1896 New King Single Shot: Part 2

Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

1896 King
1896 New King single shot BB gun.

Part 1

History of airguns

This report covers:

  • Design an Airgun contest
  • The bear
  • However!
  • Tapered breech
  • Something else
  • Clearing the barrel
  • Discussion
  • Cocking effort
  • Trigger pull
  • Summary

Design an Airgun contest

Today is the last day of the Design an Airgun contest, and we have several interesting entries. I will announce the winner next week.

The bear

Sometimes the bear eats you! That’s almost what happened to the 1896 New King single shot BB gun today. I got one shot out the muzzle at 157 f.p.s and the next BB didn’t come out. I was still inside the gun, along with a second BB I loaded, thinking the first BB had rolled out. At least that’s what I believed at this point.

It will be hard to say what happened exactly before I get this gun running again. That’s assuming I can even do that. I will try, and I will document what happens so I can report it to you. But for now I was sure Part 2 of the 1896 New King Single Shot, the velocity test, was over.

However!

But I was able to remove the shot tube from the gun, and in so doing I discovered several things. First, I discovered where the rough spot in the barrel is. The shot tube is bent!

New King bent shot tube
The New King shot tube is bent about a third of the way down from the muzzle on the right.

Tapered breech

I have written about how single shot BB guns have breeches that are tapered to hold the shot when it’s dropped in, but I had never seen one until I examined this shot tube. Let’s look.

New King tapered breech
This photo shows me two things. First is the tapered breech that holds the BB in a single-shot gun. This BB is stuck tight! The second is that the shot tube is made of brass.

Besides the tapered breech I also learned that the shot tube is made of rolled brass. That tells me that I can straighten the barrel with some careful tapping with a large plastic hammer while the shot tube rests on the steel flat of my bench vise.

Something else

Look at the picture of the shot tube again. See that small steel flange that’s soldered to the tube just behind the muzzle? Well, it fits into a spiral groove inside the outer barrel, and twisting it as far as it will go clockwise will pull the shot tube into the outer barrel and hopefully align the tapered end of the tube with the end of the piston plunger. If I’m right, straightening the barrel should accomplish three things. First, the gun should shoot harder because all parts are in alignment. Second, because the barrel is now straight (hopefully) a lead ball should drop all the way through the barrel to the tapered breech, where it will stop in the taper without getting stuck. And third, if the barrel is straight, I should be able to shoot smaller balls that will now fall into and also stick in the tapered breech.

I won’t need to press the balls down the barrel with a cleaning rod like I was doing before. That was what caused the ball to get stuck in the tapered breech.

Clearing the barrel

With the shot tube out of the gun I had access to remove the lead ball. It was stuck really tight in the breech taper. It took a plastic hammer to start moving it, and it only moved a smidgeon. A pin punch then moved it down to the bend in the tube. I had to bend a wire coat hanger to push it out of the shot tube completely.

When it came out I saw there was only a single BB in the shot tube. At least I did something right?

New King BB
This is the BB that came out. There was only this one BB in the tube. The bore is now clear.

Discussion

I need to straighten the shot tube and see how the gun reacts. I’m hoping everything I said above is correct and Part 3 will be the velocity test.

Cocking effort

I told you the New King was a child’s BB gun. It cocks with 7 pounds of force, making it the lightest-cocking spring-piston airgun I have ever tested. 

Trigger pull

The single-stage trigger releases with 3 lbs. 4 oz. of pull. That is about right for a direct sear trigger. Anything much less would be unsafe.

Summary

This is a short report, but it took me a long time because of all the things I did with the gun. I believe I’m on the right track to get this gun back up and shooting again. The simplicity of the gun is a great help, because much more disassembly would require the removal of rivets.

174 thoughts on “1896 New King Single Shot: Part 2

  1. B.B.,

    How does an internally located barrel get bent? Could it have been bent when it was forced to fit in the past?

    Siraniko

    PS: Section Summary 3rd sentence: “The simplicity of the gun is a great help, because much more disassembly would require the removal of rivits (rivets)”.


  2. B.B.,

    It looks like some varnish on the bb. Did it come from the breech. It looks like the varnish is tapered like the breech. It does not look like the bend in the barrel is enough to cause a restriction. I hope straightening the barrel will take care of the problems. Was the rough spot at the bend?

