by B.B. Pelletier
AirForce is very close to shipping their new match sights set, which consists of an aperture rear sight and a highly adaptable front globe sight. These items will also be available separately.
The sight dilemma
The airgunning community has long awaited a true precision target sight at an affordable price, and this one will be made right here in the U.S. The dilemma in target shooting is that you either have a plastic aperture sight that requires a special technique to use, or you have a sight that costs $350 or more. There hasn’t been any middle ground for a long time.
Sporter-class sights have gear slack
Ten-meter target shooters who compete in the Sporter class are most affected by this lack of precision sights. Coaches around the country have learned how to deal with the Daisy/Crosman/Gamo/Air Arms/Chinese plastic aperture target sights, to coax as much precision from them as possible. But in the heat of a match, things can break down and shooters can forget that they have to move the sight three clicks in the opposite direction they want to adjust to take the slack out of the plastic gears–most of the time. Sometimes, the slack is out and they over-adjust. Their coaches have to watch them closely, or they’ll lose a match because of an improperly adjusted rear sight.
The solution to this problem has varied over the years. Many years ago, the sights that came on the BS-4 rifle were available separately at a good price. They were rough but accurate copies of an older FWB sight, and they were more precise than Daisy’s plastic aperture sights. Even when priced low, that sight didn’t sell well enough for them to continue, so they stopped selling them altogether.
Gamo used to offer a pretty nice aperture sight that was made in Spain for the single-stroke target rifle they sold. It was plenty good and the price was remarkably low at the time. Since Gamo also made that single-stroke rifle for Daisy, its rear sight became fairly well-known among the junior 10-meter shooters. Throughout the 1990s, it was the best cheap aperture sight around.
The original Daisy aperture sight that was available as an upgrade for the Daisy 853 rifle was pretty good for the price. But then Daisy started having it made in China, and the quality slipped. Then for a short time, Crosman had a reputation for having a better Daisy copy than Daisy had, because they were still getting the Spanish-made units. Then Gamo came on line with their own Daisy copy, however I don’t see that one on the website. Maybe the Air Arms aperture sight has taken its place. They’re pretty much the same sight regardless of the name.
Today, coaches know that to make adjustments, they first have to know how to take out the gear train slack of each individual aperture sight. If they follow the correct procedure, these sights can work very well, but there’s a whole hodgepodge of different aperture sights out there, which makes it imperative for a shooter and coach to know each sight very well. Enter AirForce.
We’ve all been eagerly awaiting the new Edge target rifle that will dominate the NRA and CMP Sporter class when it becomes available. But a few years ago I learned that AirForce also planned to make their own aperture sights for the Edge–which is just as big a story as the rifle in my opinion. There’s never been an American-made precision 10-meter aperture sight until now. Redfield made the famous Olympic aperture sight, but it was built for centerfire and rimfire competition and wasn’t really a 10-meter design.
The AirForce sight set is entirely new. It consists of a globe front sight with multiple mounting heights and configurations. It comes with a clear plastic aperture insert and additional inserts of varying sizes will be available soon. The new front sight can adapt to rear sight heights that vary over a broad range. I’ll do a specific report on this sight and show several of the mounting possibilities.
The new rear sight will be of particular interest to target shooters because it will sell for about $140–or less than half the cost of a similar European precision aperture. Where other Sporter-class aperture sights have click adjustments of 1/4 minute, this AirForce unit has 1/8 minute. Of course at 10 meters, the adjustments are only slightly more than a tenth as far as they are at 100 yards, but the AirForce sight really allows for adjustments of half the distance of the sights with which it competes.
Like the front sight, the rear has a large vertical range that can be adapted to most situations. When it’s locked down, the adjustment knobs take over.
This new sight is for those who own a fine 10-meter rifle but have no aperture sight. Thousands were sold without sights to buyers who intended to scope them, but with this new sight they can now be reconfigured as real 10-meter target guns. Then there are other guns whose sights have been lost or separated by previous owners. You no longer need to spend another $400 to mount target sights on a rifle you buy.
But the biggest customer will undoubtedly be those tens of thousands of Daisy 853 and 753 owners who want to upgrade their apertures and still be legal. They couldn’t use the European sights on their guns, but the AirForce sight will be a sanctioned item of equipment for the Sporter class. I see the initial sales going mostly to these shooters.
I plan to test the rear aperture for this blog. The sights are expected to start shipping by the end of November or soon thereafter, and by then you should have a full report to help make your decision. No doubt you’ll have many questions. Start asking them now, and I’ll incorporate the answers into future reports.
90 thoughts on “The AirForce match sight set – Part 1”
BB I have a question. Will these sights be any good to a hunter at ranges of 50 to 100 yards? I routinely take long range shots at squirrels. I have very good eye sight for my age and want to continue to enjoy the ability to use open sights until I have to scope my Condor. From SavageSam P.S. How did your hunt go?
While these sights could be used for hunting at extended ranges, they is not their main purpose. You will be responsible for determining all the exotic sighting parameters.
