Benjamin Marauder pistol – Part 1

by B.B. Pelletier


Benjamin’s new Marauder air pistol is a large, powerful precharged air pistol. It will be among the very few legitimate hunting air pistols.

When Crosman announced the new Benjamin Marauder PCP pistol at the 2010 SHOT Show, airgunners in the know turned into preschoolers awaiting Christmas. And, without a bit of irony, we’re now there and the pistol is out! The release of the first 100 guns was widely celebrated on this blog, as well as many other popular hangouts on the internet.

What is the Marauder pistol?
Okay, I plan to discuss this next aspect well enough that everybody should get it. Yes, the Marauder is an air pistol, but no, that doesn’t mean that you can put it in your pocket or that there is a holster for it — yet. When you think of the Marauder pistol, don’t think of a smaller sidearm like a Colt M1911A1 or a Ruger Blackhawk revolver. Those are one-hand guns. The Marauder is more like a Thompson Center Contender pistol that can be chambered in .270 Winchester and can drop a mule deer at 200 yards. You need to think about that as you lust for one. It may be an air pistol, but it’s a big one.

The gun is 18 inches long. It has a 12-inch barrel that’s fully shrouded, which is where some of the size comes from. And, veteran readers of this blog understand that, in a pneumatic gun, the length of the barrel equates to the power of the gun, because the air needs time to push on the tail of the pellet. In spring guns that use a tiny fraction of the amount of air the Marauder precharged pistol uses, the air is compressed and released in an explosive blast that lasts only a few milliseconds. Pellets shot from springers are like champagne corks bursting from bottles; pellets shot from PCPs are like ballistic missiles that have calculated burn times.

The trigger
The grip frame of the gun will look remarkably similar to one from a Crosman 2240 pistol — this is the model 2220, after all. It looks that way because that’s where it comes from, but the trigger’s much better. As I look the gun over, I’ll have more to say about the trigger; for now, know this — it’s two-stage. Stage two is adjustable for pull weight, stage one is adjustable for length of pull (travel) and can be adjusted out to make the trigger into a single-stage unit. There’s also an overtravel screw that can be set to stop movement of the trigger blade the moment it’s released the sear. That gives you the feeling of precise trigger control. And, of course, there’s a positive trigger-blocking safety that’s fully manual. In all, this is a fine trigger and fully what you’d expect to find on a Marauder.

Shoulder stock extension is standard!
One additional blessing this grip frame brings is that there will be aftermarket and Crosman Custom Shop grips in no time at all. And, in what has to be one of the best single decisions I have seen in a long time, this gun comes standard with an extension shoulder stock! Yes, they knew we wanted one and they provided it without our asking. Brilliant move! It stops those asking for a Marauder carbine before they can ask.


The icing on the cake. Benjamin provides a shoulder stock that most shooters are going to want, and it comes with the basic gun.

Being a pneumatic, the pistol needs an air reservoir, and, given the overall size of the gun, it has a generous one. That’s important, of course, because the Marauder is a .22 caliber pistol. This is a hunting airgun and a serious bruiser that we will measure well in part 2 of this report. The reservoir fills at the front, just like the Benjamin Discovery and the Benjamin Marauder air rifle.

In the forearm, there’s a reliable onboard pressure gauge to tell you at a glance the state of the air charge. Once you start becoming familiar with your own gun, you’ll quickly learn the nuances of this gauge that should become part of your shooting procedures. By that, I mean that each gun is an individual and your gauge will help you learn exactly how your gun performs.

According to the manual, the gun comes set to operate on a 2,900 psi fill but can be adjusted up as high as 3,000 psi. I don’t plan to adjust the fill pressure during this test, because it doesn’t affect the performance of the gun that much. I want to know the realistic power and accuracy of the gun as I received it, and I’ll leave the fringe testing to the soon-to-be hundreds of new owners. No doubt, the next year will be a very busy time for them as they explore the limits of this fine new pistol.

There are no sights, so some type of optical sight will be required. The top of the aluminum receiver is grooved for 11mm dovetails. There’s zero recoil, so no thought need be given to a scope stop. The magazine sticks up above the top of the receiver, so two-piece mounts will be required to straddle the protrusion.

More innovation!
As if all of the above weren’t enough, the bolt handle is designed to work equally well on either side of the receiver. It comes from the factory set out to the right side, but if you want it to stick out to the left, the change is possible. Some disassembly of the gun is necessary to make the change, and Crosman recommends sending it back to them, but I know that savvy airguners will make their own changes.

And then some more…
Just like the Marauder rifle, the pistol lets you adjust the power curve and air fill pressure level. Experimenters will delight in finding just the right combination of pellet and fill pressure to give what they feel is the optimum number of shots correlated to the power level. The one thing the pistol doesn’t have that the rifle does have is the variable air transfer port. Instead, it offers both the hammer spring tension and the length of the hammer stroke. It should satisfy most owners, and old guys like me will find one setting that works and forget the adjustments exist after that.

Is that a lot of innovation? Well, it doesn’t end there, because the Marauder pistol is an 8-shot repeater, as well. So, in my mind, it simply doesn’t get any better. What more could you ask for, besides a revocation of the laws of physics that those unfamiliar with airgun operations dream up while sitting on their thinking stools…

“Benjamin really missed the boat with this one. What I would like to see is a full-auto pistol with at least 100 shots before it needs refilling! And, an onboard chronograph that speaks to you would really be cool, too.”

I like the gun
Can you tell that I like the new Marauder pistol? I’m sorry that this report sounds like a sales pitch, but I really am impressed with everything I see. I’ve avoided nonsense observations like the plastic-to-metal ratio (only the grips, forearm and shoulder stock extension are plastic) or where the freaking’ barrel band is placed (except to note that it’s never in the right place), because in my time of looking at airguns I haven’t seen very many with this level of innovation and value. I’m sorry that the gun costs almost $400, but my gosh, a gallon of gas costs me almost three dollars and I still seem to buy as much of it, as I still need to go where I want to go. I guess what I’m saying is that this new airgun is a serious shooting platform, and the data of how cheaply an offshore manufacturer can produce a gun I would never buy has no impact here. If you want nice toys, you have to pay for them.

This is Friday. Please chew this one up and digest it for me, so I’ll know what I need to look at in future reports. I really do value all of your observations.

124 Responses to “Benjamin Marauder pistol – Part 1”

  • Frank B Says:

    Now this IS special! It’s like the 2240 and 1322 platforms taken all the way into the 21st century
    with style.Every REALISTIC wish has been granted!Repeater,check….quiet power,check….carbine,check…….someone else to pump it for a few bucks if you have a tank,check…mess with it if you want to,check……domestic quality,check…..reasonable price,check.Squirrels ain’t gonna like this….

  • Mr B. Says:

    Morning B.B.,

    First of all you should have seen my smile which was followed by it’s finally here when the I opened up the blog. Twelve inch barrel and 2900 psi sounds kinda like my Talon SS as far as its power goes.

