The Benjamin Disco Double made by Lloyd Sikes.
This report covers:
- Filled
- The test
- Where are we?
- Ten f.p.s.?
- It does NOT dry out
- Second velocity test
- Did it work?
- Summary
Today we look at the velocity of the Benjamin Disco Double. We also test an advertising claim of another product.
Filled
I filled the rifle five days before this test. I filled to just over 2000 psi, thinking the pressure would drop after the reservoir cooled off. I photographed the pressure gauge an hour after filling and discovered that I had filled too high
An hour after the fill this is what the pressure gauge read.
Five days later the gauge read exactly the same. So the rifle still holds after eleven years.
Five days after the fill this is what the gauge said.
The test
Today’s test will be different. I will only shoot a single pellet — the Benjamin Single Die that I call the Bullseye. I’m doing this for a reason that will become apparent in a bit.
The first 13 shots were needed to get the pressure gauge needle into the green zone. On that shot, which was the 13th, the velocity read 781 f.p.s. I felt the gun wasn’t performing its best yet, so I continued to shoot.
The needle passed below the line on the gauge at shot number 20 and the velocity registered 803 f.p.s. I still felt there was more to come so I continued to shoot.
On shot number 30 the velocity registered 827 f.p.s. and I felt the rifle was close to its power curve, so I could start registering the numbers.
SHOT…………Vel.
30……………….827
31……………….819
32……………….835
33……………….822
34……………….827
35……………….833
36……………….826
37……………….831
38……………….843
39……………….845
40……………….846
41……………….851
42……………….856
At this point the needle in the gauge registered in the green, halfway between the top and the bottom. This turned out to be where the highest velocities were recorded. That will be important in a bit.
SHOT…………Vel.
43……………….841
44……………….838
45……………….844
46……………….852
47……………….858
48……………….841
49……………….845
50……………….845
51……………….848
52……………….845
53……………….849
54……………….849
55……………….847
56……………….846
57……………….846
58……………….847
59……………….844
60……………….847
Following shot 60 the velocity started dropping steadily. Shot 65 went out at 830 f.p.s. Shot 70 was 820 f.p.s. I stopped at shot 75 that was 797 f.p.s..
Where are we?
I recorded every shot from 1 to 75. That tells me a lot about how this rifle performs. But I wanted to know where it shot the fastest for just one reason.
Remember SLIP 2000 AWL 30? Well the company also makes an airgun lubricant called SLIP 2000 Airgun Lubricant. Among its benefits is the claim of higher velocity when the bore is coated with the stuff. I have never seen anything increase velocity by coating the bore, so I wanted to try it for you today and I wanted to establish the place in the power curve where the rifle shot the fastest. That would be the string we just saw.
Does SLIP 2000 Airgun Lubricant increase the velocity when applied to the bore?
Ten f.p.s.?
Here is what it says on the SLIP2000 website abut Airgun Lubricant, “Use in bore to reduce friction, prevent BB fouling buildup and increase FPS.”
I’m writing this before conducting the next test, which is coating the bore of the Disco Double with SLIP 2000 Airgun Lubricant and recording 20 shots at the fastest point in the power band.
If I see an increase of about 10 f.p.s. or more I’ll declare the product does what it is advertised to do. If the velocity remains the same or decreases I’ll declare that it doesn’t work for that purpose. I saturated a .22-caliber bore mop and ran it through the bore both ways to ensure a complete coating.
It may be a good lubricant, but I have never seen oil or anything like it do anything except decrease velocity when put into the bore of a rifle. Such claims are dangerous because people believe them and that leads them to believe other things that are said about a product.
It does NOT dry out
A reader reminded me to allow the product to dry thoroughly before testing velocity, but this product will not do that. It’s a lubricant and better not dry out over the course of five years, let alone a few hours.
Second velocity test
With the rifle filled to halfway between empty and full again, I fired 20 shots with the same Benjamin Bullseye pellet. Here are the results.