    Don


  3. BB,
    How come you’ll be able to announce the winner next week? I’m confused. I thought we would all mail you our designs, and you would test them, even summarize your thoughts on them in a report or something… So the contestants will be competing with the photos they’ve summitted, huh? If that’s the case, then I’m changing my design – all the way. I’d like to summit a totally new thing… There were plenty of good ideas I had, but I shelved them all as I wouldn’t be able to ship them to ya. By midnight, I’ll be summit a balloon powered catapult design. It’ll either be a BB shotgun or an arrow thrower. It’ll be something everybody can produce jumping on one hand under $10 and reasonably nifty. My evening is gone down the drain. πŸ™‚
    Fish




        • Chris,
          I’m a big fan of those guys. Their entries are very nifty designs – but cannot be built by most people. Also my entry is ‘the world’s one and only’ balloon powered Q-tip gun. It’s a true original. πŸ™‚ It took a few trail and error sessions until I found the right barrel length. If it were tad bit shorter or longer, it would fall behind its 4 meter range with a regular size latex balloon. Figuring out the ammo also took a while; the other things I tired were either too heavy or too light. My goal was a very low powered air gun, and I believe I’ve achieved it by figuring out the optimum sizes.
          Fish



        • MOS,
          TY, but TBHWU, it gets boring fast. πŸ™‚ It actually doesn’t ‘get’ boring, it’s boring from get go. πŸ™‚ Party balloons cost like a buck; I’d recommend u to spend that money on a small fries from McDonald’s. It’d be a way much more entertaining experience. πŸ™‚
          Well, here’s my today’s post…


  4. BB,

    What is all of that crap behind the removed bb? It looks like a slug! Is the barrel THAT! gunked up inside?

    As for straightening the tube,… I would do a controlled bend. Any tapping with a hammer could reduce the ID of the tube,.. creating another problem.

    Chris


  5. BB
    A lathe would be a good thing to have right now to straighten your barrel.

    Chuck the barrel up just so the bend is just outside of the chuck. Then get a boxed end wrench that is a little bigger diameter than the tube.

    Rotate the chuck by hand and point the bend up. Then put your boxed end wrench over the tube and bend it down a little. Then rotate the chuck around again by hand and repeat the process till the barrel is straight as you want it.



      • BB
        And I’m sure you will let us know. πŸ˜‰

        Maybe Monday?

        But it should work. I straighten tube and bar stock like that all the time at work.

        If you want to get technical with it you can put a dail indicator on the barrel and watch the run out as you rotate the chuck. You can get with in thousandths if you want to. It all depends on how much time you want to spend on it.


        • GF1, When you tighten the collet, will it crush the taper? Also,
          can I put a .177 Maximus barrel in a Prod breech? Just swapping out the .22 top end
          with a .177 one would be cheaper than a whole new gun, plus I have the externally adjustable regulator on it now. I’d have to source some .177 mags. I would even put a longer barrel on the .22, the ten year old 12″ barrel is PDG tho. I’m curious about the new Crosman barrels.
          Rob


          • Rob
            It shouldn’t. It should only bring the high places back in with the bent barrel.

            It’s a feel kind of thing. Slow but sure is what its about. Same with the bending with the boxed end wrench of the barrel.

            If anything the barrel tube gets stretched at the high spots. So the barrel tube will actually be thinner in those spots.

            Nope the Maximus Prod won’t work.

            First thing the Prod barrel is a different diameter than the Maximus/Discovery barrel.

            Second the Prod breech is a different bolt pattern how it bolts to the air tube.

            I still don’t like that Crosman did that. If they made more of their things universal I would have a shrouded .25 caliber 1377 right now. The combinations would of been almost limitless.


            • Now I need a lathe. You’re just an enabler like the star of the show around here. Any advice per chance on a decent home lathe? Thread cutting is such a cool feature. Tapers.
              R



              • 1stblue
                I use the Harding lathe we have at work so really have never looked into a home lathe.

                But like Chris said. Hank has one. Hopefully he will see our conversation. If not ask him on one of his replies.

                Sorry no good answer for you.



  6. BB,

    Well, it sounds as if you were able to get this old gal going again. I am so glad you could pull that off. One of the reasons I like these oldies is they can clearly demonstrate that in many respects, airgunning has not advanced as far as many think. Occasionally there is an idea that comes along that improves some aspect, but the basics are still the same.


