Daisy No. 25 – Part 1

by B.B. Pelletier


Daisy’s new No. 25 pump-action BB gun is a high-quality rendition of the original. It’s what you would have asked for, if anyone had asked.

You know how I like to give you something to talk about on the weekends, so today’s report is about the new Daisy No. 25 pump-action BB gun. The fun comes from the fact that I have a small collection of No. 25 guns and know a few things about their long history. First point is that Daisy refers to this gun as the No. 25, not the model 25, however, the words Model 25 are on the package. But the name No. 25 is stamped into the metal body of the gun. It’s one of those trivial collector points that most people ignore, but it does mean that this current gun is significant for the nomenclature change.

The original No. 25 was brought to the Daisy Manufacturing Company by Fred LeFever, a young designer from the famous family of shotgun designers. He figured he could give Daisy six months of his time to get their production up to speed…but stayed on for the next 44 years.

The No. 25 is a pump-action gun. A firearms buff understands immediately what that means, but airgunners sometimes get confused. This gun is a spring-piston repeating BB gun that is cocked and loaded by the knee action of an articulated pump lever. The shooter pulls straight back on the pump handle but the lever is broken in the middle into two pieces that fold apart to lower the effort required to cock the piston. The word pump therefore has nothing to do with a pneumatic pump.

Over the long production life of the No. 25 (1913-1978), there were several important design changes. All collectors agree that the variation that first appeared in 1936 was the most beautiful because of the stamped engraving on both sides of the receiver. Daisy wisely chose to replicate that design in the new No. 25.

This current gun is made in China, and I must comment that they’re doing a great job with the appearance. The metal is folded correctly, the paint is applied evenly, and the real wood butt and pump handle are finished attractively. I must say, there’s more quality here than I expected.

Daisy claims a velocity of 350 f.p.s. There are no lightweight BBs, so that number was achieved with Daisy’s own zinc-plated BBs. We shall see in Part 2. If it does shoot that fast, Daisy has recreated a No. 25 equal to those of the early days — another very surprising thing. I remember as a young man wanting a wood and steel No. 25, because we all knew that the painted ones had lighter mainsprings.

I tried cocking the test gun just once and was surprised by the force it took. My gosh — suddenly I’m 12 again! This puppy is stiff when new. Fortunately, these guns have the reputation that they need to be broken in, and then they’ll slick up and start to shoot and cock smoother.

The sights are a repeat of the 1952-version sights that have a flip peep sight and open notch. The notch is a bit close to the sighting eye to work right, but the peep is ideal. We shall see what this gets us when I test for accuracy.


The rear sight is both a notch and a peep. It adjusts for windage and elevation.

Two things I must criticize, though I understand the reason for one of them, are the lawyer trigger and the take-down screw. If any company has the right to let their lawyers in on the design, it’s Daisy, who gets sued a lot! The trigger is plastic and incorporates a safety I’d just as soon not see, but it’s there. A safety on a BB gun is like the spoon handle on a hand grenade. Don’t let go of it until you’re ready to use it! Putting a cocked BB gun on safe sounds like an accident just waiting to happen. However, if the range officer says the line is cold, I guess it’s always best to apply the safety.

The take-down screw has a nut on the far side of the gun. That makes it more than just a tool-free operation. I guess you have to start carrying a multi-tool all the time if you shoot this gun.


The tack-down bolt has a nut on the opposite side, so this is no longer a tool-free operation. Note the beautiful stamped engraving on the receiver!

The 50-shot forced-feed magazine looks different than the mags of models from the past, but it works the same way. And, you’ll remember to oil your gun before shooting, won’t you? Failure to oil was the reason my first No. 25 failed on me in my youth, and I’m now a zealot for this necessary maintenance procedure. Common household oil should not be used. Daisy recommends 20-weight motor oil, but airgunners know that Crosman Pellgunoil is made from that.


Daisy does with magnets when they used to do with wire springs. Other than that, the 50-shot forced-feed magazine works the same way they always did.

Good job so far!
I have to say, Daisy appears to have done it up right this time. This new No. 25 is a gun you will be proud to own. Yes, it’s made in China, and yes, it’s painted and not blued, but, for gosh sakes, this is the resurrection of a BB gun design that’s 98 years old!

118 thoughts on “Daisy No. 25 – Part 1

  1. Great gun,not my taste thou :) I have a question about TO6 triggers ,are they all made from metal or not ….?I suppose that you guys have already heard about catastrophe in Hungary ,i have found one quote that may refer to this situation “I had rather be an oyster than a man,the most stupid and senseless of animals” -George Berkley .


    • Can you fill us in about this catastrophy?
      Also, when you talk about plastic triggers, are you just talking about the trigger itself or are you talking about other trigger assembly components?

      twotalon



      • Dave,twotalon -i am talking about “red mud” spill for what does this “red mud “is used for- i dont really know(maybe aluminum foil thingy)but Dave yes it is expected to pass throught tomorrow(red mud in Danube) ,twotalon yes i am talking about trigger ,not trigger components ,just trigger couse i have heard somewhere that TO6 triggers are made from metal …..!?