SHOT…….Vel
1…………….810
2…………….807
3…………….812
4…………….804
5…………….816
6…………….821
7…………….818
8…………….826
9…………….825
10…………..822
11…………..824
12…………..821
13…………..818
14…………..812
15…………..815
16…………..814
17…………..808
18…………..799
19…………..800
20…………..797
Did it work?
There! That proves SLIP 2000 Airgun Lubricant does not increase velocity when applied to the bore. It may be a wonderful lubricant, but like all other lubricants including straight moly — NOTHING increases velocity when applied to the bore of a rifle.
Summary
Today we looked at the velocity of the Disco Double precharged pneumatic air rifle. It obviously holds perfectly. And we learned that SLIP 2000 Airgun Lubricant does not increase the velocity when applied to the bore — despite what their advertising says.
The next test will be accuracy and with many of the pellets that weren’t available in 2013 — the last time I tested this rifle.
Tom,
Let’s give the SLIP 2000 Airgun Lubricant a fair shake. Maybe a test using the Daisy 25? Although I doubt it would make a consistent increase in velocity.
Definitely not something I’d use in a break barrel though.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
You know — it’s odd that the Daisy 25 was the first airgun I thought of for a test like this. And it is a smoothbore, so that would be different than a rifle.
I’ll think about it.
BB
“There! That proves SLIP 2000 Airgun Lubricant does not increase velocity when applied to the bore.”
BB,
Yes, you proved that for sure! It’s late, and my brain is slow; hence, I may have punched a number wrong, but I think not. What I get is 835.4 fps for the first string of 13 shots, 846.2 fps for the second string of 18 shots, and 813.5 fps for the final set of 20 shots (through the lubed bore).
If you average all 31 of the pre-lubed shots, the velocity is 841.7 fps.
So, we’re talking a 28 fps decrease…pretty sad!…yet, as you pointed out, not unexpected. 😉
Thank you for this most interesting report.
Blessings to you,
dave
I’ve believed and preached that if you’ll lie about a little, you’ll lie about the big things too. Trust is important to me and difficult to regain. Thank you, Tom. Orv.
Orv,
Boy, howdy! Trust is important to me, as well.
BB
Thanks for the interesting report on a very cool rifle and the results of the lube test. I think that if that lube (or any other lube) actually did increase velocity that we would see it already being used extensively. However, I tend to agree with Siraniko that perhaps a test with a lower velocity BB gun using steel BBs might be interesting.
When I hear Disco-Double, I wonder where the Double Mint girls are?
Tom,
Thanks for being a myth buster!
-Y
They are living at Wriggley’s Home For Retired Advertisements (WHFRA).
BB,
As you had suspected, they are liars. Now you have to get their junk out of that bore.
I do regret that you spent your money on that stuff, or did they send it to you at no charge in the hopes you would have nothing but glowing remarks concerning their product and we would buy gallons of their stuff?
RR,
It will shoot out.
As for the oils they sell, I already had success with one so let’s not call the game just yet.
BB
You’d probably do better with a mirror-finish chrome-plated bore, but that would definitely be overkill.
FawltyManuel,
Maybe Pellet polishing too!
;^)
shootski
BB,
I noticed in today’s test you were relying on the accuracy of the onboard gauge. Is not the gauge of the tank/compressor/pump/whatever you used to fill this air rifle more accurate than the onboard gauge? Is not the actual fill pressure of 2000 PSI more likely to be as you have shown in your pictures? Unless I am mistaken, most of these small gauges are notoriously inaccurate.
It is true that should you not have a proven to be more accurate gauge on your air source, you should indeed be more reliant on the onboard gauge.
RR,
I used the same gauge for all tests. It may be off but always by the same amount. Hence — a standard, of sorts.
BB
BB,
OK, that works. As you have said, all your previous testing was done with this gauge, so you might as well use it as your “standard” now.
You know for as long as it’s been holding air, I’m beginning to think they don’t make O-rings like they used to.
