This report covers:
- What you intend doing with the rifle
- Squirrels
- What model rifle
- A rant
- Summary
In Part 1 we found the best hold and picked the best pellet. We shot with open sights at 10 yards (or meters, which is 11 yards). And you saw that demonstrated in the report titled, Gamo Swarm Bone Collector Gen 3i multi-shot air rifle: Part Three. Now what?
Now that we know our rifle just a little it’s time to expand our knowledge. At this point many shooters will mount a scope on their rifle. The scope you mount will be determined by several things.
What you intend doing with the rifle
If you want to kill insects you need to focus at close range. Will you mount a Bugbuster? You probably should — especially if you have one or can afford to buy one. That scope is designed for this purpose. Of course it also works at longer distance, but it’s primary purpose and best application is for small targets at close range.
And please don’t ask me at what distance the scope should be sighted in. Figure it out. If all your targets are between 9 feet and 35 feet, sight the scope for that. Forget 50 yards because your primary targets won’t be at that distance. Can you also shoot out to 50 yards? Of course. You just need to figure out what adjustments needs to be made.
Do you want to shoot groups at 100 yards? If so you want a powerful scope and, since you will be shooting from a bench, the weight is a non-issue. Please don’t write and tell me you want the scope mounted as low as possible and what rings will enable you to do that. You are shooting at 100 yards; who cares how tall the rings are? Just make sure you have a bubble level mounted too.
Squirrels
Now I will get very specific. You want to hunt squirrels.
Are you hunting squirrels in the dark, leafy woods? Let’s get a scope with great light transmission. This is where a bright scope like an Integrix or a Meopta does well. And those are just two brands. There are high-end Burris, Nightforce and Swarovski scopes that will also work well — I was just trying to save you some money.
Will scopes that are lower-priced work, too? Of course. But try to stay on the side of quality because light transmission is usually reflected in the quality of the scope. I do like UTG scopes for this, and many shooters like Burris and Hawke for the same reasons.
For squirrel hunting you want a lightweight scope because you will be carrying it a lot. The power doesn’t need to be that high, but as I said before, it needs to be bright. Zero it for the distance at which you can put a pellet into a one inch circle (the squirrel’s head) 100 percent of the time. For some shooters that’s 35 yards. For others it’s 15. If your max distance is 25 yards, zero the scope for the distance at which all pellets hit within a half-inch of the aim point out to that distance. Obviously there will be a close distance that is your minimum. Shoot closer than that and you will be more than a half inch from the aim point.
What model rifle
The model rifle you have also factors into scope selection. And two things are critical.
1. Can you get your sighting eye up or down to the scope’s exit pupil (the light that leaves the eyepiece — can you see through the scope when it’s on your rifle)? Some rifles have adjustable cheekpieces and adjustable buttpads/plated so they can be set for your body type and the mounted scope.
2. Does your rifle force you to position a scope in a certain place? Things like circular magazines on breakbarrels that have to open can cause us to select some scopes over others. Even just the breakbarrel itself can force scope positioning issues. Just try to make sure the scope you select for size also offers the features you need for the kind of shooting you want to do.
A rant
I’ll close this report with a personal rant. It’s about the cost of pellets. Yes, I hate the high prices pellets cost these days, but what can we do? Everyone hopes to find that super-cheap pellet that can’t miss, but the same people all want superb accuracy. Guys — they don’t usually come in the same tin. You see me use JSB pellets a lot. That’s because I want to show you the very best that a certain airgun can do and I know from experience they will give me that most of the time.
When Benjamin brought out their new domed pellet recently I was thrilled to see that the price was so reasonable. I have tested the .177 several times and I hope to test the .22, as well
What I don’t want to do is find out which brand of “sinker lavae” pellets is good enough. I don’t have time for that. And if I started doing it, i.e. testing with inexpensive, mediocre pellets, you guys would leave this blog in droves. You know you would, so don’t lie about it. You guys criticize airguns that shoot ten shots into one inch at 25 yards. We both know you wouldn’t put up with me using pellets that always did that or worse.
Summary
After learning a little about your rifle, the next step is to set it up for the kind of shooting you want to do. For many of us this step is seamless with the first several steps we discussed in Part 1. But sometimes the design of the rifle separates the two, like with the Black Bunker BM8 rifle, and that is what today’s report has been about.
“You see me use JSB pellets a lot. That’s because I want to show you the very best that a certain airgun can do and I know from experience they will give me that most of the time.”
