Today reader RidgeRunner, tells us more about his Webley Tomahawk breakbarrel air rifle. If you’d like to write a guest post for this blog, please email me at blogger@pyramydair.com.
Take it away, RidgeRunner.
RidgeRunner’s Webley/Hatsan Tomahawk: Part Three
by RidgeRunner
Webley Tomahawk.
This report covers:
- At the range
- Predator GTO 11.75-grain pellets
- H&N Excite Hammer 14.66-grain pellets
- JSB Jumbo Heavy 18.13-grain pellets
- Crosman Essential Dome 13.7-grain pellets
- Two complete failures
- H&N Baracuda 21.14-grain pellets
- What’s next?
At the range
You had better refill your coffee cup as this is going to take a while. I am taking the Webley/Hatsan Tomahawk out to the range to see if this gal will dance for me. Just to let you guys know, I was able to lighten the trigger up some, but not really that much. She still has a nice and crisp two-stage trigger. I will be shooting at ten yards and resting the sproinger directly on my bags.
Something totally unrelated to shooting this sproinger is that earlier today I found a yellowjacket nest in the edge of the woods. And they did encourage me to find something else to do for a bit.
Predator GTO 11.75-grain pellets
I thought I would start off with the alloy Predator GTO pellets that weigh in at 11.75 grains. Ten of them made a group of 0.63 inches center to center (CTC).
Not too bad of a start.
H&N Excite Hammer 14.66-grain pellets
As someone had wanted to know how this sproinger did with H&N Hammer pellets and I happened to have some, I thought I would give them a try. Ten of them made a group of 1.32 inches, but eight of them made a group of 0.67 inches, CTC. Not too shabby for a cheap pellet.
Not too shabby, eh?
JSB Jumbo Heavy 18.13-grain pellets
The next pellet I gave a try in this sproinger was the JSB Jumbo Heavy 18.13-grain pellet. Ten of them made a group of 0.89 inches, CTC. If you look at this photo closely, you will note that six of them are in a pretty tight little group. I certainly do hope that this is a harbinger of what the twenty-five yard group looks like.
Now this is what it is all about.
Crosman Essential Dome 13.7-grain pellets
I thought I should give the cheap Crosman Essential pellets a go in this sproinger. These were quite a disappointment. I did not even shoot ten of them. Six of them made a group of 3.96 inches. CTC. Really?
This is horrible.
Two complete failures
The two next pellets I tried were the H&N Baracuda 18’s and the Crosman Premier Hollow Points. To say I was disappointed would be an understatement. I have no idea where these two pellets are shooting as they both missed the targets altogether.
H&N Baracuda 21.14-grain pellets
H&N Baracuda pellets were also a disappointment to me. After three shots I had a group that measured 1.19 inches CTC. I stopped right there and put everything away.
H&N Baracuda 18’s were another disappointment.
What’s next?
I guess I will give this gal a chance to dance at twenty-five yards. I am planning to take the better shooting ones from this batch and I might add another couple to the mix, although I do think I have found THE pellet for this “old gal”.
RidgeRunner,
Looks like the lighter pellets is preferred by your Tomahawk. You might want to try fiddling with the Limbsaver next to see if it affects the groups of the heavier pellets to improvement.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
I thought as much concerning the lighter pellets myself at first, but she seemed to like the JSB 18 grainers also.
As you will note, in the future I do rush ahead, hoping I had stumbled onto the magic formula for shooting this “old gal”. Ha! It is looking like I will be spending a little more time learning how she likes to dance.
Lighter pellets, less time in the barrel. Could it be that there is less time to be effected by the springer’s action or any shooter’s error, if they exist of course?
Bill,
As I do not walk on water, there will always be “shooter’s error”. As you will see in the future, there does indeed seem to be quite a prevalence of that in myself. I strongly suspect that I will be spending a good bit of time with this “old gal”, learning how she like to dance.
RR
I was just thinking out loud about the the light pellets’ performance hoping to hear from everyone here. I never meant to criticize your shooting.
I have read about that here in the past, with respect to springers. Would be really cool to see a super-slow-motion video of heavy vs. Light pellets shot from the same springer
Bill,
I am not upset about any possible criticism concerning my shooting ability. I myself am my worst critic where that is concerned. Once upon a time I used to be a pretty good shot. These sproingers I have been shooting of late have humbled me greatly. That is not really a bad thing.
