on break barrels.
Shootski,
Here is Hector’s blog on slinging sproingers.
https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/slinging-the-dianas
I do not think a Biathlon sling setup would work well as the shoulder hooks would get in the way of cocking.
RidgeRunner,
Ah! Hector’s airgun BLOG! I certainly respect his shooting skill gotten with tens of thousands of pellets sent downrange. Never met the man in person; have read a good deal of his writings. His post on slings is a bit dated or he chose to not include a number slinging methods. I have thought about the standard BIATHLON stiff leather shoulder harnesses; which I really like for racing would be overkill for the skiing intensity for hunting n the snow.. I think the soft Nylon strap Tactical harness with the modern side flush mount QD and Cobra buckles or Koch fittings (like on a parachute harness) would solve much if not all of the issues with cocking.
shootski
Shootski,
so you are thinking of slinging it in front? I myself have thought of doing this very thing.
I was thinking of you carrying it on your back as the Biathlon skiers do. Out of the way.
Shootski
I bought my ASP20 in .177 a year ago. Accuracy has improved over time with breaking in. I deliberately did not clean the bore preferring to shoot any stuff out. I will spare you all the details I’ve gone through and stick to the bottom line as of now. I’m getting 1/3 inch 10 shot groups at 25 yards. Pellet is Baracuda Match 10.65 grain 4.50 mm. Best hold may be hard to believe: shoot it the same way you shoot a .22 rifle firearm. My left arm rests on a bag. This rifle is finally living up to BB’s claim of most accurate breakbarrel.
Deck
Decksniper,
If my ASP20 is shooting “…1/3 inch 10 shot groups at 25 yards.” I’ll be good with that. Thank you for the pellet information: “…Baracuda Match 10.65 grain 4.50 mm.” was on my list!
I believe you on the hold not hard to believe at all. I will let you know how it shoots with a hasty slingup as well as an Bicept Cuff sling. Now I just need to find where I put my Bicept!
Deck, if you don’t mind: Do you have the wood or synthetic stock? Also, what scope are you using?
shootski
Shootski
I have the synthetic stock and a UTG 4-16X40 scope with 1” rings. Scope was not my intended choice but fits my shooting position and settings don’t wander. The Baracuda pellet is a tight fit and can give fingers a hard time when shooting 50 + at a time. I use the flat of a plastic credit card strip to uniformly seat pellets flush.
Some have found the JSB 8.44 grain pellet to be a favorite using a balanced artillery hold. Best I could get with this pellet in my rifle was around 3/4” using my hold.
Good luck with yours and stay safe!
Deck
RidgeRunner,
I did read HM’s thoughts on the SIGAIR ASP20. I especially found his thoughts on hunting with .177 interesting; he has been in the America’s too long!
Twenty FPS MV is more than enough in .177 for small game and thin skinned light boned medium ( no not GAMO Bore hunting!) game at the Effective range of pellet and shooter. I suspect he never hunted real game with multi-pumps.
shootski
shootski,
Although Hector is quite knowledgeable, I think there is much he could learn “out in the real world”. He has been so wrapped up in FT so long, he has forgotten so much. I have a strong disagreement with him concerning the Diana ZR-1 mount. He claims it has superb repeatability, but then I see him mentioning about not touching the scope after it has recoiled from a shot. “Out in the real world” that is not going to happen. The seating of the mount needs to be repeatable under ALL circumstances.
RidgeRunner,
All I know about that mount is that it violates the KISS principle Big Time! As far as the dreaded droop, I really have never understood the issue, probably out of my ignorance of the specific break barrel issue. If it droops that bad a reverse MOA20+ rail would seem to fix that or adjustable base or scope rings; i guess you could do both!
As far as breaking the wire retical…i thought that issue went away with etched on glass/polycarbonate retical? Is that not true?
If it breaks anything else in the scope you need to buy better scopes anyway!
