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Using appropriate pellet guns

by B.B. Pelletier

Update on Tom/B.B.: Tom is doing better. New doctors have been put on his case, and they’re working aggressively to get him back to health. I visit him daily and can see positive changes in his attitude and how he looks!

B.B. wrote today’s blog. But, before we move on, I have two field target announcements.

Crosman Corporation is sponsoring the Northeast Field Target Championship to be held July 9-10 at Crosman’s headquarters in Bloomfield, New York. The club was founded by the father/son field target duo of Ray and Hans Apelles. Both men are exceptional shooters, so even if you don’t want to shoot in the match, this would be a great opportunity to see some of the top shooters do their thing. If you’d like to compete, Crosman has set up a website where you can register for the match. Airgun matches don’t usually get sponsored by anyone, so this shows that Crosman is serious about getting involved with shooters and field target. There will be five divisions, and prizes will be awarded for first, second and third place winners in each division.

The Air Arms MPR Field Target Rifle took the winning spot in a British match.


Mark Wall, the winner of the World Hunter Field Target Championship, with his Air Arms MPR Field Target Rifle with custom stock.

On April 3 and 4, the World Hunter Field Target Championship was held in England. The match winner is Mark Wall, and he used the Air Arms MPR Field Target Rifle. Wall dropped the standard action into a custom stock. While most field target shooters using PCP guns feel you need a regulator, Wall is proof that they’re not essential to take first place. Before shooting in field target matches, Wall was winning competitions with rimfires when he was 13. From there, he moved on to competing with centerfire rifles at distances up to 500 yards.

Now, on to today’s blog.

It’s difficult to write a new blog from the confines of a hospital bed, and impossible to review new products. Thank you for hanging in there with me, as we work through this situation. And thank you for all the support you’ve given both me and Edith over the weeks I’ve been down.

Today’s subject is a pragmatic one. Using the appropriate gun for the appropriate game. I could take this situation and salami-slice it a hundred different ways and use artificial minimum kill numbers and so on. But that’s not how life really works and that’s not what I’m going to do. There are only two conditions under which you need to know when pellet guns are appropriate: normal and survival.

Air rifles

When all the McDonald’s are operating and there’s money in the ATMs, life is normal. So, each example will include a normal-type shot for that gun.


The RWS 34P: Accurate, powerful, not expensive.

Let’s start with a fairly common gun…the RWS 34P shooting a domed pellet. I would limit such a gun to rabbits, squirrels, possums and other animals of that size. Plus, maybe the occasional woodchuck closer than 25 yards


The Walther Falcon Hunter comes with either a metal mainspring or a replacement gas spring. My personal choice would be the gas spring.

Let’s go to a magnum. How about the Walther Falcon Hunter with Air Venturi gas spring in .25 caliber? Now, you can step up to regularly shooting woodchucks, raccoons, foxes and similar game. Keep all your shots at a distance at which you can group them in 1″ or less with certainty.

Sometimes, the ship hits the sand, and ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Back in the 1970s, airgunners were killing wild goats on Santa Catalina island off the Southern California coast with .177 FWB 124 rifles. That’s certainly a gun less powerful than a 34P. In a survival situation, you could take that same 34P and you could rack up game up to 50 lbs. with a clear head (brain) shot. Don’t go bigger because as you do, the game has a tendency to fight back.

That .25 caliber Walther Falcon Hunter with the gas spring, however, can take all of that plus a 150-lb. wild pig. We all know that Gamo has proven this repeatedly on TV. It’s not something to emulate, but in a survival situation ya do what ya gotta do. You become MacGyver.

The Falcon Hunter can easily take deer with a brain shot. So, you’re really well set up if this is the kind of gun you own.

Please do your own interpolation of other guns compared to these two examples because the field is way too large for me to be exhaustive.

Air pistols


Crosman’s 2240 delivers 460 fps in .22 caliber. Just enough power to humanely dispatch small critters at close distances.

If necessary, the only air pistols I recommend are those developing 12 ft-lbs. or more for any kind of animal hunting. But, the truth is that a Crosman 2240 will drop a squirrel or rabbit just fine with a good brain or very accurate heart-lung shot.

I don’t consider air pistols ideal for survival situations at all. But if that’s all I have, I have to learn to stalk, to camouflage and sit silently waiting for a perfect shot. I’m not going to give you limits because I believe they’re too close to the normal limits. But, when you become a member of the Lord of the Flies, you do whatever you have to do to live.

This should give you plenty of grist for a good food fight this weekend! Keep it clean and remember that we have new readers who will need the guidance of more seasoned shooters and hunters. Please help me out, as you have been. Again, thank you very much.

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.

164 thoughts on “Using appropriate pellet guns”

  1. Tom,
    Seriously glad to hear you’re making progress. Fight the good fight.

    All, and now not so seriously:
    I would have to guess that some may find it shameful that I copied the old blog layout fairly closely and then have the nerve to put a link to it here.

    Clearly these folks don’t understand that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Or conceivably something more is going on. What about conspiracy theories? Perhaps this was all staged like the boy in the balloon. I meet earlier this year with one of the principals at PA who told me when I first began posting the staff thought it was actually Tom using an alter ego.

    Who can really say?

    In any case, here it is again. http://namericanairguns.blogspot.com/

    And if you really want shameless, I found a nest of baby bunnies in my yard today. Unless you want them to turn into living “field targets” you should visit “baby blog”

  2. Almost forgot,

    I still like an R1 carbine in .22 caliber for most Springer work, but just read about the new Marauder in .25 cal. At 47 ft lbs, I think it will be the new gold standard for power in an affordable PCP. Plus the .25 caliber finally gives Crosman a unique selling proposition with the hardcore guys. At least for now.

  3. Teething pains for the baby, Volvo? 🙂 Like the look of your blog, can’t wait for today’s update.

    Tom + Edith, I’ve been a reader for some time, and really appreciate your recent efforts. I’m glad to hear you’re making progress — hope you’re out of the hospital soon.

  4. A quote for the night:

    A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do.
    Bob Dylan


  5. B.B., I could not have told that this was written from a hospital bed.

    That’s a mighty nice field target rifle. I didn’t understand the comment about the regulator. Surely, he is not pumping his gun by hand.

    • Matt61

      The regulator meters out precise amounts of air when the rifle is fired. It doesn’t have anything to do with charging the gun.

    • Hi Matt- I’m Mark Wall the guy in the picture. I often read Toms blog and stumbled across my picture on here tonight. This is a great site and a credit to all who comment on here especially Tom, Edith and BB Pelletier. The rifle in the picture- an Air Arms MPR is filled with a divers bottle to 180bar and is extremely consistent , with a measured variation of a max 9fps using weighed pellets over the 40 shots I’d use in a competition. This gun does not have a regulator fitted, some guns have regulators fitted to help consistency and shot count but it is a credit to Air Arms engineering that the Rifle I shoot is as consistent as some rifles fitted with regulators. Hope this helps Matt.
      Best wishes to Tom and I hope he makes a speedy recovery. Best wishes to all contributors and readers to these articles.
      PS -My Dad lived in Kentucky for 7 years from 1997-2004 and I visited many times- you have a beautiful country and some great shots.
      Kind Regards – Mark Wall

        • Hi Edith – yep tell Tom to take it easy and get well soon.These things take time and sometimes we have to be a little eaiser on ourselves I know from personal experience how much of a strain a serious illness can place on a family and to keep writing whilst in hospital is one hell of a feat, especially as the articles are so informative and interesting.
          My own wife was diagnosed with Breast Cancer last August and we’ve been through the operation, the chemotherapy and the radiotherapy and are just keeping our fingers crossed now. My wife completed her radiotherapy two weeks before the World Championships and told me to get on out there and give it my best shot as she knows how much I love my shooting. The win was great and put a smile on my wife and two kids faces for the first time in a few months.

          Great to hear from you Edith- best regards to you and Tom, keep up the good work – Mark Wall

          • Mark,

            Sorry to hear about your wife’s health issues. Hope she’s on the mend now!