  7. Glad you got it shooting again – it would be sad to lose a piece of history. But I do think it is funny that the trigger pull force is roughly half the cocking force . . . .


  8. When you said ” tapping with a large plastic hammer”, I cringed. I’m glad you didn’t have any troubles. I have a tool, (somewhere) for straightening aluminum arrows that would work perfectly for this. It works basically just like Gunfun explained . Only it uses two V-blocks and a roller ball attached to a pointer to tell when the shaft is straight. I wish I were more computer literate, I’d find the thing and add a photo.


  9. Glad your straightening efforts were successful. As others have already said, there is always more than one way to skin the cat. I’ll add one more. Sometimes you will find the inner tube of a tube feed rimfire rifle is bent. Typically made of brass or steel, I’ve had success with this method.

    You need a flat surface. Doesn’t have to be fancy. I’ve done them on kitchen tables. Lay the tube on the table and locate the high spot by rolling the tube back and forth. Mark the spot. I usually use the heal of my hand on the spot at and just roll back and forth, increasing downward pressure. Check your progress often. I will begin adding a paper shim (or 2-3) under an end to help take out the bend.

    It doesn’t take long. Writing this description took much longer than fixing the usual tube does. Hope this helps.


  10. B.B.,

    Like Don and Chris I’m a bit fixated on the crud that came out with the BB. Don’s right that it looks like varnish, but it also looks like congealed household lube. Could it be, gasp, 70 year old WD-40?

    These very old BB guns are about as cool as airguns get in my opinion.

    Michael


    • Michael,

      I didn’t want to admit this, but what that is, is dried Super Glue! πŸ™‚

      Yes, the first thing old BB did was try to remove that ball with Super Glue on a long rod. Some obviously got into the bore and was removwed with the ball.

      As much oil as I put in the barrel, I didn’t think it would work, but if it did I would be one proud redneck! Just call me Bubba!

      BB


      • BB
        I’m definitely calling you Bubba. πŸ˜‰

        But something else you can do with a lathe and getting a bent spot out of the barrel is use the chuck jaws to straighten it.

        Basically put the bent spot in the lathe chuck and tighten up the chuck. Then loosen it and rotate the barrel and tighten the chuck.

        Keep repeating that process till you get it straight.

        Again a little time and effort. It works.


      • B.B.,

        Heh, heh, heh. I’ve done worse, truth be told. Well, don’t feel too embarrassed, Bubba, at least you “owed up” to it.

        Now,

        Do you have a working TV set sitting on top of a non-working TV set?

        A major appliance on the front porch?

        Or my favorite: You lost two fingertips one July 4th a few years back. Add 10% for still having ’em sealed in a jar of alcohol. Add 20% for Mason jar of White Lightning. Subtract 25% for not getting this reference. ;^)

        O.K. I’m out of Jeff Foxworthy jokes.

        Michael




          • Now THAT’S the bee’s knees! :^)

            My late father-in-law had a skateboard with a steering column, probably in the late 1920s. He made a holster and toy pistol from scrap and household items and attached it to the column. In his 70s he immortalized it in a memory painting.

            There is something missing in the high-tech, ultra-realism of 3-D printing and the like today. Perhaps that is why I am drawn to relatively primitive products like this New King. One vintage air gun I have long been on the hunt for is an early example Markham Chicago to hang on the wall. I see them often, but they are all in very poor cosmetic condition and have no legible markings.

            If the pandemic will allow, I need to attend one or two air gun shows in 2021.

            Michael


            • Michael,

              An airgun show is indeed quite an experience.

              I will take this opportunity to invite you to the North Carolina Airgun Show the third week in October. Picture a room 60′ x 200′ filled with airguns. There is also a shooting range out back where you can try out some of the airguns on display or bring your own.

              At this airgun show I have seen airguns from the 18th and 19th centuries clear up to the latest and greatest. Yes, I have seen some of your Markhams there.

              I was going there today, but it was cancelled at the last moment. $%$^&%^* Chinese Flu.

              http://www.tmacsairgunservice.com/airgunshow.html


              • RidgeRunner,

                North Carolina show? Not on a bet. Today’s Charlotte Observer reported 2684 new coronavirus cases in North Carolina for Friday, a new record. And that was after the previous day set the record, according to WCNC. Total so far for North Carolina is 242,000 cases and almost 4000 deaths.

