by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
The new BB Gage looks like a Pelletgage, and operates in a similar way. Photo provided by Pelletgage.com.
This report covers:
- Start with the best
- The test
- 4.42mm
- 4.43mm
- 4.44mm
- Results so far
- Mixed BBs
- Conclusions
I know there is a lot of interest in today’s subject, because readers have been talking about it since the first part was published. Today we are going to conduct the first test to see if gaging BBs makes any difference in their accuracy.
Start with the best
Naturally I chose the most accurate BB gun for today’s test. The Daisy Avanti 449 BB gun has no equal, as far as accuracy goes. Several readers are talking about the velocity of the 499 and how to increase it. Mine launches BBs at around 250 f.p.s., and that velocity is perfect for what the gun does. I would not tear into a gun that is shooting as accurately as this one does.
I gaged the special BBs it shoots — Daisy’s Avanti Precision Ground Shot. I did that in Part 1 of this report, so you might read that before you read today’s report. That’s what today’s test is all about.
The test
I decided to shoot 5-shot groups today, because the 499 makes such small groups that I was hoping to see accuracy differences if there weren’t too many holes in the target. Also I find holding steady for 10 shots per group tends to tire me and might make a difference at the end of the test.
The 499 was rested on the UTG Monopod, which was steady, but did require a lot of concentration. I sat 5 meters from the target (that’s the muzzle of the BB gun at 5 meters, for those who wonder) and took as much care as I could muster for every shot. Let’s look at the results.
4.42mm
The first group was shot with Precision Ground Shot that gaged 4.42mm in Part 1 of this report. Five BBs went into 0.359-inches at 5 meters. Normally that would be all I would report about a group, but today I’m shooting a target gun, so let’s look at where those BBs hit. Only one of them appears to have hit the 10-ring. While there appear to be only three holes in the target, the two holes that are in the 9-ring (one at 1 o’clock and the other at 9 o’clock) each appear larger than a single BB. I think that is where the other two BBs went. So out of 50 points, these 5 BBs gave me a score of 46. That will become important in a moment.
Five Avanti Precision Ground Shot gaged 4.42mm went in to 0.359-inches at 5 meters, for a score of 46/50.
4.43mm
The next BBs I shot were gaged at 4.43mm Five of them passed through a group that measures 0.226-inches between centers at 5 meters. This is clearly a smaller group than the one before. I’m not saying it proves anything positively, but if I was a BB-gun competitor, a result like this would definitely catch my attention!
However, there is more. Notice where the group is. At least 4 of 5 BBs have hit the 10-ring! This target demonstrates why we only shoot one shot at each target in competition. I will concede that one BB is a 9, so this is a score of 49/50. The score isn’t as important as the fact that the point of impact changed. That’s what a competitor pays attention to.
Five Avanti Precision Ground Shot gaged 4.43mm went in to 0.226-inches at 5 meters, for a score of 49/50.
4.44mm
Next up were five Avanti Precision Ground Shot that gaged 4.44mm. They made a group that measured 0.30-inches between centers at 5 meters. This group appears larger than it really is, because I peeled back the target paper to reveal the holes more clearly. I scored this one as four 10s and one 9, also. The POI is almost in the same location as that of the 4.43mm BBs.
Five Avanti Precision Ground Shot gaged 4.44mm went in to 0.30-inches at 5 meters, for a score of 49/50. This group appears larger than it is, because the target paper was peeled back to expose the holes for photography.
Results so far
I want to stress that this one little test tells us nothing conclusive. At best it only indicates what might be true. More testing is needed. But from what I have seen so far, gaging BBs does have some impact on their accuracy. If I were a coach of a team, I would be gaging my BBs for each gun! And every shooter at the Nationals uses the Avanti shot. Anything else gets weeded out in the local and regional matches.
Mixed BBs
The next test will perhaps tell us even more. This time I’m going to mix the BBs by size and see how that affects accuracy. I’m taking 2 BBs that gaged larger than 4.44mm, one that gaged 4.41mm, one that gaged 4.42mm and one that gaged 4.43mm. That represents shooting BBs straight from the box without regard to their size.
