This report covers:
- Not that simple
- Church security training
- Weird pistol hold
- Why?
- Other wrong holds
- Correct hold
- Aftermath
- Trigger finger note
- Summary
Today we talk about how to hold a handgun.
Come on, BB. How simple can you get? Are you next going to remind us when to breathe?
Not that simple
I admit, I thought this subject was too simple, too, and then I had my face pushed into the reality that it isn’t. People don’t know how to hold handguns — many people.
Church security training
A few weeks ago I attended a training session for my church security team. It was hosted by our local police department. They train security teams from all sorts of organizations.
Our training was one in which we faced active shooters in a variety of situations. It was all done in a classroom with a video scenario we had to deal with projected on one wall. The training was one-on-one and the person being trained used a training handgun that projected a laser against the wall where the scenario was showing. It interacted with the video in real time. Cops train this way a lot and I have to admit that I learned a lot about myself that day!
Weird pistol hold
After we had gone through the scenario each person sat down in the room and watched others on the team go through it. While that happened I watched one of our team members draw the training gun and hold it in an odd and self-defeating way.
This is how the shooter held the pistol. When the pistol fires the slide will either come back and cut the shooter’s hand or it won’t be able to cycle at all.
Why?
I wondered why the shooter held the pistol that way. It turned out the shooter grew up shooting a Ruger Mark II Target pistol and held it that way. You can get away with that because the barrel is exposed, but with a 1911-type pistol it won’t work.
This is why the shooter held the pistol wrong.
Other wrong holds
It turns out this isn’t the only wrong pistol hold you will see. How about a two-hand hold with the bracing hand behind the slide?
Here is another way to hold a pistol incorrectly. This one will really hurt!
Correct hold
For defense shooting a two-hand pistol hold is quickest and most accurate. Both hands must be away from the slide, if there is one. I put one hand over the other in front of the triggerguard. I push my shooting hand forward into my off hand.
This is one way to hold a pistol with two hands. It’s not the only way, but it does work well.
Aftermath
The shooter who held the slide had never fired her 9mm defense pistol that way. The pistol was carried for years but never fired. Out of 18 folks in the training about one-quarter had not shot a handgun in years. Our security team learned a lot more than we bargained for that day!
Trigger finger note
In all the photos above I have my finger on the pistol’s trigger. That’s wrong unless you are shooting, which I wasn’t. I did it to show you everything about the pistol holds I demonstrated.
Summary
Yes, holding a handgun correctly is fundamental and you would be surprised by how many don’t know how to do it.
YIKES! And I thought I had issues using handguns effectively!
BB,
On one hand, scary, but on the other, not that unexpected.
That is the reason that there is training, so that the trainee is at least shown how things are meant be done.
‘You don’t know what you don’t know.’ (And can’t know, unless you receive training.)
All the best.
Bill
Yes, keep hands and fingers away from moving parts.
Words t live by…
Happy weekend,
-Yogi
Words to live by…..
-Y
Yogi,
Triggers move! ;^)
Enjoy your weekend (What are those anyway?) as well.
shootski
It’s not just civilians.
I have had the opportunity read interagency reports before.
These accounts happened over 30 years ago.
A police officer in Crowley, Louisiana, fresh out of the academy.
Cocked his revolver in a confrontation, didn’t know how to de cock it, so he wrapped a handkerchief around the hammer and exposed firing pin (Smith & Wesson model 15) put it back in his flap holster and finished his shift, and asked the deskSergeant how to uncock it.
Two detectives in New Orleans, with 16 years experience between them were issued an Ithaca 37 shot gun and 5 rounds of ammo for a stake out.
At the end of the shift they turned in the shotgun and 4 rounds.
They said they were only issued 4 founds.
Eventually they owned up to it.
After the stake out, they wanted to unload the shotgun.
They were able to fish the 4 rounds from the magazine tube using car keys.
But didn’t know how to get the one out of the chamber.