    Frank B is correct in his post–every wish has been granted, that is if the Benjamin Marauder pistol lives up to our expectations.

    However, I wonder how it’d work with a longer barrel? You know how some of us are–never satisfied.

    Bruce

    • twotalon Says:

      Mr B.

      For shame! You had to be the first to ask about a mod.

      How about a 24″ LW barrel, shroud extension, air reservoir extent ion, bigger air valve, heavier hammer, heavier hammer spring, larger caliber, and a custom stock???

      twotalon

    • Frank B Says:

      Malcontent!

  • J-F Says:

    I’m sitting on a fence here… this is my dream airgun but I can’t buy it here, so I’m not sure if I should read the rest of the report and marvel at the wonderful airgun that I will never be able to buy/shoot or try to forget about it (no way I could do that), maybe I could rent a small room across the border and keep my “illegal” airguns there and go shoot them once in a while?
    A solid, quiet, good looking, takedown, repeater, carbine… don’t tell me it’s accurate too!
    How hard is it to get a green card?

    J-F

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      J-F,

      I know how bollixed you are on this pistol, because the shroud presents more of a problem than the power. The only consolation I can offer, and it is really weak, is that you could attend the airgun show in Baldwinsville, N.Y. and arrange to spend a day with one. I’m quite sure some American airgunner would be happy to help you do at least that.

      Of course travel is a problem, but since I drive to many of these shows, it’s less of an issue in my eyes than are the legal issues.

      B.B.

      • Frank B Says:

        J-F,what happens when you run into another airgun that you think there’s a chance you would like more? Another apartment,that’s what.What happens when she finds .177 pellets ?? One would be no big deal…..but why are there domes AND wadcutters? Where WERE YOU last night????

      • J-F Says:

        WOW wouldn’t that be the sweetest torture?
        It will be mine one way or another… if I don’t smuggle one in, I’ll make one with aftermarket parts, I don’t think I’ll be able to resist this one forever.
        If the silhouette was less expensive I could go this way but it would be a lot less fun.
        Maybe PA could offer some pre-packaged deals like they do with so many other airguns?

        J-F

        • J-F Says:

          Almost forgot… Crosman posted this on Facebook today :

          Marauder PCP Pistols with serials #76-100 will go on sale at 11:00am, Tuesday, December 14

          Maybe I have time to move before tuesday?

  • KidAgain Says:

    This pistol is everything I had outlined about a year and a half ago for a purpose built gun. It’s my list incarnate! It’s unfortunate for me that I presently am not in a financial place to buy it. It’s buggin’ the daylights out of me. I will most likely sell off some stuff (guns, tools, pets, friends, whatever) and get one after the new year.

    ka

  • kevin Says:

    I’ve anxiously awaited the arrivel of the Marauder Pistol/Carbine since it’s peers cost at least twice as much. I think of the TDR and the Ranchero. I think Crosman should be proud of the introductory pricing. I have visions of detailed trigger adjusting, maybe trigger mods, details of hammer spring and hammer stroke adjustment to respect the power of this pistol/carbine while increasing shot count and a wood carbine stock from the after market modders. I’m also hoping that someone can design baffles to insert into the empty shroud to quiet it down.

    This is one of the most exciting new airgun introductions to me in a long time and I have high hopes.

    kevin

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Kevin,

      You settled it for me. I’m going to try to get permission to run the graphic of how the trigger adjusts in the next part. I debated whether to put it in this report or not. I guess I should just have done it.

      B.B.

      • kevin Says:

        B.B.,

        Thanks. I’ve yet to see the trigger graphic. The few first hand reports that have come out say 25-30 ounce trigger. I’ve also heard the sear and link are sintered (powdered) which makes them almost impossible to polish without still having a surface that “grabs”.

        As stated previously, I’m very excited about the new Marauder Pistol and have been following it closely. If it’s accurate, can be made quiet and the trigger pull can be dramatically improved I’m buying one. I’ll put a wood carbine on it and a small scope.

        I’m thrilled you started this series since your first hand information is reliable and unbiased and because it usually means that Pyramyd Air will have them in stock soon!

        kevin

  • kevin Says:

    John R,

    Heard from Michael Tawn. He no longer has a 30mm mount for webley/fwb guns. The mount you ordered doesn’t have the arrestore bar to fit in the cross slots atop your receiver to insure that the mount doesn’t creep rearward. From my perspective you have 3 options:

    1-Modify the 30mm mount you order to work on your FWB124. You will need to drill a hole in the rear of your new mount to fit a round headed screw. You will need to file/dremel the round head on your screw in order to make it look and act like a horizontal bar that fits in the cross slots atop the receiver of your gun or;

    2-Return or sell the incorrect mount you just bought and buy 30mm rings attached to a base that doesn’t have a the correct arrestore bar to prevent the mount from moving but instead uses tremendous clamping force to keep it in place atop your gun. The 6 screw BKL would be the one I would recommend: http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/BKL_1_Pc_Mount_30mm_Rings_3_8_or_11mm_Dovetail_4_Long_6_Base_Screws_Matte_Black/2913 or;

    3-Return or sell the incorrect mount you just bought. Use a scope with a one inch tube and buy the mount designed for use on an FWB 124. You have the option of buying the correct mount for the FWB 124 as either a two piece or one piece and have options of height as well. I’ve used 2 piece medium on my FWB 124′s with great success. Joe has several new in the package 2 piece medium sportsmatch mounts that were made specifically for the FWB124 to mount a 1″ scope and he is in the USA and will sell them. Here’s his email:

    joejeweler@yahoo.com

    kevin

  • DaveUK Says:

    BB:
    For goodness sake,here I am on the road of wood stocked springer righteousness and along comes this.
    Good job that Marauder pistol/carbine wasn’t in the shop when I bought my HW, it would have definitely caused a “Ooh hello” moment :)
    DaveUK

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Dave,

      Seriously, though, wouldn’t the power potential, which I expect to exceed 12 foot-pounds by a little, have been a problem for you? Is the UK legal limit for air pistols still 6 foot-pounds?

      B.B.

      • DaveUK Says:

        BB:
        Yes,unfortunately I understand 6foot-pounds is the limit for our air pistols but hold the phone.
        The carbine incarnation of the Marauder I am not sure about.
        If the Marauder develops over 12 foot-pounds like you say then I think it is game over either way.
        Shame,that is one mean bit of kit.
        DaveUK

        • J-F Says:

          What I was told about that is if it comes with a shoulder stock apparently it’s considered a rifle.
          That seems to be our Canadian rule.

          J-F

      • Bristolview Says:

        Ok, after seeing the threads from our friends in Canada and the UK…. we have it pretty good here in the States. Sorry to hear about those limitations on you guys. That bites huge.