        • That is a terrible mess over there. We are destined to bring about our own extinction.

          I do not fear plastic triggers on the better quality guns. I have seen some on cheap guns that do not look to healthy.

          twotalon




          • Mr B it is not (that)bad out here, it is Hungary that take a hit but it will be after oil spill in gulf of Mexico this year maybe biggest catastrophy (heck they even say after Chernobiyl) Danube is big river (second by the size in Europe)so they say that all this will be daluted (they say ) but where does it end ,twotalon i am satisfied too with TO5 trigger on my 34 it is OK



    • O.K. I understand now. I had not looked at the news and thought you might have been talking about an airgun accident.

      As far as plastic triggers go (trigger only) I have no problems with the TO5 trigger in my 48. It is built heavy enough that I don’t see any way that it could be easily broken.
      I have some other guns (pneumatic pumps) that have other plastic parts in the assembly. I do not care for this.

      twotalon


    • Milan,

      Yes, if by the trigger you mean the trigger blade, it is metal.

      The problem with the Hungarian disaster is that it has now reached the Donau/Danube, that passes through the most populated parts of central Europe.

      B.B.


  2. Cute little shooter and has just what I’d like to see on more guns, a cheap peep!

    I don’t depend on safetys on any gun, I’m used to target guns which don’t have ‘em. There was a photo going around not long ago of one of our boys shot, shot rather badly, over there in the sandbox. He was being carried in another guy’s arms, gear, rifle and all, and in real pain. His trigger finger was still aside the trigger not on it. The comment going with the photo was something like, Now that’s real trigger discipline. While I’ve not been tested in the way our young hero was, my trigger discipline is about like that, my finger has a mind of its own and stays off the trigger until bringing the gun up to shoot. It also has a good idea of how hard it’s pressing, it’s really a pretty smart little finger, I’m glad I took it along to all of those matches in the past. I’ve seen an unskilled shooter accidentally squeeze off a shot with a BB gun that must have had an 8-lb trigger. Probably not even conscious of the fact that their finger was on the trigger, and certainly not conscious of how hard it was pressing. This person could be trained to be just as good about these things as I am, with sufficient time and training. But you don’t have to demonstrate those skills to buy a Daisy, hence safetys and lawyer-triggers I guess.

    (Insert some abject hero-worship of B.B. Pelletier here for the excellence of the articles, the sheer output, the sheer quality blada blada blada)



  3. BB:
    Now I may be mistaken but was the Daisy No25 the rifle which used to be advertised on the back of Marvel Comics in the 70s?
    As a young pup I wanted that rifle so bad,I could have slapped the kid in the advert holding it.lol

    An article on ‘Roll your own’ ammo would be great BB.
    Never know when these skills may come in handy.
    DaveUK


    • Dave,

      Yes, the No. 25 was the BB gun we all lusted after. I ended up acquiring 8 vintage guns, from a 1913 model all the way to a like new 1952 model.

      In 1957 Daisy moved from Plymouth, Michigan to Rogers, Arkansas. The No. 25 continued to be made through 1978, I believe, but it got progressively cheaper. By then the stock was plastic and the painted finish looked pretty cheap, so I have never collected any of the post-Plymouth models.

      I may have to write a report on the No. 25 history to accompany this report.

      B.B.



      • BB:
        Daisy really hit the spot in the desirability stakes,no doubt about it.
        Thank goodness plastic is not seen as ‘Modern’ any more and they have returned to their roots.

        Milan:
        My interpretation of hold sensitive may be wrong but I would say no.
        I have been shooting the HW99s in my regular way (tight in the shoulder,firm grip on the fore stock)with no complaints but also trying the offhand artillery hold which has been a revelation.
        DaveUK



        • No you are right that means that it is not hold-sensitive ….as you know magnum airguns are extremely hold sensitive 34 is not an exception ,i saw B.B.s Youtube video and couple more about artilery hold and i am able to make decent groupings now off hand -but i am making my own “variations” of artilery hold ,i am still learning … ;)




    • Bruce and twotalon,

      The 1952 version of the No. 25 was a painted gun with plastic stock and pump handle. It was still engraved with the stamped engraving, and it was very attractive. After Daisy moved to Rogers in 1957 they let the finish quality of all their guns slip, which is why I only collect Plymouth guns.

      B.B.


      • Except for the different mechanism, it’s the same as the Red Ryder isn’t it? Those little Red Ryders are pretty fun little guns.


        • Flobert,

          No, the mechanism in the No. 25 differs from the Red Ryder in a number of ways. The powerplants are even different, as the Red Ryder uses a gravity-fed magazine and the 25 a forced-feed magazine.

          They have some parts that are similar, like a piston seal and air tube, but these are two very different mechanisms.

