by B.B. Pelletier
Today’s the day we test the .177 caliber Lady Recon for velocity! I know Night Owl is waiting to see how this Recon stacks up against the one I tested in 2008, and so am I. But first things first.
The gun became easier to cock as I conducted the velocity testing. Either that or I ate my spinach! So, I checked the scale again, and the cocking effort registers a mere 15 lbs.! You may recall that I was upset with the 18 lbs. I was getting in the first part. To the new reader who expressed incredulity that airguns need breaking in, this is the most dramatic example I have ever seen of what can happen! A reduction of lbs. of cocking effort is major.
It felt as though the trigger was getting lighter, as well, so I tested it again. In Part 1, it was breaking at 4 lbs. even. Now, it lets go at 3.5 lbs. This rifle has made a huge transformation in two important areas over the course of just a few dozen shots.
I decided to test the Lady Recon with the same pellets that were used in the black Recon test, so we would have a direct comparison. The first of those was Gamo Match.
Gamo Match
This wadcutter pellets weighs 7.5 grains of pure lead. In the black Recon, this pellet averaged 476 f.p.s. with a spread from 469 to 487. In the Lady Recon, the same pellet averaged 496 with a spread from 485 to 500. The average was 20 f.p.s. faster, and the spread was three f.p.s. tighter. The spec for the rifle is 525 f.p.s.
Crosman Premier 7.9-grain pellets
The black Recon averaged 451 f.p.s. with Crosman Premier 7.9-grain pellets. The spread went from 443 to 466. The Lady Recon averaged 445 f.p.s. with a spread from 433 to 460. You might wonder why it was slower with this pellet when it was faster with the Gamo Match. I would attribute that to a slight variation in the barrels that favored the Premier in the Black Recon. The power level of these rifles is so low that small differences are going to be more obvious. And the Premiers are made from hard lead alloy that doesn’t have the lubricity of pure lead.
RWS Basic pellets
RWS Diabolo Basic pellets weigh just 7 grains even and are a good substitute for Hobbys in velocity tests. They’re a pure lead pellet, like the Gamo Match. The black Recon shot them an average of 500 f.p.s. with a spread from 489 to 509. The Lady Recon averaged 498 f.p.s. with a spread from 477 to 514.
The bottom line is that both rifles tested very close to each other. That demonstrates what I mean when I say they shot the same, only with different numbers. There isn’t enough difference to really matter. And if I tested either rifle again, the results would change a little.
The big changes in cocking effort and trigger pull between Part 1 and this report are something to ponder. Obviously, these spring rifles need a break-in period before they stabilize. I found that period to be 1,000 shots when I tested the Beeman R1, but the Beeman C1 actually kept changing past 3,000 rounds. Older Gamos used to require over 4,000 shots before they were broken in, but today’s crop is breaking in much sooner. The point is that you don’t stop testing your gun until it’s had a chance to wear in.
The next stop will be accuracy, and once again, we have the black Recon for comparison.
Good moening B.B.
Are you back home for awhile or still out filming? Bet the cats go nuts when you get back home.
Is the differance between the number of shots necessary to break in tha newer springers due to better manufactoring techniques like computer controlled machining or quality control?
Mr B.
Mr B.,
Tom is still in NY & won't return til late Wed/early Thurs.
Edith
Question for anyone who has a Recon (not in pink): Does it require the artillery hold, or is it low-powered enough to make that unnecessary?
I like the description, the price, and the look, but I don't want to mess with changing firing technique for only one gun.
My others are pneumatic and allow me to practice firearm shooting technique while enjoying airgunning.
PurcHawk
The Lady Recon may just be on Santa's list this year for my oldest daughter. Even if it's not the best out there, the marketing choice of the pink stock is a winner for a certain section of the market. I'll wait to see how B.B. concludes before deciding definitely.
off topic – Some time ago, when I was deciding which air rifle to buy, someone (sorry I don't remember who that was) recommended the 392 ACP. I had no idea what that was, but have since found it. It looks like an interesting alternative to PCP. The way I understand it, you pump it up 8 times at the beginning of your hunt/session and then only have to pump 3 times for each additional shot. It is advertised at the same power as the unmodified gun, so it's relatively powerful but not as much as the real PCP's on the market. Still at $300 and no requirement of filling equipment (other than me pumping 3 extra times which doesn't seem so bad) it seems like a good deal. Does anyone have experience with it?
