This report covers:
- Pyramyd AIR Cup
- How light?
- What’s heavy?
- Why?
- The release
- Secret number one — is the release crisp?
- Geissele trigger
- Secret two — load stage one
- Target air pistol
- Training
- Too much
- Are single-stage triggers useable?
- Summary
Pyramyd AIR Cup
If things went to plan Ian McKee and I are on the road, heading toward the 2024 Pyramyd AIR Cup in Marengo, Ohio. We left yesterday morning and should be there tomorrow. I’m stopping in Louisville to see my boys today. The rest of this week through next Tuesday you will read reports that were written a week or more ago, so I could take this trip. The blog doesn’t stop just for BB to travel. Therefore please understand why my answers to questions will be short and may come at odd hours.
How light?
A couple weeks ago reader RidgeRunner wrote a guest blog about his Webley Tomahawk in which he said its 3-pound trigger pull was too heavy. Do you remember the image he showed us?
RidgeRunner told us three pounds was too heavy for a trigger pull.
What’s heavy?
Today I want to talk about trigger pulls because three pounds doesn’t sound heavy to me. Yet I know that it can be! This is one of those “it depends” issues.
Many years ago reader Kevin stopped by my house on his way home from buying an airgun collection. He showed my wife and me several of his more exotic finds. Then we sat and talked a bit. The subject of trigger pulls came up so I showed him the Wilson Combat CQB 1911 my wife had given me the previous Christmas. I let him try the trigger. When I asked him how much he thought the pull was, he guessed one pound. I then handed him a trigger pull gauge to test it and it measured three pounds.
The Wilson Combat 1911s all come from the factory with two-stage triggers adjusted to perfection. They feel much lighter for reasons I will reveal.
Why?
How can a three-pound trigger be mistaken for a one-pound trigger? Nobody has a calibrated trigger finger but we ought to be able to tell the difference between one pound and three — right? Maybe not, as you will see.
The release
The release is that point at which the trigger allows the gun to fire — whatever that means. Some guns release a piston that is driven forward to compress air to push the pellet. Other guns release a striker. That striker hits the valve stem, pushing the valve open for a short time to release compressed air that drives the pellet out the barrel. Crossbows triggers release the bowstring that pushes the bolt or arrow forward on its way to the target. The point is, triggers release something.
Secret number one — is the release crisp?
If the release is crisp the trigger feels predictable to the shooter. That feeling of predictability is essential for accuracy, irrespective of how much effort it takes. What I’m saying is a five-pound trigger can feel more precise than a two-pound trigger if the release is crisp. A case in point is the AR-15 National Match trigger that has a specified breaking weight of 4.5 pounds. I have one on my AR-15 and it’s set to National Match specifications. Most shooters unfamiliar with a great trigger will estimate the let-off of this trigger at less than two pounds.
Geissele trigger
My AR-15 trigger was made by Geissele. Read what they say about it.
“The Geissele Hi-Speed Service [Trigger] is designed for NRA High Power Service Rifle competition. It is an approved trigger for use in CMP sanctioned competitions such as: National Trophy, NTIT and all Excellence In Competition matches. Service Rifle competitions require military-based weapons to meet certain criteria, one of which is a minimum trigger pull weight of 4.5 lbs. Our Service Rifle Trigger includes our exclusive 5-Coil trigger spring which will give a nominal 4 lbs. on first stage. The Service trigger pull weights are biased with most of the pull weight on the first stage. This will allow a light second stage with an icicle-sharp break, effectively giving your weapon a match-grade trigger let-off. “
Secret two — load stage one
Secret number two was revealed by Geissele in that paragraph and illustrates why single-stage triggers are not as favored in bullseye matches as two-stage triggers. When stage one contains the majority of the pull weight, stage two feels like a glass rod breaking when it releases. Or, as Geissele says, “an icicle-sharp break.” If RidgeRunner’s three-pound trigger on his Webley Tomahawk was set up that way he would have thought it was set much lighter. That’s how the trigger on my Wilson Combat CQB is set.
Can an owner adjust the first stage out of the trigger? On many he can. With a well-made trigger stage one can be adjusted out, making the trigger a single-stage unit. But if that’s done the precision of the release is compromised.