They eventually fired it into some trash bags that were stacked against a dumpster behind a business.
Yes they are out there and we just don’t where and who….
Happy Friday!
Ian
Ian,
That scares me!!!
As well, it should.
Many people are under the impression that law-enforcement are highly trained professionals, by and large many of them are trained professionals.
But (And that’s a very big three letter word). .
All we have to do is watch the video for the recent presidential assassination, attempt and look at the Secret Service Actions.
When things go bad you automatically switch to what you’ve trained to do, and the video shows many of these people had had very little Practical stressful protective training.
At the level they operate at protecting current and former presidents they should be at the pinnacle Protective training.
Always remember, there’s always someone who graduated last in their class.
Sorry for the choppy answer.
I am driving and Siri is not helping me.
She does not speak, southern!.
Happy Friday Everyone!.
Ian
45Bravo,
“Always remember, there’s always someone who graduated last in their class.”
Ian, always remember someone always graduates first in their class.”
In the training of Naval Aviators we learned that aviators at both ends of the grading spectrum statistically proved to NOT be the best or most successful aviators.
shootski
That’s a full spectrum answer.
Arrogance at one end and incompetence at the other.
Ian.
“Highly Trained Professionals”?…
You wouldn’t happen to watch Paul Harrell videos, would you? 😉 (RIP Paul 🙁 )
If so, you know what voice that particular line was read in LOL…
Heartily agree,
Jesse
Absolutely agree on Paul’s voice tone when saying that. RIP Paul.
Yes, I too will miss Paul; I loved watching all his videos!
Yes, I have been a long time subscriber to Paul’s channel and occasionally use some of his quotes in my blogs like “not enough difference to make a difference” and things like that.
It is sad to hear his passing.
He will be missed.
Ian.
Happy Friday! Some unsolicited advice from FM – 1) Do not ask Siri or Alexa how to hold a handgun; 2) Do not ask them who you should vote for… 😉
FawltyManuel,
See me mess up big time using the information from an AI Overview on an internet Search Engine down below.
NOT doing that again!
shootski
Ian and BB
By God, what you both present today is absolute horror. Imagine these certain persons from the church “security team” having to deal with an actual gun fight situation! They would be the first to leave this world and probably make the criminals even more determined to kill anyone in the church. And please don’t tell me that the one and only shot from these “team” members would make a difference.
I also can’t imagine how can one become a police officer without the common sense, iq or knowledge how to use a revolver.
And these situations exist in the most gun friendly, in general, nation…
Bill,
In the District of Columbia we just had an officer with almost thirty ears of experience be killed trying to retrieve a handgun from a storm drain with a “Slim Jim” a tool used by locksmiths as well as crooks to open locked vehicle doors.
The pistol fired one round into his head!
shootski
shootski,
The man who arranged the training for us is a retired cop. He often tells the story of two LA cops killed in a gunfight because they were picking up the empty brass their handguns ejected — DURING THE GUNFIGHT! Their range officer made them pick up the empty brass after they shot so there wouldn’t be any empties left on the range and when things got serious they defaulted to their “training.”
BB
I have read that account before as well.
Yes you fight like you train.
Ian.
[Forehead slap]
Bill,
Policework is NOT what most of the citizenry believe it to be! There is no mandate, and never has been, to protect individuals.
Also, Defund the Police, is a recent addition to the problem.
shootski
Tom,
Maybe that’s why pistol caliber carbines are popular to lower the training requirement for competency? Talk about what is old is new again. Wasn’t this the reason the M1 carbine was developed in the first place?
Siraniko
Siraniko,
The old lever action rifles of the West were also in pistol calibers. That way the cowboys could carry a “common” ammo.
If my rememberer is working correctly, the M1 carbine was developed to allow rear troops to have something light to carry that was far less cumbersome than the Garand and its ammo.