          B.B.


  4. BB: I’m glad Daisy choose to re-issue this one, despite their use of that clunky looking safety trigger that they use. My nephew received one from his parents for his birthday. He likes it much better than the Red ryder he had access to, claims it’s more powerful . He showed it to me and I must admit it is much better made than my plastic stocked 25 from the late 1960′s which I still have. Although I didn’t have a chance to shoot with it, I do think that the peep needs to have the aperature opened up a bit .
    Now if we could just get Crosman to re-issue a favorite from the past like Daisy has done with this one, Robert.


    • I would sure like a 1400 like the second one I owned. I mean just like…not Chinese.
      Don’t know what I would do with it though.

      twotalon


      • TwoTalon: I would like to see a modernized 101 or 102 pump repeater, with an extra clamp or two on the barrel pump tube assembly and scopable, but keeping it as retro looking as they could. A comemerative version maybe? Or perhaps a new version of the MK1 or 600, even if it did have a plastic bit or two,Robert.


        • One of my neighbors had a 600. I really wanted one, but never did see one in a store. Back then I did not have my own money, and had to do without things I wanted. No idea where to look for things either.

          twotalon


  5. There’s just something about a pump gun, any pump gun, that turns me on. Don’t have an explanation. Just racking the slide makes me smile.

    kevin


    • Kevin,

      Me too. I am almost as fascinated by the Winchester 61 as I am by the Daisy 25. And I have a Rossi copy of a Winchester 62. It’s delightful to shoot, even if it isn’t the most accurate .22 in the closet.

      But I’ll clue you in on one to avoid. The Nobel pump. Remember it from the 1950s? It had a longer stock that enclosed the receiver. Well, terrible accuracy!

      B.B.


      • B.B.,

        Don’t know anything about The Nobel pump. I still have my winchester 61 and the blue and red box it came in. Had a flood in my last home and the box got badly damaged. Fortunately the gun was in a safe so it’s still in great shape. Not very accurate but a blast to shoot. Something inherently fun about shooting these pump guns. You have to pry the 61 out the hands of anyone that shoots it for the first time. I really like this place since almost every day it brings back great memories.

        kevin


        • Kevin;

          That 61 might surprise you is you haven’t tried a number of different brands and styles of .22 ammo in it. Every .22 is a law unto it’s self. You will probably find one type that it really likes. You just never know what it will be. I have a Smith and Wesson Model 34 revolver that loves CCI Hi Velocity HP’s.
          Go figure, those aren’t supposed to be that accurate.

          Mike



  6. BB,
    I didn’t grow up with a 25, but I like it a lot. Maybe I’ll get one for Xmas:). The trigger and safety is the same sad kind of stuff they had to put on the Red Ryder — people should teach their kids something about the responsibility of having a gun rather than simply suing after their brat shoots another’s eye out.

    Also, I must not be an airgunner, because the MSDS I saw for Pellgun oil said it was LE Monolec GFS 30W — a diesel rated oil of exceptional detergency according to LE’s pamphlet. I would go by Daisy’s recommendation.


    • BG_Farmer,

      We went through this a couple of years back and Pellgunoil was 20 weight. Maybe Crosman has changed the spec since then.

      B.B.


      • BB,
        Maybe they changed the formulation at some point.

        Here’s the MSDS, and it appears to be legitimate:
        http://www.crosman.com/pdf/msds/MSDS-PELLGUNOIL.pdf
        Here are the actual manufacturer’s data sheets:
        http://www.le-inc.com/products/documents/8420-8450_flyer.pdf
        http://www.le-inc.com/products/documents/8420-8450_tdb.pdf

        Note the claim of “exceptional detergency” in the flyer. I researched this topic before and found only one report of seal failure on using detergent motor oil on very old, likely already deteriorated seals. That user reported that after he replaced the seals and switched to PellgunOil that he had no further problems:). I would have switched the seals and continued using motor oil, just to see what happened, and I wish he had done the same.


        • BG_Farmer,

          Thanks for all that info. Not only did they change the viscosity, they added detergents, which they used to expressly forbid! Daisy still does, I believe.

          The world is going too friggin’ fast.

          B.B.


          • BB,
            I can always be wrong (usually am according to my wife), but I think that’s what it is. Probably they both specifically recommended 20W ND at some point when that was a common oil and people needed to know exactly what to buy? 20 or 30W ND may not be a bad idea — I doubt the detergents are needed in this application, although I doubt they really do much harm. Maybe I’ll try it on my Powerline 1200 and report back in 10 years or so :) .


          • So what do we do now? Throw away our old Pellgunoil and buy new ones? If not, then why did they change it? If so, then the makers of Pellgunoil owe us a recall. If I get one more letter about joining some class action suite…
            -CJr


          • BB the “detergent” in those oils are actually used as surfactants, not cleansers or cleaners as we commonly think of detergents.