Ran out of reply space on the sling: with the Tactical Biathlon sling and the right design (sewing attachment points/buckles) you can wear it on your front or on your back. I have scrambled (butt down) down slick rock, mud, sand dunes or Scree with my rifle on a reversed Ching Sling it worked but biathlon sling would work better at remaining stable and your rifle remains instantly available. The double sling with bungee gets in the way of the skipole and arm swing because the rifle isn’t straight up and down body centerline.
shootski
Shootski,
Well, you know way more about them slingy thingys than I do. I am certain you will give it much thought.
Now, as for the scopes, I have seen some real horror stories with these and sproingers. There are still scopes that use wire reticles. I have some. I prefer a glass etched one, but a low power and thick reticle in thick woods works nice.
When you mount a scope on that ASP20, you had better make sure your scope is airgun rated. That sproinger has more forward recoil than backward. That is what breaks many very expensive scopes. I have seen broken reticles, cracked internal lenses and rotating reticles.
That was the idea of the ZR-1 mount, to reduce the recoil felt by the scope. It does work in that respect. It works great, IF you are careful not to jiggle the scope around between shots. Just get airgun rated scopes and mounts and you do not have to worry about it.
Barrel droop. It happens with the best of them. It shows up most with the scope on the compression tube and the barrel in a hinged block in front. Is everything lined up perfectly? Not most of the time. The solutions you speak of work great. I like adjustable rings or bases. I have these on my HM1000X.
/product/sportsmatch-30mm-rings-fully-adjustable-high-11mm-dovetail?a=4353
Sproingers are whole different critters to PCPs. They are fun to learn and shoot. Just so you know, that one you have coming is about as powerful as you want to go.
Shootski
You just missed a used one for sale at AOA out on the west coast.
Gunfun1,
Normally I would YELL at you for posting that! But since I have the .177 inbound i’m all tranquilo.
I will wait for the .22 and two eventualities; for SIGAIR to restart production or the folks that bought the .22 SIG ASP20 with synthetic stock to start selling the almost NIB that ever did shoot like they thought they should, LOL!
I’m already searching for .177 pesting/hunting pellets and making a list. Normally I would start at the spendy end with my search and work backwards; this time i’m going to setup an algorithm on cost increase ratio over a time before the recent shortages/price rise began to help decide what to buy first. I think I need to stockpile an assortment for testing in round nose around 8-10gn. heavies.
shootski
Shootski
Oh no yelling!
You know where that will go. 😉
And sounds like you got some extra time on your hands for some pellet testing. You know how that goes. Sometimes it works out. Sometimes it takes more time than you want.
But hey it’s more shooting time. Nothing wrong with that in my book. 🙂
I would really like to have an Amaranth. Beware. Do not ever say that word within Dennis’ hearing.
RidgeRunner,
You mean: http://quackenbushairguns.com/liege_lock.html
Shhhh! Shhhh!
shootski
Shootski,
Exactly! If you want to see a man get angry, bring these up with him.
The problem was I do believe they were a little bit ahead of their time. The market was not quite ready for them. Airguns were just starting to gain in popularity in the USA. Also, the internet was not. With today’s market, understanding the design and low pressures, they would sell. There are many collectors such as myself who would scrape up the change to get their hands on one of these.
RidgeRunner,
I don’t think most folks understand what they are capable of since they don’t look like what a rifle “should look like” to them.
I would have bought one when I first met him but i was a year late. I did buy all the rest of the Outlaws in rifle and pistol. AND, Not as a Never Shoot Collector who puts them in a safe only to be showed off! But I treat them all very well and feed them only the finest quality Lead, LOL!
shootski
Shootski,
If I have it, I have to shoot it. If it don’t shoot, it don’t live here.
I have to admit that some of my airguns are not the greatest shooting things, but they are still fun to pull out and plink with.
Okay, I guess I should throw a few names out there.