            I can’t wait to hear Tom shooting in his office or loading up his truck to go to the range with a bunch of guns or filling the house with the smell of rancid fried grease…well, I don’t mind missing that last one, as that’s due to dieseling springers!


            • Hiya Edith – I bet you cant wait and I bet Tom cant wait either. Be great for you both when he’s up and about. My wifes doing fine at the moment – thanks for asking.
              I’ll have to put something interesting on here myself. I designed a few practice targets for HFT a few years ago and a few Of the UK’s top HFT shooters and myself have trialled them with great success.
              I’ll see if I can email you some for a look – hope to have them on sale soon. Will keep you posted. Also if you want me to send you any info on our Hunter Field Targt Comps, Guns etc let us know and I ‘ll do my best to send you something interesting.
              Kind Regards


  6. Tom,

    I recently rediscovered your blog and was shocked to hear of all your medical troubles. I wish the best and a speedy recovery! The first place I ever saw fit to ask any questions about airguns was this very blog. IIRC, I got ignored the first couple times lol overlooked in some of the running conversations 😉 Got the answers I wanted in the end though.

    Now my 2¢ for the general readers:
    don’t get an airgun expressly for the purpose of survival. Get a .22lr pistol or rifle. If you already have an airgun you’re good with then perhaps you can stick with it, but otherwise get a rimfire gun. You’ll have way more power, typically have better range, and a rimfire gun tends to be handier than a full size springer.

    Take for instance the Walther Falcon Hunter in .25 and a Marlin 795:
    Walther: 8 lbs Marlin: 4.5 lbs
    Walther: 49″ Marlin: 37″
    Walther: 25-26 fpe Marlin: ~85 to ~180 fpe
    Walther: lotsa technique to shoot Marlin: not so much
    Walther: single shot Marlin: 10 rd autoloading repeater
    Walther: $360 Marlin: $150

    And don’t be stupid when hunting with an airgun. The ONLY time it’s justifiable to shoot larger animals like deer or hogs with smallbore airguns is if your survival is at stake. I believe it’s illegal in (nearly?) every state to hunt deer with a smallbore airgun anyway. And as for a hog, well, having seen what they can do a German Shepard when angered, I think you’d be a little nuts to go after one with an airgun.

    Just to be clear, I love airguns and I don’t mean to disparage them. I just don’t think that they should be the go-to for survival. As for hunting small game, I think an air rifle is a fine choice.

  7. BB and Edith.
    ‘Working aggressively’
    It sounds like that rifle next to BBs bed has turned out to be a good motivator:)

    I noticed the world champion fella,Mark Wall is wearing a ‘Team Wales’ jacket.
    Seeing as he won I will call him British.If he had lost,I would have called him Welsh.LOL
    The British as a whole do seem to perform well in all shooting disciplines.
    In fact I was reading only yesterday in an online paper about a couple of feats of superb marksmanship by British Army snipers in Afghanistan.
    One guy took out 5 Taliban fighters in less than 28 seconds.
    The other took out 2 Taliban fighters from a distance of over 1.5 miles.
    In the first gulf war a British Challenger MK1 tank made the furthest combat tank to tank kill in military history.
    This is my theory and thus complete garbage probably, as to why Britons and those of British descent may be so good at shooting.
    The Longbow.
    In days of old it was Law in England that any male above 14 had to learn to shoot the Longbow.
    Although not law I am sure the practice would have spread to Scotland and wales.
    There was no exception and even the new game of Soccer was banned so as not to interfere with Longbow practice.
    Male skeletons dug up which date back to those times show distinct changes which can be attributed to shooting Longbows.
    Who is to say that visual and neurological changes did not also occur and are still with us today?
    Do any of you guys have that almost ‘sixth sense’ feeling when taking a shot?
    Britain of course was not unique in the art of shooting Bows, but Britain rather than just have an elite of marksmen like most countries,had whole generations of them.
    As I said just a theory.

    Due to the election result, music shops around the UK have seen Piano wire sales rocket.LOL

    • DaveUK,

      Speaking of nature-born shooters I would name some Siberian nations like Yakuts or Evenks. They used hunt from their youth up to their death and they proved to be deadly snipers in WWII. They hunted birds in flight using bolt-action rifles instead of shotguns. It’s a pity, but now they’re loosing their culture and their way of life, drinking, working in the cities, well more and more like Native Americans. I must say Russians or Ukrainians from Siberia also have a reputation of crack shots and great hunters.
      Famous Soviet sniper Semyon Nomokonov (he’s Evenk, asian-looking man in front, note his famed bolt-action Mosin WITHOUT scope). Professional hunter.
      Credited with 367 (or 368) confirmed kills (I guess it’ll be something close to 400-420 with unconfirmed), including several (a dosen or so?) German snipers, 7 Japanese and one German major-general. In fact, he’s not even in top-10 of Soviet WWII snipers.
      #9 is Fyodor Okhlopkov – Yakut, professional hunter, hero of USSR, 429 kills
      #5 is Ivan Kulbertinov – Yakut, farmer, occasional hunter, hero of USSR, 487 kills.
      Now some facts that contradict your theory 🙂
      Positions 4-1 in that list belong to 1 Ukrainian, 1 Georgian, and 2 Russians with top 702 kills (albeit as all the top scores they are disputable, so 702 seems to look more like 550-580 solidly confirmed).
      Top-20 consists of Russians, Ukrainians, Belorussians, Jews, Buryats, Tatars, Yakuts, Evenks and Georgians etc. – almost every nation of Soviet Union gave at least 1 great sniper with more than 100 confirmed kills.
      Famous Vasily Zaitsev is not even in top-30 with his 242 confirmed :).

      What I’m trying to say – I think it’s not actually genes, but it’s more the way of life and proper training. Hunting and shooting societies are more likely to produce good shooters as there’s wider “field of choice”. Gifted guys (and gals 🙂 ) are born everywhere, but they sometimes have no opportunity to try themselves.
      So, as Britain can be named a birthplace of modern airgunning – it’s no surprise to me that Brits have good results 🙂


      • duskwhite:
        Pesky Russians I forgot about those.LOL
        Please don’t think I am clinging to my probably bogus theory.
        But try this for size.
        The great Mongol empire that ranged far and wide in Russia almost to Europe was famed for its horseback archery.
        Those fellas lived on horseback and could fire multiple shots accuratly at full gallop.
        As in Britain firing the bow was a generational way of life for all the menfolk not just an elite military.
        Could that also explain the superb Russian army sniper skills you describe from WWII?
        As I said, It’s probably all bunk my theory and I obviously have too much time on my hands to even think of this stuff, let alone write about it:)

        • DiveUK,

          I guess that Mongol theory has 2 weak points:

          1. What we now call Mongols were actually a conglomerate of more than 40 or 50 different nomad nations divided into almost 100 tribes of at least 4 different origins. And of course they were only distant relatives of todays Mongols. There was actually no conventional “empire” as nations were ruled by their own rulers, had their own militaries and policies etc. Mongols were interested just in taxes being paid and sent and didn’t care about the rest if it was OK with taxes. They didn’t stay here for long.
          2. Mongols completely refused the idea of mixing with local people, as well as locals, be it plainsfolk of Russia or woodsfolk of Siberia. Of course there was some genes transmission (rapings, occasional romance and marriages etc.) but I don’t think it is enough. If that theory of yours is right, Tatars must be a “sniper nation”, as they have most genes of that what we call Mongols. However we see that Tatars gave Red Army no more great snipers than e.g. Buryats, Jews or Byelorussians.

          So I guess “way of life” and “training” is more likely to be an explanation.
          BTW, Swiss and Finns are a good illustration – both nations are also known to produce good shooters, but it’s rather way of life and training, than genes.


          • duskwight:
            ‘DiveUK’ lol
            Yes I have certainly taken a dive on that theory of mine:)
            I have learnt more than I did before though,thanks to your replies.