Target air pistol
Ten-meter target air pistol triggers are required to release at not less than 500 grams. That’s just under 18 ounces or one pound two ounces. But anyone who has tried the triggers on a world-class 10-meter target pistol the first time will tell you the pistol fired before they were ready. Even the IZH 46 and 46M triggers do that, and they are not world-class target pistols.
I typically set my FWB P44 trigger with 480 grams in stage one and I set it to release around 510 to 520 grams. When it’s set that light it’s extremely difficult to test without the trigger releasing. The test is to lift a 500-gram weight without releasing the trigger. Officials will retest a trigger two times for a total number of three tests before disqualifying the air pistol. When the trigger is set to release at less than 510 grams it can be extremely hard to test. That’s why I set mine to release at 510-520 grams. Watch this video to see how anal this trigger test is.
See how anal 10-meter pistol trigger testing is in competition? But there is even more. A world-class target air pistol will have a small groove cut across the trigger blade, because where the knife-edge of the trigger weight test rod is placed affects the test result. Remember that the length of a lever (trigger blade) affects the force applied.
The knife edge of the trigger weight test rig has to be in the groove on the trigger blade for the test to be official. Can you say anal?
Training
After days of training your trigger finger becomes so sensitive that you can hold stage one until the sights align perfectly with the bullseye and then “think” the shot off.
Too much
What I’ve just described is far too sensitive for the trigger on a sporting air rifle or pistol. I read on forums where shooters say they have their sporting triggers set to release at 8 ounces and less. Those are accidents just waiting to happen.
The reason they get away with it is they set the trigger that way and then shoot from a bench. They might be able to control it there. But when they shoot offhand they lack the days of training just described and they become extremely dangerous.
Also, many of those airgun triggers have direct contact sears that are unsafe at anything below about three pounds. They need a larger contact area for the sear. The trigger on target air rifles and air pistols does not contact the sear directly. So it’s safe to set it to a light release.
Are single-stage triggers useable?
In certain circumstances single-stage triggers are as useful as two-stage triggers for matches. The Remington model 37 .22 caliber target rifle had a single stage trigger called the Miracle Trigger. You press it and the trigger blade never moves. The rifle fires when the pull weight is reached. It’s like stage two of a target trigger. For those liking single-stage triggers this is about the only one that’s useful on a target rifle.
You can also think of a double set trigger (DST) this way. When set the trigger on a DST is a super sensitive single-stage unit. It works but it takes some familiarization to use safely.
Summary
There is more to cover. In the next part you’ll learn what it is that I don’t like about some of the triggers on modern sporting airguns — and even why the Avenge-X trigger is less than optimum in my opinion. This should be a fun report series.
For many years trigger pull was not a big thing for me. I was spoiled by the trigger on my FX. Never gave it a second thought, it worked great. The other airguns were not used for target practice or pest control. OK, the Diana P5 Magnum pistol was occasionally used for close up pesting and it worked well also.
It wasn’t until I tried precision target shooting with your average break barrel rifle that it became pretty much the most important part of shooting. Without a clean breaking totally predictable trigger release, you are just hoping you get a tight group.
I don’t think the second stage pull weight matters all that much, unless it’s to light and causes misfires. As long as it stops trigger travel and releases it the micro-second you pull on it, that glass thing, you should be a happy shooter not even giving it a second thought. Just concentrating on the target and when to pull the trigger is a lot more … ‘Funner’
In my opinion you would be wasting your time trying to do serious shooting without a good trigger.
BB,
Figured out what was “Enhanced” on my Enhanced Colt Mk IV ‘Series 80’ 45 ACP.
It’s Stainless steel, with black wrap around soft grippy grip cover, passive firing pin safety change and the breach is factory throated to work well with jacketed hollow point ammo. Not sure of any trigger work. Outstanding pistol with no feed problems.
Enjoy the Pyramyd AIR Cup !
Tom and Ian,
Have a safe trip and a great time at the Pyramyd AIR Cup.
Siraniko
A bit? off topic, been a while.
Just watched a video of a new Shelby GT 500 with over 1000HP passing many people on a three-lane highway at over 120mph. He obviously overlooked the danger of someone turning into his lane ahead at 60mph. Seems to be an overlooked situation.
When that driver looks into his rear-view mirror prior to changing lanes the GT500 was a football field behind him. Plenty of room and time to change lanes, right? Not so, that GT 500 could be 50 feet behind him doing 120mph when he switches lanes and gets in front of him.