1) A powerful .25 breakbarrel that’s gigantic and hard to use: “Armstrong 25” Because you’re going to need a strong arm to both carry and use it, right? (Either that or the Sproingzooka). Keep the 25 for the calibre for future expansion.
2) An accurate .177 multi-pump pistol with a nice trigger and adjustable sights: “Variable Speed Pistol” This existing model should clearly be the “Target” model. More aggressive styling and an optics rail with no sights could be “Tactical” or “Optics-Ready”… etc.
3) Hunting low-velocity hollowpoint – I actually like the original shark themed naming – something like “Sharktooth”, but I think I would actually prefer “Deathblossom” – it keeps the flower petal reference, and death is actually appropriate for a hunting pellet. Neither need the calibre in the name, since presumably that will need to go elsewhere on the packaging.
4a) A youth target derivative of the Medoza where the boss wants “a name that conveys quality, excellence and value”: I think… “Peerless”. I also like “Cadet”, but that might depend on your association with the JROTC/ROTC programs since those are probalby what Americans think of with cadets. The Daisy 953 line has a separate “Cadet” model available in Canada that is the same SKU as the Air/Sea/Army cadet programs use
4b) Dual-blade trigger mechanism: “Safelite trigger” – Safe + lite
5) 10-40X60 scope: “Helios” – I don’t have a real reason for going with a mythological sun reference, other than the scope is bright, and also it’s been another long, grey winter in the Pacific Northwest so I’m probably subconsciously craving sunshine.
6) Large reservoir, low-pressure PCP: “Marathon” It just keeps on going the distance.
7) Special target pellet that works with rifles with different head size preferences: “Accuband” – Accuracy + band, because what the feature is essentially a forward driving band to engage the rifling
8) Multi-purpose bipod: “Outbound survival bipod”
chanman819,
Ohhhh! Deathblossom. I LIKE it! And Marathon — I hope Crosman is reading this! Accuband for the pellet. chanman819 you belong in advertising!
BB
And if we can get away from the theming from management on the junior target rifle version of the Mendoza, let’s go with “Disciple” or “Initiate” since the target audience are students or those taking their first steps into the sport looking for an affordable entry point.
Nathan
Sproingzooka! Awesome!
BB
The new target wadcutter pellet could be called the “Posey”, as in, “Ring around the NOSEY, a pocket full o’ poseys”
On a more serious note, how ’bout “Adapt-o-Dia” Target Pellet”. Or, the “DELTA D” pellet.
Half
Half,
The Delta D is a good product name!
BB
Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! I have a good one for the bipod! Junk!
RidgeRunner,
Is that the one machined from BILLET Illudium q-36?
shootski
Shootski,
The very same.
Expanding pellet- The Cannonball
.25 break barrel- The John Henry
The multi pump pistol- The Clapper
For the wadcutter- Holepuncher ProComp
For the youth rifle- BSR Target (Baby Sniper Rifle)
For the bipod- The Jitterbug
For the scope- The Xyclops-16
For the PCP- The “Drumline Bunny” (see Energizer)
I read recently where a company was developing a pellet that would counteract barrel droop in spring piston guns. It’s supposed to have an alloy of 80% Lead and 20% Upsadaisium.
Half
Halfstep
And Spiralanium too. 🙂
BB,
Call the youth target rifle, The “Wm.Schooley Dream”
Half
Half
Yes that for sure.
Good assignment and well timed for the weekend. So far my own ideas are half baked:
For the 25 cal, “Heracles Quarter Bore” or “Bicep Buster”…or maybe “Delilah” since it requires a Samson…”Atlas Shrugged” might work, as well as “HMS Titanic”…
For the expanding pellet, “Slo Mo Diabolo Double-Oh”… or maybe “Slow Motion Train Wreck”…
The problems with the supply chain these days are largely attributable to the insistence by manufacturers in using Unobtainium to make their products. It is difficult to extract from the Chinese-owned mines in Ultima Thule.