BB,
Roger that! I’m not going to spend hundreds of dollars on an airgun, then worry about finding cheap pellets that shoot ‘OK’ in it; I want each of my airguns to do the best they can do. And, my experience is the same as yours: in most all my airguns JSB pellets turned out to give the best accuracy, even with my vintage Sheridan.
Blessings to you,
dave
The best pellets at Wallyworld should be tested, just so we can show our buddies who buy there why they need to buy from PA.:)
I will be going over to The Dark Side. Did a little shooting with my just arrived 3622. Didn’t group it, and don’t have a chrony, but I am already in love! Would definitely recommend getting the steel breech installed, had to move the rear sight all the way to the left to get pellets close. 14.3 Benjamins still hit a little left, 19 Crosman Premiers closer (and lower) but H&N Crow Magnum 18 hit on, possibly a bit high.
10-for-10 test showed 11.9 RWS running in the high 600s. Hill G9 pump seems to work well.
If I had to choose something to change, I would wish Crosman would have an extended and threaded barrel past the front sight. It’s just loud enough (similar to a 362 at 7 or 8 pumps) that being able to mount a Buck-Rail can on it would be great. All in all, I would rate the 3622 kit 5 stars.
OP,
I did your WallyWorld test years ago and discovered that those pellets are what they are. I wish I could remember the title of the report.
The very best at WallyWorld are Daisy and Crosman pellets. They are okay, but do not compare to the premium pellets mentioned in this report.
BB
BB
Lots of useful tips for folks getting into airguns. As a long time powder burner and reloader I would have saved much cash and time if I had read this at the start of my airgun venture. I bought a tin of just about every big store pellet I happened upon on the chance that it would be the cat’s meow in one of my guns. Folks it ain’t going to happen in target shooting.
Being a reloader I should have known better.
Deck
Deck,
We live and we learn.
BB
LOL! That we do!
I just may have to take one of my residents out and give some of these “fishing lure” pellets I have some range time and show these folks what to expect.
It has been some time since I have added any pellets to my “fishing lure” bin, but I do have a few to add and I am tired of carrying these things around. For some time now I have stayed with the top shelf brands, but even then “they” have produced some attempts at economical and just plain different designs. Most of these attempts have ended up as a flop. Many of these cannot be had anymore.
Something everyone out there in La La Land should keep in mind is the basic diabolo pellet design has been pretty much worked out and anything that shows a variation is likely not going to do too well.
If you do your homework, you will likely find out what does and does not work.
As usual, your mileage may vary. I love it when the cheap pellets punch above their weight class. I have a Crosman Mark II (the one that has the “compromise ” barrel to shoot BBs and pellets that shoots H&N Plinking pellets better than anything in my collection, even better than the JSB wadcutters and Meisters! And in my R7, Meisters are king, but H&N Econ II are so close behind them that you wouldn’t notice most days.
Of course, I have never seen H&N pellets at WallyWorld, either.
Learned a long time ago the days of cheap ammo – whether it be powder rounds, pellets or slugs, is over. It is more important to be able to GET the ammo when you need it.
I heard that!
But my sense of “getting a good bang for your buck” sends up a flare when I see .22 Long Rifle rimfire being offered for $0.05 per round (which includes a 40 grain slug of lubed lead, brass case, powder, and primer) compared to the price per shot of some of the premium .22 airgun ammo.
BB: As a late friend, co-worker counselor friend of mine used to say about a relapsed client: “It is the triumph of hope over experience.” Such is the quest for the cheap pellet!
When I started the adult air gun journey, it was under the tutelage of Charles Trepes who owned Precision Air Gun Sales & Service. It was an RWS Repair Shop with a small spread of upscale air guns and pellets. I learned to buy good pellets as they tended to make good shooting, and that has served me well since 1989.
I buy a tin or two of Crosman pellets but use them primarily for break in of a new springer. There is no use putting expensive H&N or JSB down the range while the springer is coming into its final form. The exact same thing goes for setting a scope; let the new piece rattle and roll and diesel about before putting on the glass – save yourself the frustration – and save the scope from the more violent oscillations.
With P/As 4-for-3 pellet deal, one can step up a bit in quality. Just watch that you buy them in like price groups in individual orders or all the “freebies” will be the “cheapies.” That’s in terms of cost but not of the quality you choose.
I tend to wholly agree with BB that JSB is a brand that one can check off as always good. Yes, I went there! Same with the H&N brand. In fact, save for some Crosman .22s for my two Crosman pieces, that’s all the second shelf lead I own.