The hunt went well. I will report on it starting next week.
Good morning B.B. Welcome back Funny, but while I was looking at the picture of the rear sight I also was wondering about using it for hunting. Are different size apertures availabe for it? Mr B.
Not at the present time, but a twist drill can fix that. and I will test it with a Gehman adjustable iris insert.
How timely. Finally got a rear diopter, front globe sight that will accept inserts and a new gehmann 530 iris (with 1.5x magnification) installed on my diana 27. What a differance for these old eyes! The standard diana open sights were very good, very accurate, my eyes weren’t. This has made all the difference in shooting this gun accurately up to 20 yards, 60 feet. I’m not sure I would hunt with this set up because of the limited “field of view” but for paper punching this is as accurate as a scope at these short distances.
Everyone should be aware that aftermarket inserts for your front globe sight are numerous. Brownells has a variety of metal inserts and the clear plastic sets of inserts that neil price sells are fantastic. He will make/sell a set of 10 with any outside diameter you want and any size opening/aperture you want.
I would suggest to anyone that doesn’t have a gun with a peep sight set up TRY IT.
I’d love to know about different size apertures, and the potential to include colored filters to increase contrast.
The Edge looks like a truly interesting rifle, though the 3000 psi PCP aspect doesn’t thrill as much as if it were a Disco-style 2000 psi.
BB…hi, and and can’t wait to hear more about your trip.
But…this is apropos…I was going to order the upgraded Daisy sight for my 853c, but I take it you would advise waiting for the AirForce.
But now I have another dilemma.
I got the PPK/S last week and am having a ball…so much so!
So now I’m looking at something else and would like your opinion.
I’m looking at either the Walther CP88B or the CP99B. Do you have a recommendation either way…or do you feel something else would be better in this class (realistic, blowback, decent power).
Also…the Marksman 1010. It seems to get really mixed reviews, but the boy would like a pistol and I’m leery of giving a 7 year old something like the PPK…better he should have to cock it after every shot…if you know what I mean.
Would it (the Marksman) be suitable for teaching a 7 year old respect for handguns.
As always, thanks,
Yes, if you are thinking of upgrading your 853 rear aperture, this will be worth waiting for.
My pick is the CP88. It feels SO GOOD in the hand!
Now for the boy. Instead of a pistol, why not a rifle he can manage? The 1010 is too hard for him to cock, so if it has to be a pistol, you will have to be with him all the time. I recommend the Beeman P17, which is also the Marksman 2004. Both are the same gun made in China. I see mixed reviews on reliability, but nothing shoots so well.
A Crosman 2240 is a second choice. Hard to cock but accurate.
If a rifle, the Hammerli 490.
Thank you for answering my question on the Career Fire 201S. One other question on big bore air rifles. Why is the rifling so slow on big bores? The reason for poor accuracy with the overweight bullet you tried in your test was nowhere near stabilized. Is there a downside to faster twist?
The Air Force sights look great and if I can find a 10 meter rifle I can afford will be a welcome addition.
What do you think of the Chinese EM 611? It sells for about one third of the price of European guns.
Big bore rifling follows black powder guns. Yes the twist is slow. Makers feels a faster twist looses velocity from friction.
Nix on the Chinese EM 611. It’s a poorly-conceived rifle. Nobody uses CO2 today.
Either get a QB79 or get a used 10-meter rifle from a qualified European maker.
When you test the sight, take it apart and show us what the internals look like, if you can!
Air Force is making all of the right moves here. The M1 Garand has shown me what aperture sights can do.
Volvo, regarding your crow shot of yesterday’s blog, how did you make a 40 yard shot without zeroing the scope? If you had to adjust the objective, I’m guessing the scope was not zeroed. Did you use holdover, or does your HW97 shoot flat enough that it wasn’t necessary?
Thanks BB, I to was liking the looks of the CP88.
The boys already have Red Ryders so I’ve got the rifle covered.
To tell the truth one of the things I liked about the Marksman 1010 was that, just like the Red Ryder it is stiff enough that I have to cock it for them. For at least a couple of more years I’d sorta like to have control over just how fast they can pull the trigger…that way I can always manage to get in a little saftey or aiming tip before they actually shoot.
So, I’m sorry, but I’d still like your opinion of the 1010, from a reliabiltiy aspect. I’ve heard that it is low-powered (a plus in this instance), and only has pop can accuracy, which is fine.
The two review on Pyramyds site are positive, but on reviewcenter.com a few people seem to think they fall apart.
I had my feelings verified a day ago. I let my 5 year old try the PPK. After careful instruction on how to hold it, aim it, etc he let off 5 shots in quick succession at our BB trap in the basement, which is also backed up by a 4×6′ piece of carpet. Yet with all my careful planning and instruction I now have a very nice semi-circle of 5 BB’s protruding from the drywall…actually we all had a good laugh, but the spackle comes out this weekend.
The 1010 is a marginal gun for reliability. Every one I have owned has eventually failed.
The P17 will also be too hard for your son to pump.