Ian.
Ian,
I wish I knew more.
BB
Ian,
Another thing to consider is Lloyd most likely used a better quality O-ring than most manufacturers and he likely was not negligent in lubricating the O-rings properly.
RidgeRunner,
I’ll bet Lloyd knows the same “secrets” Dennis Quackenbush knows about the O-Ring groove fabrication steps and direct relationship to tube thread location as well as why they extrude through the tiniest gaps above 1,500 PSI (100.4 BAR) with ease.
Breaking news:
Camp & Garden .410 shot as well as .58 caliber (.575) Outlaw pistols are SOLD OUT! https://quackenbushairguns.com/currently_available.htm
shootski
I used to own a DiscoDoubke in a Boyd’s Blaster stock. TKO moderator.
Loved it.
And like a fool I let it go.
Hindsight….
Ian.
45Bravo,
Ian at first i thought you had a Lloyd Discovery Double Knockoff built in some Slavic language country!
Then i found this: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=doubke deal
Everything is clear again.
Good looking rifle and i sure feel for you on your loss!
shootski
No, no foreign country knock off.
Big fingers small screen on my phone.
The K key is right next to the L key.
Ian
Ian,
You need to get the Doubke Deal mug!
shootski
B.B.
Slip 2000, hmm. “Use in bore to reduce friction, prevent BB fouling buildup and increase FPS.” I’ve never seen a bb foul a barrel. Steel going down a smooth bore are low velocity. Maybe it was meaning lead bbs?
Doc
Maybe the copper-plated BBs? I can’t imagine it.
Anyway, even if the Airgun Lube is not good at increasing velocity, I’m wondering if it might be really good at other airgun applications.
RG,
I have a lifetime supply of everything else. Why would I want to throw more money out the window for something as good as I already have?
Well, YOU might not be interested, but perhaps the rest of are not as stocked up as you. We might be slightly younger too, so your “lifetime” supply may not be enough for us. ;o) Just sayin’.
RG,
I will have to live another thirty to forty years to run out of TIAT, etc.
B.B.,
Thank you for your Muzzle Velocity (MV) comparison testing.
Unfortunately knowing the forum crowds the bore and projectile lubing myth will continue.
I look forward to your testing of the Daisy 25 bb gun with lubricated bore.
I suspect the laws of Newtonian Physics will be shown to be adequate for our day-to-day uses and mostly without faulty here on Earth one more time.
BRAVO ZULU hoist on this one.
shootski
B.B. and Readership,
This linked piece is a good start going into the deep look at both today’s topic as well as trigger group polishing; be it intentionally or unintentionally done: https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/31137/polishing-wear#:~:text=The Cons of Polishing Wear,and number of hard particles.
shootski
B.B. please remind me the difference and the potential advantages/dusadvantages of lubing pellets vs. lubing the bore (we already know there are no velocity benefits to lubing the bore).
RG,
Pellets are made of lead, which is self-lubricating. If you shoot an airgun regularly, the bore will be cleaned and relubed by the lead. What more do you want?
Whiscombe honey must have a purpose, though….
Roamin,
It was a Brit who told me about that. Many Brits believe lubing pellets is good. But the main purpose was to keep the lead off the barrel walls.
BB
Roamin Greco,
Whiscombe Air rifles are powerful, can be shot with pellets that go fast, perhaps fast enough to make folks believe that leading of the bore might be a problem. So they needed some secret sauce. John Whiscombe was also an astute business man who filled a consumers need to keep them happy.
He was happy earning Pounds Sterling for the secret sauce as well.
shootski
Roamin,
If you lube pellets they lube the bore. Slow down.
BB
B.B.
Sorry forgot to ask, will SLIP 2000 AWL 30 reduce corrosion in the barrel? Now when I leave my airguns alone for a while, I coat the inside of the barrel with Ballistol. Would this be better?
-Y
Yogi,
They claim it will inhibit corrosion.
BB