by B.B. Pelletier
I’m home! I dictated this blog to Edith on my last afternoon in the hospital.
A special note from Edith: Thank you to everyone for your unending support, kindness, caring and love. Tom and I are very deeply touched. Tom’s return home was delayed, but we finally got back around 6:30 pm. The cats ran around in excitement as he moved around the house. Tom had a small dinner (per his specific request–half a low-fat beef hotdog and 3 fresh strawberries), and he told me it was the best meal he’s eaten since he left 16 days ago. Well, that was easy. While I’m a pretty good cook, it looks like I won’t have to try so hard from now on!
Now, on to today’s blog.
The title alone must come as a surprise to some of you. All along I’ve been referring to this pellet as the .25 cal. Premier. Indeed, it IS based on the Crosman Premier but will be marketed as a Benjamin pellet only. So, in the great line of Crosman Premiers, we must make a parenthetical note that the .25 caliber is called a Benjamin.
This makes sense because all the guns Crosman makes in that caliber are the Benjamin brand. It’s not a big deal, but you need to get your terms straight, as do I.
The .25 cal. pellet is as old as the .177 and .22. Perhaps, the .22 is a little older than the others, but you have to get into esoteric shapes, such as cat slugs (solid lead bullets with felt bottoms), before that even takes effect. So, for all intents and purposes, the .25 is just as old. But, it was only as popular as the other two in the early 1900s. After about 1914, .22 and .177 calibers took off, leaving the .25 cal. in the dust…until now.
From the beginning, the .25 cal. pellet was always viewed as a bulldozer. It never had the precision of the other two smaller calibers, and there was no real reason to give it that precision. Velocities of the early .25 guns, and I’m speaking mainly about BSA rifles, were never high. Three hundred feet per second was considered adequate. Of course, at the same time, .177 might be doing only 550. The need for precision and accuracy at great range was not there. Consequently, you can view early .25 cal. pellets as lead slugs with very little precision. I may get criticism from some advanced collectors for saying that–and I welcome it if they will just provide the substantiation for their assertions.
Twenty-five-caliber rifles continued to be made after 1914, but they were always an appendage to something greater. For example, the Webley Mark II service rifle came with all 3 calibers. When you look at the pellets you could buy for the .25, it probably wasn’t worth installing the barrel. Twenty-five caliber pistols came along later with the same ammunition problems.
In the 1970s, the airgun horsepower races began; and, before long, .177 surged ahead of .22. It wasn’t due just to speed that this happened. It also was impacted by the much finer target guns being produced in Europe for .177 caliber only. By the end of the 1970s, there were no formal target matches being shot anywhere with anything but .177.
The .25 cal. soldiered on, but with vastly inferior sales of the .22 and completely out of the running compared to the .177. This must be one of the heartbreaks that Dr. Robert Beeman suffered when he tried to promote the .20 caliber by himself. There just simply were no adequate pellets to go with the fine guns he was having built.
Down to today
What I’ve given you in the few paragraphs above is a very condensed outline of the history of the development of pellets. There’s certainly far more that could be said about all of this, but I don’t feel that this report is the right place for it.
We’re here to examine the performance of a new .25 cal. pellet, and one that I have high hopes will change the future of .25 cal. airgunning. Behind my desk stands a storage cabinet filled with different pellets, including those made in .25 cal. A recent gift from derrick38 and Frank B., both readers of this blog, has expanded my selection greatly. And, in all of that, I can tell you that there isn’t one true premium .25 cal. pellet. We’re faced, instead, with using the best we can find, which I have found to be the H&N Baracuda/Beeman Kodiak (the manufacturers list them at different weights, and I can’t explain that). Ten years ago, when RWS USA was importing .25 cal. airguns, they brought in a beautiful 20.1-grain pellet called the Diana Magnum. While this pellet was available, it was celebrated by .25 cal. shooters around the world. When RWS USA stopped buying Diana guns in that caliber, they saw no future need for the pellet.
This brings us to the here and now. I’m going to test the new Benjamin .25 in as many ways as I can think of. If I had gold-standard pellets against which I could test them, I would do so, but you understand why that isn’t the case.
The new .25 caliber pellets from Crosman will bear the Benjamin brand name.
Let’s look at the pellet
The Benjamin pellet is, without a doubt, a Crosman Premier by another name. I didn’t make that up; Ed Schultz at Crosman told me that he took their best ballistic coefficient Premier, which ironically turned out to be the .20 cal., and stretched it out to .25. But is it a .25?
The new pellet has a nominal diameter of 6.4mm. Since .25 cal. pellets have varied so widely over the years, I can’t really fit this fact into the broader lexicon of .25 pellets. But, around the world, .25 cal. is accepted as 6.35mm. So, this one should be bigger.
