This report covers:
- Changes in the point of impact (POI)
- Too much
- Diana 27
- Not the airgun
- Keep trying
Wow! You guys keep telling me what it is that you need. And today is a huge one brought to us by reader Hoppalong Doc, who signs as Orv.
Changes in the point of impact (POI)
Orv had asked a question about changes in his POI. He noticed that, as the temperature changes, the place where the pellet hits also changes. I told him that the air density changes with temperature and that can affect the pellet’s flight. Reader shootski told him that, as the sun heats his scope, the POI will change. Both things are true. And here is Orv’s response that prompted today’s report.
“Thank you for this, but how do I respond? If I’m shooting both my TX200 and my HW97K, one after the other, perhaps changing pellets, or perhaps not . . . at what point will the temperature be the deciding factor between gun, pellet, and temperature? How do I calculate these factors into accuracy? Perhaps I should just go out to the shade of the range and somnambulate. This I can do well. Orv.”
Too much
There are too many questions or near-questions in that comment for me to address. Here are just a few of them.
1. If I’m shooting both my TX200 and my HW97K.
2…. one after the other,
3…. perhaps changing pellets,
I won’t write out all the different questions or near-questions I see in the comment, but here is what it sounds like to me.
I can’t tell whether using the artillery hold for my springers works better for me, or putting lots of salt on my eggs at breakfast.
There are too many things happening at the same time. Different guns, pellets, etc.
I have run into this same kind of confusion thousands of times in the past and I’ve always told the person asking to please refine their question to just one thing. That one thing I might be able to address. But Orv stated his comment in such a clear way that, for the first time, I saw the issue. It’s not the airgun or the pellet or the scope or the heat we must overcome — it’s us!
When we have difficulties with shooting, we are often asking too many questions and disregarding some of the answers. This reminds me of a particular episode of an old TV show, Kung Fu. A person named Kwai Chiang Cane was training to become a Shaolin monk. His graduation test was to walk barefoot across rice paper without leaving a mark.
What this test did was focus the person on just one thing. When they focused on that one thing they saw the things they did that were right and the things that were not right.
Orv, please understand I am not criticizing you or singling you out. It’s just that from your comment I finally understood what I was doing that was wrong. I was trying to answer a question instead of trying to resolve the problem so the question would never be asked.
Diana 27
You longtime readers know that I talk a lot about my Diana 27 pellet rifle. Over the years you have learned that this air rifle is not very powerful, nor is it that accurate. It has a nice trigger but it’s not even close to the best trigger I own.
Diana 27.
My Diana 27 certainly does not look like a world class air rifle. It’s near the bottom of the pile in every performance category. But it does do one thing that none of my other airguns do. It reduces all the other problems like pellets, power, trajectory, trigger-pull and so on to just one thing — me. It’s the one pellet rifle I own that shows me what kind of shooter I am. It shows me what I’m doing right and what I need to do better. My Diana 27 is my rice paper.
Not the airgun
It’s not the airgun we need to perfect. It is ourselves! To do this I recommend selecting just one airgun and shooting it until you start to know where it will shoot before it fires. As you do this all sorts of airgun-related issues will become clear. Things like the proper hold, the best pellet, the correct trigger pull and a hundred other details will resolve themselves. Your groups will shrink and your hits will increase until you start knowing before the shot is fired where the pellet will hit.
When I shot competitive 10-meter air pistol, this happened and I could watch as each stage of perfection was achieved and passed.
Keep trying
This doesn’t mean you should only shoot one airgun. Indeed, the more airguns you try the better your chances of finding your Diana 27 — that one airgun that strips away everything and shows you to yourself. What I’m saying, grasshopper, is find your rice paper!
B.B.,
“Not everything is as [it] seems.” The essence of “wax on, wax off” is that one can learn valuable lessons from seemingly simple or mundane tasks. Or expressed another way, it means learning something important as a byproduct of doing something that is partially or completely unrelated — without realizing that you are learning something.
Genius.
Thank you Godfather!
shootski
B.B.
Last year I was shooting a match in 105 degree warmth. My HW started smoking, it never smoked before or since. Many FT shooters use a reflective cover to cover their rifles and scope when not being used between stations.
