Seneca Dragonfly .177.
This report covers:
- Examination
- Read the past reports
- Pumping
- My plan
- Accuracy
- Summary
Just a reminder, there will be no new blog tomorrow as I will be celebrating Thanksgiving. There will be a new blog on Friday.
One good turn deserves another. The Seneca Dragonfly Mark 2 in .22 caliber has proven to be an exemplary multi-pump pneumatic rifle. If you have been reading this blog for several months you know my feelings about it.
Today I begin testing a .177. I won’t put this one through 16 different reports like I did its predecessor, but I will use that report series as my guideline. Hence you may expect the velocity-per-pump-stroke test and the accuracy test with the best number of pump strokes.
Examination
This is the second Dragonfly Mark 2 I have been able to examine closely. I’m pleased to say that the wood looks as even and fine as the other one. The metal finish looks even and nice, as well. All in all I can’t tell them apart, aside from reading the caliber on the receiver.
I have to confess I almost hoped this one would be difficult to pump, so I could see what some of you have talked about. But it isn’t. This one pumps just like the other one. I have to assume the factory has sorted out the pumping problem and resolved the issue.
I had to pump and shoot the rifle to be able to make those statements. I will also tell you now that the trigger on this one is nearly identical to the trigger on the .22. It’s single-stage, light, a bit vague and it went off before I was ready. This is a trigger I need to learn and get used to. Oh, joy!
So I pumped and shot again. I tried the trigger to see if there is a light second stage hesitation that I can feel. So far no joy, but I now know where to expect stage one to fire. It hasn’t taken but a couple shots for me to get back into the swing. I imagine I will have to do that each time I pick up the rifle.
Read the past reports
At this point in the writing I read all the past reports on the .22-caliber Dragonfly Mark 2. Well — I scanned them, at least. I discovered many things I had forgotten, and those things will help me plan for the test of this rifle. However, some of you readers own the .177 and I would enjoy reading your thoughts on pellets, pump strokes and anything else you think I need to know.
Pumping
I reported in the other series that the pump strokes of the .22-caliber rifle were so light that for the first five the pump stroke ended with the pump arm an inch above the rifle. There was no need to close the pump arm all the way to fill the rifle. This .177-caliber Dragonfly is exactly the same in that respect.
My plan
I think the tests that I did with the first Dragonfly were wise and saved me a lot of time. Even though I wrote 16 reports (so far), some of those were showing how to adjust the trigger, so they didn’t count against testing the rifle.
I will start with a single pellet to discover the rifle’s performance before I branch out and test different pellets for accuracy. At this time I’m thinking of starting with a heavier domed pellet, but I will listen to any advice you .177 Dragonfly owners offer.
I think I will pattern the next report after Part 2 of the report on the .22. For example, I saw a 41 f.p.s. INCREASE in velocity over a 10-shot string when I pumped the rifle 5 times per shot. I said then that the rifle might need a break-in. However, when I examined that string today I saw that only the first two shots were slower. But there were velocity changes in the pellets as I tested them over time. By the time I get to the velocity test with this rifle I will have many more than two shots on the clock, but I will still keep an eye on this condition..
Accuracy
I plan to test this rifle with open sights at 10 meters and again at 25 yards. I will use the 10-meter test to also gather the velocity numbers because I have the Labradar chronograph that can record velocity simultaneously while I am shooting for accuracy.
I will forgo the dot sight test and go straight to the scope. I plan to mount the Bug Buster 3-12X32 scope that worked so well on the .22 Dragonfly. It’s perfectly sized for both the overall size and weight of the rifle, plus it also allows the hand to grasp the stock at the pistol grip while pumping the rifle. Because this is a multi-pump you have to consider things beyond just the conventional task of mounting a scope.
Summary
That’s my report for today. You know all about the Dragonfly Mark 2, but this is a report on the .177-caliber version. It’s on the short side, so I’m waiting for you to tell me what I should be looking for.
“I plan to test this rifle with open sights at 10 meters and again at 25 yards.”
B.B.,
You’re a better man than I am; I found the front sight too wide for good shooting. Yet then again, I thought the same with the Crosman 362, which is why I trimmed it down to a tapered post that is .050″ wide at the top; and that works great. But since the Dragonfly Mark2 has the fiber optic front sight, that was not a viable option; hence, I left it alone, and just went with a scope. You’re a target shooter (whereas I’m really not), better with the 6-o’clock hold action, so the open sight tests will work out fine for you; but it will be really interesting to see the accuracy with the scope and to see how it stacks up against the .22 caliber version.