If I might make a suggestion – what about an airsoft pistol? Here is one that I own.
It’s reasonably accurate and your son won’t be able to cock it. You can combine it with a nice sticky target or a moving target that resets. That’s plenty of fun and more safety than a steel BB gun.
Now I know what to ask Santa for Christmas !!
I have a Daisy 853c and have been considering upgrading the diopter sight. This AirForce sights looks like it.
Do I need to install both the front and rear sights ? I was just thinking of changing the rear sights.
Eagerly awaiting the rest of your report.
On another subject.. what is the recommended method to use the felt cleaning pellets.. particulaly for the 853c rifle ?
Thanks again for an excellent blog.
Oh I forgot to ask. Will the Mendoza peep sight fit the 853c ?
How does this compare to the new AirForce diopter sights ?
There is quite a price difference between the two.
Glad you are back. Can you recommend an airsoft handgun for my 11-year-old boy? Here are the parameters: Hold at least 20 airsoft bbs, the more the better; be strong and accurate enough to shoot his goggle-wearing friends running away at distances of around 20-50 yards; be accurate enough to shoot at 1″ and 2″ plastic targets at 10 yards; be under $100.
To test his current airsoft rifle, which is a spring loaded thing purchased a couple months back costing around $40, he shot it into my upper back at 10 yards while I was wearing a shirt. Before allowing him to shoot his friends it seemed that one of us should test it first. It felt like a strong bee sting for 10 seconds, and was the most painful thing I had experienced in months. It left a notable red welt. I hope that the airsoft handgun that you recommend might be a little less powerful (but not by much).
– Dr. G.
I have seen this phenomenon of beautiful match rifles with scopes and there ought to be a law. Even I can see as far as 10M outfit can shoot effectively:).
Similarly, it seems like 3×9 is not enough scope for even hunting anymore. I have a couple that I really wish were 4x or even 2.5x. If someone knows a good fixed power scope for a reasonable price at low power and without a 4-inch objective, let me know.
Anyway, glad to see a non-magnifying option…for my eventual 10M rig. I assume the rear sight fits an 3/8″ dovetail? “Fits AF Egde and most 10M rifles” (or something like that on the PA site) doesn’t give me much information.
Thanks BB. I hadn’t considered the airsoft route but I think you are on to something.
I have been shooting my .22 Panther for a while now and over the past couple of days it seems like the accuracy has gone out the window. I have a 3-9X50 Leapers scope and I have removed the sights, the gun is otherwise stock. I have been shooting mostly Crossman Premiers, CP hollow points and JSB Exacts. My groups at 20 yards are about 2″ where they used to be more like 3/4″. Every couple shots I get one that lands 3 or more inches from the aim point. I have tightened all of the screws (they were already tight) and the results are the same. I am wondering if the scope is malfunctioning. When I originally sighted the scope in, I had to adjust it all the way to the right to get it to zero, but then it seemed OK. Now, I feel like I have to keep adjusting the scope one way and then the other and the POI keeps shifting. The windage adjustment clicks do not feel right at all they feel very soft. I do not have any JB bore paste, but I tried cleaning the bore with a Bore Snake and gun oil. That may have made a small improvement. Do you have any suggestions? Also, I just bought a tin of JSB Exacts for the fist time since you seem to really believe in them. I bought them form Pyramydair and about two thirds of the pellets were badly deformed. I have been sorting them to shoot them and have been trying to re-shape the damaged ones. Is this normal for JSBs or did I get a mishandled tin?
That’s a sterling example of responsibility to test out the impact of the airsoft gun. You might want to make sure your son has protection besides his airsoft goggles. I’ve heard the airsoft forums fretting that the equipment is getting more powerful all the time, and your son’s friends might not be as chivalrous is he in their choice of weaponry.
Is there any chance you’ll be getting your hands on one of those Career Infinity side-lever actions?
I can’t wait to hear your opinion..
throughout your discussion of aperture sights, I kept wondering where my Beeman rear aperture sight ranked in this mix.
As far as I can tell its US-made, all metal and I don’t detect any slop in the adjustments. Its even possible to add a variable aperture iris.
The price seems to fall in the barren mid-range you mentioned, but maybe the adjustments are too coarse to be useful as a 10m target sight.
As always, you insights are appreciated.
You tightened all your screws including the stock screws?
If your mount screws are tight, and your scope ring screws are tight and your stock screws are tight then take the scope off the gun, reinstall the open sights and shoot the gun. If it groups you have a problem with the scope.
Last Friday you asked about the scope mounting hardaware on my 54. I did not want a week to go by without some response.
The best I can tell you is that it is a 1-peice, 4-screw base with rings that are tightened by 1 screw each. It rests very solidly against that slotted screw at the back of the barrel, a screw which I understand often gets lopped off. I attached my scope mount with athletic tape to insure a very secure fit, as I did not want it to slide back and chop of the screw.