These 5 BBs went into a group that measures 0.252-inches at 5 meters. That is the second-smallest group of the session. That wasn’t expected, but before you throw up your hands in frustration, look at where these BBs went. At least 2 of them landed in the 9-ring, for a score of 48/50. That’s still better than what the 4.42mm BBs did, but looking at the shape of this group tells me there are too many surprises buried in these odd-sized BBs.
The 5 odd-sized BBs made a 0.252-inch group at 5 meters, but several BBs did rise above the 10-ring.
Conclusions
I said at the start that today’s test is not conclusive. But it does give me hope that gaging BBs will pay off.
This also demonstrates that the casual shooter doesn’t need to gage his BBs to shoot good groups with the Daisy 499. Most shooters would be very pleased with any of these targets.
I think coaches need to get a BB gage and start testing BB sizes to each of their guns right away. No one wants to give up the possibility of even one point in a match! If all this does is make your shooters more confident from knowing they have an edge — it’s worth the price.
I would agree with your conclusions BB, even if sorting doesn’t really help, “The Placebo Effect” does wonders!
“demonstrates that the casual shooter doesn’t need to gage his BBs to shoot good groups with Daisy 499!” That’s the key to the target door? I don’t have a 499 as much have I wanted one!! I do shoot BB Guns, rifles and pistols for entertainment! But! I am competitive at everything I do! I have had a problem with 8 out 9 in the 10 and one flyer, I’ll say flyer because it was a half to one inch off each time! I have had 8 out 8 in the same hole or enough you couldn’t tell it was more than one hole! Close inspection will reveal a larger hole! I did get rid of all copper BBs and have shot the Zinc coated and still have competitive results! I rolled the BBs down different BB magazines made for co2 guns and the ones that rolled through the mag I Dumped and got better results with the one’s that didn’t drop through the port of the magazines. I’m not bragging on my shooting!! I’m too old for that to lie and mostly shoot with a scope, but I can shoot with open sights! If you new me? You would know that I would work extra hard day and night till I overcame the flyers!! I guess I’m ready for the BB gage? But! I am just a casual shooter in the BB Gun world! Semper Fi!
LOL! A few years ago I was ordering pellets for my FWB 601 and my Izzy 46M, which at the time were my only airguns. I was ordering RWS R10 Match pellets. The guy asked me what I was doing with those particular pellets and I told him I was plinking, where upon he informed me there were cheaper pellets that would do just fine for such. I then told him that I was very serious about my plinking.
J. Lee,
Okay, add “focused shooters” to the list of those who need the gage.
Nothing wrong with being right!
B.B.
Thats a good point, the concrete knowledge of these bbs are THIS diameter, every single one, or these pellets, or these are this weight.. taking every variable out not only means your already putting the effort into your shot, but when it comes time to pull the trigger your sure not going to waste all that time and rush the shot. Knowing its going to be a good shot if you relax, let it do what its supposed to and take the same care to send it as you did to load it. Now to actually get some time to sort and shoot. I might have to spend a little effort sorting the eunjins tonight, I have the rodder set for max energy for a little satisfying of the curiosity, 950 fps with the 16.1grains. Im planning to get the 22 parts for it, a medium weight hollowpoint 22 pellet about 14-16 grains going 950 should put a little more water in my first inch of clay, if you know what I mean… something about 22 caliber, I cant help it, but never having been able to get it to do as described above, it always bummed me out. Getting your teeth rattled for 800 fps and 2″ 20 yard groups… ( insert “I told you so’s here- _____ lol) that is a little harsh though, the impact shoots good, some others did alright, but good and alright are just that.
Good article and thanks for the chrony info. on your 499. Mine was 209 bone stock with only about 750 Avantis sent through it. It’s still on it’s first tub. (It would be most interesting to see what other 499’s are doing). And as you and others have said, anything to boost confidence is a good thing. The way I look it at, if I can eliminate even 1 variable, then that is a very good thing. Of course, the more I eliminate, the more it boils down to me and what I am (not) doing when results are less than stellar.