                I’m thinking 2021 Kalamazoo for certain. Toys that Shoot maybe, too. But anything will have to wait until the pandemic is under control. Michigan has had 160,00 cases and 7300 deaths, and Arkansas is closing in on 100,00 cases and 1700 deaths. For that matter, Texas is closing in on 900,00 cases and 18,00 deaths .

                A Kansas City hospital has already filled past capacity and is turning ambulances away.

                Michael


                • Michael,

                  You sound as if you are taking this Covid stuff seriously? πŸ˜‰ Of course you are. πŸ™

                  Increased testing and increased positives are one thing,……….. hospitals reaching capacity again are,… things are “getting real”,… one more time.

                  As long as data is not skewed in (any way),.. I am fine with it. Skew it to make it worse than it is?,……. Chris is not happy camper and down right ticked off!

                  Be well,…….. Chris


                  • Chris,

                    The Charlotte Observer and WCNC are pretty legit, as is Johns Hopkins, perhaps the best infectious disease hospital in the world. (Walter Reed called in one of their doctors to take over the treatment of the president, a solid endorsement.) Besides, those are raw numbers, not an opinion among them.

                    Yeah, COVID became a personal enemy of mine after it killed my mom. FWIW, back in April when I was commenting about how real this was going to get, what I didn’t share was that I had it at the time. Sitting at the computer was about all I could muster back then.

                    Stay safe,

                    Michael


                    • Michael,

                      Oh, it is quite real indeed. I have not been able to see my mother for months. She is in a nursing home that has been locked down since this started. I received a call a little over a week ago that she has tested positive. She is not yet showing symptoms and I pray she never does.

                      I have been blessed also as I can work from home and have been since March and it looks like this will become a permanent arrangement. I am also fortunate to live in a sparsely populated area where social distancing is the norm. I cannot see my neighbors homes from mine.

                      As I said, they had canceled the show this year. Hopefully this will be gotten under control soon. We shall see.


                    • Lost a friend to COVID-19 a few months ago, the first death in the county. Lost another friend this week. This virus does not care what our politics are but it has been politicized from the start.

                      Deck






                • RR
                  We had open farm fields and woods spotted in at places and then some woods around the lake. When the crops were up we rode along the edge of the fields to the lake to fish. But we always had our guns with us.

                  But you reminded me of something.

                  I got my first motorcycle (a Suzuki 100 enduro) with my grass cutting money I saved up and also the old farmer next to us use to have me run his hunting dogs for him as he said to keep them in practice and paid me for it.

                  Anyway I bought it for like $300 and through in my old 760 that I had. Which I felt I didn’t need any more because I had just got my .22 Benji pumper.

                  You know what I rode around before I got that Suzuki. A red Atlas mini bike. Yep I thought It was the best thing in the world when I got that old Suzuki. πŸ™‚


                  • GF1,

                    πŸ˜‰ Like I said, rich kids. There was not much grass where I lived, mostly woods. What grass there was, I had to mow for free. There also was not much flat ground either. Most of it was pretty steep.


                    • RR
                      Rich kid. I wish.

                      Heck that minibike I found on a junk pile. It did have everything but a enjine. And of course I put a 5 hp enjine on it. They only came with 3.5 at that time. It was a runner for sure. I ended up giving it to my buddies younger brother back then. He rode the heck out of that thing for I bet 4 or5 years then sold it to get him a dirt bike.

                      All I know is that was some fun times back then.

                      And Missouri is kind of like you say about where you live. One of my cousins lived on a farm in Missouri when we was kids. Use to go over there once in a while and he use to come over to our place too. Definitely was different for both of us.

                      And what is funny I live in one of the hilliest ares by us right now. Go figure. And you know what they call us Illinois boys in my area. Flatlanders. Kind of like you Ridgerunners. πŸ™‚


                  • GF1,

                    I was trying hard not to call you a Flatlander, but since you brought it up… πŸ˜‰

                    I eventually did get me an old, beat up Honda S90 and used it like a dirt bike. That started me down the road on two wheels. Several bikes later, there is now a Harley sitting in my garage. I often think of getting an endurro type bike, but the boss says I can only have one. I’ll keep the Harley.