Without a lane or place to divert to and enough time to do it, all hell will break loose for the Shelby.
I was in that situation a long time ago as a passenger going 120mph. The driver was ticked off that someone had “Cut him off”, until I pointed out that driving 120mph changes everything on the road. Especially dangerous or deadly when riding a crotch rocket… motorcycle.
Even professional race car drivers have to obey pit road speed limits for safety reasons. I think that the general gist of your explanation applies to typical pit road activities also. I once witnessed a motorcyclist rapidly passing me (I was doing ~75 mph on a busy 10-lane wide interstate highway) while doing a wheelie. A girl was right behind him on another motorcycle (but not doing a wheelie). That was many years ago and I still cringe when I think about the danger of it.
People that do those types of things are not only endangering themselves but everyone else that happens to be nearby. I had previously witnessed a 10-car pile up on that same stretch of highway. The crash began right in front of my car (going ~70 mph) and it was a miracle that I wasn’t right in the middle of the crash.
Normal day commuting on the Houston.highway system. I am a Machinist/Millwright in a refinery and the most dangerous part of my day is the commute.
B.B.
Single stage or double stage? All that matters to me is that I know exactly when the trigger will release.
EXCACTLY!
-Yogi
Yogi,
I do understand.
Why can’t they all be “match grade triggers”?
-Y
$$$
Let’s see, most HW rifles are $600+. Air Arms are $ 1,000+.
We are already paying the $$$….
-Y
Yogi, you are right. At those prices, you are already paying for a Rekord trigger and the Air Arms version. I don’t know about you, but my Beeman R7 (HW30S) shoots better than I do and is one of my most precise airguns at 10 yards. My Air Arms TX200 Mark III is even better. I can’t complain about their triggers. But true match-grade airguns cost a LOT more, and their triggers are even more finely adjustable. If I wanted to be that serious about putting one pellet after another into a .177-sized hole, I would get an airgun with all the precision-enhancing bells and whistles…and spend even more money.
RG,
Go find yourself a Diana 6G. It should be cheaper than HW’s and the AA guns.
Its trigger makes those triggers seem like they are made out of stone!
-Y
OK. No problem. Can I borrow yours?
RG,
I do not have one! I have a RWS 5G and a Diana 10M. Buy your own you cheapskate!
Ask B.B. to borrow his?
-Y
Yogi, I’m chuckling at this banter we are having. Have you ever shot a 6G? How much better is the 6G trigger than your 5G or 10M?
RG,
I only chose the 6G because it should be the cheapest-your favorite word- airgun that has a truly AMAZING Match trigger. You already said that you could not afford something like B.B.’s FWB P44. Otherwise, open the Piggy Bank and go for it!
If other can come up with a truly AMAZING match trigger for less, I’m all ears?
B.B. perhaps a good topic for a blog? Not pretty good, not good, excellent or better!
-Y
RG,
Not sure if you have ever been to an airgun show? If not, put it on the calendar.
You should be able to find anything you want, including an airgun with an excellent trigger for a good price. Plus, they are fun!!
-Y
I like to use the word “value.” I don’t mind paying for expensive things, if you get what you pay for. But if you can get a discount as well, I’m in! Like H&N Econ II pellets. In some of my guns they are the best value, shooting almost as good as the best pellet, for 1/3 the price.
When the airgun fund has been replenished, and I catch up with a few items on the “honeydew” list, I will try to make my way to an airgun show, or maybe I’ll organize my own here in Northwest Pennsylvania.
About the closest thing I have to match trigger would be on a Winchester 333, which is a Diana 60, if memory serves. I also have a 353 and a 363. They all need love.
That has become one of those marketeering terms. You and RG are bantering back and forth about such. I know that you know the true difference between what the marketeers are saying and what is real. Does RG? Probably.
I saw an FWB/Daisy 300 for sale the other day for a very reasonable price. I had two FWB 300s at one time. That is a “match grade trigger”. I had a Beeman 800/Diana 6G. That is a “match grade trigger”. I have made an AirForce Edge trigger into almost a “match grade trigger”.
The Hatsan Quatro trigger is a real nice sporting trigger. The new Gamo triggers can be real nice sporting triggers. The Rekord and Air Arms triggers are superb sporting triggers. My Izzy has a true “match grade trigger”. I know you know the difference. Do others?
