This is a guest report on reader 45Bravo’s Air Venturi Avenger bullpup .177. I am currently reporting on the large .25-caliber Avenger bullpup. But we never hear about the .177. Today we will!
If you’d like to write a guest post for this blog, please email me at blogger@pyramydair.com.
Take it away, 45Bravo.
Air Venturi Avenger bullpup .177
by Ian McKee
Avenger bullpup.
This report covers:
- Choosing the right one
- Very little information about the .177
- I had to get a replacement|Cleaning and snugging
- Performance out of the box
- How slow will it go
- 150 shots on this fill
- Bounce
- Observations
- Oh wait
Choosing the right one
Like many people I had pre-ordered one of the Air Venturi Avenger bullpups.
I had fretted over what caliber to get, I already have a .22 caliber wooden stock Avenger and I am astounded by the accuracy and consistency of the platform.
By the many reviews online the .25 caliber version is just as capable as the .22 caliber rifle.
Very little information about the .177
But there were very few reviews of the .177 Avenger, and what few they were did not go into any depth other than shooting a few shots out of the box with the factory tune.
I am a member of a few Facebook groups that are dedicated to the Avenger platform where owners share their experiences and modifications or “improvements” they have made or discovered about their rifles.
But even within the groups there is very little useful information and data about the .177 caliber avenger of any version.
At heart I am a plinker, I feel once you have your zero, it is more fun to shoot reactive targets until you think something has changed and you need to check your zero on paper again.
I decided to get the .177 caliber as the pellets are less expensive than either .22 caliber, and .25 caliber, and I wanted it for informal field target and silhouette shooting, with maybe some light pest control in between.
I had to get a replacement
The first Avenger I received arrived damaged, it had to have been when it was packaged overseas, as the box was in perfect condition, but the scope riser mount was cracked.
Pyramyd AIR processed the exchange for a new rifle with no issues.
When the rifle arrived, it had 1000 psi of air in the gun. I filled it to 300bar, (4351psi).
Cleaning and snugging
The gun has been on a boat from China for weeks, from past experience, I knew a few things needed attention. I went over the exterior of the gun looking for loose screws, every screw I found, I removed, cleaned with alcohol, and put a dot of blue Loctite on the threads, and snugged them back in place.
I removed the cheek piece, and where the scope mounts would be for the regular Avenger, and one at a time, loosened the barrel screws, cleaned them, added the Loctite and returned them back to their place and just a little past snug.
The Avenger platform has a chrome plated metal receiver (it is a ferrous metal as a magnet is attracted to it) that is hidden under a plastic cover that has the name of the gun and pressure warnings emblazoned on it.
SIDE NOTE: This gun is sold in many other parts of the world under the name Leviathan, so making the plastic breech cover with the appropriate logos would be much cheaper than making 2 versions of the metal receiver.
I then turned the gun upside down and cleaned the bore using an alcohol swab on a pull through, then 4 more dry patches until the 4th patch came out clean, I then used a .17 caliber bore snake (with the bristles brushes removed) that is lightly oiled to lightly coat the barrel.
The barrel is not crowned, and it comes with the new version of the end cap that has a baffle core to help lower the noise level of the rifle.
Performance out of the box
The regulator came set to 2000 psi, and the hammer spring was set to zero (fully counter-clockwise). Out of the box with 7.9-grain Crosman domes, the first 40 shots averaged 1039 f.p.s., with a high of 1052, and a low of 1019. So a spread of 33 f.p.s. And with Crosman 10.5-grain domes it got an 880 f.p.s. average for 10 shots.
How slow will it go?
I had been asked by some members of the facebook group to see how slow it would shoot, so I degassed the gun, closed the regulator screw, then just turned it counterclockwise until the screw just moved from the closed position.
I wanted to break the gun in, so I refilled the gun to 300bar and started shooting. With the regulator set at the lowest possible position, the regulator pressure shows 1700 psi.