                    • RR
                      Almost everybody around here rides ATV’s/ 4 wheelers around here. Occasionally you will see a dirt bike off roading.

                      We have 4 wheelers too. Thought about a dirt bike but figured better just stay with the 4 wheels instead of two wheels.

                      And if I had a Harley right now I would for sure keep it and not get a enduro.


      • B.B.,

        Last night i looked at your blog post shortly after it went up and refrained from speculating what that plasticity looking stuff was! I remember a post about removing stuck CO2 Carts so it was an EASY speculation on what it was; particularly the way the Lead ball was cut by the opening from holding pressure while the Super Glue hopefully set!. I have had Lead balls get stuck in bores and have a collection of thin coated SS rod with a tapered screw thread cut into the end…it has pulled many multiple shot pellets and simple stuck Lead rounds from lots of folks airguns (including a few of my own) over the years.

        shootski


  11. It’s nice to see a scaled down BB gun sized for youth.

    PS- The Bear,
    β€œ I got one shot out the muzzle at 157 f.p.s and the next BB didn’t come out. I (It) was still inside the gun, along with a second BB I loaded, thinking the first BB had rolled out. β€œ

    With all your expertise, sometimes I imagine you *are* inside the gun.


  12. Happy Friday all!

    For the β€œdesign an Airgun” contest for something that shoots I would like to submit a β€œStone X-Bow” which as the name implies, is designed to shoot stones or better still, marbles or ball-bearings instead of bolts.

    I have always loved anything that shoots a projectile and in my early teens designed and made a whole variety of weapons powered by elastics or bows. Slingshots were great but back then the bands (usually cut from bicycle inner tubes) were no where as good as the latex and surgical tubing bands used these days. Considering power and availability, bows were my power-plant of choice, the following is a prim example…

    The overall Stone X-Bow design is straight forward and can pretty well be laid out on the fly. The main considerations are to have at least a 2.75 inch β€œwindow” between the bows and the bow supports (to clear the projectile) and to be sure that the pellet pouch is centered between the bows. The bow’s draw length determines the distance from the bow supports to the release mechanism. The rest of the stock can be penciled in to suit with the only requirement being the shape of the grip for the trigger.

    A variety of material can be used to make the bows. The bows for this project are cut from a fiberglass a chain-link fence β€œtensioning bar”. Fiberglass rods used as driveway markers, or tent poles or chimney cleaning poles are suitable as well. Bamboo stakes also make a good bow, you just have to match up a pair and join them in the middle.

    The Stone X-Bow is a fun project that is inexpensive to build and can be made with a couple of hour’s effort (spread over a day or two to allow for glue setting). They are consistent shooters and can be made powerful enough for small game hunting. In pursuit of β€œhow big can you make it” I made a Stone X-Bow that would rival a potato cannon in power that shot golf balls.

    Hope you find this interesting enough to build your own.

    Hank


    • To eliminate complex routing I laminate up the stock from six 6 inch wide, 1/4 inch thick pieces of plywood. Per the picture below, two pieces marked β€œA” are the outer laminates; β€œB” are the laminates that provide the clearance for the trigger block and β€œC” creates the slot for the trigger.

      Labeling all the pieces and pining them together (with 2 inch finishing nails) keeps everything together and aligned for cutting and later registered for gluing.

      I didn’t have any plywood available so I cut my 1/4” material from a 2×4 and added a piece of 2×6 for the butt of the stock. Not having the plywood was a bit inconvenient but it can be made to work without too much problem.


    • The trigger of the Stone X-Bow is a rolling block style similar to that found on many regular crossbows, the difference is that it has a single pin to capture the pouch rather than two pins to hold the string and bolt.

      The trigger block is made from a piece of hardwood dowel and a bolt that is long enough to make the pin and has the head filed flat to make a sear. The trigger block is mounted with two screws that are supported by washers imbedded in the stock.

      The trigger has another modified bolt and is positioned to engage the sear on the block. A spring is used to keep the sear and trigger engaged until the trigger is pressed. I used a 2 inch finishing nail for the trigger pivot point.



        • Don,

          The scope rail is on the Deluxe model. πŸ™‚

          I sometimes add an “eye-bolt” rear sight and a post front sight but again, that is optional equipment LOL!