The reason I say “should be” is because companies like Milbro put out many types of .25 pellets that may have all said 6.35mm on the tin but may have been anything but that. See how hard it is to discuss this pellet? I’ll give you exact measurements in part 2.
We weighed 10 pellets to determine their average weight.
I weighed 10 sample pellets and came up with an average of 27.77 grains. The range was from 27.5 to 28.0. Before you start criticizing, do some math and extrapolate back to .177 caliber. You’ll find the best pellets falling into similar weight ranges when the size is properly scaled down.
The new pellets come 200 to a very large tin with a screw top. That screw top is a feature all by itself. Nothing worse than an open tin of pellets in your range bag, and these tins will prevent that.
My plan is to test the heck out of this pellet, because it’s more important than any new airgun. This is a radial bias ply tire that can take your existing automobile and change its performance. I have a .25 Marauder with which I’ll conduct comparative testing. I also have a Whiscombe, and I doubt that there are any better .25 springers on the market!
One final thing is that I don’t mean to denigrate the other new .25 cal. pellets by gushing over this one. This is just where I started. I know there’s already a new.25 RWS Superdome as well as three new .25 pellets coming from Gamo…and I may have forgotten one or two. Keeping things together in a tidy package, this report is only about the Benjamin .25 caliber pellet.
92 thoughts on “.25 caliber Benjamin pellet – Part 1”
Good Morning B.B.,
Three strawberries and not four? You're a better man than most, cause we'd probably do a hand full.
Part 2 is going to be a 2fer test since we'll see how accurate the Maurauder is in .25. Can hardly wait!
Good to have you back.
Having a good and caring wife during times like that is priceless. I could not have made it through the last year without mine.
I am surprised that you chose to eat so little . When I got out of the hospital last summer I went nuts on food. Half an apple pie was just a between meal snack.
Great to have you back and I am looking forward to meeting you at the Arkansas airgun show this month.
Do you know when PA will have the new .25 Premiers in stock? I really want to test them.
The JSB Exact King is very accurate in my Patriot; even better than the Kodiak in that gun. Hope you will also test those in the .25 MRod.
Paul in Liberty County
Welcome Home BB.
The first rifle which wasn't a toy I ever saw and fired,was the BSA Meteor .177 that my dad bought back in the early 70s.
At the time only being about age 6to me,the rifle was both heavy and big.
When a few years later I held and fired a .22.
The rifle and pellets seemed huge by comparison.
You can imagine what I thought when I first saw a .25 pellet.
I have not seen many .25 air rifles on the market.
I imagine because of our 12foot/pounds limit a .25 is just too heavy for the limited power.
All the best to you and your good lady wife,
BB,it is very very good to have you back! You mean to tell me you have Edith AND a Whiscombe?Luckeee! Right now I am considering trying radials on my car….thanks for the reminder:)
BB & Edith,
Pcp4me here. Yep blog thingie is mucked up again.
Wow great to see Tom is home! Best news in the world! But with half a hot dog and 3 strawberries it will take a long time for him to regain his strength.
I am happy for you and Edith and pray for your continued recovery.
I'm glad you are feeling better and back home. My brother had is gallbladder removed many years ago and it changed his diet considerably… for the better I might add 🙂
I wish you and Edith many more happy years together.
BB, Edith & to all,
I'm sorry about lastnight's post, it was very irresponsible. I'm cycling bad right now (manic-depressive, etc.). I've decided to refrain from any further post for a few days. I'll still be reading though. Those who have my email I'm still here.
Paul in Liberty County,
Don't have an exact date when the .25 Benjy pellets will be in stock, but I'll try to get that for you.
Tom & Edith,
Forgive me, but I must have missed something, or am as confused as Tom was when he enjoyed his sponge bath: The last I heard you (Edith) said Tom's gall bladder was swollen, and its removal needed to wait until that swelling came down. In the meantime, he had pancreatitis. So… what happened? Pancreas okay and gall bladder is now out? Or the GB is still slated to be removed now that he's okay again? I hope all medical adventures are now behind him for a very long time to come.
BB: Good to see you are home and getting better! On the .25 pellets, I have a request. When you get to testing these in the Maurauder, please also test the JSB kings as mentioned by Paul above, and also some round ball, like buckshot. Not just the .25 rounds in the tins. Take care ,Robert
Welcome back home and better health to you. Question? Does Pyramyd air sell the Gamo Shadow express or is the gun being phased out by gamo?
Welcome Home Tom!
Your stomach shrunk.. 16 days in hell will do that.
I am so glad your in Edith's care now.
I am very glad your home safe.
