This report covers:
- Beginning with BB
- What are darts made of?
- What about bolts?
- Pondered
- Comments started
- Are darts more accurate in rifled barrels?
- Crosman 760
- Not for darts
- Keep velocity low
- The Marksman air pistol
- What’s next?
Today we explore deeper into the subject of airgun darts. Many readers either asked questions or had something to say about darts as comments to Tuesday’s report that I thought this would be a worthwhile topic.
Beginning with BB
At the SHOT Show I was surprised to learn that the Markpoint air pistol has a rifled barrel. Why was Umarex recommending it for airgun darts? Wouldn’t they ruin the rifling?
Umarex Markpoint pistol shoots both pellets and darts.
Umarex vice president of marketing, Justin Biddle, talked to me about this. At first he said the barrel was rifled to shoot pellets as well as darts. Then I asked if he was concerned that the metal darts might wear the rifling, he didn’t comment. He just cocked his head as if to say, “Really? That’s your concern?”
Did I really think the Markpoint pistol is an heirloom airgun? The answer to that is a definite no. The Markpoint is not something you will pass down in the family for generations, any more than you saved the paper napkin from your breakfast this morning. Some things are not made to last. We expect to get several years of use out of the pistol, but an heirloom it’s not.
What are darts made of?
Then came the question of what darts are made of. Are they brass? Aluminum? Steel?
Airgun darts are made of steel which really could wear the rifling, at least the darts I am discussing are. But do they wear the rifling when shot? Well, the bodies of darts with feathers or tufts are smaller than the inside of the bore they travel in. The tufts keep the dart bodies reasonably centered without needing the metal to touch the bore.
What about bolts?
Airgun bolts are made of steel with a plastic tail, but they may not harm a rifled barrel, either. Remember the Crosman Mark II Target pistol that shoots both steel BBs and lead pellets? I’ve never heard of a Mark II barrel wearing out, so maybe steel bolts in a rifled barrel aren’t that bad.
Pondered
I thought about this on the way home from SHOT and that thinking resulted in Tuesday’s report about the Snowpeak Pioneer. It has a rifled barrel and is also lower powered like the Markpoint. Best of all I have one right now! Why not try it? I did and it works.
Comments started
Reader RidgeRunner commented that he has too many airguns to repair at present. Boy—can I relate to that! But he mentioned he has a Webley Junior among those awaiting repair because it shoots weakly. I have one too and it also fires weakly. Mine is a smoothbore that made for darts! But even if it had a rifled barrel darts would be good in it. In the case of my Junior, bolts are preferable to tufted darts.
Are darts more accurate in rifled barrels?
Reader Roamin Greco wondered if darts are more accurate in rifled barrels or smoothbores. I can think of no way to test that so I’m going to leave it at—I don’t know.
Crosman 760
Reader Elmer Fudd mentioned using a Crosman 760, wondering if that would be good for darts. Reader JDA001 chimed in saying, “The 760 works great. 5 Meters with 2 pumps is all that is required. Almost zero drop. I can keep 10 Malibu Darts within a 2 inch Shoot NC target. I would not recommend all at the same time but limit to 5 groups of 2.”
That begs the question of the special shortened Crosman 760 I showed you weeks ago. Would that be a good dart gun?
This specially-built custom 760 airgun was made for a specific purpose. But could it be a dart gun, too? That’s something I can find out myself!
Not for darts
Reader Decksniper says his only multi-pump is his Dragonfly. He doesn’t mention whether it’s a Mark I or Mark 2, but either way I think the answer is no for darts. I say that mainly because the Dragonfly is too powerful for darts. The last thing we want is to bury them so deep in the board that they are damaged when removed. If you haven’t extracted airgun darts from a sisal board you may not appreciate how easily they can be damaged.
Both the tufted dart and the bolt were bent removing them from the sisal dartboard. They were bent this way while being pried from the board.
Also I wouldn’t use darts in a rifled barrel made from anything except steel. The rifled brass barrels in Blue Streaks and 392s might sustain damage.
Keep velocity low
Darts don’t need the velocities that pellets or even BBs need. Because they have sharp points they stick well—especially in a sisal dart bored, but also to an improvised backstop like a cardboard box.
The Marksman air pistol
Reader billj mentioned that he had tried a Marksman air pistol and it didn’t work very well. I would like him to comment to this report and tell us what he tried—tufted darts or bolts. I found the tufted darks go out too slowly, if at all, from my Marksman pistols. The bolts should work if they go out of the muzzle at all, but you need a special backer board for them to stick in. I’ll show you why.
This is the bent bolt from above. See the large ring just behind the point? That stops this type of dart from penetrating any further at dart-gun velocities.
I couldn’t lay hands on my Marksman pistol so I shot a bolt from my Webley Junior that is also very low velocity. It bounced off the sisal dartboard but stuck tight to a target taped to a cardboard box. Try a bolt into cardboard with your Marksman pistol.