As for testing the bb gage further, I suppose choose another rifle not as well known for accuracy as the 499 and see what other sorted bb’s would do there. No doubt, a time consuming task and opening up the door for even more questions and interpretations. As the bb gage hits the market more and more, I look forward to what other’s results are. PA’s customer reviews would also be a place to keep an eye on if interested. Cool test.
Chris,
Okay, I will think about a second test to do.
B.B.
B.B.,
Do you think a decently accurate, such as a Model 25, or a less accurate gun, such as a Red Ryder, would be appropriate?
(By the way, I am LOVING your tests of this BB Gage!)
Michael
Michael,
I really don’t know at this point. By the way, I have shot Daisy pump guns that are less accurate than Red Ryders, so their accuracy isn’t a given.
I suppose I will have to test them.
B.B.
B.B.,
I read your mention of the 880 below, that strikes me as a good choice as you could experiment with velocities if you were so inclined.
However, at the moment the thought of shooting a pumper makes me wince. I strained my back pulling huge coolers full of beer out of car trunks on Christmas Eve, and it still hurts as though a mule kicked me.
Michael
Michael
B.B.,
Yea,…that is really a tuff call. I read all 50 comments and there is some good stuff there. The more I thought about it, the more I think the test might have a flaw in it. What? You chose the best bb’s and best bb gun on the market. (I would have done the exact same thing). What if there is little to be gained with the 499? What if,…. it is already that good?
What would I choose? No clue. I do not know bb rifles well enough to even try. To me, multi-pumps would not be my first choice, unless you stick with a fixed # of pumps. The extended range idea is interesting. Not a bunch, just 5, or 2, or 3 more meters. Think of it as putting the groups under a magnifying glass, except that you are not trying for 10’s. You are trying for the tightest group, period, regardless of placement. The extra range will amplify that, making the differences easier to see. You can always adjust sights for placement.
The real benefit to the bb gage may just lie in it’s ability to turn a normal 2″ group from an average bb rifle into a 1″ group.
Just some thoughts, and good luck if you proceed. Chris
Chris USA
I always say to test a gun for accuracy out at farther distances.
If you get a gun that groups good out at farther distances. Then you should be real happy with the gun in at closer distances.
Chris,
I chronied my 499 years ago, with Avanti Precision Ground Shot, and I recall the average was around 220 fps. Then again, I have never oiled it, and I know I should, so it is perhaps capable of a slight bump in velocity.
Michael
Michael,
Thanks for the results. There is no place to oil one. I tore mine down and cleaned the cylinder and coated the seal/piston with RWS chamber oil. Went from 209 to 255. For a no tear down, you could pull the barrel and use a long tube or something to get oil in the cylinder. That should do the same thing. The final put together used a liberal dose of Pellgun oil. I think the RWS is better, but did not want to waste any of the small bottle. The seal/piston, which are one in the same, is plastic. So really, no lube needed, but it did boost the fps. Thanks again, Chris
Chris,
Even if the piston seal is plastic, a good lube will decrease wear and increase life. Also, the fact that the 499’s performance improved shows the lube was a good thing, don’t you think?
How complicated/difficult is it to remove the barrel on the 499?
Michael
Michael,
You just unscrew what is the muzzle cap. Below that is what appears to be a coupler nut and below that, the barrel. All 3 come out as 1 piece.
But yes, I agree. It has a modified TX200 seal behind the stock 499 piston/seal now. That dropped it to 219. I will shoot it this way for awhile and see if it breaks in.
I am not sure on the accuracy as I tried many different things all pretty close together. At 255, the rifle did seem to be more hold/rest sensitive. Now at 219, we’ll see.
For all of you guys who keep wanting to boost the velocities of everything you get your hands on:
“What good is 500+FPE if you can’t hit what you are shooting at?”
Boosting the velocity and/or power of an accurate airgun does not always translate to accuracy at farther distances. More often than not you lose accuracy at all ranges. Those of you who reload ammunition already know this.
