This report covers:
- The twist
- Daisy Match Grade Avanti Precision Ground Shot
- The correct way to cock and load the 499
- Velocity with Precision Ground Shot
- ASG Blaster
- Crosman Black Widow
- Second test with Daisy Precision Ground Shot
- Cocking effort
Before we begin I want to remind everyone that today is the third of June. It’s the day Billy Joe McCallister jumped off the Tallahatchie bridge. (from the Ode to Billy Joe, written and performed by Bobbie Gentry.)
Today’s report will be short because I am reporting on the velocity of the Daisy 499B single-shot — the world’s most accurate BB gun. There is only one BB to use in this gun, though I will test several for you. But there is an interesting twist for us to explore. Let’s get started.
In the owner’s manual for the 499 I just received, it says the velocity is 280 f.p.s. But Daisy’s manual for the 499B has always said 240 f.p.s. in the past. And when I have tested the gun, that’s right where it is. Was there a change at some point?
I got this from an old Daisy 499B manual in the Pyramyd Air resources page.
I’m not making this up. This is what it says in the manual that came with the new Daisy 499B.
Okay, someone went to the trouble to calculate the new velocity in meters per second. That shows that some effort was put into changing the data in this new-gun table. But they left the energy at 0.71 foot pounds/0.96 joules, when it should have been raised to 0.89 foot-pounds or 1.21 joules. And the old number of 0.76 foot-pounds was incorrect for a 5.1-grain BB travelling 240 f.p.s. It should have been 0.65 foot-pounds, which is 0.88 joules.
That tells me the new number isn’t a typo. It was purposely changed. Is it correct? Today we find out. Let’s get started.
Daisy Match Grade Avanti Precision Ground Shot
The only BB that is supposed to be used in the 499B is Daisy’s Match Grade Avanti Precision Ground Shot. A 499 owner knows why these are the best. All you have to do is drop one of them into the muzzle of your 499 and listen as it takes a long time to roll to the breech and click on the magnet. I have said that it takes 3 to 5 seconds in the past, but I think it takes less time than that. But the time it does take is much longer than for any other steel BB. And no — I will not try a large Marksman BB in any of my 499s!
I have run numerous accuracy tests in the past and these BBs have always out-shot any other BBs available. I will test other BBs for velocity today and I’ll test them again in the accuracy test, but in my experience, the Precision Ground Shot are the most accurate.
The correct way to cock and load the 499
I learned in a previous test that cocking the gun before loading increases accuracy. It turns out that’s the way Daisy wants it done! They even put it in the manual. First put the gun on Safe. Next, cock the gun. Third, drop a BB down the muzzle and listen for the click when it hits the magnet. This will be the way my Royal Rangers learn to do it.
Velocity with Precision Ground Shot
Ten Daisy Precision Ground Shot averaged 258 f.p.s. The low was 252 and the high was 260 f.p.s., so a difference of 8 f.p.s. But let’s not make any assumptions just yet.
Next up were 10 Blaster BBs from ASG. They averaged 261 f.p.s., with a spread from 259 to 262 f.p.s. That’s only a difference of 4 f.p.s. Interesting, but no conclusions yet.
Crosman Black Widow
The last BB I tested was the newer Crosman Black Widow that has done so well in recent BB gun tests. They averaged 262 f.p.s. with a low of 261 and a high of 266 f.p.s. So a difference of 5 f.p.s.
What I saw as I was shooting was a gradual increase in vel;ocity. Was the gun breaking in? I believe it was and still is. The only thing to do was to re-test the Daisy precision Ground Shot.
Second test with Daisy Precision Ground Shot
This second time through Daisy Precision Ground Shot averaged 263 f.p.s. The low was 261 and the high was 265 f.p.s. — a difference of just 4 f.p.s.! I believe this does indicate that this 499B is breaking in. Will it ever get to 280 f.p.s.? Who can say? But it’s sure above 240 f.p.s. I therefore think the increase in velocity was intentional. It will sure be interesting to see how accurate this one is!
The 499B has always been extremely easy to cock. I measured this new one with my trigger-pull gauge and it said the gun cocks with 8 lbs. 7 oz. of effort. That’s light!
