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The need for speed

by B.B.Pelletier

Announcement: I already mentioned this in the comments section of yesterday’s blog, but it’s worth saying again. Crosman has sold the first 100 Benjamin Marauders, so Pyramyd AIR will soon receive their shipment of guns. This is the time to put in your order so you can get a rifle from the first shipment they receive.

When I was young and stupid (as opposed to now–when I am older) I wanted a .22 rifle. We lived on several acres in the country and were surrounded by large farms, so the location was ideal. And, by this early teenaged time in my life, I had owned several BB guns and a .177 Slavia pellet rifle without breaking any windows. Plus, I’d taken an NRA firearms safety course. The parental barriers had been breached. I could get whatever I could afford to buy!

That usually stretched out to as much as a month (I lived in a time warp in those days) of researching the market. That consisted of walking across the street to the hardware store and seeing what they had on their wall. Just before I got the green light, they had carried Remington Fieldmasters and Nylon 66s. As soon as I was allowed to buy a gun, they went into a starvation mode. All they had was a Winchester model 67 single-shot.

So, I researched that! My 1948 Shooter’s Bible told me that the Winchester 67 had a 27-inch barrel! Most sporting .22s had 24-inch barrels in those days, and several were even shorter!

Well, I’d been reading Guns & Ammo magazine for several months by this time and knew that the longer the barrel the faster the bullet went. I sort of overlooked the part where they related that barrel-length/bullet-velocity relationship to the type of powder being used, though, so I didn’t understand that it didn’t apply to .22 rimfires. Black powder works that way for sure, but smokeless doesn’t nearly as much and rimfire bullets actually go slower with barrels longer than about 18-20 inches.

Fortunately, I knew none of that. Kind of like how new airgunners today don’t understand that longer barrels hinder velocity in spring guns (well, they may not actually hinder, but they certainly don’t help) but they do help with CO2 guns and pneumatics.

However, for once my ignorance didn’t matter. I had an ace up my sleeve. I convinced that same hardware store that sold me the one Winchester model 67 on their wall to also special-order me a box of 250 .22 short gallery rounds with a special 27-grain “crumble ball” bullet. Made strictly for shooting galleries, these rounds had a muzzle velocity of over 1700 f.p.s.! And with that longer barrel, I was convinced that I would have almost the velocity of a .22 Hornet in my $50 single-shot.

Whether that ever happened or not, I never knew, for the personal chronograph was decades in the future and I barely had the money for cartridges. But one thing I did know for certain. With that ammo, I couldn’t hit a barn wall while standing on the inside! In fact, they were such a disappointment that I still have that box of shells and about 200 remain! They’re now considered very collectible because most were burned up by shooting galleries, where they were seldom shot farther than 20 feet.

With great reluctance, I learned that conventional .22 long rifle rounds worked best in my gun. They went much slower, of course, and they dropped faster over the course of 100 yards, but the harsh fact was–and still is–that ballistics don’t change regardless of your personal desires and preferences.

And that lesson is the moral of my little tale, of course. I read the articles, I read the ads and then I created a universe from the pieces of fact that could not coexist with each other. I see a lot of similarity between those days and today, with the crowd of new airgunners who want to mix and match the best traits of guns that cannot be combined. They want a hypersonic, ultra-accurate, flat-shooting projectile of limitless power and the silence of a tomb. And, could you please put all that in a pocket pistol I can carry into the woods, scoped with a compact 40x night-vision scope that sights-in by itself as you change pellets?

No harm in asking, I guess.

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.

135 thoughts on “The need for speed”

  1. I just took delivery on a S&W/Umarex 586, 6 inch barrel (from Pyramyd Air). There is a small round disk (about 1 inch) in the upper right corner of the case in which the 586 is packed. The disk has a squarish stud coming out of one side of it. Nothing in the manual about this disk. What is it & what is it for?

    Many thanks.


  2. Off Topic:

    I really don’t know why I’m writing this–maybe to avoid getting down to serious work this a.m.–because you big-time PCP hunters tend to make small-time informal target shooters like me feel sort of insignificant.

    The Marauder sounds great, but I’m in the $50 gun range, not $500.

    However, here’s a small tip on a basic airgun problem that I have not read about on any of these blogs or comments.

    My eyes are bad, and I wanted a stable mount for a red-dot sight on my Crosman 1377C. The intermount that Crosman sells was not doing the job. The pressure and banging of cocking the gun loosened the mount, which is plastic on plastic.
    Plus, the mount is only 2 inches long, and a full-size red dot runs around 4 inches long.

    So, I ordered a second intermount (they’re cheap) and superglued two mounts together, one in front of the other, and then superglued them both down to the barrel. After snugging down the screws, I mounted the red dot, and it has not moved or gone off zero through about 200 rounds.


  3. You’ve mentioned most of the criteria for my next gun but have overlooked some important features that I need:

    1-Since this is a gun that I will shoot targets with and use for hunting I need it to be able to shoot bb’s (they’re cheaper than pellets but you probably already know this), .177 pellets (i’ve read they’re more accurate at longer ranges than bb’s, but you probably already know this), .22 caliber pellets (i read they’re better for hunting) and shotgun shells (for killing those flying pests. lol)

    2-I need this gun to be a repeater. I’ve read about how hard some magazines are to load so I want a gun that is self loading or at least multiple reservoirs for bb’s, pellets and shotgun shells.

    Can you suggest 8-10 guns that will meet my requirements and tell me your favorite and tell me why it’s your favorite and tell me where they’re on sale and tell me how much shipping costs will be and tell me how their warranties differ. I can spend up to $118.00 (maybe a little more if it has a nice wood stock with good grain). At my maximum price it will need to come with a scope since I plan on getting rid of the gazelle’s that are making a mess out of our garden.