            Surfactants are widely used in the chemical industry as wetting agents or to reduce liquid surface tension. In the oils industry, their method to reduce surface tension could easily be the addition of a non volatile detergent(very small parts per thousand ratio).The use of those chemicals in the Crosman oil does not imply aggressive detergent or cleaning action in the oil.

            This is unlike motor oils for high speed internal combustion engines, where those added detergents are meant to scavenge or cleanse the metallic surfaces. Even in the motor oil environment (hot, acidic and carbon laden) the good motor oils with detergent additives do no direct damage or impinge on non-metallic seals such as gaskets and o-rings.

            When is the last time you heard an auto mechanic say “yup, blew the seals right out of there, he must have been usin them darn detergent oils again!”

            I think we air-gunners all worry too much about this stuff although, the Crosman product is very low volatile and very pure which does matter. (3 in 1 oil has neither of those attributes)

            Anyway… does anyone know the recipe to make your own Pellguoil in 50 gallon….. ha ha ha have a good weekend everyone


  7. in y’alls opinion, is it the gun or the magazine that is bad? The new to me #25 ( made in Arkansas) , when you screw the magazine in, it is crooked and will shoot way off target. No matter how I try, it will not screw in properly.

    Thanks.


  8. I’m confused about the pump action. Is it like a Benjamin 397 or a Mossberg 500 shotgun? I like the idea of a pump action myself.

    B.B., that’s quite a task you’ve set yourself to make handloading easy. Last night’s reading about loading primers says that the primer should be depressed below the end of the cartridge between .003 and .005 of an inch with .004 optimal. If the primer sticks out too far, you have an unsafe situation. Too far in and you may not get reliable ignition… Bring on your methods.

    PeteZ, courage is a good word for what is needed to get the shot off quickly and accurately. The strong urge is to delay, temporize and avoid. Each shot is like an epic in miniature. Borrowing from the Romans and somewhat from David Tubb, I believe that routine is the friend of courage. If I get rattled, I fall back on my sequence, and when the point comes for the shot to go, it HAS to go. More often than not, it turns out okay.

    BG_Farmer, what is it with the older generation whacking kids on the head? :-) The grandmaster of the martial arts style that I study relates that when first learning martial arts at the age of 5, his grandfather would hit him in the head when he made a mistake. Your grandfather sounds much more benign though. The grandmaster’s grandfather would follow up with another whack when he started crying which he learned not to do. Can’t argue with the results, but even the grandmaster says that this “old-fashioned way” is not for his students. Certainly, no one would pay for this kind of treatment today. You’re quite evocative and right about smoothly firing the shot. With the magazine on the IZH 61, you can string those moments together.

    I’m working on my own shooting theory in the total absence of any world championship or formal competition. Naturally, it follows Tubb and Yur’yev very closely. However, I believe in the vast details that there is a danger of losing the point and getting caught up in them. That will leave you like the vast majority of range shooters, belaboring minutiae and overstaring their shots. As I might have mentioned before, it is my suspicion that all of these details are less important for their physical effect than for their psychological effect in teasing out the subconscious which can do the work best. And while the subconscious needs to be cultivated, it also responds to being forced. Accordingly, my idea is called Gordian Knot Theory. For those not familiar with the story, Gordian was a semi-legendary Greek wise man who at the end of his life, tied an incredibly complicated knot around a post and said that the person who could unravel the knot would rule the world. Legions of people tried and failed. When Alexander the Great heard the story, he went up to the knot, took out his sword, and chopped it to pieces. Knot untied, and in fact, the prophecy was borne out by his exploits. The lesson of the wise man, as re-stated by David Tubb, is that for accomplishing difficult things, decisiveness can be more important than brains and reflection. This quality has also been called “executive ruthlessness”! It has been an interesting and somewhat unsettling observation of mine from the martial arts that a certain part of the human personality likes to be told what to do. In shooting terms, if you impose a certain routine on the shooting process, the subconscious will be evoked. Another more heartening observation from the martial arts and elsewhere is that if you put the human organism under productive stress, it will usually come through for you. So, here goes with the Gordian Knot Theory.

    Matt61


    • Matt,
      I think one has to understand writing for a living. When you write, especially novels, you get paid by the word so the impetus is on as many words as you can muster up in your story. Based on that, if you were to write a book yourself, you’d think up and include as much detail as possible to run up the word count. If you’ve ever noticed reading novels, that at some point in the story the author seems to be rambling on and going into way more detail than you think necessary. It’s because it pays more money.

      I believe the authors of your shooting books are going into so much detail for that reason. The publisher is paying them for so many words so they have to work harder to produce. I don’t mean to say the detail is not true because it most likely is, in their experience. I’m just saying they have a need to fill a book so they’re including as much information as possible.

      In your case, if the author hasn’t done it for you, it’s up to you to prioritize the detail and concentrate on the top 20%. As you’ve learned, it’s useful to understand the less important detail but not to dwell on it.