Praise the lord and pass the veggies..
On PA's website, the only .25 air rifle that attracted my attention besides the Marauder is the Weihrauch HW90 with gas spring. The description of its performance in this caliber is copied verbatim from the .22, which seems a mistake, because a 27.8 gr. pellet at 725 fps yields 32.4 ft-lbs at the muzzle, not 20.8. In fact, the specs for the .22 seem off as well, since a 14.3 gr. CP or JSB at 860 fps gives 23.5 ft-lbs. Or are these specs from featherweight pellets?
May I ask your opinion of this rifle, in .22 and .25 caliber?
AlanL & anyone else who wants a timeline of events…
Here's what has happened & what will happen:
1. They anesthetized Tom, snaked a tube (endoscope) down his throat to his bile ducts & removed several stuck gallstones. They put a stent in one of his ducts.
2. Tom didn't wake up when they turned off the gas. They had to keep him on a ventilator, sedated & on morphine for 5 days til they could get him to wake up without throwing nurses around the room (that's my guy 🙂
3. His white cell count was 9x normal when he was admitted to the hospital. The day he was released, it was 2x normal. I still don't understand why the doctor repeatedly told me everything shows up normal for Tom if his white cell count is 2x normal.
4. The high white cell count means his pancreas is still fighting infection from the gallstones that had passed through it and that were trying to pass through to it. This is also the reason his gallbladder was not removed…he had an infection.
5. On 4/21, Tom will get another blood test. If his white cell count is okay, then we can plan to have the stent removed. If it's not okay, then we'll have to wait before having the stent removed. The stent removal is an outpatient procedure…but he'll be under–and on a ventilator, again–for an hour. The doctor seriously doubts we'll have a similar problem of him not waking up from the anesthesia. I'm in a wait-and-see mode on that last tidbit!
6. The final procedure is to have his gallbladder removed. Again, it's an outpatient procedure and he'll be anesthetized again and on a ventilator again. We've been assured, again, that there's little chance he'll have the same problems waking up. Wait-and-see for me. The doctor thinks this should happen in about a month.
7. Tom's right lung is still slightly collapsed but at least not getting worse. I've always known that Tom had a huge volume of air (maybe hot air 🙂 coming & going through his lungs. When the hospital tested his capacity and oxygen use, it was 100% normal…and that was with 10% of one lung deflated. It'll re-inflate gradually by itself, but he's not going to the NRA Annual Meetings because it's not a good idea to fly within 2 weeks of having a collapsed lung. We're not taking any chances & have cancelled his reservations.
The timeframes for the stent & gallbladder removal procedures were not discussed with me. I wasn't there when this info was relayed to Tom. So, I'm assuming all this is accurate and that Sundowner's Syndrome was no longer dictating Tom's memory or his recall of conversations 🙂
More info than you wanted, but I thought I'd just put all of it out there for anyone who wants all the details.
The description for the HW90 came from info provided by the HW catalog and the Beeman catalog.
Welcome back B.B.,
Question on pellets. After my latest springer breakdown, I focused on the Disco and on trying a variety of pellets on it. As I mentioned earlier, I was not getting good results with it. The test showed that the lighter the pellets the worse the results. I got frequent 3-inch flyers at 13 yds, which were not my fault, with 7-8 gr pellets.
So far the Premier heavy is the best pellet, but it is still not good. Question is, before I go and order all pellets from PA, is there any pellet as heavy or heavier than the CP that jumps out at any of you as a candidate I should try first. How about the Benjamin hollow point pellets?
Follow up on my last post:
My Disco is .177 !!!! sorry, forgot that little detail
You're a lucky man. Not just because you made it through a significant health crisis. And not just because you have a loving wife who took care of you. And not just because you have many people on this blog that care so much for you. And not just because you love your job so much that you chose to work even while in the hospital. But when you put all of those things together, you are indeed a very lucky man.
Thanks for the comprehensive update. I am very sorry that Tom has to be put under again– twice! I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say we wish him all the very best in the trying weeks to come.
Welcome back BB. We missed you.
Welcome back Tom!!!!
Hope you're doing fine.
A lot has changed since you were gone. We no longer use airguns anymore…..lol!!!!!
Dave in the UK and Alan : I don't have much experience with .25 airguns , but I do with the .22 in 12 ft/lb guns. Even with low velocity and trajectory, compared with the .177, I find the slower, fatter pellet to be more useful for shorter range pesting.
Most if not all, of the squirrels I shoot with the .22. will not have the pellet exit the target. The ones with the .177 nearly always will. Huge advantage when inside a building or in settled areas.