  4. PurcHawk,

    Great tip!

    Most of my airgun time is spent on informal target shooting too. I like this blog because I frequently learn how to make my guns more accurate.


  5. Gotta love those Winchester 67s. Great little rifle.

    Never got the chance to own a high velocity air rifle, but that doesn’t bother me much. I’m at the stage now where I just want to make little holes very close to one another on paper and do it in my downstairs. Just got a Daisy 499b a few days ago and it fits the bill nicely.

  6. PurcHawk,

    You could also look into ordering the steel breech from Crosman for your 1377 if the glue ever fails. It comes grooved for mounts. I don’t know how easy it is to install though.

  7. Jim,

    That is the tool to change the barrel..

    When I got mine the barrel was loose, and I freaked out.. but soon found the tool and saw how easy it was to change or tighten the barrel

    Enjoy the pistol.. it a very cool gun.. I have 3 now two in the six inch barrel and one with the 8″ barrel, which is so much like my Dan Wesson .357 mag, (in weight and feel)…it blows my mind..
    I know that shooting the 586 has really helped my accuracy with the Dan Wesson..


  8. Kevin forgot a few things.
    It should be a PCP and should be selling with the hand pump (but still has to be around 118$) and one easy stroke of the pump should get it up to around 3000psi. The gun should also be regulated and get at least a 100 full power shots per fill.
    Wow I really want one !
    I’d also be willing to pay a little more if it included a small, light weight, electric compressor mounted ON (or rather in) the gun itself, it could be batterie operated and have a plug in option but it would still has to be silent.
    I can’t wait to order mine.

  9. So just wondering…
    I’ve always thought the barrel of my Slavia 630 seems a lot longer than others in it’s class. It’s a a good 3 or 4 inches longer, for example, than my friends Diana 24.
    I’m entirely happy with it…accuracy wise it seems a tad better than his Diana.
    But, would it be faster with a shorter barrel?
    (not that I’m reaching for the hacksaw or anything!!)
    CowBoyStar Dad

  10. B.B.

    I love the Winchester 67 I got at the pawn shop.. now I love it more, knowing that it was your first firearm! I’ve really been going for those old single shot .22s..

    Oh, and I’ll take two of what Kevin ordered.. one to shoot and one to put on the shelf to save..
    somehow I think it will be a great collectible!!
    Make that three, I better send one to Vince to have him tune it for more speed!!


  11. Wayne, if you knew how many teeth I’ve lost through the years doing stupid things…for some reason I can’t suck a lozenge or hard candy, gotta chew ’em. Another time I thought my teeth would suffice instead of going down to the basement to get a pair of pliers.
    Nope, I’ll leave the barrel chewing to someone younger!!
    CowBoyStar Dad

  12. BB,

    I guess you could use that 40X scope on that dream of a gun to see the canals on Mars…


    PS: One Stowbilly to another…Would that have been the Call farm in your backyard?

  13. CowBoyStar Dad,

    You probably think that’s a good example for your kids too..

    boy.. what ever happened to the real cowboys..:)

    real cowboys don’t have teeth!!

    get with it man..

    Wacky Wayne

  14. I love the last paragraph!

    Ive heard a lot of different cocking efforts listed on a walther talon magnum without a gas spring. Does anyone have a reliable source on what the cocking effort is ?

  15. BB,
    I need a feature on my next PCP gun where if my scuba tank runs dry I can cock the gun with its auxillary spring piston feature and keep shooting.

    In my pre-teen years we had a tree in our back yard that we tied a rope to so we could climb up the tree and slide down the rope. My younger brother who was about 8 at the time was playing in the tree when he lost his grip. The only thing he could think to do in that split second was to grab the rope with his teeth to arrest his fall. You can imagine the result. His two front teeth were sticking straight out. The dentist pushed them back in to their proper position but after a while they discolored and eventually he had to have a partial. They probably did keep him from bone damage, though.


  16. Excuse me…

    only 40x on the scope?

    how about a 20-60x60AO sidewheel..

    you can’t forget us old folks!!!

    ah heck, go ahead and raise the price to $120..
    ..but then you have to throw in free shipping and a dozen tins of JSB 8.4 pellets…

    Wacky Wayne

  17. cowboystar dad,you need the extra length to reach the front sight! Kevin,how about full auto to enhance the self loading?I would also prefer a folding bayonet,onboard chrony,a Vince tune,and have it be one that Tom reviewed on the show…and will it pick up the show on the chrony screen please!!!I understand if that drives the price up to 125$ or so {with overnight shipping} FrankB

  18. Wayne,


    When I ordered the 586, I didn’t know they were selling the 4 inch barrel separately. Now that I know, it will be on the next order with the extra magazines.


  19. BB,
    Reminds me of my youthful exuberance when I got my Marlin 60 with mighty 4×15 scope and a box of minimags. Finally, I thought to myself, I will show my old grandaddy how to shoot. Surely a modern autoloader and optics will put his antique squirrel rifle and discontinued case of .22 longs to shame:). Well, one of us could pretty much hit his last shot with the next one(that’s what he aimed for after the first shot), and the other had to be content with sometimes hitting the blaze on the board we were shooting at:). They just don’t make a good mail-order rifle anymore:).

  20. youse guys is killin me wit dat stuff

    Soooo Vince when are ya gonna purchase and tune one of those HW30s
    then sell it to me for ~what I paid
    for the 490 :):):)

    By the way,whats happened to Rocket
    Jane ? Yall think she found the
    platform she wanted then just abandoned us? tsk tsk tsk


  21. Kevin and J-F,

    You made my day! Why did I miss all those important features?