The trick is to find what works for that particular air rifle or pistol. That is what BB was saying about coaches using the gage and seeing what worked best for each gun.
RidgeRunner,
The desire for more velocity for no apparent practical reason ought to be known as the Tim Allen Effect: “[Grunt] More power!”
Michael
RR
The most important part of your comment about (horsepower) tuning is what can you do with all that power if you can’t hit what your aiming at.
And maybe you don’t remember but I have tuned my guns down in power as well as up in power. My Tx had factory tune, low power tune, then tuned up for more power which is the way I had it till the week before Christmas. It’s now back to my smooth tune I call it with a little less velocity than factory but a excellent shot cycle and exceptionally quiet shot cycle. Oh and easier to cock than the factory tune. And yes it is the most accurate tune for the Tx so fat.
And the second most important part of your comment is right also. You have to find what is right for a particular gun you have. Believe me if you think throwing a different spring in a springer and saying you did a tune on it your wrong. Way more involved; and if a person thinks that’s all you have to do their fooling theirselfs.
It takes time to find out if one thing works better than another. And yes sometimes a person should leave well enough alone. But how do you know what well enough is if you don’t try something else. 😉
Edit: Tx so far.
Not so (fat).
That was a fat finger if you know what I mean. Not my phone this time.
GF1,
All I can say is…..yup! But there is a balance, as you well know. Try and test or be happy with what you have and never know. It is a personal choice and one that does involve a little research and skill.
Chris USA
A big yes from me.
I boosted the rodder for the eunjins and I gotta say your right that enough is enough when its enough, but I know for me not owning or having the desired trigger time with powder burners, maybe we’re trying to compensate a little ;), but I’m thankfully getting insane accuracy with it from every pellet I’ve tried. Cool thing about the eunjins is I can see them fly through the scope, they’re so big and shiny. Since they’re so cheap, might have to order a couple barrels when I go to 22, would hate to lose the accuracy it has in 177. But as far as more power, I think some people are more inclined to different aspects of shooting, like buying a car, some people look at the motor for its power, some its gas mileage, some its ease of working on it. Either way, its all about whatever makes you happy. Like my friend I mentioned with the gamo BC and PBAs, he was very happy making all that noise and not hitting an old growth spruce! Who can say he’s wrong if it makes him happy?
RDNA
When I read that about your friend and his Gamo whamo super blaster pellets it reminded me of my neighbor at the old house I lived at.
He got the biggest kick out of all the noise it made. I let him shoot one of my guns one day and he was a saved air gunner is all I can say.
He was amazed that he could hit a bottle cap at 25 yards with my gun. His gun when he shot at the bottle cap looked like a shot gun blast all around the cap. He shot my gun again and hit everytime. He even looked like he was a better shot than me. But of course I didn’t tell him that. 😉
RDNA,
As the saying goes, “Whatever trips your trigger”.
I would strongly suggest that before you buy barrels of Eunjins in .22, make sure they work.
Oh yeah, im not going anywhere near the eunjins in 22, want to stay light actually, keep the trajectory down, the penetration way down. Thinking jsb 15.89, 18.whatever, and hoping to get a hollopoint to fly like they do, maybe baracuda hunters but they seem a little too hard. Any idea what is a good, soft, mid weight hollowpoint that is known for holding it together out to 50 yards? 50 is a comfortable over estimation, most shots are between 30 and 40 yards.
Personally, I would start with the JSB Exact. They make it in light, medium, heavy and super heavy. Another I might try is the Baracuda. I am using it right now with my Diana 46E and seem to be getting pretty good results. I also have good results with H&N Field Target Trophy. One air rifle of mine prefers the RWS Superdome. If all else fails, I will pull out the Crosman Premiers.
I am not going to recommend a hollow point to you because I have as of yet found one that will deliver the accuracy I require. Unless you are using a PCP, you are not likely going to experience any mushrooming. Most of those fancy pellets are like fishing lures. They are designed to catch the eye of the fisherman, not the fish.