Another thing I've noticed under field conditions, is the effect of the wind on the lighter pellets. It is always windy, and almost always cold where I live. The .22 JSB's jumbos even with only four pumps in my Benjamin LE ( about 8.5 ft/lbs), will drift less than JSB exacts will in my (HW- 85) R-10 at 25 yards, at around 15 ft/lbs. So, if you can live with the loppy trajectory, the larger calibers, in my opinion, have some practical field use advantages. I think even the .25 in a springer, which at best will only probably make 19 ft/lbs, will be useful for hunting. The only thing wrong with the .25 has been the availability of good pellets. The problem in springer rifles as far as power is concerned ,is the lack of volume of the compression chamber, and lack of stroke. Most springers in .22 , when made into .25 , simply do not have the volume to make more velocity with the heavier.25 pellets ,than they do with the .22.Don't be fooled by this though , as paper numbers do not always translate into field performance. Robert
The other day, someone had asked if it was safe to leave their firearm loaded in a car in Texas as they weren't allowed to bring it in with them during work.
As a rough guide, a primer using lead azide or lead styphnate has an ignition temperature of 478 deg F. Use this as a rough guide as obviously different manufacturers will have slightly different compounds which should affect this. Smokeless powder seems to have an ignition temperature of around 300 deg F. Again, different compounds and even the shapes of the granules will affect this. So, using a safety factor of say 2x's, does the inside of your car ever get above 150 deg?
Herb, you're the chemical guy here, please correct me if I'm out of line.
Good to have you back. Sometimes a hot dog just can't be beat. What happened to the other half?? Edith?
Interesting pellet, can't wait for part 2.
The other half of the hotdog was not heated and remains in the container. I'm sure it'll become a meal some other time 🙂
Thanks for the update. It wasn't more than I wanted to know.
I can think about air guns again….
In between my angry thoughts for the hospital…
It seems to me the Koreans will benefit most from the new accurate .25 cal pellets (if they are accurate)..
They are making some fine PCPs at very affordable prices. More of their guns will sell when an accurate .25 cal pellets are available. The Evanix line in particular.
Getting a .28 gr pellet going the perfect (in my opinion) 900fps is not going to be easy in the Marauder is it?.. I don't know, just comparing the foot lbs of the .22 cal.
I see that the Evanix Rainstorm is now in stock.. I should be getting mine any day now! It's says it's shooting 28 gr. .22 cal at 860fps for 46 ft lbs! and it's "low-med noise" level.
Will that gun come out in .25 cal?
Wacky Wayne, MD. Ashland Air Rifle Range
BB – also want to chime in with a hearty "welcome home"! Edith, it's been my experience that cats love hotdogs. No mustard, however.
If you look at the HW90 ad, the pellet weight is not specified.
Usually an overly optimistic velocity figure is arrived at by using the lightest pellet available.
Try the lightest pellets at the advertised velocity figures and see what you come up with.
I'm so thankful that you're home.
Does anyone know the approximate date that the quality of Crosman Premiers supposedly went south? Or was it a gradual slide?
It seems that the ridiculously expensive CPs I have seen on the Yellow are from 2006 or so.
I recently received an order from PA of 4 boxes of CPL in .177 and they are from lot A or Die A or whatever the huge A means, with a manufacture date of May 2009. This makes them even older than the CPLs I purchased from PA in August of 2009. I have only shot a few of these pellets that fell out of the box in shipping.
They seem to be even better than the previous batch I received.
Premiers work best for me in all of my rifles, of the pellets I have tried.
Don't know why I am so concerned, since I am more than happy with the relatively recent manufactured ones, but I wanted to know all the facts behind the rumor.
Please tell me that the half of the hotdog that Tom ate was heated, otherwise you are not the cook you claim to be;^)
Tom and Edith's cats:
"The Boss is back! Look busy!!!"
He may not eat much now, but he seems to be chomping at the bit for another sponge bath. I thought this spring fever was only affecting Wayne, but it must extend into Alberta Canada.
I'm not Herb (and I hope he helps), but your analysis seems sound. I wanted to answer, but didn't have time to look up the ignition temperatures. I wouldn't doubt car interiors can top 150 occasionally, but the ignition point is a pretty rigid rule; there should be enough margin. I suspect the interior plastic would melt first. Still wouldn't leave my gun in the front window:).
I think the CO2 might actually be more dangerous in this case. A friend of mine left a disposable lighter in the change box on the dash of his car, and it burst, cracking the windshield. It did not "explode" in the Hollywood sense or burn in any way, though.
By the way, I do realize that lighters aren't filled with CO2:)! Just thought it was analogous.
there is probably not enough fuel in one of those lighters to explode in the Hollywood sense since you need to reach what is called a 'lower explosion limit" or LEL to have a explosive atmosphere (too lean). Probably what happened with the lighter is the fuel pressure exceeded the container's structural integrity and a seam or weak point in the case let go.