Hello B.B.–Scott298 checking in, and as always tell mom I said Hi! I hope your new endevors with the video's are going well. I've been out of action for a while-in between work I have been trying to get the house sanded so I can paint it-and with my handicaps that's taking a lot longer than I thought. I still take the 350 out and make sure it's sighted in but haven't really had the time to sit down with her and enjoy putting a couple 100 rounds thru her at one time-Oh the good old days. I've been reading all the blogs on this sight and others and haven't heard a word on the 350 or any other big guns in the Diana line-are they going out of favor? Still enjoy reading your blogs and I still pick up your book and re read it-it's getting a little paper thin. Just wanted to drop you a line-let you know I'n still out here and still shooting when I get the chance-your friend, Scott
Hey BB, I remember what you said about the muddy optics, what amount of light did you have? I got a chance to try this out, and i thought the opics were good enough… i also thought the scope was a bit "funny," because i noticed that the objective lense was square…
ajvenom,
I had to remove your post. Since this is a commercial site for Pyramyd AIR, we will not allow links to our direct competitors. If you want to repost your comment without a link to them, please feel free to do so.
I would have checked with Tom on this before deleting, but he's in the middle of filming the TV show and turns off his phone so it doesn't ring while taping. When I've deleted such messages in the past and told him about it after the fact, he's told me that he would have done the same.
If you do not have your comment copied elsewhere to repost, please email me through the podcast email link & I will send it to you.
Thanks for understanding Pyramyd Air's stance on this.
Edith
ajvenom & Mrs. Gaylord,
I've made the same mistake in the past and had my hand slapped. Mentioning other sources seems to be ok but NO LINKS to competitors sites. Since I thought ajvenom offered a lot of good information I've tried to edit and repost for him.
Hope ajvenoms post, that I've edited, is ok but if not feel free to delete. Here it is, ajvenom said:
someday we're going to have to list all the tech writers for airgun forums and online shops.
The 392 acp is still sold at AOA, 5initial pumps then 2 to 4 after to keep it going. Developed by Steve Woodward. I wonder what Jock is upto? He lives it upstate NY. Wouldn't that be funny if BB ran into him.
Skyler's PSP I belive is a high pumping (14 or so) 20 ftlbs air gun. I think Skyler may be closing up shop.
There was a as392 or 392T or AS392T air source benji getting about 620 fps. Not sure if they are the same, but they also had a 500 fps setting for targets.
PA had a special pump assist benji 392. It was easier to pump becasue it had even effort in each pump instead of increasing effort.
/blog/2007/12/the-pump-assist-benjamin-392-part-4/
for a steriod 392 mac 1 does a pretty good job. Takes 14 pumps but it's built to take the punishment and gets around 20 ftlbs.
I suppose it a depends on your needs. Hunting 8 to 10 pumps ok, but for targets and plinking 3 is much better. As for power, 14 ftlbs in .22 works well.
Posted by ajvenom to Air guns – Pyramyd AIR Report at August 04, 2009 10:57 AM
Fused, with regards to the 3 additional pumps before each shot, I think a good single stroke that offers 12 fpe would be the best option! There are very few, or almost none but I feel a single stroke is brilliant and a gap in the market waiting to be filled. Shoots like a PCP without the hassle of a PCP!
Also, BB, what is the advertised velocity of the Lady Recon. Just want to know how much have Gamo exaggerated
Kevin,
Thanks for reposting the comment. You're right, there's a lot of good info in ajvenom's post, & it deserves to be there.
Edith
Regarding single-stroke pneumatics powerful enough for hunting, B.B. did a report once on the Parker Hale Dragon that fit the bill. It was 11 ft-lb rather than 12 using the tested pellet.
/blog/2008/7/parker-hale-dragon/
Nice looking gun, but I'm not sure if it would be very handy in the field. Who knows if it could be refined to fit your needs, though.
A single stroke pneumatic making 12 ft/lbs or more would be great. Wonder if anything like that is in the works? Didn't sound like one of the hints that B.B. left us last week though.