I am done rambling now.
“The Rekord and Air Arms triggers are superb sporting triggers.” I would call the OK, certainly not superb. I may have higher standards than you do? The Hatsan Quattro is barely adequate.
-Y
Yogi,
You must.
The best trigger that I have is on my HW 100. It’s a true two stage trigger. You take up slack in the first stage, come up against the wall and it breaks at 8 ounces every time. I can just wait at the wall until I see the perfect sight picture and then pull through the second stage. The second stage on my LG 80 breaks at 4 ounces but sometimes that’s too light for me. The second stage on my P17 Iis 2 1/2 pounds and that seems to be perfect for a pistol. The trigger on my Crossman MARK two is even better at low power, but sometimes I’m not sure whether it’s a single stage or a two stage.
Brent
LG 380. What is the lightest trigger on a CO2 semi-auto pistol that you’ve ever shot?
Thanks for the great report on triggers BB! This is very interesting and useful.
Many of the triggers around RRHFWA are single stage. It seems that most airgun manufacturers did not start using a two-stage trigger until after WWII. Really, that is OK fine by me. Some of these single stage triggers are the best I have ever pulled on. There is not felt creep and the release is very predictable and crisp. There is nothing wrong with a well-made single stage trigger.
I have pulled some horrible single and two-stage triggers in my time also. The reason I whine about the Tomahawk/Quatro trigger releasing at three pounds is I have become used to shooting targets. If that were not the case, the three-pound release would be just fine. I was able to lighten it a bit, but it is and has always been a nice, crisp release.
BB is correct in saying that a super light release is dangerous. This past weekend I had my grandson and his friend up to help me some and that afternoon we did a little shooting. Both of them had trouble with my Izzy. By trouble I am meaning they initially had accidental discharges, even after my warning them how light the trigger was.
Right now, the SAT trigger on the Gamo I have here is very nice. What is the pull? I have no idea. I have not measured it, even with my “dinosaur” trigger gauge. I just wish I liked the rest of it.
Someone ask BB what he thinks of the AirForce Edge trigger. 😉
You two boys be safe in your travels.
RidgeRunner:
I concur with your commentary on triggers. I have had two really, really bad pistols in my air gun locker over my 35 years of shooting my own pieces. One was the Benjamin springer that is now in the back of the cabinet waiting for a gun buy back. It’s junk, was junk and will always be junk. The other is a UMAREX springer that isn’t quite junk but the trigger pull is so weighty that the pull of it also pulls one off the target. It’s in the back of the locker not quite ready for the buy back….
On the other hand I’ve had my first air pistol, an RWS Diana 5-G, since 1990 and it is a shooter. It’s first sibling was and is a Beeman P-1/a California “hippie” version of the Weirauch M-45. It is definitely, like the G-5, a two stage trigger that is, after tens of thousands of shots, butter smooth.
The Beeman got so smooth that it actually became dangerous. All those shot cycles polished the trigger to the point that it became “no stage!” One couldn’t feel the transition from first to second stages and the let off was missing a build up of oh-so-slight pressure. It became a worry.
I got out the diminutive manual and increased the pressure of the let off to make it have that second stage ramp up to the let off. If it becomes dangerous again, it’s going to Huntington Beech or wherever the Beeman maintenance shops are for seals, mainspring and trigger work.
I loath an heavy trigger. I’ve been spoiled by RWS Diana and the Weirauch pistol “in Beeman drag.” All my Dianas are smooth and delicate two stagers. The coarsest one is the Octoberfest BB rifle, and I kind of expect that from a “gallery gun.”
I never hear much about monitoring the minimal weight that can develop over a long period of time with thousands of shots “polishing” the trigger parts. I’ve found it happens and is due consideration with one’s favorite and well used arms. It’s a slow almost imperceptible process that cand produce a dangerous situation. Something that one has to actually get out of habitual behavior and actually think about and evaluate.
This is a good article. Hope there is more to come….
RidgeRunner:
I concur with your commentary on triggers. I have had two really, really bad pistols in my air gun locker over my 35 years of shooting my own pieces. One was the Benjamin springer that is now in the back of the cabinet waiting for a gun buy back. It’s junk, was junk and will always be junk. The other is a UMAREX springer that isn’t quite junk but the trigger pull is so weighty that the pull of it also pulls one off the target. It’s in the back of the locker not quite ready for the buy back….