    We had moved from Stow out to Sharon Center, a village near Medina when I got the .22. I was 14-15 and it was just before we relocated to California.


  22. To AlinCT:

    Thanks for the idea of a steel receiver, but daubing on superglue is about the extent of my gunsmithing skills, so I’ve been intimidated by the idea. I have read about the steel receivers on some of these early blogs.

    What’s it take to make the substitution?

    Does that also improve accuracy? My gun seems remarkably accurate to me, but I’m always looking for improvement.

    Appreciate your help!


  23. Kevin,
    You forgot to mention that you’re 12 and live in San Fransisco, but have an “uncle” in Reno who’s cool with ordering for you.

    Also, a tactical stock option would be great, as well as an attachment to air up tires!

  24. PurcHawk,

    The steel breech costs something like $27 + $9 shipping. It clamps the barrel down good and tight and gives you a good foundation for real sights that are micro adjustable instead of those move and pray ones that come standard. I consider it a must to make many Crosman’s a real gun…Easy to install, but there are small parts to contend with.

    BB – Was a youngster in NE Ohio myself (little town named Doylestown). Used to go to Copley for my hobby then – Lionel trains.
    Sounds like what you learned about air gun balistic limitations is what us engineers call laws of physics. Of course we have to continually test to see if they are really laws, or just guidelines…..

  25. B.B.

    That makes it certain.. the win 67 I bought at the pawn shop in Medford Oregon, was THE one of your youth.. and if it’s not that one, then it’s one of the other two I bought in town!!:)

    Now I can say I’ve got Tom Gaylord’s first firearm.. for dead certain:)..
    right Tom?

    just to be sure I’m carving your initials on the stock as we speak:).. you can sign it later..

    Collecting madman Wayne

  26. Hello airgunners, I am trying to make a custom stock for my air rifle. I have the Basic shape made, But I don’t know how to put checkering on the stock. Does anyone know how to put checkering on a wood stock ?

  27. Hi guys & girls, I'm new here, been reading these for awhile though. Since things seem to be running wild here I would like to throw out an idea . I have been playing with my point & shoot camera 3X zoom and auto focus, and I got to thinking , if you left the picture stuff out added a reticule and mounted it on a gun it would make a great sight.

  28. Derrick 38:

    Thanks for directing me to your blog on changing breeches on Crosmans. It’s very well done (I used to write and edit how-to manuals) and I am almost emboldened to try it.

    The problem I have is sooner or later there is a term used that is completely familiar to experienced airgunners (or firearms guys) but that I do not grasp. Sheer ignorance on my part. I haven’t done any shooting for over 40 years, so I missed a lot of practical knowledge.

    I assume your directions involving the CO2 reservoir apply the same to the 1377’s air reservoir, so I should follow the same procedures.

    My superglue solution to mounting a full-size red dot is still working, but it is bound to fail sooner of later. I discarded the crummy Crosman red dot immediately and moved on to a decent Tasco made for .22 rimfires, which is why I needed the glue fix.

    Thanks again!


  29. Shaky,
    What a cool analogy. And just like in shooting you must not take your camera away too quickly or the picture could be ruined. You have to follow through with a camera just like with an air gun.

    Thanks for joining the group!


  30. Shaky pay no mind to wos
    he just likes tryin to give folks a rough time.

    If my calc. is correct it’s ~9:15 or so in Wacky Waynes world so he should be in from his evening turkey
    hunt.Any luck yet ? I’m hopin you get a nice Tom,it’s a good feelin.
    Did you ever here the Paul Harvey
    story bout the fella who built
    himself a turkey call ?
    Seems he got his camos on and went
    into the woods to see if it worked,
    it must have worked a little too
    well cause while he was usin it
    a BOBCAT jumped him from behind
    lookin for dinner!!
    Another lesson about not lettin
    yourself get distracted if there
    ever was one:)Don’t you also have
    Puma’s in your area?Might be a good reason to hunt with a buddy:)

    Happy weekend friends!


  31. BB,

    Nylon 66. I remember those days. I was a kid in east Tennessee and there was a boat store just up the road that also carried guns and ammunition. As well as the 66, they also carried — was it High Standard? — revolvers in colored aluminum…pink and blue. I was interested but thought the colors too pastel. I was collecting all kinds of different caliber cartridges at the time and the salesman was kind enough to sell me individual cartridges without having to buy a whole box.

  32. PurcHawk,

    I think the steel breech installation is the same between the Crosman CO2 and pump guns.

    One question: when you open the loading bolt, do you see a tiny allen headed screw essentially right where you load the pellet? If yes, that's good–those are easier guns to swap breeches on.


    A custom stock is a pretty big undertaking. Of course you've already done some searches for "gunstock checkering". Did you look at Brownells checkering tools yet?


    Also take a look at some of Will's stock work here. You'll get some good ideas. A really good blog.



  33. I’m still here – looking on almost every day. I’ve been traveling a lot (to countries where airguns appparently aren’t popular), and just needed to get more rest.

    I am happy to report that my Career Infinity served me extremely well in ground-hog eradication efforts. I took two out last weekend as they began their annual invasion. They were out about 45 yards, so I didn’t try for head shots. Instead, I targeted high-center on body. The Infinity throws 28g Eunjins at 1000fps+, and the energy dispatched them both quickly with single shots.

    I am curious about market developments – maybe someone knows.
    1. Does PA no longer sell the Infinity? other US resellers do.

    2. I see Logun has an updated S-16 out, but not for the US market?

    3. PA advertises an Evanix “Blizzard”? Looks like maybe a good birding rifle? Are there any in the country, and can we get our hands on those fancy special stocks that Evanix has on their website?