The superdomes are actually a great suggestion, they are very soft and I had good accuracy with them ib my first np 22. Yes it will be a pcp, the rodder and pushed to 900minimum, 975 max. Premiers are sometimes great, sometimes terrible. And thats from gun to gun and tin to tin in my experience. Those are a good pellet to sort cause if they are consistent its a good pellet really, too hard though. Basically if theres a softer pellet that is designed the same, that’d be great. Looking at hn terminators, cuda hunter, jsb 15, maybe polymags. We’ll see.
I see predator polymags getting a lot of use in YT hunting vids, some pretty far out and Ted holdover seems to use them a lot. Kinda pricey though. Seen the HN hornets? Holy cow, never could justify it.
B.B.
Great test. I got my gage yesterday. I was testing same size Umarex BB’s in my 840. I found I could tighten the groups with the application of a very tiny bit if Pelgun Oill from my fingers on each BB. I found this effect to be even more pronounced when shooting lead H&N .179 BB’s from my 880 @ 2 pumps. I think the oil bonds to the BB and fills in micro blemishes and reduces fliers. I haven’t tried this on my 499 because, like you, I want it stock. I hope others will try this “Fido effect” and report their findings here. Even if you intend to shoot “dry” a coach might notice whether a competitor is accidentally getting oil on some BB’s and not others.
Fido3030
Interesting. It may also be reducing the friction between the BB and the barrel and/or “filling” the gap and reducing the amount of “bouncing around” the BB is experiencing as it is traveling down the barrel, thereby reducing variations on how it is departing the muzzle.
I think you should try it with your 499. Shoot five groups without lubrication on the BB and five with lubrication and tell us the results.
RR,
I’m leaning towards the Daisy 880 for the next test. But if the Fido effect works, would oiling BBs in compeiton be similar to a spitball in baseball?
B.B.
B.B.,
So if the Fido Effect increases accuracy, it is the Fido Effect. If it decreases accuracy, should it be referred to as the Phil Niekro Effect? ;^)
Michael
Opps. I made a mistake. Phil Threw knuckleballs, not spitballs. I did not mean to slander the HoF inductee.
Michael
That’s the Fido defect
BB,
It depends on if the rules prohibit such. Like was mentioned previously about modifying the 499. Are there rules against such? I feel certain that both of these scenarios have already been tried in competition. Some people will do anything they can to win, whether it is against the rules or not. I call it the Tom Brady Effect.
What I fail to understand is how someone can hold there head up when the only reason they won was because they cheated. Yes, I understand greed, but what if there is no financial gain? Do they really feel good about themselves? That is sad.
RidgeRunner,
Wouldn’t the Tom Brady Effect require the use of lead shot? They are softer than steel.
Michael
Michael,
That is a very good point, however I am referring to the fact that it really was not necessary to cheat to win, it is they just have to cheat.
Fido3030,
Okay, the Fido effect.
I’m thinking of testing a Daisy 880 next. Maybe I will try your idea too.
B.B.
What is the Fido Effect?
Michael
Oops. Got it now.
Michael
Ridge Runner
You may be right about the reason.
I’m not sure I’m a good enough shot to see the difference in my 499 which shoots very well! Also, there’s the subtle effect of wanting a positive result giving a positive result. This is why science depends on “peer review.” Can others get the same result from doing the same things?
If you try it, remember just a tiny bit of oil (experiment a bit) because too much produces a negative effect. Cordially,
Fido3030
Fido3030,
Sounds like you are on your way to becoming a pioneer in bb gunning! 😉 “The Fido Effect”,….. Really though, your idea HAS to reduce friction. How can it not? That should increase fps. Is that good? Maybe, maybe not. Only testing will prove that. Some chrony stuff would be good if you have one. I look forward to your test with your new bbgage. Good luck.
Chris USA
We have air flow test gauges at work.
A ball rises in a clear tube and the tube is just a little bigger inside than the ball. And only by a few thousanths of a inch.