150 shots on this fill
The next 100 shots with Crosman 7.9-grain wadcutters (I have a LOT of them on hand) went from a high of 977 on the first shot, the second shot went out at 912 f.p.s., (more on that later), to a low of 870 toward the end of the string. The spread was 107 f.p.s.
Toward the end of the 100 shot string, I started getting more and more duplicate displays on my chronograph, meaning the shot was the same as the one before it. So the regulator was starting to settle in.
After 50 shots, the gun pressure read 3200 psi. After 100 total shots the pressure in the gun had dropped from 4351psi to 2300 psi. After a total of 150 shots on this fill, I stopped when the reservoir pressure had dropped to 1700 psi, matching the regulator pressure. I could have shot more but decided to stop here
The last 20 shots on this fill went out at an average of 859 f.p.s., High of 868, low of 854, for a spread of 14 f.p.s.
Bounce
Many owners have reported that after a fill, your first few shots will shoot faster until the regulator settles down again. I wanted to try this, so after filling to 4351 psi, I shot another 30 shot string with the same pellets. The first shot went out at 959 f.p.s. Then shot number 2 went out at 919 f.p.s. The high was 959 f.p.s., the low was 902 f.p.s., with a spread of 57 f.p.s. But if you drop the first shot after the fill, the numbers change to a high of 919, and a low of 902, with a spread of 17 f.p.s.
So, for lack of a better term, I will call this regulator bounce. I won’t call it regulator creep because after sitting for a few minutes, the shots are still within a few f.p.s. of each other.
So, after a fill, dry fire the first shot. That’s not that bad, for a $400 gun that is still breaking in. I feel that the numbers will tighten up more as the gun and regulator wear in.
Observations
I was hoping that dropping the reg. pressure as low as possible would drop it down into the 500-600fps range so it could be a backyard plinker with an extremely high shot count, but with the way it’s made, that is currently out of the question without changing parts, and possibly voiding your warranty. At its lowest setting the regulator seems to struggle with stepping the pressure down from whatever your tank pressure is to 1700 psi. (I guess that is the reason the FX Impact has 2 regulators.)
As the gun went through its entire pressure range the velocity dropped by about 100 f.p.s., (if you take out the first shot after a refill of 977 f.p.s., the spread drops to just 69 f.p.s. for 100 shots) but the gun is still new, and wearing in, or possibly the regulator just may not be as stable or efficient at its lowest setting, but that is something I will tinker with until I find its happy place.
I think with a slightly higher regulator setting and heavier 10.5-grain pellets, it will do better.
It is shooting in the 13-14 ft. lb. range with the 7.9’s so I will explore this power level with an accuracy test next time.
Be safe.
Oh wait!
It wouldn’t be a blog from me unless I showed you how to fix something. One of the Air Venturi magazines quit working in the test so we will repair it. There are only 5 parts to the magazine, and one of them is a screw.
The first photos compare it to a Benjamin Marauder magazine, in .177 caliber.
And yes, the Marauder rifle magazines do fit the Avengers of the same calibers, the Marauder pistol magazines do not fit the Air Venturi guns.
The Marauder magazine has 3 holes in which to insert the spring that rotates the pellet shuttle, allowing you to set different amounts of preload on the pellet shuttle, the Air Venturi magazines have only 1 hole.
The magazine on the left is the Marauder mag.
Marauder mag. on the left.
Remove the screw, by turning it counterclockwise with a 2.5mm Allen key, then remove the clear plastic cover, and the pellet shuttle, then the spring.
There’s not a whole lot to it.
The ends of the spring are different, one end is parallel with the spring, and one end is perpendicular to the spring.
Take note of the 2 ends of the spring.
If the ends of the spring are not broken you will insert the perpendicular end into the hole in the back of the magazine, then line up the parallel end of the spring with the notch in the pellet shuttle.
/product/air-venturi-avenger-bullpup-regulated-pcp-air-rifle?m=671
The end of the spring goes into the corresponding notch in the back of the pellet shuttle.