Also please tell Orv that the first several shoots with a cold rifle are just warm-ups.
-Y
Yogi,
I think you just told him! 😉
BB
Thanks, BB. I rip rice paper with most every step. Usually shots seem random, especially shooting the springers, and the Shoot-N-C ends up with holes all over. A good day is when I start to see causes for misses: this shot went right because my elbow sagged and pulled right. The next went high because I held too long, lost focus and sniped the shot. That kind of thing, which you often discuss here, usually explaining a rare missed shot.
My cheapo Beeman RS2 is accurate enough to let me have good days; but not so forgiving to make those days come easy. And when it all comes together and a shot hits the mark, I meant to do that!
Mike
B.B.,
This blog entry is excellent. Your Model 27 is the tool that you use for troubleshooting (pun not intended). Eliminate one issue at a time.
And thank you so much for bringing up memories of “Kung Fu” for me. What a great show. My relationship with it was a gauge of how much I matured by that point in my life. The series started when I was a little kid and ended when I was a preteen. Back then I liked the episodes with a lot of fighting, but I was bored by the more philosophical episodes. But by the time I was in my mid-20s and watching reruns of the series, I much preferred the thought-provoking episodes with many flashbacks to the action-packed ones. By then I had studied philosophy, history and literature, and that had changed me.
Again, thanks very much for today’s lesson, Master B.B.
Michael
It is important to focus/unfocus/refocus on those things that are the basics of it all. This is something I learned when shooting the Gamo CFX. This particular air rifle was extremely hold sensitive. If I did what I was supposed to do, I could place ten shots at twenty-five yards in a group that was completely covered by a dime. By moving the placement of my trigger hand thumb, I could move the group over one inch. It took me over a month to figure that one out.
Is a hold sensitive sproinger where you need to start? I do not know. It most certainly helps me. I am learning how to shoot the Gamo Bone Collector at this moment. It is hold sensitive. It will never likely be a good airgun to use in field target, but once you learn it, it is quite sufficient for fuzzy-tailed tree rats. Or in my particular case, feral soda cans. 😉
Orv,
“Somnambulate”. Interesting word.
Yes, we need to focus on one item at a time. Repeat doing it correctly until it becomes ingrained enough to be pretty much automatic (you tend to do it well without thinking too much about it). Then focus on one other aspect until it becomes automatic. Eventually it all comes together almost automatically. Then rinse and repeat the process and improve the items even more.
BB,
Once again, you have figuratively “hit the nail on the head”. What many need to realize it is not the destination, but the journey. If we want to be a better shot, we need to learn to shoot. That often entails learning the various nuances of each particular airgun. I use airguns as this is supposedly our primary subject here, though in this particular case it is not the airgun.
RidgeRunner,
“It is not the destination, but the journey.”
I heartily agree! That is the case in so many things. We have all heard how boring it would be if we were able to put pellet after pellet right on the bullseye every time.
I guess that is why I’ll never be bored. ;^)
Michael
That is one of the reasons I got rid of my HM1000X.
:^)
BB
Thank You for today’s blog, I’ve started my airgun journey about 18 months ago when we moved from New Jersey to NC. The one thing I learned is to focus on one major type of platform: pneumatics, One ammo type :Darts and one airgun: Daisy Model 35. The method I use is Kaitzen which is continuous improvement. This allows me to keep experimenting with very minor changes such as stance variations, dart type, different holds that has overall improved my airgun experience.This process helps with shot placement and has allowed me to shrink group sizes from 3 inches to 1 inch. Yes, I do use 10 shot groups 🙂
Your blog is filled with different ideas to improve. Thanks for helping me on my journey.
Kind Regards
jda001
Among the many variables that correlate with shooting accuracy, the me part looms large. It is why I try to minimize the me part by shooting from a rest and or the same way every shot. But dealing with all the things each gun prefers is fun and keeps my interest for a lifetime. Focusing on just one question (variable) is the only way to make progress. But changes in other variables can alter it. Is AI the answer? Quantum accuracy correlation? Airguns like the Avenge-X and ones with more than one regulator have so many settings that can be adjusted, could be useful applications for AI but accumulating and gathering data will take time before AI can help.