As to the argument of light pellets versus heavy pellets, it has been my experience that the lighter pellets tend to be quite accurate at short ranges, but the heavier pellets do better as the range increases.
RR,
Hmmmm , I call group over one inch a “pattern”. 😉
When I see a sub-group and fliers like you are showing I check the scope parallax adjustment and watch that I’m not canting the rifle (I use a large, leveled, “cross” as a target so I can align the reticle to it).
Second thought would be to check the hardware. How’s the barrel pivot and lock-up, stock and scope screws snug?
Third would be to check that the scope erector tube is not out of its adjustment range and “floating”. Maybe shimming is needed or try another scope.
Try a different dance? Could be that she doesn’t like the bag, I’d suggest trying different holds before going to 25 yards.
If you can’t get decent groups at 10 yards, going further is just going to be worse.
RR, I know you think of these things, I’m just mentioning them for the benefit of the less experienced readers.
Have fun!
Hank
Hank,
In my haste and in my ignorance in thinking I knew what I was doing, I have already tried this “old gal” at 25 yards. Talk about a humbling experience. All I can do now is stop, back up a bit and think some about what I am doing and where I am going. I need to make haste more slowly.
I am having fun though. 😉
In addition to Hank’s good suggestions I’m going to add 2:
1-Give that barrel a good scrubbing with JB Bore paste.
2-Instead of drawing “X’s” on your target paper, draw “+” signs and overlay your scope reticles on the + sign
Kevin,
I use the X as they provide me with an exact spot to aim at. I do not have to concern myself with whether my lines are straight and/or true to level. Also, the point of intersection can be determined with most reticles, even if such is shot out. Try it.
As for the barrel scrubbing, I have not done such but will give it serious consideration. I would like to see this “old gal” do better, but I myself need to move a few of these out as I am in need of room to let a couple of others move in for a bit.
Yes! I found that the Hatsans NEED a good scrubbing with a bore brush and JB Paste followed by some dry felt pellets PUSHED through to get the worst of the JB Paste out and then a series of felt pellets with Barrier oil until they come out “clean.” Finally, a couple of dry felt pellets to mop up the Barrier oil.
One thing about Hatsans, which I suspect is on this piece, is the peculiar gold trigger. The pull is NOT back toward the stock butt up about a 45 degree upward and rearward pull. You will notice that the trigger pull is far less with the up and back motion.
My .25 Cal. Model 135 gave me fits until I learned two things: first, the trigger pull is UP and back and Hatsan can’t make a .25 bore on the mark. For our purposes, only the pull UP and back makes any difference; that kind of pull is markedly smoother, BTW.
Hank
Good reminder about checking parallax. Sometimes I forget to do this when first moving to the next airgun in my shooting rotation. Just for newbies I check parallax by moving my head while looking at the crosshairs on the target through the scope on a RESTED airgun. If the reticle wiggles there is parallax. Most of it can be eliminated by adjusting the AO (focus) lens. There are more ways to minimize human parallax error but this one is low hanging fruit.
Deck
Hey Ridge, you stated you rested the rifle directly on the bags. From years of reading this blog, BB hardly rests his “sproinger” rifles on the bag but puts his hand between the bag and the rifle. Did you want to try that with the more accurate pellets in this test and perhaps vary your hand position?
Fred formerly of the Demokratik Peeples Republik of NJ now happily in GA
RidgeRunner,
The usual good advice from the active Readership.
I would say you should pick the best grouping pellet and shoot a bunch of them at 10 instead of trying a bunch more. It might give you a better chance to get some feel on just how she likes to dance without the distraction of projectile variables.
This time of year yellowjackets go for protein bait more that fruit/sugar based bait.
shootski
Shootski,
Yellow-jackets make excellent targets – that they might take exception to being shot at is an excellent incentive to be accurate! 😉
This time of year it’s fun to grab an easy cocking springer (like the HW30), a can of pellets and shoot yellow-jackets feeding on wind-fall apples. Lots of active/reactive targets!
Late summer, early fall is the best time for sniping grasshopers and wasps. Used to look forward to that shooting as a kid… being in my second childhood I still do 🙂
Cheers!
Vana2,
Hank the springer is okay.
A 10 meter Olympic PCP rifle shooting .177 caliber is accurate enough and enough of Mass for most bugs and avoid missing shots on those Yellowjackets!