The first scope I had on this beast air rifle lasted a week and broke so badly that I threw it away. I think it was called an “Air Force” scope or something like that (I think that it came with a Chinese spring rifle). The second scope lasted a few weeks longer and did not break so badly that I threw it right away (a crack in the internal glass as best I could determine), but after a few more failed attempts at looking beyond a huge crack in my field of vision, I tossed it.
My third, and current scope and mounting have lasted for thousands of shots without lopping off the rear screw.
When I picked up the rifle cold today, the first POI was 1″ high and 1/2″ to the right. Each of the next 4 shots came down and back in a bit, so that the 2nd shot was 3/4″ high and 1/2″ right and by the 4th shot POI is 1/2″ high and 1/4″ to the right, where it settled for the next at least 30 shots.
I will pay attention more in the future about the first 5 shots, waiting 5 minutes and seeing what the next 5 bring, and similar adjusting of these parameters. I may consider putting the air rifle in the 80 degree furnace room and see if that has any effect other than getting dust stuck on all the oily surfaces.
There are two holes immediately in front of the trigger guard, and I use one of them as a marker on my palm so that I hold it the same way each time. I only shoot sitting, and use the same chair always. Not a recliner, of course, because then I would be Wayne, rather than…
– Dr. G.
This will be my debut blog comment and I think you will all find it both interesting and somewhat distressing. I had,apparently a common dilemma. Could not decide between the HW-97 and the TX-200 MKIII. Took me months to make up my mind, TX-200 it was (.22 cal. and the beautiful new stock with laser cut scale checkering tipped the scale) Ordered from pyramyd, painless as I’m sure a lot of you already know. Then, of course the torture of the waiting and wondering what abuses and indignities your prized package must endure as it wends it’s way around the world (several times in some cases) on it’s way to it’s new home. Showed up today, and, lucky for me, I was home from work to sign for it. (adult signature required) Couldn’t get that box opened fast enough. Took out the receipt and “airgun times” newsletter and, “what’s this?” a pellet hole piercing every folded and crumpled layer of said paperwork. Closer inspection revealed a nice .22 cal. hole starting at the muzzle and penetrating all six layers of the Air Arms inside carton several layers of aforementioned paper work and all four layers of outer shipping carton. Fortunately the folks at Pyramyd had sent my baby cocked and loaded with the safety off so she could defend herself against the ravages of those shipping carrier brutes. Seriously though, my rifle was shipped cocked, loaded and safety off. It discharged inside the box and blew a hole clean out through everything. After thinking about this for a while, I’ve decided it could have been worse, at least it wasn’t dry fired. Oh yeah, the rifle is beautiful. Jon F.
Welcome to the blog.
Ever hear of something called a ‘paragraph’?
Jon F. A question please: was there any sign of trama to the outside of the box? Was wondering how much force it would take to fire your gun, cause the sear to slip? Is there some problem with it that might make it unsafe? Too many questions, maybe, but if it did it once it could possibly happen again with disastrous results–just some thoughts Mr B.
As you have presented the problem, the mistake as I see it, is really that you have picked the wrong spring gun. Was this your first purchase? Everybody knows that the HW series do not discharge accidentally in transit, which of course has been a large part of their appeal.
I see that you are new to this blog, and so you can be excused for your lack of knowledge in this area.
Good luck with ordering pellets! It has been my experience that premature tin discharges occuring in transit, which are an all too frequent occurence with PA (and which you will read about on this blog) result in fewer deformations when using .22 caliber pellets versus .177, and so it looks like you made the right decision in going with .22 caliber.
– Dr. G.
If you got the 10 for 10, sounds like they owe you a dollar:).
Mr.B Good points, both. Pretty sure I don’t want to subject my rifle to the same level of violence and abuse that the shipping carrier was willing to. Seems like almost any gun should be considered unsafe if its cocked,loaded safety off, then put in a box and shipped across the country. Maybe better to question the safety of the person responsible.
CowboyDad, there are a lot of low-velocity airsoft pistols that can be good trainers for young ‘uns, guns that really have minimal potential to inflict damage or harm. Some of these guns would best be used with a sticky target because they might not penetrate paper at 10 feet.
As for the 1010, it is extremely inaccurate and has a horrible trigger. The only thing that recommends it is the mere fact of its existence – it is something of an icon. Like the Edsel or Yugo.
You can use just the rear sight on your 853.
I don’t recommend cleaning pellets in any air rifle or pistol. They serve no purpose. You should never need to clean your 853 barrel, ever!
The Mendoza sight is a sporting sight. If you are just plinking with the rifle it will work. But for precision target work you need to use a target sight.
Here is a pistol I use:
You didn’t tell me the velocity of the rifle you tested, so I cannot comment on the relative power. This is a green gas gun, so it will be easier to use. A spring gun would be too difficult for your son to cock.
This gun is full size and weight, so he may struggle with it.
Your barrel has to be cleaned with JB Bore paste. The Bore Snake with oil does nothing.
After that, use the JSBs and the barrel won’t lead up again.
The JSBs can easily be reshaped with a Beeman Pell Seat. But until the barrel is cleaned, they won’t make a difference.