                • For more on the subject of historical performance, I recommend to all a book called Manthropology. It appears to be an academic book technically, but written in an unusually engaging style. The thesis is that throughout history in everything to do with “manhood,” our ancestors were far superior to the current generation. They could run faster, fight harder, endure more pain, lift heavier loads, have more sex (the time scale is hours!), and, yes, shooter further, faster, and more accurately. For example, the claim is that Australian aborigines could routinely outrun Usain Bolt. An average Neanderthal woman could defeat the world arm-wrestling champ with ease. Medieval Turkish warriors could routinely hit targets at 500 yards with arrows, and samurai archers recorded much higher scores on shooting courses that exist today than the best modern masters. The basic rationale comes down heavily on the side of the environmentalists. Every preceding environment was much more physical with everyone living a lot closer to death, so they needed to call more on their physical capabilities. Makes sense to me.

                  But as another pull for British shooting, you may want to investigate a Sergeant Snoxall, sergeant of “musketry” (in the 20th century!) who shot some incredible rapid fire long distance score with an SMLE Mk IV–something like 38 bullseyes in one minute from three hundred yards.

                  • Matt61,

                    I’ve heard of such theory. However, that’s quite contrary to the material evidence. If our ancestors were stronger, their armor and weapons, for example, would be thicker and heavier, as they had more power limit.
                    I’ve seen some medieval armor in Czech Republic – trust me, it’ll fit only my girlfriend – that days’ knights were less than 170 cm tall and of quite a delicate buid 🙂 I’ve tried period’s sword. It is light and a bit short-hilted for my hand (and I’m not a big-handed man):)
                    My friend – he’s a historian, studying Genghis Khan’s age once said to me, than no existing period’s bow has power enough to launch a period’s arrow as far as chronicles say, and purpose-bult modern replicas too 🙂 He says our ancestors were not stronger than us, but they seemed to have better stamina and immunity, to resist the load of life and diseases. However that exhausted their reserves quickly and average lifespan was way shorter. He also says, that one mustn’t believe in chronicles, as they are dedicated to some exceptional events – and that’s no way to judge exceptional for average.


                    • duskwight,

                      I agree fully with what you say. Tom and I have often visited antique stores, and the vintage clothing from just 100 years ago is MUCH smaller than most of the clothing made today. People used to be much smaller. If I’m not mistaken, the excavated skeletons of individuals from 5,000 years ago are quite diminutive.


          • Looks like Edith got the last word on this thread. Maybe I can start a new branch.
            Just wanted to point out, based on Edith’s antique observations, I’m not too small, I’m just too late.

      • Some time ago, you commented on refillable cartridges and mentioned that it is quite common in Russia for people to make and use them. Would you mind publishing some pictures of the refill stations used to refill the 12-gram cartridges? As many as you can get your hands on would be nice. If you don’t mind, send some directly to my address of gageasebrkr [at] gmail com

        Many thanks.

        • cyclealleyriders,

          Still she’s the best female sniper of the world I guess. And AFAIR she made that with less-precise SVT self-loading rifle. Female snipers were a common sight in WWII, as well as female fighter and bomber pilots and even tank commanders.

          As I have read in a book written as a sort of sniper manual (let it be a loose quotation), woman is generally better for a role of sniper. Women are more patient, meticulous, less aggressive but merciless, have higher pain threshold and more chances of survival if wounded. However there are two huge and fatal disadvantages – women are generally too curious about things and that can be fatal, and they generally have worse grip on their emotions, and that can break her psyche before she can adapt to her role as a sniper. If she survives these two weaknesses and learns to treat them – she turns into first-class high-presision killing machine. Unquote.
          That is at least partly correct, as I’ve heard from my Grandpa a story on that.


  8. “The Falcon Hunter can ‘easily’ take deer with a brain shot. So, you’re really well set up if this is the kind of gun you own.”

    That’s the most irresponsible thing I’ve heard here in a long time. I can only imagine how many deer would you maim in the process.

    • Heaven,

      The statement about the Falcon Hunter taking deer with a brain shot was under the Survival heading. If you were starving and had to find a way to kill something to eat and deer was available and all you had was that gun, then you’re saying you would rather starve to death than attempt to shoot the deer in the head because you fear that you might not kill the deer.

      If it were me and I had only one pellet and the Falcon Hunter, I’d shoot the deer. If it didn’t die, I’d throw rocks at it’s head and continue to track it until it dropped from blood loss or exhaustion. When it finally went down, I’d use the butt of the gun to deliver a fatal blow to its cranium.

      In survival situations, people do things they would never consider doing during times of plenty.

      Personally, I’m an animal lover. When we lived in Maryland, there was a field and a stand of trees along the other side of the street. A buck with 5 does often wandered there. One day, an idiot with too much alcohol in his system took his shotgun and ONE shell and shot one of the deer. The deer stumbled but did not die, yet it didn’t have the energy to run. It was flailing around. Tom saw it and immediately went outside with his firearm. He grabbed the besotted man, who was standing around grinning because he’d hit the deer, and took him over to the deer. My husband proceeded to fire shot after shot after shot after shot into the animal’s head. He did this til the natural twitching of dying muscles stopped. Then, to make sure the drunken shooter knew how angry my husband was over the failure to use proper ammo and skill when shooting an animal, Tom pulled out his pocket knife, slit open the dead animal, pulled out the liver and heart and threw them into the man’s face. Yeah, Tom hates it when people don’t pick the right gun for the right job. This was not a survival situation. If it had been, there would have been 10 other people standing around with big sticks trying to finish off the deer so they could eat.

      Don’t think you wouldn’t do the same. The mind and body are willing to do unusual and uncommon things because the survival instinct is a powerful one.


    • I side with Edith on her reply to this comment, however, I would not come down hard on the commenter, Heaven, for his statement because he/she points out a viable risk. That risk is there are readers on this blog who do not read as well as most of us. They will take the “deer” statement out of context and think that deer hunting with a pellet rifle is being sanctioned by this blog. Neither BB nor anyone on this blog means that nor do he/we need to apologize for someone else’s inability to understand that. There will always be that 10% who misunderstand.

      I have vetted therefore I am.

  9. Normal: A problem I see when airgun of various and power levels types are recommended for shooting animals, is that many who do this, aren’t really hunting in the true sense. Many of these folks will recomend a combination ,that while effective on a bird feeder pest, will fall short in the field. There is a big difference in sniping a realatively tame suburban squirrel from a bedroom window at less than 20 yards, then a wild one at 30, high in a beech tree on a windy October day, that knows he’s being pursued.
    My own personal minimum for an air gun to be actually used for hunting game is( at the muzzle ) 12 to 14 ft/lbs, and that is for small birds and fragile furred game like rabbits. I like a gun putting out at least 18 to 23 ft/lbs for squirrels, and very short range shots on larger furbearers like racoons and woodchucks.
    Survival: Plan ahead, practice the crafts/skills, and get a RF rifle (or two or three!), cached in places with other essential supplies, and hoard some ammo. Lots&lots of ammo! Forget about primarily hunting for small game for for food. Think trapping small and big game. Much more effective. I know, I’ve been trapping furbearers for forty years now. You can trap more food than you could ever hunt, and be much more sucessful. Also learn to grow food, store food, cach food, and plan on raising some of those rabbits you might trap as a domesticated source of protein. Don’t plan on learning these skills on the lerch, you will not have a chance. That’s my take on this based on my experiences. Robert

  10. B.B,
    All the best in your recovery.

    Now, as for pistols I’m surprised that a CO2 pistol made the list due to the life-span of the powerlet. I recently, instead, opted for Crosman’s 1377 depsite being in .177cal. Pick your prey, pick your shot, know your shot.

  11. Morning Edith and BB,

    fine blog and lots of food for thought this morning – er – no pun intended. I particularly like Robert’s comment above about survival. I was out on business yesterday so didn’t get a chance to comment on the Quackenbush rifles or making the find of a lifetime. A month or three ago, a family who knew nothing about motorcycles other than their grandfather used to ride his around Staten Island, decided to haul his old bike out of the cellar and put it up for auction. It fetched $131,000 as it was built around 1894 and was the first-ever patented ‘motorrad’, the Hildebrand & Wolfmülle. So you hopefuls out there, that old air rifle, tractor or car may still be sitting in someone’s barn/closet/cellar!