    “Rocket” Jane Hansen

  34. Rocket Jane,

    Glad to hear from you! Like the others, I was also concerned that we hadn’t heard from you in so long.

    I will get so definitive answers for you on the Bilzzard. It will be for sale, but I don’t know when. PA ordered quite a few and I will be testing it, I hope.


  35. PurcHawk,

    Hi. Glad to meet you. I was gone on a trip when you started posting comments, so I let the others answer for me, but I’m back for awhile.

    Regarding the shooting terms that sometimes confound you, please ask about them here. That’s what this blog is known for–the education of every shooter, new and old, alike.

    I hope we can fuel your new shooting interest.


  36. Joe B.,

    Those pastel revolvers were indeed High Standards. I remember a light blue one and a pink one. There may have been other colors (gold seems to ring a bell) as well.

    Do you also remember the single-shot Savage 101 that looked like a Single Action Army revolver?


  37. B.B.
    Welcome back.

    What height scope mount is about right when used with a trirail on a Talon? Been using high rings straight on the rail.
    Would mediums be about right with the trirail?


  38. BB,
    Welcome back! Edith didn’t tell us anything about you. She was very closed lipped.

    See if you can get your TV show on the Outdoor Channel. My cable co. doesn’t carry the Sportsman Channel.


  39. PurcHawk,
    My 2 cents. The 1377c is a great $50 gun. Enjoy it as is. I mounted a pistol scope on mine a couple years ago and have pushed a couple tins of pellets through it.

    Scope is solid as a rock. Just avoid holding the scope to pump. teach yourself to hold the handle. You really only need 5 to 7 pumps for plinking and they are easy to pump.

    My barrel was loose from the factory. Once it was tightend it has stayed in place.

    Spend you time on the trigger instead. A little work will make it much better and for a few bucks you can buy parts to make it great.

    Enjoy it for what it is. A low cost hard hitting plinking gun that is accurate enough to protect your garden from rogue rabbits.

    Love my 1377c – it can shoot 1/2″ groups at 15-yards all day long.

    Of course if you just got to tinker then go ahead and mod it. The 1377 is a good platform for mods.

  40. CJr

    Lapping the rings….
    Scope rings (two piece) never mount up true to each other so that the scope can lie perfectly in them. There is always some twisting when the ring caps are tightened down. This makes the rings, scope, and rail all fight each other instead of reinforcing each other.
    It’s possible (even probable) that one piece mounts will not present a perfect fit for the scope either.

    To lap them, a tool is used to true up the inside surface of the rings to get them to fit the scope right. They need to be mounted exactly where you want them before you lap.


  41. Chuck,

    I don’t get it either. I’m going to have to spring for a TV and a satellite setup just to see our show. And it always seems to be in some premium package, no matter who carries it, so more money there.

    We would love to affiliate! All we have to do is be asked. Of course we need a show, first.


  42. twotalon,
    Thanks for the definition.

    B-Square adjustable, two piece rings are automatically lapped during install then because they are allowed to twist laterally and vertically until you done tightening everything.

    Love those things. Just wish they weren’t so expensive or I’d put them on everything.


  43. CJr

    I have two sets of those.

    It took a few shots for them to settle down right after I installed them. Must have been some stray force from the tightening procedure at work.

    If I use them again, I will wait for them to settle for a few shots, then loosen and retorque the caps.


  44. Rocket Jane,Welcome back!
    must be a bummer goin to places
    where AG’s aren’t popular,hope you
    enjoyed the travelin anyhoo.good
    job on the chucks they can be pesky.

    Derrick,nice one on the Izzy let us know when you get more posted.You
    may convince me to get one.been holdin’ back cause I’ve already got the 953.


  45. twotalon,

    I didn’t experience that “settle down” problem. I think what worked for me was that I made sure the adjusting screws were all loose without falling out of the detents until I had the scope itself secure following BB’s instructions on tightening scope rings. Also, I made sure the front and back ring had plenty of space under them to move freely in all directions. And when I was done I made sure the setscrew locks were tightened down on the adjusting setscrews.

    If a totally, naturally zeroed scope is what you desire I don’t see how it could be done on any gun I own without these rings. (I’m starting to sound like an infomercial)


  46. twotalon,

    I’ve got a WOK butt on my Talon SS and dearly love the way it locks the gun to my sholder and raises the gun up for a repeatable and comfortable cheek weld on the HPA tank.

    If you go to TalonAirgun.com-Index 1 and open up Talon/TalonSS you’ll find a thread there that’ll get you to a WOK Butt. Well made with a good finish and very adjustable. It’s got the good shooting accessory seal of approval.

    Mr B.

  47. Mr B
    I made 4 butt plates for just over $10 out of 1″ aluminum.
    Not quite as nice as a “WOKBUTT”. but definitely better than stock.

    Need to make one more since I swiped the one from my micro tank to put on the Condor (Talondor) tank.


  48. Mr B, twotalon,
    Those butt plates look like they would only work on the air tanks. Do you know of any that would work on 12 oz CO2? Also at $55 the Wok’s seem awful expensive. Of course, I realize the guy hand makes them so there is that. And, if I decide that black socks on the CO2 cylinder don’t work for me anymore is there an alternative out there somewhere? I have seen beer cozys mentioned.

  49. CJr

    Those “WOKS” look very nice. Some good craftsmanship there.

    Wok and some of the others haves made some plates that strap to the tank. That might be easier.

    Beer cozys? If they fit.
    Possibly thin rubber pad and some contact cement?