Yes, I will start testing the Career Infinity soon.
Your Beeman (Williams) peep sight is a sport aperture. It isn’t a precision match sight, despite Beeman using that name at one time.
Comparing it to this sight is like comparing a Toyota Celica to a Corvette. Both have an engine and four wheels, but they don’t do the same things.
This sight has better adjustments, more range, a smaller aperture, a larger aperture plate, and a tunnel ahead of the aperture for increased darkness.
I forwarded your message regarding the condition of your shipment to the owner of Pyramyd Air. That is certainly a very serious situation that needs to be brought to his attention.
How is the rifle performing now?
Question about Discovery rifle. Just got mine back from Crosman for repair. Seems the valve body retainer was loose – they said they repaired it.
New proplem is that it leaks air out the end of the barrel. Leeks air as fast as the hand pump puts it in. This happened right out of the shipping box.
1. Pumping faster… just leaks faster.
2. Cocking and dry firing… no improvement.
3. Shaking the gun… no no improvement.
Try cocking the rifle before you start pumping. Once there is 1000 psi in the reservoir you don’t have to cock it, but many PCPs, including most European rifles, cannot be pumped from zero pressure.
Be sure to put the rifle on safe after you cock it.
Never allow the gun to get to zero pressure again. Always keep a caretaker charge of at least 1,000 psi in the reservoir to keep the valve closed.
We both had similar experiences with initially scoping a 54. Won’t go into the details of my trials and tribulations but will say I came close to selling this gun before sorting it all out.
When I pick up my 54 cold and start shooting the poi is usually off as well. Not quite as much as yours. I normally shoot this gun at 35 yards and it can be off a 1/2″ in any direction for the first 5 shots or so. I’ve found that shooting 5 shots and setting the gun down for 5 minutes corrects this. Not sure if it’s the gun warming up or the scope glass acclimating to the outside temperature or ?? but it works. Even if you keep the gun in your furnace room I think you will find an initial shift in poi until your glass acclimates to your shooting temperature.
Not clear from your comments but assume that you still have the original one piece mount with 4 screws and rings with single screws on the 54 with athletic tape to “insure a very secure fit”?
If my assumption is correct, what are you using for a scope stop? The rear screw? If so, I strongly believe that the lack of a true scope stop can be blamed for the majority of your shift in poi after the gun has “warmed up”. IF, the shift in poi bothers you like it did me I would suggest doing yourself a favor. Buy the new leapers base. Even though you don’t have droop. The positive scope stop this base provides, the selection of rings and the flexibility in placement of the rings vs. a one piece mount with rings is worth the $18.00 the base costs.
I’ve never noticed a difference in the accuracy of this gun based on hold. The 54 is the only springer I own that I can say this about. My biggest problem with this gun’s accuracy was putting the right mount and a good set of steel scope rings to eliminate scope movement.
Once I got the scope to quit moving around the only other issue was pellet selection. JSB Exact Jumbo Express (blue tin) are the most accurate in my 54 at 35 yards. Many pellets are accurate at short distances.
Just my experiences.
DB: Please let us know if that solved your problem. Thanks Mr B.
Yes, I still have the one piece mount with athletic tape under it. Putting tape between metal contacts makes a more secure fit, similar to using Loc-Tite for screws, and prevents any sliding.
The fact the the screw at the back has not been lopped off after at least 2,000 shots with the current set-up indicates that the Leapers 6-24 X 56 scope is not moving. It is a relatively heavy scope, and if it were sliding back at all it would have clipped off the screw by now.
Apropos to this discussion, last night I again compared the POI when using my palm versus using a bench rest (composed of a thick, folded comforter atop a couple 40 lb. bags of dog food atop a small table), shooting 3, 5-shot groups each way. The bench rest shot about 1/8 – 1/4 inch to the right, consistently. Or I guess you could say the palm hold shot a little to the left.
I thought that perhaps this was pulling to the side due to movement of the rifle when the trigger is pulled. So, being mostly ambidextrous (I can write and play tennis with either hand, though not at once), I tried for the first time shooting the other way. It was, for me remarkably easier than I expected. Most interesting, after the first 10 shots of practice, was that the groups still went in the same direction when rested on the palm.
I suspect that a significant number of questions re. the 54 will remain forever unanswered for all of us, even though we are talking about apparently simple, straightforward pieces of mechanical engineering. Probably best to leave these mysteries behind lest we get hung up on details and squander valuable family time.
– Dr. G.
Welcome. That is unbelievable. Since a box and packing materials could not contain the pellet, I have to wonder who received the package with the pellet and ensuing damage.
I feel the “ten for ten’ should be included after a certain price point. I know some of PA competitors do inspect and fire a rifle free of charge before shipping. My RWS 850 was delayed a couple weeks when they found a leak in it.
I would much rather wait, than get a bad product as the warranties normally do not cover shipping back and forth.
From now on I will make sure to keep my boxes pointed in a safe direction.