    Fred PRoNJ

  12. As Edith stated, clearly B.B. is giving his recommendation for extreme circumstances. If you happen to have a Winchester 94 in 30-30 or 12 gauge 870 and slugs lying around those would be a better bet for a deer. If not, an airgun could be of assistance instead of having to use some MacGyver type snare made from the draw string in your pants.

    The only bad part is not everyone will be able comprehend the advice, which is not his fault.

  13. Gamo proved NOTHING. The wild pig was tied to a bush, and the guy was less than 10 yards away. Real Class! Way to go, Gamo! Gee, great hunting story!

    Those who talk about taking large game with small bore airguns need to be put to jail. The responsible airgun community is sick and tired of these clowns who make our sport and hobby more difficult to carry on.

  14. Re: Marauder floating barrel

    I checked mine. It is a .22 and very accurate. My barrel shroud does indeed touch the barrel band at the top. The actual barrel must be floating inside that. Not a clue as to how that can be verified without removing parts.

  15. This is just an observation…

    I just received an email showing New Pellets. I am really suprised that Crosman/Benjamin offered a .25cal version of their Destroyer pellets, and have yet to do this for .22cal (the current most popular hunting caliber). Seems like short-sightedness to me on their part.

    Also, I am really surprised that they do not offer a line of (their most popular) pellets with a higher lead content (less antimony), for those shooters that don’t mind a few bent skirts in the tin, and want to keep leading concerns down.

  16. BB
    I did a longer comment than this pressed submit and lost it.So I must be brief.

    An Interesting article on the range of quarry a particular rifle can handle.
    The ‘What If’ scenario is one I have wondered myself.
    A poacher fella I spoke to ages ago confirms what ‘Robert from Arcade’ said.
    Trapping is far more efficiant than hunting.
    Saying that though,he did also carry a .22 air rifle when on his little forays into the woods.

  17. BB,

    Boy, you REALLY need to get out of that hospital! Maybe it’s the food, or possibly the white robes in excess combined with the constant poking and prodding? 🙂

    Seriously, I my opinion, in a survival situation, conservation of supplies on hand needs to be a top priority. Using too small a tool for the job produces an extra amount of effort or supplies for the result. I would trap a deer/pig and bleed it out long before I wasted small game and rodent ammo (.177, .22 pellets). The airguns can be used for rodents and small game if that’s what you’ve got, but how many pellets does it take to be proficient at killing deer/pig? If you find yourself in a survival situation with only and airgun, you didn’t prepare. and if one hasn’t prepared, then I assume practicing deer killing, stalking, camoflouge, etc… hasn’t been done either. Face it, your unprepared, get used to the taste of rats and cats!

    .22lr and .243 for food, cant see me running out of either for a few years. 300WSM and 45auto will be for Zombies. Gasoline will be used mostly for just getting my ammo to the new location for survival!

    May God bless you with a speedy recovery, brother, so you can get the heck out of that hospital!


    • Thank goodness somebody finally addressed the Zombie problem! I’m never sure when to break out the silver bullets. I mean, with the walking dead, how do you really tell the difference between the Zombies and the Vampires at centerfire distances? Those silver bullets don’t grow on trees you know, and it’s a real disappointment to find out too late that the target of that center-of-mass shot was really a Zombie. And don’t tell me about saving silver by using wooden stakes! Rifle range is already too close for comfort in my book!

      I can’t believe these other people worried about their goats and brain shots. If enraged goats are their biggest issue, they clearly don’t know about survival situations, right Frank? Jeez!

  18. I posted this as a reply to Heaven.

    I’m re-posting it here because there are some who won’t see it under the original comment. I guess I now support posting comments rather than replies.

    I side with Edith on her reply to this comment (about deer and airguns), however, I would not come down hard on the commenter, Heaven, for his statement because he/she points out a viable risk. That risk is there are readers on this blog who do not read as well as most of us. They will take the “deer” statement out of context and think that deer hunting with a pellet rifle is being sanctioned by this blog. Neither BB nor anyone else on this blog means that nor do he/we need to apologize for someone else’s inability to understand that. There will always be that 10% who misunderstand.

    I have vetted therefore I am.

  19. Since it seems that someone out there is always willing to take a small part of what is said and try to make a quote that has little to do with the original context….I will only advocate using my .457 Quackenbush to dispatch deer.Let’s see if anyone thinks that is not enough air rifle for the job! BB please continue your impressive progress!

  20. Dave in the UK: A English book that strongly influenced my boyhood and the direction I have taken in my life was written by one of your countrymen, who was a prolific writer of the shooting and country life. The book was “Brendon Chase” written by B.B , the pen name of D.J. Watkins Pitchford. It was about a boy who took to the woods with a .22 rifle and lived off the land. Another book you may find of interest is ” While Others Sleep” by Cyril Heber Percy, about poaching game. You folks over there have a rich history of survival, despite draconion legislation designed to make that extermely difficult on your tiny island. Take care ,Robert.

  21. Maybe I should have included the words “small bore” in my vetting. I read a comment on the Shooter’s Forum that .40 and above was being allowed for deer in Missouri.

    Following is the quote:

    begin quote 02-04-2008, 10:27 AM This is from the Missouri Conservationist magazine.

    **Starting this fall, firearms deer hunters will be able to use air-powered guns, .40 caliber or larger, charged only from an external high compression power source (external hand pump, air tank or air compressor). This change was the result of a suggestion from the public. Before it was passed, staff members tested large bore air rifles powered by compressed air and found them suitable for hunting deer.**

    Just curious to hear everyones thoughts. I did not know that air rifles like this exsisted. end quote.


    • Chuck,

      There are custom/handmade airguns that develop 1,000 ft-lbs. of energy, so they’re more than adequate for taking larger game. I believe Dennis Quackenbush has production rifles that develop 600 ft-lbs.


    • Chuck,

      I don’t think you need worry about having not clearly stated “small bore,” as I doubt anybody would consider a .457 Quackenbush a “pellet rifle” . . . . .

      Alan in MI

  22. It is only my opinion, but I feel that airguns should be used mainly for pest control and firearms for hunting. We all know that opinions aren’t worth “blank”, but still wanted to state my inexperienced one. My dad always used either a 30-06 or a 30-30 for hunting never an airgun but that was decades ago and airguns have come a long way.


    • rikib,

      Big bore airguns of yore were used for hunting game. What would you do with a 1,000 ft-lb. rifle? Use it to dispatch squirrels? I doubt it. So, that’s why larger game is taken with big bore airguns that generate a lot of power.


        • rikiB

          Check out this link


          These guns are all about hunting.

          I know you don’t hunt, but if you were to decide you wanted one, you will have to wait in a very long line, or spend north of $1000 on the Yellow classifieds.

          Frank B has at least 3 of them, maybe 4? What’s the latest count Frank B?! 😉

          • My old friend SlingingLead!The count is now at 4 wonderful Quackenbush’s and each puts a smile on my face!!I have a shoulder cannon in .457 good for 600ftlbs,a small .25 carbine rifle,a full sized .25 rifle that adjusts power with a twist on the hammerspring preloader that also boasts an LDC,and a .308 rifle good out to 300 yards on 4″ targets.If only you lived next door you could borrow them like a cup of sugar,as long as they were returned with full tanks!

  23. I should clarify…

    There are several air rifles in .22 cal that can successfully take deer. Not to mention the large bore one’s that are made to do just that. I am coming from the angle that survival has become necessary due to sudden events and now everyone has to “run what you brung”. If all I had was a spring powered .22 I wouldn’t waste good ammo on taking a deer, trapping is more effecient because you have spread your efforts 3-4 times as you can only be in one place at any given moment, common sense. Shoot the little critters, trap the larger ones.

    Paul, Yep Zombies! I live in So. California. MANY, MANY Zombies. If the ‘fit hits the shan’ and the populace cant go cash in their food stamps or welfare checks for food because the shelves have been raided already they will be raiding homes in packs. I give Los Angeles two days after a large scale economic crash before the shelves are empty. 40% of them are lawless illegal occupants as it is, and according to the overspending, undergoverning boneheads, things are going good. Not sure if I’d make the distinction between Zombie and Vampire then.