What’s next?
I want to shoot some darts for accuracy, but I also want to find out how fast these darts need to go. I think a test to first see whether they stick (and in what) followed by a velocity test will do.
Tom,
Maybe duct seal might work as a target medium? You still have some of that don’t you?
Siraniko
Siraniko,
That’s a great idea! I might test it.
BB
B.B.,
Bad night at Washington’s DCA airport.
An Army Black Hawk helicopter 3 souls on board and and an American Eagle Regional Jet 60+ souls on board crashed into the Potomac River just short of runway 33.
It appears there are no survivors of about 63 or so people.
The water temperature is 35.8°F/2.1°C.
This is very likely a RECOVERY Operation.
You may want to try the darts on Gator Board: https://www.printmoz.com/blog/what-is-gator-board#:~:text=Unlike foam board%2C which can,boards are durable and unyielding.
Prayers for the safety of the First Responders and the friends and families of the victims.
shootski
shootski, yes, prayers are in order; thank you.
“I think a test to first see whether they stick (and in what) followed by a velocity test will do.”
BB,
I think that would be great. I have always been curious about darts, due to an episode from the past.
When I was about 10-years-old, a bunch of us were down by the swamp behind our houses.
“Braggy Boy” was there with his Crosman 760 (wooden stock and forearm and metal receiver).
Braggy Boy did have some bragging rights since, while some had Daisy BB guns, his gun had power!
(And I, sadly, had not even a BB gun.)
Anyway, Braggy Boy said he saw a muskrat; he pumped his gun 10 times and loaded a steel dart.
Then, he fired at the muskrat, and claimed he hit it right in the head, causing its instant demise.
When we asked to see it, he claimed it sank out of sight in the murky water.
Some thought there never was a muskrat.
Others thought he saw one (there were muskrats in the swamp), but totally missed it.
He showed me one of his darts, and said that, surely, the dart must have penetrated the skull.
I knew less about airguns than I know now, but I knew that muskrats are pretty tough critters.
I seriously doubted that one of those darts could penetrate the skull of said critter.
My opinion at the time (and still today) is that he totally missed that muskrat.
And at the splash, as we were all looking at where it had been, the muskrat was already on the other side of the pool of water, laughing at Braggy Boy because he knew the lad’s story was full of doodoo, and furthermore, the little spud knew that he would live to swim another day. LOL! 🙂
Blessings to you,
dave
P.S. The shot was at a range of about 10 feet, at the head of a muskrat that was supposedly 6″ underwater.
I know that light refraction causes underwater targets to look closer to the surface than they are.
Still, even if it was only an actual 6″ underwater, what would the velocity of a dart fired from a
Crosman 760 be after passing though 6″ of water? I’m thinking, not much.
I remember shooting darts when I was like 12 years old. There were a massive steel body darts with a long tail made of some real hair (from horse???). It was difficult to put them into the barrel deep enough to close it (break barrel airgun was accelerating them). I remember those darts were very accurate, we shot them in 30 meters range! Unfortunately, I lost all of them. What you can buy now is short tail, mostly made of some plastic. Never shot so accurate with those “new ones”.
Airgun darts can be fired from low powered co2 revolvers that use shells vs magazines like the Colt SAA.
They are easily loaded into the shells.YMMV depending on the gap and alignment between cylinder/shell and barrel/forcing cone!
Yesterday started out great.
Early on I got a call from a local California Veterans Service Organization and was informed my old Navy shipmate with Major Cognitive Disorder, Dementia, currently in a memory care home, was awarded a 100% disability rating from the VA and will be receiving enough compensation to help cover the cost of being there. 🙂
Only took me two years of doctor visits and forms. He was actually eligible when he left Vietnam.
Then I was informed the, now get this name, Cybergun Tanfoglio Licensed Limited Edition Gen 2 Custom 4.5mm Gas Blowback Pistol by KWC (Model: Gold Custom/Titanium) was in the mail. A month early. 🙂
Then it ended not so great. My sister informed me, she has breast cancer. 🙁
I doubt BB will ever get his hands on this CO2 pistol so I will try my best to give it a good check out and comment on it.
Bob M,
You are a good friend for looking after your shipmate from the war. Best wishes for your sister’s prognosis, may it be treatable without chemo. Prayers for your friend and sister.
Regards,
Will
Thanks Will.
I keep reading about break throughs in treating cancer. All is not lost yet.
I’m pretty convinced they will have a cure, for whatever I die of, two days after I’m dead.
Bob M
God only provides us challenges we can meet. Stay Strong
Just curious if this is the CO2 BB Pistol. Looks like it’s a race gun. I would be very interested when you test.
Kind Regards
jda001
jda001,
What CO2 BB pistol do you refer to?