      -CJr


      • Chuck, I see your point. But I thought for publishing, at least in these troubled economic times, the emphasis was on reducing word counts to save on paper and ink. But I do know rambling when I see it. Not to offend anyone, but I gave a W.E.B. Griffith novel a try and came away with the worst impression. It was a fairly lengthy action novel about a secret, super-elite commando unit tasked with rescuing a DEA agent in South America–really my kind of story. Anyway, I read hundreds of pages with mounting incredulity as nothing happened at all. These military officers and government bureaucrats walked around insulting each other. Unwilling to write off my efforts, I persevered until the end. With only a few pages to go, the hero leaps out of a helicopter in an air assault, walks a few steps, and gets shot in the leg. When he wakes up, the mission is over. A con job I would say. Stick with Stephen Hunter for your action novels.

        Matt61


    • Matt,
      I hope I’m answering your question correctly. As I understand it the #25 pump is more like the Mossberg. Except the one pump cocks a spring, unlike the 397 which takes several pumps to build up air pressure.

      BB said this in the article: “The No. 25 is a pump-action gun. A firearms buff understands immediately what that means, but airgunners sometimes get confused. This gun is a spring-piston repeating BB gun that is cocked and loaded by the knee action of an articulated pump lever. The shooter pulls straight back on the pump handle but the lever is broken in the middle into two pieces that fold apart to lower the effort required to cock the piston. The word pump therefore has nothing to do with a pneumatic pump.”

      -CJr


    • Matt,

      The term pump ACTION means the action is pumped to cycle itself. That is a purely mechanical thing. Like I said in the report, this is a spring gun, not a pneumatic. To use your analogy, it’s like the Mossberg 500.

      Second, DO NOT OBSESS over what you read about reloading. The primer must be lower than flush–period.

      Just like Rosie the Riveter never used a measuring tool to measure the rivets she made in the fuselage of a P51 Mustang, we do not measure the depth of the primers. Oh, some folks do, but they are the same ones who rotate their radial tires.

      You FEEL the primer after seating, to make sure it’s below the rim of the cartridge. And you develop a feel for the priming tool, so you always seat the primer with the same amount of force. That’s why most advanced reloaders prefer to prime their cartridges with a handheld tool, unless they own a really fine progressive reloader like a Dillon. Seating primers with a single-stage press like an RCBS Rockchucker isn’t an effective use of time, plus it isn’t as accurate as seating with a handheld tool. And measuring the depth of the primer is really a waste of time.

      However, it does pay to reload brass with the same headstamp that’s from the same lot. That way, the primer pocket will not only be the same depth, give or take, but the shoulders at the bottom of the pocket will be all radiused the same. So then when you feel the seating of each primer, it will be seated to the same relative depth.

      There, you asked for my methods and I gave them to you. I bet all the oldtimer reloaders are doing something similar to what I said.

      Or do you guys all use a primer micrometer?

      B.B.


      • Matt61,

        I second what BB says – to a point. I use a Lee Loader single stage press. The only problems I’ve had with loading primers is not having them seated below the rim of the shell. My method is after I’ve seated the primer, I put the case on a flat surface. If the case doesn’t wobble but sits flat, it’s move onto the next one. For almost all shell cases, you will develop a feel for when the primer has seated fully. Only once did I pop off a primer that didn’t seat below the case. I tend to wear hearing protectors now during this operation, particularly when I have to seat a primer deeper because the shell’s pocket is a bit on the narrow side and offers more resistance than normal to seating the primer.

        I also rotate my radial tires front to back.

        Fred PRoNJ


        • I rotate my tires but have never heard of a primer micrometer. I gave away my reloading equipment many years ago to a good friend and am thinking about asking for all that stuff back since I’m starting to shoot powder burners again. Indian giver.

          Matt 61,

          Get a press, some powder, some dies, pick a tried and true recipe and start reloading. You’re making this a lot more complicated than it really is once you do it. Reminds me of reading a book in order to learn how to ride a bike. Find a guy that reloads and lives near you. Most reloaders need a little incentive to get in front of their press and someone like you that wants to learn would be a good excuse.

          kevin



            • You know it’s interesting to me that the term is attached to Native Americans when it is really the white man who repeatedly took the NA’s land, gave them another and then took that back later and gave them another and so on. Who was the real IG during that period?
              -CJr


            • rikib,

              Perhaps you are just reliving the Seinfeld episode about Indian giving?

              I’m also descended fro Indians and it doesn’t bother me.

              B.B.


              • B.B.
                In my statement I did say that “I” may be the only one to find it offensive:

                Definition of INDIAN GIVER
                sometimes offensive : a person who gives something to another and then takes it back or expects an equivalent in return.
                From http://www.merriam-webster.com

                rikib

                by the way I do like Seinfeld.


