The business end of a Daisy 104 — a double-barrel BB gun! Note the shot tubes are labeled for the side they go in.
This report covers:
- Why?
- Where were they?
- Two models — 104 was first
- Hard to cock
- Not much information
- Blue Book
- Model 21
- Plastic and paint
- Sights
- That’s all
Today we go far afield and look at the two double-barrel BB guns Daisy made — the 104 and the 21!
Why?
What possible reason is there for a double-barrel BB gun? It’s not for shooting game because it only shoots one BB at a time (from each barrel). It’s not for shooting aerial targets because it’s a BB gun. So why do double-barrel BB guns even exist? They exist because fathers had double-barrel shotguns and their sons wanted to have something like their fathers’ guns.
Where were they?
When I was a kid I knew about Daisy’s Model 25 slide-action BB guns. And of course I knew about the Red Ryder. But I never heard of the Daisy double-barrels. I’m not even sure what I would have thought had I known about them. They didn’t have conventional sights, so shooting at things was more guesswork than anything else.
Two models — 104 was first
Daisy made two double-barrel BB guns — the model 104 and the model 21. They also made a double-barrel popgun designated the Model 410.
The model 104 was the first to be offered, starting in 1938. It sold for $5 at that time. It had a wooden buttstock and forearm and the steel was blued. The 104 lasted until 1941, but only a few were made that last year. Like all other Daisy BB guns, production was halted by World War II and it never resumed. That makes the 104 a scarce (not rare, but scarce) model to find. A total of 45,822 were made. They are probably starting to become rare these days as no doubt many were thrown away or broken over the last 80+ years.
Hard to cock
The 104 was hard for kids to cock because two mainsprings had to be compressed at the same time instead of just one. The Number 25 slide action was always considered hard to cock for kids — imagine how much harder it would be to cock two powerplants at the same time! If any of our readers owns a 104, or even the model 21 I will discuss in a bit, please share with us how hard your gun is to cock.
Both BB guns were supposed to get up to 300 f.p.s. That’s pretty fast for a spring- powered BB gun, and it no doubt affected the cocking effort.
This is a Daisy model 21 cocked.
As a result of the hard cocking, many Daisy doubles have their stocks broken at the wrist. Because of that you will no doubt find some Daisy doubles with owner-made wooden buttstocks.
Not much information
I have never shot a Daisy double. I’ve never even cocked one. I have seen them at airgun shows, but that’s as close as I ever came.
Both the model 104 and the later model 21 (manufactured 1967-1969) have double triggers. Each trigger controls a different barrel.
The 104 is 38 inches long and hopefully an owner will tell us the weight.
Like the Number 25 slide-action of the 1930s, the 104 has “engraving ” on both sideplates and on the floorplate.
The most information I have found in one place about these strange BB guns is in the book, An Encyclopedia of Daisy Plymouth Guns, written by Gary Garber and published by him in 2007. If you are into Daisy BB guns, this book is a must-have! It has WAY more information about both double barrels than the Blue Book of Airguns. And now I will make a short departure from this report.
Blue Book
Sadly I must tell you that the Blue Book of Airguns is out of print and will probably never again be published in print form. The 13th edition was the last book to be published. A company bought the rights to Blue Book Publications (I think — because there are other Blue Book titles) and has taken the Blue Book of Firearms Values online.
I just discovered as I was writing this report that the new owners also have some data about airguns online, but I have no idea what their 40+ people who man the chat lines know about them. They have retitled the web pages The Blue Book of Airgun Values and it is presented as a database. I also have no clue where they are getting their pricing or other information beyond what was in the 13th edition of the Blue Book.
Model 21
Back to the BB guns. Again in the later 1960s Daisy brought out a second double-barrel BB gun — the model 21. Where the 104 was modeled after no specific shotgun that I know of, the model 21 paid homage to Winchester’s model 21 double barrel. However, the Daisy 21 was affordable and can still be bought used for $1,000 or a little less. The Winchester 21 starts at about $5,000 and quickly climbs to five figures! If you want an affordable model 21 double-barrel, the Daisy BB gun is the way to go.
The Daisy 21 also has engraved sideplates and an engraved floorplate.