Kevin and Dr. G,
You guys have more patience than I do. Before I tuned my 36-2, I managed to get a set of rings that would not slip on the rail, only to find that the scope was then slipping in the rings. When I “fixed” that, the scope broke:). I got so fed up after that kind of tail chasing, that I still haven’t re-scoped it, although it should be easier on them now. I salute your persistence, but my springers will probably remain open-sighted forever.
The AO is just to adjust focusparallax for the distance. Normally you will do this while looking at the target. Then a quick glance at the end of the scope will tell you the distance you are going to be shooting at.
You can then compensate as needed for the shot.
Being in my own backyard, I was able to just guess the distance to save time. What I found interesting was I did all this without actually “thinking”.
The HW97K shoots JSB’s at about 930 fps and is sighted in for 30 yards, so no need to really hold over at that distance. My lower velocity rifles usually are sighted in at 20 yards and would be low at 40 yards as you suggest.
(They do make range finders for more exact readings, but the scope is close enough.)
Bg – farmer,
The only rifle I ever threw the towel in on as far as scoping was my .25 cal Patriot.
Kind of like try to grow a river birch in the desert, just not worth it.
A receiver sight fitted the overall theme of the rifle and stayed put.
Just be carefully about declaring the open sight rule. As I get closer to 50, open sights become more difficult. It is hard to explain, but focusing on back, front, and target is a challenge.
Peep sights are still easy as the rear goes unnoticed.
Handguns are also ok, due to the shorter distances, but I have had my eye on a lady .38 Special Smith and Wesson with pink Crimson Trace laser grips. ; )
I’d actually already given up on “the irons” for firearms, because I felt they weren’t humane in my hands:). That was one reason I got my first pellet rifle (Hammerli 490) just last Xmas: because I enjoyed open sights and figured 10M was still doable. It was actually harder than I thought at first (darn 10M targets are small), but daily practice (as opposed to once a week at most) had me shooting better than I did as a kid. The 36-2 and scope was because I felt I could scope it and use it at 25 yards for more carryover to firearms. The funny thing is that once I took the scope off and got the rifle working well, I was shooting acceptably at 25 yards, then sometimes 50 yards, eventually hitting cans and such at even longer distances. At a penny per shot with good accuracy and no risk of complaints from the neighbors, I relaxed enough to experiment. The combination of open sights and hold-sensitivity soon made rimfires almost boring.
Having said all that, I’m “only” 40, so I guess I should make hay while the sun shines:).
I believe the magic number was 46 for me. You’ll notice that somehow things at arms length look clearer than up close.
I guess glasses might help, but I decided why bother when I can see the world through a scope?
I shoot in my basement at a bit over ten meters often and just now put a scope on my last precision air rifle with iron sights. I can still entertain myself if I aim small, usually at the numbers on a target vs. the bullseyes. Obliviously, the big benefit for me is when I take them outdoors at longer distances.
For open sights, I use a 747 and the corresponding ten meter target is huge. Also, I do have a small assortment of Daisy level guns that I also keep as nature intended.
If you just turned 40, as I recall, your annual physical will now include a bit of an eye opener. : )
Hello B.B. and everyone else:
I am about to purchase a scuba tank tomorrow, and its a steel tank, 100cubic feet capacity, and used… I believe it comes with a K Valve… But my concern is that it says in the top that it holds about 3442psi at 70degrees farenheit… Is that OK for my future Talon SS (I was going to buy a Condor but I dont really need so much power… Instead I bought more accesories and spare tanks)…….???? Just in case… I live at Puerto Rico and temperatures in here are always above 90+…. Just curious sir…. Thank you as always…
b.b., Concerning the tx-200; yes it seems to shoot fine. It has good speed, power and accuracy or at least it seems to. This is the first pellet rifle I’ve had in .22 cal so I really have nothing to compare it to. The other rifles I have are in .177 cal. I have a Beeman R-1 and a Daisy/FWB 300. My initial impression is that it shoots slower than the R-1 but faster than the FWB. Smoother than the R-1 but nowhere near as smooth as the FWB (what is?) And seems to have more power than either. Even if the tx-200 had been cocked and loaded in England it doesn’t seem to have affected it adversely; although from what I understand the damage caused to a springer by leaving it cocked is usually over-stated. However, on the good side. I love the rifle, she is truly beautiful and there is not one single cheap plastic part anywhere on her. Jon F.
Does anyone know the diameter of a RWS/Hammerli 850 AirMagnum barrel? Need to make/modify a muzzle brake for a friend’s CO2 gun. He’s out of town and I can’t get hold of it. Thanks.
I think it is 15 mm – but would not bet the farm.
The 850 has its own forum, maybe ask on it?
Good evening B.B. Small game season is getting ready to open and the following, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CFaUlPHSY4&feature=related shows a squirrel hunter that has finally figured a way to rid his yard of the bird feeder destroyers once and for all. It's worth checking out! Mr B.
To make the muzzle break for the 850 you do not need to know the diameter, all you need is electrical tape or plastic packing tape. Here is how to do it…
Get the muzzle break that PA (and perhaps others, as well as the RWS folks) sells, the one with all the holes. Tape over the holes. Now you have a really inexpensive, good silencer which also will fit the Drozd barrel.