          Hank





            • Shootski,

              No way! My round toit disappeared for a long time and I could not find it. Kathy found it for me a couple of weeks ago. I am not letting that go anywhere! Hank will just have to get his own!


              • RR,

                My wife likes that my Round Toit is big enough that I can’t (easily) lose or misplace it πŸ™

                I am about to “disguise” this one as a box of kindling for the wood-stove πŸ˜‰

                Hank


                • Hank,

                  Now I am jealous. I used to have an outside wood stove that I enjoyed feeding. Sometimes I would grab the maul and swing it instead of the hydraulic splitter just because I enjoyed doing it that way.

                  Unfortunately, a few years ago certain parts of my body told me I was not going to cut wood anymore. I could not shoot my compound bow anymore either.

                  I just have to satisfy myself with a pocket sized Round Toit and hope I do not misplace it again.


                  • RR,

                    Yeah, hear you about body parts that complain – not that I am smart enough to listen …then I pay the price. LOL! No sympathy from the wife either – she just rolled her eyes and says that I should act my age.

                    I’m (slowly) learning to pace myself and spread more strenuous chores over a couple of days rather than trying to do them in one morning.

                    I do use my electric log-splitter for the big jobs but, like you I still like swinging the maul. Splitting kindling is a fun chore.

                    Still shoot my compound bows on occasion but have a strong preference for my wooden bows. I made a couple that run 35-45 pounds draw weight and they are very pleasant to shoot.

                    Cheers!
                    Hank


                    • Hank,

                      I could not draw my compound bow anymore without severe, sharp pains. It was time for it to go.

                      My brother-in-law gave me a pretty nice crossbow a couple of years ago. I have still not shot it. Maybe I will give it a workout this winter.







    • Hank,

      Very well done! I like the 2 tone butt stock. The spring and roller block shoes/sears look like uni-strut (spring/nut) units.

      Maybe I missed it, but what is the pouch made from?

      Looks like you (may?) have a winner on your hands! I “just knew” that you would come up with something. Thank you.

      Chris


      • Chris,

        With Covid, going to the store for materials is not an option so I made the Stone X-Bow from odds and sods that I had in the shop. It is what it is.

        I have made these powerful enough to drive a 3/8″ ball bearing through 1/2″ plywood (and used it for rabbit hunting).

        The two-tone stock did come out quite nice considering that it was the only piece of 2×6 I had.

        The pouch is a piece of leather. Turned out to be to soft and I don’t like the way it stretched on me so I will likely replace it with some 1″ nylon webbing.

        Hank


        • Hank,

          If you ask me (and I know, you didn’t), “odds and sods that [you] had in the shop” better captures the spirit of this, so what it is is pretty cool!

          Michael


    • Hank,
      Ur design and that wooden catapult pistol are my favs. Yours is better in my opinion as it’s projectiles are versatile. I’ll be disappointed if u don’t win this contest.
      Fish




    • Ken,

      ” Box doesn’t tell me much, but this the closest to a PCP I have seen in this store.”

      The Origin (is) a PCP. It has gotten pretty good reviews.

      “this store”,……… ?

      Chris


      • Chris
        I know, but what do they 13 pumps is all you need? Surely, that is a minimum? I will be looking at reviews, of course. The price, with 3 stage pump seems a good way for someone to get started.
        ~ken


        • Ken,

          Looking at PA’s page,… it does say 13 pumps for 1 full power shot (or) 100 pumps for a full charge. Check out HAM for full details as I do believe they did a full review awhile back. As I recall, it pumps up much quicker to get the first usable shot and quicker overall.

          People have to understand the benefit of PCP’s and weigh that against the effort of using a hand pump in order to be happy with their purchase/decision.

          Chris


          • Chris,
            As I recall, this air rifle has an added feature which makes it possible to get a full power shot with just 13 pumps. I think it has a small additional cylinder, kind of like a power plenum. Seems a little gimmicky to me though, any maybe marketing hype.
            My Urban has a smallish 105cc cylinder. I shoot two mags, 20 shots, from 3000 psi down to about 2000 psi and then it only takes about 50 pumps to take it back to 3000 psi again. It only takes about five minutes to top it off. I will usually only shoot two mags in a session, topping it off twice. I’m 73 and I think anyone in good physical condition should not have an issue with hand pumping to 3000 psi. Beyond that, it can get pretty difficult though. Someone who shoots a LOT, like GF1, would not be happy using a hand pump to fill their airgun. πŸ˜‰
            Geo


            • Geo,

              The actual air tube, like on your gun, has a piston in it that has an air charge behind it. It is not plenum tech. It seems like a good/practical idea. The internal air chamber can expand and contract (in volume) and keep an even pressure on what air is left. I think HAM ran the gun through some different tune options too.

