Today reader RidgeRunner, tells us more about his Webley Tomahawk breakbarrel air rifle. If you’d like to write a guest post for this blog, please email me at blogger@pyramydair.com.
Take it away, RidgeRunner
RidgeRunner’s Webley/Hatsan Tomahawk: Part Two
by RidgeRunner
Webley Tomahawk.
This report covers:
- Modifications
- Trigger
- Velocities
- What’s next?
- Modifications
In my previous blog about the Webley/Hatsan Tomahawk, I had told you folks that I have owned this particular air rifle for quite a long time. I did shoot it some when I first purchased it way back when, but it has been in the back of my airgun closet for quite some time waiting on me to find my round tuit.
The last time I had her out, I did make a few modifications to her. One thing I had noticed right off the bat was that she was real buzzy. That was not going to do, so I squirted a liberal amount of Tune in a Tube (TIAT) into the spring slot. I may have put a bit too much in as this was the first time I had tried this stuff, but it did quiet the gal down.
Another thing I had done was replace the air stripper on the muzzle, which I myself did not like.
I did not care for this one.
I bought an Hatsan adjustable air stripper and installed it.
This one is adjustable.
I do not know if this one will work better, but we are going to give it a try.
Something else I had done was install a barrel harmonics dampener from Limb Saver on the barrel. I have not idea if it will help, but I thought I would give it a try also. By my way of thinking, it would not hurt anyway.
Will this LimbSaver help?
Trigger
Something else I had done was adjust the trigger until it was a nice, crisp pull. At the time I did not have a trigger gauge of any sort, so I just had to go on how it felt. Although at the time it seemed a little heavy, it had a nice, clean break.
I now have a trigger gauge, of sorts, so I will have to see where she is.
Can you say heavy?
Three pounds seems a little bit heavy to me. I think I can do better than that, although it does break real nice right now. The next time I haul her out to the range I will try to lighten this up a bit without losing the crispness, but not today.
Velocities
The first pellet I tried was the JSB Jumbo RS 13.43-grain pellet.
Shot……….Vel.
1……………747
2………….ERR3
3………….ERR3
4……………723
5………….ERR3
6……………741
7……………738
8……………716
9…………ERR3
10………….729
With this light pellet I was getting an average of 732 f.p.s. which works out to 15.98 foot pounds. The high was 747 f.p.s. and the low was 716 f.p.s. That gave a spread of 31 f.p.s.
You may have noticed a good portion of ERR3 readings. According to the little booklet that came with my chronograph that means the rear screen was not detecting the pellet.
The next pellet I tried was the JSB Jumbo 15.89-grain.
Shot……….Vel.
1……………687
2…………..709
3…………..696
4…………ERR3
5…………ERR3
6…………..694
7…………ERR3
8………….703
9…………ERR3
10……….ERR3
This pellet was giving an average of 698 f.p.s. for an energy of 17.29 foot pounds with a high of 709 f.p.s. and a low of 687 f.p.s. This gave an even larger spread of 22 f.p.s. I still had quite a few ERR3 with this try.
The last pellet I tried was the JSB Jumbo Heavy 18.13-grain.
Shot……….Vel.
1…………..690
2………..ERR3
3………..ERR3
4………..ERR3
5………….683
6……….ERR3
7……….ERR3
8……….ERR3
9……….ERR3
10……….696
11………..696
12……….693
13……….690
14……….696
15……….690
You may have noticed this string was a little longer than the previous two. I was determined to find out what was happening to cause me so many errors. I finally figured out that if I moved the muzzle closer to the chronograph, I quit having the errors. I kept shooting until I did figure this out and had a good number of registered velocities.
This pellet averaged 692 f.p.s. for an energy of 19.28 foot pounds with a high of 696 f.p.s. and a low of 683 f.p.s. This spread was only 13f.p.s.
Something I noticed was my energy was going up as I used heavier pellets in this sproinger. I also noticed the velocity spread was getting tighter. She seemed to like the heavier pellets.
What’s next?
The next time around I will have to see how she likes to group at ten and maybe even twenty-five yards. I will likely forget about the lighter stuff and go straight to the heavies. I will also try out another brand or two I have about. There is a good chance I will see if I can lighten that trigger a bit. I may even see if this lady likes to throw cast bullets (slugs) out there.