For the International Readership: Yellowjacket or yellow jacket is the common name in North America for predatory social wasps of the genera Vespula and Dolichovespula; known simply as “wasps” in other English-speaking countries.
They are NASTY and aggressive.
shootski
Funny story, for some,
I keep bees on occasion and once a neighbor complained that my “bees” were attacking his family. So I went over to check it out and found a yellow jacket (_Vespula_) paper nest in a bush by his driveway. I explained the difference to him, and offered to suit up and remove the nest. I did that at night when the wasps were all back in the nest, and bagged them in a feed sack. The next morning I showed it to the neighbor, and he asked for it. Turns out he had caught another neighbor who lived down the road trying to break into his car, and he wanted to throw it in the back of the perp’s car!
Mike
Berserkely Mike,
Honey Bees are among my favorite flyers.
Most folks don’t know that the workers have one of the most poisonous stings fortunately only one!
Also fortunate is that they are typically docile.
I removed (at night) a Paper Nest on our house, after getting stung once or twice, in Stuttgart Germany and placed it in a big plastic bag. I filled with CO2 to asphyxiate the occupants and my son used it (sectioned) for a science project.
I would NOT want to have a nest deposited in my automobile!
shootski
Shootski,
Yeah, *** They are NASTY and aggressive *** For sure!
While Yellow-jackets, hornets, wasps are technically different species, I refer to them all as “wasps”.
Locally, we have bears, coyotes and wolves that I’ve met while walking the bush. No problem, no fear. The only thing that truly scares me is accidentally blundering into a wasp nest. They WILL attack.
Destroyed two paper nests this year and am currently dealing with an underground nest.
My 10 meter airguns see quite a bit of plinking and sniping duty. It’s just that the HW30 reminds me so much of the Slavia 618 that was my first airgun. Still have/shoot the 618 but at 60 years old, it’s semi-retired.
Hank
Vana2,
Hank, I know you will be careful getting them eradicated.
shootski
“They are NASTY and aggressive.” Yes. But wait! There’s more! Murder hornets on the way.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/just-how-dangerous-is-the-murder-hornet/
FawltyManuel,
I almost fell for the hype about the African Killer bees. Then it was the Africanized Honey Bees and now it is the Murder Hornets.
shootski believes the media HYPE is out of control on EVERY TOPIC they (the Media) touch.
shootski is tranquilo
None seen so far in FM Country – but a couple days ago did spot the first reptilian invader in over a year; by the time FM and Max Hunter got to the scene, iguana gone. FM mad as hornet!
RR,
Thank you for your guest blogs, you give us good stuff to think about. Hoping you didn’t get stung by those yellow jackets!
In considering what causes the large pattern that the Tomahawk produces with the Crosman Essential Domes, barrel vibration always comes to mind first. It’s really a guess and I admit that barrel vibration is a bee in my bonnet, but here goes anyway. The pellet may be exiting barrel end while it is in the fastest portion of the vibration wave and is getting slung well away from the point of aim, in almost every direction.
I’m wondering if you would please do an experiment. Keep shooting the Crosmans, but move your damper from place to place along the barrel, as you see fit, and see if the pattern changes noticeably, hopefully toward being much smaller.
Enjoy,
Will
Great idea. I second that motion. If that dampener has any effect, one would think it would be shown by the wildest flying pellets.
Thank you RR, this is a good series. Sometimes it is more instructive when things don’t go as expected than when they do.
My only advice would be to stay at the 10m mark, and work through the variables until you get tight groups. The variables include dampener, pellet weight, hold, etc. I have the feeling that you will find the culprit, and that we all be learning (or re-learning) something.
Henry
I used to use the marker and draw an X, but then I found 10 meter targets at Gr8fun Targets at http://www.Gr8fun.net. They have various different targets that you can download and print at your leisure. Much easier to line up sights and centered.
Mike
Thank you RR,
I too would rather read how you try to get those 10 yard groups smaller, than how big the 25 yard groups grow. “Patterns”, as Vana2 puts it, at 25 yards I can cry over anytime, I don’t need to read about it. But a struggle for improvement is fascinating, especially if it works, or should work but doesn’t.
Mike
“The two next pellets I tried were the H&N Baracuda 18’s and the Crosman Premier Hollow Points. To say I was disappointed would be an understatement. I have no idea where these two pellets are shooting as they both missed the targets altogether.”
RidgeRunner, yikes!…no point in testing either of those at 25 yards! 😉