As far as links and competitors go, I agree with Edith's sentiment and refrain from mentioning other sites directly, even if PA doesn't sell what I'm asking about. I would like to say that this blog is a great resource and PA has earned my business by hosting it. I feel a great sense of obligation to support PA through regular purchases because I have learned and enjoyed so much about airgunning because of this blog. So at least for me, no need for PA to worry about losing my business from following links.
Fused, SSP's and MSP's tend to be a fair bit less efficient than springers especially when it comes to higher power levels. Think of the muscular effort required to pump up a Daisy 880 to full power compared to a single pump of the RWS92. And the 92 probably has a bit more power.
So a 12ft-lb SSP is gonna make cocking your 94 feel like a toy…
Fused,
We used to have a Daystate multi-pump. I couldn't even put the first pump in. Most guys couldn't do it, either. Tom was able to put in 3 pumps (which I think is all it took). I believe the second pump took around 70 lbs. of effort & the third took around 100 lbs.
The end of the pump handle had a hole that snapped into a connector to hold it snug while shooting/handling. That connector was a pointed spike. It had as much potential for damage to the shooter during pumping as it did to the critters during shooting!
Edith
Volvo,
I already added a .177 Diana 27 to my watch list… hope it's not that one:)… ..
but just in case.. I'll not bid since I have two others Vince fixed up for me in .22 cal.. I was just thinking of another one in .177 would round out the collection.. but no biggy…
.. besides.. now I'm buying ammo for the "JUDGE" (got the a stainless steel 6-1/2" barrel, but only could find it in the 2-1/2" chamber, but that should work for me)
… so she (the 27, if that's the one) is all "urine" ….
. just don't do it in the corner please:) or Edith will kick us both out!
Wacky Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Good points, all. Guess you can't have everything!
VinceB, by the way, it still looks like that 92 likes to be held way out at the end of the stock. I've tried all different ways to hold it (on palm of hand, on top of hand, back of hand, without hand) as well as all different hand locations and consistently get the best groups way out at the end with it resting in a not completely relaxed hand (i.e. I'm actually gripping the stock slightly.) My smallest group is still 1/2" which I've managed a few times. Drives me nuts because I can get 3 of five in a really nice group but 2 are always stretching it way out! Gamo Hunters are still tighter than CPHP's. Maybe I'll try another pellet as well.
Trying out my google blog name..
I thought I set it up as "Wacky Wayne" .. but it didn't come out that way.. oh well..
Wayne, you can change it by editing your account. Click on the Blogger button on the right, sign in on the link, and go to edit profile. Then scroll down to identity and change your display name. That's how I switched from Kiwi90 to Jake.
WV: Flart
Fused, I'm fartin' around with an Xisico B25s right now (Chinese clone of a Panther) and it was driving me nuts. Wouldn't group worth a darn for more than 3 shots.
Finally discovered that if I rest it – without my hand – near the front stock screws the 10 yard groups shrink to about 1/4" – which is about the best I can reliably do with any springer.
Okay, so I placed my order today for the Nightstalker. The order went to my dealer here in Canada as there is just to much hassle shipping cross border.
However, to give Pyramid some business (and keep b.b. employed) can someone recommend a good sight for it…either Red Dot or optical that Pyramid sells.
My dealer tells me (and reviews seem to confirm) that a lot of sights don't work because of the height of the stock front sight.
Thanks, CowBoyStar Dad
I have hopes of transitioning off the table once I figure out the hold points, so hopefully it won't turn out to be one that likes to be rested.
C*D,
If you get the UTG 1" sight (/product/leapers-golden-image-red-green-dot-sight-1-tube-weaver-11mm-dovetail?a=1234)
it mounts using scope rings, so if it's too low, you can always pick up an inexpensive pair of high-mount rings.
Hi, Can anyone tell me the best weight paper to use for targets for a daisy 953 to get clean holes with a wadcutter pellet? I have tried 50 lbs and not much luck. Thanks Bassman
Bassman,
someone on this Blog had suggested some time ago to put a strip of masking tape behind the target to get the clean holes associated with regular target paper when using computer printout paper.
Fred
Thanks for reposting without the link. Any more questions about the 392 ACP talk to Steve in NC at the yellow forum.
Perhaps they're a little expensive and may fade away for those who don't do their own mods or send away for custom work.