The ball will float at different heights in the tube depending on air pressure.
Here’s the important part. The ball is always centered in the tube. It doesn’t bounce off the sides. There is a fine flow of air around the ball.
A light lubrication on the bb or in the barrel will probably help the way a bb moves down the barrel. And I bet that will make a bb fly more accurately.
GF1,
I was thinking the VERY same thing but could not remember all the details so I did not say anything.
I think a pressure reading was more the good/no good judge -VS- any height measurement though.
That was for pellets though. That would be the “ultimate” bb test,…. perhaps?
Chris USA
I mentioned the hieght only because it was a function of the gauge we have at work and how the gauge physically worked.
I was referring to the clear tube as the guns barrel. And the ball inside the clear tube as the bb. And how the ball moved inside the clear tube.
The ball always has a cushion I will call it around the sides of the ball. It never bounces off the sides as it moves up or down in the tube.
Chris USA
Here’s one to try. Maybe you have tryed this at work.
Take a small ball bearing then hold it a few inches over the nozzle of a air gun. You know the kind you blow a part off with.
Hold the air nozzle straight up though and start the air flow. Try to get the ball positioned right and increase the air flow. The ball bearing will float in mid air.
Now take the ball bearing and make a dot on the ball with a red marker or some kind of visible marker. Then do the same as above.
The ball does not spin. The dot you put on the ball will slowly move around.
What does that tell you about how the air is flowing around the ball. How about equally. The same thing is going to happen no matter what position a barrel is in if it has enough air pressure behind it to try to push by and stabilize the ball.
GF1,
Cool idea. The test I was thinking about is what some of the pro-airgunners do as part of their pellet sorting. I remember it from about a year ago. Videos and everything. It was a link I think.
It used precision id dies and used regulated compressed air with a couple of gauges. I am pretty sure is was checking aerodynamics. This was the really high end pros doing this.
Chris USA
Yep I understand what your saying about the pellet testing.
But I was trying to paint a picture basically with the air gauge we have at work. And comparing it to the barrel let’s say of a 499 and how precise the bb fits the barrel and how it moves down the barrel.
The main point is how the bb travels down the barrel.
I’m betting that’s why a 499 is so accurate compared to other bb guns. The bb fits the barrel precisely and even at the lower power level that the gun makes. The air still trys to push around the bb. So its even more of a precise cushion of air flow around the bb. It basically don’t need more velocity to do the job it was designed for.
Here’s something to think about. What do you think the velocity and accuracy of a factory 499 would be like if it had a shorter or longer barrel?
GF1,
I do not know. What are you driving at? If I were to make a Franken- bb pistol and the breech would accept the 499 barrel threads, my first pick would be a 499 barrel.
I wonder how many pistols out there would accept one? Kind of like what you do with the Condors and Talons. An exposed, unsupported barrel has it’s advantages. Weights, etc..
As for your question, just as good, if not better than any other bb pistol. As for rifles, longer barrels, I do not know.
Chris USA
Nope you didn’t understand what I mean. I’m not talking about a pistol at all.
The question is why did Daisy choose that barrel legnth for the 499? And what would it do to the 499’s performance if the bb had more barrel or less barrel to travel down.
Here is a few things to think about. A springer will tend to benefit from a shorter barrel. PCP or pump guns tends to benefit from a longer barrel. Velocity wise anyway. Not necessarily accuracy wise.
So what I was getting at. Would the 499 benefit from a longer barrel or shorter barrel than it came with from the factory. Or is the factory barrel the optimum legnth?
GF1,
I do not know. The springers I get as many barrels are actually quite short. The PCP’s I get. As for bb rifles, for the 499, they must have got something right.
I have just not studied bb rifles or pistols enough to have an opinion on what a longer or shorter would do, in theory.
Chris USA
And that’s what I was leading into.
Changing a spring or the seal in the 499 is going to change the pressure in the barrel and what trys to get around the bb.
So as the power or air pressure is increased possibly the barrel legnth change would need to be considered to keep the system balanced.
End result a accurate BB gun that could be shot out at a farther distance.