I own an ancient Beeman Pellset that has a now well-worn ball end. It gives me a predictable seat of the skirt in the breech every time! I hear the soft “click” and I know that the head and skirt are engaged in the rifling and the skirts are out of the way of the breech seal. Consistency is the heart of shooting and the Pellset helps. BTW, since Beeman is gone, one can score an identical such tool at Rapid Air Weapons. Good folks in TN!
With good pellets hope and experience, with a tad bit of skill come together.
B.B.,
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2014/11/the-great-pellet-comparison-test-part-1/
At your service!
shootski
OhioPlinker, appreciate your mini-review of the 3622…now must resist enablement, at least for a bit. Agree about upgrading to the steel breech although not everyone does.
I am about to discover the (new to me) Discovery, and I think I may be going down the same path….
BB,
“What you intend doing with the rifle” Thats a hard one, for me anyway. Like I often said, I live in a different airgun world.
I got most of the 18 springers to add to my collection with plans of spending warm afternoons having fun shooting them, and all the others I have, when I caught up on a lifetime of unfinished projects and my life slowed down some. Right! I keep getting into new projects.
So, the answer is ,.. Fun or informal target shooting and plinking. I will probably set some aside for a specific purpose when I get to know them.
So far, I have just shot them to see if they worked and set up the open sights. No serious target shooting for accuracy in the past. Making them perform to the best of their ability will be a rewarding challenge.
Most were just not accurate enough for pesting. At least as they arrived and how I shot them. PCPs took over that job.
I now know it’s not the best thing to do with airguns and will probably have to deal with some problems later on but hopefully I will have more time to deal with that. Retirement did not turn out as I expected. My time is not my own.
I learned a lot from this Blog over the years and it continues to this day. Thank you, BB and fellow Bloggers. I really need to pull them out and shoot them some. Getting set up for that, but the rain here is never ending these days in So Cal, even as I write.
I may not have the time to get too intimate with each of those rifles, and my pistols and was looking to save time in doing so. I believe I am in the exact place I need to be for acquiring the information I need.
I am glad to see the time Tom is spending on the subject is appreciated by many others, now and in the future as well.
Once again, thank you all for contributing.
“Retirement did not turn out as I expected. My time is not my own.”
Bob M, that made me laugh, thank you!
I’ve been retired for 3 years now, and my time is definitely not my own!
My “honey do” list grows and grows and it seems I’ll never catch up on it. 😉
Yet I do manage to set aside 10 minutes to half an hour each day for airgun shooting.
It’s how I maintain my sanity…such as it is…LOL! 🙂
Blessings and happy shooting to you,
dave
Dave, your comment makes me think I have to make adjustments to the demands on my time to carve out those ten minutes for myself, too. We know the demands on Bob M’s time, and God bless him for it. Some days it seems there is not enough hours in the day to get it all done.
“Some days it seems there is not enough hours in the day to get it all done.”
Roamin Greco, too true!
Yet there’s one thing I’ve learned: there will never be enough hours in the day to get done all the things that we would like to do, or think we need to do, but, if we seek God’s will, there will always be enough time to get done all the things He wishes us to do. 😉
Amen brother! Especially appropriate as we begin the Lenten season.
🙂
B.B. I appreciate all you say, but as one relatively new here, I am confused, and I have a rant of my own.
I’m confused about the comment about scope ring height. Even on the bench, I find a proper and consistent cheek weld is needed for accuracy. So why is ring height unimportant or less important? You seem to say the opposite later in the report when it comes to hunting. My experience is that rings that are too high (or too low) can make an air rifle (or any rifle) nearly impossible to shoot. Such is my experience with a Diana 350 with a Hawke Airmax scope I bought used at auction. Shooting it was so hard, in desperation I wrapped the stock with bubble wrap to raise the comb. I was shooting from a bench.
Now the rant: I feel most buy scopes and then adapt to them rather than buy the scope and rings that fit them and their rifles. But how can they when there are no useful measurements to be able to figure out what is needed? Rings should advertise their exact height from the top of the rail to either the bottom of the scope or the center of the ring. “Low” “medium” “high” are a waste of ink, in my humble opinion. Scopes should advertise the breakdown of the length of the scope among the bells, the turret, and the tube between the turrets and the bells. Then you have half a chance to pick the right scope and ring combo the first time.
RG,
Your questions are valid, but you are not taking into account the variance of human bodies. Everyone will hold a particular air rifle differently, use a different “cheek weld”, peer along the top of said air rifle differently, etcetera.