Wishing you a blessed and Happy Thanksgiving! 🙂
dave
Dave,
The front sight is too wide, but when I wear my reading glasses I see it sharply. That’s how I do it.
Happy Thanksgiving.
BB
“…when I wear my reading glasses I see it sharply”
Coolness; Happy Thanksgiving! Enjoy your day off! 😉
Dave,
Happy Thanksgiving to you, too. We have so much to be thankful for! 🙂
BB
“We have so much to be thankful for!”
Amen! 🙂
Dear BB,
Here is a question, since we have two multi-pumps that differ only by the barrel caliber, “does the .177 get to peak power with less pumps than the .22?”
-Mike
Berserkeley Mike,
Can we be certain that the only thing that is changed is the caliber of the barrel, magazine, and probably the size of the bolt?
What if the valve body Volume is different?
The Exhaust Valve diameter or lift is changed?
Or the transfer Port diameter is smaller?
Or even the valve spring(s) rate has been changed?
All those things can be done and it would take a disassembly of a .22 and a .177 to measure and compare; I have found NO engineering drawings On-line.
Maybe B.B. can try to find out from PA.
shootski
shootski,
Unlikely all of those happened as that would increase production costs. We should be able to tell once the shooting starts.
RidgeRunner,
You are likely correct. I was simply offering a few of the possible things that could be different that would potentially effect the performance without most owners of the two rifles having a clue. I didn’t even mention the Striker/Hammer spring rate or length nor the possibility of a change in Mass of same. I could get really down and dirty about changes a manufacturer “could” make but then what would be left for folks to learn about possible modifications!
Happy Thanksgiving R.R.; It snowed last night and more today is expected so the skis are waxes rifle magazines are loaded and the grandsons and son and me are going to sling up ski over to the range to shoot at those 5 hole targets after some laps on the trails.
Praying for all CLEANS!
shootski
shootski,
We do hope you and the “boys” had a wonderful time with the biathlon. We wish you a most Blessed Thanksgiving for you and those you love from RRHFWA.
Berserkeley Mike,
Good one! We shall see.
BB
For anyone like me, the testing distances are :
first 10 metres, then 23 metres,
or first 11 yards, then 25 yards.
(10m=10.94yd, 25yd=22.86m)
——————————-
“… I’m thinking of starting with a heavier domed pellet…” I think I know which one: JSB Exact Beast ! 🙂
Here’s what Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier) said after he used them in a very similar air rifle:
“….10 JSB Beasts shot at 10 meters measures 0.476-inches [12.09mm] between centers…” “…and it’s a group I will take any day…” “…I would… shoot only this pellet.”
I copied’n’pasted the above from the blog about the Diana Stormrider Generation II (/blog/2019/07/diana-stormrider-generation-ii-precharged-pneumatic-air-rifle-part-4/)
Wonder how many strokes of this low effort pumper (Dragonfly Mk2) are needed for best results? 🙂
3hi,
I do not do that meter thingy. Not being a “target shooter” as our host, being an old geezer too set in his ways and never dealing with any of “that” measurement system except millimeters, I shoot at 10, 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards. In truth, there is some merit in using that meter thingy and I cannot wait for when they change over the speed limit signs, but my brain does not work that way and I am too old to bother with changing my way of thinking distances now.
Now, your thinking of comparison of the Dragonfly to the Stormrider performance wise is not too far out there as they are both based on the same air rifle with many common parts, the barrel being one of them.
P.S.: I have never tried out that JSB Beast, but I usually have pretty good results with the H&N Baracuda Match. As for how many pumps, we are about to find out.
Sorry RidgeRunner, my metric versus imperial distances were only meant as an aid for those who, like me, are numerically challenged and in the sense that they struggle to convert from one to the other.
I can just about tell if a number is bigger than another. Sometimes I even get a feeling for the size of that difference. But that’s it. Any more and I need a calculator.
As an example, whenever I am on holiday in another country that uses different money, I do not properly understand how much things cost, 🙂
3hi,
Oh, I am lost without one of those math-doer-thingys. I use one almost every day at work. I think in inches, but everything anymore seems to be metric. Phew! I give thanks for math-doer-thingys.
>>> my metric versus imperial distances were only meant as an aid <<<
Had to smile at this hihihi.
Canada (officially… theoretically???) switched to metric decades ago – without the participation of most of the population. I'm very used to seeing things double-dimensioned 😉 As much as I like the metric system, IMHO it was a stupid thing to do, it wasn't necessary and the repercussions (cost and problems) were huge.