    Used contact cement and padding for toolboxes/ routers, kitchen cabinets to cover the back end of my butt plates.


  50. Derrick38,

    I think you know this, but I am also an Ohio native. I hail from a little farther south then you, but I did spend most of the last decade covering the areas you and B.B. were speaking of with beautiful Mc Mansions – just giving the public what they want.

    Anyway, as you know it is gorgeous outside right now, so off I go.

  51. Volvo,
    Your McMansions/location remind me of a song lyric: “way to go, Ohio” (some of my wife’s chick music, I think):). Not much better here or anywhere. I once saw a news piece about development, where the guy said he always loved driving by a big old farm on his way to work, and he couldn’t resist buying a house there when it was developed:). Everybody wins, I guess.

  52. twotalon,

    Your talonder terminology fasinates me. Exactly what do you mean? The reason I’m asking is because I’ve got a 24″ .22 barrel for my SS and keep wondering about possible valve work, hammer weight, etc. to take full advantage of that length barrel. What are you thoughts on that matter–thanks!

    Mr B.

  53. Mr B.

    I installed the AF hammer weight and a Condor tank on my Talon.

    I do have a 24″ .22 barrel that is incredibly accurate, but have stayed with the 18″ barrel. I had mentioned the story behind the purple long barrel here some time back.

    Worked out about perfect with 950 fps average with Kodiaks. Not nearly as much noise or air used the way I have it adjusted as I expected. Nice bell curve. 965 fps peak and 930 fps min over more than 30 shots.

    So I’m shooting a sort of hybrid with a Condor power plant.


  54. twotalon,

    Did you by chance run the chrony on your 24″ .22 barrel? If so can you give me an idea of what they where–thanks.

    Wacky Wayne,

    I’m surprised that you’re not out there hunting the bearded bird with your S410. One well placed pellet through the head rather than a bunch of random holes who’s locations are ultimatley controlled by chance rather than the skill of the shooter.

    B.B., Are you done filming the show or are you still making the long comnmute to NYS?

    Mr B.

  55. Bg Farmer,

    I would guess most of the country is similar. Not quite as evil as it sounds. Don’t believe the stories you read about those 2800 sq ft homes depleting resources. I would estimate they have way less wood in them then a nine hundred square ft home built at the turn of the century or a 1200 sq ft bungalow built in the 1950’s. T-ply or Dow sheathing covered in vinyl siding, saw dust trim and base boards, OSB floors and roofs. Also energy wise they are 4 time more efficient than most existing homes.

  56. Mr B.

    Have not run the chrono on the 24″ with the Condor tank.

    With the Talon tank I normally got 900 fps with the 16 gr exacts with the 18″ barrel and about 960 fps with the 24″. Hardly worth the extra length and weight. Never tried it with Kodiaks.

    Some guys say they get a lot more mv increase than that, but my talon stops there. Fill press 180 bar.


  57. Thanks to all who have commented and advised about my 1377C.

    While thinking about modifications and trying to work out exactly what the “transfer port” does, it dawned on me that I really don’t have a grasp of exactly how a pneumatic or gas gun works.

    B.B. hs explained clearly and in detail many times in this blog how springers work and why they vibrate so much.

    However, I’ve don’t remember reading a detailed description of how the pressurized air or gas ends up behind the chambered pellet in a pump or CO2 gun.

    I assume that the end of the “bolt,” which looks like a small rod that tapers to a rounded point in my pneumatic guns, must have a valve of some kind through which the air or gas is released, but that’s not very clear in my head.

    And, where are all those immensely important seals you guys are always so concerned about? I can see the one on the end of the cocking piston that compresses the air into the reservoir (the one that has to be oiled often) but where are the rest? Am I confusing this with the seals in a springer?

    Can anyone give me a concise description, so the concept of a transfer port will take more concrete form in my brain?

    I know this is baby-step stuff, but I appreciate the help the veterans dispense so freely on the blog.


    PS: Derrick38–My 1377C has a flat, round disk on the floor of the receiver just in front of the chamber where your blog shows an allen screw, but mine does not have an allen head but rather a small indentation in the middle of the disk. Is this a pin or a rivet?

  58. PurcHawk,

    BB blogged how pneumatic guns work at the following location.

    He also talked more about the valve here.

    Basically the valve releases air through the transfer port to the back of the pellet.

    Hope that helps.
    A.R. Tinkerer

  59. PurcHawk,
    The bolt is just a solid brass part. No air passes through it.

    The transfer port is in the barrel just in front of the oring bolt seal. You can not see i until you have the gun apart.

    BTW… the 1377 is very easy to take apart and put back together. And there are so many ready made upgrade parts you could go crazy and turn you $50 plinker into a $300 hunting carbine. No problem.

    Seems to me BB did a review of the 1377 about a year or so back. No doubt oiling was discussed. You’ll also find many upgrades discussed.

    If you’re new… start with the trigger. Improving that is easy and provides the biggest bang for the time spent.

    Enjoy you 1377… there are so many people that use that gun you will have no trouble finding help on any issue.


  60. PurcHawk,

    Slow down! You DO know how a PCP works–you just haven’t stopped to consider it.

    A PCP works EXACTLY like your 1377. The only difference is you have to pump up your pistol for each shot. But what if your pistol had a larger air reservoir that you could fill with air? You would get more shots and of course it would take more pumps to fill it.

    That’s all the difference there is.

    The air transfer port is a tunnel leading from the firing valve to behind the pellet. Pressurized air passes through that tunnel after the firing valve has opened and continues to flow through until the valve closes again. With your gun the valve allows all the air inside the gun to pass, but with a PCP, most of it remains in the much larger reservoir.