BB
Bob MI mentioned this BB pistol name in his original post – Cybergun Tanfoglio Licensed Limited Edition Gen 2 Custom 4.5mm Gas Blowback Pistol by KWC (Model: Gold Custom/Titanium)
at 6:36 am 1/30/2025
Kind Regards
jda001
jda001,
Yes, it is. There is an Airsoft company that has ventured into the steel BB Gun market and is offering custom pistols along the lines of their Airsoft pistols.
I have the Gen 1 Model of this and a few other outstanding replicas of professional Race Guns.
Funny but Gen1 airguns only get designated so when a second upgraded model of it comes out.
At first glance they seem to have just changed the barrel an associated magazine parts to convert them. Kind of obvious and simple. However, I do not know if they increased the strength or durability of the internal workings, or if it is even required?
I got them to add to my collection and have not spent any time checking out their accuracy or shooting characteristics yet. They look outstanding and seem to come and go in the market quickly. I will make an exception for this one. I will assume they perform like any other CO2 pistol. I have Monday as a delivery date.
jda001,
It’s frustrating to know that i have two air pistols sitting behind the counter in my local Post Office.
They were scheduled to arrive Monday but showed up one hour before closing today at around noon. Perhaps they were right. I won’t be able to get them till Monday.
Bob,
I agree with Will—you are a good shipmate! And may your sister comer through this ordeal without a problem.
BB
Bob M,
Wonders never cease. The VA has finally admitted that you friend needs help. Your order arrived early. In contrast with developing countries your population detects AND reports earlier. I have great hope that your sister and her family will weather this storm. Medical and Surgical advances have made great strides. Breast cancers that were previously considered inoperable are now not only can be rendered operable but curable. I will include you sister in my prayers.
Siraniko
Amen to that, Siraniko. FM will pray for the lady as well. Mrs. FM had breast cancer surgery in 2015; thankfully the cancer was detected early so the surgery and the subsequent radiation treatment was very localized. She was also put on a drug regimen to reduce the possibility for a recurrence. She is off the medication now; no recurrence after 10 years, so far. God be praised!
Bob,
prayers for your sister and all of you. Those are all tough battles.
CB
Bob M,
BRAVO ZULU Shipmate!
You are an Exemplar of the Best of the Best.
My prayers for your sister’s full recovery.
shootski
BB,
I’m in, I can’t resist. A Markpoint and tufted darts will be on their way soon. Regarding the longevity of the tufted darts, do they last very long before the tufts become kind of ruined? The green one pictured above has some serious “bed head.” The strands of the tail are all kinked and such. Is this the typical kind of wear from shooting, or was this one damaged from being pulled out of the board?
Regards,
Will
Will,
Short answer is — I don’t know.
I guess we find out together.
BB
Will
I have Malibu darts (fluffy) that are working at
over 250 shots. I have also seen some not last past 10.
Same manufacturer, same pack. When they work, they work great and when they fail, they fail fast.
Sometimes they do need to be trimmed.
Kind Regards
jda-001
jda-001,
Thanks for that info. Some are heading my way and I’m looking forward to trying them in the plastic Markpoint springer pistol.
Regards,
Will
BB,
The trouble I am having with my Junior is not the power, but the sear. It likes to go off whenever. The sear does not like to hold back the piston.
I have a “new” sear, but it still does not work with it. I am going to have to do a deep dive on this air pistol.
P.S. My Junior is a .177 smoothbore also. Most of the Juniors are. A rifled one is rare.
RidgeRunner,
A cousin owned one that had the “hair trigger” sear problem and iff memory serves me it is pretty much a direct trigger to sear arrangement. His was an issue that a new pin and a replacement sear spring resolved. Parts were much easier to get back then; TWC in the UK may have the pin(s) and spring. Hopefully it isn’t the hole(s) the pin rides in! If it is oval that could cause the un-commanded variable Let Off as well.
hth
shootski
shootski,
It is a direct sear. A new spring may be the answer. I have a “new” sear, but I do believe it to be for the newer model than mine is. Unless I am mistaken, mine is of the older version.
I do not think it is a problem with the pins or the holes for such. As I have stated, a new spring may be the answer.
Don’t meant to usurp FM’s territory, but it sounds like your spring has sprung. Round these parts, things are melting but expecting a cold snap tomorrow.
RG,
I had to read your post several times to get the gist of what you were saying. Yes, the snow and ice has finally all but melted here, thanks to the warm temps and rain. Is it Spring yet? I hope not. The temps are more normal for around here though.
I’ll will thank all well-wishers and prayers for my sister here. Thank you all.
Bob M
Praying for your sister to get the best care and that her cancer is returned to remission. Blessings to you for being the caregiver you are! Good news about your buddy.
Deck
B.B.
If a gun shoots too hard for dart retrieval, why don’t you either find a harder target than a sisal dart board, or just shoot at longer distances???