On the other hand I’ve had my first air pistol, an RWS Diana 5-G, since 1990 and it is a shooter. It’s first sibling was and is a Beeman P-1, a California “hippie” version of the Weirauch M-45. It is definitely, like the G-5, a two-stage trigger that is, after tens of thousands of shots, butter smooth.
The Beeman got so smooth that it actually became dangerous. All those shot cycles polished the trigger to the point that it became “no stage!” One couldn’t feel the transition from first to second stages and the let off was missing a buildup of oh-so-slight pressure. It became a worry.
I got out the diminutive aged manual and increased the pressure of the let off to make it have that second stage ramp up to the let off. If it becomes dangerous again, it’s going to Huntington Beach or wherever the Beeman maintenance shops are for seals, mainspring and trigger work. It’s trigger will be so use-polished that it will probably need a really demanding inspection with attention of detail — maybe some replacement work.
I loath a heavy trigger. I’ve been spoiled by RWS Dianas and the Weirauch pistol “in Beeman drag.” All my Dianas are smooth and delicate two stagers. The coarsest one is the Octoberfest BB rifle, and I kind of expect that from a “gallery gun.”
I never hear much about monitoring the minimal weight that can develop over a long period of time with thousands of shots “polishing” the trigger parts. I’ve found it happens and is due consideration with one’s favorite and well used arms. It’s a slow almost imperceptible process that can produce a dangerous situation. Something that one has to actually get out of habitual behavior and actually think about and evaluate before the floor joists above the shooting table gets an unusual decoration (don’t ask! LOL).
This is a good article. Hope there is more to come. Maybe a variant article about safety issues related to well-used air guns? I suspect that the 36 year progression with the P-1 is occurring in other personal arsenals and my fellow shooters might be prone to experience the unpleasantness of a surprise let off? Tom, what counsel would you have for those of us with “old gals, as RR calls them?
LFranke,
You do have to pay close attention to the wear some triggers do experience with some of these “old gals”. Many of the triggers on these old airguns are single stage and need the shooter to pay real close attention to them as they will smooth out with use.
Some of these “old gals” around here have screws in their trigger guards to be used to set how much engagement of the trigger is allowed. I for one wish such were on all single stage triggers, but I know these were removed because mental midgets adjusted them to the point that they became dangerous, just like the mental midgets adjusted the Theoben gas springs so high that they destroyed the seals. Ah well, the masters of mental midgetry have to be watched out for by manufacturers as this bunch do not consider they are the real problem.
You are so “on the money” about people who do NOT take interest in nor responsibility for their personal possessions or actions. That seems particularly true of people who come from firearms into “our arms” – i.e., the world of air guns. Many people don’t seem to understand the real differences in the two forms of shooting; ours is based on finesse, theirs (so very often) on power. Pesting, with air arms, is so much more a matter of shot placement, very precise placement, and not terminal round energy.
The other side of the coin, of course, is people who do not understand that even though air arms are less powered than firearms, that does not make them safe for foolishness. Our air arms are not “toys” at all.
Maybe I’m being a bit picky, but given the high level of shooting that seems the lot of us air gunners, I’d bet our trigger mechanisms are more worn that those of most firearm users. Indeed, the basic unit for purchase of our ammunition is 500 rounds not 50 or even 100. When I’m on my wintertime basement shooting (when bicycling is ludicrous save for the trainer also in the basement), it’s not unusual for a 3000 round month – on average. I’d bet I’m not all that unusual at all, and likely am exceeded by many participants on this blog. Hence, getting our community to learn to pay attention of that “use polishing of the trigger” seems to me to be something worth pondering and acting upon.
It’s old hat, for me, as probably many blog readers have figured out about me, to claim that my first high quality air rifle was and is my RWS/Diana Model 36 in .177 and my best air weapon purchased in the summer of 1989. Just by use, it has polished its original trigger into a sweet thing. It is on its third mainspring! I also am aware that it has a LOT of trigger wear and one has to keep one’s trigger finger OUT of the trigger guard until one has settled into the target (in this case my ballistic closet enclosing the Champion Steel Bullet/Pellet Trap. It won’t let off due to a reasonable jolt – yet. But….should there be a reasonable teaching of a tradition about checking the trigger function at some schedule, whether by 500 piece tins, or time, or mainspring replacement, seal replacement? I don’t know what, but maybe its time for such consideration and counsel by air gun experts like Tom Gaylord?