I have no idea what the safety margin is for a CO2 cartridge or powerlet.
I have shot 100 pellets or so from the boxes I just got from PA. sounds like the same lot.
I also weighed about 500 of them, and they vary about the same as what's left of the lot #8 I have…. which is from 10.25 to 10.75 with about 80% in the 10.45 to 10.55 groups.
They grouped just as well as the others which can be a 1/4" outside one hole with 10 and more pellets at a time at 20 yards indoors… on a good day outdoors I've made 5 shot 1/4" holes with them too at 50 yards!.. sitting FT… i just wish i could do it more often:-)
and very often this coming weekend.
Wacky Wayne, Match Director, Aslhand Air Rifle Range
Well Tom,I hate to rain on your parade,but there are indeed 2,TWO, other .25 cal. pellets that will provide more than adequate competition for the new Benji .25.Those would be the JSB Kings and the H&N FTT.Both of which are nothing less than premium grade,and no matter who says otherwise,experienced .25 shooters won't be so easily fooled by hyperbole surrounding the newcomer.
Thanks, that is what I was getting at — purely gas pressure did the damage in the case of that lighter, similar to what a CO2 cartridge might do if it were heated.
Pellets were washed and lubed with coconut oil.
and.. I should have also mentioned that is with USFT#6 which won the 2005 national Field Target Title in the hands of Billy Lo.
… results may vary according to your car and "driving" habits:-)
Wacky Wayne, MD. Ashland Air Rifle Range
Of course the half Tom ate was cooked. That's why I said the half he didn't eat wasn't cooked & was left in the package with the other dogs.
I would have fed the other half to the cats, but they're too good to eat hot dogs. They only like something if it's on a fork ready to go into our mouths. The minute you take it off the fork, it loses it's interest. Did I mention that our kitties are spoiled?
Proof once again of my contention that while dogs have families, cats have staff. You're staff to your kitties.
Welcome home. I'd say you must have dropped a bit of weight on your diet. But if this blog was dictated from a hospital bed then the crawling bugs can't be bothering you too much.
Slinging Lead, regarding the salty sci fi, it seems like the original Trekkers enjoyed doing that in their movie series like when McCoy called Spock a "green-blooded S.O.B." I guess it's all the stuff they wanted to say in the 60s but couldn't.
Can someone please identify the cute Vulcan chick who was mentioned some weeks ago? I'm stumped. The only one I can think of is Kirstie Alley (Lt. Saavik) from the first Star Trek movies, but I wouldn't describe her that way now. Note that this has to do with our thread on exotic Gypsy women. 🙂 Can't get more exotic than this… Did you know, by the way, that Romulan males find Vulcan females, extremely attractive?
Thank you for your reply and you have reinforced what I am beggining to learn.
So concerned was I with Power I was asking the wrong questions.
A 12foot/pound .22 springer kept in good condition is indeed a respectable air rifle.
More than enough for me and where I live certainly.
Thanks for the reply.
Are lots sometimes assigned letters, and other times numbers? I'm confused. (I should get a nametag, "Hello, I'm….Confused")
Coincidentally, in the same box as the Premiers came a Leapers Golden Image scope which I purchased based on your recommendation. It is the perfect complement to my (wife's) Disco in .177, and quite a steal at that price.
Have you ever looked up coconut oil on Wikipedia? They use that stuff for everything. They put it in electrical transformers.
Since nobody's sure about the answer to my question about the CO2 powerlets in a hot car, I asked Crosman directly. I'll let you know as soon as I hear back from them.
Surely you knew I was joking! It is a given that the perfect woman knows how to cook.
My 2 cats will run inside when I open the door, immediately use the litterbox, then run to the door and demand to be let back outside. What JERKS.
I forgot to post this about bullets
in a car a doubt it gets hot enough
Now that's what we wanted to hear. TOM IS BACK!!!!
I'm surprised you didn't hallucinate shooting the "bugs" with alien air rifles. I wonder what they use for powerplants?
Glad you're back BB. I hear a collective 10,000 sigh of relief.
If .25 is acceptable for field target I predict an eventual demise in the .22. Don't see the need for hunting with .22 if .25 can do the job better or at least as well. Can anyone else think of a reason to keep using .22 if .25 works as well as planned?
You know I got to thinking…when Tom was in the hospital hallucinating he actually thought things were real at that time. Now I'm wondering if I'm really lying in a hospital hallucinating about Tom hallucinating…
Unfortunately, you don't have to be a cuban communist thug to enjoy unimaginable acts of cruelty. I have seen similar behavior from my own countrymen unfortunately.