– Dr. G.
That’s an old one, but still hilarious.
No worse than “Americas Funniest Home Videos” where people are injured or almost killed and everyone thinks it’s funny. At least tree rats can take a beating without ill effects.
Jon – you’re living proof of why they say to always treat a gun as if it were loaded. I didn’t know that they meant even while it was still in the box.
BB – Finally got around to working on the 717 that I got in Roanoke. looks like she’ll be good as new for about $12 in parts from Daisy. I haven’t added it up, but I think that you can buy all of the parts and build one for less than Daisy sells the whole gun.
B.B. & Mr.B.,
Thank you for the suggestion. Still leaks. If I pumped real fast and then quickly pulled the trigger I could get a small puff… not a pop.
Any other thoughts?
I am trying to engrave and checker (very shallow)the wood stock on my StormXt. All is well so far. I have fully engraved the lower fore arm up to the trigger guard, engraved along the butt pad, and on the very top platform. It looks great. My 1st question is; why are there so many more engraved winchesters than all other guns. Secondly, I have NEVER seen an engraved airgun, why. Does it effect the harmonics. I haven’t finished nor shot it so far, so I can’t tell the differences.
Shadow express dude
Hi B.B. & All,
I dusted off the Sheridan Blue Streak I've had since the age of 12, and moved it to my daily shooting rotation. The old Webley pistol scope's optics appeared to have clouded beyond a cleaning. So I mounted a newer NC Star pistol scope and let all the fun begin. I was amazed at how well the old gun grouped at five pumps compared to some of my match rifles. Unfortunately a leak developed and the consistency is dropping per shot. The seal looks fine, but I'm losing a lot of air at the end of the stroke during pumping. I'm not interested in turning my "got-to" into a Mac1 Steroid Dan. A Sheridan guru I consulted (after reading an article featuring a field target Blue Streak)mentioned to me a better seal kit (Delrin?) that would reduce the number of pumps necessary. Like a maximum of 5. That sounded very appealing to me for all the shooting I'm doing with this gun. Any leads would be greatly appreciated.
Volvo, and anonymous,
Thanks for such quick info. 15mm=0.590″
Thanks for the suggestion. I’ve got several muzzle weights and I’m trying to use one. The potential legal ramification surrounding sound suppression make me not want to go there.
Your TX 200 sounds fine. Yes, it is less powerful than an R1, but it’s in the same neighborhood.
The good news is that when the time comes to replace the mainspring (you will notice some spring twang when this time comes), no mainspring compressor is needed. This is one of the few spring rifles that comes apart without a compressor.
What you are buying is a steel 100 cubic foot tank, and yes, it is fine for all PCP guns. You will get many more full fills from that tank than you would an aluminum 80 cubic foot tank.
That squirrel-launching video was cool.
That’s great. How about a report after you get her running?
Did she meet your expectations?
I;m tempted to say the gun should go back to Crosman a second time, but you might try one more thing. Try filling with CO2. It fills faster and the heavier gas might blow the crud off the seal for you.
If you oil with the fill, use silicone oil, not Pellgunoil.
Shadow Express Dude,
When it’s on wood it’s called carving. Engraving is for metal.
There are engraved airguns with carved stocks. I’ve seen plenty of them. Americans don’t seem to prefer them like Europeans. It’s a style thing and the pendulum is on the backswing at present.
I haven’t heard of better seals for Sheridans, outside of the Steroid-type tunes.
I would just have the gun resealed by one of the better builders like Dave Gunter:
Derrick: if you go to PA’s web site and look under articles, B.B. has an excellent one about the legality of silencers. A must read before you make up your mind. My understanding of this topic is that as long as there is no way it can be used, as it is currently configured, on a powder burner it doesn’t fall under the federal laws. However folks please chime in if anyone has any thoughts on this topic or perhaps some first hand experience with a game warden, the police, etc. Thanks Mr B
You got it right. The only caution I would mention is that sometimes the feds don’t share the same opinion of what can or cannot be used on a firearm.
The decision isn’t theirs to make, but they do have the right to press charges, if they believe a violation has been committed. Once they do, you have to defend yourself, and, right or wrong, it costs a lot of money.
Pyramyd Air is very concerned about what happened to your TX 200. Can you please contact tham at:
and give them your contact information, plus the original comments you made concerning the gun? They are investigating this to discover how it happened and they need your help.
Seems like the legality might have more to do with whether you use it outside or where your neighbors see you and think you’re using a silenced firearm and call the policimanos on you. Like any other group, the police have both stupid and intelligent cops. How they might respond depends on what your “lesson” is, I suppose.
The Squirrel catapult was hilarious. I played it for my wife and we both laughed. I’m not fond of cruelty to animals, but it was quite funny, nonetheless.
I think Cowboydad’s young kid might have trouble getting his hand around the UHC 1911A1 airsoft pistol and still reach the trigger. I suggest he go to a local store and check out some of the smaller airsoft, low-powered springers.