RidgeRunner,
You have a lot of variables in that Tomahawk. You going to have to move the Limbsaver up and down the barrel to see if it changes the accuracy. You also will have to adjust that Hatsan air stripper. Also you have yet to determine what pellet is most accurate. This looks like a nice long dance.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
As you have pointed out, I may have to try different “tunes” to see how this “gal” likes to dance. You also failed to mention how she like to be held when dancing. 😉
RidgeRunner,
A firm hold or a light hold while you dance?
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Being she is a metal sproinger, I will need to hold her lightly. She may also need to rest on my hand.
“The first pellet I tried was the JSB Jumbo RS 13.43-grain pellet.”
RidgeRunner,
I hope those do well on the accuracy testing; they are one of my favorite pellets as they have proved to be the best shooters in multiple guns. 🙂
Blessings to you,
dave
Dave,
From what little I have determined so far, she likes the heavier JSBs better.
RidgeRunner, that makes sense due to the power level of the rifle; the guns I have that like them are 5-7 fpe sproingers. 😉
I have that air stripper on my Walther LGV Master and like it. I order the Hatsan stripper at the same time as the rifle and installed it before ever shooting it and guessed at the gap off the muzzle. It shot so well I never adjusted it.
side bar
My DAR Gen 3 .22 purchased February 2023 , initially seeped a little assembly lube at the aft side of the gauge block but held air and I have been very happy with the rifle. A month ago the Foster valve failed when bleeding off after a charge. I replaced the o-ring using the JTS video as a guide, fixed that leak but immediately had a leak at the gauge block. Apparently here is no customer support with DAR , there once was back when I bought my GEN 2 as they fixed a leaking air tube under warranty. I have found scratches in two of the o-ring grooves on the side of the leak in the regulator/gauge block assembly, tried to polish them out and have tried so many different makes,material and sizes of o-rings that I have lost count. I just sent yet another email to DAR customer “service”, this time about selling me a whole air tube assembly, we shall see. I like the rifle too much to relegate to parts gun status.
ssc,
One of my fears with owning the “Wang Po Industries” airguns has been customer support or lack thereof. Those that have established such through various dealers and distributors I am certain will do a much better job of such, but as for me there are just too many very nice “old gals” out there to mess with the “new” stuff coming out of the Pacific rim.
You might try contacting that airgun company in the SW USA. If I am not mistaken, they may handle that brand and be able to help you some.
RR,
Adjusting the Hatsan Air Stripper properly, might take a life time and then each time you use a different pellet(at least a pellet that has a different length), you need to start over….
-Yogi
Yogi,
It could take quite a bit, yes. I do think that the position of the LimbSaver may likely have more of an affect than the gap of the air stripper though. A good size gap will be beneficial to strip away any turbulence from behind the pellet whereas a smaller gap may not have enough of a gap to do such. I will have to play with it some.
Though it will likely help some, I think the air stripper would have more of an effect on PCPs. If I am not mistaken, a pellet is “coasting” along most of the length of a sproinger barrel, whereas with a PCP there is a more positive air pressure behind the pellet prior to exiting the barrel.
The function of a silencer is to divert and allow for the expansion of the propelling gas behind the projectile prior to exiting the “muzzle”. Barrel shrouds also perform this same function to an extent.
RidgeRunner,
Great Labor Day guest blog!
The continuing story of the Tomahawk war dance is totally fun to read…hope it stays FUN for you too!
Your blog opens so many possible topics for debate!
Thank you,
shootski
shootski,
I have enjoyed messing around with this “old gal” after having her hid away for so long.
If it ain’t fun, I ain’t gonna do it.
Yogi
You have shot lots of springers. Have you ever tested a barrel harmonics adjustment device like Limbsaver?
Deck
Deck,
Not the Limbsaver per sei, but similar devices. The Hatsan Air Stripper is supposed to start testing at one pellet’s length and then each mm longer thereafter. Each time with different pellets….
-Y
Yogi
Oh my. Rather daunting test of patience. I’m thinking RidgeRunner ain’t gonna do that but he may be unpredictable.
Thanks,
Deck
Thanks for the interesting report. I am curious about any effects that the Limbsaver harmonics dampener might have. Same for the Hatsan adjustable air stripper. The velocities seem reasonable to me. So, I doubt that you put too much TIAT in the rifle. But I do not know what the specified velocity/energy level is supposed to be in order to have a reference point. Looking forward to the next report.
Elmer,
I suspect that the position of the LimbSaver will have a more pronounced effect than the adjustment of the air stripper. The way I hold this “gal” while we dance will likely also have an effect on how well she does.