That sounds about the speed of Che and is ilk though. It would not surprise me to learn Ernesto himself engaged in such acts.
"People who enjoy abusing animals rarely stop there."
More unfortunately, I feel I cannot be shocked at this point. Disgusted yes, shocked no.
Re: .22 vs .25
Did you go scuba diving again? Seems like you were gone for awhile.
UPDATE on CO2 Cartridges in the heat:
I got an answer from Crosman. They were very uncomfortable with my question and refused to give me a conclusive answer as to what temperature a full cartridge would blow at. What they were willing to say categorically is that the cartridges are tested to be safe up to 120 degrees F. This surprised me, since I expected to hear a higher temperature.
I guess the only way to really test this is to put them in a very secure oven with precise temperature control and test a few of them to the failure point.
One thing is for sure: DO NOT leave CO2 powerlets in a car in the sun!
AlanL and All
Re: Co2 Cartridges & Heat
A few years back, I tested some of these in a small refractory oven at work (brick lined steel plate oven).
My memory of the "burst" temperature was approximately 200 degrees F. We knew this only by the sound they made through a small vent hole on the side of the oven and in reference to the temp gage at the time of burst. More of a ping than a pop but that was probably the density of the brick and steel muffling the noise.
Also, we had two cartridges that did not burst, they did leak out all of the Co2 however, and the flange or seal was slightly disfigured at the crimp area. I'm guessing that this was thermal expansion at the seal area that let go, but not enough to let the cap or seal loose.
All of the burst cartridges let loose at the seal, not in the body of the tube or spherical radius at the end. The seals did make a nice ding in the brick lining, about what a .22 pellet would do to a brick at close range.
Not completely scientific proof but, something to consider.
Brian in Idaho
That's reassuring, since an accidentally forgotten cartridge in a car ought not to get up that high. Still, good of you to have tested that. I'm tempted to try it in my Weber gas grill– I'd have an excuse to replace it after that, but maybe that's not such a good idea.
Where can I get one of those foot cozies?
Of course I knew that. I'm 3/7ths Romulan. I like in The Voyage Home when they came back to Earth and back in time to the mid 1980s and Spock picks up cursing to blend in.
Kirk: "Spock can you…"
Spock: "Just a damn minute Captain."
Thanks for the tip the other day. Unfortunately the A/C is out in the house and I have a car in the garage that hasn't run in a year. New airgun purchases are VERBOTEN.
I am over my quota. Airguns and daily blog posts. Nighty night.
If you look at the label of an aeresol can you'll see a warning not to expose the can to temperatures higher than 120 deg. F. I did a further search on CO2 powerlets and Umarex and several other websites list maximum exposed temps for these cartridges at around 125 deg. F.
So, don't leave a CO2 powerlet in a car all day down in Florida or Texas. I don't think you'll have a problem with a loaded firearm in a car in Florida or Texas. But I have minimum insurance protection (pretty poor for an insurance professional) so if you follow my advise and something happens, too bad. You won't get any money from me if you sue. Also, I don't own any high pricd, collectible weapons so you can't go there either :).
I wish Crosman would come out with a 25 and 35 grain version of their .25 Cal. pellets. What do you guys think?
Look at it as a chance to perfect your skills with what you have without worrying about what you want to buy next. I think that often people look for new rifles to make up for a lack of discipline or imagination, anyway. For example, if you've wrung every last bit of precision from your rifle (most people don't), but you shoot it rested with a scope, there's always other positions and iron sights, or at least longer ranges.
RE exploding CO2 powerlets:
Back in high school my friend had a Crosman 140. It took a couple of tries but we were able to burst a powerlet by shooting it in the middle of the body with the 140 at the range of about an inch. It split open nicely and the boom was about as loud as mild shotgun round. Much louder than a 22 LR.
The things you will try when young…
Paul in Liberty County
Great news that you’re home, I am glad to hear your cats welcome you back from the Hospital. It is a wonderful feeling coming home.
You're irreplaceable. I have not seen any one as skillful as you are. Take it easy! I am very happy to see you back at home!
Thanks for helping me plan my break time tomorrow morning:).
Unfortunately no diving this time. It is a time when a father finds his life is not really his own. Son's 1998 supercharged Pontiac GTP head gasket corrodes through after 12yrs and 170,000 miles, dad has a garage, father son tear down said motor, replace head gaskets, father learns respect for son's ability and tenacity to do the job. We're not afraid of anything mechanical anymore.
Thank you, thank you , thank you. I've been excited about this new pellet for a while.