I worked with a friend’s 9-year old for awhile and was quite glad when he had trouble pumping my Crosman 760…kind of self-regulating. On the other hand, the times he went ‘squirrelly’ with an airsoft battery-operated repeating pistol weren’t as dangerous to himself or me as a BB gun would have been, so perhaps a small, low-powered battery airsoft repeater might not be as big a problem as the PPK/S BB pistol was. (Less drywall repair time required.)
I think it’s a matter of what you grew up on. I grew up on westerns and single-action Colts, and so accuracy was my bag. My adopted kids grew up on Police shows and semi-autos; they just wanted to see how much lead (in this case, .177 lead pellets from Crosman 357 revolvers) they could sling downrange as quickly as possible. They were early teens and safety was a bit easier to instill in them.
Problem, My Remington77 is makeing a metallic sound sort of like a clip ejection from a M1. It only happens over 5 pumps ( since I bought it 4 years ago, I have never pumped it over 7).
PS I made a slick vertical 1 inch group at 60 yards with my shadow express.
Shadow express dude
I have never heard a metallic sound from an AirMaster 77. But it sounds like you should do something about it..
However, it could be a valve opening. A PCP will do that. But not after 5 pumps, I don’t think.
How is the gun shooting otherwise?
I would say talk directly to a Crosman techy about this.
Excellent B.B.!!! I already bought it but you have just reassured me of my decision… THank you sir… Even though I haven’t received the rifle yet… (and probably it will take about a month or two since I bought many things and many go OUT OF STOCK randomly)… I will just be prepared so that it won’t happen to me what happened to Volvo when he bought his first PCP… LOL… Thanks again
By the way… Are all paintball CO2 tanks refillable?? If I buy one in a store, may I refill it later??? I am also planning to invest on a CO2 bulk-fill tank after reading your “Working with bulk-fill CO2 guns” article… Thank you once again…
Yes you can refill the C02 tanks, maybe not at the same store but they can be refilled.
The gun shoots better than ever. 1inch groups at60yards is easy using a centerpoint 3-9-32 and gamo master point. It only started the problem a month ago. The speed seems OK too, but last year I could feel the recoil when using Gamo rocket on 5 pumps. Now, the barrel hardly rises on 6-7 pumps. I inserted the sight screws again for the sight (I always use the scope) and looked down the barrel and noticed the barrel was bent downward. took the screws out and proceeded to shoot amazing groups at my 63yard range.
P.S. The barrel jacket wobbled a little, so I put some putty on the compression chamber to hold down the jacket. This improves accuacy drasticly.
Shadow express dude
Do not have any CO2 tanks to use. HPA was the goal so I didn’t buy any CO2 stuff.
BTW this will actually be my third Disco return. The second for this gun. The first time they replaced the whole gun.
Very frustrating. But thank you for your help. I’m sure Crosman will make it right.
BTW… they replaced the ugly stock with a nicer one… or refinished it. The stock smelled of new finish out of the box. So they are trying real hard to make it right.
Saturday was rainy and windy and Sunday was cold and windy, so no opportunity to try shooting any groups. It is still on the to-do list, so maybe next weekend if the wind dies down.
Hi. Do you think it possible that a magazine for my WE 1911A1 airsoft pistol could have developed a vapor lock?
I have two mags for it. I had not used the gun before today for several months. When I went to fill one of the mags with propane, the propane spewed out around the mag’s fill valve quite violently. When inserted, the gun refused to fire correctly: it refused to cock fully and it refused to fire a BB except sporatically and did not use up all the BBs before refusing to fire. When the release valve (that is hit by the hammer) was pushed with my thumb, no propane came out (the other mag’s release valve refused to budge under my thumbnail when full of propane), so obviously it was empty. This went on for several fills before it straightened itself out and the gun began to function normally again.
D’you think there is anything I could do to prevent this sort of odd behavior happening in the future, or do gas guns just do this?
BTW, is Green Gas just propane without the smell added, or some other gas entirely?
Green gas is propane. And my gas smells exactly the same as regular propane..
As for your magazine, it sounds like the valve needed exercising. Are you lubricating the gun with silicone oil when you fill it? Some green gas has silicone oil in it, but if not, try a drop or two on the fill coupling when you fill. Just like a CO2 gun, the seals need to be lubricated.
Hang in there. The rifle is worth the effort. Crosman was leak-testing every rifle they made, so your problems are surprising.
Thanks for the info. Good Lord, how do they get away with charging $10 for a small bottle? Insanity.
Seems like it would be easy to find your 'enemy' on the skirmish field by the smell…or by the flies circling above. ;->
"Green gas is propane. And my gas smells exactly the same as regular propane.."
If you do the research you’ll find many like you who believe that filling from a propane tank is a better way. The Adaptors are readily available.
You’re into the .22 rimfire and BB PPK/S pistols…do you have any experience with the green gas airsoft version of the PPK/S that PA sells?
Sorry. No experience. Might be fun, though.