    • Milan Says:

      Hi Dave :) you have my support to stay on these wood-stocked roads :) my opinion is -it is always better to have self containing unit(rifle that you don’t need to fill with compressor -no offence to the “dark side” ;) )

      • DaveUK Says:

        J-F and Bristolview:
        Thinking about it,if the Marauder pistol was to drop a couple of Foot-pounds and be marketed as a Carbine/rifle I can’t see how it wouldn’t be able to sell over here.
        Maybe barrel length comes into the equation as to what is classed as a pistol.
        Who knows how the minds work at ‘the Ministry of silly walks’ in Whitehall.

        Milan:
        Yes,must be strong,fight the urge to delve into Tactical plastic PCP madness :)
        DaveUK

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    The first thing that I noticed when I opened up the blog was the sheer size of the pistol. I had seen (drooled over) photos of this gun before, but …. dang! Look at the size of it!

    I hate to beat dead horses but I contend Crosman made a mistake not including open sights on this gun. They got away with it on the rifle version, but having a scope be mandatory on a pistol just aint right. Especially one as big as this. Add the scope and mounts, and most people are going to want to use the shoulder stock to better support and stabilize the weight. So now you have a carbine. Which is essentially a rifle. I already HAVE a Marauder rifle. I have no need of two.

    I’m holding my breath for the Marauder bullpup. As long as I am in Fantasyland, the Marauder bullpup would be made in America/fully shrouded with baffles/have a 12 shot magazine made out of metal/have a manual safety on the top where it belongs, NOT in the trigger guard/be cocked with a bolt, not a sidelever/have a metal trigger that is rounded, to accommodate the shape of a human finger/be made out of whatever composite that IZH uses for the 60 and 61. Did I mention open sights? It should have removable open sights.

    Look at that, I got drool all over the keyboard.

    • Bub Says:

      Overall I’m quite impressed with the pistol. The shoulder mount was a great addition. I agree on the open sights, for this kind of money open sights is not too much to ask for. It would have offered an option for those wanting a lighter weight hunting pistol/carbine or a nice little youth trainer(carbine). I wonder if the shrouded barrel had something to do with their decision. The only other disappointment, was they went with a 11mm dovetail instead of a weaver rail currently offered on a number of their guns. The weaver would have allowed a greater option of optics, including some nice red dot sights.

      HOWEVER, you can’t put every feature everyone wants in every product….Bub

    • Matt61 Says:

      Slinging Lead, I agree with you generally about open sights. Why not make them standard since they don’t interfere with a scope?

      What exactly would an airgun bullpup look like? My understanding of a bullpup is having the magazine behind and not in front of the pistol grip. Would that be worthwhile for an airgun? I also understand that bullpups have accuracy problems because of the increased distance in linkage between certain internal parts compared to the standard configuration. Not sure if this problem has been cleared up for firearms.

      Matt61

      • Mr B. Says:

        Matt61,

        The difficulty wiht the bull pup design is not accuracy, but getting a decient trigger pull because of the distance from the trigger to the rest of the action. The best solution probably would be some type of electronic trigger. However, the price would probably be stunning.

        Bruce

  • Wayne Burns Says:

    B.B.

    Thanks for the Marauder Pistol review. I actually just bought one from a yellow classified add. (right place at the right time).. I helped some guy make $25 profit, and got #58 new unfired, of the original 100. I don’t think I will use it… but still having a hard time not playing with it… so great you can play with yours and let me know if it’s half as good as it looks…

    so then, if all is well in your review.. I’ll order 3 or 4 more for the air rifle range from PA… This is a perfect pistol field target gun too. The PFT crowd is waiting… and grabbing what they can from that first 100, when they can… I got one, but the collector in me doesn’t want to touch it:-)

    So, I would like your reviews asap!!! because I want to place an advanced order, and get some of the very first production.. Barrel tooling wears out, so one would like to get some early ones, rather than later ones..

    Tim at Mac I was testing some .25 cal Marauders recently, and he said the first ones were real tack drivers, but the last batch were all terrible!.. had to ask Crosman for replacement barrels.. which are coming.. good for Crosman! They replace the tooling, eventually, but first off the fresh tooling are the best ones.

    Wacky Wayne,
    Match Director,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Wayne,

      Well, you know I will test what they sent me. I sure hope I got an accurate one, because the rest of the package was, as I said this morning, one of the best values I have seen.

      B.B.

  • Brian in Idaho Says:

    I recognized the “2240 frame” heritage by the usual mismatch of the sideplate!

    Wish they would have invested in a new, cleaned up version of that frame area!

  • A.R. Tinkerer Says:

    BB,

    One question first. Is the barrel really 12″ or is it 12″ with the shroud? I read that the actual barrel was about 8″.

    Now we’ve had a chance to ponder over the Marauder pistol for almost a year except for the mystery features (like the trigger). Here are the features that I feel make the gun worth the money (even though I can’t buy one).

    1) Repeater
    2) The new two stage trigger – I think they did a fantastic job of fitting this in the old 22xx pistol frame (with minor modifications)! There’s a knockoff already.
    http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1291006643/M-Rod+Pistol+Type%2C++2+Stage+Trigger+for+My+1377+Pumpmaster+Classic..
    3) Choked barrel
    4) Shroud

    It would be nice to have iron sights, but I notice that the breech doesn’t have the cross cut dovetail groove that would accomodate the LPA mim sight.

    I think Crosman did great for a high end model (corresponding to the Marauder rifle), but they need to bring a Discovery pistol out too (22xx frame, adjustable 22xx trigger [not 2 stage], 22xx steel breech, Marauder pistol size air tube, Discovery valve, 12″ barrel, no shroud)! It should sell for a little less than the Discovery rifle (between $200 & $250).

    Just my $0.02,
    AR

    • Edith Gaylord Says:

      A.R. Tinkerer,

      The Crosman website says it comes with a “12-inch choked and shrouded barrel.”

      Edith

      • A.R. Tinkerer Says:

        Thanks Edith,

        I did forget to mention one thing. I think it is fantastic that Crosman designed the breech so the bolt can switch sides! That is a nice feature!

        Good job Crosman!

        AR

  • Mike Says:

    Very Nice. I don’t own a PCP, only “Old School” stuff. But this could be the first if it’s “all there.” It looks to be more of a carbine than a pistol. Which is OK.

    Mike

  • Mike Says:

    Does anyone know why american airgunner hasn’t been shown on it’s regular time slots recently?

  • Matt61 Says:

    B.B., hope your recovery is continuing to go well and that you are pain-free. I take it this Marauder pistol has an identical action to the rifle. It’s a fine piece of hardware but I just have not quite grasped the notion (appeal?) of handgun hunting. It seems more like a novelty. I had actually thought of the analogy with the TC Contender pistol as well. The included stock is another tip-off to me that this weapon is on the border between rifle and pistol.