              Because of that tech.,…. I think that made it not serviceable by the shooter,…. but not sure.

              Chris


              • Chris,
                I see, it seems like that would be another point of failure, not sure. For me, not being serviceable would be a deal breaker because all of these airguns at some point are going to require O-ring replacement. Having to ship an airgun somewhere to have new O-rings would be expensive. I do hope I don’t have to go inside of my Urban anytime soon though.
                Geo


              • Chris
                That sounds like bladder to me.

                Our hydraulic machines at work to add a boost when all the working stations fire to start the cutting spindles moving.

                Also we would use a rubber bladder on our RC racing planes as a fuel tank to keep the fuel supply consistent no matter what way the plane was oriented.

                Is it similar to that I wonder?


                • GF1,

                  It may be that just the air tube is not serviceable,… the pre-charged portion. In theory, a floating piston could move the entire length of the tube,… and I will bet it does.

                  Chris


                  • Chris
                    So this is the Origin we are talking about right?

                    I remember getting a email advertisement about it a little while back.

                    Now I’m curious. I’m going to have to check it out more and see ifi can find a parts diagram.

                    Pretry cool though. Maybe Umerex was listening way back when we was talking about the $100 pcp.

                    And I just checked out the hHard Air report.

                    Yep a floating piston. So it sounds like the air bleeds past the piston as the air is used and less high pressure air is available on the air tube. Pressure always tries to equalize. Pretty cool design.

                    As I always say. Simple but effective.

                    And what is funny just actually did something like this in the Hatsan at44-10 long QE pump I have..

                    I got the wrong regulator for the gun. So it actually floated in the air tube. It had no o ring on the outside diameter surface of the regulator. So it never sealed. The air was pushing around it.

                    I’m able to shoot down at very low pressure and still get good velocity and shot consistency. I fill the gun to 1500 psi and get 20 shots (2 clips) on a fill at almost 800 fps.

                    I almost took it out. But I figured what the heck. 20 shots from a 1500 psi fill is pretty good. And what I mean by consistent psi can put 10 shots in .750″ at 50 yards benching the gun. I’m happy.




      • RR,

        The pump/gun combo was purported to “maybe” make it’s way into Wally World. I’ll be happy to see that day. It had better have REAL good instructions though,.. as I could see a bunch of returns. For one,… “I have to pump this 100 times to shoot 50 shots?,………. *&%# THIS!”

        Chris


      • RidgeRunner,
        This is an interesting turn of events. Not sure how well it will work out. I think the fewer adjustments the better. It does seem to have some good features. A repeater with side lever cocking, etc. Leave it to Umarex to be the first to put this on the shelves. But no ARs in sight.
        ~ken


        • Ken,

          I have often been leery of Umarex. They have done some awesome stuff with CO2 over the years, but I have not really been impressed with their sproingers and PCPs. I have to give them credit with trying innovative ideas, but most have not caught on.

          It seems they finally hit on things with the Gauntlet. They are too b’ugly for me, but Gunfun1 swears by them. I have “spoken” with Stephen Archer and he really does like this air rifle. I myself would like to have one, but I do not need “another hand pump”. I already have two.


          • RR
            My .177 Gauntlet is great. And it is my only gun that equals the accuracy of my modded FWB 300S.

            I have had zero problems with it. If I didn’t already have my .25 Condor SS I would definitely have a .25 caliber Gauntlet. Not to say it would be as good as my .177 Gauntlet but it would be the next in line for me to try.