Then rotate the shuttle clockwise until the last round hold open bump is past the bump in the magazine and the shuttle is held in place with spring pressure.
The small brass pin in the clear face of the magazine goes in this alignment groove.
Then put the clear cover over the magazine assembly and tighten the screw, making sure the brass alignment pin is in its groove, and the pellet cover and the shuttle rotates easily, if you tighten the screw too much, it will prevent the magazine parts from working, if it is too loose, it will allow the clear cover too much play and allow debris into the magazine.
There, we fixed it!
Be safe.
Ian
Ian,
Nice report! How long do you think that it will take to settle in?
Seems you have already put a lot of pellets through it and it is still breaking in.
-Y
I am no where as experienced as Tom, who through years of experience and some wizardry can pretty much guess what pellets will shoot well in a gun, and rarely is wrong with his choices, But if one pellet he thinks will do good, and it doesn’t, then he knows another that will perform.
And most importantly, he has that pellet on his shelf of potions and spells.
In my opinion, each gun is different, some settle in with 30 or 40 shots, and I have had some take more than a tin of pellets before it settles down.
This as an area that a lot of the youtube reviewers skim over, or just leave out entirely, they may have shot 500 pellets through the gun to find what speed and pellet combination it likes, and if the barrel is most accurate when its clean, slightly dirty, or if it doesn’t matter how dirty it is, it still shoots good.
Some of them trim their content to give you a demonstration of the best the gun has to offer.
There is nothing wrong with that, as screen time is valuable and if some viewers see a gun shooting poorly, they will automatically pass judgment on it without knowing the full story.
I will say within the first 100 shots, the “DUPL” icon came up more and more often on my chronograph towards the end of the string.
In my experience of owning a .22 caliber Avenger with a wood stock, and several friends owning synthetic .22 & .25 caliber ones, the Avengers don’t seem to be too pellet picky, and don’t need their bores to be meticulously clean to shoot well.
I think I am asking a lot of a few pieces of spring steel belleville washers to take 4350 psi and drop it down consistently to 1700psi or less within a few rounds.
It will take a little time for me to figure out the combination of regulator pressure, hammer spring preload, and correct pellet of get the consistency and accuracy the .177 is capable of.
The .22 caliber was easy, the youtube channel AEAC put out an hour long video about tuning the .22 caliber Avenger, He had ran over 3000 pellets through his gun to find which ones it liked, and figure out different “tunes” for the rifle,
He did the leg work for everyone, we just have follow his guide, and the pellets he suggested, and with minimal tweaking, you will find your rifles happy place.
The .177 caliber seems to be the “red headed stepchild” and there is very little information out there about tuning it.
I am muddling my way through it, but learning something every time i shoot it.
Ian
I have a .177 Avenger but it’s not the Bullpup version. I like all the adjustments you can do to it. I wanted a .22 cal. version but got a good deal on a .177 cal. and was told that it was traded in for a larger cal. version. When I received it it had some problems, both mags wouldn’t work and they fit extremely tight when they were installed in the receiver. I suppose that is why when it arrived it had the single shot tray installed. I googled the mag problem and was led to the same solution I read this morning by Ian. I was very nervous about the next fix. Try not to judge me too harshly by my next solution to the tight fitting mags. I took a file to the back of the receiver to gain some clearance and it solved the tight mag problem and I really like the results, the mag works perfectly now.
Sidney
Is the single shot tray loose now or does it still stay in place.
I wasn’t using the single shot tray since I fixed the mag problem. But I was able to find the single shot tray. I installed it and it worked fine. Very little play.
Sidney
Really shouldn’t be any play in the shot tray. It should have a little bit of a snug fit.
If it was me I would of took a piece of sandpaper on a flat surface and lightly sanded the back housing of the mag till you got the fit you wanted.
I would not of opened the breech up like you did. Now if for some reason. You get extra mags they might fit loose.