  24. Edith
    Any further updates on when the emails will not simply say “WordPress” and actually give a name? If I remember correctly (probably not) this was supposed to have been fixed.


    • rikib,

      Actually, everything is in place, I’m the one who’s holding things up. I have to remove everyone’s name and put in an alias that’s been set up by Pyramyd AIR. I’ll do it on Saturday.


      • Edith,

        None of us will fault you for “holding things up.” Do it when you get the time. Seems like you have more important priorities right now.

      • Edith
        NO RUSH! I know you have got a lot going on. I just didn’t know if the fix had been made and I needed to do something on my end. Take care of yourself and Tom, this is no big deal!


  25. Chuck,my comment had little to do with airguns.I could not agree more with your stated opinions on this subject.My problem is folks taking things out of context that is clearly included in the point being made.I read some blog discussions from folks after Missouri made the decision to allow large bore air rifles for harvesting deer.Those folks were interested but knew little about airguns or physics for that matter……it was suggested by one person that an air rifle would be unfair advantage because they thought it would be silent,like a Red Rider!Unfortunately,it was an old archive so I was unable to share any actual knowledge with the participants….

    • Frank B
      I know very little about airgunning as I only shoot a 2240, definitely not silent. If these people feel that airgunning is silent, what do they feel about bow hunting. My brother-in-law only hunts with a bow up in a tree stand. I don’t think you can get anymore silent than a bow. Is bow hunting wrong, it’s been around a lot longer than guns.

  26. Edith

    Holy Crap. I mean WOW. That guy must have thought he had awoken from his drunken stupor to the worst nightmare of his life. Short of tucking the guy in there and sewing the thing back up, I hope he got his point across.

    I hereby pledge to do everthing in my power, from this day forward, to stay on Tom’s GOOD side. I so solemnly swear this pledge, so help me, Slinging Lead.

    That was a keen reminder of what a valuable resource the blog comments are!

    Take care,

    Slinging Lead

  27. Kid Again

    Loved your comment. I was grinning from ear to ear.

    Zombies are definitely a legitimate concern. Chuck brought up this very topic not long ago, and it really caught my interest.

    Hunting zombies is not without its complications. True, they are not cunning prey, but they are definitely resilient. Precise shots are a must. When it comes to taking out zombies, I like to experiment– but I always seem to come back to the fully automatic AA-12 shotgun… with FRAG grenades, of course.


    Just don’t get any on you. The smell is revolting.

    • As I recall, Werewolfs need bullets made of silver, people on vacation at Lake Mead need silver bullets, Zombies need a good head shot, Vampires need wood through the heart.

      With Ballistic silver tips, a cooler full of Coors Light, some shooting discipline and a Quackenbush with a .45 cal chunk of wood I would think I’m covered!

  28. Hi Edith,

    In the “old blog” we could search for commenters by name, and comments by topic, and sometimes by comment phrases.

    Will that function be added to this new format ?

    • I didn’t know you could search by commenters on the old blog. I never tried it and it never occurred to me to do so. I use Safari on a Mac, and I’m able to sort the comments as rikib stated in another response to your comment. Have you tried that?


  29. Robert from Arcade:
    Thank you for those book recomendations I will check them out with the local library.
    Where I live In Lincolnshire it is awash with Pheasant and Partridge,plus rabbits as well.
    The issue as always though is gaining the land owners permission to shoot.
    Not one acre of land is not spoken for in the UK it seems.
    This is obviously where the wiley poacher fits in.
    For now I take comfort that unlike when I lived in the capital,I would at least have half a chance of survival should things get too bad.
    Also for all its faults and limitations my rifle with its collapsable metal stock can be tucked under the armpit and carried beneath a waist length coat.
    Ideal for Poaching should needs must.
    All the best,

  30. Edith, I hope you didn’t think that last sentence above from the Shooter’s Forum was mine. It is actually part of that quote I copied. I tried to use “begin quote” and “end quote” to prevent that confusion. I’ve been an AG neophyte and BB worshiper long enough to know they exist 🙂

    I can’t fathom a 1,000 ft-lb air pistol, though. Would love to see one and in action.

    Hey Jeff, is that true that Gamo shot that pig from less than 10yds, tied up? I guess they don’t have Myth Busters budget to use slide rules and to try stuff like that out on ballistics gel or dead hog carcasses.

    Paul, I suggest “The Zombie Survival Guide” by Max Brooks for your bedtime reading. He suggests being extra quiet because gunshots attract Zombies, alerting them as to your location. With that in mind, the airgun makes a very viable choice, next to trapping.

  31. Alan in MI,
    Frank B says his .457 Q is an air rifle and I checked PA’s web site and they call those .45 and .50 thingys pellets so they must be shooting them out of a pellet rifle. 🙂

  32. rikib,
    Here’s a couple quotes I just got off an email:

    “I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” — James Madison, 4 Annals of Congress 179, 1794

    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” – Samuel Adams

  33. I think I need to post a link to some ammo photos for my “pellet guns”….The big bore D A Quackenbush’s total 4 rifles right now{subject to change without notice}!A .22 caliber Crosman premier weighs 14.3 grains,a .457 “pellet” that I am fond of weighs 430 grains!!!about 30 x the weight.I also have 510 grain hollowpoints that I am saving for when 3 zombies aproach single file….because they have no food value!FWIW a .457 air rifle is NOT silent,kicks like a 12GA and uses a full 1000psi per shot to deliver just over 600 ftlbs to the target.To see available ammo for big bores check out my friend’s website mr.hollowpoint.com…he has some great photos of ammo.

  34. Frank,
    In contrast Pa’s largest .45 is 230gr and the .50 is 275gr. At what point would you stop calling them pellets and then at that point what would you call them? Bullets? Lead pugs?

    I guess you’d better have your quiet .22 Marauder on hand or maybe the new .25 Marauder in a Zombie survival situation and take deer with a bow.

    • Chuck,

      I’ve always made the distinction between pellets & bullets by the base. Usually, pellets have a hollowed-out base. Bullets are solid and have a flat base. I’m not an expert on bullets, so maybe I’m wrong on that one.


      • RE: pellets vs. bullets

        Well I’m an ex-spurt (drip under pressure…)

        I’d say that the difference is whether the projectile is drag stabilized or spin stabilized. But any classification system will have exceptions of course. The subject is just too complication not to have exceptions.


      • They are both bullets. The skirt is usually the defining factor. For me, anyway.

        either can be propelled from air pressure, but not sure about the skirted projectile with explosive powder.

  35. Frank B.,

    Thanks for your comments on the big bores. I tell people to think black powder rifes and the big bore air guns as kinda being the same type of critter for hunting. By that I mean a rather heavy bullet or pellet “plodding” along putting big, death causing holes it whatever it hits. Do I have that right?

    If it was me I’d throw in a .22 Talon SS with a 24″ barrel instead of the Air Arms rifle that B.B. chose–around 40fpe for a reasonable amount of air per shot. Slip a good shroud on it and you won’t spook anything.

    Mr B.

    • Mr.B,While I like your choice I would guess it is an eye of the beholder thing.Heck,a slingshot isn’t even a wrong answer…suitable ammo is everywhere!The most important thing would be acquiring food before becoming food.Everything else is artistic and knowledge of survival tactics is probably most important…we are all blessed with abilities yet to be explored.

      • MrB,I would like to add that your black powder anology is mostly right on target.If the projectile weight goes down the speed goes up substantially.I fired round ball .457 50 yards at a concrete webbed block.The roundball suffers very little barrel friction loss and therefore shoots quite flat.Two rounds rendered the block into two pieces leaving me in awe….that is alot of power!!!Like you,I am a big fan of the Talon/Condor platform for all the guns that can be made for different purposes from plinking in silence to blasting 55gal. drums to hunting coons and woodchucks!