    Slinging Lead, how prescient of you. If I were to own a breakbarrel it would be either the HW30 or the Bronco. The HW30 fell out of the running with the astronomical price increase of awhile ago. Not sure if they have fixed that yet.

    Matt61

    • A.R. Tinkerer Says:

      Matt61,

      No, from what I’ve read, the Marauder pistol has a new trigger, it isn’t the same as the rifle. It fits in a slightly modified 22xx frame. See
      http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1291006643/M-Rod+Pistol+Type%2C++2+Stage+Trigger+for+My+1377+Pumpmaster+Classic..

      (note: both periods are part of the link so you may have to copy and paste it)

      AR

    • Slinging Lead Says:

      Matt

      My understanding of a bullpup is the trigger being ahead of the breech. A distinction without a difference I suppose. I see the bullpup as ideally suited for the PCP rifle. You get a full length barrel, which is good for all pneumatics, in carbine length.

      There is an airgun manufacturer named Edgun, they are Russian I think. They are known for their bullpup designs. http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1260040720/FS+++Edgun+Matador+-22. As I look at the Matador, it actually looks like it could be made by Crosman. Even the font on the side. They are known for exceptional accuracy, although it is hard to figure out how the linkage for the trigger could work smoothly. There is also a bullpup firearm, I can’t remember the name, that is being used by several country’s armed forces. It has the power and accuracy of a rifle, but the size and weight of a submachine gun. Ugly as sin though.

      I usually go for the traditional rifle/pistol look, but the bullpup is a design where function trumps fashion.

      • Slinging Lead Says:

        Matt

        Forgot to mention. I used to have a Bronco, but gave it to my nephew as a birthday present. The only thing that displeased me was the sights. But for less than half the price of one of my speeding tickets, it is an outstanding breakbarrel. Light, comfortable, easy to cock and accurate. The bluing is impressive. I have actually been secretly eyeing the ‘blemished’ Bronco PA has for $107. I miss having this philly in my stable.

  • Volvo Says:

    Matt61,

    We are on the same page here. Until a powerful air pistol can be made that will fit into a holster about the size needed for a SA Colt with a 5 1/2 inch barrel, they will continue to be just niche pieces.

    Add the shoulder stock and now it is way closer to a carbine than a pistol, yet it lacks the 30 ft lbs a PCP carbine can deliver. As Slinging mentioned, the mandatory scope also negates pistol usefulness. If Crosman was listening, how could they not have heard all the cries for a real carbine sized Marauder?

    A swing and a miss for me, but to each their own.

  • twotalon Says:

    On a lighter note….

    A 4-16x Centerpoint that is busted because the front lens spring has jumped over it’s retaining shoulder can’t be fixed by installing it backwards on a Diana 48 and shooting it 10 times.
    Recoil jumps it out, but will not jump it back.

    twotalon

  • kevin Says:

    Matt61 & Volvo,

    I understand your asessment of the Marauder pistol if viewed only as a pistol but since the carbine stock is included I think Crosman was listening. This new Marauder pistol is a mini marauder carbine. Based on specs this little gun can generate 12-15 fpe. Great hunting gun for small game. The pistol doesn’t appeal to me but the carbine has great appeal. Potentially a great pesting gun.

    I can’t help but compare the Marauder carbine to one of my favorite pcp’s, the Ranchero carbine. The Marauder pistol/carbine is available from PA for $389.00 and the Ranchero costs 3 times that!

    I’m optimistic about the Marauder carbine:

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1290967130/Marauder+Pistol+Optimism

    kevin

    • Mr B. Says:

      kevin,

      Thanks for the link to your Ranchero, a very beautiful and interesting gun. Didn’t you put the finish on the pistol stock?

      My son, Ben, is in the process of building a guitar any advice, books or web sights?

      Bruce

      • kevin Says:

        Mr B.,

        Appreciate the compliment. Yes, I refinished the pistol and carbine stock using RLO. I’ll never refinish another ranchero pistol or carbine stock. When you look at these stocks you will notice that there isn’t a flat surface anywhere! Winter boredom is the only reason those got finished last year.

        The only suggestions I have for Ben are take your time steaming the sides and find someone that knows how to build up a laquer finish. He’s entering a realm that I never traveled.

        kevin

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    BB

    From yesterday. The Hy-Score I recently bought is all I thought it would be and more. It is a rifle from a different age. It is astounding to think of all the handiwork that went into each one. The built-in pellet seater is a very thoughtful addition. I am thinking this was not put on for any random reason, and that the manufacturer knew what they were doing when they incorporated this rather unique feature.

    One day I hope to shake the hand of the man who sold it to me.

    • kevin Says:

      Slinging Lead,

      Congratulations on the Hy-Score 801. Never had one of those. You’re assembling quite an arsenal!

      Since you apparently have some interest in the Russian made Edguns I thought you might find this interesting. Scroll down towards the bottom to see the Edgun Cricket which is the latest, multi-shot version of the Hooligan:

      http://www.network54.com/Forum/644824/thread/1250875274/last-1250875274/New+Edgun+LELA,+compact+bullpup

      kevin

      • Slinging Lead Says:

        Kevin

        Thanks for that link. The quality of machining is obvious from those photos.

        Do you have any personal experience with an Edgun? If not, perhaps it is time to host another shootout at the Lentz homestead. That gathering you hosted must have been a one of a kind experience.

        • kevin Says:

          Slinging Lead,

          Never seen an Edgun in person let alone shoot one. For that matter I’ve never shot a bullpup. I’m not sure I’d like a cheek weld on a receiver but I’ll try anything once. This is one type of gun that I need to try before I buy. The Edgun has always intrigued me though.

          Hosted another airgun shoot last Sunday. That was my fifth time hosting an airgun shoot. High of only 45 degrees. None of the guys I shoot with own an Edgun either. One of the guys has shot one and he was amazed at the accuracy. This further fueled my interest in the Edgun since he has a .22 caliber BSA Lonestar that was tuned and recrowned that is unbelievably accurate at 50 yards.

          kevin

      • Chuck Says:

        Holy cow! And I thought I was done lusting after pellet guns.
        -Chuck

  • Jane Hansen Says:

    B.B.
    I for one, have been waiting a long time for this one. I am right in line with Wayne – juts dying to see how your review on this goes. It may be my next PCP.

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    Just noticed that the Marauder pistol is selling for less than the Silhouette on PA’s site. If I didn’t already have a Marauder I would be jumping on this one. Seems like the time to buy is now.

  • Lloyd Says:

    BB,
    I am really glad that you are doing so much better.
    All the other pistols on the market seem to have at least one, “if only it had…..,” but this one looks like another home run for Crosman. They certainly like to keep innovation at the forefront.
    Lloyd

  • Loren Says:

    John R, & kevin,

    You do not need those exotic scope mounts on your FWB 124, the two piece BKL will not move. I know since I have them on mine . You can use the one piece if you so desire but not necesary. the dove tail on the FWB is wider so you must use the spreader screws as per included instructions this actually makes them grip tighter. They will not move and do not have to be overtorqued.