Deck
Deck
AI use would be interesting but AI needs to train either with proven models or data points. Articles on stance , breathing and holds are probably extensive. That might be an interesting ask of Chat- GP4.
KInd Regards
jda-001
Decksniper,
AI has the same problem as Public Health.
Regardless of how good the input it will not be very useful for treating your individual health issue(s) ever.
I will forever question the quality (or honesty) of the INPUT based on the track record of existing computational systems.
shootski
Shootski
If there is enough good data diagnosis of health problems should be enhanced by AI. Correct treatment could then be done via surgery, meds, energy rays, stretching, exercise, etc. If input data is either corrupt or misused, all bets are off.
Blood testing (lab work) is more useful than ever in the prescribing of medicines. I have been a beneficiary. I also am fortunate to have a very competent primary care physician.
Deck
Decksniper,
I don’t disagree that AI has a place in all our futures.
My experience started in the late 1970’s with what was then called Expert Systems by the computer types. It resulted in vacuum cleaner intelligence collection that was data dumped after missions. The organization that embraced that concept took the “man” out of the collection loop. It looked great in benign and routine conditions. But when hot rubber meets the road conditions surfaced it was a disaster of delayed output, circular reporting, and horrible bias blinders costing a number of aircrews their lives.
I’m certain it can be beneficial so long as folks understand it is not up to anything more than predicting based on things that have happened before. The creative or accidental stumble into new tactics will be the Achilles heel of Artificial Intelligence. I believe it will always be built on a foundation of shifting sands.
But then i could be wrong and know it…would AI?
shootski
Excellent! Loved it.
And timely for me as I’m looking at a 3622 leaning against a cabinet across the room from me. I was fuitilely attempting to sight it in for the first time yesterday afternoon, considering all the things I’d done wrong and how correct them today. Too many variables, too many moving parts. Too many bits and pieces, not all of which I’d installed/pisitioned/adjusted/tightened the way they should have been before I started slinging pellets downrange.
The Kung Fu analogy and reminisces sure brought back happy memories for me. My family moved to Tainan, Taiwan in the summer of 1972 when I was 14. I think it was in ’73 that Kung Fu aired on a local TV station, the only English language show that was on-air while we were there (a couple other US shows were dubbed in Mandarin, without English subtitles). Seem to recall it was shown on Sunday night. Everyone watched it.
Scott
“Only accurate guns are interesting” ’cause that leaves only me as the obvious source of the problems
Yeah, it’s not the gun. A friend was over for for a shooting session as he was unhappy/disappointed with his airgun and was looking for a replacement. I have a variety of PCPs for him to try, hence the visit.
I watched while he shot several (known to be accurate: typically sub 1/2″@40yards) rifles and saw that he was consistently inconsistent in his form resulting in overly large groups. I asked to try his “dud rifle” and proceeded to shoot five, 5-shot 1/2 inch ish 40 yard groups… nothing wrong with his PCP.
His confidence in the rifle has returned and he has taken ownership of the real issue. After an hours’ practice, (starting at 10 yards) he is now shooting decent groups at 20 yards and has a good idea of what to watch out for. He’s now a happy camper.
My favorite “training rifle” is my scoped FWB 300s. Being a single shot, the manual cocking and loading cycle slows the whole shooting sequence down and forces each shot to be a separate setup event. Laser accurate, stable with a superb trigger, the cause of poor shots is never in doubt
Hank
B.B. and Readership,
There is but one variable that can bamboozle EVERY shooter and make shooting forever interesting.
The WIND! IT IS the Rice Paper of shooting.
Wax on, wax OFF!
shootski
Shootski
Wind is difficult for me even at 25 yards when it reaches 10 miles per hour as measured by weather folks locally. It swirls, is not consistent and rarely comes from one direction due to land contour and lots of shade trees. It’s like #12 at the Masters golf tournament. Some days I’m just content to shoot at 10 meters.
Deck
Decksniper,
Do you have a wind yarn? (In Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas probably need to replace the yarn with a stout length of rope.) Simple ones are just a length of yarn tied to the barrel at the muzzle. Fancy ones are tied to jigs that a be seen while also sighting on the target. Detecting the WIND at the muzzle is of significantly more importance than detecting the down range WIND.
