by B.B. Pelletier
This inexpensive Chinese underlever has been around in one form or another for many decades.
Today, I’ll finish the report on the B3-1 underlever rifle. I did this report for C-S, who now goes by the handle Milan, and for a couple other readers who said they wanted to know something about these older Chinese airguns. We ran Mac’s report of the Weihrauch HW97 underlever at the same time, so if you wanted to compare the two rifles it was possible. Actually, there wasn’t much to compare — just a lot to contrast, because these two air rifles couldn’t be farther apart.
I shot the rifle from a rest at 10 meters because I wasn’t confident that the rifle could perform at a longer distance. At least at 10 meters it would stay on the target paper. I used the artillery hold with the rifle rested on the backs of my fingers for maximum stability.
The firing behavior is quite harsh. Until I actually shot at targets and aimed the rifle, I didn’t notice how harsh it is, but today I can report that this rifle really hits you back when it fires. It doesn’t vibrate for a long time the way some spring guns do. Instead, it has a sudden, harsh jolt when the gun goes off. It’s not at all pleasant.
Also, I was bothered by the short pull of the stock. I had said in part 1 that it didn’t bother me that much; but when coupled with the sharp slap on firing, I find the stock too short for good work. I think this is more of a personal taste issue than an ergonomic observation, because the Air Venturi Bronco’s stock pull is even shorter, and I don’t mind it at all.
RWS Hobbys
The RWS Hobby pellet was up first. They shot high and to the left at 10 meters. I could adjust the rear sight to the right, but it was already set as low as it will go, so this rifle is probably regulated for 20 yards or so. Nothing wrong with that, but you do need to know it.
Ten RWS Hobbys went into this mediocre group at 10 meters. It measures about 1.5 inches across.
The firing cycle was quick and harsh. I didn’t appreciate how harsh it was during velocity testing in Part 2, but with the rifle held against my shoulder, it really irritated me. And, the trigger-pull is far too heavy to do good work.
JSB Exact 8.4-grain domes
The next pellet up was the JSB Exact dome. These weigh 8.4 grains, and they seem to fit the breech of the rifle quite well. However, once again, the group was around 1.5 inches for 10 shots at 10 meters.
The group is centered in the bull better, but really no tighter than the Hobbys.
Crosman Premier lites
The last pellet I tested was the Crosman Premier 7.9-grain pellet. Usually, it’s very accurate in most guns, but the B3-1 didn’t seem to want to shoot anything well. So, another 1.5-inch group of 10…more or less.
Another so-so group with the B3-1. At least the rifle is consistent.
As you know, I tested this rifle to satisfy the curiosity of several readers, but also to satisfy my own curiosity. For years, I’ve been reading that the Chinese airguns aren’t that bad. Well, if this one is any example, they still are!
I’ve also read many glowing reports on the internet about fantastic B3-1 rifles that deliver performance beyond that of the finest airguns Europe had to offer. Don’t you believe it. These rifles are at the extreme low end of performance and only by careful tuning can they be brought up to a level that is partially acceptable.
Volvo,
I should have some spare Leapers Accushot mounts here in both high and medium sizes. Shoot me an email if you’re in need and I’ll get them to you tomorrow. Oops…Which is technically now, uh, today.
Derrick,
Thanks for the offer, but I will pick up a set locally assuming I can get the Solo today. I’m getting ready to call and see if the FedEx folks will get her to the facility rather than taking it for another joy ride. Wish me luck.
B.B.
Got me sold, I think I need a dozen of them there B3-1s. If I tape them together, they will make great shotgun groups:-)
Wacky Wayne
Wayne:
LOL.
You know I was only thinking the other day about a double barrel (Up and Under) break barrel air rifle.
Two shots at once of course what with having to share one spring.
DaveUK
Dave,
That’s an interesting idea:-)
But I think the duct taping of 6 on top and 6 below, offset for cocking:-) is the best idea.
I’ll build a rack for it, and mount it on my burro. I thought he might grow more, but my feet still touch the ground, which is ok, since he needs my help to move along. Watch out starlings on the wire!
Wacky Wayne,
Match Director,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Dave -gatling air gun , you san always cock it sideway 😉 better gatling PCP 🙂
CAN not “san” how can shoot when i cant even type …… Dave when you make that “gatling air gun”of yours dont give it to me i have poor vision 😉 kidding men letters are too small
B.B. thank you for the blog ,although CBSD you were right there is some more important problems that i need to solve (more important then airguns,and blog ),well matter of the fact is that i dont see rikib here on the blog i would hate to see that someone leave becouse he was “on my side” ,so rikib -we will keep in touch and guys it was all my foult i took the topic far away from the subject the other day so please do blame ME 🙂
Milan,nobody wants either of you guys to go…REALLY! Lots of us here talk with Email to each other.That is all that was suggested.Every person who comes here is important.We as a group are the world’s airgun community.Like making good food,you need all the ingrediants to make it good.I am constantly impressed by your progress in English!You do very well.BB and Edith have created and built this airgun blog over many years of hard work!I hope you will continue to enjoy it,for the same reason you first came.
No hard feelings i ll stick around and jump in when i need to, or if you guys ask me something it is cool 🙂
Milan,
What Frank said goes for me too. Thanks Frank, sorry I’ve been so busy, to visit more with you too, my friend. Your gun cabinets must be overflowing by now:-)
I’ve been thinning and focusing on field target type stuff now, as you know, since you helped with the thinning:-)
Wacky Wayne,
Wayne,did you see USFT #230 sell on the Yellow? 2,350$ and it went quick!It won’t be long before you come after #92,’cuz it has snakeskin grips!!We haven’t talked in a while….but that’s OK because you have been doing great things and I have no more room for your great deals!!LOL
Frank,
I saw that one when it first listed, right after the same guy put up a real nice pair of LD pistols. (I think they are still available) I think that included a 10-50×60 Nikko Diamond too for that price, which is a total steal. I’m too tapped out this time of year, even for that good a deal, so let it pass. I need to spend time practicing with USFT#44 and #6, instead of testing out another one anyway:-). I’ve got 4 major contests coming up soon. Lots of traveling this fall..
But, since I can’t convince Tom and Edith to part with their special collector USFT, I am having Tim make me a .22cal 32fpe bench rest version, with the newly designed, double rifling, all US made barrels. The first test guns came out great and are doing some amazing groups! Mine will come in the second 10 they make.
Here is part of a comment, from the results of a 50 yard bench rest contest they had at LDs windy ranch, just posted on the Yellow… LD (Larry Durham) said:
“Wayne,
The .361” “group” is the AVERAGE ctc for ten separate three shot groups on the same card, with individual groups of:
0.20″, 0.40″, 0.45″, 0.25″, 0.37″, 0.24″, 0.36″, 0.47″, 0.36″, 0.51″
Yes, I have to say I can now truly feel comfortable in claiming the USFT gun is also a darned good platform for open class benchrest shooting as well, at least for the fifty yard kind we do out West.”
The whole thread is linked here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/451309/message/1281983546/fifty+yard+Airgun+Benchrest+shoot+results%2C+Temecula%2C+Aug+15%2C+2010
Now that’s a collector piece one can shoot:-)
Wacky Wayne,
Match Director,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Milan,
I agree 100% with Frank B. No one EVER asked either you or rikib to leave “because he was on your side.”
But there is the problem! My comments were not personal but he took them personal then started to retaliate.