Personally, I've always worked in either (or even both) systems without thinking about it. Mixing imperial decimal, fractional and metric measurements to suit is typical for me. Depends on what I'm doing or what the native units of measure the tool, program or material is based on. I don't think of 1/4 inch thick material as 6.35 mm… it was made as 1/4", so be it! 😉
Suggestion: Don't convert measurements. It's like speaking a different language, you have to think in that language because, during normal conversation there is no time to translate without getting totally lost. (I know – try teaching a technical class in English and French at the same time LOL!)
Cheers!
Hank
Hank
I tried to do something similar when I was tasked with teaching a small group of Thai army guys how to fix an FM radio transceiver. I spoke no Thai and they no English (and I had forgotten any and all of my high school French).
I’m pretty sure I was able to get across how to change the battery packs,, not sure how much more. Metrics never really came into it, luckily.
Hope you,, and everyone here, has a great Thanksgiving.
Ed
BB,
You now have the opportunity to sell me on a P.R.C. airgun as I am looking for a relatively inexpensive and not pellet picky .177. Go for it.
Do enjoy your many Blessings and offer forth you heartfelt Thanks tomorrow. 😉
RR,
Okay — lotsa pellets to be tested. Got it!
Happy Thanksgiving,
BB
BB
Hoping you will be removing its screw and drifting the rear sight off its dovetail rail when you are done with open sight tests. I want to know if this drifting causes unwanted looseness. One reader reported this being a problem. Removing the sight allows more scope mount options.
Thanks and enjoy your Thanksgiving time off.
Deck
Deck,
I have done that already with the other rifle and no looseness.
BB
Thanks
Deck
Deck,
I’ve used epoxy to “shim” loose parts. By cleaning or contaminating the surface I control what gets stuck to what or not. An aluminum foil barrier can be useful in managing to epoxy as well.
I’ve started using UV cured epoxy for a lot of projects where filling or building up a surface is required. It’s no good as an adhesive between to opaque materials (where the UV light can’t reach) but its “instant” cure capabilities has a lot of applications.
Hank
Hank,
Now THAT is a useful tip! Thank you!
BB
Hank
Thank you for lots of tips. Happy Thanksgiving!
Deck
Tom,
Happy Thanksgiving!
Today I am particularly thankful for this test of a .177 Dragonfly Mark 2. As I wrote last week, I will give one of these another try, this time paying for the $10 extra QC go over. I am especially curious about any stickiness or jerkiness at the beginning of the stroke (opening the lever), the end of the open stroke (extending the lever all the way), and at the closing of the lever.
Michael
Michael,
I will look at the opening with a more critical eye, but so far I have seen nothing like that. Are these others who complained airgunners, or is this perhaps their first multi-pump?
BB
Michael & B.B.,
I only had one issue with my Dragonfly Mark2 “sticking” as I pumped it, but that was due to losing a screw from the forearm (which has since been replaced, for free, after a call to PA, which was patched over to Air Venturi; I’m well-pleased with the Customer Service, and I blame myself for not using Blue Loctite….which I have now done on all the screws =>). Now, I mostly shoot this rifle from the bench, and when I go to pump it, I rest the butt on my upper left thigh and slowly extend the forearm up with my right hand till I hear the “hiss” of air entering the chamber. I shoot the gun the way I shoot my muzzle loader – slowly and precisely; I enjoy the relaxed pace. 😉
Oh, and it all works just fine now.
Blessings to you both,
dave
I am with you, the butt needs to braced on something when you pump. So many of the videos I see they are trying to pump while hanging onto the buttstock. That would make the pumping seem hard. If one braces the butt on something and put your hand over the rear sight to brace with while you pump it is much easier.
In my case it stuck at the full open part of the stroke. After about 100 shots it has smoothed out. Did tighten and lock tite like everyone said to do early on. Shoots very good. Been shooting multipumps for a long time. Happy Thanksgiving!
B.B.,
It seems the negative reviews fall into two categories: loose screws and pumping stiffness/jerkiness. To open mine (many months ago — I haven’t recieved my latest order yet) required holding it like a bow and a very hard yanking in a snapping motion, like opening a big sliding barn door for the first time in months. My guess is it took 40 – 50 pounds of effort for that first inch.
The middle of the stroke was effortless until the arm got to a ninety degree angle. It stopped firm right there. To get it to budge and complete the 10 or so more degrees took a hard slap like one uses to get a stiff breakbarrel with a chisel detent broken open.