The trigger-pull measured between 2 pounds and 2 pounds 4 ounces. It’s a two-stage pull that’s not terribly creepy but can be felt all the way through the arc of stage two.
This trigger is lighter than 499 triggers I have measured in the past. As best I can remember, coaches were allowed to get their shooters’ triggers down to 1.5 lbs. but no lighter.
What I see from today’s test is that someone from Daisy has breathed on the internals of the 499B. It ain’t just parts from China that get assembled in Rogers, Arkansas. Someone has listened to the coaches and then done something about it. That’s the stuff, Daisy!
62 thoughts on “Daisy’s 499B target BB gun: Part 2”
Look at the maximum shooting distance to in meters. The new 499 that’s the higher velocity shoots at less maximum distance.
So they didn’t get that right either. Or is it now?
I didn’t look at that one, because it is such a useless number. But it is strange that it is now shorter.
True about that number being useless. I have wondered why they even put that number there.
But yep strange with a shorter distance but higher velocity.
I’ve always figured that the “maximum shooting distance” number was there to remind you that BBs or pellets can go a long way — Know what’s behind your target.
It’s easy for beginners to think of airguns as toys: If it can shoot 150 yards, maybe you need to be careful with it.
In all due respect if you need to be reminded of that you really don’t need to be shooting. And if you don’t know that you should probably get some help learning.
But hey. At least the manufacturers are trying.
I agree that relatively few buyers will be both
(a) ignorant enough to need the information and
(b) careful enough to pay attention to the information.
But the number won’t be zero: Parents buying airguns for 12-year-olds, for example, could find the information useful: “Look, Sally, it says this thing will shoot 150 yards. That means it could go all the way across our back yard, and across the Smiths’ yard and hit the cars going past on Elm Street. So you need to pay attention…”
As you say, at least the manufacturers are trying.
True but how do you trust the info is accurate after the things BB pointed out already about Daisy’s data.
That really is what I was talking about.
I agree that the inconsistent data is embarrassing; Daisy ought to do better, especially when they are tweaking a competition tool like the 499.
The pseudo-precision is also annoying, giving this nominal “maximum shooting distance” to the nearest yard (152 yards vs 177 yards), when I would guess that a realistic shot-to-shot variability would be measured in tens of yards.
That said, this number doesn’t need any great precision: For the kid with the new BB gun, the “pay attention” message is the same whether the nominal distance is given as 130 yards or 200 yards.
Hopefully these kids that get these bb guns have some parents that have a shooting back ground and they can teach them how and why you should or shouldn’t do something.
I share your hope that parents will know enough to teach their kids or will get advice from people who know. But realistically, that won’t always happen.
On the larger issue: All this safety information can seem annoyingly unnecessary if you are an experienced shooter:
“Warning: This is not a toy.”, “Recommended Age”, “Maximum Shooting Distance”, “May be dangerous up to 197 yards”, “Police and others may think this airgun is a firearm.” (all from Daisy’s Red Ryder ad)
On the other hand, isn’t this all information that parents ought to know?
I’m trying to make a case that this annoying information can actually be useful for a subset of buyers.
Yes information is good. But only if it’s the right information. That’s the case I was trying to make.
I agree that only correct information is useful. But we need to ask, how much precision do we need to get “the right” information for a given function.
For example, Daisy reports 240 fps and 280 fps muzzle velocity for the 499. BB rightly wants to check out this difference of 15-20%. And for some purposes we’d want to know about much smaller variations in muzzle velocity: BB is reporting ranges of 4 and 5 fps (2%).
But a variation of 15-20%, or even 20-30%, is irrelevant if the question is “Maximum Shooting Distance” or “May be dangerous at ___ yards”: 150 yards or 200 yards gives the same safety warning for the shooter. And the number is inherently substantially more variable and more difficult to measure.
Different precision can count as “right” or at least “right enough” for different functions.
Now there is a different type of question, which may be what you are thinking about: When you see a very high frequency of errors, even minor errors, you can conclude that this data source is just not trustworthy, and you need to throw away the data regardless of precision.