This blog should never be “us versus them”! So there should never have been a “your side versus my side”! Nor was there as far as I was concerned!
Each person has a right to voice and honest opinion. And each person has a right to RESPECTFULLY disagree with that opinion.
But when you disagree, please bring hard evidence to the table to support your side. Please don’t get personal and start calling names or make sarcastic comments or just say things like “you are wrong”! If you think someones opinion is not correct just present evidence why you think so.
And remember just because one other “expert” agrees with you doesn’t make it so! The “experts” are often wrong too. Classic case was the controversy of the “round world” vs the “flat world” ALL the “experts” at that time thought the world was flat and ALL were wrong!
But PCP -sure i took this “song story” too far but i think that this(that) all has been taken waaay over proportions and i am grateful for RIKIB s support ,CJr -s and Daves support -it all could have been said soo much more politely .So blame me Dont Blame Rikib
Milan.
I don’t think I was impolite, but I DO agree it could have been worded much better and more precisely.
For that I do apologize to both you and rikib and beg your forgiveness.
pcp4me,
As far as I’m concerned I would just like to put it in the past and get on with the blogging in peace.
rikib
PCP-no hard feelings, water under the bridge …. 🙂
Milan,
I did not go away. I was just looking to see what posts went on during the early morning hours of the blog that we interfered with. I’ll be here! 🙂 Try an get a free “Hotmail” e-mail address.
rikib
🙂 🙂 🙂
rikib,
I was posting the same time you were. See my other comment. No one has stated that your comments “interfered” with other comments. Since all comments can be posted, that was never an issue. I think it was the heated discussions you were having with others that was the main issue.
Edith
Milan,
I really doubt rikib has left the blog. I’ll bet he’s taking some time off from posting comments to see what it’s like. He wants to know if anyone mentions his name, if he’s missed, if we’re talking about him, etc.
Rikib had stated that pcp4me had assigned himself as the blog police. But, when rikib told Wayne and Brian in Idaho that they couldn’t post certain things on the blog…right after he told pcp4me that he didn’t have the authority to be the blog police…he had, in essence, made himself the blog police! I called him on it via private email.
I wrote rikib 2 times yesterday. He never responded. Maybe he was embarrassed that he had unwittingly done the very thing that he chided others for doing. That, of course, is a human trait…doing the very thing we don’t want to do or doing the very thing we dislike in others.
And adding a smiley face doesn’t necessarily soften the blow of harsh words, which rikib had done at least one time during the blog police discussion. A smiley face at the end of a comment does not reduce the impact of the words that preceded it, because you’ve already reacted to the words before you get to the smiley face. As a result, several heated discussions followed and some people became angry. Harsh words were exchanged.
If rikib wants to post, he’s welcome to do so. I encourage everyone to continue to speak freely. This is a great place to talk about airguns and all the other things that impact our hobby and our lives. We’re like a big family. We’re very different but have found common ground in our love for the shooting sports. Let’s enjoy each other and embrace our differences and commonalities. Everyone posts off-topic…including B.B. and me. All I ask is that you use common sense when doing so.
Rikib’s decision is his own. Do not let the decision of others impact your decision to enjoy yourself on this blog, make comments or ask questions.
Edith
Edith i agree -we all make mistakes and we all should try to find our way to accept that fact that we are not perfect and i would really like to get over that silly argue 🙂
Edith,
I was not looking to see if my name was mentioned or if I was missed. I admit I was wrong in letting things get out of control and too personal. For that I am sorry to all the members here.
rikib
rikib,
Great, welcome back..
EVERYONE makes mistakes! let it go…
Like Edith said, “were like a big family” and as such, we better be tolerant with each others “stuff” as we go through it.
Every hear Fish say “By-Gones”… if not, your missing a funny show. “Alley McBeal”
Might be a little “left wing” and wacky for some here, but an independent like me gets to laughing on the floor. Actually they make fun of both sides of the issues and get you thinking while they get you laughing.
Wacky Wayne,
Match Director,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
BB
I think that when someone gets one of these that is actually a good shooter it is by accident. I like to tinker. I also like my airguns to shoot accurately when I pull them from the box.
Thanks to Mac for yesterday’s report. I have been looking forward to a review on the HW97. I was considering one of these as well when I purchased my TX200. It seems you can’t go wrong with either one.
Slinging lead:
A pellet catcher that can stop a 9mm?Love it 🙂
DaveUK
BB and everyone,
What would the sound level of the HW97 be compare to TX200?
Also, in general, how would the HW77 (or the HW77K if it is any different) be compare to both HW97 and TX200?
Thanks.
tdung
To my ear, TX-200 has a smoother sound and it is more quiet. I guess that is due to sort of “S-word” in its barrel shroud 😉 HW97’s sound is dry and “cracky” compared to TX200.
As HW77 is made to be used mostly with iron sights, it has a lower comb and less pronounced cheekpiece. A friend of mine uses HW77 with a hand-made hard leather “cheekpiece” to make it more comfortable with scope. In other aspects it seems to be just like HW97.
duskwight
The HW97K is slightly louder (at the muzzle) than the TX200 as noted. Probably due to the lack of a barrel shroud as on the TX. The springer noises (very little noise in either gun) are about the same. With the 97 “moderator tube” properly modified, my guess is they are nearly identical in sound at the muzzle.
As to the 97 versus 77, I asked Mr. Weihrauch by email some time ago about the differences, he simply stated that the 97 action and parts were “more refined than the 77, although virtually identical on paper”. Being a manufacturer myself, I believe he was saying that small, subtle items such as polishing or edge-breaking and/or lubing of the 97 had been improved (no, wrong word) taken to the next level. Not unusual as products mature and mfg. processes become more familiar to employees over time. Also, the 77 and 97 have been so popular for so many years that 1000’s of units have passed through the factory, which inherently adds to the quality of a well designed product.
Is it just me or does the JSB target resemble a Fibonacci spiral? I’m not a math or statistics guy….
Fibonacci Sequence is: 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55 …, n-2 + n-1, …
So, depending on your margin of error, you *could* make those shots fit that pattern. 😉
Jim
Can i ask something that is completely different then stuff we usually talk about -what is the recipe to make BAD GUN(imprecise gun ),is it the rifling ,steel ,what …. ???How do they do it 🙂
Milan
Cheap soft steel, bad equipment with high tolerances, bad engineering or copying.
duskwight
Can it be just bad rifling of the bore ???
The problem with really cheap guns is not just a poor barrel. The whole thing is poorly made. The parts fit together only well enough to make it operate. That is about all. Very much like the cars that were being made here in the late 70’s and early 80’s. They looked like they were made from odd parts that were never intended to fit together.
We have a show on TV that is called ‘Junkyard Wars”. Two teams are given the job of constructing devices out of junk, then competing with each other to see who made the best working device. I often get the impression that this is how the manufacturers get their ideas on how to make low priced airguns.
twotalon
Maybe what Leo Tolstoy says about families at the beginning of Anna Karenina is also true of airguns. “Every happy family is alike. Every unhappy family is unlike in its own unique way.” 🙂
Matt61
Sorry. It’s: “Every happy family is alike. Every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.”
Matt61
Milan:
Money is the driver when making and selling any product so will dictate quality.
Thus follows.
Poor materials is the start of the rot,also poor tooling and bad workmanship but materials hold the key.
If a company is spending top dollar on materials they will pay top dollar for tools and the workers who use them.