I have a Webley and Scott Stingray I bought when Pyramid was cleaning house on the British made models. It's .25 cal. and is the British legal limit of 12 foot pounds. It is hands down the best looking air rifle I own. The best pellet I had for it at the time was the W&S Mosquito domed pellets. I took it to work to show off. We shot leftover pumpkins from Halloween. It penetrated about 1 1/2 pumpkins when lined up side by side. When I got home that day, I picked off a tree rat from 20 yards with a head shot. It's a very fun rifle and easy to load the larger pellets.
The cat lying on my bed right beside me loves little bits of hot dogs, cheese, sandwich meat, spaghetti sause and various other things. If she wants to try what you are eating, she will tap you on the elbow. On The Firing Range forum of somethingawful.com, they refer to the cats that wonder into their gun photos as tacticats. Mine often wonder down to my shooting bench while I'm setting up.
My dad was selling loads of old stuff on ebay including the foot cozie.
For a laugh,and to see if someone would still bid for it.
The photo we included was of me,in an armchair,feet in the foot cozie and a newspaper over my face pretending to be asleep.
The cozie fetched a good price lol.
I just hope it wasn't a foot fetishist who bought it:(
My CO2 12gram cart. box says 120 degrees F max….
A car probably hits 120-140 or 150 on mythbusters one time. If they blow at 200 I'm sure they're pretty safe or we'd be seeing a lot news articles on them.
The microwave guys on had theirs lose CO2 with no explosion.
So I would bet a CO2 cart won't exhaust in a hot car….but as safety goes you could just put them in an ammo box or something safe just incase.
Anyone find an easy way to raise the front sight on a Bronco? Could it be shimmed?
Re your query on raising the front sight on the Bronco, may I add, "or lower the rear sight?"
I have the same problem with this gun!
Well maybe you guys want to hear about this,maybe you don't but here goes;Last night on the yellow I found a listing that had been up 48 hours with no takers.3 Quackenbush rifles on commisioned sale.A .308 and .25 rifles,one long and one carbine that came w/ a L.D.C.!I spent an hour fantasizing how I would never "need"anything else in life to be happy….I emailed an offer on not 1 but all 3!I could not sleep and woke up early with DAQ on the brain…Then I got an email that the offer was accepted.Next week I will be able to test .25 pellets from 28 grains up![way up]as these guns are set up for 70gr+!
If the CP box does not have a die lot on the bottom, they are from the new manufacturing process. The old machine took a single ball of lead and formed it into a pellet, the new machinery uses a lead ribbon and stamps it and takes all those little pieces and fuses them into a single pellet.
.25 caliber pellets,
I think that just like the late 1970 early 1980 Springer’s that made .22 caliber legitimate for long range, PCP’s will do the same thing for .25 caliber. CJr, that said, they will never replace .22 caliber due to lesser powered rifles. Also, there seems to be a dispute as to what size .25 caliber is. In my experience the UK rifles are closer to a 3 bore while the German made are actually closer to .25.
While not commonly available, H&N has always made some decent .25 caliber pellets. Webley Misquotes were my light weight favorites, while Milbro Rhinos are a disaster past 30 feet.
Tom and Edith,
Glad to hear things are returning to normal for you.
Good to have you back. I will pray the next few weeks will work out.
Did you think it would work out this way? That is a cool story, hope someday my kids will be able to do some things on their own. Good luck with your son and the head gasket.
RE: Temperature of cars in sunlight
40 degrees above ambient seems to be the limit.
It easily gets to 100 F. on some summer days here. 40 degrees above that is 140 F.
As I remember CO2 tuns into a supercritical fluid in the high 90s. Bad news for seals if CO2 powerlet is in the gun.
Don't think that the temperature would high enough to auto-ignite firearm ammo. However I would worry that cycling the ammo in that kind of heat would be detrimental to the ammo resulting in a misfire. You are carrying a gun to protect lives so shoot the "baked" ammo once in a while for target practice.
Congrats on your Quackenbushes– let's hope when you get them they roar and don't just quack in the bushes. Um… that was terrible. Sorry!
AlanL,I find you guilty of pun-ishing us with that one…:)
You have achieved the rank of Corporal PUNishment!
Bring them up and lets shoot some jugs full of water. I don't know about you, but that doesn't get old quickly, and those bad boys should make them pop:).
Saw all those DQ guns at the Findlay show. Very nice hardware.
Derrick,can you tell me who's table?Is it the man who ducked the camera?Just answer Y or N…
BGfarmer,start saving jugs…pop barely describes a .457 hollowpoint "aka flying shotglass" at 800 fps!!! With 4 DAQ's and a Condor,you can invite friends.We'll host our own "standing Stone".Clay pigeons explode like Necco wafers….