    Loren

    • kevin Says:

      Loren,

      Really depends on the scope. On my first FWB 124 the only unmounted scope I had laying around was a leapers swat full size. Big heavy scope. Mounted it in 2 piece BKL’s and it wouldn’t quit moving. Those were the old, supposedly better quality BKL’s, back in the day before they quit manufacturing. I’ve bought BKL’s since the new manufacturer re-started production and haven’t had a problem but I digress.

      As a result of those experiences I’m now a fan of using correct mounts and smaller scopes. If that’s not an option I personally prefer to spread the clamping pressure along the thin tube of the FWB 124 using a one piece mount. I’m glad that the 2 piece BKL mounts are working for you.

      kevin

  • David H Says:

    BB,

    Just wondering why the 10 shot mag from the Marauder rifle wasn’t used. It would have been nice if they were interchangeable since I have the rifle.

    David H.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      DavidH,

      The Marauder Pistol receiver is different than the rifle receiver and the larger magazine will not fit.

      B.B.

      • David H Says:

        BB,

        Do you think this was done as a means of saving weight or as a way to keep the pistol and rifle two separate entities – so you could not swap out parts from one to another? (More $ in parts sales.)

        David H.

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          David H,

          I think the Marauder rifle receiver is entirely too big for a pistol. Like a Winchester model 70 could never be turned into a practical handgun.

          B.B.

    • A.R. Tinkerer Says:

      On one of the forums someone showed a comparison of the two magazines. They also made a rifle magazine fit the pistol by filing the bottom.

      I think Crosman was smart in making the pistol magazine only 8 shots though. A 10 shot magazine stands higher above the breech obstructing valuable air space for a pistol scope or sights.

      AR

  • EJBahnsen Says:

    I have a RWS 34 and get great groups with domed and flat but not pointed. Tried 7 brands of pointed. no luck. Technigue, pellets or shooter?

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      EJBahnsen,

      Pointed pellets just don’t seem to be as accurate as domes. I know of no pointed pellet that can keep up with the best domes, which is why I seldom test with them. So your experience is entirely normal.

      B.B.

      • Fred PRoNJ Says:

        EJ,

        I second BB’s comments – never got as good accuracy with ANY pointed pellet – Crosman or RWS or Beeman. Domed pellets and the RWS Super H produce the best results in all my rifles. The pointed ones, if you get them cheap, are good for running through a Chrony or doing other testing where accuracy is not the issue.

        FRed PRoNJ

  • Vince Says:

    EJ, you’re not terribly alone in that. More than a few shooters have noticed that pointed pellets, for some reason, just don’t seem to cut it. A while back I tried some Crosman Premier pointed and couldn’t consistently hit a 55 gal bucket at 60 yards – with guns that would consistently hit a soda can at that range while shooting Crosman Premier domed.

    Oddly enough, the (relatively) cheap Crosman ‘Fied Hunting’ pellets – not even a member of the Premier line – actually shoots pretty well in some guns. But it’s not a ‘classic’ pointed, it’s more like a domed pellet with an elongated nose.

    • BG_Farmer Says:

      Vince,
      The field hunting “points” are a mystery: not pointed and not premier, but they seem to work well for me at long (for airgun) ranges, ignoring the midgets in every can. I wonder if the design is just so dependent on velocity or perfect fit or something else that Crosman didn’t think it would be consistent in the majority of rifles, so they just made it “field” grade and don’t bother to screen it as carefully and sell as premier. If you have gun that shoots them, they are hard to beat past 35 yards, and the price is unmatched. I buy a couple of cartons of them every year for plinking past 50 yards — where the domed pellets seem to lose steam quickly.

      On the other hand, the premier pointed pellets don’t seem to shoot very well for anybody, so I don’t know what is going on :).

  • John r Says:

    Kevin
    Thanks for the info I don’t have the mounts yet but I will machine them as needed. I found some gamo competition pellets and managed to shoot 7 shot 7/8″ group. The first 2 were 1/2″ so like you said the less shots the smaller the group.Now I know that’s not great, but its smaller than the 2″ group I started with

  • John r Says:

    I left out 10 yd off hand.

  • Flobert Says:

    I want this gun!

    Sigh. I may have to get back to my experiments with shooting .22 pellets out of my Ruber MkII powered by a primer-only .22 LR case. The only “bug” with this is, it’s not easy wiggling those .22 rounds apart.

  • twotalon Says:

    What Vince said.
    Domed and round nose almost always shoot the best, provided they fit the barrel right.

    I think the main problem is that with a pointed or many flat nose or hollow points if the pellet wobbles the least bit it causes air pressure to spill non-uniformly over one side of the pellet. This causes the nose of the pellet to plane, and at the same time causes a non uniform air flow over the skirt at the same time and causes drag to pull the skirt in the wrong direction to keep the pellet flying straight. The drag on the skirt is supposed to keep the pellet orientation straight , but it can’t do it if the air flow over it is wrong.
    Once it starts to wobble it can’t self correct and only gets worse with distance.

    Once in a while you will hear about someone who claims best accuracy with a pointed pellet, but I suspect that the other pellets that they tried had a very bad fit or were wrong for the velocity range.

    twotalon

    • Vince Says:

      The funny thing about THAT is that I’ve had extremely good luck with Crosman Premier Hollow Points. In many of my guns they shot as well at 60 yards as did the boxed Premiers. Now I don’t have the precision to say that 1/4″ at that distance really means anything. But 1″ does. And the Premier HP’s turned out to be the cat’s meow.

      Interesting thing about those… very consistently the pellet would leave a round smudge on the paper from where the nose hit. With the Premier HP’s (especially in .22), I’d also see a little round circle in the middle of that smudge. Not a round oval. A circle. That circle came from the hollow nose of the pellet (where there’s no lead to hit the paper), and demonstrated that the pellets were still pointing in the right direction! Not much, if any, tumbling or wobbling.

      • twotalon Says:

        Sometimes they shoot pretty good and sometimes they don’t.
        The cphp is domed with a relatively small hollow point. Yes, they do tend to clip out a tiny hole where the hollow point hit. Makes measuring group sizes easier than with many other pellets.

        Such a small hollow point on a domed pellet is not going to cause as much trouble as a large hollow point on a different shaped nose.
        It takes a lot of tilt on a pellet to see an elongated hole in a target. The worst I have seen so far are crow magnums. Oval shaped holes that show rifling marks in the smudge on the target that was made as the skirt smacked it at a severe angle. I would guess that these pellets were flying at least 30 degrees off axis.