    That’s enough for now. Please tell me if this makes sense.


  61. PurcHawk,

    Check out Air Rifle Links and Demos they have alot of pictures and diagrams of how difference ari rifle power plants work and some other neat stuff.

    Mr B.

  62. Mr B,

    Naw, it is just AiR with the “i” left out or ARe with the “e” left out. That makes it “AiR tinkerer” or “I ARe a tinkerer”. Just trying to be clever without success, LOL!

    A.R. Tinkerer

  63. MR. B.

    I thought about using the Air Arms s410 for a head shot like in the movies.. but Josh said it’s not legal!!

    Also, I wouldn’t have the chance to taste all these fine shotguns!! ..
    so it’s a good thing..

    Kevin has taught me how to learn to get the pellets just in the head and neck.. (pattering the shotgun).. not that it insures a clean kill without pellets in the good meat, but the chances are way better now..

    I DO KNOW what my shotguns do with different shells… now, I just have to do the right thing at the right time!!.. in the excitement of the moment.. not as easy as it seems..

    I did take a squirrel last week with AAs410 .177 at about 60 yards.. at perfect head shot, right behind the eye.. he flipped over and was spinning on his side, when he paused, I put another pellet in his head, and he stopped moving..
    A .22 cal might have killed him with one shot, I don’t know.. Kevin?


  64. PurcHawk,
    Just to expound on BB’s train of thought. Multi pump functions like a PCP.

    There is a guy that took a Benji multi pump rifle and turned it into a PCP hybred. Meaning it holds more air than is needed for one shot. So you could shoot two consecutive shots or pump three times between shots and always shoot at full power. The three pumps just tops off the air pressure. Sweet idea no doubt.


  65. Derrick,
    Thanks for that IZH-61 tune blog !! I, for one, can appreciate the effort that goes into something like that.

    What would I lose by not being able to machine a new spring guide like you did? I was bobbing up and down in the water until you pulled the lathe out and then I went under water.


  66. Wayne,

    With your excellent shot placement I have little doubt that the squirrel you shot at 60 yards with the .177 would have been dead before it hit the ground if shot with a .22 cal S410.

    If using Kokiaks, for example, a kodiak in .177 is 10.6 grains, a kodiak in .22 cal is 21.1.

    Until recently, the squirrels have been allowed on my property. For some reason this year they’re started chewing the wood on my balcony’s and stripping bark from the trees. Game on.

    The kodiaks were over penetrating at even 50 yards. I dialed the power down and had problems in wind. I tried some jsb predators. Although the accuracy isn’t as consistent with the polymer tips, when I take them out of the pellet accuracy improves dramatically and the devastation on a squirrel is massive. Found out the other day that when you take the red polymer tip out of the jsb predators you have created the jsb predator hollowpoint pellet. Since pyramyd air quit carrying the hollowpoints I guess I’m relegated to removing the red tip.


  67. Wayne,

    Too bad on the shotgun only for turkey there. If rifle and shotgun were allowed you could enter the wondereful world of drillings.

    Kevin was correct about your squirrel and shooting him with the .22 instead of the .177. But I’ve also had them wiggle a little with a Benjamin 392 propelled CP with a head shot.


    The red squirrels get into our summer cabin during the winter and it’s amazing what they find to chew on.

    Mr B.

    PS word verification is vermint

  68. Kevin,

    Have you tried the Crow Magnum pellets? How do they compair to the detipped predators? By the way we’re working on a RTRT (Red Tip Removal Tool) that should make your job alot easier. However, the price point right now is approaching the WOK butt.


    Nice blog on the IZH. You are the man–articulate writer, machinest and photographer. With your plethora of skills you should apply for the position of Senior Stage Hand with B.B.’s production crew. The pay'[s not alot but look at all the neat airguns you’ll get to play with!
    Mr B.

  69. Kevin,

    I was using JSB 10.2 heavies.. the bugger was stealing the bird seed and chewing on the feeder to get the last of it..
    When I saw him and grabbed the AAs410, it had an almost full magazine, so I just used them..

    I opened the door and he ran down the driveway.. thinking 60 yards was enough, he stood there chewing on his stolen booty.. I sunk down in my FT position, but this was not a steel target…

    …and alas for the squirrel, it wasn’t far enough, was it?..

    I usually just take the starlings that are stealing nests from the woodpeckers, but this squirrel chewed up my feeder!!.. stealing seed is bad enough, but he went too far..

    Mr. B.

    I sold all my .22 cal air rifles, thinking I was going to focus on Field Target.. then came firearms and hunting… now I’m thinking maybe I need one .22 cal air rifle again..

    Maybe I’ll change my order on the Marauder to .22 cal… but I did want to go head to head with the Air Arms S410 in .177.. so I’ll have to think on it.. a thumbhole AAs410 in .22 cal like Kevin’s is very tempting..


  70. Wayne,

    Go for the S410 in .22 with that beautiful walnut thumb hole stock. A whole bunch of us want to see your S410 in .177 go up against your .177 Marauder. Boy arn’t we free with your money!

    Mr B.

  71. Mr B.
    I tried predators with the points pulled one time. They sucked worse than crow magnums.

    How well they would shoot in a slower gun is anybody’s guess.


  72. Mr. B.

    When I tried the hollow points, accuracy fell way off.. I’d rather make a small hole in the right spot, than a big hole in the wrong one!!

    Even the Eunjin 16 gr. in .177 did better on accuracy than the 3 different brand hollow points I tried.. I’d use them out to 30 yards, and they do some real damage… but at 60 yards, I wouldn’t risk a shot, for fear of missing totally or wounding and having a squirrel get away to suffer and die slowly…


  73. Wacky Wayne AND EVERYBODY ELSE,

    I want you all to read and think about what Wayne just wrote. He, “…sunk down into the field target position” and executed a head shot on a squirrel 60 yards away!!!