Having had experience of manufacturing processes I can say nothing saps a workers moral more than working with sub standard material and rubbish tools.
Sloppy work then sets in even amongst the most conscientious workers.
DaveUK
Dave can i ask you something can you buy Slavia 634 OR 631 in UK and how much does it cost !?
With those guns (631 is still my favorite ,and more accurate for now…)i can cut a rose from 10 m off hand 😉
Here (in Canada) I was only able to find the Slavia 630 at 189$ Canadian.
Milan:
I have been searching all over and can find no Slavia stockists in the UK so far.
I found a couple of older Slavia’s for sale second hand but they were not the 631-634 either.
Even the reviews by Slavia owners were from folk outside the UK.
This is strange because Skoda cars are very popular here and we have no problem importing them.
Maybe the Slavia 631 and 634 are too much gun for our home office to take 🙂
DaveUK
They used to be imported by Edgar Bros. But no more. You can find both the 631 and and the 634 second hand from c. £120
Milan,
I have a friend who is a retired tool and die worker. His retirement was hastened when the company he was working for, Singer Industries who made precision guidance sub-assemblies for military applications, started replacing their machining tools and lathes with Chinese products. They were much cheaper than American or Japanese products but Joe said they couldn’t hold a tolerance through a single process! That means the gear or screw that you started to make would have a different measurement at the end of the process than what you started out with! He retired in disgust.
Milan, that’s what the Chinese airguns are made on – tools that can’t hold a setting but hey, you get what you pay for.
Fred PRoNJ
Milan,
Recipe for a BAD GUN:
1-First have a goal that low/cheap production cost is the most important ingredient
2-Parts will be massed produced with low tolerances. They will not fit together well. This will guarantee that stock screws won’t stay tight, compression chamber will be out of round, piston seal won’t seal, breech seal will fit loosely, etc. all together promising a gun that shoots inconsistently and harsh.
3-Put a trigger on the gun that can’t be adjusted and is so hard to pull that there’s no way you can keep the gun on target when it finally goes off
kevin
Meant to say “without” low tolerances.
kevin
Milan,
With the Chinese guns it is BAD quality control. You find quite a few like this one which simply won’t shoot. But once in a while you find one which is a gem!
I experienced this with both the B-3 and the Tech Force 59.
With the B-3 I probably returned 6 guns to Cummins before I got a good one. And it shot WAY better than the one tested here. At 25 ft it shot one hole groups about the total size of a large pea. Disassembly and application of tars and lubricants resulted in a really smooth firing cycle. Some honing and smoothing of trigger parts resulted in an acceptable trigger. Sold that gun for twice what I paid.
With the TF 59 it took 3 returns to Compasseco to get a good one. All that one needed was tars and lubricants and a Charlie da Tuna trigger and a TF 3 X 9 X 32 AO scope to shoot really well. One hole groups at 25 ft of .15 – .20 inches are quite possible with the best pellets. It shoots CHP’s and H & N Finale Match the best as does the B-3.
So what I am saying is SOME very limited Chinese guns do what people are bragging on them to do. But I have bought and returned many of them and in my experience the ratio is about 1 in 15. Not good and not worth the bother IMHO! Once I get rid of the TF 59 I am done with Chinese guns in the foreseeable future.
Any future purchases will guns of known quality.
I guess one of the clear red-flags (on one, un-named Chinese airun sellers site)is his statement that he personally inpsects and shoots the guns before sending them to the customer, thus insuring quality? Actually, I think he may only be insuring that the gun cocked and shot at least once! You can’t inspect quality into products. Ask Dr. Demming and Phil Crosby.
I did business in Nanjing and Shanghai a few years back, and you haven’t seen “quality” until you see what is called a foundry where they actually made molds in the dirt floor and poured steel into them to make parts.
They are better now, but far, far, far from the 400 year old metalworking and gun making skills of Europe and the US. Regardless, how does it make any sense to buy the $99 gun, add a $40 spring, $10 seal, $12 O-ring kit, $7 worth of fasteners made from real steel, a $100 scope and feel good about it? I don’t get it.
Kinda like turbo-charging a Yugo isn’t it?
In short, then, its a piece of cr@p.
}=^{|
Nooblegend:
‘Cr**’
The good news is,at nearly three feet long there is plenty of it 🙂
DaveUK
LOL
B.B.
Very impressive performance. The one you have and the one that I have show consistency from gun to gun. They both will, in fact, shoot a pellet in the general direction in which they are aimed.
twotalon
B3-1
Great thing about airguns is that anyone that wants one can save and afford at least one descent quality piece to enjoy. This would not be it.
Twotalon,
Bought a brand new 1980 Monza Spider and it died on me with all of two thousand miles on it. You are absolutely right about that era of cars. When was the last time you say one of those or 1978 Mustang II driving by?
My old 69 Baracuda was getting to be pretty well shot, and looking for a new car turned me off to American products. I bought a Datsun king cab 4×4. It had it’s own problems, but not mechanical. Turned from red to pink, and rusted out at all the seams. Bought an 86 Astro and am still driving it.
twotalon
The Datsun was an 81.
twotalon
BB:
Thank you for covering the B3-1.
I think it is good to explore all avenues of the air gun market and lay to rest some of the over optimistic expectations guys like me have of our Chinese rifles.
While we are on the subject of the B-3 though and monkeying around with their workings 🙂
If added metal washers to the front of the spring inside the piston of my B-3,I will add weight to the piston and increase the pre load on the spring.
Is that correct?
If so, what effects will this have on the rifle good and bad?
Cheers,
DaveUK
DaveUK,
Yes, that would add weight to the piston. I would also add a small amount of preload to the spring. If, however, you added too many washers, the spring would be unable to compress far enough to cock the rifle.
It’s hard to predict exactly what will happen as there are many interrelated aspects.
My best guess with a B3–and this is simply speculation–is that the felt recoil will increase slightly (heavier piston moving forward) and the velocity will go up maybe a couple feet per second. Unless the pellet fit in the breech is really loose–then the piston will hit the front of the compression chamber a bit harder (again, more piston weight) making the firing cycle quite harsh and noisy. I’d also think the velocity increase would be short lived.
Editing myself here. I meant to say “IT would also add a small amount of preload to the spring”
Dave : Yes it will. Adding thin polished washers at the ends will help with spring torque, but if you add to much it won’t cock. In a nut shell ,the best you can get out of a B3 is to de-burr and polish the internals, use a spring from a Quest, or one from of the cleaning &spare part kits sold on the web, and stay with a leather seal. The leather seal is most forgiving of the not anywhere near round compression tubes on these guns. Also, properly crowning the barrel and giving it a good JB bore paste scrubbing will really help. If you do this, you will end up with a ugly, 6 ft/lb gun that will shoot into an inch or so at 20 yards consistantly, with a pellet it likes. If that’s all you need then they are are OK. For myself though, I prefer more.
derrick and Robert:
Thank you.
The pain over gain ratio is too much.
I will replace the piston seal with a DIY leather one though on the next strip down.
Mainly just to learn how to do it as a useful skill in the future.
Thanks again,
DaveUK
B.B.,
Why didn’t you test the chinese made Glitwad BS pellet in 8.4 gr. in your B3-1? They shoot great in mine. I’ve taken small deer out to 120 yards using this pellet in my B3-1.
kevin
Kevin,
You’re kidding right? First you would be lucky to hit a small barn with a B-3 at 120 yds and second the remaining energy at 120 yds would not kill a small sparrow!
pcp4me,
I must have gotten a good tin of those pellets.
kevin
Kevin,
Yeah that was the tin labeled “for use in modern 30-06 firearms only”!