Plastic and paint
Where the 104 was blued steel with a wooden stock and forearm, most 21s come with plastic stocks. Some 21s were made with wood stocks, but darned few. Gary Garber says the number might be 1,000 to 1,200. I have seen on chat forums where airgunners lamented over a thousand-dollar asking price for a wood-stocked Daisy 21. That’s like complaining about a $15,000 price tag for a used Rolls Royce! Yes it is a lot of money, but not for what it buys!
All Daisy 21s are painted. But by 1967 Daisy had perfected the process of electrostatic painting, so the finish looks good.
The model 21 is 37 inches long, so it’s close to the 104 but not the same. Just under 71,000 21s were made. The plastic buttstock is very prone to breakage, and the excessive cocking force doesn’t help things. There may be about as many 21s remaining as 104s, since the plastic buttstocks weren’t rugged.
Sights
Both the 104 and the 21 have a shotgun-style bead front sight, The 21 has a rear sight, as well! It doesn’t appear in photos to be adjustable.
That’s all
I wish I could get one of these BB guns to test for you, but at the prices they fetch that will have to remain a wish. There are so many things I would like to test. But I guess we all just need to wonder about these two unusual BB guns from the past. Or maybe someone will write a guest blog?
Maybe Daisy could bring these back? They’d be fun can killers.
OhioPlinker,
Rather doubt it. Not much of a market for it nowadays. How many adults buy a double barreled shotgun compared to a pump or automatic shotgun? And how many of those adults will have children they are willing to expose to guns? I don’t believe there is a market for these today except to collectors.
Siraniko
Tom,
So this is a scarce to rare BB gun so much so that you have only glimpsed it but not handled or even fired? Daisy really built it for fun unlike that Beeman double barrel break barrel you reviewed a few years back.
Siraniko
PS Section Why? 1st paragraph 3rd sentence, “It’s not for shooting arial (aerial) targets because it’s a BB gun.”
Siraniko,
Thanks for the correction. I actually looked this one up and got that spelling from the dictionary, but I think it used a UK spelling rather than the more common one — like colour versus color. At least that is my excuse.
BB
There’s a good video on the Daisy 21 at My Airgun Phase on YouTube. He demonstrates how to load bb’s and shoot it.
Brent
Brent,
Thanks for that. From what I saw in the video, cocking was no problem.
BB
B.B.
Any idea what the Winchester 21 sold for new in the 1960’s?
-Yogi
Yogi,
From a web search Rock Island Arsenal revealed the following:
Though the Winchester Model 21 was not officially announced to the public until January 2nd, 1931, Winchester salesmen were promoting the new shotgun as early as October of 1930. Upon its debut, the Model 21 was priced from $59.50 to $175.60, which works out to a range of $1,144.19 to $4,276.94 in today’s money. One year later, the most modestly priced Model 21 had risen to $65.50, and the cost continued to trend upward. Still, even during the worst years of the Great Depression, a reliable double gun offered the ability to hunt, and the Winchester Model 21 saw steady demand throughout the 1930s and 1940s.
After WW2, the base price for a Winchester 21 had reached over $300.00, serious money in an era when the average cost of a new car was $1,125. Each new Winchester catalog introduced new custom options that could further increase the price tag, and by the early 1960s the lowest price point for the Model 21 had jumped to $1,000.
BB
Well dang!
I remember $0,59 gallon gas, just not the Winchester 21!
-Y
Yogi,
I must be real old. I remember $0.25 per gallon.
RR,
Yeah me, too. That was when milk only came in glass bottles with waxed paper caps.
WS
Will,
You can still get milk around here in glass bottles, although the tops are plastic now. They stopped delivering it also.
RR,
16 cents.
BB
BB,
What is it now? $3.30? That is pretty cheap from what I understand.
BB,
Was that 15.9? I remember 19.9. It seems that gas prices always had a 9 on the end of them back then. I’m guessing that it was the gas tax.
Brent
Brent,
I always round that 0.9 up as my gas tanks are not large enough for the 0.1 per gallon to be a real factor. That is like today’s calculators versus slide rules. Unless you are Vulcan, what is a couple of thousandths anyway.
Gas prices still end in .9; it’s a marketing ploy. When the price ends in .9 or .49 or .99 most people focus on the dollar amount when referring to the price, forgetting the cents amount. $9.99 sounds a lot less than $10.00 for example.