    This is the same Wayne who just months ago was having trouble getting good groups at 30 yards.

    Our boy has grown up! If that isn’t progress, I don’t know what is.


  74. B.B.,

    If I don’t get the channel that the show will appear on, Will the video be posted on PA’s site or some other site? I do not get the sportsman channel or out door channel. I do get the Hunting channel though.


    BobC NJ

  75. I only have crow magnums in .22 cal. I’ve tried them in 6 guns. They won’t group in any of my guns. The only gun I’ve tried the jsb predators in was the S410. They group in about 1 1/3 inch at 50 yards IF I dial the power down to the second to last notch and IF I take the polymer tip off. I haven’t chronied them I was just testing for grouping.

    Although some people swear by their accuracy, they are only so so in the S410. I bought them for expansion and less penetration. They work at short distances.


    Starlings are not allowed within shooting distance on either of my properties.

    Mr B.,

    We have ground squirrels at my place in the mountains. They haven’t found a way into our home but last year they chewed the wiring up in my ford 9n and that was the last straw.

    They don’t have a chance this year with the S410.


  76. Bob C NJ,

    If comcast is your provider please contact them. They carry the Sportsman Channel in PA but not in Colorado.

    I’ve called and I’ve written comcast. If they don’t have the sportsman channel by July 1st I’m switching providers.


  77. Guys:

    Of course, you folks really know your stuff, and you have cleared up several mysteries for me.

    Thanks to all of you.

    I did understand that a PCP is just a pump pneumatic with a large, pressurized reservoir, but I was not clear on where and how the air moved to fire the pellet.

    You have made this pretty clear now.

    OK…I’m a mechanical dunce, but for the life of me I did not think that was an allen screw–man…that’s tiny!

    The Crosman steel breech kit info says it comes with the proper allen wrenches, but I didn’t believe it was really a screw.

    I think the advice on the trigger fix is good. My trigger is the weakest part of the 1377C package, and improvement would certainly help my attempts at accuracy.

    This was all super good of you to help me out and shows a lot of compassion for a newcomer with a modest budget.



  78. RWS makes a Super-H-Point that is a hollow point but it is only a 6.9gr pellet. It’s not my favorite pellet at 10m and I don’t shoot farther than that. Has anyone tried that on critters? Seems kind of light for that but it’ll be fast.


  79. Kevin,

    Crow Magnums – I had a .177 cal R-1 that loved them, but every other airgun in .177 or .22 has wanted nothing to do with them.

    I’ve thinned the tree rat population by about a dozen with the Cyclone and a tin of Crosman Accu-Pells with the medium (24 ft lb) power setting. On high at 33.8 ft lbs the Kodiaks actually went through both squirrel and fence. The Crosman’s are not very exciting to look at, but effective. About a two second twitch is the most I get.


    I agree with Kevin that in a high power PCP .22 cal is the way to go if you are using it for hunting.

    .177 is justifiable in a lower power rifle to get the penetration and flatter trajectory.

    Do you need this yet?


  80. CJr,

    I have tried about every pellet type made, and in the end a simple, boring round nose pellet is hard to beat. They have a better ballistic co-efficient so they shoot flatter and retain more energy down range. Typical they are also the most accurate at hunting ranges

  81. Volvo,
    I have been using the round nosed Crosman Premier 10.5gr in the box for my CO2 .177 Talon SS for 10m shooting. It is the most reliable, consistent pellet, for that gun, I’ve used so far. However, the talk I’ve been seeing on this blog about lead buildup has me a little concerned. Time will tell I suppose. Sounds like it can always be cleaned out.


  82. Volvo,
    We’ll never know if our humor is appreciated until we all go online verbally so we can hear the chuckles in the background. (All right, no chuckle jokes please). A verbal connection is doable. When I play computer games online with my brother in Phoenix and my nephew in San Diego and my son in Toluca, Ill. we use Teamspeak which is like a conference call through the computer. Amazing how good it works. The only problem is when we all try to talk at the same time. Kinda like “The View”.


  83. Volvo,

    I haven’t had time to go out the last couple days.. so no..
    I don’t need a recipe for turkey yet…
    Thanks anyway..

    I think I’ll go out in the early am and see what’s left after a weekend of hunters banging around..

    practicing my scratch call..

  84. ajvenom,

    We bought a Glock 36 for Edith. It's accurate enough (similar to here 1911 Colt) and very easy to shoot.

    The only problem with Glocks is that they sometimes blow up with reloads! There is even a You Tube film in which the Glock blows up while the guy shoots it.


    This is a well-documented problem with just Glocks and it sours my opinion of the guns, because we shoot so much. It has to do with a large unsupported area of the head of the case.

    We will own and use the one Glock we have, but I doubt I'll buy abother. I wish I had known about the "Glock Kaboom" before I bought this one.

    However, with factory cases you are apparently safe. The number of explosions with factory ammo has been small, though it has been known to happen. Even one police force had an explosion with factory ammo.

    The gun doesn't recoil much, despite being light and small. And the trigger is okay for defense use. It's even better than okay–it's pretty good. The model 36 we own is even smaller than the one in the video, and we have it chambered in .45 ACP, which is heavier than the .40 S&W in the video, but Edith likes the way it handles.


  85. Bob C.,

    The American Airgunner website will have clips of things not shown on the show and advertisers like Pyramyd can link to these clips if they like. So the short answer to your question is yes.

    We will also probably sell DVDs of each season, after the next season starts airing. That will have to be negotiated with the network.