Just looking at the picture you have attached, I personally would remove the bubble wrap, invest in some lower scope rings/mounts and rezero the scope. It looks like you would have no problem with lowering that particular scope and inch or so. The previous owner may have had a “longer” face than you or held this air rifle differently.
I do feel your pain. I have given away many sets of scope rings. I could probably stand to get rid of some more. In recent times I have planned to mount a particular scope on a particular air rifle only to find out that the rings I intended to use just were not goin to work. My biggest issue has been my “love affair” with BugBuster scopes. Trying to mount these short things on some air rifles is nigh on impossible. They just will not stick back far enough for me.
If you dig around, there are measurements to be had. I know where to look for them and still have issues. Welcome to the wonderful world of airgunning.
The bubble wrap was a temporary measure from utter frustration. The goal is to get the scope lowered and then if needed, I will add a nice leather pad.
How low can I go? That is the question that that my rant is based on. Am I feeling lucky? Or is there a way to know what rings I need?
Welcome to the wonderful world of Imperfect World, RG. Overcoming the imperfections is what makes it all fun. 🙂
FM, I’ll give you the same reply I give when someone tells me “time flies”:
Well I must be having lots of fun!
:o)
Roamin Greco,
Your frustration is understandable.
In my opinion, if you’re using a scope, picking the right scope and rings for your gun are critical since it insures a proper cheek weld and that translates into accuracy.
Which rings and which scope is a deep hole. I believe that unless you have an adjustable butt rest and adjustable cheek riser that most folks choose a scope with an objective bell that is too large to be able to properly mount it on their gun.
After choosing the right scope, which scope rings will work the best?
Here are my general thoughts….I don’t like one piece mounts since they limit positioning of the scope and placement of the mounts on the gun but sometimes it’s unavoidable. I don’t like adapters (like the UTG dovetail to picatinny on your Diana 350) because they unnecessarily raise the scope height AND I don’t like “layer caking” mounts since it creates another potential weak spot for accuracy but sometimes it’s unavoidable.
Very few vendors provide measurements for their scope rings on their sites BUT most manufacturers provide measurements for their rings on their sites. Leapers does, sportsmatch does, etc. But since everyone’s face is different, every comb height on the gun varies, the objective bell size on your scope requires a certain minimum height, etc., how do you choose the right rings for your unique situation?
Here’s a suggestion. Get a cheap pair of medium height, 2 piece rings. Install the bottoms of your rings on your dovetail or picatinny scope rail. Place your scope in the rings and loosely put the top caps of your rings on. Bring the gun up to your cheek and check eye relief. Your eye should easily align with the middle of the ocular. If it doesn’t you now have a reference point for higher or lower rings. Saddle height of 2 piece rings is your most critical measurement and this can usually be found easily online as stated above.
Thanks Kevin! Actually, I plan to switch this scope with. 2-7×40 scope that came with my TX200 Mark III, and put this scope, 3-12×50 on the TX. So that will help get the scope even lower.
I will take all your suggestions to heart and let everyone know how we do.
And then there is droop….
(Sigh)
Speaking of sproingers, this past Sunday afternoon I had spent some time on the range here at RRHFWA with my Diana 34 with the intentions of writing a Part Eight for this series. It was going to center around the various holds, including the famed “artillery hold”. Well, I did not produce one single target that I would show to anyone. It was not my day to shoot that particular air rifle. Period.
“Sometimes the dragon wins.”
At some future date, I will revisit this and try again. Right now I have several other airguns I wish to try out and I might even share my experiences with you folks.
Y’know, I would be happy to help gather the data for your Part 8….
In other news, I have a Diana 36 enroute.
RR
Being from where you are,, I would have thought you would have used the “bug and windshield” analogy with regard to winning and losing.
This time you were the bug.
Even with the most accurate rifle, the perfect pellet and performing the best hold ,, things just don’t work the way they should. You were wise enough to recognize that. Took me years to figure that out.
Ed
RidgeRunner,
These are the kind of days we learn the most about ourselves. Do we take it out on the thing or do we blanket blame ourselves. I prefer to briefly reflect on what could have caused the problem. Check stock/sight system screws and bolts first. Not that? Then i think BRIEFLY if i was the cause: not enough sleep, no (brain) focus, feeling rushed, feeling guilty, or something else in our complex (retirement) lives. Something showing?
Write it down and check for it before your next session.
You done this before just like most all of us have…IT WILL PASS!
The River of Life rolls on regardless.
shootski
And that’s what it’s all about.
On another blog someone said he thought most airguns under $500 were junk and was sick of companies making them that way. Be prepared to spend well over that for an accurate airgun and don’t waste your money. You will only have to spend it upgrading one if you want a shooter.