Closing it took less effort than opening it, but it was jerky throughout and did give some resistance at the closing part. By the way, that resistance at closing was not at all like what one gets with a Benjamin or Sheridan where it is tough, tougher, even more tough — but then snaps shut at the very end. (You know, where the pinched skin happens.)
But I hope to have my second one in my hands in a few days. I should know almost instantly if it is a good one or another lemon. Determining the first one was bad and not a keeper took me, seriously, about 90 seconds. I then gave it two more tries just to see if it would loosen up even a little, but no soap. After that it was back in the box (nice box) and making the call to PA’s customer service dept for a return authorization. :^(
But this one’s going to be a good one! :^)
Michael
Michael, I’, reposting this reply under your name, since I’m not sure how the email notifications thing on this page works (i.e. perhaps notice only went to B.B., but not to you).
Happy Thanksgiving! 🙂
thedavemyster November 24, 2022 at 12:16 am
Michael & B.B.,
I only had one issue with my Dragonfly Mark2 “sticking” as I pumped it, but that was due to losing a screw from the forearm (which has since been replaced, for free, after a call to PA, which was patched over to Air Venturi; I’m well-pleased with the Customer Service, and I blame myself for not using Blue Loctite….which I have now done on all the screws =>). Now, I mostly shoot this rifle from the bench, and when I go to pump it, I rest the butt on my upper left thigh and slowly extend the forearm up with my right hand till I hear the “hiss” of air entering the chamber. I shoot the gun the way I shoot my muzzle loader – slowly and precisely; I enjoy the relaxed pace.
Oh, and it all works just fine now.
Blessings to you both,
dave
Dave,
I just ordered one, with the 10 for $10, so in not too long I’ll see! (Now I have to find my Blue Loctite.)
Michael
Awesome! Please let us know how it turns out. 😉
Just wanted to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving. Especially for B.B. and this blog, and its readership, which have really taught me so much about many topics, not just airguns. Be well.
For pellets, I would suggest Field Target Trophies in different sizes to find the one it likes. All of my airguns have found one they each like, in one size or another.
Roamin,
I just knew someone would recommend FTTs. Only once in dozens of airguns, have they been accurate for me. I will try what I have on hand.
BB
My Gamo CFX was super accurate with H&N FTT in 4.51 mm. It would shoot around corners with any other size FTT.
Happy Thanksgiving to all, let us be thankful for the blessings we receive every day, whether or not you like turkey.
Enable, enable. FM is now can see the possibility of this rifle moving in at some point. Just have to get past some issues, including the “pumping thing.” Never dealt with pumpers, “Bug-a-Salt” excluded.
FM,
You should have a multipump at Casa FM. If you are in no rush, they can be a most relaxing way to shoot as Dave points out. Enable, enable, enable.
Have a most Blessed Thanksgiving!
Appreciate that – a most blessed Day of Giving Thanks to you, yours and all who visit here. Give thanks for what you have every day. Can see a multipumper becoming part of FM’s fitness routine sometime.
Michael
This is also to the folks at PA who perform the $10 test.
PA will be pumping the rifle so many times during the $10 test, any rifle that has pumping issues will be weeded out and not going to you. My second Dragonfly MK2 is a joy to pump and shoot. The last inch or so when closing is deliberately sticky but does not come into play during pumping until after the last pump.
If you decide to get one do tighten any loose screws before all shooting sessions. My muzzle piece quickly gets loose and changes the POI so I choose to remove it. Accuracy may even be better without it. I highly recommend this rifle.
Happy Thanksgiving
Deck
B.B. and all,
Happy Thanksgiving and happy days to all the rest of you!
Going skiing and shooting on fresh snow!
I give thanks for you all and for all my blessings,
shootski
From RidgeRunner’s Home For Wayward Airguns, we wish all of you a most Blessed Thanksgiving!
RR,
I receive your blessings and bless you and your family back.
Happy Thanksgiving,
BB
🙂
I have been digging around a bit to find out just how old this air rifle is.
/blog/2017/07/millita-breakbarrel-rifle-part-3/?swcfpc=1
What I have come up with is FLZ made the last “Original X” in 1929. This is an “Original V”, which I believe they quit making in the mid ’20s. It has a serial number on it of “117665”. I would appreciate it if someone could help me “nail” the year down. It looks like it is close to one hundred years old and is a dream to shoot. I like these old gals.