          • Gave away your reloading equipment? You must be the soul of generosity. It sounds like quite an investment. I see your point about how easy this is, but everyone says that who knows how to do something. I’m reminded of Marine ace Gregory Boyington during his stint with the Flying Tigers in China. He was watching tiny women carry burdens on their head that took two very muscular workers to lift. When Boyington and a fellow pilot tried to lift the loads, they could hardly budge them. In the rare instance when the women made a misstep on the slippery paths, their necks would break. But most of the time, they glided along, smiling and hardly breaking a sweat. This scene, he says, taught him the lesson that: “It’s all in knowing how.”

            Matt61


      • Gee, do I sound obsessed? Like maybe I’m reading the Lyman reloading manual every night with sweat rolling off my forehead? How very perceptive. :-) Yes, I’ve noted the importance of using the same lot of brass. As for the feel of the seated primer, which I suppose Mike was referring to, that’s a good method. But it does raise the question of how one develops this feel in the first place. This would be less of a big deal if my guns were not at stake. They must not blow up or be damaged by one of my screw-ups. However, with everybody’s help the problems are diminishing. As for the remainder, to quote the villain (a corrupt cop) in the film, The Witness, “I’m working on it.”

        Matt61


        • Matt,

          Not to worry. Everyone who reloads has misgivings in the beginning. Only after you have some success do you begin to realize that it is not rocket science.

          Perhaps two advantages I had when I started was both reading Elmer Keith’s “Sixguns” and shooting cap and ball revolvers. With them you load the revolver just as you would reload a cartridge, and the principals get transferred quickly.

          But I will show you how to do it, so don’t worry.

          B.B.


    • Matt61, 700 to 1000 repetitions/and or visualizations of a movement will make the movement a reflex.
      Once leaned, it will be there forever unless you replace it. It’s like “riding a bike”.

      You may have run across the concept in the Martial Arts.

      Mike


      • Mike, yes I have. In regards to one of the martial arts forms/katas in my style, the grandmaster sayeth: 1000 repetitions and you will know it; 3000 and that form is yours. So what movement are we talking about here? The feel of the seated primer?

        Matt61


        • Yes, and just about any physical movement that you wish to be able to do as a reflex. A learned reflex will be about three times faster that a cognitive movement, one you have to think to do. This will apply to lots of things like key boarding, using a manual transmission, shooting, playing the guitar, blocking a punch. Also, just thinking about doing the move counts the same a doing it.

          Mike


    • Matt,
      The whacks to the head were delivered as gently as a man with hands like oak stumps could manage :). Any time I shoot well (rarely), it goes back to those cool mornings by the creek shooting at a blaze on a stick of wood. I would take a thousand whacks on the head to do it one more time.

      CJr. has a point about writers in the shooting sports. Whether their methods work for us is another matter. Try them out, but don’t be surprised if some methods aren’t like wearing another man’s pants. I think you are going in the right direction by trying to find out what works for you and making your own way.


  9. I remember when having one of these No 25′s was the “cat’s meow”, especially if all you had was a Red-Rider, which my older brother got by selling Christmas cards. This really brings back memories.


  10. Back about 1930 my dad said a number of his friends had No. 25′s. He had a Benjamin front pump BB gun. He said that if they saw a squirrel, he always shot last. I think you know why.

    Mike


  11. B.B.

    Once again you’re making the credit card vibrate in my wallet. Mom wouldn’t let me have one of these when I was a kid. I guess I can thank her for still having vision in both eyes, though at age 62 it’s not too sharp.

    All my other airguns are pellet guns. What do you (or other contributors) suggest as a backstop for shooting this BB gun indoors? My brief experience with BB guns is that ricochet is a serious problem.

    Jim



    • I mentioned this several months ago as basically a free backstop. I only shoot .22 pellets.
      When I was getting rid of an old sofa to the local dump it occurred to me that the cushions might make for and excellent backstop. 4″ thick foam. So far it has worked out great for pinning or taping paper targets to if I don’t feel like plinking bottles or cans that day. If you don’t have an old sofa around you can probably drive around your neighborhood and find one that has been left out for garbage. I have even used (2) dirty home air filters 20×30 mounted to one side of a 1×4 frame w/plywood to bounce off of and be caught in the filter mesh (if that makes any sense). Just trying to make secondary uses out on things around the house.

      rikib


  12. Milan, I see you mentioning your 34 again. Have you finally found a spring source? If you remember I was in the same boat with the ‘Princess’. I bought a Maccari tune kit for it and have installed and tested it. Wow, what a difference! Much less hold sensitive – I’m not really sure why, the actual kit seems pretty simple. I’d really be interested to learning more about the engineering that went into producing such a big difference with such simple parts. Maybe Maccari could do a guest blog, wouldn’t that be something! I have to say that I do not notice reduced noise as many on the forums say and also cocking seems to be about the same. But no vibration and improved accuracy due to being easier to hold is money well spent to me! Hopefully you are now as happy with yours.