BB,
You should also instruct the masses in the safe way to hold and fire a revolver. Many do not realize that with almost all revolvers there is usually a gap between the end of the barrel and the cylinder. This is one reason that only in Hollywood can revolvers be silenced.
When I was a lot younger, a friend of mine burned the end of his thumb while using a two-handed hold when his revolver fired. Because it was a good bit older and worn some, I also had the pleasure of digging a shard of lead out of his thumb. Fortunately for him it was only a .22LR pistol.
I am an air gunner exclusively despite owning my late father’s WW2 Japanese trophy, an 1893 revolver made in Nagoya around 1939 (the Year of the Dog). It has been fired A LOT but back in the ’30s and ’40s in Korea and likely China by a Japanese Imperial Army officer? I haven’t looked for ammunition for it and it appears to be ever so slightly “out of timing,” and could be dangerous. Anyway…
My neighbor and fellow congregation member hunts deer with a magnum pistol. He affirmed the position that one cannot safely use a two-hand hold without being extremely careful due to the gas escape at the cylinder/breech alignment gap. His pistol could cut off a finger, he believes, given the very high pressure of the round let off at the cylinder/breech gap that, in his pistol, is within engineering specs.
When people are ignorant of the vagaries of anything, but particularly of weapons, bad, bad things are likely to happen. I am inclined to think that arms ownership might benefit, in this country, from some basic safety education courses prior to ownership.
LFranke,
Part of me does agree with you. There is another part of me that thinks too many of the wrong thinking people have been allowed to live and breed. Unfortunately, that group seems to be in the majority at this moment. My only hope and prayer is that they may one day learn the truth.
This subject reminded me of something I read a while back in a book by Paul Landis (who was a special agent of the Secret Service in the follow-up car in Dealey Plaza, Dallas TX, on 11/22/63) during the JFK assassination. Here is a passage from his book “The Final Witness”:
“We spent an hour and a half reviewing slow, timed, and rapid firing using only a single-handed grip. No such thing as a two-handed grip existed at that time, and all practice was from a standing position only. If I wanted to be on protection, I would have to be able to score and maintain an “expert” rating of 270 out of 300, with both right and left hands.”
They carried a .38 special revolver. But used a .22 caliber revolver for practice because the ammo was less expensive. I thought it was interesting that they were required to be more than just proficient (expert rating) with each hand.
US Army Marksmanship Unit [USAMU] is an excellent resource on handgun shooting. Basically, it says hold with the second and third fingers. Hold so tight that your hand shakes and then relax until it stops shaking. Two hand is like your last picture. This approach also works for service rifles — not the ‘artillery hold,’ but it is great for high power.
B.B.,
I don’t believe i have ever given you a BZ for a Blog since you are paid to provide them; today is different!
BRAVO ZULU
shootski
WOW!….
I cannot help but wonder-where did these folks ‘learn’ to grip/use a handgun anyway!?….
The preponderance of absolutely ridiculous practices demonstrated on TV and no doubt video games (I don’t play them) probably don’t help…
I just really don’t understand how a person could choose to carry a firearm, for self-defense purposes, without having even tried to learn how to shoot at all well!….
After all, you have obviously decided that you are/were going to take a prospective risk to your life seriously enough to warrant carrying a deadly weapon-but yet don’t find it necessary to learn to use the very tool you may depend on to save you to begin with?…
Just boggles my mind… : /
NRA online basic pistol course anyone?….
Jesse
*** How simple can you get? Are you next going to remind us when to breathe? ***
An interesting blog on how to hold a pistol and comments about what can go wrong if you don’t know what you are doing.
Thought I’d approach the “simple” part of the discussion differently as I’ve seen many people in many instances assume that “simple” means that the operation/action (like breathing) does not require any thought or consideration… I disagree. Apart form something like breathing which is controlled by our autonomic nervous system most actions benefit from attention to detail.