Start with that and learn your local wind strength and take notes on POI shift an amount of wind yarn displacement causes. I would bet your WIND reads will improve by at least 50% quickly.
Give it a try.
shootski
Shootski
I don’t use wind flags or yarns thinking they are useless here. Absent storms which are numerous, we don’t have Texas wind speeds. But swirling wind from different directions in my yard are daunting or so I thought. I need to try a muzzle yarn.
Happy to report a majority of days are 4-6 mph.
Thanks,
Deck
Shootski,
Deer hunting in heavy bush with centerfires wind was never a concern for POI but definitely for scent.
Shots were (typically) 25-35 yards limited by visibility and 10-15 yards for an alder-swamp crawler like myself. That’s where the big bucks always bedded and a short, double barrel 12 gauge “coach gun” shooting Breneky (sp?) slugs was the best tool for the job.
Always had a wind indicator – a small marabou feather tied with dental floss to my hunting equipment.
Found that small and large game takes note of the wind. When hunting rabbits (with a bow or pellet gun) watching the wind direction whole made a big difference to how close you could get.
Vana 2,
Feral hogs are the best smellers in my hunting experience. Wind in the face or to 90° strong crosswind was my guide; anything outside of that and it is time to move on.
In Pennsylvania slug guns were all you could hunt with for a long time for everything other than birds when i was a kid.
shootski
Decksniper,
I forgot to add to only account for FULL VALUE WIND to start don’t try for any “shading” for wind from other directions.
Full Value are for winds from about 2-4 and 8-10 O’Clock.
The zero value and partial value get added later.
shootski
Shootski
I don’t remember if you play golf. At the Masters on hole #12 tee they throw grass clippings up to observe wind direction. Winds from 12 o’clock are the most critical. But because of very tall pines and corner location the winds change directions in seconds making club selection a crap shoot.
Deck
Decksniper,
Does Chip & Putt count?
I have seen golfers do that.
I have seen hunters do that and heard the Elk or Mulies snickering in the distance out West ;^)
shootski
PS: 12 & 6 o’clock are zero values for windage corrections.
Shootski
“ PS: 12 & 6 o’clock are zero values for windage corrections.”
They are for golf ball ballistics, especially 12 o’clock wind. The definition for windage I’m using is not the term for adjusting right/left sights on a gun.
Golfers are for folks who need humbling. Golfers do include pain fetishists. Everybody knows someone who needs to play more golf.
Deck
“…find your rice paper!”
BB,
Great stuff! I get exactly what you are saying.
I grew up on that show, Kung Fu, and loved it!
That was the first martial art I studied, and it was what led me to becoming a martial arts instructor.
Thanks for the memories. 😉
Blessings to you,
dave
Orv,
I went to the range today and it took over 40 shoots for my rifle to settle in. First shoot was bang on! Next 39 were 1 1/2 inches to the right. Slowly these moved left slightly. By the 40th shoot it was back to bang on!
-Yogi
Yogi
Scope mounts? Scope spring tension?
Deck
My friends, I have several follow-up questions on this blog, but I must draw back here for a few days. In January of this year my wife had routine surgery to remove a skin cancer from her eyelid. A few days ago it was found that the cancer had returned. Two surgeries, yesterday and today, found a quickly growing cancer which hopefully has been removed. Her upper and lower eyelids have been removed. Radiation therapy will begin in mid August. Prognosis? We don’t know, except through prayer. We trust in Christ without equivocation. Surgeries later on can rebuild her eyelids. Thank you, Orv.
Orv
Your wife and you have my prayers. I have been the beneficiary of people praying for me. This power through Christ has no limits.
Deck
Orv,
Your revelation about your wife’s cancer problem has left me perplexed. I didn’t know how to answer because I cannot imagine living with my eyelids gone.
I say my prayers for healing in the morning and I want you and your wife to know that starting today I’m adding her. Hers will be special because I don’t yet know what to say. But He does, so I will listen to my heart before I speak.
BB
Hoppalong Doc,
Orv you and your spouse have been added to my prayer list.
Your trust in the Savior is well placed.
May He provide you both with the needed strength to withstand this series of trials. You are no doubt her prime caregiver so take care of yourself and reach out to friends and family for help and respite.
shootski
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmfudW7rbG0