Kevin,
LOL. Told you not to drink so much. An 03 Springfield really does NOT resemble a B-3 no matter how much you claim it does!
pcp4me,
You must have some of these pellets too. Very unique. Only ones I’ve ever seen with primers in the front.
kevin
Kevin,
I have just one tin of Glitwads that I’ve been saving for a special occasion. I have them in the brown tin, the ones that weren’t supposed to get shipped out of China. While the nominal weight is 8.4 grains, I find they range from 2.5 grains to 7 grams. Only one in ten is anywhere near 8.4 grains.
I understand you used to be a spear-chucker? It would appear that you are returning to the world stage in triumph. Or in a Triumph.
Something like that.
B.B.
B.B.,
LOL!!! Okay, NOW I can rest easy. You’re back.
kevin
How were you able to throw the rifle that far?
derrick,
Dislocated my shoulder. Couldn’t shoot for weeks. LOL!
kevin
derrick,
I think Kevin was a javelin thrower in his former life.
Mr B.
What is interesting when folks talk about these cheapest airguns from China, and accuracy & value, is that not many compare them to our own cheapest domestically produced airgun. Why not blog the Crosman 760 and this gun, for accuracy, power, and ergonomics, at ten meters? I’m betting that the 760 will equal or beat the B3, even the smooth bore version and with BB’s. The rifled barrel version will for sure. The 760 is a plastic pneumatic and the B3 is a poorly machined cheap steel springer, but if that’s all you wanted to spend on an airgun, they are both in the same league price wise. Also, I’m betting that the folks who would buy them , are not hardcore airgunners, but looking at the cheap price, or are mostly kids. A 760 is a way better choice for a airgun you’d give a kid to shoot. Robert
Robert,
I have a Crossman 760, and even though it’s a smooth-bore, it definitely outperforms this B3. It may produce more flyers than some more expensive guns, but it won’t product a scatter plot like the B3. For being a smooth-bore, the 760 is remarkably accurate.
Of course, we’re talking about performance with pellets. The 760 is horrible with BB’s!
Regards,
Victor
Victor : I have a couple old 760’s. One has the early blow off style valve , made when Crosman was in Fairport ,NY. The other is from when they were owned by Coleman Products and is the kind where you have to cock the gun to pump it up and fire it. Both are smooth bore and are quite accurate, and just as powerful as the half dozen or so of B3’s I’ve tuned up. I may take and fit a 1760 barrel to one some day as a winter project, if I can find the time and a barrel. The 1377 is another gun which will equal or beat a cheap China gun any day for the same money, Robert
Either Chinese guns have really improved in the last 10 years or this one is definitely a bad example.
There are three Chinese guns in our family. Two of the B3-1 AK lookalikes and one XS-B9.
At 10yds all three are capable of putting 10 shots in an area that can be covered by a dime…offhand.
At 30yds they can put 10 shots in a 2-3″ circle…again offhand.
I’m hoping this is the norm and that it is just that the Chinese guns have really improved…there are a lot of major ‘brands’ out there that are in reality made in China and I’d hate to think this is indicative of their accuracy (I really don’t think it is anymore).
The only bad thing I’ve found about Chinese guns is that they are a lot like Ikea furniture. There is always one little thing wrong. (the cocking pivot pin on my B9 feel out a day after I got it and one of the B3 folding stock pivot pin did likewise…both easily repaired….though of course it makes on wonder if any of the major stress components are going to crap out at some time).
I’ve found that what is often said about the Chinese guns is in fact true. Out of the box they are occasional shooters that are fun. With a good tune and some TLC they can be great shooters. If you don’t like to tinker they probably aren’t a good buy. After teardown, lubing, loct-titing and such each of my three Chinese guns price out at nearly the same as my Slavia 630. And I do doubt that they will last as long and they sure don’t have the same finish.
But I don’t think you can paint the current Chinese guns with the same brush as the test gun which is probably 20 years old.
Matt61 made a good point yesterday, we should not discount all Chinese air rifles given B.B.’s positive comments on some of the other models. With that said, I also am no great fan of Chinese manufacturing. In my industry, I see first hand the problems both with poor manufacturing and outsourcing of domestic jobs. I think we should all pray for higher fuel prices. Before you all hang me out to dry, hear me out. I saw an almost immediate improvement in competition when fuel prices went way up last year. All of a sudden domestic manufactured furnishings were much more competitive because the cost of shipping closed the gap a good bit. The Clients payed attention – close in cost without the headache of shipping from China, shorter lead times and better quality – domestic made sense. It stretched my pocket book with gas prices, but I could handle it. The benefit, in my opinion outweighed my personal cost. Now gas prices are back down, and the manufacturing has gone back to China. Our loss I say, because we could have continued to grow our manufacturing back from the brink and actually put a lot of people back to work.
Fused,
Right on! The pain that people feel when out of work is not an abstract concept. People feel real pain, on many levels, when they are out of work. The dignity of a human is worth far more than “more profit”, and often times, that’s what we’re really talking about. In so many cases it is not that profit isn’t already being made, it’s that the lust for “more profit” is the only motivation.
My wife and I searched through every store in a large mall looking for ANY table-ware that wasn’t made in China. Not a one! Didn’t matter what “wholesome” looking celebrity was on display, no a one was made outside of China.
According to historians, every great empire had one thing in common when they fell. Every great empire fell when they became more consumer than producer. Sound familiar?
Regards,
Victor
Boy did you say a mouthfull!I hope folks know just how hugely relevant this fact is.History does repeat itself,only the names and dates change…
This very thing can happen to any organization. I read the history of Sun Microsystems. They ignored their own history regarding their own success. Historically, the success of Sun was it’s ability to be innovative. Towards the end, they started buying every technology that they could, and ignored their own homegrown talent. They were buying companies with no solid plan as to how they would exploit them.
Necessity is the mother of all invention. That’s why their own inventions were so fruitful. They effectively got into the practice of buying solutions for which there was no need. Kind of backwards, but consistent with a hording mentality.
I need to know which pellets work best in my air-guns, therefore I need to do more testing.
With the Chinese (and Koreans) owning their own transportation companies, and using (primarily) diesel fuels and fuel-oils for their own sea-going freighters etc, U.S. gasoline prices are only marginally and indirectly an indicator of their (Chinese) costs. We would have to cut minimum wages in half, and crude oil prices (not gasoline)would have to increase three-fold to cause the Chinese to even think about slowing down their exports.
Ever seen the Hyundai cars in Hyundai containers being unloaded from Hyundai freighters by Hyundai cranes and placed onto Hyundai tractor-trailers for delivery to the U.S.? They don’t worry about gasoline prices at the pump over here. They have their own fuel pricing sewn-up with our Saudi friends on a yearly or longer basis. Same (or more so) with the Chinese. That’s why they are buying all the potential oil producing land they can find in Africa. It completes the circle of supply.
And now the Chinese are peacefully exploiting the natural resources (minerals) in Afghanistan while we’re at war there, and driving up our deficit.
I’m going to peacefully exploit my huge stockpile of pellets and go shoot some targets.