It would take time to ingrain such a concept into our shooting tradition, but should it be?
Safe travels to you and Ian, above all, enjoy the competition.
BB,
Triggers are an often discussed subject in the shooting world and often blamed for accuracy problems that are more likely owned by the shooter.
I have 4 Feinwerkbau match guns (100, 300, 603 & P8x) and feel that those triggers are amongst the best in the world. That being said, I’m not a “trigger snob”.
Agreed that a high quality trigger with a clean, consistent break is the easiest to shoot with, it doesn’t mean that less than perfect triggers are unusable.
I’ll look at a trigger (clean, deburr, polish, lubricate) if it’s overly mushy, gritty, or creepy but most of my airgun triggers are as received from the factory.
I guess that coming from a background of shooting such a variety of airguns and powder burners I “learn the trigger” as I get acclimatized to the feel and power of the weapon and don’t think about it much.
Like a new car, adjust the mirror, check the brakes and after a couple of minutes driving around all feels comfortable… A couple of shots and I’m good to go.
With many things, you don’t always have the option to set everything up to what you’d prefer and just have to adapt. It is what it is.
Competition, with money (or bragging rights) at stake, where every advantage needs to be leveraged is one thing. Myself, beyond doing a bit of tweaking and tuning for the fun of it I usually just enjoy casual plinking with the airgun as received from the factory.
Cheers!
I’ll never forget the time spent with Edith and B.B. Getting to pull the trigger on his Wilson Combat was one of many highlights.
At that point in time I had pulled the trigger on many guns, firearms and airguns. Some good triggers some so so. I’ve shot a lot of trap and skeet. You slap the trigger. I shot 3P and learned what it meant to squeeze a trigger. I have guns with DST’s. I was young when I learned first hand about 2 stage triggers. B.B.’s Wilson Combat trigger hits the wall and then breaks like glass with no overtravel. This, to me, is the heart of today’s blog post. If a trigger is relatively light BUT PREDICTABLE, it’s not only a joy, not only easier to be accurate with but it also feels lighter.
Great intro to a very interesting series.
I am by no means an expert at anything, but I went through the complete gamut of adjustments to a Diana 24 J with a 2 screw “D” trigger. I reported on it ad nauseum in my guest blog on that gun. That trigger went from OK to non functional to gritty and creepy, to crisp. Sooner or later a digital trigger scale will be in my Christmas Stocking and will become part of the toy chest here at RGIFAA.
Safe travels to B.B. and Ian.
Ian, we’re rooting for you to win your event. And we look forward with great anticipation on all the reports on the Pyramyd AIR Cup!
B.B.,
Great Blog to PRESS into service while you and Ian are in travel status; Safe travels.
Best on the competition Ian.
B.B. find those nuggets of knowledge for us in Ohio.
General information: Dennis Quackenbush reports having a few Outlaw .58 cal. (.575) pistol (September 9, 2024) today! The pistols work very well with 350gr. Hollow Points as well. The triggers are single stage as expected for a Hunting tool.
shootski
“This should be a fun report series.”
BB, I concur; I’m looking forward to the rest. 🙂
My HW50 full custom has a non-regulated Rekord trigger which is pretty hard on second stage. The good thing about it – it is 100% predictable. I think this is the key. Even a hard trigger may be accurate when it is predictable, and you can learn it easily. What is difficult – a trigger which you don’t know when it goes. Then you are not able to reach the top accuracy. I prefer a hard one but crisp.
I can tell you one thing – when you think the Rekord trigger is good, you are wrong. You have to try the FWB800 trigger – I can’t describe it. So far, I thought FWB300s trigger is the masterpiece of mechanics. Nope, they did it better afterwards.
Tomek, my friend, when you say “hard” trigger do you mean heavy, as in it takes more force or effort to pull it relative to other triggers? I think Yogi’s point yesterday was: why can every airgun have an FWB 800 trigger?
Yes… Hard is heavy.
When I look at the price level of the 800 series… hmmm…