A Blessed Thanksgiving to all.
RidgeRunner,
This link might give you a little information but mostly give you some more SEARCH terms to try: https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/luftgewehr-flz-fritz-langenhahn-zella-mehlis-orig-42527-c-dd44d008e9
shootski
PS: the youngest got tangled up in a pretty “spectacular single crash” trip to the ER has him in a splint for now with further evaluation next week!
He will survive this crash and hopefully learn from it that there are limits to how fast he can go with a rifle on his back….
shootski
Shootski,
Ouch! Not the best way to finish a skiing expedition. I will pray that he isn’t that injured.
BB
B.B.,
Thank you for taking time out from your day off.
And much more for your prayers.
It happened right in front of me and it looked far more horrific than it turned out to be. Skis are long and tend to torque legs to the breaking point. He is young and strong so the early X-Rays were inconclusive. We had plenty of ice available (RICE) and lots of Wilderness/Remote Medical experience to deal with it until he was at the hospital. I thank the good Lord for all the training and hands on real World skills that i have been blessed with and allowed to use for the benefit of a number of individuals before this very personal instance with a grandson
Thank you again for your prayers,.
shootski
Sorry to hear that – healing prayers coming from down here. A good friend messed up her leg a few years ago skiing; she recovered well but this confirmed FM and Mrs. FM to give up what little skiing we had experienced and leave it at that. More so when you’re no youngster anymore.
Oh no shootski !
When I read about your skiing and shooting trip, I felt envy. Now I’m shocked. That accident sounds seriously painful. What an outcome… 🙁
I wish the casualty a thorough recovery that leaves him as strong and brave as before and wiser too. 🙂
hihihi,
No need for envy…just get out there and Do It or something else you love!
The last time I saw a leg twisted like this was on a Alpine skier before quick release bindings and the use of ski leashes was still required. That skier was older and suffered a Spiral Fracture of the Femur. His season at Alta was over.
I believe my grandson inherited a 180°+ Turn Out Gene through his Father and me and that saved his knee and most of the long bones in his upper and lower legs.
He is brave and will grow smarter with experience and proper training.
shootski
shootski, it must have been some challenge but how did you manage to move your grandson and get him home?
Was it a stretcher sled and helicopter job? 🙂
hihihi,
This was not in the wilderness but at a former Olympic Venue.
We assessed his leg in place after removing his poles, skis, and rifle. Once we had determined that it was not a Compound Fracture (bone breaks through skin) we treated for Shock and then used a number of SAM SPLINTS and roll bandage to stabilize the leg. We used a RESCUE Drag stretcher to get him to the car and put him in the hatchback with the rear seats flat…the BMW GT is great for that. The rest was simply driving him to a first class pediatric ER in SLC. Far faster than waiting for a ground or air ambulance crew, with the chance of questionable skills, especially for a Thanksgiving holiday crew or the local small town ER also with holiday staffing.
As I said earlier all members of my family (adults) are blessed with extensive Wilderness Medical training as well as hands on actual experience. The grandsons are already learning the skills as they become mature enough for the various levels of First Aid and Wilderness RESCUE methods.
No one panicked!
shootski
Thanks shootski for your answer. Impressive first aid and kit! 🙂
shootski,
At the risk of sounding redundant, OUCH!
I too hope that he learns something from this and does not “walk” away because of this. The Lord may have been preparing you over the years for this very incident.
RidgeRunner,
You are so right so often…must be some good observation and lots of hard experience :^)
shootski
shootski,
LOL! I grew up in the “school of hard knocks”. I have also learned over the years that much research and observation can save you a few of those knocks. 😉
It is good to “hear” he is up and about. Hopefully he will be out enjoying the snow again with you soon.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
Hi All,
Had a great Thanksgiving day hope you all did too, somewhat stuffed, our food was great.
Mike
Thank you for all of your good wishes and prayers!
He is up and about with a soft splint/cast and on crutches for now. The pain has mostly subsided and he is still talking with us about what he has learned from the event. Now if he will just internalize 50% of it he will be a better racer for it. His older brother went out with us today for some straight Cross Country Ski altitude training at 7,800′ (2400 meters) for 1:20 hours, 2192 m of climbing and 1151 kcal burned according to my tracker.
It was good to be back on the snow practicing my quickstep and carving turns… something i will forever need to work on for the skinny skis. The Alpine skis always feel like power steering after a session on the Nordic Skis in the steeps.
Thank you all again and hope you have a great weekend…looks like more snow soon!
shootski