On the other hand, without low-cost airguns there would not be too many new air gunners.
Many years ago, I questioned why BB and everybody else spent so much time and money trying to make airguns shoot better when they could just save up and buy one that was already accurate. I actually did that with the FX Independance. But only after I had some challenging air guns first.
Trying to beat the odds of finding one that shoots great or doing your best to make it so is simply part of the sport and getting deeply involved. Tinkering! And that’s what many shooters are good at.
You might luck out and save money as well. Finding and solving problems is a rewarding experience.
Now I needed an accurate air gun for pesting and if you planned on getting into competition or had another reason for needing a “One hole wonder” it’s the way to go.
I don’t think spending hours shooting pellets through the same hole in a target would be too much fun unless you are practicing for competition. There is no challenge unless you challenge the capabilities of that one-hole wonder rifle with something like distance shooting or hard to hit targets. Then the challenge is on you and your shooting ability as well.
I think everyone should have at least one very accurate air gun for all the times you may need one, or you simply must hit everything you shoot at every time and need to know it wasn’t the rifles’ fault if you missed.
Low-cost air guns that fill a need for fun, tinkering and plinking are probably the backbone of the sport and keep it and companies going and hopefully people like BB and helpful internet posters will warn us of the real junk ones so we can avoid them. Or get them for wall decorations, door stops or whatever.
VALUE FOR MONEY
If something’s good value for money, does that mean it’s cheap?
I think your answer reflects your priorities:
For example, a “yes, that means cheap”, tells me that you place the cost of something at the top of your list, while “no, that doesn’t mean cheap”, gives me the impression that for you, non-financial considerations feature highest.
Personally, I try to perceive an item without any monetary qualities, especially airguns.
Infuriatingly when viewing the airgun market through those spectacles, one sees a lot of examples that appear to have been, in their entirety or in parts, poorly made. 🙁
A few airguns appear made the best the manufacturer was able to. I think they’re among the best. They interest me. 🙂
hihihi,
I would have to answer YES & NO. I was repeating what someone else stated.
I don’t collect $2,000.00 airguns, because of the cost. I do collect low-cost airguns, because of the cost.
If you got an airgun under $500. that can group under an inch at 25 yards I would say you got value for your money. But it’s all relative to the air gunners point of view.
However, I don’t look at it as value for your money. I would use the word performance for your money.
If you paid over $500. and it can’t keep a group under 3″ at 10 meters, you got junk. And probably not value for your money. Even if it looks nice.
I would say the word cheap only refers to the price but that often goes hand in hand with Quality.
I believe we have seen that it is possible to make low cost, airguns that can shoot well. They just choose not to do it all the time. A TX 200 that can shoot like a $2,000 PCP would be value for your money.
Bob M,
I know you have gotten a great deal of rain and not enough outside time but… “If you paid over $500. and it can’t keep a group under 3″ at 10 meters, you got junk. And probably not value for your money. Even if it looks nice.”
Three inches at 10 meters!!!
THAT is not just junk; in my book that is an ABOMINATION!
If you were to just straightline grow that to 100 it would be a 30+ MOA shooter. Better be inside the barn if you want to hit it…also be sure to close all the doors just in case. LOL!
Wishing you some SOCAL (for hihihi: SOuthern CALifornia) Sunshine at least 1/3” groups at 10 meters
shootski
hihihi,
I have a budget for shooting expenses built into my personal/family finances. I keep to the budget.
I shoot premium projectiles because i know i also have a finite budget of time for shooting.
I highly value my shooting time and can’t be bothered with the monetary cost per shot as long as it doesn’t bust either budget. So far both have remained adequate.
I believe that unless you simply cannot afford premium pellets that life is too short to blow the time shooting the likely inferior discount store projectiles or airguns/firearms.
shootski
B.B.,
The Great Pellet Comparison Test was to have at least a Part 6…and probably more since you promised to also shoot at 50! Time?
Could it be time (past time) to compare todays Sinker Larve to PREMIUM PELLETS and Bullets (Slugs)?
shootski
hihihi,
In hind sight I might have been unclear. I personally will buy junk low-cost airguns simply because it is an airgun that I believe will be an interesting item to add to my collection. Its shooting ability has nothing to do with it. It’s a curio.
Take this PO8 Artillery Version Luger. It has a matching drum magazine. It’ a green gas Airsoft pistol that I may never shoot. For a while anyway. It may be unavailable for ever if it’s discontinued.