I don’t think we’re there with Daisy, but I can see that you might reasonably think so.
And how many years have guns been around?
And we are still having this conversation.
I never expected to suffer from “missing out” over a BB gun. Good grief! ; – ) Robert.
I haven’t shot my 499 in a while. Had to get it out and shoot it after BB’s last report on his.
Definitely a nice little relaxing gun to shoot that makes me shake my head in amazement everytime I see the groups it makes.
Wish you had one.
Maybe I will buy a buck. At least that’s close to the 499 I guess. Can you accurize a buck? The lever action sounds interesting. ( Hmmm, That would mean I have have four air rifles…. well, technically three, as I have a double up, and this is how denial starts…. which is not a river in Egypt ). Constant plinking is a draw card! Robert.
From what I have read from your posts you like shooting.
It’s what happens. You will want more and more once you see more things.
And only thing I will stress is no substitutes. Get a 499. Trust me. You will not regret it.
Not for sale in NZ, not even in Australia…. and seems they are out of stock elsewhere. Yes, I do enjoy shooting, and shooting cheap and easy is good but cheap easy AND super accurate is BEST. 499 is my type of rifle imho. Single shot, peep sights, spring power… it’s too cool! Robert.
Maybe one day you will get a 499 some how.
Things have a way of happening.
I am resigned to being without a 499 for the near medium and distant future. But it’s OK as I know other people who seem to enjoy them and that’s good enough for me. : – ) Robert.
You can replace the 105B Buck’s shot tube with a 499B abutment and shot tube assembly. Poor man’s 499. Won’t have the trigger of the 499, but there are some easy changes that can be made to lighten the pull.
You can replace the 105B Buck’s spring and shot tube with a 499B spring, abutment, and shot tube assembly. Poor man’s 499. Won’t have the trigger of the 499, but there are some easy changes that can be made to lighten the pull. The shot tube will extend out the front of the muzzle, though. And if you keep the 105B spring, it’ll be over 400 fps.
Oh you can? a buck is $129 NZD here, but the 499 shot tube thingy…. how do I get that? Must shops only sell the best sellers round these parts. so really special things never hit these fair shores. I bet there is no Daisy New Zealand….. Good to know though, thanks! and a bit sticking out the front is quite normal for rifles! ha ha. Robert.
If you were stateside, a call to Daisy with the part numbers would get the parts, but being in New Zealand could complicate things as I don’t know if Daisy would send parts there or not. If you want to try, I’d be happy to ask next time I talk to them.
I still don’t have the option to edit my comments or delete them or save them anymore in that given time period. That started yesterday.
Okay, something has changed. I will alert IT.
While you are at it, can you see if they can get me notifications by email from the blog?
As I mentioned yesterday, that request is already in.
I cannot edit either.
RR and everyone,
This is affecting readers but not me. I turned it in to IT this morning, after GF1 mentioned it.
You are going to make me dig my 99 out, aren’t you? I am going to have to get me some of them there bbs and test velocity and accuracy and all that stuff. It is a good thing I like shooting these airguns that live here at RRHFWA. 😉
I have finally caught up on my home work. As in work that’s been needing done around the house.
I been rotating through shooting my guns again. Definitely something I enjoy doing that I haven’t done for a good month or so now.
Yahoo back in the (air gun bag) saddle again. 🙂
I’m no software techy but my Apple IPad gets emails whenever a reader responds to my comment, same as before. Hope this continues! Also the edit function is working well, same as before.
In my opinion BB is testing this 499B with different bb’s to perhaps better understand a change in velocity Daisy may have made. I will put my hat on his findings and only shoot the prescribed bb in my 499B. As mentioned before I tried one already shot bb I recovered from the target trap, loaded it and believe it got stuck somewhere in the barrel. Also some of the prescribed new upshot bb’s don’t roll down the barrel as easily as others suggesting that sorting may be helpful to some folks. I can only speculate that shooting out of round bb’s won’t do the barrel any favors.
Whoops, I spoke too soon. The edit function has disappeared. The word upshot is a word spell override, should be unshot.
Can’t find upshot in the text.