For instance, a punch is just a punch. The arm swings the fist to the target and the power comes from the strength of the arm. Simple, right? Well, no. In the martial arts we are taught that a punch is done with “hip”. The power for the punch comes from the floor and is amplified by the leg muscles, hip rotation and arm. White-belts (newbies) are allowed to flail away at a heavy bag because they can’t hurt themselves. Yellow-belts are not allowed to use the bag until they learn the proper technique as they are starting to tap the power that could do serious damage to their hands and wrists. The power of a punch from a trained martial artist is orders of magnitude above that of an untrained person because they have learned the small details and then, a punch is just a simple punch again.
My point is that the difference between adequate and exceptional is attention to the simple things. With direct reference to airguns and shooting, the difference between so-so groups and exceptional ones are attention to all the little things.
There’s no magic bullet or gun or scope that will make someone a great shot. If you want to improve your shooting, revisiting the basics – stance, breathing, tension, focus, holding, sighting, breaking/releasing the shot, and follow through plus practicing will get you there.
Anyone can discharge a gun. Using one safely and effectively is recognizing that in spite of appearing simple there’s a lot more to it.
Done rambling, have a great weekend!
Hank
So true, and so applicable to many things in life!
Hank,
Not so much rambling, as a very good description of training towards excellence.
I heard a quote referring to the earning of a black belt – “I think that I wore grooves in the air.” (Lots of repetition of the correct moves.)
Good practice, until it no longer requires thought, leads to good results. (But always be a thoughtful practitioner.)
Have a good weekend.
Bill
B.B. and Readership,
I still believe that Tom’s Blog deserves a BZ…here comes the shootski BUT:
How many of you know what is wrong in the photographs B.B. hand posed for? Before you read on take a look and see (not the finger on the trigger Tom already covered that.) what you can find?
So picky shootski wouldn’t immediately FEAR for HIS LIFE in any of the Colt 1911 photos.
Please note in all of those the hammer is down. The 1911 is almost always a SAO (Single Action Only) pistol.
The Firearm’s condition could be Condition 2 or 3 and not READY to shoot; to bad we cannot see the thumb safety as well!
In Condition 2, the pistol’s hammer is down on a live round in chamber, safety lever on, with a full magazine in place.
In Condition 3: a magazine is inserted, slide forward, chamber EMPTY, SAFETY LEVER ON.
shootski
OK, picky shootski. But if someone is pointing a pistol at me, I don’t really care to ask if the hammer is up or down or condition 1, 2, or 3. I’m not gonna wait to find out. AND I don’t care where the shooter’s support hand is. If someone is pointing a gun at me, I’m assuming my life is in imminent threat of ending. Am I wrong?
Roamin Greco,
You are not wrong in my opinion…
i’m probably not one of the twelve that will be called to judge you and hopefully not one of the six that might be called on to carry you to your final resting place.
I wrote my CONDITION 1 warning to make clear how i feel about the issue.
shootski
Perhaps my ignorance is showing, but I thought it was impossible to engage the thumb safety on a 1911A1 (or most any 1911 platform?) unless the hammer is ‘pulled back’ (not sure the correct term is allowed here)?…
Genuinely curious 🙂
Don’t own a 1911 BTW!….
At least not a ‘real’ one, got a real purdy BB replica that is quite fun to shoot though…
Jesse
JuryRigger,
Jesse i am RED FACED!
I don’t carry in either of those conditions so i did a search to check.
I should have used this one: https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/conditions-of-readiness-for-the-1911-pistol/
But instead used this AI Overview to copy the definition: “Condition 2 carry is a method of carrying a firearm with a round chambered, a full magazine in place, the hammer down, and the safety on.”
The same incorrect information for Condition 3.
JUST another case of AI not being TRUSTWORTHY.