  36. Edith,While I admire your attempt to delineate clearly the difference between names for projectiles,the hollow base thing won’t work because I have .457 295gr bullets with hollow bases and solid noses…the bottom line is they are all projectiles and after all “What is in a name….?”anyway.If it gets me 350lbs of wild pork,I’ll call it Montegue or Capulet or simply Sir:]

  37. Dave in the UK: Another title you might find interesting is “The Game Keeper At Home , The Amatuer Poacher” by Richard Jefferies. It’s about poaching in England in the Victorian era. Your suggestion of archery tackle is a good one. I have hunted also with stick bows and even the mountain men used the Indian bow to conserve lead and powder. I have a lot of books on hunting in your country, as my father used to subscribe to “Shooting Times and Country” magazine years ago. He would order many books from England that were advertised there. He was primarily a bird hunter, pheasents mostly. I inherited most of his books when he passed. Robert.

    • Robert 7:42,
      Thanks for that further book suggestion.
      Now victorian era poaching must have been a real challenge with the added risk of buckshot up the backside from an angry Squire:)
      What I am hoping is that my mate Steve is sucessful getting his firearms licence.
      The fella who is sponsoring his application has access to good shooting land all over the area.
      Once the connections are made it may be possible for me to tag along with my rifle or preferably my dads Webley.
      Thanks again,

  38. Sam Yang Big Bore 909S


    “By fsh_whisper from USA on 2010-01-19 09:19:08 – See all my reviews Add comment to this review

    Things I liked:I ordered the big bore a couple years ago (old model) and the gun just keeps on impressing me.
    With .454 lead swagged balls from hornady at 50 yards i get compleat pass throughs on a 50 gallon steel drum.
    This gun has HIGH POWER and should be treated exactally like a firearm.

    I have dropped several deer with it out to 60 yards, and have plowed over a couple of coyotes.

    If you spend a bit of time with your gun it’s VERY accurate, for fun shot a couple squirles in the head at 40 yards.
    Nice gun, well balanced, and with a Leapers Bug Buster scope very accurate

    What others should know:The neighbors hear it fire, but through conversations with them they really have
    no idea what it actually is. However this is not a backyard plinker and DONT buy it for that.
    This gun also takes alot of air, so if your not in shape enough to do some seriose hand pumping go the scuba tank route.
    It’s a fine rifle, and be prepaired if you show it to friends cuz they are gonna want it !!!

  39. rikiB

    Here is a good one:

    Silence is often misunderstood, but never misquoted.

    I guess that is more of a saying than a quote, but I like it.

    Sleep well.

  40. This is a test of the new system to notify people who receive all comments in their inbox. If all things work as intended, you will receive this comment 2x. If it works properly, I will change over to this new method and you will receive future comments only once under the new format.


    • Well, I got the above comment 2x, but it didn’t work correctly. The FROM in the email still said WordPress instead of the name of the person who made the comment. Back to the drawing board!


  41. Edith,
    On your test around 9am:

    I got a message “Go green…..” sent to: “WordPress to bbpelletier-bl.” where normally I have been getting them sent to: “WordPress to me”

    • Chuck,

      The “Go green” message is tagged onto all emails that come through Pyramyd AIR. It’s automatic.

      Here’s how things work in WordPress. Only the author of an article (in this case, B.B. Pelletier) gets comments that have the FROM section filled in with the name of the person who posted the comment. We wanted everyone to get messages like that, so we set up an alias email at Pyramyd AIR (bbpelletier-blog-helpers) as a workaround. Theoretically, it’s supposed to work. I posted a test comment, but it didn’t work. I pulled the alias bypass and have emailed the programmer with the results. Hopefully, he can fix things soon.


  42. Looks like the spammers are still slithering out from under their rocks. I got a “mailed by: act1.act-tech.com” in the details line on the last one. Can’t these be traced to the source? Is spamming actually illegal or just annoying?

    • Chuck,

      Yes, the spammers are having a heyday. However, you won’t find the spammer’s comments on the comment list under the blog posting. That’s because we have the anti-spam plug-in that holds them for moderation. I believe there were 8 spams listed this morning. Six were real spams, 1 was from duskwight and another was from someone else (maybe Dave UK). These last 2 were legit, so I approved them and they now appear in the comments section. I’m sure there will be slip ups, so let me know if you see a spam that mistakenly got listed as a comment.

      There’s another type of comment that you may have seen come through but will never see listed as a blog comment. It’s a pingback, which is a notification that someone has linked to the blog. I’m working on getting these removed if Pyramyd AIR doesn’t need that data. Just ignore those.

      I read everything (or at least I heavily scan everything), and I think I’ve caught all the items that don’t belong here.


  43. After a couple of days of procrastinating, I finally got around to putting my TKO LDC on my Benjamin Discovery. Wow, this thing sure does… collect lead dust. I would say it is about the same level as my Marauder now… at collecting lead dust.

    As my treasured collection of lead dust grows, I will be sure to keep the blog informed.

  44. I’ve been looking at upgrading my springer, and have been impressed with the quality cost of the RWS 350.

    So I’m now a bit puzzled. The Umarex website is kind enough to list joules in the specs of many of their guns, something I wish pyramidair would do, and they list the 350 in the mid 20ft/lbs while the Falcon is in the mid-teens. Is their info inaccurate or is it that the reputation of the Falcon simply preceded the 350 or whatever other possibility.

    But it seems to me that I’d take the 350 for it’s more energy on target…especially in a survival type situation.

    • Which 350 and which Falcon, and which caliber??

      Consider that power and velocity figures get manipulated for advertising purposes.The pellets used may often be the worst choice for accuracy.

      The more power you can lay on game the better. It makes for more certain kills. You also need to remember that there should be a size limitation applied to game that is being hunted. What may be possible if you are lucky is different from what will be probable.

      You do not have to worry about blowing smaller critters into confetti, so overpowered is not a concern.

      There is also difference in trajectory. Faster shooting guns require a lot less range estimation than slower guns do. You could always work close enough that it would not matter.


      • I figure its the same company so they would likely be using the same process for both guns to determine speed and power–maybe even the same pellets for the same caliber.

        But my confusion is really the reputation of the Falcon Hunter seems to indicate that it is superior for hunting while the 350 numbers look like they’d do at least as good and probably better.

        The numbers they list:
        Walther Falcon Hunter .22 is listed at 800 fps 15.6 joules
        Walther Falcon Hunter .25 is listed at 1000 fps with no joules listed.
        both same barrel length 19.75

        RWS 350 is listed 4 times
        RWS 350 P Magnum listed at .177 and .22 with 1250 fps no joules both listed barrel length 19.5
        RWS 350 Magnum listed at .177 at 1250 fps 24.3 joules at .22 same fps but 24.4 joules one barrel at 19.625 the other at 19.5
        RWS 350 Feuerkraft listed at .177 at 1250 fps 24.3 joules at .22 same fps but 24.4 joules barrel length for both listed at 19.625
        RWS 350 Feuerkraft Pro Compact listed at .177 at 1000 fps 24.3 joules at .22 same fps but 24.4 joules barrel length for both 15.75

        • Harold,

          I think that you have your numbers switched around on the Walther Falcons.
          PyramydAir’s page
          lists them at 1000 fps for the .22 and 800 fps for the .25. They also list the .25 at having 26.54 ft-lbs of
          energy at the muzzle.
          The gas-rammed Walther Falcon Hunter
          shows 1010 fps w/ 11.9 gr and 855 fps w/ 15.8 gr for power at the muzzle of 26.96 ft-lbs and 25.65 ft-lbs respectively.
          So, the Walther Falcon Hunter gives you muzzle energy of 25-27 ft-lbs whether in .22 or .25 caliber.

          The PyramydAir folks said that they achieved 850 fps with a 14 gr pellet giving the RWS 350 a muzzle energy
          of 22.47 ft-lbs in .22 caliber.

          In short, you’ve gotten some of the numbers mixed up.
          The Walther Falcon Hunter gives slightly better muzzle energy than the RWS 350.

          • Thanks for point out the Pyramid Air info…It’s not listed in the specs but lower down.

            And I just rechecked the UmarexUSA site, and their numbers are just confusing…I’ll stick with the Pyramid Air info for hopefully more sensible information.