-Yogi
Yogi,
I tried both. The darts still got bent and the accuracy was not that good.
Remember — you are seeing things as they unfold. It’s not like I edit what I’m doing.
BB
B.B.
At my bar they throw darts at 10 feet. If I can not do as well-or poorly-shooting from 20 feet, I would rather just throw them. You have taught me if you don’t have accuracy, you don’t have nothing!
-Y
PS. I know the double negative, but sometimes you need to take liberties.
Yogi,
Nothing is a something so it doesn’t count as a negative ;^)
Now if you had said, …you don’t not have nothing! I would need to howl about that.
Do they lean way over that 10′ line throwing those darts? That would be like i seem to remember them doing on standing lanes in FT matches.
shootski
shootski,
The FT shooters who do that, I bet miss!
The dart throwers lean a little. Most stand on the line, unless there is money involved…
-Y
BB and all,
My chiropractor has just gotten his feet wet in air guns. He has an older Crosman break barrel (I don’t remember the model, but it has the worst trigger I have ever seen on any gun) that he asked me to look at a few years ago. I did, and found a lot of loose screws, the scope travel maxed out, etc (all stuff I learned from here), tried several different pellets, and ended up going from a gun that couldn’t keep them all on about a 10″ x 16″ box at 25 yards, to about a 2″ group at 25 yards. Well that really impressed him, and when someone recently gave him another airgun, he asked me to go through it for him. I said I would, but I am not sure what it is. It is branded Umarex with a symbol in the shape of a pentagon shape with an “F” inside it. It is 177, and underlever. Frankly, it reminds me of something that I would have seen at one of those traveling tool sales that were popular 25 years or so ago before Harbor Freight became popular. I fired six shots through it. I probably wouldn’t have once I saw the condition of the breach seal, but he told me that he had been shooting it some already, so I didn’t think a few shots would hurt it more than it already was. The ones that I could get the chronograph to read were 235fps and 243fps with some Daisy pointed pellets that didn’t have the weight anywhere on the package, and 141fps with a Baracuda Match 10.65 grain (those are the two pellets he sent with the gun). If you look at the pictures, it obviously needs a new breach seal at a minimum. Anyone have any idea what this gun is? Where can I get parts? And how far should I tear it down to try to get it functioning as well as I can for him?
CB
Well, apparently I can only upload 1 picture. So I’ll just post the rifle, but take it for granted that the breach seal is toast.
CB,
That looks like a Chinese B3-1 to me. He needs a real airgun. That one may eventually shoot but there is no guarantee.
BB
The pentagon with an “F” is a German freimark. That denotes a maximum of 7.5 joules muzzle energy, or 5.53 foot pounds, which partly explains the low velocities. Even at full rated power 10.65 grain pellets are at only 483 fps.
Good thing it was a gift. Sell it on Ebay and give him suggestions on a Weihrauch 30S or Beeman R7. If he likes the underlever: TX200 if he wants to treat himself.
I agree with Tom. That looks very much like my B-3. Just be careful of that sliding compression chamber when you go to load a pellet. If the sear slips, it would make the old M-1 thumb look like a paper cut. Hold the lever with your arm when you go to load it. Mine happens to be surprisingly accurate.
Fred formerly of the Demokratik Peeples Republik of NJ now happily in warming up GA
All,
Thanks for all the advice.
I have skimmed through BBs blogs on the B3. It sure looks like it, though I am a little surprised by the Umarex branding. I might give a TIAT and a “faucet washer” breach seal but I don’t think I would go much further than that.
Probably talk to him first though to see if he even wants to pursue it. Gotta admit though that I am a tinkerer at heart, and part of me just wants to see what if I can make it better.
CB
“Based on use with both the Crosman 760 and Daisy 35, my guess the sweet spot is between 225 and 275 FPS”
Above from jda001 in your report back in 2023. My Dragonfly is the Mk2. I didn’t try it. I did in my M-8 with good accuracy and on POA at 10 meters but was much too powerful for my regulation dart board.
This report seems to have interest from others as well as me.
Deck
BB,
My remarks about the Marksman were in reference to my trying darts (the tufted style) many years ago. As I recall, they would zip through the side of a corrugated cardboard box at ten feet, with crumpled newspapers inside, that I would use for a target backstop. I don’t recall them being very accurate at all. (I don’t recall the Marksman being very accurate, in general.)
So, I decided to start again. I got out my ‘current’ Marksman (20+ years old) and some tufted darts (old? I don’t remember) to try again. This gun just barely puts a pellet through one side of a Kleenex box at 5 meters. The darts did not even insert through the plastic breech seal, as it was too tight. So, no testing today.
The Marksman, while fun to put an occasional 20 bb’s through it, is not my favorite bb launcher, so I won’t spend more time with it.
The 760 looks better and better.
Bill