BTW the current gas tax in NY is $0.2535 per gallon.
My personal best price for gas was $0.18.9, in ’72 or ’73. Two gas stations near each other were having a gas war-remember those?
About nine years ago there was a gas war between two rival stations near where I lived at the time. One of the rivals had just opened across the street from the other and the first one apparently was trying not to lose any customers. This went on for quite a while with some substantial discounts compared to most gas stations. Then apparently some idiot brought it to the attention of the news media. After a day or two of a mad rush from the masses for the low prices, the gas war ended.
FM pumped gas at a Miami (FL) station in ’68 – the price of regular was, in cents 34.9, mid-grade was 35.9 and premium 37.9; recall some customers complained about those prices, but they kept coming in because our boss required that we pump every customers’ gas, check tire pressures and fill tires as needed, clean windshields and rear glass, check all fluids and top up if necessary – customers had to pay for engine oil, of course; the only time us gas monkeys could avoid those tasks was if the driver was in a hurry and had time only for gas. All this for $1 an hour and the occasional tip.
Some stations would drop prices to as low as $0.19 a gallon when there were “gas wars” between competitors but FM’s boss always held firm to his prices because of all the services he offered the customers. Now, you pump your own gas and you better keep track of all your car’s maintenance needs unless of course you drive one of those that tells you everything you want/don’t want to know and reminds you with annoying bells, bangs, buzzes and whistles.
FM,
LOL! I was one of those gas monkeys for a while. My boss used to complain to his “regulars” that he would have to lay a paper towel on the ground to see which way I was going, all this while he sat on his pituty in the office, smoking his cigs.
I remember .25 per gal. Used to cost me .35 to fill the gas tank on the Honda 50 Sport. Don’t remember if that was high test or regular (Ethyl or Myrtle?)?
Fred formerly of the Demokratik Peeples Republik of NJ now happily in GA where gas is cheap and plentiful
Fred,
My daddy would not let me have a motorcycle when I was a kid because he went through several befor he met my mom.
I didn’t ask. The result is my old man didn’t talk to me for 4 months, his last words being, “sell it!”. Mom started crying and told me she’d buy me a Corvette (the car, not the ship). Too late. The bug had bitten me. Been riding since 1968. As for my marriage, when I proposed I told the wifey that the bike(s) come with me and never ask me to choose between her or the bikes. She wouldn’t like my choice. Hey, bluffing works in life for things other than cards.
Fred etc.
LOL! I would not dare try to bluff Mrs. RR as she would call it.
By the way, Mrs. RR made me buy the Harley.
FM’s boss was tough but fair and he would pitch in to help us greasy chimps when we had backups at the pumps. One of his pet peeves was “dirty surfaces that turn off customers;” so every day, unless it rained, we had to mop and rinse any and all concrete floors, inside and out. You could have eaten off those surfaces right after mopping and rinsing! The station is still around and once in a blue moon the FMs have filled up there.
At the pay rate back then, there wasn’t much money left over for shooting sports, powder or air-powered, but at least had saved enough to self-gift a Ruger 10-22 which will reside in Casa FM until his magazine fires its last round.
FM,
Mine would occasionally come out from behind his desk, but not often.
Yogi, I remember, as a little kid, my Dad going into the service station a mile from our house and berating the owner who had just changed the sign on the gas pumps from 27 cents a gallon to 29 cents a gallon, which my Dad thought was an outrageous price. 😉
BB,
I am really not much into bb guns, but I would like to have one of those 104s here at RidgeRunner’s Home For Wayward Airguns. I would probably have to sell all of the “old gals” here to raise enough capital to make that a reality. Like that is going to happen.
I do not even recall seeing one of these before, though I have heard of them. I have seen several of the original “Daisy” bb guns though. I just thought they were expensive.
If someone was to send a 104, or even a 21, to live at RRHFWA I do believe we could accommodate either or both here. Yes, I know Hinton is in West Virginia.
RR,
I’d rather have one of the Beeman double barrel pellet guns but that’s only gonna happen if I find one at a pawnshop or a thrift store for a good price 🙂
Brent
Brent,
Yeah, right. As they are so unusual, the pawn broker will likely look up what they are. The pawn broker may only give the owner a couple of dollars for it but will likely try to get $5000.00 for it.