Sorry for not being clearer about my feed problem with the Avenger. The two original mags that came with the rifle would not advance when I would cock the rifle for the next shot because they were so tight in the receiver. I had to relieve the pressure on the mag to get it to be reliable. I’m a plinker and don’t use the single shot tray so that’s not an issue for me. But it did seem to work fine. Oh and I have 12 mags and they all work fine for me now. No binding. Happy plinking is here again.
Sidney
Yep if your other mags work then it sounds like your reciever was tight. But then again if all your mags are the same brand then maybe they have a dimension wrong on the mags.
I use 3 or 4 different brand mags in my Marauder rifles and Gauntlet and they all interchange fine in the guns.
Have you heard of anybody else having the problem you had with their guns?
GENE SALVINO if you read this, please email me at 45Bravoairguns@gmail.com I have a question or two I need your expertise.
Ian
Ian,
Gene left Pyramyd AIR many months ago. I don’t think he still reads the blog.
BB
Thanks for the update. That would be why his air venturi email is no longer valid.
Ian.
45Bravo
You didn’t say why the mag stopped working.
I’m guessing the spring came out of the back housing hole. That tends to happen at times with these type of mags. But as you show a pretty straight forward fix.
Yes that is what happened.
Easy fix.
45Bravo
Thought so.
45Bravo,
Thanks for the blog.
Am I to understand that, with the reg turned down and the hammer strike at its lowest, you were still getting 900+ fps with Crosman 7.9s? That gun sounds like it was made for .177 slugs to me.
What sort of accuracy did you get with Wadcutters at those speeds? I’ve found that they do best at 600ish or less in most of my guns and even then it’s around 20-25 yards max. Another thing that I found is that Crosman, in this case, Domed, pellets, when travelling that fast fouled the heck out of the .177 barrel on my Gamo Coyote after a single mag. I thought the scope had suddenly crapped out on me and spent a lot of time eventually discovering that the barrel needed cleaning. I always try to keep all the 7.9 grain Crosman varieties at closer to 800 fps, since then. No fouling issues with the Wadcutters?
Sure hope you take the time to post an accuracy blog, because, as you pointed out, there isn’t much out there on the .177 and I wouldn’t be above getting one myself, if it was accurate. I like me some cheap plinkin’ as well!
Thanks again for the blog. Stay safe, Half
Yes there will be an accuracy blog, but due to time constraints with work and other things I was not able to shoot for accuracy during the first 200 shots for this blog, it was shot at 10ft into my silent trap in the closet.
Ian
Thanks Ian!
I find that I am a plinker myself. Most of the old gals around here are .177, although I do have a few that are .22. Most of the time I find I am shooting feral soda cans at 25+ yards, but recently I have built a “plinking tree” and it has started to get a good work out. I just glued four magnets along the top to hold my silhouette targets. Between the spinners and the silhouettes, I have some pretty small targets to plink at.
PS: Thanks for the tutorial on the magazine rebuild.
Good one Ian! Thanks for the report!
Agree that the break-in period can vary quite a bit.
I count out 100 pellets that I have culled during my sorting activities and shoot those for the initial break-in/familiarization period. Besides the incoming inspection/cleaning and hardware check I don’t do much beyond some casual plinking and watching for pressure leaks until that tin is empty.
That Avenger sound like a lot of gun for the money. Think I’ll wander over to AEAC to see what Steve says about it.
Hank
You will be pleasantly surprised, he has 2 videos, one for the actual review then on his AEAC Vlog channel he has an accuracy/tuning guide.
He gives a lot of insight into the rifle.
Ian
Ian,
Great writing as always. Thank you for sharing so much info with us.
Derrick
Ian,
Great report on an under reported version of the Air Venturi Avenger. I hope you do a follow up regarding it’s accuracy. From the velocities you are getting I do agree with Halfstep that it seems to have been developed with slugs or boolits not pellets in mind.
Siraniko
I agree with the heavier projectiles idea, but I haven’t seen much about the .177 and slug use.
The .22&.25 calibers seem to be shooting a lot of different pellets and some slugs well.