In your opinion you state there isn't a true premium pellet in .25, I must respectfully disagree. The H&N Barracuda and FTT (Beeman FTS & Kodiak) I certainly consider a premium pellet. I've had the misfortune of shooting the RWS Superdome in my .25 Kodiak and they're bloody awful! I'm glad to hear the JSB Exact King is getting positive reviews and hope the Benjamin pellets also pass muster.
What .25 shooters have lacked for a long time is the lack of choice in pellets, not quality (RWS notwithstanding) This has now been remedied. I hope you take the time to test all the different pellets in rifles other than the Marauder and Whiscombe. A Patriot, Walther Falcon Hunter or an HW90 wouldn't go amiss for review-there are probably more of these rifles in the hands of US airgunners than the Whiscombe!.
I confess I had my doubts about that job when we started but I'd seen my son in action before and he's done some pretty amazing things to the car that I never would have attempted. A couple years ago he got hit by a red light runner that tore off the front of the car and totaled it. He took the money from the insurance company and then bought the car back from them for a song and rebuilt the front end himself. It was then that I figured he had some kind of talent.
Typical, too, because before the head gasket blew he had just put another $300 into the car replacing shocks and tie rods, and one wheel bearing himself then paid a shop to realign the front end. He was commenting how good the car was running then the next day blew the head gasket.
When we got down to the gasket you could see how it had corroded a channel at one corner over the years before finally going all the way through. Fortunately he was only a couple blocks from home when it went.
I'm so very happy for you and your good fortune. LDC, really caught my attention. How well does it work, compaired to your Conder with its AirHog shroud?
How about accurracy?
I'll start drinking milk and 2-liter bottles of coke right now:). I'll be interested to see how the .25's shoot at longer ranges (for airguns) with the 70gr. pills.
Sounds like a good boy, and I'm glad he didn't warp the head or block; we weren't all so smart or lucky as teenagers:). Make sure he checks the antifreeze for oil and the oil for antifreeze religiously for a while, too.
I a gun of the power level of the HW90, my preference would be .22. And that's only because the power is more ideally suited to the lighter weight pellets.
Having said that, there are exceptions sometimes. A few years ago, BSA produced a Supersport Special in .25 cal. It got nearly 700 fps, which shouldn't have been possible. That gun was a smooth shooter in .25 and possibly was worth going to the larger caliber.
When I tested the Disco, it did well with Premier heavies. But I think that in .177 cal. it did its best with either JSB Exact heavies (10.3 gr) or with Beeman Kodiak/H&N Baracudas. In .22 cal., the Disco did perform best with Premiers.
Like you, I don't know what the Koreans (Evanix) will do in the future. But I do believe that if this new pellet is a good one, it's going to make a lot of existing rifles better. And I believe that, alone, will spark .25 cal. airgun development.
What I know is no more than a rumor on Crosman Premier pellet quality. I DO know this…Part of the company would like to see the cardboard boxes go away forever because they take longer to fill because of lot coordination. But another part of the company seems to realize that serious airgunners want extra work done on their ammo. I reckon you're gonna see a future that looks pretty much like the present, with both boxed Premiers and Premier-like pellets in tins. If they work in your guns, by all means shoot 'em.
Your info is EXACTLY what I was looking for! I may start a much larger series report on .25 cal. ammo just so that proper testing can be done on anything that's supposed to be accurate. Thank you!
Yeah, well, you posed a question that will never have an answer. There will be proponents of each caliber for all time to come. What I'm hoping is that the .25 cal proponents finally get what they deserve in terms of ammo quality.
AlanL & ajvenom,
As of this time, we don't have any Bronco parts in stock that you can order to raise or lower the front or rear sight, respectively. Of course, the optional Williams peep sight allows you a full range of motion, and that's what I have on my Bronco. I like it so much that I'm going to take it to the Little Rock airgun show in 2 weeks and let people see & shoot it.
To do the test that you suggest requires too much time for a guy like me. That would be testing all possible good pellets with all possible good guns, and there really would be no end to it.
What I hope to do is find indicators that suggest that one pellet or another is good in several guns. I know that not many people have a Whiscombe; but since I have one, I don't want to overlook it as a testbed.
I hope you can understand my need to constrain the size of this test. But there's nothing that keeps you from augmenting the test, running it the same way I do and submitting the results as a guest blog!
Thanks for your reply to my query about the HW90. I chanced to look back on this older blog and just happened to see it! Now you've got me tempted on that BSA…
It must be tiring for you to go back and attempt to catch up on all the questions you have missed while you were out.
Take it easy and relax– the important questions will get asked again, and you can tackle them then.
All the best,