What you said makes it even scarier. The companies I’ve been involved with are hardly such global players so were subject to at least some pressure on shipping costs. I’m sure they’ll figure that out too beofre too long. The silver lining is that it didn’t take much to spark domestic product demand. Hopefully we can get some back before it’s too late.
This review,while fair for the gun, does not give you an indication of chinese quality. You picked a very cheap and crappy gun. Chinese manufacturers make many airguns that are very well made, and are not just “flukes”. Look at the QB78/79. an incredibly popular and reliable chinese gun. Look at the BAM b28, a near perfect clone of the Diana 350 magnum. or the BAM b40, a close replica of the AA tx200.
What you’re doing is like picking up a crosman 760, and saying that because it doesn’t shoot well, that people are wrong and that american airguns aren’t of high quality.
Be fair. Using this gun as an indication for an entire industry is extremely ignorant.
You are bringing up good points that actually support your opposition. Look at what you said – “Look at the QB78/79. an incredibly popular and reliable chinese gun. Look at the BAM b28, a near perfect clone of the Diana 350 magnum. or the BAM b40, a close replica of the AA tx200.” That is the problem and the true cost of Chinese manufacturing. All of those are ripping us off by copying good quality products and undercutting the price. Just because they can, doesn’t make it right. Don’t get me wrong, I am not actually as conservative as I’m coming across, but this is a big problem. Fair is fair and they are not accountable for what they’re doing.
fused…so do you use a computer. I assume you do as you are posting here.
Mostly western technology…but I’ll pretty much guarantee your computer was made in the orient and definitely has made in China parts.
Do you use generic drugs…
Do you drive a Japanese car (the Japanese auto industry started years ago by cloning American autos…check some of the Datsuns and Toyotas from the 60’s…clones of cars like the Ford Falcon and such).
It’s part of life.
Not saying it’s good or bad…but unless you’re very well off most people can’t afford to buy only ‘made in the USA’ (I won’t get into union bashing here 😉 )
It’s the blatant copying that raises the issue for me. I’m not an isolationist and support a global economy, but a fair global economy. In my opinion practices by some Chinese manufacturers are not fair – plain and simple. This is the reason why I do not own a Chinese clone air rifle. I have wanted the original that certain ones copy for a long time and really wish that I could buy one, but alas, I cannot – so I do not.
Fused…I agree to a point. It’s where for me the union thing comes into play.
I’m going to really stretch the issue here…books.
I read a lot.
And because I’m a photographer I collect some of the ‘high-end’ coffee table books.
A great book is ‘Workers’ by Sebastio Salgado (a photo essay of the worlds workers by one of the current masters of the medium of photography)
When the book came out 20 years ago it sold for about $200.
Now it is a big book. But I have a very good friend in the print business and he says…there’s $10 worth of paper in the book…25% is markup…the artist gets $5 and $100 is union print shop wages.
A couple of years ago publishers started to outsource to Indian, China and japan. You can now buy the same book on Amazon (printed in India) for $75.
Sorry, but I (and many of my friends) can’t afford to keep someone in a lifestyle I can’t afford when there are alternatives.
I love photography and actually have that same book! Have you seen William Garnett Aerial Photographs? Another of my favorites. Photography and art in general is an excellent example. I don’t for a minute think that artists are treated fairly and the reproduction of their images is out of their control to a large degree. And that’s exactly what I’m talking about. It’s not fair! And if it’s not fair, we should say so. In my industry, I see artists getting ripped off all the time. I actually had a purchasing agent propose the following and understand that it happens in my industry all the time – We specified a series of images for use in a project and they (the client or purchasing agent) would take the picture of that image and have it knocked off (changed slightly) so they don’t have to pay for the royalty, they also have it printed, framed and shipped from… wait for it… China. I also get ripped off all the time. Someone goes into one of the Hotels that I have designed – they like what they see so the take photos and copy it in their next project without ever having contacted me. That is real work that I could have done and employed real people producing the work. The unscrupulus owner benefits, everyone else suffers.
Fused…I think in essence we are on the same page.
(BTW glad to hear of you thoughts on photography…Workers is one of the best photographic works since the likes of Farm Administration work done in the early 20th century).
I totally agree that the artist gets the short end of the stick. But Salgado gets $5 (or more, or less) whether the book is printed in the USA, Switzerland, China or India.
And the quality of the current book is on par with the earlier version…barring of course that the ink isn’t lead based 😉
My issue is the labour production costs. I’m all for a fair wage for a days labour.
But I have just as big an issue with a GM line worker who makes upwords of $78/hr (these are 2007 GM stats), far more than a nurse or someone in harms way in the military as I do sweat shop labour in China.
I won’t deal with companies I know use sweat shop labour…but I also try not to deal with companies who pay $80/hr for a $35/hr job.
(and before anyone gets on my case for being a union basher…the troubles the Big 3 have experienced of late is partly due to exhorbitant labour costs…that’s a fact).
I try and buy ‘Western’ whenever possbible. But (for example), when a 9 year old wants an airgun that looks ‘military’, the BAM AK clone can’t be beat. And though I bought the XS-B9 on a whim…it is pretty cool looking and with practice I can put 10 shots (what it’s clip holds) into a 3″ circle at 30yds in just about 20 seconds.
In 20 seconds I’d be struggling to get off the third shot with the Slavia 😉
Nick T,
Don’t forget the bam b26 a good clone of the HW95/R9. Tuned it’s a great value and good gun.
kevin
Kevin: Good value as long as your shooting at targets under 20 yards. My RWS 320 (B-20) needed about 20 hours of careful airgunsmithing and $75 worth of Maccari parts to make it shoot into a inch at the range mentioned above. It broke it’s original spring within the first 1000 shots, and tried to slam fire on me several times due to the poor copy of the rekord trigger, with poor quality tempered screws in it. In contrast , my .177 HW R-10 bought new in 1986 fired over 10,000 shots of kodiaks, and never broke it’s original spring. I replaced it and the piston seal with new Maccari replacements last summer, and it will shoot into an inch or less at 50 yards.
I think that most airgun shooters never shoot their guns at targets beyond 10 meters , nor do they hunt beyond the 10 yard opportunity at a semi tame bird feeder raiding squirrel. As such ,they have no appreciation of practical , useful accuracy in a airgun. Robert
Robert from Arcade,
I’ll paraphrase you, “no comparison between weihrauch and bam for quality and/or accuracy.” Agreed.
“Good value as long as your shooting at targets under 20 yards.” I’m going to defend the two Bam B-26 guns that I had tuned by Mike Melick, mounted leapers scopes on them and gave them away to the twin boys of a friend. I know each of these guns has shot in excess of 7,000 pellets (14,000 pellets total) because their dad orders pellets through me. The guns have had normal airgun problems, i.e., loose stock screws, barrels needed cleaning, one gun got very pellet picky, etc. but they are still shooting strong a fairly accurately.
These boys come to my property on a regular basis and shoot squirrels out of my fruit trees. 30 yard shots, off hand, by these two teenagers is common. One of them shot a squirrel out of my tall cottonwood and it lasered 43 yards.