    • Fused i have bought two plain,ordinary springs new piston seal and i did add new washer(s) just for try out ,gun IS hold sensitive but smooth and accurate, now i didnt try my luck at the longer distances but at 20 m i am making coint size groups and i have spare spring” el cheapo” :) I am happy that you are happy with JM kit i would buy it too but financial problems would not let me to :) I would also like to see JM for the guest blog .


  13. BB, thanks for all you do. When you get to the reloading article, and I hope you do it, please let us know what you think of the Lee Loader, which is probably the absolute cheapest way to load ammo. But I don’t know if it as good or safe as having a press and other tools.
    –Mike U


    • Mike U.,

      I WILL use the Lee Loader, but one that’s even simpler than you may imagine. I used to use the original Lee Loader–the one where you pounded the cartridges into the resizing die with a plastic hammer. I have reloaded hundreds of .45 Colt cartridges with one, plus thousands of black power blanks for my gunfights at Frontier Village.

      I now have a Lee 1000 progressive press, a Rockchucker and a Forster single-stage press, along with a Dillon Square Deal B for .45 ACP, but I will show how to reload with a Lee hand tool! It is so simple, yet quite effective and a wonderful way to learn how to reload.

      B.B.


    • Mike U;

      They work but aren’t the best for semi-auto, lever, and pump rifle since they only neck size rifle rounds. It’s fine for pistol ammo if slow.

      Mike


  14. Mike U: A Lee Loader is very safe but slow. I have reloaded hundereds of .45ACP and 12 and 20 gauge shotshells with mine. To make them more useful you needed the Lee powder scoop set that gave you more options for loads with different powders. I still have mine,Robert.




      • I found it interesting that someone actually commented under the pics on how neatly and properly dressed the kids looked in those days – baggy flannel balloon pants with a rumpled suit coat and taxi cab driver hats? Looks pretty rebellious and disrespectful to me. :-)
        -CJr



      • They have tons of photos on Shorpy dug up from the National Archives. The National Archives have been taking their vast collections of negatives and scanning them for preservation. They have everything from Civil War photos in high resolution up to color Kodachrome photos of World War 2 and a little bit afterward. I would have never thought that there could be so much detail captured by old cameras.


        • Shawn,

          Did you know that Mac, who helps me test some airguns for this blog, is the head photographer at the National Archives?

          B.B.


  15. B.B.

    Something for you to try if your doctor will permit it….
    I tried some Boost (in the nutrition stuff at WM). Gives me a lot more energy and picks up strength pretty fast. It’s high protien.

    twotalon


    • twotalon,

      Thanks, I’ll look into it. Right now I am concentrating on more protein and fewer carbs. I need to regenerate cells to heal, and protein is what does that.

      I see that Boost has some protein, but I’ll have to check it against the other things and see where it leaves me.

      Thanks,

      B.B.


      • The bottles say 30% daily value. Carbs are not real high… 11%. Has some pretty good vitamin and mineral content.

        And the bottles (reddish brown chocolate) do not crack or shatter like anEnsure bottle in the warm sun.

        twotalon


  16. I’m leaving for two weeks of vacation tomorrow. My wife has established stringent guidelines on my use of a computer while we’re gone, so I will likely “disappear” until about 26 October.

    -pete


  17. You all know how much good information there is on this blog. However, many topics I read I can’t personally relate to or I think I’ll never need that, so after reading it it slides out of my head and evaporates. Well, wood finishing is one of those things I thought I would never need. Now, guess what? I have finally crafted my IZH-46M left-handed grips to be mirror images of the right-handed ones that came with the pistol and now I need all that wood finishing info that was talked about in scattered comments over the past few months. It would be so easy if I only had a brain.
    -CJr
    Oh, well, I’ll bet Mr. Google knows how to do it.


  18. B.B.,

    If you like this copy, I’ll order it just for the experience. As a kid, I had the model 36 / 102 I believe, which was a lesser version of the Red Ryder. Joe down the street had his father’s old No. 36 and you could tell it shot harder than mine. He never let me shoot it, which only added to my BB gun envy.

    Fast forward a few decades and you graciously sold me your anniversary addition 36, but I did not want to scratch it so I never assembled it, let alone fired it. Along with everything else it was sold off so I have still yet to hold an assembled 36 and pull the trigger.

    I will wait for your thumbs up.


    • Volvo,

      36? I sold you the centennial of the No. 25. It’s supposed to mimic the 1913 version of the 25.

      The 1936 variant is the only one that’s engraved. Well, the 1952 is, as well, but it’s just a further rendition of the 1936.

      This looks to be an interesting BB gun.

      B.B.


      • B.B.

        You are correct – it was the 25, and that is what I meant to say the entire time in my post. Except when I mention the one I owned as a kid in the 1960′s.

        Perhaps my first senior moment.


        • Volvo,
          Daisy got the feel right on the latest Red Ryder despite modern compromises, so I think the 25 would be worth checking out. I saw one (new 25 in blister pack) in WM this week, and it looks pretty good.