        One thing I have found about cphp…they are not very consistent in size from tin to tin. You might get a pretty good tin, and the next may suck due to a considerable different size in pellets. Some tins can be fairly consistent in size, but will be noticeably different in size from the next tin. Then there are tins that seem like mixed sizes. You get the right tin and they do ok, but you get the wrong tin…..

        twotalon

        • Lloyd Says:

          I always picture this like the nice rounded nose of a submarine. Although a submarine doesn’t spin, the front end is very rounded which creates a low pressure area at the front, causing less turbulence and allows easier control from the rudder and propeller at the rear. Pellets are a little like that: slow moving with the direction controlled somewhat from the rear by the skirt drag. Any eccentricity of a pointed front would be amplified much more than a rounded front.
          With crow mags being so long, I would have to think that the spin rate is marginal in keeping them stable.
          Lloyd

          • twotalon Says:

            I don’t think the pressure would be lower on the front. I think it would be higher from direct resistance to travel.
            Once the water (or air) gets by this obstacle it slides past the sides and causes a low pressure area at the rear.

            twotalon

            • Lloyd Says:

              Twotallon,
              Yes, I should have said lower velocity immediately at the front, not pressure. There are some nice diagrams of the pressure gradients and velocity gradients past a round nose of a submarine here. (All the graphics take a little time to download.)
              http://teacher.buet.ac.bd/mmkarim/jst.pdf
              11a and b show the lower velocity at the nose and 7a and b show the higher pressure.
              Maybe not terribly applicable, but interesting.

              I certainly agree about the pointed vs domed for accuracy. I have plenty of almost-full tins of pointed pellets collecting dust after performing poorly.
              Lloyd

  • Jane Hansen Says:

    B.B.
    I’m always reading, just can’t always keep up with the broad range of topics the group gets into.

    For me, I’m looking for a pest-eliminator/hunter that is easier to handle than a full-size rifle. Sometimes, in the front yard, the garage, out by the shed, or at the campgrounds, carrying a large rifle is just not proper. It’s not good for tight spaces, it attracts too much attention, etc. I just want something less conspicuous.
    That said, build quality and reliability, a fair amount of power, quietness, and shot-to-shot consistency are paramount. Tack-driver accuracy becomes less critical, as these are close-range applications. Less important also is total shot count per charge. One full clip of consistent, good-power shots would be great.

    Now, at the other end of the spectrum, I do have a desire to upgrade from my Infinity, which has been discontinued, has some mechanical issues, and no parts availibility. I’ll also be watching for reviews on these new Evanix offerings we’ve been seeign.

  • twotalon Says:

    A note on sorting Crosman cphp and field hunting pellets.

    I tried using a go-no go test to check head size on both kinds to see what the results would be with my 853.

    I used the muzzle of my Marksman 0035 as the guage. If the pellet’s head did not fall into the bore, then the pellet was accepted. If it fell in it was rejected.

    Some tins were more consistent than others in the number of rejects.

    The accepted pellets shot into one tiny hole , while the rejects strained to keep a group small enough to stay on a beer can. That’s in my living room!!!! And with a choked LW barrel!!!

    Also, I have found that when a pellet loads noticeably easier than the average then it will shoot poorly. I shoot these into the ground and load another. A pellet that fits a bit tighter than the average will not usually shoot much different than the average size.

    twotalon

    • BG_Farmer Says:

      That is a good experiment. The pee-wees are wild — I think they go too fast. If you have the capability, would you mind weighing some of the rejects for the field hunting pellets — my guess is that they weigh a good part of full grain under the rest? Just a guess, but I bet its significant.

      • twotalon Says:

        I would have to scrounge around and see if I have a tin of unlubed ones somewhere. I also had the same problem with the cphp. I know I have some of them that are unlubed.
        If all else fails, I can check a bunch of cphp for the go-nogo test then weigh each category . Hope I have a tin that has a bunch of rejects…otherwise it might take some time to sort through enough to get a good sampling on both sides of the fence.

        I think the difference in size is probably the largest contributing factor….resulting in a loose fit. More of a thing about the pellet flopping around in the bore than a difference in velocity. Of course if the pellet is smaller then it should also be lighter.

        Will look around.

        twotalon

  • DaveUK Says:

    Slinging lead:
    Sorry of topic a bit but in relation to the ‘Bullpup’ design discussion.
    This article is about the British SA80 Bullpup assault rifle written in 2002.
    I understand things are better now but what an absolute farce none the less.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/oct/10/military.jamesmeek
    DaveUK

  • twotalon Says:

    B.B.

    The blog has stopped threading right. It stopped indenting responses.

    twotalon

  • Jane Hansen Says:

    Pointed vs domed…
    Lots of good comments –
    Here’s a thought, the most “aerodynamic shape” – a teardrop. A drop of falling water naturally assumes the lowest-resistance shape for forward motion. The rounded, dome-head is best.
    I don’t know any submarine engineers, but I suspect they know this..

    Computational fluid dynamics has revealed that hollow-points mimic this shape by trapping a small blob of high-pressure air right at the tip, essentially filling the hole.
    Pointed tips are a challenge – for all of the reasons stated by others.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Everyone!

    I have just been contacted by the seller of a Western Haig cap-firing BB pistol on Ebay.

    There is less than a day, so act quick.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Western-Haig-Pistol-Rare-/190479037232?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c596f7330#ht_500wt_1138

    B.B.

    • J-F Says:

      If only they shipped to Canada…
      Stupid laws always getting in the way of me spending my money and having fun.

      JF

      • Chuck Says:

        J-F,
        Count your blessings. The rest of us are eating cat food to make it to the next paycheck because of this @#$%^ hobby/sport!

  • Fred PRoNJ Says:

    Kevin and Wayne,

    because you two are such wonderful people, I disassembled my Diana Model 5V. Really, I looked very closely and saw that the screws on the handle did show signs of having been removed so I figured what the hell. Anyway, other than the marking “Made in Germany” in English at the rear of the receiver, on the right side, there was no other marking on the gun. The trigger assembly shell is spot welded onto the receiver. Trigger is a single stage with a long, spring loaded lever behind the trigger that snaps up to hold the piston when the gun is cocked via the barrel. The main spring itself is about 2″ long. Other than that, nothing.The only other thing left to remove is the end cap but I doubt anything is under that.

    Questions?

    Fred PRoNJ

    • kevin Says:

      FredPRoNJ,

      That’s very interesting. Appreciate the second effort. Wonderful pistol. Are you going to keep it?

      kevin

      • Fred PRoNJ Says:

        Kevin, correction – that “Made in Germany” is on the LEFT side of the receiver! The rest of the story is that when I removed the handle, a small pin from the trigger group, used to hold the trigger guard in place, fell out. I thought not only this pin but a small spring that loaded the trigger fell out. We found the pin but not the spring (my wife insisted on helping). Even resorted to dragging a huge magnet around the floor of the room I sit in. She finally went to prepare dinner and as I looked at he gun, I realized there was no spring missing!