  86. Kevin,

    You own a 9N? I’m a tractor enthusiast and used to subscribe to the 9N, 2N, 8N, NAA newsletter!

    I live in a subdivision and on a plot about 1/10 acre, so I can’t even justify a riding lawn tractor, but I have always wanted a few old tractors to ride and pet on rainy days. The Fords seem to be the right size to keep and they seem to be easy to yard-break.

    I like the idea of a Johnny-Popper model B (styled or not), but the thought of bringing home those large bags of tractor kibble from the farm store throws me off. I hear that an 8N can run for a full day on just a rag soaked in gasoline and stuffed into the carburetor intake.


  87. B.B.,

    I’m deeply concerned about your mental health. We tractor nuts are a strange group.

    My excuse for the 1942 9N was removing about 5 acres of sage brush (my wife is extrememly allergic to it especially when in bloom), sculpting a pond, building a circle driveway and then spreading road base and rock on the driveway. I did the conversion to 12 volt and bought an aftermarket seat because of my uneven terrain but almost everything else in my old flathead is original.

    Although the ford did a marvelous job at all my tasks, in reality I grew up with a 9N and had to have one. Some folks have restored model T’s, some drive fast sport cars, I’m a tractor guy. Takes me back to simpler times when I climb on board.

    I still use it to plow snow, keep the gravel on the driveway with the box and drag the ruts on our dirt road. I cuss everytime I need to plow snow since I have to light a fire under the oil case just to get it started. They’re cold blooded.

    I love the song a Johnny Popper makes and wished several times I had its’ power but the terrain at my place prevented me from buying an old John Deere. The stockiness of the 9N fits the property (and me!).


  88. Kevin,

    I have Direct TV where I live, and the landlord has control over that. But i will ask him to see about getting the Sportsman channel.

    B.B., That is good news, at least I’ll have a chance to see them down the road. Thinking about my own way and ordering Vios from Verizon.

    Thanks guys,

    BobC NJ

  89. BB & Kevin,
    I'm going to have a hard time taking you all seriously now that I know you're Ford N and JD fans:). I was sure that you both would recognise quality and be IH, AC or MM fans:).

  90. BG_Farmer,

    It’s worse than you think.

    I’m the 3rd generation of a ford family. It’s in my gene’s.

    It’s so bad that I only drive an F-250 or an Expedition.

    You probably drive a chevy? LOL!!!


  91. BG_Farmer,

    Just for the record, I like all old tractors. I love the International Cubs and Bs and I read all of Roger Walsh’s books about his Allis tractors. The Minnie Mo is the only old one I never warmed up to. Too stupid to work that hand clutch, I guess.

    Randy Leffingwell is one of my favorite authors!


  92. Deere, Case, IH, New Holland, Ford, Allison…etc….like airguns, you either like them or you don’t.

    I’m kinda becoming a fan of the .40 cal. Still trying out some pistols. Still looking for a reliable light weight pistol that is still affordable. I wouldn’t be shooting it enough to justify reloading.

  93. kevin,

    lol…….223, like it would need to to fragment to vaporise a prairie dog, but for safety, a good idea.

    South Dakota’s a good place for shooting prairie dogs.

  94. ajvenom,

    “shot him in the toodles”…ha ha ha!

    I’ve got very fond memories of some great pheasant hunting in south dakota. Terrific folks out there.


  95. Pheasant is awsome…they’re everywhere in S.D. and not a lot of hunters…you can actually see flocks of them roaming the praire out there. Matter of fact the fishing pretty good too in some area. A lot of game if you know whwere to look.

    I was reading today’s blog…..yep I can add how things are made videos and some food channel shows to my addiction list too.

  96. Kevin,

    I like the Barnes Varmit Grenade bullet! Wonder how they’d work out of my TalonSS? Mental picture of the red squirrels at the summer cabin and it was pretty.:)

  97. Mr B.,

    If I didn’t have neighbors so close by my cabin I’d consider using the barnes varmit grenades on my ground squirrels.

    Nasty critters that dig holes everywhere. Kids have twisted ankles and the dogs get fleas since they insist on sniffing every hole.

    I’m optimistic that with the S410 they will be eradicated much quicker this year.


  98. Kevin,

    My thought on the VG bullets was as ammo for my TalonSS with its AirHog shroud. 🙂 Naturally they wouldn’t work, but I can imagine
    watching the the red squirrels just vanish in a puff of red. Guess I’ll have to stick with super glue, small pistol primers and Meisterkugeln pellets. However, there’d be hell to pay if you had a clipping problem with a LDC.

    Between you and Brody, Wayne is running out of excuses. Yes WW camo is the only way to go. I’ve got a Gilly Suit from Cheaper than Dirt that’ll get you Buck Knife close.:)

    Yes the frugel gormet was one of my favorites also. Used to love it when he’d say use what you got.

    Mr B.

  99. Marc,


    B.B. did a 3 part series on the superstreak awhile back. Here’s a link to part 3 of the series. At the top you will see “part 1” and underneath it “part 2”. Just click on part 1, then part 2 to read them in sequence. You’ll need to copy and paste this link:



  100. Mr B.,

    It seems that with all the experimenters out there that something similar to a vg bullet in a talon is in the realm of possibilities.

    Seems like a recipe for disastor in an airgun. (pun intended)


  101. Marc,

    So many shooters who are new are shocked by the size of the Superstreak and by how hard it is to cock. It would not be a first-gun recommendation for me!

    I would recommend an RWS Diana 48 in .22 over the Superstreak. Yes it costs more, but there is a reason. It is better quality and a far easier rifle to shoot.


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