I took out my Kimber 1911 and ran it for real to confirm and your are correct with a real firearm. My Kimber is safely back in Condition 1
aka: Cocked and Locked.
thanks Jesse,
shootski
It’s no biggie, I know what you mean about AI…
(Artificial Ignorance?)…. 😉
Regards,
Jesse
B.B. and Readership,
For many decades shootski has been carrying a full size USM 1911 A1 and it is always in CONDITION 1
BE WARNED
shootski
Personally, I have always liked the 1911A1.
There is something to be said for a pistol that was carried by our military in war after war for so many years. You old geezers out there will remember there was no such thing as a “double tap” until the US military went to the puny 9mm.
Why are those allowed to once again use the .45ACP, do so?
RidgeRunner,
Like the snake?
The slide on my Kimber is tight and the barrel to slide fit is perfect enough to not rattle but still run reliably when reasonably dirty from a shooting sesion of 100+ rounds.
If i need to shoot more than 100 rounds in a gunfight i should have had an automatic rifle! Oh! And a few more shooters on my side of the fight.
shootski
RidgeRunner,
Familiarity, Functionality, FUN if it Fits your hands.
shootski
shootski,
Does it rattle?
I don’t think Kimbers rattle. They are among the finest production 1911s available. At least, that’s what the marketing says.
Roamin,
Kimbers are very good, but they’re not the finest. Wilson Combat and a couple others vie for that spot.
BB
Thanks for the correction, B.B. I have heard of Wilson Combat, but I had thought of them as semi-custom guns, rather than high-end production guns. My mistake.
Roamin Greco,
If i didn’t already have my Kimber, Wilson Combat would be among my top pics for a production gun.
But if i had way more money Les Baer: https://www.lesbaer.com
Is what i would go to for a Custom build. I visited the shop a few years back and really liked what i saw.
shootski
Roamin Greco,
The rattle check doesn’t tell you much directly. Some 1911 are “clapped out” but others will run and be accurate.
What is causing the rattle is important to discover in a defensive carry/home protection gun for obvious reasons.
shootski
RG,
The idea of it rattling some is that the tolerances are loose enough that the pistol will function even if it is drug through the mud, etcetera. I know and have shot some very tight 1911A1’s in my time. If you have the time to clean them good, they are great. If it rattles a little, it will not likely jam when you need it.
And then it was the Glock.
Beautiful as a custom made 1911? No by far. But it also doesn’t know terms like “conditions of carry”, “tight tolerances”, “reliability upgrades” and so on. An absolutely user friendly tool for the certain task. Pick the size/caliber you need/like/prefer and the rest is up to you.
Uh-oh. This could get uglier than politics…
Glock vs. 1911.
For me there’s no debate. As much as I appreciate Glock’s features the 1911 will always be one of the reasons I would like to live in the States. A tool as perfect it may be can never have the appeal of an icon.
After all as RR might point out;
To each his own.
Bill,
I have never even handled a Glock. I am not saying it is not a good pistol. My liking the 1911A1 is for two main reasons, caliber and simplicity. In one thing you are correct, to each his own.
RR
Probably there are more things that I am correct, according to your thinking of course. I mentioned pick a caliber; may I suppose that you prefer 45acp? Glock it is then. Simplicity? Can you please tell me something simpler, firearms regarding, than pull the trigger and fire? Condition one in 1911 is certainly far behind.
My friend, excuse me if you find the term inappropriate, you don’t understand that we have the same thinking. We just love the 1911. Period.
Roamin Greco,
Not on my account :^)
Glock is the new kid on the block with at least a little (since 1987) street cred. I wouldn’t mind auditioning a GLOCK 17L Gen5 MOS for a few months!
Remember i and my family own a number of Sigs and my daughter carries at least two Glocks on duty.
That doesn’t take away from anything John Moses Browning did around the dawn of the Twentyfirst Century compared to a bunch of folks after him to include Gaston Glock.
shootski
PS: As well as S&W
Guys,
I showed the 1911 because my Glock is a 36 that’s too small for the photos. My hands would have hidden the gun.
BB