BB,
Seems similar to my 490, cosmetics and trigger aside. It seems odd the "black recon" has no open sights and a really sad scope. I guess the girls will soon be out-shooting the boys, if they don't already:). Eager to see the accuracy test.
All,
The identity heists opened my eyes to what google & blogger have available. It is possible for someone to use the same "nickname" or screen name, but the "B" icon and profile associated with your screen name gives a little authentication.
Bassman,
I tried printing my own targets on a variety of papers to punch clean holes with wadcutters shot out of a diana 27.
Finally ended up printing on regular bond paper and placing duct tape behind the bullseyes. Results are very clean holes.
kevin
Kevin & Fred, Thanks for the tip I will give it a try. Bassman
Fused,
The 392 doesn't work the way you described. It dumps all its air with every shot. There is no sustaining charge
I'm not familiar with the 392 ACP, so you may know something I don't.
B.B.
Scott,
I did review the RWS 460 Magnum some time back. And I did a special tuneup on an RWS 34. So I have been looking at their magnum guns, just not the 350.
Good to hear from you again.
B.B.
Alexander,
I'm sorry, but I don't know what you are referring to.
B.B.
Target Paper,
If you're that picky about clean holes spend a couple dollars for a hundred real targets. I think you can buy blank target paper to run through your printer.
Wayne,
Shot some more Kodiak heavies today through my Disco… first time in over a month. Sweet… nice 1/2" groups at 30-yards.
Thanks for the tip on those pellets.
DB
The 392 ACP is a very cool concept. There is some good info on about it, as Ajvenom said, on the yellow forum.
It does not dump all the air on every shot. Some is saved so you only have to put back a few pumps to get back to full power.
You could even take a second shot… but at reduced power. Must have some valve work included in the mod.
DB
Clean Holes..
Duct Tape works great… but then you've got to buy it and throw it away..
I've had great luck with ..
• A.G.E. Impact Putty (5 lbs) …
I've added 15 lbs extra to the quiet trap to get over 3" thick. That will take .22 rimfire..
But anyway.. if you rough up the surface of the stuff … I use a block of 2×6 scrap lumber, then the used copy paper targets I print out on the back side, stick to the clay stuff without tape and the holes are very, very clean! ..
You have to put the whole thing on the floor and stand on the 2×6 block now and then to flatten it out and fill in the holes..
The 8×10 copy paper is smaller than the "quiet trap" so you can move it around away from the last holes you made…
..and of course we all make one hole groups… so this trick is important!!!
Wacky Wayne
Ashland Air Rifle Range
That's okay BB, i meant in your original Gamo Recon review, you said the scope it came with had muddy optics, but i would like to know what light conditions you were in, because i was at Bass Pro, and the optics seemed "good enough" in my opinion for the casual plinker. At the isle where you could hold pneumatic weapons, it was very bright, so maybe thats why they seemed okay…
DB,
Over 50 yards, some of our guns do best with the kodiak, and some with CPH or JSB heavy…
I find this in .22 cal and .177cal..
..but usually it's one of those three, and since I've been washing the CPH with rubbing alcohol, and then covering them in coconut oil..
NOW, NOT ONE BLACK FINGER!! and..
I've not had to clean my barrels because of loss of accuracy..
..so the CPH get used more often now.
Wacky Wayne
Wayne,
It is not a Diana 27, so bid away. I have a bunch of 2 ½ .410 slug ammo I don’t need since I sold my 9410. You are welcome to it – on the house. Anyone know of any shipping restrictions?
Bg Farmer,
I will forgive you for assuming a square lot, but road frontage is very sought-after so my lot is a rectangle, a tad over 190’ deep. Obviously you have never had pristine woodlands or family farms clear cut and subdivided for glorious tract housing.
The lucky PCP fits me well along with filling all my requirements, but may not be ideal for everyone. The Springer is based on what I think it will be, and hopefully I am right.
I made some seemingly fancy shots with my Winchester 9410, so I would suspect that the same would be possible with the Judge.
Volvo
Volvo,
That makes sense. I would consider .25-06 if there's any wind:). I unfortunately know quite a bit more than I would like about development, but I'm fighting the future — or trying to ignore it, at least:).
I'm guessing your PCP is still the FX Cyclone — don't worry I would research the joy out of any acquisition on my own, so you won't be prejudicing my choice:).