      • BB,
        R u planning to take a few good ideas of ours to the manufacturers? European ones could be kinda hard to reach, but I think US companies might listen. I have a few more springer ideas that I’d like to share when u publish the part 2 – more reasonable suggestions this time…
        Fish



          • Fish,

            I am not hopeful regarding a .25 ASP for two reasons: 1) Using the same power plant and simply changing the barrel will leave the user wanting in performance with the rainbow trajectory limiting its useful range. 2) Getting any accuracy out of a gas spring piston exceeding 12 fpe decreases as you increase the power especially with a heavy payload I think because of the increase in recoil (On a lark some British shooters have demonstrated that their sub 12 fpe .177 rifles are capable of reaching out to 100 meters and hitting eggs most of the time.)

            As times change your airgun requirement will also change. What are you going to use YOUR air gun for? It used to be I needed to reach out to 50 meters but now I’m lucky that I can get 10 meters at the most to shoot in so my power need has gone down.

            Siraniko


            • Siraniko,
              We can’t always get what we want, can we? πŸ™‚ Well, I wouldn’t buy an ASP anyhow; .25 ASP was just an idea. I’m into weaker, but well balanced, coil steel springers. I had a couple of .177 27s back in time, and I loved them. My ideal rifles would be 27, R7, and R9 – R9 is actually a magnum for my taste…
              I have a wish list of some low powered springers, and I’m waiting for the part 2 to talk about them.
              Fish





        • Mike,

          Looks impressive/wicked,….but $15 for 25? WOW! πŸ™ I do remember them from the pics. (thanks for the pics)

          Add in laser guided and explosive tips and even I would go $15 for 25! πŸ™‚

          Chris


        • Mike in Atl,

          It may just be an optical issue with the photograph but those petals Don’t look evenly cut to me.
          That, if actuality, would cause all kinds of physical spin imbalance as well as mess with the aerodynamics! So not surprised they went away.

          shootski



          • Shootski,

            Looking at the photo again it looks like the petals at about 10 o’clock and 6 o’clock are smaller than the others, not good unless it is a photo illusion.

            Another thought copper is probably not the best material to make pellets out of, but you never know till you try.

            Mike


            • Mike
              The copper is what I’m wondering about.

              Full copper pellets in that design I just don’t know.

              Now that I’m thinking about it I have always wondered about those I guess they are copper coated pellets that are out there.

              Have you ever tried any? I haven’t. Maybe I should?


              • Gunfun1,

                Did some searching around and cannot find actual copper pellets, copper plated, copper coated but not solid copper.

                No I have not tried any of the copper looking pellets, could be slower or faster out of the barrel, not sure of the friction change over pure lead.

                If you try them and find out anything good or bad let us know.

                Mike



                  • Gunfun1,

                    I was looking for some copper coated and lead pellets that were the same cal and weight for a side by side comparison but could not find any that were just the same, close but not quite.

                    The H&N’s and the Crosman Premier have lead and copper plated that are close.

                    Well, I guess it is just try them and see if they are accurate.

                    Mike


                    • Mike
                      Yep those are the ones that came to mind when I was thinking about it.

                      I guess I should get a tin of each and try them. Always good to have more options if your favorite pellet becomes unavailable for some reason.



      • Mike
        I kind of remember.

        Made of copper. That’s interesting.

        And yep that’s probably why I didn’t look at them. The cost.

        And they do seem like they could be un balanced.

        And lead is softer than copper. I would bet you need some good velocity to actually make them expand.

        But all that aside. If they was accurate I could see having a few tins hang’n around for whatever the purpose may be.


      • Mike,

        I was quite disappointed. Very likely they were not accurate at all. A bit long for a diabolo. You probably could not hit the broad side of a barn while standing inside. I would not have been concerned with the cost if you could hit what you were shooting at with them.

        I have seen bullets like that. I can well imagine they are quite vicious.


        • RidgeRunner,

          Vicious is the word, in .25 cal they are expanding to a huge wound channel, not sure how wide but those leaves look to spread quite wide.

          Oh well, another failed idea, at least they gave it a go.

          Mike



  13. B.B.,

    I had a little time this evening and read the blog again and your hint just jumped out at me:

    “See that small steel flange that’s soldered to the tube just behind the muzzle? Well, it fits into a spiral groove inside the outer barrel, and twisting it as far as it will go clockwise will pull the shot tube into the outer barrel and hopefully align the tapered end of the tube with the end of the piston plunger.” That steel flange is nothing short of EVIL in that location! Would have been better located far down the tube! But then tolerances would need to have been better…

    shootski




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