          • Bg Farmer,

            At the price it sells for I can justify it based on all the money I save on cigarettes. (I quit in 1991, but I still use it as an excuse for none essential purchases. I may be stretching the limits.)


  19. More 97K plinking this morning. Have used almost a tin of Exacts so far. This time shooting spinners at about 30 yds (from a rest of sorts).
    Object today besides becoming more familiar with the rifle was to practice getting on target and getting the shot off faster. Not attempting to get fantastic groups or perfect hits. Speeding myself up with the shot before the wobbles and panic shots could set in.

    When I was about done, I got some more ”live’ practice.
    Flock of starlings landed on top of the nearby electric tower. 50-55yds.
    Picked one out and thought process began….
    About the same speed, distance and elevation angle that I use with the TSS at this same location.
    Allow for different BC, scope height, wind drift, and drop. Pull trigger.
    Starling departs from perch in a much different direction than his buddies took.

    That’s the second time in a week or so. First was with a Pred instead of an 8.4 Exact.
    I must be getting good at doing this.

    twotalon


  20. Twotalon,

    I know the game is over played, but if I really could have only one air rifle for eternity I think it would be an HW97K.

    It’s only fault is that it is a little heavy, but then so am I.


    • Easier to shoot just one gun than to keep switching around. That tends to cause me problems.

      It does seem to get lighter if you shoot it long enough. Makes the lighter guns feel super light.

      That may be the secret…
      Find a gun you like best and just shoot that one.

      twotalon


  21. Great gun for the money. I’ll have one in my collection soon, along with a Red Ryder, just for nostalgia.

    My hold up, is that I’m trying to decide between the Steel storm, EBOS, & MP5, which I’ll order
    at the same time to take advantage of the free shipping.
    I really like the Blackbird with all the mod possibilities, but am having a hard time justifying the price.
    Of course the MP5 being a replica is great, but it’s only semi auto, so I’m leaning towards the Steel Storm & the EBOS, & when you think about it, you can get all three for about the price of ONE Blackbird. Hence why I hesitate on the Blackbird.

    I think my next order, will be a 25, a Red Ryder, an MP5, & either the Steel Storm or the EBOS.

    B.B.

    I’m just waiting for your report on the EBOS to help me decide. ;)

    P.S.

    Glad to have you back & see that you’re doing much better now.

    Due to moving, I’ve only been on-line for the most part just to keep up with the emails,
    & check to see how you were. so I have a lot of catching up to do on your blog.

    Again… It’s great to have you back.

    All my best,

    Mike aka TheBBA



      • B.B.,

        That’s good to hear. I can’t wait.

        I, & I’d bet I’m not alone, when I say that I’d be very interested to hear which you prefer & why,
        between the EBOS & the Steel Storm.

        TheBBA


  22. I am looking for the model 25 manual. I was ripped off by someone who said they would sell me a copy for $6.00 and never got it. My old model 25 is in pieces and want to put it back together. Does anyone have one? It was made in Plymouth, Mich.



  23. Does anyone know for sure if the spring in the early #25′s was stronger than the current (safety trigger) models? I recently bought a new model 25 and it’s velosity is running in the 315-320 fps range and I seem to remember that they were stronger when I was a kid and would shoot through one side of a galvanized steel garbage can, or am I dreaming?

    10mm, when you care enough to send the very best.


    • Flightsimmer,

      The pre-1930 Daisy No. 25 was indeed more powerful than the guns made after that date. They will shoot a steel BB at 375 f.p.s. and a lead one (the ammo they are supposed to use) at 315.

      B.B.


  24. I have an older No. 25 with a very weak main spring. Is it a difficult part to replace and do you know where I could order one from? Thanks


    • Dave,

      The spring in an older No. 25 is no longer available. You have to get one out of a used gun. And replacing the spring is a real chore unless you have a jig to do it.

      My advice is to have your gun overhauled by this man:

      Larry Behling
315-695-7133 or  co2bbjlts@juno.com

      He may have the parts if you want to try to do it yourself.

      B.B.


  25. I am curious about dating a No25. I was just given a what appears to be an old one. The most distinctive trait is what appears to be case hardened pump levers.

    There are five patent numbers but no dates: 1,097,244 – 1,114,491 – 1,136,470 – 1,220,649 – 1,573,383 -


    • Drdeano,

      I seldom like to give advice on dating, but if it feels right, just don’t go too fast! ;)

      Seriously, though, tell me this:

      What wood is the stock made from?

      How many grooves are in the pump handle?

      Describe the rear sight in detail.

      What does the head of the take-down screw look like?

      Is there a screw on top of the pistol grip?

      Is there a pistol grip, or is it straight?

      What’s the distance from the front of the pump handle to the muzzle?

      How is the BB held in the shot tube?

      Answer those questions in detail and we’ll narrow it down for you.

      B.B.


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