I recently shipped some ammo back to the manufacturer, so I know a bit about the process. USPS will not ship ammo. UPS will ship but ground only and only from authorized locations, in my case a hub in the "big city". They need you to mark the package "ORM-D" or something like that, but assuming you're in the right place, they'll tell you what to do. FedEx can ship it, but they said its prohibitively expensive (they mostly use air).
Bg farmer,
Like most you always suggest too much gun – certainly a .243 would suffice when Winnie the Pooh has apprehension over a blustery day.
Sorry to hear you have development concerns around you. With the current market that is a rarity.
Yes, you are correct in the FX Cyclone guess. She is the belle of the ball for me.
Wayne, sounds like shipping ammo may not be as easy as I hoped, so I guess I will renege on my offer.
Volvo
Wacky Wayne,
Okay, it's time we did something formal about this coconut oil thing.
Can you write me an email that contains just the best of what you have discovered about using coconut oil on pellets? I don't need to know all the failed experiments or blind alleys, unless you think they need to be in the instructions.
I will select a gun or guns and a pellet or pellets and conduct a test of the results.
B.B.
Alexander,
Thanks.
Yes, lighting makes all the difference in the world in optics. When I made that comment about the muddy optics, I was referring to looking into situation where there is less light. The image was hazy, which I am calling muddy.
Your square objective lens comment made me remember the test for plastic lenses, as opposed to glass lenses, in binoculars. When you look through the objective end of binos, those with plastic lenses will give an image that has straight edges to it instead of a round picture. Sort of a "stop sign" shape. Glass lenses will always look round. Or at least that is what I was taught by a binocular collector.
One last comment. I try to avoid using the word "weapon" when referring to any airgun–even one that is clearly powerful enough to qualify. New shooters get strange ideas in their heads, not the least of which is you can use an airgun to "scare" a criminal. Since that is more dangerous than just rolling over, I try to keep from giving them that thought by the language I use.
A weapon is something to use for offensive purposes.
B.B.
An Email from Steve Woodward aka Steve in NC in the yellow forum:
AJ,
Thanks for the interest. (Deleted by AJ)is the exclusive retailer of my ACP Benji's. As I(a) rule, I don't do private-party mod's, mostly because the condition of the guns folks send is unpredictable.
However, Scot Laughlin (scot-laughlin@comcas.net) does do custom ACP conversions.
Steve
———————————
From Jock Elliot on Steve:
Steve devised a “Butterfly hammer debounce device” (HDD) which prevents the hammer from bouncing and releasing more air. With some air still retained in the gun this means (A) the report is quieter and (B) you can use that retained air to reduce the number of pumping strokes needed for your next shot. To make everything work better, Steve also changes out some of the factory valve parts with some valve parts from the Benjamin AS392, reduces the pump headspace, and takes some coils off the hammerspring. (There is a lot more to it than this brief description allows – a total of about 20 modifications and new parts are needed to convert 392 to ACP392. Steve also installs one of his trigger Supersears to make the trigger smoother, lighter, and much less creepy.
———————————–
Perhaps someday we'll see this technology on new MSP airguns from the manufactures.
lol!!!!
I tried the plastic lense test on a pair of binoculars and all I saw was my dog looking up at me with a silly grin on his face as to say…."yes look at me stupid…look at me!!!"
Oh, ok. Thanks B.B. I enjoy your blog
Fred&Kevin the masking tape worked well. When you reduce a 10 meter target by 1/3 neat holes help. DB sorry to be so picky it will not happen again. I will take my questions elsewhere. Bye Bassman
Bassman,
I'm glad the masking tape worked for you. My holes were cleaner and the tape stuck better using duct tape but if the masking tape works for you you're better off since it's typically cheaper.
Please don't be put off by one errant comment.
We need the input from passionate airgunners like you. Please continue to offer your insight in the comments under the most recent article that B.B. has written (B.B. writes a new article everyday, Monday-Friday).
kevin
Bassman,
Don't judge us all by the comment of one person. I'm seconding Kevin's comment to you–stick around please.
Mr B.
Kevin,
I've see the ball flask gun now! Good-looking English gun for a good price.
B.B.
B.B.,
Good price eh? Reason #32 I'm not an airgun collector. Wow.
kevin