I have bought a few different .177 slugs to test in it, along with some heavier pellets.
I will test it with the hardware it has from the factory, but in the long run, I really want to try a lighter hammer, and a lighter hammer spring, to get it below 12ftlbs.
Unless during my testing something turns out to be THE pellet for accuracy, and I will be happy with that..
Given the track record for the Avengers in the other calibers, I am sure there will be at least one pellet that qualifies as THE pellet.
Ian.
45Bravo
I bet the JSB or AirArms and FX 10.34 grain pellets will work good at your 1700 regulator pressure and low striker pressure. Most of my higher velocity .177 caliber pcp’s like them.
They usually shoot good at a wide range of velocity also though. I have had good accuracy in the 500 fps range up to around 950 fps in different guns. Give them a try with the low pressure regulator and spring setup you have now if you have some. Before you get a lower pressure striker spring.
45Bravo,
Give thought to other options to lower MV external KE.
Is there a plenum after the regulator output? You could get down to 12FP by inserting a volume reducer while retaining the initial internal Ballistics. The other option, less optimal, is to do that reduction in the valve body if space/function permits.
shootski
Shootski
Reread what you wrote. Ian is right a lighter hammer and spring would be the way to go. Plus probably the easiest thing to do. Personally if it was me and I wanted less velocity and doing something to the gun I would go with a lighter hammer/striker spring.
Also if more power was wanted the easiest is a heavier striker spring. I had a couple 70+fpe .25 caliber Marauder gen1 and gen2. And mind you they was not regulated and very accurate out to a 130 yards. Yes only about 12 consistent shots. It served its purpose. Let’s put it this way there ain’t many times I see 12 Coyotes at a time. Usually about 5 or 6. So 12 shots was plenty. Plus they was running after the first shot anyway unless I would catch them in a feeding frenzy. Then I could manage a couple shots before they realized what was happening.
But I know what your saying. But to me that’s more work I think than what’s needed.
Sorry for delays in answering, I have been sick for the past few days, and on prescription cough meds.
Attached is a page from the pdf of the assembly for the avenger. The regulator and air handling is all within one block of aluminum. Some owners are eliminating the air tubes and adding a bottle to their guns.
The assembly is the same on all guns, except for different size porting and regulator settings for different calibers.
It seems the .177 comes set at about 2000 psi, the .22 caliber somewhere around 2800 psi, and the .25 caliber at about 2900 psi.
Most owners drop those pressures down somewhat.
I have had one gun replaced, by warranty, I don’t want to do anything to void that warranty just yet, so anything I do will be “minimally invasive” so to speak.
Ian.
Gunfun1,
Yup! Never said there aren’t multiple ways to “skin this cat” and get different outcomes. I agree on the spring and hammer/striker being a quick way to get lower KE.
The diagram that Ian provided helps understand the approach used for regulation and safety relief valve. Lots more to know about the valve, spring(s) striker/hammer.
I’m more interested than ever what is being adjusted (parts 13 & 14) externally?
shootski
Shootski
We will have to see what Ian comes up with.
45Bravo
Thanks for the drawing. Kind of funny how they show things multiple times in steps. When all said and done there are 2 pieces that go in the main block.
I like the design. Is the butterfly spring another word for bevel washers like in other regulators? I haven’t searched to see. It was in my mind so I figured I would mention it before I forget.
Part 14 is the screw you use to drain the air from the tank, the major part of that diagram is showing the steps to assemble the Belleville washer stack and the regulator stem, then inserting the parts into the aluminum block.
I figure they can be re configured to lower the pressure of the regulator. Without disassembly I have now gotten my regulator down to about 1200 psi.
Then the next page deals with more assembly of the “semi finished product “ pieces.
The PDF I have takes you from start to finish of the whole gun.
I will give them this, they use a 6k burst disk, 4/3rds of 4350 psi is 5800.
They built in a safety margin.
It is most helpful when your warranty runs out….
45Bravo
Totally like that they have drawings for the whole gun available.