        I told her I found the spring and that it had fallen into another part of the gun. It seemed the easier thing to do than tell her we spent an hour for nothing looking for a non-existant spring. You think that was the right move?

        Fred PRoNJ

        • kevin Says:

          Fred,

          It was the right move if you wanted to be able to eat what she cooked that night.

          kevin

          • Edith Gaylord Says:

            That trick works but only if you have a fantastic memory and can remember what you did/didn’t say. If, at some point in the future, you forget that you told her a fib and then reminisce/joke about how both of you looked for a spring that wasn’t missing, she will recall the fib and you will not hear the end of it. I’m sure B.B. can relate many such instances. Been there, done that :-)

            Edith

  • twotalon Says:

    BG_F

    Checked a bunch of cphp (.177) that were not lubed . Could not find any too small to pass the go-no go size test, so that was a bust. Only the one tin…really about 1/4 tin…was not lubed. Did not want to check lubed pellets.

    Found about 1/2 tin of pointeds. Must have sorted them before because they were pretty much the same size. Just barely passed (most of them).
    Weighed two dozen of each batch…the ones that seemed a bit larger or smaller….and came up with an average. Best were 7.459gr average. Loosest were 7.438gr average. I did not find any extreme size differences (head size) so must have sorted them before. I would have to find a tin that has more extreme differences in size to get a better idea what weight differences I should accept or reject.

    Problem with weight differences though….
    Let’s say the difference in weight is due to the difference in the length of the pellet…not the head size. That would bust the sort by weight theory for pellet fit.

    I weighed pellets for a while, but gave up on it. I am not going to sort by head size with a caliper either. Too much work.
    If I was shooting competition I would go to the trouble….probably. However, i would rather just shoot out a pellet that loads a little too easy and load another . I know what feels about right for fit. That’s what I go by.

    Let’s say I was rejecting too many pellets for poor fit. Then I might set the caliper and sort them. Use the smaller heads for plinking if a lot of accuracy is not required.
    Pellets that seem to load a little tighter than normal usually shoot pretty good, so I don’t worry about them too much.

    twotalon

    • BG_Farmer Says:

      TT,
      Your result was out of order (either I or the blog is out of time stream:)), so I didn’t see it until now. That difference must be a tin that was already sorted as you say — they probably aren’t that close in a real tin. I wouldn’t weigh them, either, and in fact do just shoot away the peewees, but was curious. You’re right about the size being more important than the weight. Too bad, I’ve got the pellets, but no scale that would measure that small a difference :).

      • twotalon Says:

        BG_F
        Things have been posting out of order for me all day. Threads are impossible to follow.
        Looks like posts are being inserted at random.

        Wish I had a tin of .177 with a wide variation in head size on hand. Most of my better stuff does not need sorting in any way.
        Wish I had not thrown away the pile of rejects I had. Nearly 1/2 of one tin was horrible.

        I have gone mostly to exacts and H&N for my shooting . I have not run across anything really bad with them. Not as convenient as a quick trip to Wallyworld for cphp, but far fewer problems.

        twotalon

      • twotalon Says:

        I should mention…
        My scale is not that accurate. I weighed the pellets four at a time until I had weighed two dozen. Added it up and took the average. The 3 digit decimal precision was just a three digit roundoff of what the calculation turned up.

        twotalon

        • BG_Farmer Says:

          TT,
          Thanks for going to the trouble, anyway. If you get really bored, I can send you some unsorted ones. Its weird that the pellet with the highest BC of any that I know of (the field points) is sold in inconsistent batches at cut rate prices.

          • twotalon Says:

            BG_F

            Hope this posts in the right place…
            I looked in chairgun and they list the .177 crosman pointeds as having the next to worst BC of the crosman pellets.
            On the other hand they list the .22 pointed as having a better BC than the domed cp.

            Can’t figure that one out.

            The .177 points that I weighed all were pretty light. The cphp were not weighed, but had a much larger head size. A lot of inconsistency can show up in their tinned pellets.

            I tried weighing .22cp (box) before. Even those sorted into 5 or 6 piles….going by .1 grain increments. Never attempted testing for head sizes.
            The best I ever came up with was 4 tins of .22 Kodiak. I weighed a dozen or so from each tin and gave up on it. They all weighed the same thing. Never saw that happen before. Will probably never see it again either.

            I tried the head size sorting in the first place because my 853 was very touchy about pellets. At the time I was using Wally world stuff and had not gotten into the better pellets on the market.
            You would think that a choked barrel would make up for inconsistent pellet size, but it does not. The pellet has to be fitting well BEFORE it gets to the choke. I think that a loose pellet must be rattling around in the barrel and hits the choke at an angle, deforming the pellet slightly. There is probably some deformity to the skirt when the pellet is travelling down the barrel crooked too. A choke does not fix a deformed skirt. Then you end up with a beat up pellet with a deformed skirt that is not going to break free cleanly at the muzzle.
            It just seems that the pellet must fit snug enough to be straight with the bore right from the start.
            Then you have to worry about if the rifle likes the pellet . There could be a lot of reasons why a rifle does not like a pellet that fits good when seated. That’s when you really start pulling out your hair and inventing new swear words.

            I have only been interested in what pellets to use in just a few rifles…..the ones I use most for hunting. They have to shoot well, but pellet usage is usually pretty low with these except during sighting in or tuning periods. Pellet expense is not a big issue here. Try a selection, choose the best, lay in a good stock.

            The plinkers usually just get whatever works fairly well. I don’t even worry about the ones that are very seldom used.

            I do plink with my better shooters at times, but do not go through any great number of pellets.

            Oh,yeah…
            Digital jewelry scales can be found on e-bay pretty cheap. Need to resolve to at least .1gr accuracy. I think mine cost about $20. Unless you shoot competition or want to check your cast ML balls for consistency then it is probably a waste of time and money. Spend the bucks on some good ammo.

            twotalon

            • BG_Farmer Says:

              TT,
              Chairgun died with the rest of this computer when I had to re-install windows, and I haven’t put it back yet. However, a search yielded BC of 0.177 “Crosman Copperhead Points” = 0.028, which is what I remember from Chairgun and agrees with the kind of results I get. Copperhead is the name for the low line pellets that Crosman sells, but it is used irregularly, and I haven’t seen it on the actual packaging for some while; I’m certain they are the same as the “Field Hunting Points”. If they didn’t work, I wouldn’t use them or bother with their inconsistency, but they maintain velocity noticeably better at long ranges than many other pellets. JSB exacts would be OK, but it seems like a waste to shoot them at cans, and they didn’t have nearly as much energy left at 75 yards or so, either, if I remember correctly.