3rd line from the bottom of Deck’s comment
Thanks, but I don’t fix comments.
Next to last sentence “upshot bb’s don’t roll- -“
I hope IT gets the edit thing straightened out soon.
I’m surprised I haven’t messed up my comments worse than I already have. I was so happy when they added the edit option back when they did.
Would the rear sight of the 499 fit the rails of the HW30s? Or does it mount as a proprietary peep sight?
I’ll have to take a look at that. It might work.
Seriously thinking 2/10ths of a foot pound is going to make a serious difference?
You know how that goes. It could be the difference from a accurate gun or not. Think about velocity not energy if your target shooting.
Likely the two mods are illegal….don’t care. It’s a well used middle of the night or storing outside practice rifle. 99% of what it sees is down-the-hallway shooting into a really lite/simple back stop.
One wrap of tape at the muzzle to be sure vibration does not let the barrel rotate.
Thin layer of peel-n-stick rubber on the butt for adult sized bony shoulder.
Either one can be peeled off if needed to get back to out the box
Feed it the BB’s it likes best.
This is too weird: I just won a set of Steve Corcoran grips.
What do I do? ( I am not in the Us, don’t have a crosman, make my own grips…)
Lucky you to have such a problem.
So who wants them ??? I would swap them for a 499 barrel.
Maybe RR needs them in his RRHFWA…. ??? One of his orphans may need new furniture.
I don’t need them! They are are nice though… ( look away ! ) If I had them I would have to buy a crosman 24xx or simliar and then go down that rabbit hole. NO !!!!!!!! no no no no no. Nope.
Please do not let me have them. I cannot justify a Co2 gobbling monster.
Take them! Maybe BB needs them. Robert.
What about a 1377 or 1322. And Crosman makes a 1399 stock for them too. And what is nice is when you get one of Crosman steel breech you now have a dovetail for sights. Plus alot of barrels interchange on those guns I mentioned like the Maximus barrels.
I have a 1377 set up that way right now with a dot sight. So now it’s a rifle and I bet it only weighs 4 pounds now if that.
I’ll post a picture tomorrow so you can see it.
Gun fun, I have both a 1377 and a 1322, both with steel breeches and rifle scores and skeleton dyocks. Both using the stock barrels also. Both are really fun little carb ones.
What really irks me about all this great 499 stuff is this:
The closest I can get to one is a RR. and I am told it’s not nearly as good as a 499, so this makes me reticent to buy a RR, so I end up not having either.
This is the perfect air rifle conundrum! *sound of one hand clapping * Robert.
It’s pretty simple. Get the 499 if you are really going to go for it. It’s proven many times over it’s the accurate one.
I think we are now officially talking round in circles! This country has zero 499’s! and none for sale! !!!! Robert.
Well I guess it’s at least a good dream. 😉
BB, would Dust Devils work in the 499? If so, could you test them as well? Thanks.
They will work but they won’t be very accurate.
I would be afraid one of the Dust Devils would get stuck in the barrel. Plus maybe they might mess the accuracy up of your so accurate 499.
The only thing I have put through my 499 is the Avanti precision ground bb’s and that’s all I’m ever going to put in it.
I want my 499 to continue to be accurate for years to come. 🙂
Yeah, I don’t see a reason to do it, other thasn I was asked.
Yep I know what your saying.
And thinking more about it maybe that would be a little test if you do shoot the Dust Devils. You can shoot some of the Avanti precision
shot afterwards and see if your 499’s accuracy does change. If it doesn’t that might show how durable the 499 really is.
And I’m not saying I don’t like the Dust Devils because I do. I just don’t think they are meant for the 499.
Gun fun, I have both a 1377 and a 1322, both with steel breeches and rifle scores and skeleton dyocks. Both using the stock barrels also. Both are really fun little carbines.
Yep I like them done up like yours too. Even with the factory barrels. They are nice shooting little guns.
A couple of years ago. I bought a 499b on the AA Classifieds.
$100.00 delivered and it came with Red Ryder which I gave away.
It must have been an early one as it shoots right at 280fps.
The front sight inserts were missing but Daisy sent me some for free..