Of course once the optimum balance of the components get found.
You going to try some more things on your 499? Just wondering.
GF1,
Well,……the TX seal did drop it from 255 to 219 from 209 stock. That to me means the TX seal has some “drag”. It actually went a bit under from what I wanted. Odd that the fps did not boost, thus I figure the drag. I will try the current set-up as is for awhile. With a couple of 100 shots, it might settle in.
As for the longer barrel to match fps boost,…makes sense to me. So when you gettin’ one to play with?
The trigger is so light that it is no comparison to the original. Almost too light. That is with moly only. Rested, dead steady and you can’t miss. Oh yea, the added smaller washer at 24′ on a ring binder dot is perfect. I do not know what else to say.
See the end of today’s blog.
Chris USA
Ok going to check out today’s blog.
CHRIS USA
Of course if it doesn’t work it will be known as the “Fido Defect!” I wish I was a better/more consistent shot for testing!
Fido3030
Fido3030,
Well,…. hats off for trying something new. In my book, that is what it is all about. I will give it a try over the next several weeks with the 499. Do you have a chrony?
Fido3030,
See the end of today’s blog…….. 😉
B.B.
Some of the comments yesterday got me ruminating. People were posting about different lengths of butt stock could effect their shooting. It is my understanding that the old time outfitters would measure you and cut your new gun to fit. I’ve always have seem to shoot better with youth model rifles, maybe it is because I have a short neck. And looking at how adjustable competition rifles are, is there a formula that competitive shooters use to size up a rifle? Or is it just to comfort? Don’t worry I’m not interested in cutting up all my rifles, just curious. Thanks again,
Brad
Brad,
It’s part comfort and part ergonomics. If the shooter holds the rifle correctly (i.e. without an lot of cant or other problems) than the answer it to make him as comfortable as possible. But if the shooter has fundamental holding problems such as excessive cant or other things that depart from a good solid hold, those have to be resolved before fitting the stock.
B.B.
B.B.
Super on testing the 880. I like shooting them with lead BB’s. I’ve tried Gamo, H&N .177’s and H&N .179’s with accuracy improving in that order. The BB’s are fast to load single-shot or through the magazine which is nice for plinking or a fast follow-up shot for pest elimination.
Re-the spitball. I think you and RidgeRunner may be correct about reducing friction with the bore. Another possibility is the “shine ball” a now illegal pitch where half the ball was made smoother by rubbing it with wax. Hey–rub a BB with wax! Anybody got a wind tunnel??
If you’re looking for guns to review, another miggt be the Daisy 74. I think it’s the best “fun-gun” they ever made!
Cordially,
Fido3030
Fido, do you own a Daisy 74? I’ve been wondering about it. Hoping there would be a review on it someday. It does seem like it would be a lot more “Fun” than a Red Ryder.
Doc Holiday
I really like mine. 15 shots as fast as tou can pull the trigger, then a fast dump from the resevoir for more; 100+ shots on a CO2 and very quiet.
I shot .763 average of five consecutive 5 shot groups with Daisy Precision BB’s. If shooting for accuracy MUST allow at least a minute between shots for best groups. But that’s not what it’s made for.
Not a lot of power but I like that’s a good trade for quiet and lots of shots.
It’s the ultimate plinker. Tin cans beware!
Fido3030
Doc Holiday
I forgot to say I bushed the barrel to keep it centered as it moves back and forth for best accuracy. Not really necessary for plinking.
Fido3030
Glad that mod is catching on! Will that gun punch through a steel can at 10 yards?.. One side or both?
Steel can heavy dent in one side; aluminum can yes both sides.
Thanks! I’m between it and a 1077 for my nephews.
bb (and maybe others?)
I already have a fine walther lg55(standard)
Im offered to buy a walther lg55 tyrolean without barrellock BUT also a weihrauch hw 55 tyrolean with barrellock. Im now confused witch one to buy. I know for a fact that the lg55 is a magnificant shooter. Ive never shot a hw55 in my life.
what would you advice??