  45. Tom and Edith – What an amazing couple you two are.

    About the Marauder shroud – there should be a gap between the barrel band and the shroud on both sides. No gap is not a problem as long as the shroud does not push the barrel out of true. Having a gap on both sides makes sure that everything is ok. A few weeks ago, I realized that I had lost a bit of accuracy. Upon looking at the Marauder, I saw that the band was touching on one side. I figured out that I was over tightening the fill cover and the excess torque had twisted the barrel band. It’s an easy fix – there are just two small hex bolts holding the barrel band in place.

    On a personal note, I brought home a peace lily from my mother’s funeral back in 2007. It finally bloomed this morning – the day before Mother’s Day.

  46. On my Marauder there is an equal amount of space on both sides of the shroud but it is touching at the top. I don’t think it’s affecting accuracy but do you think it should have space all around the shroud or just the sides?

    • I haven’t read anything about contact on the top of the shroud. I’ll have to go to the garage and check mine. My guess is that as long as the barrel is not being contacted, it should be okay.

      Also, I forgot to mention that the end cap or the baffles could be pushed into the path of the pellet if the shroud is too far out of alignment. The early .22’s had this happen because they had very little margin of error. Crosman fixed the problem by making the holes bigger.

  47. I would be astounded if 90% of the population could make it two weeks without electricity and running water, so the question is a bit academic. Fishing, trapping, gathering nuts, berries and roots, even cultivating crops and raising animals would be on my list before devoting too much time to hunting in a survival situation, but an occasional squirrel or rabbit, even a coon or possum, might taste good every once in a while:).

  48. Harold in MD,

    I’ve got a 350 Magnum: accurate, powerful, heavy and hold sensative, but it didn’t take me too long to tame her with the artillary hold. It’s my go to hunting springer. I cann’t help you with hands on experience with the Falcon, but the guys that shoot the .25’s sure liker that caliber for hunting. Trying typing Falcon in the search engin. Seems like I’m remembering a reoprt B.B. did on that gun, but I might be wrong.

    Mr B.

    Yes where in MD?

  49. Don’t think I have an accuracy problem so top touch must be ok. Must still be aligned inside ok. I shoot ragged one holers at 10m but dang it’s hard to stay inside that target’s 10 hole.

  50. Take today Mothers’ Day off and read this tomorrow.

    This “older entries”/”newer entries” thing is getting me confused. Is it really working correctly?

  51. General question for you all. My daughter wants to learn to shoot a pistol too (she has recently started learning to shoot a rifle, with amazing results). She is only 8, and small for her size. Most os the pistols are double action, and difficult for her to pull the trigger.

    I have a Walther P99 pellet gun, and it cocks too hard for her to shoot in single action. Many of the cocking pistols are just too hard to cock for her, so I started to look at CO2 to help her out a bit.

    To start her off, I was thinking about the Walther PPK as it is a single action shooter. She actually picked out that pistol herself from the list on Pyramid. Cock once, and she could then shoot fairly well. (I suppose I could get a P99 Compact, to have similar accuracy as her).

    So my question. What sort of accuracy can one expect from the Walther PPK and/or P99 Compact action pistols. If they are as accurate as throwing a rock, that wouldn’t be very fun. (She is already blasting Necco’s at 8 yards with her IZH-61). I know that these pistols are not super accurate, but what can they pull off? Pop can at how many feet? Pop can at 10 yards reasonable to expect?

    Any other options you can recommend? Are there other pistols that would work well? She is doing so well with her rifle (amazing really, I don’t think I could hit Necco’s when I was 8 at that distance) and really liking it. She is excellent at handling it safely too, which is really great. She wants to shoot pistol with me too, why not. Suggestions are welcome. Thanks all.

    • PPK: Pop can at ten yards, no problem. Necco at ten yards, maybe, maybe not.

      I’ve found a wonderful natural target out here in the American West. It is a type of wild gourd known as a “buffalo gourd”. About the size of a tennis ball, and bright yellow. They can absorb up to 50 pellets before shattering completely.

      These things grow wild where ever there is enough rainfall to support them. They are almost perfectly spherical.


    • bristolview,

      This is Edith, but Tom is dictating this from his hospital bed:

      I recommend the Beeman P17. You should be able to hit Neccos at 10 meters when she gets good. The trigger is a delight. The sights are crisp and adjustable.

      In my experience, the PPK/S shot 2.5″ groups @ 12 feet. I suppose some of that is due to mfg tolerances.

      Tom Gaylord

      • Tom and Edith, Thank you both. I actually have a P17, and I can’t say enough good about it. I didn’t expect much for the price, but it is very very good. My daughter could never cock it however, which is the only issue; at least for it and her. I have to agree, the trigger is wonderful and the sights reliable. This is the pistol I have been shooting, and which got her interested in shooting with me. I love it, but I’m concerned about how long it will last (based on many not as favorable reviews as mine).

        Needless to say, it is way too hard to cock for my daughter. I suppose I could cock it for her, but she really wants to do it herself. If those action pistols can hit a pop can at 10 yards (“no problem” according to the other post), that would be ok for now to learn how to safely handle a pistol, and the basics of shooting one. She can take the pop cans with the pistol, and the Necco’s with her IZH-61 rifle.

  52. Hi folks,

    Happy Mother’s Day. A general question about our new blog and the RSS comments and feeds. I am using AOL 9.5 and and it won’t load the entries and comments RSS pages except in html coding–help.

    Mr B.

    • Hi, Mr B. I highly recomment using Google Reader (http://www.google.com/reader/) for viewing RSS feeds. It’s what a feed reader ought to be: shows you only new/unseen stuff by default, and allows you to quickly flip through items largely with single-keystroke shortcuts (if that’s your preference; mouse works fine, too). You can use it to view the blog entries themselves, as well as the comments. While you’re there, subscribe to some other fun stuff like your favorite news outlets, the Yellow forums, etc. Good stuff.

      PS, a hint on the Google Reader UI: If you use Reader’s “refresh” command while viewing “all items” or a folder full of feeds, you’re just refreshing your browser’s view of Google’s mothership. But if you go to a particular feed and hit “refresh,” Reader actually goes to the feed and looks for new entries. The Google mothership refreshes feeds at probably 30 or 60 minute intervals, but a PA blog addict can still obsessively watch comments in realtime this way.

      PPS, finding the correct RSS feed URLs for the network54 forums like the Yellow requires some digging. I can send links if you like.

      Happy Mother’s Day,

  53. Desertdweller – pop cans at 10 yards with a PPK? Reliably? You must’ve gotten a REAL good one… BB’s experience of 2.5″ at 12 feet is more in line with what I’ve seen.

    Bristolview, BB’s right about the P17 – wonderfully accurate and unbeatable for the price, but she’ll never be able to cock it by herself. It is a bit on the largish side, too… so I’m not sure she’d be able to get a proper grip.

    You might do worse than to consider a decent airsoft. Something like a WE 1911 or even the HFC 1911 should be able to hold something like a 1″ group at 15 feet. Pop cans at 10 yards might be a bit of a stretch, but I’d think you’d have a better chance with that than with a PPK.

    • Thanks Vince. I bounced back to Tom on the P17, great gun, but I agree with you my daughter could never cock it (I have one). It is also way too big for her hands, as you mention. I hadn’t thought of using an AirSoft actually. I have only seen a few, and those were just horrible. I could see the balls veering off to the left, then right, then up… all over the place. I suppose those might not have been a real good example of what a good Airsoft gun can do though. Can you recommend any decent ones to look at? I’d be amazed if they were better than a BB action pistol (or should I rephrase that… that a Umarex BB action pistol could be that bad!). Thanks for the tips, much appreciated.

  54. GenghisJan,

    Had Number 3 Son get me started with Google Reader. Thanks. It’ll take me a while to become familiar with her, but I can already see I’m going to like it. Yes! please and Thank You for those other links. Greatly appreciated.

    Mr B.