            • BG_Farmer Says:

              Actually, it was “Crosman Copperhead Pointeds” — here’s the link:
              http://www.photosbykev.com/wordpress/userfiles/pelletdata.htm

              • twotalon Says:

                BG_F
                It really does not matter much if you are plinking larger targets anyway.
                In the spring before the crops come up, I like to plink rocks in the bare fields. Sometimes put a small cat food can out there a ways and bounce it a little farther with each shot. Of course there is always a little cross wind, so I get to shoot at different ranges and under different conditions all the time doing this. Lots of fun.
                There is a chert bed running through three fields on the farm where I do my shooting. The white fragments are easy to see . I like it best when it’s dry enough that I can see the dust kick up if I miss. Most hits cause the ricochet sound, while a dirt strike does not.
                Later come the walnuts and large weeds that take multiple shots to take down. Takes several shots in a line to knock down a big poke weed.
                There is always driveway gravel and late summer grasshoppers.

                Improvise, improvise, improvise.

                twotalon

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          twotalon,

          Weighing four pellets at one time cancels any variations you might have been able to find. You need to weigh them one at a time to see the vast differences in weight.

          B.B.

          • twotalon Says:

            That was not the object.
            I was comparing the average weight between two piles of pellets that were a slightly different head size.

            twotalon

            • B.B. Pelletier Says:

              twotalon,

              I understand. But by lumping them together like that, the heavier ones will cancel the lighter ones.

              B.B.

  • kevin Says:

    John R,

    Tis the season.

    Once you get your scope locked down on your FWB 124 either by modifying that new base or replacing it with BKL’s I have a pellet gift for you. First, you must confirm that your scope is locked down by shooting multiple 10 shot groups at 20 yards rested with your guns favorite pellet (please tell me what your most accurate pellet is at 20 yards when you verify that your scope isn’t moving).

    Once you’ve accomplished this mission, should you decide to accept it, email me at klentz4 “at” comcast.net with your shipping address and your gift will shortly be on its’ way. Hopefully this comment will self destruct in 20 seconds.

    kevin

  • kevin Says:

    John R,

    Tis the season.

    Once you get your scope locked down on your FWB 124 either by modifying that new base or replacing it with BKL’s I have a pellet gift for you. First, you must confirm that your scope is locked down by shooting multiple 10 shot groups at 20 yards rested with your guns favorite pellet (please tell me what your most accurate pellet is at 20 yards when you verify that your scope isn’t moving).

    Once you’ve accomplished this mission, should you decide to accept it, email me at klentz4 “at” comcast.net with your shipping address and your gift will shortly be on its’ way. Hopefully this comment will self destruct in 20 seconds.

    kevin

  • kevin Says:

    Wow, there is something wrong with the feed. Look at the date stamps on the last 10 comments.

  • John r Says:

    Kevin
    Thanks for the offer.I have a lead sled, but what is the proper way to rest an airgun?

    • kevin Says:

      John R,

      Re: “What is the proper way to rest a gun?”

      You’ve asked a question that I’m still learning the answer to.

      I’ll share a few things that I’ve learned. First, in general, a spring gun requires a more refined hold technique than any other airgun or firearm that I’ve ever shot in order to wring out every drop of potential accuracy. Second, in general, the more powerful the spring gun is the more technique it requires especially if the gun hasn’t been tuned. Third, every gun is different. Don’t be afraid to experiment with different holds for different guns.

      Off hand a loose hold usually works the best. B.B. was a pioneer in discovering this technique and coined the term “Artillery Hold” to describe it. There’s a lot of great information about the Artillery Hold on this site. If you use the search box you’ll be amazed at what is archived.

      When I’m shooting off a bench I try to replicate the loose offhand hold. I’ve never used a lead sled or gun vise type device while shooting springers off a bench. I like to use a front bag and place my open hand between the bag and the gun before pulling the trigger. I’ve also had success laying the gun directly on the rest IF there’s something slick between the bag and gun. A slick mouse pad works well and so does silk. This allows the gun to move easily through the shot cycle. I never use a rear bag for shooting springers. Since I’m right handed I prefer to rest the forearm of the gun and use my left hand to cradle the bottom of the buttstock with the butt of the gun ever so slightly touching my shoulder. You’ll have to experiment with your gun to find where on the forearm it likes to be rested. Many of mine like the rest to be close to the trigger guard without touching the trigger guard.

      The front bag can be something as simple as a rolled up towel or pillow folded in half. Caldwell and shooters ridge both make good front bags and the monkey bag that PA carries is good too. Just remember to put something slick between the bag and the gun.

      kevin

      • kevin Says:

        John R,

        One last thing. When I’m shooting off a bench it’s usually to determine the guns best accuracy with given pellets. In other words, shooting multiple types of pellets to find out which the gun likes best. In a magnum springer, like the FWB 124, I usually test domed pellets only for longer distances. When shooting for accuracy (not plinking) I’m sure you’re familiar with the old cliche, “Aim small, miss small”. I like to use targets with a 1/4″ circle for my aim point. A pellet hole in the target is a good aim point too.

        kevin

        • Fred PRoNJ Says:

          Kevin and all,

          I’ve started to use a slightly different hold on my rifles when shooting. I now rest the stock on the back of my forearm (the muscle part) in a similar manner to Field Target shooters. I find I don’t get the shake or wavering affect I encounter when supporting the rifle in my open palm with my elbow resting on the table or whatever I’m shooting off of. For me, it’s much more stable and still allows the rifle to recoil as it prefers. Cuts down on that one pellet that really messes up the great group you’re working!

          Kevin as for keeping the Model 5V, for now I will but in a year ……….?

          Fred PRoNJ

  • John r Says:

    Question
    If a nitro piston goes bad can you replace it and how costly?

    • twotalon Says:

      John r…
      Depends on the model and manufacturer.

      To replace them yourself (if you can get them) you will need a spring compressor.

      twotalon

    • Mr B. Says:

      John r,

      B.B. has a Beeman that has a gas piston in it that he’s had for 10 years without any issues. A call to PA at their customer service number will get you an idea of the replacement cost of a Nitro Piston. If my memory is working today PA won’t sell just the piston. They also install it.

      Give them a call and please get back to us and let us know what they charge.

      Bruce

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Top-notch springer
Air Arms TX200 air rifle

When it comes to spring-piston air rifles, the Air Arms TX200 Mk III is a favorite of many airgunners, including airgun writer Tom Gaylord. His favorite caliber is .177. While the gun will initially impress you with its beauty and superior craftsmanship, you'll be even more impressed with the incredible accuracy! Tom claims this is "the most accurate spring gun below $3,000." Beech or walnut, left-hand or right-hand stock. Isn't it time you got yours?

All the fun, none of the hassles!
Uzi CO2 BB submachine gun

You've seen tons of movies with guys spraying bullets from their Uzi submachine guns and probably thought it would be a blast. Except for the cost of ammo! You can have all that fun with this Uzi BB submachine gun at just pennies a round. Throw shots downrange for hours on end with all the fun, none of the firearm hassles and a fraction of the cost.

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