I’ve never owned a Bam B-20 so can’t comment.
kevin
Kevin: You probably know this, but other’s who may read the comments may not. The B-20 was a earlier version of the B-26. RWS imported their version, the 320 which I have (I received it as a gift about 1999 or 2000), and they had a lot of problems with them. This was when they were based in NJ., Cabela’s and others sold the RWS 320. I think Airgun Express who PA bought out also carried them. It is perhaps a bit better finished than a run of the mill B-20/26 , and has the RWS logo on the receiver tube. I’ve bought parts like springs, piston, and breech seals for them from Umarex as recently as a year ago. Macarri used to make a kit( seal, spring , and top hat) for the B-20/320 but dis-continued it, due to the variations in compression tube size and quality control.
As a point of interest and as evidence of poor Chinese QC, I recall that it was Mike Melick who mentioned that he installed a Air -Venturi spring and guide kit into a B-30 clone of the Diana 48. It apparently didn’t work well. This was reported on a popular forum, and the members there then proceeded to bash PA and the Air -Venturi guide/spring kit. No one questioned that the kit was intended for a Diana 48/52, not the clone. I’ve seen this with other parts, and question the wisdom of internet airgun gods who say the clones are the same and everything that works in the originals, will work in the clones. It will not always, as I have tried to subsitute parts in my own guns for reseach and personal interest, Robert.
Actually, PA sold the BAM line for awhile which is how I got my B30 but discontinued it apparently because of the many returns. If BAM represents the high end of Chinese airguns then the problems are diffused throughout their industry.
Matt61
cowboystar dad,
I think you get what you pay for. Though not always with the Chinese gun. In general, I think the higher priced Chinese guns exhibit better quality control though it is still spotty and you still get ringers.
I once bought a TF 79TH “target” gun from Compasseco for about $180 – $200. That gun was a CO2 “competition grade” gun with diopter and regular rear sights included and a 11 mm scope rail! It also had caps included to use 2 12 gm CO2 or bulk fill CO2!
The stock was any thing but beautiful but did fit me like a glove. Balance was near perfect and with the diopter sights or a scope it was superbly accurate! The trigger was fully adjustable and quite good for a Chinese gun. The finish on the metal again was quite good for a Chinese gun.
Alas within only a month or two with less than 1000 rounds through it the seals failed miserably and it would not hold CO2. I sent it back with a request for a full refund.
I regret that to this day! I since have found a firm that will deburr and reseal this gun with “modern durable seals” for around $30 plus shipping and for about $90 will do a full tune on it! The full tune promises to improve the accuracy, trigger pull, smoothness of cocking and firing and what ever else. Since accuracy at 10 M from a rest was in the range of .10 inches ctc I find it hard to believe much improvement is possible.
My point here is that even though this was a really nice gun from a shooters view it was still less than desirable as the stock was fairly plain and not very attractive and the seals were notorious for failing on that gun! And the price was still getting up in the moderate range. So again the factor of poor Chinese quality control reared it’s ugly head!
Part of me still wants that gun back as it was far and away the best “target” gun I ever owned. More accurate than my Daisy 953 and a much better trigger and way more fun to shoot when using bulk fill CO2.
The TF rifles are an exception and I don’t have an issue with these. As far as I have been able to glean, they are not copies of something else. Your words are true enough for them: “you get what you pay for.” With the copies, unfortunately you get what someone else has paid for with their hard work or scruples.
Fused,
Actually all Tech Force guns ARE copies of something. The TF 79TH is an exact copy of a QB78 as far as the action goes with a thumb hole stock and removable diopter sights which can be replaced with a regular rear sight or scope. Both sights provided but no scope.
And the QB78 is I believe a copy of the Crosman 160.
Supposedly the difference with the Tech Force guns is that Compasseco enforces higher quality control standards with their Chinese suppliers. That said I have had many problems with Tech Force guns to the point I now own only a TF 59 rifle which is a joy to shoot and two crappy TF pistols which would make good trot line weights. Only own the two pistols cause I can’t get rid of em. Guess I need to give em to some one I don’t like!
Interestingly enough, Tech Force pellets are really great! They easily exceed the accuracy of RWS hobby’s in most of my guns and in some come very close to the accuracy of H & N Match Finale and CHPs which are my favorite two pellets in that order. So that makes the Tech Force pellets third on my list! I was blown away by the accuracy of these pellets in some of my guns, including the TF 59.
Actually, pcp4me, the TF guns are not copies of the QB guns. They ARE QB guns, and frequently (at least in the past) come with all the original Shanghai Airgun markings stamped into them and with a QB owner’s manual.
I think you are right about Compasseco’s claim to higher QC standards. Those claims are about as credible as their velocity claims. The TF guns I’ve had were in no way superior to the Industry brand originals.
pcp4me…I agree with you. I think this is still one of the bug-a-boos with the Chinese guns…there are a lot of ‘Friday aftenoon’ guns out there. I know of one dealer who specializes in these guns and when you purchase you have the option for an extra $10 of the dealer pulling the gun out of the box and going over it with a fine tooth comb to make sure all the screws are there…the pivot pins have had the ends properly finished, etc).
You don’t have to worry about this with most American/European guns.
Yet…
I have 3 Chinese guns.
One Spanish (Gamo Compact)
One Czech (Slavia)
One German (CP99)
One Japanese (PPK)
One Taiwanese (Elite II)
Three American (853c and 2 Red Ryders).
To date the guns I’ve sent in for repair have been the 853c and the Crosman Nightstalker I owned briefly and, as all of them appear to do started leaking those .88gm CO2 cartridges in 30 seconds. And the PPK for a sticking slide.
So for me…the American guns have been the most ‘troublesome’…though on the whole I consider myself to have been lucky…3 repairs in probably what approaches 50,000 shots.
I’m not really super pro Chinese. My two best guns by far are my 853c and the Slavia.
But the newer Chinese guns are well made (as opposed to well finished), most are accurate and they are going to be at least 1/2 the price of their Western counterpart.
All it does is give me more options of what to shoot.
pcp4me;
RE: “I think you get what you pay for….”
I like BB’s version better – “You don’t get what you didn’t pay for.”
Here are some of my thoughts based on fooling with a lot of “cheap” guns. A 760 is a cheap gun , but it is not poorly engineered. After all Crosman has sold several million of them and they have gone through several variations over the last 40 years, and still sell well. The QB-78/79 is a good gun for the money, but I have a 160 also. The older 160 is better finished, but the QB -78 is a better value, and has the grooved receiver, and is more available, which makes it more practical for the average shooter. However, my QB also came with poor quality O-rings, which had to be replaced almost immmediately.
The B-28 is a clone of the Diana, but that is where it ends. The barrel is not as good IMO, but that is an individual thing, that I will concede may vary from gun to gun. What is important is that the piston &seal, and the trigger parts aren’t as well finished as the Diana’s. The trigger on the B-28 is made of metal , but what it influences, is not as good as Diana’s. To have to replace the internals with parts from a Diana or aftermarket ,is poor economy in my book.
The B-40 is not a Air Arms equal. The breech seal is poor, so is the the piston &seal, and the barrel is not up to the quality of the TX-200. It will never match the TX-200 for value . You get what you pay for, and it’s all about what you are willing to settle for, and what you can afford. Shoot any of these guns at ranges over thirty yards and compare ten shot groups with good pellets , and you see what quality more money will buy. Robert
I really like my Chinese made Walther Force 1000. I was disappointed when I got my first one, I have 2 now, and saw it stamped Made in China. But I got over that. This is my first springer but it is way more accurate than the Gamo Big Cat, after I started using Super Domes and better scope mounts and if i remember to keep the stock screws tight. That was my problem with all 3 of my springers, I forgot about the stock screws. They were all loose. After tightening them, the Walther became very accurate again. I went to bed last night after having 3 shots hit the same hole at 50 feet. Slept like a baby, with a smile on my face.