  55. Happy Mothers Day Edith.

    Just got back from a day with my mom. She’s a great old gal. She bought my dad that 551 Remington .22lr semi auto in 1948. Dad passed from cancer at 68, but mom is healthy and going strong at 83, I’m so blessed to still have her around.

    I have to agree with BG_Farmer about being prepared. My wife and I took a wild foods course back in the 70s and still love to collect and prepare wild foods once in a while. I think it would be great if we had a week each year where the citizens were taught about wild foods and living off the land. How about a tax break or credit if you could pass a survival test?

    Of course this would never happen, because our government is owned by the corporations, and now that they can sell their stuff and make their stuff in other countries for more profit, they don’t care about Americans anymore. Just let em get sick or die.. more customers for their poorly run hospitals! Or if they die, more room for the cheap labor force from the south.

    Sorry for the less than uplifting thoughts on Mothers’ Day. by-gones:-)

    On a more happy note, Saturday’s shoot went well for me. Only four of us shooting, but we had lots of fun. Ronnie Easton, the Calif. state champ in international 12fpe class, came up and we had a great seesaw match. We ended up tied at 42/48 on a pretty tough course, with several 3/8″ killzones at 14 to 16 yards. And many 1-1/4″ and 1″ at 40 to 55 yards.

    So, we went back to the 3/8″ holes that we both missed on the first time through, for a shoot-off. Ronnie went first and hit one, but missed the other. I lucked out and dropped them both! What a great match.. we both had a great time. I’ve got to write up the story and post some pics on the AARRR blog, I’ll post a link when I get it done.

    Wacky Wayne, Match Director,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range.

  56. I too would pass on the PPK at 10yds. At 20 feet it is close to ‘minute of popcan’…but not reliably.
    It’s main draw (for me) is that on a torso sized target, at 15 feet the blowback action gives a good replication of self defense shooting. Not trying to put all the shots in the little 10 ring…but learning to put quick followup shots in the torso.
    However the Beretta Elite II, which is about the same price as the PPK is far more accurate, due to, I imagine, the longer barrel and its velocity, which is 75fps greater than the PPK. I find that at 25 feet it has no problem repeatedly nailing a pop can.
    It is single action, but unlike a pellet gun there is no heavy magazine to revolve. Though the trigger has too much creep in my opinion, it is light enought that my 7 year old son has no problem with it.

  57. i am looking for a spring pellet gun for hunting squirells and rabbits out to 50 yards maybe 60 in perfect conditions. I was looking at the rws 34p pro possibly but am worried about learning how to shoot spring gun accuratly. is the 34p pro accurate enough.


    • jasom,

      The RWS 34 makes for a very good squirrel gun, but not necessarily the greatest available in that price range.
      Let me explain.

      I use it’s Chinese copy, the Ruger AirHawk, for that very purpose.
      However, you must understand that it is very hold sensitive meaning that your effective range is
      probably not going to be 50 to 60 yards. This is true, by the way, for most high powered spring guns.
      I’ve had mine for almost 2 years and have practiced with it extensively, but I still try to stay within 35 yards for all shots at game. That’s about the maximum range that I can count on a 0.75 inch group under field conditions, which is about the size of a squirrel’s head. Given that it’s shooting a .177 sized pellet, I don’t really feel comfortable with body shots on squirrels as it’s too easy to miss the vitals. Squirrels are very tough for their size with a tremendous will to live, so they’ll definitely run off unless you hit them perfectly in the body.

      Have you considered the Walther Falcon Hunter
      in .25 caliber? It’s cheaper than the
      RWS 34P right now, and it’s available in calibers up to .25.
      The larger calibers will definitely give you more leeway on your shot placement.
      Plus, it appears to be less hold sensitive than the 34P in the larger calibers.

      If I might ask, why are you considering using a springer rather than a PCP for hunting? Something like the
      Benjamin Discovery
      is a much better hunting platform than almost any springer b/c it’s so easy to shoot accurately in the field with a PCP.
      Just a thought.

  58. i well have to look at the walther i would propably buy it inn 22 for slightly flatter tragectory. i want spring because i cant quite afford the bengamin disco with scope and such i currently am shooting a begamin 392 out to 35 yards 40 every once in awhile but want more range for crow and starling hunting and the squirels.

    • Jason,

      Oddly enough, the Benjamin 392 is historically one of the best squirrel guns around. It has all of the advantages of a being easy to shoot as a PCP without the additional equipment to fill a PCP. Plus, it’s always been priced very competitively. I don’t think that you could go wrong by concentrating on wringing the last 10 yards of accuracy from your exiting 392, which will save you a good bit of money over purchasing a springer capable of accurate shots at 50 yards.

      What are you using for sights on your 392 today? If you haven’t scoped it, then that might be the first place to look for improvement. MilDots will help you in the field once you get the yardages down for each dot, which will differ from pellet to pellet. More excuses to shoot! 🙂

      Then, you could improve the trigger to make it easier to achieve consistent results. I believe that there are various DIY type modifications available or even aftermarket triggers and/or sears available that dress it up a good bit.

      Finally, don’t overlook the role that pellet quality plays in group sizes. if you aren’t already shooting high end pellets such as JSB exacts or H&N Baracudas, then there’s another place to get your groups out to 50 yards.

      I guess what I’m saying is that you probably will have better results from tweaking your existing gun than trying to pick up a new one. Spring guns aren’t really made for 50 yard hunting. A good multi-pump pneumatic though can be made accurate enough for that 50 yard shot you desire.

  59. thanks any scope recomadations planed on buying one soon. i also could get mac airguns to tune it. i have been using crossman premeirs but havnt used other pellets. i well have to go look for other mods. the thing is accurate though i have taken neck shots on dave at 25 yards with peepstes.

    • Jason,

      Basically any scope with an adjustable objective should be more accurate than the peep sight that you are using now. I prefer fixed power scopes for hunting, so something like one of the Leapers 6×32 bug busters would be my personal choice.

      Place an order for some good pellets and see how your gun likes them. Generally, in a pneumatic type airgun, heavier pellets will do better than the lighter ones. You might try a tin of JSB Heavies, JSB Exacts, H&N Baracuda, and Predator Polymag (great reviews from hunters). In fact, I’m in the process of ordering that exact line-up for my AirHawk in .177 right now.

      A neck shot at 25 yards is very accurate indeed. Well done.

  60. my only worry is that the bugbuster might be to short for the air venturi mount. I think jsb exacts well be pretty acurate i have noticed tha heavy domed pellets are also good. Also the gun seems to like soft lead better probably seels barrel and grips rifling better.

    • Let me offer another view point. I don’t hunt and I don’t have enough room to shoot farther than 10m (33feet). I have a 6X BugBuster and the cross hairs are too large for 10m. However, I think they would work fine for longer distances. I prefer a variable magnification scope of at least 3x-9x and really like a 4x-12x best. I have the Leapers variable scopes in those mags. I don’t understand the desire many shooters have for the smaller mag fixed scopes. Seems like it would limit your choices. I always felt that if I wanted a 4x or 6x I could dial it in on a variable mag scope, but in reality I end up using the highest mag on the scope or at least 9x. Again, keep in mind I only shoot 10m. I can understand the lower mags for longer distances because of reduced field of vision on high mag but seems to me variable mag still gives so many more choices.

  61. Make sure it will focus down to at least 10m (33feet). You might want to do some close target shooting around 10m.

    Look at this one. It is in the same price range and focuses to 3 yds:

    Leapers 5th Gen 3-9x32AO Bug Buster Scope, Illuminated Mil-Dot Reticle, 1/4 MOA, 1″ Tube


  62. Here’s another one:

    Leapers 5th Gen 3-9×40 AO Mil-Dot Rifle Scope with R/G, 1″ Tube


  63. Jason,
    I didn’t check out the above scopes I sent for adjustable objective, like Bobby Nations suggested, but that is very important in my opinion, also.

    You could call PA and tell them what you want and what price range and they could help you find it. I looked at the Leapers 3-7 scopes but they didn’t mention how close they focus. They might focus in but it’s just not listed. PA could tell you that. Then again, maybe you don’t really care about 10m shooting.

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