Brent,
For some strange reason, I would like to have one of those things myself.
BB
I do remember shooting a double barrel BB or popgun which may have been a Daisy. Some cousin or kid in the neighborhood had one. This would have been about 1947. Whatever it was it wasn’t hard to cock. At age eight I was big for my age so that may explain it. I don’t remember ever shooting pest birds with it. I shot my first dove at that age with dad’s .20 gauge Parker Trojan double. The fascination with double barrels was exactly as you describe it.
When was the popgun made?
Deck
The cocking link to the receiver in your picture above is more robust than I remember. There may have been two thin cocking links in whatever I shot long ago. Likely a popgun by some maker.
Deck
I don’t remember ever being aware of any double barrel BB guns. Double barrel shotguns and over/under (shotgun/.22 rifle) guns are what I remember from my youth. Now, that’s an idea… how about an over/under Airgun? Has that been done before?
Elmer Fudd,
Tom documented one years ago https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2016/09/beeman-double-barrel-air-rifle-part-4/
Siraniko
Thanks, that is an interesting series of reports!
BB,
Oh how I dream of one of these. I never owned one but wanted it. I did have a double barrel cork gun :). I never seen the Daisy in real life till I was much older. I believe that was at an Airgun show in (around) Little Rock AR. I think they look so cool. Heck I’ve only seen a couple Crosman Pump C02 shotguns. I also think they are very cool.
Doc
BB,
These double barrel BB guns are a treat! A kid would have a lot of fun getting good at making cans dance with a nice one-two, mini salvo. I think I would have fun doing that today!
Still enjoying popping targets outside with the Daisy 25s. In the neighborhood, striking a metal can with a BB is a little bit loud, at least to my ears. So to as an alternate, I made two, 3″ (7.5cm) diameter leather pads to hang on a string and the sound of a solid hit seems just right; a good thwack!
Fused pellets from my duct seal pellet trap were crimped onto the string with pliers, to keep the pads in position along the string. It gave me a chuckle to think “fishing weight larvae.”
Regards,
Will
Thanks for the pic. Cool target.
Pity nobody made an over-under BB “shotgun”! That would have been cool!
-Y
FYI https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1064104370
Am I the only one here who has one?
Found one in Dallas at a pawn shop. I had never seen or heard of one before. At first I thought it was too expensive, but I also figured I would never see another, so… It followed me home dear? (Actually I sent my 20something son over to buy it… It was a gift, dear!) $400 out the door in 2018.
Condition is better than the one on auction site above. No rust, a small dent, missing some screws in stock, and front sight was broken – like it slipped down from a wall and hammered the bead into the holder. Stock was a little swollen like the one on site above.
I couldn’t stand it, you guys bringing it up, so I got him down gave him oil in BOTH “Oil Here” holes, and went to the back yard. My favorite action target is a plastic coke bottle hanging at about 18 yards. I could hit it about 30% of the time, sometimes with both barrels. I was guessing at Kentucky windage since I have not replaced the bead yet….
BB, you asked about the cocking effort. It is STOUT! I measured more than 10lb at the tip of the stock to start the cocking stroke, and more than 20lb when the stock is at 90 degrees to complete the stroke. I actually gave up before I emptied the magazines. Thing wore me out. Stout, I tell you. But it is a lot of fun to shoot! 2 shots per stroke!
It has a break open lever like a firearm, you have to thumb it to left or right to break the action before starting to cock it. It also has an annoying automatic safety that moves to SAFE when you cock it, And you can’t reach it with right hand trigger finger, it is on the other side above / ahead of the triggers.
It may be that the Model 21 did not have the L and R on the barrels, maybe someone knows for sure. Mine has the spring BB capture magazines, not the current magnetic ones. I am not sure they are original, but they are not marked L/R. Actually I found this blog because I was searching for why they were marked L/R.
Mine has a Reg. No. C1864, maybe someone knows how to decode that for an actual manufacture date. Definitely pre- 1972..
BudofKV_TX,
Thanks for all that info.
The 50-shot BB shot tube are correct for the 21. Only the 104 shot tubes are marked left and right. And thanks for giving the cocking effort.
BB