Dare I say “OFF TOPIC”?
I mentioned in yesterdays blog that I had serious mechanical problems with a Walther (Umarex) pistol. I paid shpg & hndlg to and from the Umarex service center (under warranty) only to get the pistol back with the same/similar problems. This was not an Umarex failure to replace a part, it was a 2nd failure of the same part!
Anyway, I asked PA and Edith to intervene with Umarex, as I could not see spending more shpg & hndlg money (about $40 each time)only to anticipate one more mechanical failure?
As I noted yesterday, PA and Edith arranged for the no cost round trip of the pistol back to Umarex and today, I got this email from their manager;
_______________________________________________________________________________
“Hey Brian,
I stepped out into the gunsmith shop and your gun had just been completed. The gunsmith said he replaced the drawbar, valve, hammer, and hammer spring. He then proceeded to test fire the gun and everything is now working great. We will process the gun through the shipping department and get it on the FedEx truck this afternoon. If you have any further problems with the pistol then I will replace it. I don’t anticipate that you will and we do appreciate your patience. I will also send you a 500 ct tin of RWS Meisterkugeln Pistol pellets to shoot through the gun.
Thanks,
Glenn”
_____________________________________________________________________________
Just spreading a little good news about excellent customer service at Umarex.
And the above and beyond service from Pyramyd AIR and Mrs. Gaylord.
Roger that… X 2!
I received this from Blogger. As I don’t answer questions there directly, I post them here.
B.B.
Tom:
First off, I hope you are feeling well today. I am sure that you are aware that you have a huge support team behind you. My interest is airguns was rekindled about 5yrs ago. I was amazed at how much it has changed since I was kid in Florida. I decided to get into the business and I have been selling airgun accessories on ebay. I would like to have my own site one day so that I can sell airguns as well. My major problem is the lack of knowledge about airuns and the nomenclature involved with the industry. I have been reading blogs to pick up what I can. Is there some type of book that you can recommend that could bring me up to speed. I know I would still need more on hands knowledge but I was just wondering if there was some type of encyclopedia of airguns that could help me get started. Hope to hear from you soon.
Airgun Novice
Novice,
There is no airgun encyclopedia to read. There are a number of specialized books and there are some older books that might have been what you wanted, but they were written 60 years ago, so nothing in them is current today.
I do advise you to buy the Blue Book of Airguns, 8th edition, as one of the many books you will need in your library. And you’ll get some information by just reading this blog. But no one comprehensive airgun book exists.
B.B.
Why don’t you write one ? I’m sure it would sell well.
JF
J-F,
If I thought it would sell I would write one, but so far the market seems dead. I might sell a couple thousand copies, which is not enough to justify the time to write the book. I have actually been working on the book for 13 years, but it doesn’t yet seem worth it.
B.B.
Really… wow that’s sad (not that you’ve been working on it but that it’s not worth it) 🙁 I would gladly buy one.
I bought the Blue Book of airguns a few weeks ago and can’t put it down, even if it’s only supposed to be a price guide the amount of info and history given on some manufacturers is incredible.
J-F
Novice,
There is no airgun encyclopedia to read. There are a number of specialized books and there are some older books that might have been what you wanted, but they were written 60 years ago, so nothing in them is current today.
I do advise you to buy the Blue Book of Airguns, 8th edition, as one of the many books you will need in your library. And you’ll get some information by just reading this blog. But no one comprehensive airgun book exists.
B.B.
If somebody ever try to make from Slavia 631(630)-stronger gun (like 634 )it can t be done ,i have tried to do so before with a stronger spring ,and yeah you can gain a little bit of fps ,but main thing that is different in 634 is acctualy shorter spring ,and shorter piston togather with a shorter barrel(it reminds me on new mobile phone-everything is shorter and smaller) chamber size is – well same as 630/1…acctualy if somebody try to make new piston,new piston seal and take a little bit of risk it is posible to have power of gamo shadow 1000 -off course you ll have to to use gamo shadow spring then …
I have a B3 in my inventory, and so do my neighbor. His gun came with a bent barrel, but he refused to return it (He figures on shooting around corners, and rigged up a mirror sight for it…lol…It only cost $11 from the truck sale) As for my gun, zero shooting problems. Although it was dipped stained, over greased, screws loose right off the bat, different types of screws all over the place..yet the rifle is very accurate @ 24 yds. I’ve killed many of garden raiding rabbits with the thing. Target shooting, it creates dine size pattern @ 10m with El Gamo match…But I’m no real fan of China air guns, nor their pellets. I think they are time bombs, just waiting to cut off a digit, or whack your brains out of your head (Barrel slap back). I sold off my QB57 /.177cal after it failed to engage the safety block, and almost got me thumb (while loading). We steer the kids away from “Made in China” airguns (Buckeye Blasters AGC) and more towards Mendoza, Cometa, El Gamo and Norica. So if “BB’s” test gun was throwing lead all over the place, well that’s the norm for B3-1 and B3-2….I just got lucky!!! And yes I lean towards the Carabinas Espanol (got eight long gun and three pistol)
P.S. Big up’s to Mendoza Rm200 & Bronco rifles (Mexico). The little folks love them…
B.B. Wow, those groups are pretty bad at 10m. If that’s the best it can do, I don’t see why they sight the rifle at 20 yards.
I’ve seen a lot of criticism of the Chinese habit of copying superior designs. Out of curiosity is there a legal restriction in the West on copying to this level of fidelity? I’m guessing not, otherwise they would not allow the Chinese guns to be sold. Or is it a matter of industry convention or even…integrity? I don’t know that copyright laws cover airgun design or that patent laws would either. What stops Western companies from the same habit of copying?
Argh, my foresight has been defeated by the failure of my trap. The Champion bullet trap is backordered until the end of the month. So, I have another couple of weeks of using the broken Crosman trap which ejects a shower of target paper fragments and other debris with every shot.
Matt61
Matt61,you could sand the metal a little and try Gorilla glue,assuming the metal back overlaps the sides?My first thought was stainless rivets,but the glue would be cheaper.
There’s an idea. I have plenty of gorilla glue and have been very pleased with it. However, the metal backplate has been pushed so far away by the duct seal that I’ve stuffed into the trap that this is more trouble than it’s worth. I’ll just make regular use of my vacuum cleaner. I don’t know if you ever saw my note about the Japanese water stones. They are a fabulous success, and the knives stay sharp. The stones make me good. They will make you sublime. Give them a try as I think that they are an important part of any sharpening experience.
Matt61
It’s more a matter of economics, ie only the big BIG names like Chanel, Rolex, Taylor Made and Microsoft among others have the money or resources to go after the Chinese pirates. It’s actually more of a perceived quality and dilution of brand name issue for those companies, more so than any loss of sales. (from knock-offs)
It is hugely difficult to get any traction on these crimes in China. You need political clout, not lawyers. They do not fit the western paradigm of justice or fair play(nor do they want to). They will smile and bow to you but… be sure to turn your Kevlar jacket around to the backside as you leave the room.
Imagine the comparatively small Weihrauch company spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to go after the QB makers for using the Rekord Trigger name in their ads and on their so-called guns? Same for Air Arms and the TX200. No pay-off there.