I have made a habit out of copying my comments to clipboard before clicking on the “post comment” button. Today I would have lost the above comment if I hadn’t done that. It sometimes pays dividends to form good habits. 🙂
Elmer,
I have lost many a considerable comment by not doing such. This is a habit all should do. shootski has suggested this many times in the past.
I love WordPress, I love WordPress, I love WordPress, …
Yup, FIRST RULE of computing:
If you like what you have done and don’t want to do it again then SAVE IT!
🙂
So how does “she” like to be held for the dancing, RR? Was going to dance with the HW90 this weekend and try the hold-tight approach which believe had been suggested by one of our commenters for a gas springer – maybe shootski – in an earlier blog post, but the thunder and rain cancelled that dance.
FM,
So far I have been holding her very lightly and just letting her lay on my bags. She has not been dancing too badly, but I do have to try other ways of holding her.
It was Yogi and shootski that recommended holding tight when dancing with a gas sproing. I may have to try dancing with that Gamo one more time. I do like that trigger now, but I do not have a fondness for that magazine setup she has and do not care for that face slap she likes to give me, so she will still be looking for a new home when all is said and done.
RidgeRunner
You can get rid of face slap by cutting some spring coils. Just a reminder since you know that already.
Your fpe is in line with a Hatsun 95 so the TIAT you applied back when seems okay.
I hope I get surprised by results when moving the Limbsaver. I have a couple which I have tried on some air rifles trying for improved harmonics/accuracy. The only significant help has been with my Izzy 61. I spliced one side for ease of installment and put both on.
Deck
Deck,
The face slap comes from the lightness of the Gamos and the sudden slamming of the gas spring. I cannot say I have experienced such with metal coil springs.
RR
My bad. I’m too intent on you swapping out the gas for a steel spring.
Deck
Deck,
That is OK. You are not the only one. 😉
RR,
You are testing out things that I have wanted to try myself, including the barrel damper and the air stripper. I’m interested in the effects of both.
In noodling over how to use the barrel damper, I remembered a lesson learned on this blog, I don’t remember when:
The best way to use a barrel damper would be to adjust it so the pellet leaves the muzzle while the barrel is stationary, at the end of travel, at the moment the barrel end is changing direction.
What kind of feedback during the adjustment process will show us that we are approaching that moment? Would it be that as we move the weight, say forward, there would be places along the barrel where the weight can be moved a greater distance before it causes the POI to shift? Hmm!
Good luck in testing,
Will
Will S.
I have no idea. The only thing I can hope for is to move it forward and backward and see which seems best. The LimbSaver is not really a weight as it is a type of dense foam. I would assume it acts much as one on a compound or crossbow, reducing its vibration.
Will
Really good questions. Also hoping someone with Limbsaver experience will comment. Might help RidgeRunner save time experimenting with placement.
Deck
First – happy Labor Day to all and to all a great BBQ. Second, RR when I get that many errors in my chrony, I will stick a wood dowel in my barrel and make sure I’m lined up with the center of the chronometer’s electric eyes. Also, I absolutely have to use the diffuser screens. Hope this helps you.
Fred formerly of the Demokratik Peeples Republik of NJ now happily in GA
Fred DPRoNJ,
” ” DITTOS!
BACK when i used Optical Chronographs i did much the same.
Doppler Chronographs…can do it and more in the dark!
;^)
shootski
B.B. and Readership,
De-resonators work up to a point but only if the barrel actually resonates to begin with.
Before you install a de-resonator or a Barrel Tunner it behooves you to INDEX the barrel to the vertical (if possible) as Vana2 aka: Hank has covered a number of times.
There is a great deal of misinformation on barrel resonance on the internet so due diligence is required.
Some swear by one or the other and some swear AT one or the other. I have even seen folks who cover the entire barrel in the things….
If you shoot that well that you can notice and REPLICATE the conditions for ONE (1) projectile then you should give them a try; I won’t be joining you since i’m not able to do that.
As far as Air Strippers they come and go on a regular trending basis…BACK AGAIN i see :^)
The laws of physics {Newton’s Second Law of Motion} says they can’t possibly work since the Elvis projectile has left the building before the air stripper can ask for an autograph! It is a simple case of inertia, acceleration ( both positive and negative) effected by the MASS of the objects.
Want to understand or brush up on your your High School Physics: https://study.com/learn/lesson/newton's-second-law-of-motion-equation-examples.html#:~:text=The formula for calculating acceleration,the mass of the object.
shootski