Like you said. Nice for when the warranty runs out.
The next question is I wonder if they will be as good as Crosman is with parts availability.
Thanks for the input I will order some.
With a pellet in the middle 10 grains I think it will be in the 850-860ish FPS zone.
As long as the accuracy is there I have no problem with the 17ftlbs.
I already got 150 shots on the fill at that setting, the heavier pellets may increase that count by a few more.
If I am lucky.
45Bravo,
You may have more info on this than I, since I haven’t looked at any forums, but I just rewatched Steve’s tuning video and, although he was setting up a .22 non-bullpup, (I have to believe that the reg is the same from one caliber to another and one platform to another), he had 0 psi on the regulated side of the system when he backed out the reg 1/4 turn, after degassing and refilling, and it looked to me as if he backed out another 1/2 to 3/4 turn to get 1500 psi. (he was shooting for 1400 psi and it must have creeped higher as he dry fired the gun to settle the reg) For your gun to be at 1700 psi after just “cracking” the reg ccw seems to indicate a defective regulator to me. I encourage you to watch that video over again starting at 1:17:15 and see if I’m misunderstanding him or the way you are trying to set up your gun. This is Steve’s economy tune advice section. I just think your minimum velocities are too high for a .177 and I get the impression that you were expecting lower as well. Let us know if anything changes as time passes.
Half
Half,
The minimum reg setting that BB got was 1800 psi. The reg is probably ok if it is holding steady. The guns gauge might be a little off(?). – Don
/blog/2022/01/air-venturi-avenger-bullpup-precharged-rifle-part-3/
45Bravo
Let us know how it goes.
Off subject here. I noticed when going through this article that the new Benjamin (Kral) Gunnar has a lot in common with the RAW.
https://hardairmagazine.com/news/lets-take-a-first-look-at-the-benjamin-gunnar-pcp-air-rifle/
RR
I read the link you posted and to say first of all I totally like that the regulator is biult into the bottle. I bet it can be interchanged with the other regulated bottles like the Air Venturi 13 cubic inch bottle and new bigger Gauntlet 2 bottle. I have been a big fan of those bottles and guns that use that bottle for a log time. Glad to see it happening.
But what do you see in the Gunnar that is common with RAW’s?
For one thing, the gauge/filler block. It would probably fit the RAW. You also have to remove the bottle to adjust the regulator, although the regulator of the RAW is inside the action block instead of the bottle. You also do not have to degas the RAW bottle.
If you pull the RAW out of the stock, it does not look much different from the Gunnar. The RAW chassis stock fastens all that stuff to the action.
Personally, I think the Gunnar should be more in line price wise with the Marauder, but everybody seems to be willing to pay more for less these days. The more it looks like a Mattelomatic and the more Mattelomatic parts it has, the more it costs. I was going to buy a Brocock, but then the price jumped to over a grand. They can keep them.
As you know, I am looking to sell my RAW. It is better than the Marauder will ever likely be, but not close to three times better.
RR
Yep that is probably one thing I don’t like about the Gunnar. The price.
45Bravo,
Ian do you know/have measured what the Twist on the .177 barrel is? The new .177 bullets (slugs) are interesting but so few folks have reported true longer range results. At slower velocities I just can’t see how a 1:17 Twist will provide sufficient rotational stability. I have read a number of articles where writers claim folks have found precision but they are most all not first person accounts. I just can’t see the other Balistic tricks available fixing the slow RPM.
Do you know if on the externally adjustable regulators they are using only stacks of Belleville Springs (washers) or do they have coil springs or some other combinations. I’m clueless on how the pressures are being externally adjusted on these newer regulators. With Belleville, in my experience, there comes a range of pressure stepdown that results in regulator instability or creep over time. The old solution was to daise chain regulators. I have restacked/reoriented lots of Belleville Springs to change regulation ratios but i need to buy an externally adjustable example and tear it down!
shootski
BB,
WordPress not working with the scheduler again?
Siraniko