If there is a silver lining in China’s growth, it is that they will soon need to start respecting international IP rights and stop copying everything.
This will occur because they are starting to focus on being major players in emerging technology like renewable energy. If they want to defend their rights to the IP they develop, they will have to respect others rights as well. I think that within the next ten years we will see the start of a big shift in this area.
Alan in MI
Matt61, I suspect that both you and BB are giving Shanghai and the B3 a bit much credit. Almost certainly the rifle shoots high at 10 yards not because they figure that 20 yards is the minimum shooting distance, but rather because, well, it just turned out that way. I suspect another B3 might not have that problem.
This rifle would be the perfect companion for a Marksman 1010!You could mount a compass on each for aiming.When you aim north,they both kinda shoot north.:]
In the wake of a recent illness, I’ve developed an idea about how airguns are related to health. Could it be that the finer-grained experience we get looking through sights leads to an intensification of life? There is high drama going on with each shot, like something out of an action movie. Maybe that explains the near obsession many of us have experienced and which is easy to see in the shooting sports generally.
Conversely, airguns will tell you when you are off your game. I’ve been taking a medication that causes a persistent headache and a mental dullness, and I could really see it when I went back to shooting after a slight break. My carefully refined mental sequence was just not working, and it was depressing. On the other hand, last night I got into a very strange state where I could hardly miss. The pellets were dropping through the same hole over and over. The only experience like it was when I was shooting my UTG airsoft sniper rifle. Ordinarily it can’t compare with my pellet guns, and the difference is such that it finally wasn’t worth the time to shoot. However, there was a day when I could not miss with it. Accuracy was a good as any of my pellet guns, and it stayed for the entire shooting session. Statistics don’t lie and I shot well over 50 bbs; enough to know that there was no fluke. It was further proof for me that if you can tap into the subconscious there is plenty of capability to make just about any shot. In comparison, the details of technique and even the qualities of guns (unless you’re talking B-3) are probably insignificant. It’s just like martial arts. There’s just no limit to what the body can do if you give it a chance.
Matt61
Matt61,
The body can achieve what the mind can believe. This is a basic precept, in my opinion.
That’s why the top Olympic athletes mentally run through their events before doing so physically. That’s the same reason placebos often work as well or even better than the drugs they’re tested against. If you believe you’re going to get better, you often do. It’s also the reason that people who believe they’re going to achieve something…often do.
Edith
Edith,
It is wisely said that “Anything that one can conceive and believe, they can achieve.”.
Victor
Victor and Edith,
Not so! No matter HOW MUCH you BELIEVE you can step off the Empire State Building and ascend, DO NOT do it!!!
And no matter how much you believe you can pick up a $3000 target rifle and put ten shots through the exact same hole off hand at 100 yards it will never happen!
Your beliefs must be in line with the physical laws of the universe and reality before what you believe has any effect.
But it is my firm belief that positive thinking can not hurt!
pcp4me,
We’re talking about things that are within our control. Most actions taken to achieve success are doable by almost anyone, but few will act as a highly successful person would. Belief, or lack of, is what separates most humans. The limits placed on each individual are often a function of their capacity to believe. It’s their reality (or paradigm). When we expand our capacity to believe, we also expand our capacity to achieve. I learned a long time ago that, good or bad, our actions change who we are. Too many of us aren’t willing to break personal barriers for one reason or another. Often times, the barriers are not absolutely real. Often times, we can break those barriers by simply deciding to. However, we can break barriers greatly by changing our capacity to believe. Faith is important, but eventually we can move beyond that and simply KNOW.
Regards,
Victor
Victor,
I agree in principal with what you say. Sometimes what constrains us is our beliefs. And sometimes if we step out of a certain mindset we can achieve better. But beliefs alone accomplish almost nothing. It takes belief plus action IMHO!
As an example take a fellow I know who is jobless, been turned down twice for social security disability, says he CAN’T work, has no money and is in danger of losing every thing and tells me he BELIEVES God will provide for him.
Well that belief will only work for him if he gets off his duff and finds a job and at least tries to work. If he tries several jobs and really tries to make it work and can’t then maybe SS will consider him disabled. But right now they don’t and his belief and inaction is leading him down the path of destruction.
Another factor in our lives is randomness. Random negative events not of our making which happen to every one. Like BB with his pancreas troubles. Positive thinking people do their best to work through these and usually achieve good results.
BB could have just said “I’m in the hospital. I’m really sick. I can no longer write this blog. Oh poor me.” Thank God he did not! He found ways around the road blocks put in his path. He believed he could get past them and took action and did. Thank you BB!!!
Negative thinking people just sit there and look at the problem and wallow in pity.
So yes, beliefs and mind set do greatly impact our life. But it is the action we take on those which ultimately allow us to achieve.
In a similar vein, after years of believing coffee and caffeine have no affect on me, shooting has shown me that it really does.
I could drink nearly any amount of coffee and still sleep fine. On weekends, I often have a cup before taking a nap. So I figured I was immune to the stuff.
Low and behold, I noticed on days that I give blood (and thus don’t drink much coffee, unlike any other day), my offhand groups are half the size as normal. So I tried it without “being a pint low” and it still held true.
Other than that, I have never seen any effect, but I’m now sure there are more efects and am considering cutting down. Unfortunately I truly love the stuff . . .
Alan in MI
Alan in MI,
It’s well known around the field target shooters, that coffee hurts your scores. Especially those like me who shoot without a harness and 12fpe international class.
It makes a big difference for me, so I don’t even think about it, on shooting days till after the shoot. Even then just a little, cause more shooting is always close behind later that day or the next:-) But, as match director, I make sure it’s available for those shooters who can’t resist:-)
Actually, in the last few months, I bet I’ve had only 10 cups. (did 5 cups a day not long ago), but now I have just been doing my matte, lemon grass, ribos, chi, stevia blend of tea, and that keeps me going and I never get shaky like coffee got me anymore. I shot a 47/50 last Sunday with Bob, on a nice “calm” no coffee, no wind morning:-).. In my coffee days, that would have been a 40/50 at best.
Wacky Wayne,
Match Director,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Gene, I also have a Walther Force 1000. It is suppose to be a AR1000 in a Walther suit. After owning and returnig several Chinese rifles I find this one to be well made and accurate. I was about to give up on having a Chinese spring rifle in my collection. After reading this blog for the past few years and researching the old blogs, I made my decition on the AR1000 variant and have been very pleased. Thanks to all who had input on that.
I will check out the AR1000, Toby. Thanks.
I love it when a plan comes together.
FedEx held the package with the Logun Solo at my request and I was able to grab it before work. Sure I could of road a Shetland Pony up to Pyramid Air and back in less time, but then the excitement would not of built like it did. On the way home I stopped by the local sporting goods store and picked up the scope mount I needed. A visit to the firearm store is always a story in itself, but I will let it slide for now.
The look of the rifle is a pleasant surprise, a bit dark on the stain but it is on top of classic walnut with hand cut checkering. Nice. I think the Solo will be the catalyst for my long overdue blog post after I spend a little more time with it.
One suggestion for PA now however would be to remove the garage sale tag that says $400.00 when you sell it for $484.00.
Victory. Tell us if the suspense was worth it.
Volvo,
Me too, I want to know about the Logun Solo! pleeeeaasseee:-)
Wacky Wayne
Kevin and Wayne,
You know I love to share, I’ll have a full report soon.