Get ’em both!
🙂
reb.
I have a WIFE!!!!!
need I say more??
Give her one.
🙂
hahahahaha 🙂
thats a good one:) 🙂 🙂
you are sharp
Dutchjozef,
People who have never had a Tyrolean stock usually want one until they try it. Then it can go either way.
My choice would be the HW55 T.
B.B.
thanks for the advise
Dutchjozef,
Ignore the barrel lock on the Weihrauch vs. none on the Walther as a factor. It’s a non issue for accuracy.
If you can shoot the guns prior to buying do it. Lots of “experiments”, like punching breeches and drilling transfer ports were common on both the HW55 and LG55 back in the day and many guns accuracy were ruined.
The other reason to shoot these guns is to see how their tyrolean stocks fit YOU. Not all Tyrolean stocks, even within the same model of Airgun, fit the same since different stock makers within the same factory churned out different fitting stocks.
Good luck.
Kevin
kevin, youve got a good point there. the stock might not fit me.
And indeed……… I cannot shoot them before I buy one. I has to be send to me by post. Im also affraid the Weihrauch will be a crude operator compared to the walther.
Im interested in the barrellock cos of the ease of cocking, not cos of the accuracy.
Ill think about it the next few days.
thanks for your input!!!
Dutchjozef,
The barrel latch on a typical HW55 (some HW55’s like the “F” don’t have a barrel latch) never bothered me. Same with the release on a HW35. Yes, it adds an additional step for preparing to fire but that extra step helps me to “get into the zone” when firing a single shot.
For what it’s worth, I think the HW55 has the best looking Tyrolean stock but the Walther Tyroleans usually fit ME better. I’ve owned lots of each model and just sold a Walther LG55 Tyrolean DST:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/thread/1451405412/last-1451430832/–%3E+Expand+Thread
kevin
kevin, I saw your double trigger lg55..
all I can say: Whooooowwww
i decided to buy an other lg55. yes the tyro.
Ive got a lot of spare parts, so having 2 lg55’s and the spare parts will keep at least one lg55 alive in my lifetime.
The lg55’s will be shooters… no museum pieces.
I might buy a hw55 in six months.
Reb
I have both. 1077 = 500 fps with Hobby, 74 = 260 fps with BB”s. 1077 heavier, more fuss to load, uses about 3x as many powerlets for same number of shots. 1077 is more accurate. 74 for plinking, 1077 for informal target and small game up to squirrel at up to about 15 yards. I like them both. You won’t disappoint with either.
Fido3030
Thanks, as a former kid myself, I know they’d be shooting any can they could find with it and concerned about the BB’s rebounding which it sounds like they certainly do.
I see the reason for testing at 5 Meters as that is what is used in competition. But, would not it be better judge of groups to use a longer range for testing? We know the groups open up at longer distances. Therefore, a longer range may show the differences in BB (and pellet) sizes better.
As for oiling BB’s, if the rules do not say not allowed then it is. A lot of competition pellet shooters do lube there pellets.
Silver Eagle
RidgeRunner, like your 5am comment! Actually I have liked most all of your comments for some time! Also I have really enjoyed this report this time do to the miscellaneous variety of replays this time on the subject matter! Semper Fi!
RidgeRunner, like your 5am comment! Actually I have liked most all of your comments for some time! Also I have really enjoyed this report this time do to the miscellaneous variety of replays this time on the subject matter! Semper Fi!
Omit replays, insert replies! Thank you!
BB– this is too good for me to keep without sharing——A mechanic was removing a cylinder head from a Harley, when a famous heart surgeon came into his shop. The mechanic said ” look at this engine. I open its heart, take out the valves, repair them and put them back. When I finish, the engine is as good as new. How come you get paid more, when we are doing the same thing?” The surgeon replied ” try doing it with the engine running!” Ed
Ed
I like that. And there’s more involved than what the surgeon and his team and equipment are doing.
There’s I’m sure a higher power working there.
Ed,
That not good,…..it’s REAL good! 😉
😀